Lauren Daigle’s Comments, Ed Shaw’s Views, Steven Anderson on Hebrews 2:9

Well greetings and welcome to The Dividing Line. My name is James White and this isn't how we normally look here, but that's okay we are live from The heart of Oklahoma, well, okay, maybe not so much but Looks like we've we've got a fairly decent connection.

Hope it stays stable. Wanted to Comment on some things that are going on. Sometimes when I travel once I get back there's so many pressing things to comment on stuff gets left behind and I sort of feel left out quite honestly and In fact, one of the reasons later on we'll be looking at a clip of a Steven Anderson thing is because Jeff and the gang at Apologia Studios got to comment on some of the stuff he was saying he went after Jeff at some What is it what is it with independent fundamentalist Baptist who started this Strange normally not very well done painted background thing that you have to stand in front of what what is that?

I don't. Is that is that the IFB regulative principle being applied or something that you have to have some Goofy painting behind you to be able to preach well or something. I mean, it's it's weird but anyway, he was someplace other than his his own place in Tempe and Actually said that that I had moved to Tempe I I haven't so I'm not sure what that's all about.

But they got to respond to that even before I I got to so I'm sorry feel like I'm falling behind so we're gonna do a little something along those lines, but I Will confess before everyone right now that I have no idea honestly Who Lauren Daigle is I I don't keep up with Contemporary Christian music.

I did at one point when I was contemporary. I'm not anymore so I I've never maybe I've heard a song cuz you know once in a while There's nothing else on and so I have the local family life radio thing on or you know, by the way, I Worked for family life radio back in 1985 86 somewhere around there and I remember very very clearly.

This was back when you you spun vinyl records. You chose your music and you put records over here and you queued them up and then you spun the record. That's how long ago this was but I remember very very clearly post on the wall was the criterion for what music you get to play and One of the specific things was that it should not feature a strong drum beat.

Yeah, that's that was family radio in the 1980s. They've I think if that piece of paper still exists they've put it in a frame and put it in the museum someplace because that's not what you hear on on FLR or on Any of the other cake Caleb?

Whatever that network is that that stuff anyway. Once in a blue moon, I'll tune over there. So maybe I've heard some of her songs. I just don't I'm sorry I just don't know who she is and so maybe there's a reason why everyone is jumping up and down doing handstands because She reflected the fact that She doesn't know much about the Bible and doesn't know much about Christian theology doesn't have much of a solid foundation.

But I'm sitting here going did we expect that? I mean honestly you you put these people up on a pedestal and then you put them on the road and You let them travel for 40 weekends out of the year. They're not under regular teaching.

They're not under regular preaching. I don't know what kind of a church she even goes to if she goes to a church or as a member of a church. Or anything like that. Do we really expect them to have some level of theological education and an understanding of things?

A solid theology they're singers and You might sit there go. Oh, but her songs are so pretty that doesn't mean that she's been theologically trained. And so I'm just like really. People are calling in and they're doing special programs about the apostasy of this this young lady and all the rest of stuff.

And I don't even know where she goes to church. What she said was your standard cultural Christian response when someone pushes back on homosexuality and what it demonstrates is sadly. This is how most Christians are thinking today.

They recognize the huge cost in in standing against the cultural trend and If if you are not convinced that this is a key Biblical issue if you're not convinced that it's a Christian worldview issue that it's an authority issue that it's a that It's really a sin issue that you if you cannot define what sin is any longer.

Then you clearly cannot in any way shape or form Present Jesus as the Savior from sin when you don't have any concept of what sin is and. So it is an important issue. And so I suppose I can understand why people are like, oh you need to understand.

But I don't understand why anybody the the level of response has indicated that you would expect a young female Christian singer. To have a high standard of theology now, there are young Christian female singers who do yay.

But let's just be honest. There's sort of the exception not the rule. And so I was just sort of like well I'm really disappointed in that response. It doesn't seem like she really knows, you know what the issues are or maybe she doesn't have a commitment to scriptural authority.

