September 17, 2021 Show with Wes Carpenter on “Woke Religion: Unmasking the False Gospel of Social Justice”

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Friday on the 17th day of September 2021.

And I know that there are a lot of people out there who are thinking, man, this guy

Chris Arnzen interviews guests who oppose the woke movement and the social justice warrior phenomenon a lot, and there is a reason for that.

That's because this is a prominent evil in our current day and I don't think that we can overreach in our frequency of exposing the lies of this movement and we're going to do that again today with a first -time guest,

Wes Carpenter, who earned his B .S. from Christopher Newport University and his

M .B .A. from the College of William and Mary and his M .Div. from the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, and he's currently a

THM student at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where my dear friend of many years,

Dr. Joel Beeke, is the president. He's also served in churches in South Korea, the

Pacific Northwest, and Southeastern United States. Today we are going to be addressing

Wes's new book, Woke Religion, Unmasking the False Gospel of Social Justice, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trumpet's Iron Radio, Wes Carpenter.

Thanks so much, Chris, for having me on, and I just love your program, what you're doing. I've really been looking forward to this, and I saw also,

I'm praying for you, about some of your, I saw your newsletter about some health issues, so I hope you're doing better.

Yes, God, thanks be to God, I am doing much better. And Wes is speaking about my,

I'm assuming he's speaking about my congestive heart failure that occurred actually last

July, but that may take many years to fully repair itself, if ever, so I thank you for your prayers.

And so tell us, first of all, right off the bat, why you, as a young man, seminary student, knowing that there are many books currently being written and published, taking a position against the

Woke movement, why did you find a, or how did you develop a passion and find a need to write

Woke Religion, Unmasking the False Gospel of Social Justice? Sure, yeah, that's a really good question,

Chris, and to be honest, I had avoided writing this book for some time back in seminary.

We were, when I first started hearing about some of these issues, we were basically told to listen when it came to social justice, when it came to what became known as Woke, critical race theory, and those sorts of things, and it kind of,

I remember being at a convention with, this was a

Southern Baptist convention several years back, and I just remember some of the things that were said that kind of made me uncomfortable in the classroom, not really fully on board with what was being said, and I was just kind of processing these things for several years, and then last year, last summer, when everything was going on in this country,

I'm sure your listeners are very familiar with the social justice movement, and I was having conversations with family members about, you know, there's riots going on, and things are really coming to a head, and the political atmosphere is very tense.

Critical race theory was coming into the workplace and in the church, and I'm having email discussions with a close family member, and it turns out a lot of the things that she was saying,

I had to go investigate from this book she was reading called

Life's Agility, it won't advertise it, it's not a good book, but anyway, I started reading through it, and I was horrified that a lot of the things that I was hearing brewing in seminary years back, and really came to its head last summer, it was almost as if a lot of these, what inevitably became woke churches and pastors were saying the same thing as people in the secular left academia that, you know, are propagating wokeness in almost, as it seems now, every sphere of our culture, and so I came to a point where, you know,

I couldn't really be silent on this issue anymore, I was not necessarily done listening, but I wanted to express a position on it, because when

I would line up things that people like Kendi or D 'Angelo or anything from critical race theory, it was like the same stuff was being propagated in the churches, and so I thought that, you know,

I need to write something on this, I know it's going to be a polemic work, and it really,

I wasn't planning on writing a book necessarily, because I was just responding to emails with a family member, but that's kind of how it came to be, and then

I started sending out manuscripts to see if anyone was interested in reading it, and I'm real thankful for my publisher,

Ambassadors International, it was very helpful, and that's kind of how it came to be, and sometimes, you know, it feels like you're on your own in this,

I was, at the time of writing last summer, you know, other men, like you mentioned, have written books, you know,

Voti and other men you probably have on your program, Owen wrote Wokeness, and so there's been some major works that have come out this year, but last year, it was like,

I kind of felt like the church hadn't quite got there yet, maybe got caught a little flat -footed, and it was time to speak up, so that's basically how it came about.

Well, if you could, for those of our listeners who have not heard any of my other interviews on the woke movement, on social justice, on critical race theory, why don't you define what woke means, and define what the gospel of social justice is?

Yeah, sure, and this is a woke, woke and wokeness, a lot of people have, you know, kind of thought about it like, well, it's just critical race theory, but it's actually much bigger than critical race theory or critical theory, and it's a false gospel, quite simply, and there's many elements and facets to it, but it's kind of a catch -all phrase for what is basically become a,

I would say, a secular state religion that's infiltrating the church, and I say that because of the syncretism of the ideology behind it.

The backdrop of wokeness has ideas that are toxic, it has a framework that it's operating from, and it's a standard of authority that it's claiming that it's not biblical, it's not a biblical authority, it's not operating foundationally from the

Bible at all, it's operating from neo -Marxist ideology that's not compatible with Christianity whatsoever, and so basically, just to kind of sum up how it works is, the paradigm of neo -Marxist ideology is an oppressor -oppressed dualism.

There's the oppressed group and there's the oppressor group, and I'm sure some of your audience is familiar with these terms, so I won't belabor it too much, but essentially, you're part of one group or the other, and if I go on too long, feel free to stop me, but it's more than cancel culture, it's an authoritarian state, if you like.

So for example, if you're white, so like last year, if you're white by definition, you know, because of white privilege, you're part of the oppressor class, and by definition, according to this ideology in the system that I think has become and emerged to a religion, and I'll explain that a little later, you're a racist if you're white by definition, according to the standard, and so, you know,

MacArthur said it last year, it's the biggest issue of our time, people like Votie Bauckham call it ethnic

Gnosticism, James Lindsay calls it an authoritarianism in our midst,

Gad Saad says it's an illiberal idea pathogen, Jordan Peterson, it's an illiberal idea pathology, and so it's essentially, you must confess pittance, if you like, to white guilt, complicity into institutional and systemic racism, and like I said, it's not just limited to critical race theory that presupposes racism and assumes it in this sort of, not the classical understanding of prejudice or, you know, partiality, but it's really a prejudice plus power, you're part of this hegemic power structure, but on the basis of your melatonin in your skin, on the basis of some other attribute too, and as it's more, if you could be an able -bodied male, you know, and that's where you get intersectionality, you could be, you know, a

Protestant Christian, you could be, you know, a middle -class, you know, churchman, and so on and so forth, and it goes on and on, and so it categorizes you into this group of oppression or oppressor, and then the oppressed group are the victims, and so as we start to think about this now and fast forward in time, this is,

I have to wonder, Chris, this power structure about, you know, Biden's vaccine mandates, you know, get the vaccine to protect, like you said last week, the vaccinated, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me in that type of language.

