Thomas Charles IV: The Victory of Humility | Behold Your God Podcast

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Welcome back to another episode of the Behold Your God podcast. I'm Matthew Robinson, director of Media Grazie, and I'm here again with Dr.

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John Snyder, pastor of Christ Church New Albany and author and host of the Behold Your God study series from Media Grazie.

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This is the fourth episode in a four -episode series from Thomas Charles, where he's looked at the subjects of pride and humility, and this would be the second episode where we've considered what he has to say in a little essay on humility.

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If you haven't heard the previous episodes, you can find those on our blog at mediagrazie .org or themeansofgrace .org.

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So we encourage you to go back and listen to those and get a run and go for us as we're about to jump right into the third point.

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This is Thomas Charles' third point in his essay on humility, and that is that pride and humility show themselves differently in their outward conduct.

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And there's a quote here directly from his essay. This shall be instanced only in one particular.

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Pride shows itself by a certain irreverent self -confidence boldness in approaching

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God and also in the outward demeanor toward man. Humility, on the contrary, shows godly fear and reverence toward the

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Almighty and due deference and respect toward men. So humility is seen in the saints and angels in heaven right now in the way that they are covering their face before the

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Holy God. And that ought to be reflected in the Christian as we approach God on earth. He continues here,

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If these be the dispositions and if this be the conduct of the holy inhabitants of heaven, it is evident that those who are vessels of mercy in the

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Lord's hands preparing for the same place must have something of the same spirit in them.

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I think that's very helpful because we tend to think of humility as linked with sinfulness because we're sinners and we struggle with pride.

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So we think humility is a thing that sinners need to constantly be focusing on.

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And the reason we should be humble is because we're so sinful. Andrew Murray's little book on humility, kind of a classic for many years.

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In his opening chapter, he has some things to say that are very, I think, that are very helpful to help us have a healthy humility.

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He says that while the sinfulness of humanity ought to humble us, it is not the only thing that humility flows from.

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And it really shouldn't be the primary thing. He mentions two other motivators to humility. One is the creature -creator relationship that you just read about.

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The holy angels have no shame of sin to be humble over. But they realize that there's an infinite chasm between them and the uncreated being.

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And realizing that much more clearly than we do, they cover their faces. The saints in heaven now, the church victorious and triumphant is clean and holy.

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No more shame, no more sin between them and their Lord, no more cold heart, no more confession.

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And yet, they are there before Him standing in awe of Him and humility is perfected in them.

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It's not because of their sinfulness. It's because they see Him as the infinite creator and there's a gap.

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Murray also mentions that there is the humbling impact of grace, the kindness of God, that love makes us glad to bring ourselves down to where we ought to be.

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So again, we have a sense of our sin humbles us.

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But even more than that, that fundamental awareness that there is a creator and we are the created, constantly dependent upon Him and He has been kind to us.

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All three of those together really coming together in the life of a believer to produce a healthy, balanced humility.

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Yeah. Well, sadly, he has to warn us that even our involvement in religion can often lead to a creeping in of pride.

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He writes, By frequent free access to God in Christ, this holy reverence is in danger of wearing off and spiritual pride will creep in secretly unless our hearts be as it were in our hands and our eyes be continually upon them watching all their motions.

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This may be and is often the case with the true Christian himself, but this never fails to be the case with those who have the scheme of the gospel in their heads unaccompanied with corresponding impressions on their heart.

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So head knowledge without the experience of these realities leads a man to be proud.

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And Paul warns us about this in the scriptures that pride puffs up. And the cure to that is not, you know, in a silly way, you know, make me dumber and dumber for Jesus' sake.

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You know, the dumber I am, the less I study, the more humble I be. That certainly isn't the case.

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But that growing knowledge would be accompanied by a growing love for God and a growing awareness and application of those things to our lives.

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You know, he mentions that we are commanded to address God as our Father, but to keep us from any kind of pride in that, we are reminded that he is our

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Father who is in heaven. And he says this, he is above all commanding reverence and humility, fear and obedience from the entire or whole universe.

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Now, he points out one way that a lack of humility shows itself in how we treat others.

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And he mentions three different categories of relationships. Those that are above us, so we are in a sense inferior to them, you know, in position.

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Those that are beneath us, so we are superior in our position. Or those who are our equal in position.

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So you think of a man going to work or a lady going to work or, you know, a young person going to school.

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We have people who we feel like, you know, look, we're equals or you are above me in this position or you are beneath me.

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And he mentions with the way pride shows up. He says this, when a man is proud, he is a stubborn inferior.

