Matthew 24 part 3

All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Hallelujah, holla back. Boom. My name is Jeff Rice. I'm one of the pastors of Covenant Reform Baptist Church. We meet here in Tallahoma, Tennessee also have a YouTube channel that this stream will be airing on live as well as my Facebook and as well as the Open Earth theology Facebook but we are Open Earth Theology.

And again, I have a YouTube channel called My Two Cents with Jeff Rice, please Click on that check it out. Subscribe like hit some bells. Yeah, is that what I sound like. Oh my lord. All right, so I'm gonna turn it over to my brother Brayden.

Right introduce yourself. Yeah, I'm.

Brayden Patterson, I'm so privileged and blessed to be the pastor of Valley Baptist Church in Hagerman, Idaho. If you live in the area, I'd invite you to come to church this Sunday. I'll be preaching on Ruth chapter 2.

We'll just be continuing on in that blessed text. I also am a part of a YouTube channel called reformed ex-mormon and I absolutely love being able to participate here on Thursday nights Lord willing on open air theology on that note perhaps.

Take it away. We got a visitor tonight. Oh, yeah. I know I've been on sabbatical. So still it's still on one, right? Hi, my name is a pastor haps out of the pastor taught at us and I am the pastor of all branch ministries and one of the co-hosts of open air theology and the host of R &B studios, and I'm so glad to be back.

Being gone for a month and a half and I think I'm gonna be really gonna be gone for like two months, you know. It's just been staying off the social media and everything but glad to be here.

Good to have you man. Come back. So as y 'all can tell the the debate did not come through when it comes, you know, like I got a. So when it comes to the stream yard, whatever I have to have a plan before I can air it so people can.

Get a.

You know for those that follow us where they can be notified that we're having something and if I did and if I do it too Late people don't really know that we're having anything. So Come the night before I have to have it down and so we didn't have anything in the in the bag.

So we just moved on to Matthew 24 so this is part three and hopefully we'll be able to get some serious inquires that won't that. That are Mormon and LDS wherever you want to call them that want to have debate but until then we're just going to continue.

Going verse by verse and I don't know if y 'all watched it last week on how I destroyed Brayden.

Not even not even. If I just say something on the LDS stuff real quick. Yeah, go ahead. We did we did have a one guy reach out and want to do it. But by the time in the way that it worked out. We had to say to hold off on it and I think his schedule would have actually conflicted with tonight.

So hopefully in the future we'll have him back. It's a guy that I've debated in the past and so we are debating. Talking if we want to even have him on because it's somebody I've debated already and so that that was all right Mormon so we'll keep on playing those things out.

Hopefully we'll like you said, hopefully we'll get somebody that's LDS on here.

Whether it be him or somebody else. And I've been working on the LDS channel with some other guys yeah, and so just trying to build a. You know a diet. Some dialogue with them. Yeah know that that I don't bite because I don't got front teeth.

The other two guys are the ones you gotta look out for. They got full set of teeth ready to go. But no, no really nice people, but there's some Vicious ones on there, you know, yeah.

Yeah, the interaction has been pretty pretty bad. So I didn't want to get my You know because every time I'd comment it would it would come up as open-air theology. But whenever I try to message them, it was coming in as my you know, my name.

And I just didn't want um, you know to be honest with you I didn't want that smoke on my on my Facebook page. I just don't have time to deal with it on my personal page. You know, they're on my personal page.

Yeah. And I was like man forget that you only saw what one go back to my earlier post.

Going at it. It's wild. Yeah. Yeah.

Again, I didn't want the smoke on my personal page. I don't mind it on the on the group page. But you know, it is what it is.

Funny because that post was 17 weeks ago and then You guys are just wanting attention from this and I was like.

17 weeks ago. Everybody was blaming me for shooting. I know the Bible. I was like, I don't even have a gun.

No, that was me that was no doubt. I destroyed pages that talk about idols. Yeah, I pointed right at Nate. Was it?

What's that that what's the one that when they come to your door? Just read this is it neat. Nephi Nephi? Oh Nephi. Yeah, they always open up to Nephi to me.

First when I shoot for it, you know, they kept saying that you know stuff like well If you're gonna shoot it, you might as well read it and I'm like, well the guy that shot it read it.

Little too much. I know better than most of them. Yeah, I got about five of them here. Yeah, I got about I got about 30 behind me. And they make good shooting material so.

So.

All right. So let's get into it. So Again, we're in Matthew 24. I'm coming at this with a preterist view. I believe that all of Matthew 24 not 25, but all of Matthew 24 is Past event that it's speaking about something that happened in our past.

But it would have been in their future Context of Jesus and his disciples it would have been in their future, but it was our past. Brayden comes at it as a partial preterist as well on some of it. But not all of it and I don't know exactly where Hap stands on Matthew 24.

Matt.

Full preterist.

Full preterist on Matthew 24, it's not bad. Right, you know like if you and I was trying to say this last week Every Christian is the preterist if you believe in the first coming of Jesus Christ. You believe that that that's already happened.