I'm not anti -vax per se, but the mandate, it's almost as if he's demonizing it as the unvaccinated group.

It's almost like, I have to wonder, are they now, in this sort of divisive -type language that he used, even though he said he wanted to unite and heal,

I have to wonder, you know, when he says things like, we're losing patience, so now, you know, white people last year in 2020 were the oppressors, and now is it the unvaccinated?

I don't know, and so, but I can tell you personally, I'm in a position where I'm going to probably face either getting the mandated vaccine or losing my job, and so are a number of my friends and family members, and so, and I only say that because, you know, some people are saying this was going to go away, you know, wokeness was going to go away, we don't need to worry about it, and I don't know,

I hope it goes away, and I hope we've turned the corner on it, but I'm still very concerned about it, especially as it's been fused with Christianity in the church.

Yes, and the irony and the hypocrisy involved is utterly palpable and breathtaking, because you see as a part of the rhetoric, and hear as a part of the rhetoric, of those who represent the woke movement and social justice, uh, they identify themselves as champions against racism, and yet they are perpetuating racism, just a different kind of racism.

For some reason, in the 21st century, it's okay to belittle and vilify and slander people just because of the lack of melanin content in their skin, those of lighter skins.

For some reason, that's okay to not judge them by the content of the character, but by the color of their skin, the exact reverse of what

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. stood for. Right.

So, and another irony is, when leftists vilify those who are refusing to be vaccinated, it's kind of an interesting statistic that there is a very high percentage, and I think it's a higher percentage of blacks in America that are refusing to be vaccinated than are agreeing to it.

So, there's a lot of illogical and hypocritical and nonsensical things that are key parts of the rhetoric.

Right, that's exactly right, Chris, and it's concerning because with the rhetoric is the toxic idea.

I'm a millennial, I'm kind of, you know, my parents, you know, are boomers, and then

I see this upcoming generation, especially in the church, and I am, you know, looking,

I'm thinking, you know, what's going to happen in the next generation? I have kids, and, you know, people say, you're only one generation from losing the gospel, and I say to that, well,

I wonder if America is not post -Christian anymore, but we're pre -Christian, and in a pre -Christian world, there is a lot of tyranny.

I mean, you're a man who's well studied, you know, it's like C .S.

Lewis, he said, of all tyranny, the tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims is maybe the most oppressive, and, you know,

I just don't want to repeat the 20th century. I don't think anyone does. I would hope not, and the tyrannical regimes, and, you know, it's different than the world that I grew up in, and I'm not even that old yet in America, and so I don't want to get all, you know, doomsday, sort of apocalyptic on people, and, you know, scary, but, you know, this is a spiritual war that we're in, and I look to Scripture, and that's one of the things

I wanted to try to point out in my book, The Difference. You ask, you know, why would I write this when so many other people are writing books like this right now?

Well, I don't want to, you know, beat a dead horse or anything or reinvent the wheel, but, you know, I want to get the truth out there in the

Gospel, because we are in a spiritual war, and, you know, we shouldn't be ashamed of the Gospel, and truth, it'll cut through error.

You know, I think someone said it was Rod Dreher, he said the Marxist Mordor was real, but the faith of those who resisted outlasted it, because totalitarianism meant something harder.

That's the truth, and so, you know, as we look at the Church today, I'm trying to understand as a student of Scripture, but also as a, you know, being as a seminarian studying theology,

I'm looking at these ideas that are confronting the Church, and I want to combat the bad ones.

I'm not against, you know, ideas that, let's say, are true, but they may not be explicitly in Scripture.

I'm all for truth, but this wokeness and the toxic ideology and identity politics that comes along with it, all the baggage, you can't chew up the meat and spit out the bones and think it's going to be fine.

No, it's poisonous, and it's going to be damaging, I think, if we don't continue to confront it as it changes like a chameleon, and, you know,

I'm not saying we need to get in the pulpit every week and preach against the gospel, but we do need to be aware of the phenomenon, if you like, in the culture and society around us of what's going on and how it's, you know, like you mentioned with the language, we're seeing these ideas coming at us, and most people that are my generation or younger, they're living digital lives, and that's where a lot of this language, like you mentioned, is being spewed, is on digital platforms, and so I think that's something we need to look at.

So I think you're 100 % right there, Chris. Well, the gospel of Jesus Christ involves the fact that all of humanity, regardless of skin color, regardless of ethnic origin, regardless of gender, regardless of status in the community, whether the poorest of the poor or the richest of the rich, and regardless of any level of authority, those that are slaves in the

Sudan and those that are kings and queens and presidents and governors and mayors and corporate executives and billionaires, all of us are made from the same lump of clay.

We are all sinners. We inherited a sinful nature from Adam, and we are all doomed other than the one and only hope that all sinners have, and that is the work of redemption performed on Calvary, completed 100 % successfully on Calvary's cross.

Jesus Christ, the perfect man who is both God and man, was the only suitable sacrifice for the sins of his people, and there was a great exchange that took place on that cross where Jesus Christ, the perfect man, hung there and took upon himself the wrath of the

Father in the place of sinners, and he paid the full price of the penalty that sinners deserve, and he was buried and on the third day rose again and ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the

Father where he rules and reigns. What about social justice conflicts with this that would make it a false gospel?