I don't know. I Just wondered why people Responded so very strongly unless at some point in the past She has made strong statements on the other side and now has abandoned them, but that's not what it sounded like.

It's not like oh, I don't know. I'm you know, I'm not God. I can't judge, you know, you read the Bible for yourself. Blah blah blah at your standard American westernized cop-out type thing that says I don't want to get in the middle of this and I I don't want to You know lose my recording contracts, I guess it's a possibility.

I don't know. But her response was clearly unbiblical as would be the response of the vast majority if you want to get upset with somebody get upset With the people who are ministers who are leading their entire churches to abandon Minimally Jesus's authority as a moral teacher.

I mean You you can't come up with Western Sexual ethics from looking at what Jesus taught. That's just you know, so get upset with them. There's plenty of them out there like I said Trying to keep up with the books that are coming out today that promote this kind of perspective pretty difficult to do pretty difficult to do so.

Want to start off with that and because I I actually heard I was I was driving I think it's actually when I was driving to Tupelo from Tulsa I'm not sure where I am these days actually. Because what's confusing is I probably would have taken me less time yesterday to drive from Tupelo here to prior that did fly because I had to drive from Tupelo to Tulsa and then wait there for two hours and then fly for two hours to Dallas and wait there for three hours and then fly from Memphis wherever I was.

Yeah, that's right Tupelo to Memphis Memphis to Dallas Dallas to Tulsa and Tulsa to prior. Yeah, put all together. I probably would have been faster to drive. But I wouldn't have got my miles. So there's that I suppose and that trip that drive from Tupelo to Memphis Trucks everywhere man, I I felt like this little.

Because the FedEx trucks that is a huge FedEx central thing there At the airport and they were all over the place in the dark and I felt really small. But anyway so What am I doing here? Well last night I decided to do something sort of strange.

I I'm a grace life church here in prior and I've been here. I've been told twice before I said I do seem to recall that I'll be honest. I don't remember all the details of exactly how I Got hooked into this first time does somebody have something on me that that I don't know about Shooting we went well, I know we went I know I've gotten to go do some cool shooting stuff here but I don't I don't remember what all the.

Everything now with all the traveling is just sort of mixing together and it's like yeah I remember being there and I don't remember what year it was and you know I remember snippets and little bits and pieces and stuff, but it's all melding the other but some.

One of the connections here that I just tweeted about and put on Facebook is the fact that It was when Kofi posted a picture of his post tenebrous Lux rebind from Jeffrey Rice. That I went ooh that looks really cool and fairly shortly after that the pastor here in prior Posted a picture of his.

That has. Well, we could have used it and I'm not sure why we didn't. I suppose we could have just taken a picture of that as Advertisement for the for the seminar because it's all the the solos on the on the binding.

So what you know, we could have done that. But anyways, it was like aha. See here's here's here's somebody I need to get in touch with and that that's what led. Of course, and I was just showing this off Here in my room.

That's what led of course that I do have it with me to my my own Greek New Testament and I'm actually carrying it around and and You know when when when the folks who watch this program show up and they're like, can I see the Greek New Testament?

Yeah Creepy I Get it out and I've actually let people hold it and I probably shouldn't because you know. All of a sudden I could just see somebody going going crazy and running out the front door with it.

Never seeing it again. But that's what led to. That's what he's gonna do, okay, there's a little bit of a studio audience here that is on the other side of the room, but I'm not sure I can trust them to be involved in the program or not.

So what we'll see so Anyways, so I I posted a picture Jeffrey Rice Got to join a club before me and that is Brother Mountain here at the church is a knife maker. So here is my my my Melton original. So if you if you tried it, okay, if you try to take my Greek There are places on the planet I can't carry this unfortunately, but Oklahoma is not one.