Well, that was a prophecy. So it would have been in a It would have been in the future of those that was prophesied to it happened. It's in our past. So if you believe that in the first coming of Jesus is death barren resurrection you are in fact a preterist if you hold to a a millennial Perspective whether it's pre post or all.

You believe in a future coming of Jesus and so you can call yourself a preterist. You do not have to say partial as long as you're saying that you hold to a Future millennial or as all male or post male we would say that the millennium is actually taking place now.

And so, you know as long as you hold to Pre post or all you're not a full preterist period deny one of those then you're you're.

You're in danger. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think I'm just more. You know, I I'm I'm open I'm open and I want to come at these scriptures with humility because there's a chance that I could be reading it wrong or just with this, you know reading through the filter of a Partial preterist, you know, and so I'm really open.

I've been like I was telling you guys with my brother Seth looking at from maybe the idealist perspective and. But still this is the text right here that I'm stuck on. You know, that's Matthew 24 right here.

I.

24 has already happened, but. Yeah, I think it's.

Repetitive. I can't even say now.

Recapitulatory and nature Tory. Yeah Capitulatory so last week I heard us Bicker with each other on on verse 3 at the end of verse 3. Well, I'll read verse 3 it says and as he said on the Mount of Olives This is Jesus the disciples came to him privately saying tell us when will these things be?

What will be the sign of your coming in the end of the age? So that these things what were these that when were these things how do we read that again? Tell us when will these things be that these things would have been?

The temple being destroyed. And if you go back to chapter 23, it's it's it's Jesus sending the Pharisees and scribes prophets that they are going to prophets and scribes that they're going to kill and crucify and take before the courts and then the sign of his coming.

I would say that as speaking about us the ushering in of a of a of the Of the kingdom of God, but but the way that acts words it is there. Will you at this time restore Jerusalem? Is that how it's how it worded it?

Do you remember?

Are you right now restoring? I think it's the kingdom that they call it an axe. Yeah, let me turn to it real quick. Actually, it's just that verse it says. And so when they had to come together They were asking him saying Lord a time that you are restoring the kingdom.

To acts acts. One also says that doesn't. Yeah. Yeah, but that's what we were actually in chapter 6.

Yeah, so so when they're asking him, what will be the sign of your coming? I think that's what they're speaking about him coming in as a king. They're not thinking about him dying. Being buried raising from the dead going to the father and coming back again.

They're not they're not it. I mean they're in his presence asking for his presence. And so like you really have to kind of wade through the water here. And then it says and and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?

So right here. It tells us the end of the age this that this word for age is a on.

Now.

Braden argue that the word end here is a different Greek word than the other words for in that we have In the in the context so in verse 6 verse 13 and verse 14 We have the words in so in verse 6 it says.

And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed for it for this must take place. But the end is not yet, so that Greek word for in there is teleos and Also in verse 13, but he who endures to the end will be saved.

That word end is tell it. I mean, I teach not teleos. We look at again. I lost my page. Okay. Here it is. Do you know it?

I'm looking it up right now. So that word it's.

It's not teleos. It's teos teos. Is it teos? I'm saying.

Tell us.

Yes, tell us tell us.

All right.

So and then so verse 13 is telos and then in verse 14 is telos and verse 14 says. And this gospel of the kingdom Must be proclaimed through all the world as a testimony to all nations and then the end telos Will come.

And so his argument is. Braden correct me if I'm wrong Braden. That because the Greek word here is not the same as the Greek word of the end in verse 3. That it's not speaking about the same thing. Is that correct?

I.

Think I think that You are correct. And when I'm saying that I think that what they're thinking is That the age is happening at the destruction of the temple. I think that What Christ establishes for us in other portions of Scripture is is the two-age model and so I think what Christ is doing in here is correcting their thinking on saying that the Destruction of the temple is is the end of all things.

He's he's saying that the ends gonna happen. But there's going to be stuff that takes place after it. The the end is the temple destroying but the end of the age the consummation of the age is something different is.

So.

So what would be the antecedent to verse 6 where it says the end is not yet. It would be it'd be verse 3. Yeah, the verse 3. Exactly. I'm speaking of the age. Yep. And so the in chapter 3, I mean verse 13 and 14 the same, correct?

Yeah, they're all speaking of the same end and the end there is the end of the age.

Yeah.

So my problem is is I don't see how you can say that it's not speaking about the end of the age whenever All three of these verses are pointing to one verse right end of the age verse 3.

So you so what my thinking on it though is is that the the Jewish people have the mindset that okay? If if Christ is talking about the end of the king of the temple the temple is going to be destroyed that must mean that The kingdom is now being given to the Jewish nation and it's the end of the world and this is going to be Eternal state.

Messiah sitting on the throne of David's there right? We would say that those things.

Didn't I would have saw it as a physical like I don't think that. Yeah I don't think they were thinking eternal like whenever the rich young ruler asked asked Jesus about Eternal life. He wasn't thinking about dying and going to be with with God in heaven and living forever.

He was thinking about living on earth with his possessions forever. Also. Yeah, also, you know.

The the Jews had it all wrong and how the Messiah would come and how the kingdom would come they had it all all backwards.