Yes, amen. That's a clear explanation of the gospel,

Chris, and the thing that really makes this differentiated from the substance of the gospel is that there's no

Christ in wokeness. If anything, not to mention it's not built upon the

Bible or Scripture, it's built upon, like I mentioned, critical theory,

Marxist ideology, identity politics, but if you take a look at what it's actually saying, and of course as Christians we're not against biblical justice.

We almost have to say what it's not. The Bible talks about pure and genuine religion as care for orphans and widows.

We're all for loving our neighbors. That's not what this is, though. This is saying do something.

It's a jaded view of the law. It's not the gospel. And people say, well, social justice is a gospel issue.

Say, well, what do you mean by that? Because when I hear about social justice and as I've taken a look at it, and I'm willing to be corrected, that's why

I wrote the book in part is so that people could examine it and show me where I'm wrong. I want to understand this.

The gospel is not what we do, but what's been done. The gospel is not a revolutionary movement that tears down societal structures and power structures, or a city for that matter, or a country, or Western civilization.

It's not about deconstructing society. The gospel is about reforming people by the power of God, by his spirit.

It's about the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Whereas, wokeness and the critical social justice movement, whatever term you want to use, wokeness hides racism in societal power structures.

Robin D 'Angelo even says this. She says racism's in the fabric of society, and it won't go away in her lifetime.

And I'm not just talking about the secular left academics. It's this ideology in seminaries.

There's the idea of stains of racism. Al Mohler even said it won't go away until Jesus comes.

And I look at that and I say, really? The stains of racism? Well, what is a stain of racism?

When I think about it, racism is sin. It's prejudice. It's partiality against a particular group of people.

That's sinful, and sin is within the heart, Jesus said. And Jesus also said, come to me all you who are heavy laden.

I'll give you rest. I mean, the whole New Testament, like you've mentioned very clearly in the gospel explanation, uh, the blood of Jesus will remove the stain.

And so has the gospel, has the cross lost its power? Is there still going to be stains?

I mean, is the church going to still be stained until Jesus comes? I don't think so. I think the church is clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

He lived a perfect life. And in our place, Jesus did the law. He kept the law perfectly.

And in Greek, the righteousness of God, the Ecclesiae Deo, is given to us, it's imputed to us, to our account.

In the judicial sense, it's that he fulfilled the law in our place. Critical social justice, wokeness, is not about that at all.

It's saying, no, you need to continue to do, and by the way, if you're a part of the oppressor group, you're a part of the problem.

You need to confess your original sin of whiteness, if you like.

And on top of that, you need to confess the sins of other people, ancestors who lived before you, who may even be dead.

And so it just goes off the rails really fast. In fact, let's pick up right where you left off there when we come back from our first break.

If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We'll be right back with Wes Carpenter and more of our discussion on woke religion, unmasking the false gospel of social justice, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in here on Iron Trumpet's Iron.

Our guest today is Wes Carpenter, author of Woke Religion, Unmasking the False Gospel of Social Justice.

If you have a question of your own that you'd like to ask, email it to chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com, give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Before the break, you were talking about how according to this

Woke movement and social justice ideology, white people have to confess the sin of being white and allegedly admit that they are inherently evil in a unique way, in a way that sets white people, or those who are lacking in melanin content in their skin, sets us apart from all the darker complected humans on earth in this inborn sin that not only incorporates lightness of color in our skin, but also has embedded in us an evil that apparently other darker skinned people do not have, and that is a sin of bigotry, a sin of desiring the enslavement of others, the downfall of others, the oppressing of others, and on and on and on.

And we are to be ashamed of even our ancestors that we've never met, and it doesn't even matter if they were slave owners or abolitionists.

This is utterly breathtaking and palpably evil ideology, hypocritical, and I can think of no other way to describe it other than being spawned from the very pits of hell, because it is so greatly accepted and applauded and celebrated by so many left -leaning individuals, and of course there are many,

I'm sure, who out of cowardice and fear of the repercussions should they not join the crowd who are just lying that they agree with this or they're keeping silent.

So if you want to pick up right where you left off there. Yeah, that's 100 % spot -on,

Chris, and I couldn't help as you were saying all that, and I say this as someone who's, not that it really matters that much because, you know, as Christians we're one in Christ, but I'm ethnically my grandmother's from Asia, and so when

I hear a lot of this, especially, you know, about what everything you just said, and when

I hear that from someone who is, you know, a pastor or, you know, if I hear this in the church, it becomes very strange to me because I'm thinking, well, how would that apply to me given that, you know,

I have an ethnic Asian heritage? And then if you look at, you know, the fruit of this,

I think it divides. I think you're right. You know, we talked about fear, and I think this is a tactic of the evil one is to divide, and when this comes in the church, that's what it does.

I don't think we have to look that far. I'm not an expert on everything that's going on in, you know, evangelical

Christendom, if you like, but I know this has had consequences, and I think there's been issues in David Platt's church and in other places as well.

I mean, you had Res 9 back in 2019, and that created a whole storm, and, you know, it's not just limited to Baptists, I don't think, either.

It's also, and I think it's in Presbyterian church, there's people that are sympathizing with wokeness, and, you know,

Tim Keller said that, you know, if you have white skin, it's worth a million dollars, and he was basically getting at that if you're white, then you deserve this.

You got it on the backs of, you know, American historical chattel slavery. I'm assuming that Dr.

Keller's never visited Appalachia. Right, and that's where, you know,

I currently reside, and so I'm very aware of the, you know, poverty is a problem here, but it's not

African Americans that are impoverished. It's lots of, like you mentioned, it's lots of, you know, white people here that are in poverty, and so it divides.

I mean, I think that's what's going on here, whereas in the Gospel, picking up where we left off, you know, you're either an

Adam or you're in Christ, and you're not a part of the woke identity group of whiteness.

You're an Adam or you're in Christ. If you're a Christian, you're in Christ. And the Gospel, it brings people from all nations together, doesn't it?

I mean, that's what Ephesians says, right, that Jesus unites people from every single nation, language, tribe, and tongue, according to the

Book of Revelation, and that's because of his death on the cross, his body that was broken, to unite the dividing wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile.

