TLP 340: Good Pictures, Bad Pictures | Kristen Jenson interview, Part 2

Pornography as a Parenting Issue

Well, pornography is a big, ugly topic to many people. We feel like we're going to just open our kids' brain and pour a bunch of dark tar into it, right?

Parents, where we use God's Word to become intentional, premeditated parents. Here's your host, A .M.

Brewster. On our last episode, I started an interview with Kristen Jensen, the author of the award-winning Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, Porn Proofing Today's Young Kids, and Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, Jr., A Simple Plan to Protect Young Minds.

We talked about so much, including the dangers of pornography, the ages children will be exposed to pornography, the growing problem of child-on-child abuse, and an overview of Good Pictures, Bad Pictures.

Today we pick up the conversation talking about how young is too young to talk to your kids about pornography, as well as how to introduce such potentially awkward subjects as porn and sexuality. I know you'll learn a lot from part two of my interview with Kristen Jensen, an active member of Safeguard Alliance and Protect Young Minds.

I'm reminded of something my dad did when I was younger. He said to me, Aaron, if you ever want to play with fire, just let me know and we'll do it together. You know, it was one of those things where my dad, knowing the pyromaniac that he was, knowing that I would probably be tempted with a similar thing, he wanted to create a safe environment for us to be able to interact with that thing that could, in fact, be very dangerous.

Now, obviously, we're not wanting to interact with our children when it comes to pornography, but this is the same idea. My dad didn't want me going out with some kid who had a big thing of gasoline and a lighter to experience what it was like to play with fire.

He wanted to be able to teach me how to interact with it in a safe way, and that's exactly what we want to do with our kids. We need to prepare them because if we don't, someone else is going to do it.

So true. So true. So let me ask you, what do you think is the best age to begin talking to a child about pornography?

When to Begin Talking to Children About Pornography

Well, there's no one specific age. It's when your child has any access to the internet. When you think about it, two-year-olds that hold a phone or three-year-olds that are on an iPad, it's like preparing kids.

Once they can walk, right, you teach them, don't run out into the street. We have to teach kids about being on the superhighway of the internet, and we have really let kids get on the internet with so little restriction, I mean, taken as a whole, and we need to teach kids, bare minimum, what to do when they see pornography.

It's just everywhere, and we owe it to them. No child deserves to face the porn industry alone. Oh, yeah, because they'll be overwhelmed. And they don't do very well. Yeah. So I love what your dad did.

That's awesome. Although I have gotten people saying, yeah, somebody suggested that they sit down with their kids and show them pornography so they know what it is.

No, probably not a good idea. No, no, no. No, no, no. That's not the point. Don't do that.

I do not. I do not recommend doing that. But the best age is when they have any access to the internet, and you can begin to warn them. And that's why I wrote Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, Jr., because parents actually started asking me for a book for younger children, to just begin that conversation.

And when you begin it at a young age, it's not uncomfortable. Kids just take it as normal. Yes, they do. We might be freaking out inside, but for them, it's just like, oh, just another thing that my parent is teaching me about how to grow up in this world.

That's not strange for them. Yeah, that's fantastic.

Why Children Need Protection from Pornography Everywhere

Yeah. Man, you don't want to show your kids pornography, but you don't even have to. It's there. I mean, you're watching the Super Bowl with your kid. They're going to see soft core pornography during the halftime show, unfortunately, unless you decide to change the channel or send them out of the room.

My kids and I, we watch different shows, and I really like VidAngel. I like the control that we have to edit out certain scenes and whatnot, but stuff still sneaks through, and you're like, whoa, where'd that come from?

We're watching this show, and it's supposed to be censored, but they still see something that you wish they hadn't seen, and you don't want to add to that and make it worse. But you mentioned the Jr. book being for younger kids.

How is the Jr. book different than the other Good Pictures, Bad Pictures? How is it for younger children?

How Good Pictures, Bad Pictures Jr. Teaches a Simple Plan

So Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, Jr. is very, very simple. It has really fun, comfortable illustrations. We even have hidden cameras all the way throughout so they can look for them, and kids love that.

But it provides, really in a very simplified form, the same thing that the other book does, and that is a simple, age-appropriate definition of bad pictures. We don't say pornography a lot in that book.

We just let the parent, if the parent wants to define it as pornography, they can do that. Then we warn them that it can be like picture poison, and use that analogy because you always teach your kids, don't drink that stuff underneath the sink, you know.

So we want to warn them that it's kind of like picture poison and what to do when they see it. But one of the things I love that we included in this book is to reduce the shame. So we say, even if you've seen a bad picture, that doesn't make you a bad kid.