They they still got the Second Amendment a few other things down here. But that's a that's a beautiful knife. I love the it's got some beautiful turquoise in the in the handle. So that's That's special stuff so I'm here and I Started off the study of the soul as the Reformation rather oddly.

I Reprised a Presentation similar to what I did last Sunday morning in st. Charles where I started off with the story of Munster and This time I got to tell the story a little bit more fully than I did during the Sunday school because they only had 45 minutes then I took over an hour on this one.

Even though that's still a fast a fast summary to try to to get through Munster in that in that amount of time. But the reason I did that was so that we could illustrate What happens when the solas are violated?

And of course one of the arguments that Roman Catholics make is That things like Munster the Anabaptist movement all the Protestant Denominations stuff like that are the result of solo scriptura when plainly and clearly they are not.

Solo scriptura was not being practiced at at Munster and you cannot blame a solo scriptura for Jan Mathis claiming to be receiving revelations from God or Jan of Leiden either one. That has nothing to do with accepting soul scripture.

In fact, that's a fundamental denial of solo scriptura. But it is a common Roman Catholic practice to make that kind of argumentation and to say see, you know this This led to this this other that all the rest of this kind of stuff and it just it just simply isn't true.

So it's it's important to keep that Keep that in mind. Okay next thing real quick. I had mentioned this When I was still in in Phoenix There is an article at living out org and It is by Ed Shaw now. Why is this relevant because my understanding is that Ed Shaw is one of? the primary speakers that living out org sends out into conservative churches To speak on the subject of same-sex attraction Homosexuality and there are what we would ostensibly identify as very conservative individuals, especially within the Southern Baptist Convention and Related entities.

Okay, so Evangelicalism as a whole and the Southern Baptist Convention specifically There are individuals who are promoting These individuals who are saying who would be saying to pastors because they have a rather Public persona and perspective.

They are basically saying to churches Yeah, go ahead and have these folks in they're solid they're biblical the hope your people to grow and understand this particular issue and things like that and This article.

That was let's see, this is dated November 27th, at least is when I clipped it so it may be earlier than that, but By Ed Shaw from living out org called what's wrong with a permanent faithful stable same-sex sexual relationship.

Now could I just point out there are almost none of these. I mean the surveys are clear That if permanent faithful stable opposite sex sexual relationships, that is long marriages are rare enough. You know one thing watching the funeral of President George HW Bush yesterday and then again today actually in Houston.

Real reminders 73 years of marriage. You've got to take your hat off to that. You've got it. You've got to salute that that's. And obviously a very good marriage. In the sense of the real commitment going on there.

Anyway, that's rare enough. Far more rare is the idea of a permanent faithful stable same-sex sexual relationship that almost never happens and If it does it's almost always going to be amongst women not amongst men.

It's somewhat of a Elusive thing. But here's here's part of the article and here's why I wanted to comment on it. Subtitle says the good in something doesn't make it right in God's sight. We'd be crazy to deny the good in permanent stable faithful same-sex sexual relationships read accounts of the gay community the height of the eighth epidemic and you'll be moved to tears by the Self-sacrificial love of couples who devotedly nurse both loved ones and complete strangers.

We need to realize how much the gay community has to teach us about the meaning of the word community. Now Analyzing this from a Christian worldview. You you immediately are Sensing that the term good here is being used.

Not as it would be derived from a Christian concept, but from a worldly concept. He says Andrew Marin Writes I have never met a more loving community in my life than the GLBT community. Obviously there are exceptions in any community.

But in general I've found that GLBT people don't care if you're skinny Hairy fat pimpled a millionaire or dead broke there is room for everyone. All they want is to give the same love to others as they want to receive themselves.

You know, I've certainly read this coming from those promoting that community. But Obviously from a Christian worldview you have to step back and go wait a minute the fundamental foundation of this community is Selfish self-centered and does not lead to the flourishing advancement of the individuals involved with it.

How can you call this loving and good? These are good and loving here are being used in completely secular context not in any biblical context at all. There's no differentiation being made. This is very troubling.