And so this false Gospel of woke social justice, it needs to be exposed and combated, and part of the reason, too,

I think there's some hesitancy, and I know you mentioned the fear again.

I've talked to pastors who are afraid of, this is a landmine issue, I think.

Just like all of the COVID stuff and the position you take on vax and, you know, mass and so on and so forth, this can be divisive within the

Church, and it's difficult. It takes wisdom, and it takes a lot of, you know,

I'm kind of getting a little ahead of myself here and talking about how to address it, but the bottom line is, you know, you have to call it what it is, and you can't sympathize with a counterfeit religion.

Let's just call it what it is, with false teaching. I think, I look at this as a Gentile heresy, just like the

Judaizers saying it's Jesus plus circumcision. I look at this as, if you want to sprinkle and fuse this together with Christianity, I look at this the same way as you would with, would you take the

Book of Mormon in your church, or any other sort of cult? That's the way I view this. Well, let's lay the axe at the root, if you will.

What is the foundational error of woke religion? Sure, so the foundational error, just to start,

I think I'll preface it by saying this is a religion that basically worships power and uses fear as a component for doing so, by separating people into groups, but I'll point out sort of woke epistemology.

Their doctrine of knowledge is the determination that oppressed groups have more access to knowledge, according to the

Neo -Marxist power structure paradigm, and they're saying that if you're a part of the oppressed group, you have, if you're a victim, you have more access to knowledge, and in fact, if there's,

I'm sure you've probably heard of like the phraseology of sort of like Uncle Tom.

When there's an African -American person that speaks against this, they get criticized, and they're saying, well, according to woke ideology, the only reason why an

African -American person would say something that's critical of, let's say, critical race theory or wokeness, is because they actually are allying with white people to help them, and it's not, it's like, you know, if you look at critical race theory, it's not how did racism, where did racism take place, per se, but it's like, how did it manifest itself?

So it just presupposes that, you know, and apologetics, there's like presuppositional apologetics.

We have assumptions built in concerning Christianity and the Gospel and Christian knowledge. We believe that it's based upon Scripture.

Well, they have, alternatively, a whole system that they presuppose that's based on, again, the neo -Marxism, it's on critical theory, identity politics, and so when you apply that to like the doctrine of man, which is like, everyone is going around in society now just like, who is man and how should man live?

That's sort of to sum it up, and there's a lot of debate about that. Well, in woke anthropology, their identity is determined by societal relation and groups, whereas like in Christianity, our identity is foundationally, we're creating the image and likeness of God, and so we're not even talking the same language.

I mean, we're talking, they're talking about their identities and the power groups that they're categorizing on the basis of, you know, either their skin color, and it could be now it's with intersectionality, it could be how they identify their gender, their sexual, you know, if they could, all the

LGBTQ stuff, I mean, it just goes on and on and on. And so, and I can keep going with, too, with their view of the doctrine of sin, and this is foundational.

We talked about, you know, guilt based upon the relationship to the oppressive power Scripture, skin color, but this, their view of sin, when they get into the doctrine of salvation, that's how we understand

Christianity materiology. You can't be absolved of the guilt. It's just perpetual confession. It's just, you're in purgatory of wokeness.

You, once you're become and awakened to these woke societal injustices that you're complicit in because of your parents and grandparents and so on and so forth, it's just perpetual confession, and so they've really created a whole religious framework.

I mean, and there's a book out called The Woke Church, you know, and it's about social justice activism and revolution, and then, you know, it even has its own doctrine of last things or eschatology.

It's about an equitable utopia. It's not about the New Heavens and New Earth and being rid of sin and suffering and death and Christ ruling and reigning.

It's about the deconstruction of Western institutional power structures and building,

I don't know if it's a great reset, but rebuilding some kind of equitable utopia. I don't even know what that is, but it's,

I don't know how to explain it except it's religious because it's so authoritarian in nature. You have to, you know, you said, you know, cutting at the root.

I think when you get into these empty philosophies and you look at it biblically, you have to say, is this an empty philosophy?

And if it is, I think that it's potentially satanic. It's a counterfeit religion.

It's false teaching. I think that, you know, Satan's disguised himself as an angel of light, right?

And it's not, it's not, it's kind of taboo to talk about Satan and spiritual warfare. It's not in the

Vogue or it's not popular in secular society. But society is so religious and the reason why

I think this is a secular religion is because people are inherently religious. There's a reason why

God says he desires worshipers who worship in spirit and truth. That's because he's created them with a spirit. So by definition, people are going to either worship in the truth or in error, and I think this would be worshiping in error.

Now, I think we have to be willing to have calm and rational and open -minded and peaceful dialogue and conversation with people over these issues, because I believe that slavery, which was not only the result of evil white people, evil black people in Africa kidnapped and sold their own people to evil white people.

In fact, there were even, although it was a minority of people here in the United States, there were black slave owners who owned black slaves themselves, blacks that had climbed the ladder financially and were able to buy their own homes and farms and plantations and so on.

But the fact that this evil existed not only here in the United States, but also in Europe and still exists, black -on -black slavery still exists in Africa.

But the fact that slavery existed here, and then after slavery, you still had successful efforts of bigoted white people, primarily in the

South, not exclusively, but primarily in the South, who thwarted the prosperity and the decline on the ladder in social and political and economic realms through Jim Crow laws and all kinds of things.

The fact that these things existed have prevented many blacks, not all, obviously, there are blacks who are billionaires, but has prevented many from catching up on those ladders of success, as men view success as far as socioeconomic and so on, political power.

So do you think it is wrong for us to recognize that because of a sin that was prominent in our nation, it did and does have ripple effects, that the difference between the way a

Christian responds to these things, and a leftist responds to these things, is that the leftist is using the very evil of racism to try to reverse the situation?

Yes, and that's a really, really good question. And what

I tried to do in the book, and I'm not doing a great job of it right now, but I'll try to explain that we as Christians ought to recognize more than anyone the nature of sin and how destructive sin is, beginning with the fall of man.