Here's something good you can do when you see a bad picture. And then we give them the plan. So we have the Can Do plan for the older kids. This one is a very simple plan, turn, run, and tell. Also in the back of the book, in the parent notes, there's also a place where we describe how to teach children to forget, and I'm putting that in air quotes, forget an image.

And that's really important for kids to understand these days, how they can minimize the impact of some of the things that they are going to be exposed to, that they didn't choose to be exposed to, but someone put something in their face, or they just happened upon something pop up, you know, on their computer.

So very important that kids learn from a very young age what it is, why it's harmful, and what to do when they see it. So a definition, a warning, and a plan. This is basic. This is the bare minimum that kids need who, you know, are growing up in a digital age.

Talking About Pornography Without Talking About Sex Too Soon

Yeah, it is. It is bare minimum, and they really need so much more. So oftentimes we as parents, I think we come to this discussion and we're thinking about pornography, and we're thinking about sexuality, and we're thinking, I haven't introduced sexuality to my child.

We haven't talked about this yet, which is a different discussion entirely. You know, we have a lot of episodes that deal with that. But I think one of the things that Kristen does really well in these books is that she handles the discussion about good pictures and bad pictures, pornography, picture poison.

She does all of that without actually ever discussing sex or sexuality. She even has a statement in the back for the parents about that. I'm doing this on purpose, which so if you've had the conversation with your children about sexuality, you can work those topics in.

And if you haven't, you're not going to find yourself awkwardly sitting there trying to juggle this topic, having not been prepared.

Yeah, I wanted to make sure that parents felt comfortable reading this book to a child, even before they've started conversations about sexuality and sexual intimacy. But I will say, I highly recommend that those conversations start even earlier than you might feel comfortable, because they're getting these cues from their environment.

Yes, they are. Go to the store, go to the mall, go wherever, and they're getting cues. And parents think, oh, it just went right over their head. It doesn't. No, it doesn't. It doesn't. And, you know, maybe some do, but some are going to hit the mark.

And I have, for example, I did a study and we interviewed 10 self-described porn addicts. And two were women and eight were men. Now, a few of these men were at Bible college. They wanted to be youth pastors and they really had issues with pornography, but they didn't want, they wanted to be able to help other kids, right?

So interviewed them, the one thing they had in common was that their parents had never talked to them about sex in any meaningful way at all. And so it's easy today, you know, if you don't want to, especially if your parents are like super embarrassed.

It's easy to find pornography and there's your sex ed instead of your parents. As parents, I believe it's so important, not only just to teach the mechanics, but to teach the values you have and why pornography is the opposite of ideally, you know, sexual intimacy and how it destroys sexual intimacy.

And as they grow up, if we can delineate that, they're going to be more armed with better arguments against pornography. So we have a blog post for Valentine's Day that talks about porn versus love. And we have a chart that makes it really easy for you to explain how pornography, the sex in porn is completely opposite to healthy sex and the way God wanted sex to be.

Yes. And these conversations are so important. They have to be had. And I think hopefully we're moving out of that, that cultural mindset, especially within religious circles where people are afraid to talk to their kids about sex.

Hopefully they're realizing how beautiful and wonderful it is. And it's something that we should be discussing with our kids, just like we should be discussing everything else in the scriptures. It's really important.

I'm so glad that you took the time to make that point.

Pornography, Sexual Intimacy, and the Fear of Early Conversations

Don't you want your children to have really great sex lives? Don't you want them to be able to be married and have a really wonderful sexual relationship with their spouse? Well, it begins in childhood because porn can ruin all of that.

And I've just, there's like 50 of all divorces mention internet pornography as one of the major reasons. So it's huge. And if we want our children to enjoy a wonderful, you know, sexual relationship with their spouse, we need to start protecting them from porn at a young age.

Now you've mentioned this kind of sprinkled throughout, but I want to focus in on a little bit more because I know that a lot of listeners are saying, yes, what you're saying sounds so right. I agree.

But I still am scared out of my mind. I don't know how I'm going to sit down with this five-year-old, the six-year-old and start having this conversation. In fact, it may even feel more awkward, the idea of sitting down with my 12-year-old and having this conversation.

So why do you think it's hard for parents to begin these conversations about pornography? And then how do your books help us facilitate that so that we don't have to give into those fears and avoid it because we just don't know what to say?

Overcoming Fear and Using the Books as a Tool

Well, pornography is a big, ugly topic to many people. We feel like we're going to just open our kids' brain and pour a bunch of dark tar into it, right? Like, oh, we're going to tell them about pornography?