It goes on to say we certainly don't deny that there are real elements of beauty in The relationship of the nice gay couple next door. I do I Do and I will beauty is a biblically defined concept. There is beauty in a 73 year long marriage of a man and a woman.

I will deny that there's beauty in a 73 year long Relationship between a man and a man because of what it has resulted in in the diminishment of both. So I'm not going to I'm not going to give in to this this Mantra being now promoted within conservative churches.

Well, that's a beautiful thing. Hold on a second. Goes on to say their commitment and love and again I define commitment and love on biblical foundations not on on secular foundations their commitment and love Are part of God's common grace to humanity.

So so the relationship and and the long-lasting this of it is part of common grace. Could this be transferred to any other aberrant unnatural disordered sexual relationship. Take out homosexual and and put pederastic in here.

Does that fit? Hopefully you go. No. Okay. Why where's the difference? What's what's the issue here? The happiness your niece is enjoying is a good that God has created for us to enjoy her happiness is real.

I guess there was a question up above. I'm sorry that I forgot to grab That someone had had asked that specifically Mentioned That that would give some type of a context to it. But anyway The happiness your niece is enjoying is a good that God has created for us to enjoy.

You're telling me that a person who enjoys a disordered relationship and receives Joy from that. This is a part is a good that God created for us to enjoy. No by by the very act and orientation. They are shutting themselves off from the good that God intended for us to enjoy.

Then it says her happiness is real. This this is at living out org, this is one of the speakers that goes out in the churches conservative churches and is presenting this. Could anyone imagine this five years ago ten years ago fifteen years ago.

I I I can't now Goes on to say but crucially the good in something doesn't make other aspects of it right in God's sight. Well, it's true as as far as it goes. I just dispute the good part. All human beings are capable of doing things that are good if never completely so.

Mmm, I'm sensing a less than thoroughly biblical anthropology here. But these echoes of our original perfection do not make us right in God's sight. Jesus's death is required for God to declare that so in other words the imputed righteousness of Christ.

Similarly the many good things we might see or experience in a permanent faithful stable same-sex sexual relationship. When you have to come up with something that's an entire sentence long to describe it.

It probably doesn't exist but this is something that's very very common today is. From the other perspective what you do is you create this image of this? Committed Monogamous homosexual relationship now, it's gotten expanded even beyond that but this committed Not homogenous committed Monogamous, I'm not an age committed monogamous homosexual relationship.

Which almost never? Exists or happens it is by far the minority minority minority minority 0 .1 percent type thing and you use that to then normalize the 99 .9. Nothing new about this. This is this is pretty standard Similar than a good things we might see or experience in a permanent faithful stable same-sex sexual relationship.

Don't buy themselves now. Listen here. Listen, what goes up happens here. Don't buy themselves make the sexual aspect of the relationship legitimate. At its center is sex outside the permanent stable faithful marriage of a man and a woman.

Something that God has never declared to be right in his sight. The good in the relationship doesn't Can't ever make its sexual dimensions right to him now the narrow focus of that is something we would have to agree with but notice what is fundamentally being done there a division is being made between The all the rest of the External good stuff and the only thing that's really wrong is the sex act and this to me is really problematic because The sex act is a part of an entire complex of desires that are disordered finding your Go back to to Genesis eights air connecto your your proper helpmate the one that is corresponding to you in Another male or in another female in a same-sex relationship is a disordered thing.

And I'm getting the feeling that living out doesn't want to say it. That's true. I'm getting the feeling that living out does not want to say that the actual Homosexual desire is disordered and inappropriate.

That's what I'm hearing. I think and By just saying well, it's just the sex act part. So everything else can be good. There's nothing wrong with that. It's the sex act part that is wrong. That is very problematic.