And, I mean, all of redemptive history, I mean, the

Old Testament is full of... I go through this in the book, actually. I go through all...

not all of it, but I just kind of do a really quick flyby of what happens in the

Old and New Testament from the perspective of spiritual warfare and God preserving his people.

Then if you look at Church history, I mean, there's a reason why the blood of martyrs is the seat of the

Church. I mean, it's destructive. And to the point of critical theory and critical social justice and wokeness, is there any element of truth in anything that they're saying?

And what I did in the book, I had a section on this, and I tried to find the most extreme examples.

And I know they're very emotive examples. And I can say that I don't take the position that the only reason why there's injustice in America or in society or in the world is because of racism.

I'm not saying that racism isn't even a thing. I'm saying prejudice definitely exists in the heart of man.

There's without question. But I'm simply saying that the definition, the paradigm that they're operating from, which is, it's the sole cause.

And in some cases, they're saying it's either the largest thing or the sole cause of, you know, socioeconomic disparities.

I just, I can't buy that. Of course, Joe Biden's laughably nonsensical warning to America that the greatest threat being posed against the health, prosperity and safety of Americans is white supremacy.

That's just, that's lunacy. And we're going to have you pick up on that when we return, because we have to go to our midway break right now.

Folks, keep in mind that this middle break is the longer break in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them to geographically localize

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and all of their programming to Lake City, Florida, and they do so with their own public service announcements.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. We'll be right back, right after these messages. Don't go away. I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

My friend, Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia, once again for the

G3 conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme,

Christ is supreme over all. I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including

John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and Virgil Walker.

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you

September 30th through October 2nd at G321. This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time, and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. We are excited to announce another new member of the

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Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Bhanu Gadi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

You saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

God has designed and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be pretty serious.

Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

God like the psalmist did. May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you. I'm Dr.

Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

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that's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants as well as radio stations, theological seminaries and various programs for unreached people groups.

With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how

God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally as well as locally.

To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth .org.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing is

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Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God. They go to various churches, schools and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

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today and purchase generously and mention Chris Arntzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

You will not regret that you did. Before we return to my discussion with Wes Carpenter and his book,

Woke Religion, Unmasking the False Gospel of Social Justice, we have some important announcements to make.

If you are a man in ministry leadership, if you are a pastor, an elder, and by the way,

I believe those are the same office, pastor and elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, whatever leadership position you hold as a man in the body of Christ, you are invited to attend the next

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon, Monday, September 27, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at the Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

I urge you to get to Carlisle, Pennsylvania that day in any way you can, plane, train, automobile, bus, parachute, any way that you could get there.

You are not going to regret that you made an extra effort to be present that day.

Our guest speaker is Dr. Conrad Mbewe, pastor of Kabwatha Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and founding chancellor of African Christian University.

He also happens to be Vodie Baucom's pastor. I believe Dr. Conrad Mbewe is the most powerful preacher alive on the planet

Earth. I am not exaggerating. I'm not using sinful flattery or hyperbole. This man is utterly remarkable, and not only are you going to be admitted into this event for free and have a free meal and enjoy the fun, the fellowship, the refreshment, and the edification of being there for free, you're going to leave there with a very heavy sack of brand new books that have been personally selected by me from many major publishers across the

United States and the United Kingdom that are all free of charge to you.

This event began in the 1990s through the urging of my precious late wife,

Julie. She, in essence, launched these luncheons, and there was one thing that she insisted upon, that there never be an admission fee and that there never be anything sold on the premises during the event, and that there never be a hidden agenda or ulterior motive behind treating the pastors to this time of rest, relaxation, edification, fun, and fellowship, and feasting.

It was all just to be purely a gift to men in ministry leadership, to thank them for their labors, because most of the time, and pastors will tell you this if they are invited to something, there's typically an ulterior motive behind it.

I make no fun -drive statements for Iron Troupe and Zion Radio while they're there.

I don't push people to advertise on my show while they're there. This is all just a treat to pastors, and if you want to be one of them, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line. We've got pastors coming from Texas, from North Carolina, from Virginia, from New York, both upstate

New York, New York City, and Long Island, New York, Maryland, all over Pennsylvania, and I'm sure that I'm missing some of the areas where men will be traveling from.

So if they can do it, you can do it, if you really want to be there, if you have nothing else that's extremely important on your schedule, please try to come.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line. Once again, that's

Monday, September 27th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, featuring

Dr. Conrad Mbewe of Kibwata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa. Many of you may recognize that name.

He has preached at the Strange Fire Conference, conducted and hosted by John McArthur.

He has preached at the G3 Conference that you've been hearing advertised throughout the show, and other major conferences across the

United States and the United Kingdom and other places. So please, try to be there if you can, absolutely free of charge.

Also folks, if you love this show, and you don't want to disappear from the airwaves,

I'm urging you, please go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

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So you can mail your checks there, made payable through Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. If you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with what we believe,

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I never want to do anything that is a hindrance or harm to the local pastor and the local church.

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Providing for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is obviously not a command of God in scripture. But if you're financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, if you have money collecting interest in the bank, if you have money that you can burn with recreational activities and trivial matters, please use some of that money to help us remain on the air if indeed you love the show.

Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, and click click to donate now.

Last but not least, if you are not a member of a Bible -believing, biblically faithful,

Christ -honoring church, no matter where on the planet Earth you live, I may be able to help you find a church.

I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches.

So if you are in that position of not having a biblically faithful church that you call your home, please send me an email to chrisharnsen at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line, whether it's for a permanent church home, or whether you're going on vacation somewhere and want a biblical church to visit, or if you have family, friends, loved ones without biblically sound churches, send me an email to chrisharnsen at gmail .com,

put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Wes Carpenter on woke religion, on masking the false gospel of social justice.

That's chrisharnsen at gmail .com, chrisharnsen at gmail .com, and Wes, if you could, pick up where you left off as you were delving deeper into the insanity and evil of this movement.

Thanks, Chris. You were picking up right where you were saying that, is there anything to recognize about the

Civil Rights Act, or even going back to chattel slavery, or those sorts of things that took place?