Oh my gosh, it's going to be terrible. And we don't know how much to say. We don't know the words to say. We don't know. We have this fear that if we talk to them about it, they'll be curious. You know, all these fears.

But where does fear come from? Let me just remind people, this is a tool, right? And we need to fight that fear because our kids are worth it. So that's why I wrote the books. It's a tool for parents to use to start that conversation.

And it makes it really easy. They want to see other parents' testimonials, go on to either our website, ProtectYoungMinds .org slash books, or go on Amazon. I mean, there's over 700 reviews on Amazon of Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, the original book.

And you can see parents talking about how it's so comfortable and it was so easy. And so I would say, get the book, shameless plug, and read it through. And some libraries have it too. So there's that.

And read it through yourself and then, you know, set up a time to just start, get started. I promise you, you will feel the weight lift off your shoulders. The weight of the fear and the anxiety that you may not even realize you're feeling about this topic, but you are.

So I would say, give it a try. And I have so many stories of children doing exactly what their parents have instructed. One little boy named Riker was walking home with a friend. They got off the bus and they stopped by their friend's mailbox and this little boy, his friend pulled out, I don't know if it was a Playboy or a Hustler, but it was a pornographic magazine that his father had.

And the little boy just was looking through it, you know, just looking through it. And Riker said, that's pornography. You shouldn't be looking at that. That could be harmful to your brain. That's awesome.

And the little boy said, what's pornography? And Riker gave him a little definition. And you know, Riker may not have changed what that boy did. He may have, but he may not. But Riker set his boundaries.

That's awesome. Right? I don't look at this stuff. And it's so important, but children will, they will do it. And the younger you start, the better, the more protected. So I always say hashtag sooner is safer.

Yes.

Vocabulary, Boundaries, and Protecting Children Early

And I think the books are, again, just to put your mind at ease, the books give you fantastic working definitions. They provide the vocabulary you need. They're able to really talk about the cool scientific side of things of how pornography really does damage your brain.

Growing up, that's not something we thought, you know, we knew the spiritual impact of it, but we didn't realize the psychological and the biological impact it has on our brains. But then also it gives you and your kids a plan.

You don't have to come up with it. It's right there in the book. And I agree with everything Kristen said. I'm going to tell you, not a shameless plug whatsoever. I mean, it is shameless, I suppose. Get the book.

Okay. In fact, I'm going to provide another link in the description of this episode, along with the episode notes. Okay. It'll take you to truthloveparent .com, the page that features Kristen's books.

Now, if you purchase any of the books from the Amazon affiliate links, you're obviously going to support Kristen and her mission. You're also going to be taking another important step in obviously preparing your family to glorify God by worshiping him instead of their self-gratification and the exploitation of others.

But also if you use our affiliate links, your purchase will benefit TLP because we are Amazon affiliates. Yeah, I want to jump on board here with what Kristen was saying about, you know, sooner is safer.

Okay. This can start in such an easy way. And this is a little, maybe a little off topic, but I just want to really encourage you guys with something practical. My wife and I covered the body parts very early on with our kids.

That's a wonderful way to start conversations about sexuality, inappropriate touching, pornography, all of that. And we also explained to our children that there are only three people who should ever look at or touch their private parts.

That's their daddy and their mommy, if necessary. And we were very clear to say that it's not something that mommy and dad are going to do all the time, but if necessary, doctors to whom daddy and mommy have given their permission and then their future spouses.

And see that right there without going into any more detail, lets the children see that that part of their body is precious. It's unique. It's special. It has a purpose for something and that purpose is not for other people to be looking at it.

But then that also implants in their brain the fact that if only three different groups of people, very small group of people should be interacting with that part of their body, then clearly no one else should.

And presumably they shouldn't be interacting with anybody else's. And just a really simple way as you're talking about the body parts to help your kids be comfortable with their bodies, but also start this conversation.

For me and my wife, this has been a repeated theme with my kids and has matured with them as they've gotten older. And we believe it's just really been a helpful part of this conversation. Anything that you would add to that, Kristin, and maybe anything from your research or from your experience that's just a really great way to start with super young children?

Teaching Body Parts, Privacy, and Vocabulary

Well, Aaron, I'll just say you are an amazing dad, so kudos for you. That's awesome. Your kids are very blessed. I would just say name the body parts, but make sure they know the body parts, the names of the body parts of the opposite gender.

So unfortunately, there's a story that I know from a mom that I know whose three-year-old was being watched by a 14-year-old. This 14-year-old boy, they totally trusted. And I think he was even a relative.

And after the three-year-old was watched by him the first time, she told her mom, I don't like it when he pokes me with his stick. Now the mom was just saying, oh, you know, that's silly. She's being silly.