And then it goes on To say But of course all this begs the question Why is a same-sex sexual relationship so wrong in God's sight and then goes the second key truth real sex is unity indifference that would go to the eights air connecto issue as it as it as it should but I'm just really concerned with the Acceptance amongst the growing acceptance Amongst formerly conservative and I mean formally as in ten years ago.

I mean, that's how fast this is happening Formerly conservative Individuals in the promotion of the idea that same-sex Attraction is not in and of itself a disordered desire. I mean, this is what you had at revoice.

This is what you're what you're getting here and. And it's it's extremely concerning to me, especially when it's being promoted in conservative churches. Because I'll be honest in conservative churches.

You have not had a whole lot of meaningful teaching on this subject. We need to get to it. But a lot of those who are ministering those churches are having to work through these issues themselves because this has not been something Certainly wasn't something that was central in the teaching of seminaries when I was in school long ago.

And so it's something a lot of ministers are extremely uncomfortable dealing with we can't avoid it anymore. But it takes us back to the first story and that is. Some of the responses I was seeing to that singer were not only very ungracious.

But they were also marked by ignorance and there's still a lot of ignorance on the part of conservative Christians. Who will say oh, I'm against all that but but why why are you? What's the foundation?

What's what's the real issue? Can you can you? enunciate in a meaningful Compelling fashion why it is that homosexuality is not something that We can either just close our eyes to or can you explain why it is destructive to God's purposes in someone's life, that's.

And do so in a way that they could understand it that is biblical faithful. That really is a question that has to be has to be asked. So I Want to make a reference to that and it is interesting just want to real quick one that I'm gonna go to Stephen Anderson thing Back On also, November 30th a article appeared.

My Facebook feed. Ventura Unified Superintendent announces. He will resign amid sermon controversy and a Fellow by the name of Crestwell. David Crestwell has announced he's gonna be resigning because the recording of a Here Crestwell came under fire earlier this month after the school board was made aware.

I can guarantee you What kind of people were involved in making Them more made aware of a sermon that he delivered while an elder at Redeemer Baptist Church in Riverside. Keep something in mind if there's an open microphone anywhere near you first of all treat all microphones if they're open in the first place.

But if there's an open microphone anywhere near you. And you are speaking and and teaching you are Probably going to hear those words again. So whatever you say. Be prepared to live with it. In the sermon Crestwell said he was flipping through a yearbook.

Went on the superlative page under best couple. He saw a gay couple embracing. He said, oh boy. Here we go. Here's our world. He said that under most changed was a transgender woman. Who was pictured in makeup and a dress holding a photo of the male?

She was born as well. Of course, I wouldn't write this myself that way. That is a Boy pretending to be a girl and then he said this is the definition of most change. This is the definition. He said according to the audio of the sermon which has since been removed from the church's website at Crestwell's request.

There's a growing sector of our culture of our society that says that's good and that's normal and I need to embrace it. We're now celebrating it. Now that's a statement of fact. There was nothing wrong with that in any way shape or form.

I realize that the totality moral and ethical totalitarians of today. May not even you know, who knows maybe this will be the YouTube video that gets us bounced out but I realized that those people are doing that but we still have the right to believe true things and What's what bothered me about reading this article aside from the reality of the totalitarianism and the quashing of free speech and the anti-christian nature of all this is that they pulled the sermon there wasn't anything wrong with the sermon and then Crestwell Apologized for the remarks after he said he met with people in the LGBTQ community in Ventura and in the district that's that was like well, look I I understand the pressure undoubtedly that would have been put upon him, but Apologized for speaking the truth.

There wasn't that I mean I've heard things that Christians have said. I fully get why they apologized because they didn't have the right attitudes. Didn't have they weren't saying the right things, but it is a perfectly fair observation.

To point out where our society is going on the basis of this kind of thing and to apologize for it and then resign seems really backwards to me, but that's That is what is going on all three of the opening stories.

They're common threads. That we're dealing with every day, it's just it's just the way things are okay. It it makes me chuckle to be honest with you every time. Someone comes up to me and says hey, I really enjoyed your debate with Steven Anderson.