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Okay, so I'm beneath you, but I am like a stubborn mule. I'm digging my heels in every time the boss asked me to do something.

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I got to do it, but I don't have to do it with a good attitude. You know, that's a proud man. I am a haughty superior.

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The way I speak to those people that are beneath me reveals, even though I might say, well,

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I have a right to treat them this way because I'm their boss. Well, it really is an expression of pride.

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And then with equals, you're very self -willed, you know, constantly focused on your rights.

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Because, you know, you want to say to a person, hey, we're equals, but you're not above me. So why do you treat me this way?

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And oftentimes I think that it's with equals that we find the struggle, you know. So in a spiritual sense, we may not have any problem being very humble and, you know, generous spirited toward a

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Christian that is obviously just so far ahead of us. You know, I think, you know, some of our favorite preachers, you know, we would never be tempted to speak to them in an arrogant way.

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I mean, that just doesn't tempt us. And somebody maybe that's a baby Christian, you know, and we know that they're a baby

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Christian and in the Christian life, we're ahead of them. We're not tempted to be harsh with them. But people that are, you know, kind of where we're at, if we are afraid that they think they're a few steps ahead of us, you know, you can feel pride.

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Say to you, don't you let them think that, you know. So three different categories, he says, that pride will show up in the way we relate.

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Charles asked the Christian, did Christ humble himself to make us proud? And that's a stinging question.

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He goes on, in everything, in every situation and relationship, our behavior ought to be that of humble disciples of a humble master.

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He goes on then to give one great expression of this, and that's the way we talk.

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And then, you know, in our podcast, I do most of the talking. So I feel like maybe I should confess this.

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The proud, he says, tend to be swift to speak, slow to listen. And he says it's because they kind of feel that everyone would like to know what they think.

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A proud person tends to be very dogmatic. So not only are they quick to speak, but when it comes to areas of opinion, they're very dogmatic, and they expect that their opinion would be immediately received without question because it's their opinion.

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And, you know, we may not do this again in certain settings, but a good test would be, you know, home life, you know, with my wife, with my kids.

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Do I just come into the room and say, look, this is my opinion on the situation. That ends the conversation.

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And I expect everyone to toe the line because I'm who I am, you know. And sometimes

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I do that. You know, I think, look, it's just a shortcut. Let me just do it this way. And you have to look at the heart and say,

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OK, as a dad or as a husband, I do have the responsibility of having the final say, but am

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I to be proud? Like he said, did Christ die to make John an arrogant dad, an arrogant husband, always wanting to be the one that comes in and says, this is my opinion.

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And since I told you it's my opinion, I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees that it's the right opinion, you know.

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And then you can also test yourself. Do you get offended when people question you? And that may not happen in some settings, but in other settings where you feel like, hey, in this setting, you shouldn't be questioning me.

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Do you feel it rise up? You know, it's an expression of pride. He goes on to say that the proud feel that any attention paid to their words is simply what's due to their words because it's their words, you know, so a good area to guard ourselves.

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And whoever doesn't listen must be a foolish person because my words on the subject are the words.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Thomas Charles, at this point in the letter, gets help from another minister.

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So this is a man who lived the generation before him, the Puritan Richard Baxter of Kidderminster.

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And he quotes from a book called The Saints Everlasting Rest. So let me read a quote from that.

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You'll notice the age of the English changes in this quote. Yes, yes.

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So Thomas Charles, quoting Richard Baxter, asks, Art thou a man of worth in thine own eyes and very tender of thy esteem with others?

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So what does he mean, tender of the esteem with others? Do you care a lot? Does it really bother you how people look at you?

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And do you need everybody to have a really high opinion of you? Art thou one that much valuest the applause of the people?

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Feelest thy heart tickled with delight when thou hearest of thy great esteem among them?

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And much dejected when thou hearest men slight thee? Dost thou love those best who most highly honor thee?

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And doth thy heart bear a grudge at those who thou thinkest to undervalue thee?

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And entertain mean thoughts of thee, though they be otherwise men of godliness and honesty?

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And mean, they are just being the old word for low or common thoughts of you. They don't think as highly of you as you think that you should be thought of.

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And then Baxter asks another question. Art thou unacquainted with the deceitfulness and wickedness of thy heart?

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Or knowest thyself to be vile only by reading and by hearsay, and not by experience and feeling of thy vileness?

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There's a cutting question. Christians are quick to say, now we're all sinners.

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And Christians with more careful theology are quick to say, look, I'm not just a sinner.

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I'm totally, every part of me is depraved. But do we know that in our heads?

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Or have we some experience and feeling of the vileness that is ours apart from Christ?