And I just want to be clear that the Bible teaches that prejudice, victimization, and oppression are sin, and God hates unbalanced weights, he hates partiality and injustice, and he calls, as you know, and your audience understands, he calls

Christians to liberate the oppressed, and to love our neighbors, and to show compassion to those who are suffering.

But I also want to be clear at the same time, the call isn't to be confused with wokeness or critical social justice, and only liberation can take place by the gospel, the power of God by salvation.

And when we look at the horrific history that you mentioned of ethnic prejudice in America, we, along with Scripture, sharply condemn it.

I mean, the Bible says, whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him shall be put to death in the book of Exodus.

And so when we look at disparities, and as it pertains to wealth and socioeconomics, and these calls of injustice, the problem with wokeness is it's an all -or -nothing paradigm that all disparities can be explained by discrimination, and everyone is in one of these two categories of oppressor or oppressed, and I think that's problematic.

I think as Christians, we can be more nuanced biblically, and it's equally problematic.

I think that systemic and institutional racism, as it claims, exists everywhere in America.

I think it'd be unlikely to say that, you know, someone like Barack Obama could become president if that's the case.

There's lots of other examples that we could provide. And having said all that, we certainly recognize, though, that all humans are fallen creatures, but not all humans create what they're saying is systemic and institutional systems of power that are discriminatory.

I think that's far too cynical and sinister of a system, and so I think we have to be balanced and truthful, because many, it seems, are led to believe that basically everywhere in society, human rights organization, religious institutional, you name it, rampant body, everything, laws, man, woman, child, is racist because of systemic and institutional racism, particularly because of whiteness or white privilege and everything that we've been discussing.

And I do admittedly say, well, of course racism exists, but not everywhere in the way understood by woke ideology, and the gospel combats racism.

And so everyone has biases, it's human nature, but not everyone has biases all the time, and I think that's where we have to draw the line in the sand, as if every conceivable thought and deed is purely motivated by sinister racist vendetta against African Americans.

I just not buying that, it's just too pessimistic, a hyper -pessimistic view of the world. And I think it helps when you provide that sort of biblical clarity that yes, sin is deceitfully wicked in the heart of man, and yes,

Christ was crucified on the cross according to the redemptive plan of history that God sovereignly orchestrated, his own son was murdered on the cross, and yet at the same time, the paradox is it was for the salvation of sinners, for the salvation of murderers and idolaters, and for you and for me, and for those who are racist, and for those who are sinners.

And so we have the gospel, and I think that's kind of, you know, where I wanted to pick back up and what you were getting at there,

Chris. What do you think? I agree with you. In fact, I wanted to have a listener question asked of you that really hinges on something that you said.

We have Christopher in western Suffolk County, New York, who says,

I have heard Chris Arnzen say on Iron Trump and Zion Radio that conservatives all too often say that there is no institutionalized and systemic racism in the

United States, because there is growing institutionalized and systemic racism here against white heterosexual males and Asians.

We are constantly repeating this idea that racism is not institutionalized here, thinking, just like the left does, that racism only means discrimination, oppression, and hatred of blacks and other racial minorities.

But the systemic and institutionalized racism against white heterosexual males and Asians is palpably obvious that it exists and it is going on the rise.

So you want to respond to that? Yes, yeah, that's a really good point and question there,

Christopher. Thanks for that. I think there are institutional injustices that are on the rise, that are pinpointed towards particular groups, and I think that's one of the dangers of this ideology, is it's constantly dividing people and grouping them according to some category, whether it be skin color or identity, politic, or sexual identification, etc.

I haven't personally experienced racism for being,

I don't know if I would say I'm an ethnic minority, there's different terms, but having an Asian descent or heritage.

I have seen cases, though, there's been reports where Asians are, there's disparities or prejudice against them with admissions to universities, with SATs and ACS admissions and things like that, to sort of make it more,

I guess, equitable, where they're literally discriminating against Asians who have higher scores so that they can have more other minorities, you know, accepted.

So I agree with that question and the person who thinks for that question.

I think that we need to look at that biblically, and again,

God doesn't like unequal weights, and so we need to call it out and say, look, you know, we aren't about institutional injustice at all.

We aren't about injustice as Christians. We're about God's perfect justice, um, recognizing that we can't, you know, we can't live up to God's standard, but in humble repentance, we can have forgiveness of sin, and the way that injustices in society are going to change,

I think, is with the gospel, not with some sort of theory or some sort of other ideology or even, you know, a law that can help.

Laws can help, but only if they're just laws. But when laws are prejudiced and unjust, then we're just going to repeat history and just have a different form of racism all over again.

Well, thank you so much, Christopher, and if you would please give me your full mailing address in western

Suffolk County, New York, because you have won a free copy of Woke Religion, Unmasking the

False Gospel of Social Justice by our guest Wes Carpenter, compliments of our friends at Ambassador International and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for biblebookservice .com, who will be shipping out these books to those in our audience who win them at no expense to us or to you.

So thanks a lot, Christopher. We have another listener, not Christopher, but Christian this time, not to say that Christopher is not a

Christian, but we have Christian in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and Christian wants to know, have you heard of any in the

Woke movement who are trying to disparage those who are lighter -skinned black people with the same kind of hatred as they do towards Caucasians?

The reason why I'm saying that is that throughout history, there has actually been bigotry by lighter -skinned blacks towards those of darker complexions, especially in the 19th century and years prior, but I was wondering if the reverse is taking place, to your knowledge, because they are quote -unquote whiter than the darker -skinned blacks.

Yeah, that's another good question. That's a tough one. I try to keep an eye on what's going on, and I haven't seen anything that was specifically geared towards a lighter -skinned or darker -skinned person.

That's not to say that it hasn't happened, at least on a big scale, but having said that,

I do know that this system of this ideology, this religion of Wokeness, it actually—and this is where it gets kind of contradictory—it doesn't care, on one hand, what your skin color is if you're against it.