See, I just chuckled. So I was telling you we've never had a debate and We we did an interview and It was an interview that almost never happened because someone who remained nameless rich got the The communication from Anderson and You know just it was just like he's never gonna want to do that so so he wasn't even gonna pass it on to me and I forget exactly how the conversation went, but There was some somehow for some reason he brought it up and said, you know, Steven Anderson wants to do interview with you and for a movie they're gonna be doing and He just about fainted when I said, okay.

All right. That's that what do it do it here at the office or you know, cuz you know, we're he's in Tempe. I'm in Phoenix. And it was like well, I guess you mean you you want actually want to do this and I'm like, yeah, why not?

So that's what led to the famous two hour and 20 minute interview that is on that is on YouTube 90 seconds of which or maybe less was used in the movie. They didn't really get what they wanted and and in fact what they used in the movie was irrelevant to to the points They were making What they're trying to make anyways.

But over the years You know Steven Anderson has been More someone you would You know play clips of and just go can you believe this guy? You know his getting tased at the California border one was absolutely classic.

I'm not sure that my law enforcement friends would find that to be a a classic thing because they have to risk themselves. Breaking windows and reaching in there and tasing people and all the rest that kind of stuff, but but that's how it ends with his law, you know made a lot of us, you know chuckle just just just a little bit in the process, but but then you know the when he's kicking his pulpit and and You know when he first started.

Well, hey when we first started doing the dividing line on on video with the White background and the ceiling the ceiling things on the wall and the horrible lighting and all the rest that kind of stuff I suppose we were doing something similar, but you know It's just clear.

They just had a little camera up on a tripod someplace and he's doing the things he's doing sadly, his movement has grown and Not only locally but across the across the nation and You know, he's become known for his questioning of the of the Holocaust and just all sorts of just weird weird weird stuff.

Let alone his behavior in the pulpit. I mean, he just He just looks like an angry cult leader and in many ways he is even though for some reason. They had an explosion of oneness belief in his church anti-trinitarians in his church, and so he somehow wanted to be seen as a defender of Nicene Orthodoxy or something by the way, he went after the people in his church and Kick them out you get out of here.

You gotta you know It's kicking people out of the service and by name and stuff like that and rah-rah-rah and whatever. So Anderson is. He's not a stupid man. Okay, you need to understand that he's worked as a German translator in the past.

He can speak fluent German, right much better than I can. So he's not a stupid man, so these you know his behavior if he was himself Always out of control or immature or ignorant or something like that.

You might be able to go. Okay, you know guys got a problem. That's not the case. He clearly has the ability to do meaningful study he just does not want to think in a disciplined manner and I think he truly enjoys the power that he exercises over other people and getting them to follow him.

There's a lot of people like that in the world. All of your religious cults have the same orientation along those lines so every once in a while, you know people will send a link and the last link someone sent was like I said this Conference that they were doing someplace may have been in Texas.

I don't remember where he Went after Jeff Durbin and primarily but he mentioned me in passing and Mentioned how Jeff Durbin's into in Tempe I've moved to Tempe which was wrong and then Everybody's come to Tempe and then many quotes Matthew 16 But the gates of hell will not prevail against Christ Church because they're in Tempe.

Yeah, okay, so His exegetical prowess is questionable just a little bit Right around the same time someone sent me a link and I was able to track it back down because I Download it, but I left it on my computer at home and forgot to put in Dropbox.

So I don't have it on this one. I Travel to much much smaller computer. It's just so much easier to get through TSA and it's lighter and all the rest that stuff. It does what I needed to do. Anyways, so I was able to track it down.

I May do a dividing line. In fact, I've invited Jeff. Maybe he can find the time I don't know given its holiday season and I'm gonna be gone like the first two months of the year basically but maybe you can come over and we can do a a Koojified radio for each free Geneva.