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Yeah, a good test for ourselves is, if you're willing to say that you're a sinner, and that all of you has been influenced by sin, if someone points out one particular sin, do you like flame on and say,

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I'm a sinner, but I'm not that. Like, well, but you said you were a sinner. You know, it's just, it's easy to have what

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Edward Payson called an evangelical tongue. And still keep a proud heart.

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And that over and over, you know, Thomas Charles points out that pride will live on anything you will give it, even on good doctrine.

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He goes on to ask a couple of questions. And he says, you know, when you look at someone else doing something, so whether it's at work, whether it's at church, or whether, you know, even it's a parent, a mom watching another mom handle situations, do you secretly think within your soul,

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I could do it better than that. I'd be more careful than them. I'd be more diligent than them. I, you know,

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I would be quicker to respond or I would have been wiser and waited. And it's just there are a thousand ways for pride to rise up and whisper into your ear as you watch your friend that you certainly could have done it better.

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And then he goes on to point out, well, what about when people fail? Again, seeing a person at work not do what they said they were going to do or, you know, or fail to do it.

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Seeing a parent struggling or failing. Seeing another Christian failing in an area that you feel you're pretty strong in.

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Or seeing another church failing, especially if you go to a church that seems to be doing well in that area.

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And he points out that pride is expressed when we find this kind of secret satisfaction.

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When we see someone else failing in the same line of work that we're in or the same kind of denomination or church, because it makes our performance look even better, you know.

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And nobody talks like this. You know, I mean, we've been a part of the same church for a long time.

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And I don't think either of us have ever heard someone say, you know, I am so glad that the church down the street blew it on that last issue because that just makes us look really great.

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I mean, no one would talk that way. But there is a subtle, constant whisper from the enemy that our hearts find so tantalizing that you know what, they blew it because they're not as careful as you.

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And that really does show that you knew what you were talking about. And that's the kind of thing that from love to Christ, we must put to death.

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Sadly, sometimes even the most careful churches are those who fall shockingly.

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And it's part of the way that the Lord, I think, humbles us. Shows that there's no hope in that alone.

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Well, after a long list of searching questions, Richard Baxter comes to this very shocking conclusion.

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He says, essentially, if you have to answer yes to these questions, then beyond a doubt, you are a proud person.

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Pride has seized your heart. There is too much of hell abiding in you for you to have any acquaintance with heaven.

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Your soul is too much like the devil for you to have any familiarity with God. That's quite a statement.

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And, you know, I think if we take Baxter's words seriously and don't brush it off, which would be a wrong thing to do.

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Just say, well, that's a guy from 400 years ago. And I think he was grumpy. You know, he probably was suffering from some terrible disease.

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So that's why he writes this way. We don't want to brush off his words because Baxter ought to be taken seriously here.

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But nor do we want to look at that and just kind of throw our hands up and say, well, then I'm not a Christian and I might as well just throw, you know, the towel in and just kind of lay down in a paralyzing despair.

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So we want to take that and look at, you know, biblically, get a balance on that statement.

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And I think the balance would come here. That if you see evidences of that type of pride in you, and you're okay for that to remain there as the habitual characterizing quality of your life, then you are not a

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Christian because Christ is not okay with that. And our

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Father in heaven does lovingly discipline us when he sees that. And so if it's like you're okay with that, then you don't have the new nature.

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And God the Father seems to be okay with that, then you're probably not his kid because he would have disciplined you.

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But if you see those things and the result is a really, you know, eventually a brokenheartedness that pleads with God for all the strength you'll need today to put that to death today and every day that follows, then you wouldn't want to take his statement and say, well, but I see some of that in me, so I must not be a

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Christian. No, because the Christian sees it and there's a very different response. After the searching section, he does end with some helpful cautions to those whose position exposes them to pride.

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So what are some examples of people whose position would expose them to pride? I think of, if we think of the business world, men that have moved up, who have found some success and people have recognized, hey, this guy's really good at what he does, so you've been appropriately promoted.

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You know, in church, a person in a position of leadership, even a young believer that has maybe unwisely been just, you know, people have lavished praises on them and they've kind of begun to believe they're advertising, you know.

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But, you know, even, again, even in a family, a mom who's been given a position of real responsibility over the kids can become proud.

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I mean, you get used to just coming into the room and there's little ones and you got the answers to every problem and you're the authority in that situation and it just kind of, it kind of soaks in.

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The problem is everybody's not doing what I'm saying. Yeah. Sometimes that's legitimate, but that's also pretty intoxicating.