Didn't even get it. Even though she had actually worked for, you know, Child Protective Services, she did not ever think there'd be any problem with this young man who seemed so upstanding and so wonderful.

And then it was only months later that they found out that she was being raped. And if she had known the word penis, then that little girl could have stopped it after that first visit. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

She just didn't have the vocabulary. And it all would be ended. Oh, my word. She didn't have the vocabulary. Another story I have as far as like vocabulary is one mom, there was a boy, he was seven years old when it started, his 15-year-old brother started abusing him and teaching him to, you know, do things with his older brother and friend.

And a couple of years into this, I think the mother got wind of something might be happening. And so she went to the nine-year-old and she said, are you being molested? Is anyone molesting you? And he was like, no, because he could tell whatever it was she was talking about was not good.

He didn't know what it was. But then he didn't even know what molesting meant. So we really have to define our terms and be careful how we talk with our kids about any of this. And even we never want to say porn addicts are the scum of the earth, because, you know, your 12-year-old might then think, you know, porn addicts are terrible people.

And actually, I don't even like to say the word porn addict because person first terminology. So it's people that struggle with an addiction. We don't want to make them out as horrible people. They're not.

They're not. They're people often that were caught when they were young children and nobody warned them. I don't like to. Some of the best people I've met in my life have are recovered from this and it has nothing to do with how good your kid is.

They can be pulled in just simply because of the biology. Yeah.

Preparing Children for Suffering and Clear Language

And Kristen has said so many important things right here. I actually what's funny is that she's almost beautifully introducing our next couple of months of episodes. We're going to talk about parenting suffering children.

You know, there are children out there who parents need to know how to prepare their children for the suffering in this world. God forbid that they actually suffer, but we also need to know how to parent them through it.

One of the worst things we would think is that something happened to our child, but then we need to know how to help our child through that. But then we're also going to have a number of episodes all about how the language that we use with our kids, terminology, vocab, using language the way it was intended to be used, defining our terms the way God defines them, speaking to our children as if they are able of comprehending the subjects because they are going to be interacting with the experiences.

It's going to happen. And if we're not arming them with words to recognize pornography and to understand sex and to understand the different body parts, then they're going to be lost. They're going to be floundering.

And so I love how providentially Kristen has really set the stage here for these next weeks of episodes because this is really all important stuff that affects really everything we do as parents. So Kristen, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you so much for your mission, your passion to help parents prepare their kids to respond correctly to bad pictures. Thank you so much for these books and all the work you're doing. Thank you.

I can't say thank you enough. Well, I'm glad to have the opportunity to help in some small way. And I feel like the resources that we're producing really are helpful for parents. I just want to mention that this year we're doing a special for our subscribers on Protect Young Minds.

We are doing a special resilient parenting challenge. So how do you raise kids that are resilient to the negative aspects and the negative things that they're going to encounter? How do you increase their resilience?

And we have identified 12 different things that you can work on and just month by month. So it's not overwhelming. And so when people sign up to get our weekly emails, we're going to be sending those out as well.

It's really just another opportunity to strengthen your parenting and strengthen your kids.

Yes. So everyone out there, listen, ProtectYoungMinds .org. It's actually more than I realized it was. ProtectYoungMinds .org. There are blogs, there's resources, there are all these fantastic things that Kristen's been telling us about as well as a bunch of stuff that she hasn't even had the time to get to yet.

So please take advantage of that. This is a big deal. And like I mentioned earlier, don't forget about getting your biblical companion guide to good pictures, bad pictures when you join the TLP family.

And again, one more time, Kristen, thank you so much for spending this time with us today. It's been a pleasure, Aaron. I want to encourage all of our listeners to pick up a copy of Kristen's book. Please use the links at TruthLoveParent .com and also share this episode on your favorite social media outlets so other parents can learn about this amazing resource.

And don't forget to join the TLP family so you can access your own biblical companion guide to good pictures, bad pictures. In addition, if you or someone you know is already struggling with sexual addiction of any kind, or you and your spouse are struggling in the area of sexuality, please don't hesitate to contact Counselor at TruthLoveParent .com.

We would love to help your family in any way that we can. Remember, if we want our children to grow up into Christ, we must parent in truth and love. Preparing our kids to respond correctly to the temptations of pornography is going to be a huge part of that.

It may sound difficult, but it really is one of the beautiful parts of parenting. To that end, join us next time as we look at the most beautiful part of parenting.

Truth, Love, Parents is part of the Evermind Ministries family and is dedicated to helping you become an intentional, premeditated parent. Join us next time as we search God's Word for the truth your family needs today.