Yeah, you're right. For instance, a black police officer who shoots and perhaps even kills a black criminal or a suspect of a crime, the black police officer will be treated with the same rhetoric as if he is a white supremacist, regardless of how dark his skin color is.

I mean, it's pure insanity. Right. Yeah, like I mentioned the

Uncle Tom thing earlier, and it's a grotesque system.

It's controlling knowledge, it's controlling language and words like we talked about earlier, and if you're not concessing this dogma, it doesn't really matter what skin color you have.

You're just—well, you're part of the problem, basically.

The thing that's so strange about this, it would seem that when

I talk about critical theory, a critical -minded person would see that there's been racism all over the world since history began post -fall.

I mean, I spent some time in Asia, and I hate to break it to everyone, but there's racism in Asia.

There's different groups among Asians. There's prejudice there, and that's all to say that racism and prejudice is within the heart.

In fact, in the Hispanic community, there is a lot of hatred against other

Hispanics because of ethnic origin. I have known people quite well, closely, personally, who were

Puerto Ricans who despised Mexicans and South Americans, who were

South and Central Americans who despised Puerto Ricans, who were

Cubans who despised Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, I mean, and really aggressively.

I could tell you some stories that—it's one of those situations where you don't know whether to laugh or cry that are so absurd, but I don't want to expose the people who said or were involved in these things.

But the white man is not the only one guilty of hatred against neighbor just because of skin color or ethnic origin or whatever.

Right, yep, yep. We tend to—and one of the reasons that I think people have pointed to, this critical theory ideology has been brewing for some time, and critical race theories like the 1980s came out of the

School of Law at Harvard, Kimberlé Crenshaw, but as social justice activism proceeded in advance and in a postmodern world, what happened,

I think, is that it was just a matter of time for this to come to a head. And we had

Ferguson and you have all these—you have George Floyd, you have these events that take place, and it's just like, boom, that was the moment in time.

And then everyone in secular society, and even Christians, are looking for an answer, and then it's like, oh, well, here's what the secular left academia says, and here's how it's being pumped out into the news media, and here's what the government's position on it is.

And so I think we have to be careful with that, because we already have the answer, and it's

Christianity, and the answer isn't to fuse some kind of system from the 20th century with Christianity.

And I just think that when we look at these ideas, ideas have consequences, and we just have to be careful.

But also at the same time, I get the sense from other Christians, when all this went on, it was just like—and it still goes on today—it's taboo to even talk about to some extent, and you just have to apologize to begin with, and then it's like, wait a minute, what am

I apologizing for? I understand as Christians, you weep with those who weep, you show sympathy for those who are going through a difficult time, and that sort of thing.

That doesn't mean you have to buy into a cult -like ideology. I think we have to be wise.

What do you think, Chris? I agree, and I just remembered something that you were saying before about how one of the reasons—just one of the many, many, many reasons—this is a false gospel and an ideology of evil and lunacy is that white people are supposed to experience and be ashamed of the guilt of being white, and yet being white is all we could ever be, and even if one were to try to assimilate with those of other skin colors and ethnic origins and adopt their ways and their practices and their speech patterns, they would be told that they were guilty of cultural appropriation.

So, it's like you can't escape. It is just sheer and utter insanity, and not only insanity, but it's satanic.

Utterly mind -blowing. We do have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who asks, how do you respond to someone who may even be a well -meaning

Christian but politically liberal? Who says that conservatives are always talking about the fact that the government is not intended to be in the business of taking care of the poor.

That is the church's job, but the reality is that the churches will never live up to that calling to take care of the poor, and that there are even churches that believe that their only obligation is to take care of the poor who are members of their congregations.

You don't have enough churches that are willing to really go the extra mile financially to feed and clothe and house the poor and help them get employment, etc.

So, how do you respond to these people who say that we are merely passing the buck of responsibility, and we don't really mean what we say, we don't walk where we talk when it comes to the government not having the responsibility to feed and take care of those less fortunate than us?

Yeah, yeah, that's a really good one. I appreciate the question. Yeah, I think personally

I could do a much better job with being the hands and feet and taking care of the poor.

But I do want to set some boundaries, kind of, to help frame an answer here. So, first, we do live in a fallen world, and it's full of sin, and poverty is a result of sin, whereas in the

Garden before the Fall, Adam had everything he needed.

God provided a helper for him. They weren't in need, and it was good in how

God intended, and then there was sin. And then, fast forward, in the new heavens and new earth, there also won't be any poverty, and when the church is glorified with Christ, everyone's needs will be fully met and fully satisfied in the new heavens and new earth.

Now, that doesn't mean that here and now that we don't preach a prosperity gospel.

If you believe this, and you're like a Joelstein, if you put your mind to it, you can have billions of dollars.

But to get right at the question, well, could the church do more? I think, of course, we can always do more by God's grace and help.

But on the other hand, to kind of help frame the context, is the answer, well, let's say the government has complete autonomy and control over all financial systems, like communism or something of that nature, and I think no.

And so, where we are right now in Western civilization in America, and looking at how can we reform what we have right now within the church, and then also thinking biblically about the role of the church and the government as it relates to the poor, ultimately, you know, the goal of Christianity, while it is in some sense, you know, in the social sense of meeting physical needs,

Jesus did say, you know, the poor you will always have with you. But at the same time, the woman who was poor, who put just a might into, you know, the offering, basically, he said she gave out of her poverty, she gave everything she had, she gave more than the rich.

And so, there is much to do in terms of helping people's physical needs as it relates to poverty.

I don't think the answer is give all the reins to the government, let them take care of it. I don't think that's the answer. The answer is never coveting the neighbor's goods and stealing from your neighbor, which is what many of the leftist government policies are doing.

You can never justify that, no matter how horrible a situation may be.

And none of these people are going to be happy if I were to somehow break into their home. When I say these people,

I mean like Joe Biden, or Kamala Harris, or Schumer, or any of these people are going to be pleased if I happen to be down in the grips of poverty, they're not going to be happy if I break into their homes and successfully steal great amounts of wealth for them, or do it through a cyber crime, or rip them off and pay their bank accounts.