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Yeah, and so that can become a thing where the enemy takes a legitimate position and there is danger attached.

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I guess we could simplify it by saying this. When there's a position of leadership or a recognition of gifts in what you're doing and that's a pretty common thing that you're experiencing, you must guard yourself and it's not just words.

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We know, you know, it's like every month we hear another sad story of a person that you may have looked up to personally or on the big scene of Christianity, someone that you read their book and, you know, and you hear the sad report that they seem to have fallen prey.

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And it is such an important thing that we would look in the mirror and say to God, do not let me, by a careless indulgence of pride, drift from the one safety, you know, this shield, our

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God. Now, he gives some advice for that. Let me read you a little paragraph he writes. He says this, It is not easy to have the preeminence and at the same time not to be like Diotrephes.

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Now, Matt, who's Diotrephes? Diotrephes has the honor of being mentioned in 3 John forever.

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I wrote something to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say.

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So, there's a man in the church who's been promoted, who's recognized as having some preeminence in some way.

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Maybe he's very intelligent, maybe he's, you know, very sacrificial. But when

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John writes, he's a stumbling block because he loves to be first.

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So, Charles writes again, It is not easy to have the preeminence and at the same time not to be like Diotrephes, who loved to have it among his brethren.

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And he's going to give some great advice here. It is right and proper that they should have the preeminence, whose qualifications entitle them to it.

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But for them to love to have it is sinful and abominable in the sight of a jealous

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God. However justly they may be exalted and highly esteemed, yet what they should love is to be the servants of all, because they are better qualified to minister than those who have not their gifts.

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So, just such a, you know, just a clear help. It is right for certain people at certain times and certain positions to be exalted.

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That's not wrong. God does that. Men rightfully do that to each other.

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But don't love that. Love the opportunity that an exalted position gives you to serve more effectively with the gifts that God has given you and may not have given to the other people around you.

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Yeah, a couple of observations just on that paragraph. The problem we see in other places in the

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Scripture is not money. The Lord may choose to give you money. It's the love of that money that is the sin.

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And so the Lord may trust you with certain giftings and He may trust you with an office where you exercise those giftings.

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But do you love it? And not because you get to serve, but because, well, it's about time everybody recognized that they need to do what

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I tell them to do. And sadly, one of the godliest men in the Bible gives us a really harrowing example of pride.

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Charles uses the example of Moses who was careless at a very key moment when he says, and must we fetch water out of this rock?

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He uses we in reference to he and God providing for the people. And the punishment that he receives for that, for failing to uphold the honor of God in that position that he was entrusted with, for clouding the sight of God's glory by his pride, it really should terrify us.

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He was not allowed to finish. He was not allowed to go into the promised land. A positive example he gives is a temptation to pride which was resisted by Barnabas and Paul.

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You remember they were traveling together and preaching and at Lystra in particular.

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As they preached, the Bible says that God was accompanying their words and verifying what they were saying by unusual miracles.

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And the people of the city came together being good pagans. They said, these are not men, these are gods.

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And so Paul and Barnabas hearing that, what a drug to a man that's a proud man.

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Okay, we're not gods, but we are indispensable. Well, we're not gods, but we're kind of close to gods.

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We're the representative of God. We're that kind of guy. So instead they tear their clothes and they,

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God forbid, you know, that you would, do not dishonor God, do not say those things.

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You know, eventually the people are turned against them. But wonderful picture of men who resist a temptation to let people think, even let them think, you know, we didn't say we're gods, you said we're gods.

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Even to let that kind of go unquestioned because they want to hold

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God's honor high. One of the things that we love about going to conferences is being able to interact with people who have gone through the studies that we produce or seen the films that we make and hearing feedback from them about how those projects have impacted their families, their small groups, and their churches.

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Eventually we started asking them if we could record their stories so that we could share those with you.

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Nolan and Melissa are from Mississippi, and their church went through Behold Your God, Rethinking God Biblically.

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I mean, we took, we were fortunate enough to take some families through it with us along that journey.

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And like we had talked about earlier, it is an investment of time. And it was a 12 -week study, but to watch not only other families, how it just transformed other families and watched out, watched how

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God through the Spirit just transformed and knocked down these idols that they had built up in their life.

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And the God that they thought they worshipped of the Bible was different once they came out of this study.

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They found themselves worshipping the one true God. And just the theology and the doctrine and watching it change these people's lives was something

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I don't think we'll ever forget. Then to see them use it with their children and then them loan it out to other people and how it multiplied, people being blessed through it, it was just amazing.

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Well, finishing up the essay on humility from Thomas Charles, he says to conclude,

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