Where we walk through this video? Because it has it does have relevance. At least the verses that he's presenting in defense of quote-unquote universal atonement are the standard verses. It's not like he's come up with wacky stuff that no one else would would understand but what I wanted to do is I wanted to Look through the text That he utilizes and then listen to his comments.

Now. I realize that's sort of the opposite way that It's normally done. You normally listen to You listen to the comments. There's pictures being taken over there. You listen to the comments and you go the text and rebut it.

I like walking through the text first so that when you then hear the comments You can immediately see where the issues are where the problems are. And it is one of the key texts. Oh, and by the way, by the way, by the way December 17th is a week from Monday and I think it's week of Monday.

Yeah. Yes. No, maybe. Well, I do have a phone in my hand and it does have this little cool thing. Yes, it's week of Monday and It's a major day in history because it has to be a birthday. Which doesn't really mean anything at all.

Actually. All I know is when I was born in Minneapolis on December 17th It was frigid cold with lots of snow not overly surprising for Minneapolis this time here. Anyways on December 17th, there is going to be a debate an online debate between Michael Brown and Sonny Hernandez on Limited atonement.

I Only found out about this last night. I saw something in my feed. I don't know if Micah posted it or who posted it I Commented before that. I was very disappointed in The previous debate which was an in-person debate between Theodoros Icariotis and Michael Brown on the spiritual gifts Speaking in tongues specifically if I recall correctly.

Mainly because Theodore's opening statement was almost incoherent. No one no one even on his side. We're all sitting there going. Why what what what are you talking about? What what was that and Didn't really get to most of the standard Argumentation that a biblical cessationist would use Until the cross-examination and that's too late.

Once you get to once it gets cross X you cannot be establishing meaningful parameters in a debate. If you don't get to your point till then you blew it. So it wasn't useful I did not find to be a useful debate in any way, but you know that Theodore and Sonny do that.

Well, at least last I knew Do this thing together. They call themselves Dorotean Calvinists. And so Armenians are their primary mission field not Armenians as in as Christians, but Armenians who need to get saved and become Dorotean Calvinists and And so we've we've had this discussion before especially back when Sonny and Theodore did that debate with The traditionalists or the Armenians already got a call including latent flowers which in of itself was well, my hotel here isn't very far away from some train tracks and so if we had Two trains coming full speed and they just Crash right out there pretty much similar to what that debate was was all about on a theological level anyway you know, I I don't want to prejudge my concern obviously is going to be the Level of self-restraint that Sonny Hernandez can manage to muster up.

Because Michael knows how to use that just as I do When the other side starts getting all riled up, you know, you've won. That's just all there is to it. And So I'm I'm not gonna get to listen that day.

I'm gonna be traveling that day, but Listen live, but I will definitely be listening quickly. And I've already mentioned to Michael listen Depending on how it goes. Maybe we could do something on this because I think it's a very important issue.

I hope honestly that Sonny Hernandez will present what needs to be presented and from my perspective the key issue that needs to be presented in the issue of the extent of the Atonement the intention the Atonement is the Trinity.

When was last time you heard that emphasized? Well, if you read John Owen and go back then you will see it. It's foundational and from my perspective When we reform folks do not start there. We're wasting our time and you may say well, what do you mean real simple?

There has to be unity in the actions and intentions of the Father the Son and the Spirit in Salvation the power of the Reformed understanding of what's called limited Atonement or particular redemption is Not in it as a unitary doctrine because it can't exist as a unitary doctrine.

You cannot talk about the Atonement without talking about the intention of the Father in election the result of the sacrifice of the Son in light of the Father's intention and in light of the Father and the Son sending the Spirit to redeem who and to accomplish what?

So the the doctrine makes Absolute perfect sense and is beautiful and is consistent and is biblical in the context of the whole doctrine of reformed salvation flowing from Key texts on the nature of God the sovereignty of God his elective decree and then that Provides the background for being able to understand then the work of the Son and the Spirit.