And in many ways, the current form of government does facilitate a deeper dependence, and in a certain sense, perpetuates poverty.

In my opinion, and this kind of goes a little bit down a rabbit trail, but just to kind of fully answer the question, the reason why

I don't think the government is the answer is because the government does not promote what you see in the book of Proverbs as the wisdom for building wealth, the wisdom of how to achieve financial independence.

Being dependent upon the government for food stamps and so on and so forth, you're basically going to continue to be in poverty.

Now that doesn't mean that there isn't a place for helping people that are going through a difficult time, there are any number of circumstances, but again, like you said,

I just think that the government policies tend to they're not the right answer and tend to make things worse.

And so that actually hits on another point that the church could help with teaching about finances, personal finance, and getting out of poverty.

How do you get out of debt? Debt is a huge epidemic problem in this country. So yeah, very good question.

And we have to go to our final break. It's a lot briefer than the other breaks. If you have a question, send it in immediately to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

We'll be right back with Wes Carpenter right after these messages. Hello, dear ones.

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That's lindberghbaptist .org. Welcome back. Wes, did you complete your thought before we went to the break?

We do have a listener question waiting for you. Oh yeah, that was, you know, basically it, you know,

God owns a cat on a hill. Okay, we have Mike from Monroe, New York.

We see a horde of Christian churches surrendering to wokeness and now

COVID -ness. Both are, in my opinion, satanic plots to further assault the truth of the gospel and render our witness more odious than it already is to the ungodly and unbelieving world.

However, what troubles me most are those who profess Reformed theology and who are also finding ways to cooperate with the woke heresy and appease the wicked.

Can our brother share any thoughts on wokeness and the effect it is having on the Reformed churches of our day?

Yeah, I can definitely sympathize with that question, and I think that, you know, we are in it.

We're in a pivotal point in history, particularly in the church, and we do need to stand firm against woke social justice and all forms in the government, in the church.

We need to stand also against the tyrannical nature of it, the authoritarian nature of it, and as that is, you know, now morphed into what we're experiencing now with, you know, the mandates with, you know, the vaccine and so on and so forth.

Drayner said we're living under pretty totalitarian conditions, and I think, you know,

I have to agree with him that the social atomization, there's just widespread loneliness, the rise of ideology, even a loss of faith in institutions.

I think as the church, as the Reformed church, we have to believe the gospel of Christ crucified and not be ashamed of it.

We're not. I think there's sort of a sentiment of the church is weak right now, but the gates of hell are not going to prevail against the church universal, and Christ is on the throne.

God is sovereign. Christ is raised from the dead, and so we can take heart, you know? Even in prior generations, we look at the history of the church and regimes and tyranny and persecution that people faced.

You know, even that goes on all over the world right now, and we're kind of getting a dose of it, a step towards that potentially, and so I think we just trust

God in this spiritual battle. He's sovereign. He's going to only do right, and so that's basically what

I would say. Well, thank you, Mike in Monroe, New York. Make sure that you give us your mailing address in Monroe so that you can receive a free copy of Woke Religion, Unmasking the

False Gospel of Social Justice by Wes Carpenter, and that also goes for all of the other listeners who sent in questions today.

Make sure you send in your mailing address so that CVBBS, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, can ship those free books out to you, and once again, we want to thank

Ambassador International for providing the books. I want you to have about three minutes,

Wes, to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this subject.

Well, again, I just want to start by saying I really appreciate it, Chris, for having me on and for giving me the opportunity just to speak.

I just want to share the truth, and I just want to preach Christ, and so what

I would say in closing is just trusting

God who orchestrates all things according to counsel's will, and as we sojourn here, we don't need to be woke.

We're already wakened by the Spirit of God. We're not stained by sin of prejudice and partiality and whiteness and so on.

We're washed by the blood of Jesus as Christians, and He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

We can have salvation in Christ. There's no condemnation. We don't need to feel guilt or shame, and along with that, we can stand against tyranny and a spiritual war.

We can take up the whole armor of God, and God has equipped us with the shield of faith and the sword of the

Spirit, so it's time to take out the sword of the Spirit and to weld the sword, to be equipped, and to, you know, fight the good fight of faith and press on, because in the end, we win.

Christ is going to return, and we'll, as with the Church, rule and reign with Christ, and there will be no more sin and shame and suffering.

There won't be more wokeness and critical race theory, and so, you know, the last thing

I would say is that as we, you know, hasten the day, come

Lord Jesus, as eternal glory draws near, we long for Jesus Christ, not power systems.

We await, even in the midst of the pandemic and, you know, government, tyrannical regimes all over the world and so on, we await the vindication of perfect justice and the final justice, not equity per se, but our identity is in Christ, and it's not in social groups.

We're imputed with Christ's righteousness, not our nation's past. Our citizenship is in heaven, not a utopian society, and we're at the mercy of God's providence, not privilege.

We're covered in his righteous robes, and not guilt of whiteness.

We're washed by the precious blood of the Lamb. We're not stained, and so believe the

Word of God, not wokeness, and we, you know, we herald the true gospel of Jesus Christ, not the false gospel of woke social justice.

We preach Christ crucified, not woke religion. We're not yoked to wokeness or woke, you know, evangelicalism.

We're unworthy slaves of Jesus Christ, and so we're not going to be woke, because we're awakened by God's power.

We don't confess those creeds, because we're not going to deny our master. We're not going to bow the knee.

We only bow to the Lord Jesus Christ. And we're out of time, brother. Just want to make sure that our listeners remember, if you want to purchase this book,

Woke Religion, by Wes Carpenter, go to cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, and ask for Woke Religion, that was published by Ambassador International and authored by Wes Carpenter.

That's cvbbs .com. Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arns and the

Nine Trap and Zion Radio. I want to thank Wes for being such an extraordinary guest today. I want to thank all of our listeners, especially those who took the time to write.

I want you all to have a safe and blessed and restful and refreshing and Christ -honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater Savior than you are a sinner.