Yeah, that's what was what acts chapter 1 verse 6 was talking about. They were thinking of him coming in as a king and restoring the kingdoms to Israel. Yeah, and he had something totally different in mind, which was the kingdom of heaven the new covenant, right?

Yeah.

And I think that oh, i'm sorry.

No, you're good.

I was just going to say to continue on with that is that the jews were expecting and thinking of something in their tradition. And their mindset and they were wrong in that. And so what I think is taking place is christ is using a different word for end in there.

To differentiate from what their question is that the consummation because that word consummation carries a marriage language to it. And then there's antecedent to a marriage example. Uh in direct reference to what christ has given that the disciples would be I think is alluding to would be from chapter 22 verses 1 through.

20 I believe somewhere in that ballpark, but shouldn't the end that he's speaking of be identified? Because yeah, I think it will. Verse 6. It's not verse 7. I mean in verse 13, it's not. But in verse 14, he says then the end will come.

Really the only end pointing to that has to be The end in verse 3 which is the end of the age. Then the end of the age will come.

The end of what age. The judaic age. Exactly. And so that that's what I just wanted to say. You know all when you go all throughout scripture and we got to read. Uh, um. Uh, let scripture speak for itself when whenever there's this apocalyptic language like a name one isaiah 34.

Isaiah, I mean, um, ezekiel 36. Deuteronomy 10 deuteronomy 4 I mean. It's all local. It's not talking globally. All right, and it's always local. All right, and it's always addressing either israel or uh another nation and so.

Come and when it's I mean all this language and we're going to be in uh, 24 29 tonight, right?

I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're just. Are we creeping? Yeah so far on every one of them. We've argued over this to begin with. Okay, because I was just.

Because I was just studying on uh on 29. Yeah, but I I do got to say that that when we read it in context. You see the same Apocalyptic language throughout all the prophets through the the torah and the the Promises and the curses.

I mean the blessings and the curses you see all this the same type of language. And I think that's where i'm stuck at right here when I come to. You know. Re-evaluate the way i'm looking, you know, like because i'm always looking at it through the predator's eyes.

And I really want to get a full view. Uh, not only look at it from uh historic. You know, like, you know, I was saying uh idealist, you know preterist.

But I don't think there's any way that you can look at matthew 24. I don't think so either outside of outside of uh, preterist eyes because of the near demonstratives. You when you see these things when you are handed over.

I completely agree tell us so so in my in my eyes will be in my you know. When I when I would I would say that I have an idealist reading of the majority of 24. And I I would still hold that even in these verses.

I still have an idealist perspective because idealist a modified idealist perspective carries the weight of a Eclectic view. So it can still say something with preterist and it can still say something as yet future in different portions of texts.

And so what you just made mention of you when you see these things. Escape when you see these things flee. Hope that your day isn't on the sabbath. Hope your day isn't when you're nursing. Hope your day is not when you're pregnant.

Those things i'm absolutely saying are preterist. But I think when we get especially in verse 29 and on we're going to start seeing that that divide of of my.

Understanding compared to. All right. All right. So one question and then we'll move on. Yeah. Verse 14 When it says then the end will come you're saying that that's not the end of the age.

I'm saying that I think that the jews think that that is the end of the age and I think what christ is doing in here is establishing that. That that's the end of the judicial age. But that's a part of the entirety of the redemptive historical work of christ.

So are we living in the judaic age? No, that's done.

You know, it really stands out to me. I know it really you know, it stands out to me in 14. What's that? And he says in this gospel of the kingdom. And this gospel of the kingdom right here. And uh, he says in this this gospel the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all.

Is that is that in the. Could you check that in the greek right there the nations? Is that ethnos?

I'm, looking at it right now. Yeah.

It's speaking about the ethnos the gentile nations. Yeah, uh the word for whole world there's oikomene. It means the inhabited earth. It's not talking about the cosmo. This is the only place in matthew where that word comes up.

You know, it's the only place where he uses that word which ethno that word for for nations is almost always utilized in the way Of gentiles, which is pretty ethnic implicit. Yeah, it's pretty implicit when we look at freaking uh revelation chapter 20 verses 1 through 6 that talks about that.

The the satan will no longer be able to deceive the ethnos the nations the gentile world, right? And what do we have today? I'm a gentile in idaho in the united states believing in christ. Can I say baby?

Baby, we hear fulfillment. Like we're fulfillment of matthew.

Absolutely. All right, so We'll move past that. I mean, you know, like I I still want to harp on it, but we'll move past it for the sake of time.

I really think that if we get into verse 36 you'll start understanding kind of what i'm getting at because I don't want. Well i'm excited about that because.

36 I do believe I got a straightforward answer for you, buddy. I'm super excited. I got a pretty straightforward answer for 36 too.

So, all right.

So but but I do want to touch back over What we ended at last week on the coming of christ. So, um, I think it was verse 27. For as lightning comes from the because I believe it goes well with the context of what we're about to read.

So I don't want to read it. I don't want to read 29 through 31 without having 27 in our mind as well. Um, so. For as lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west so will be the coming of the son of man.

Wherever the corpses gather, they're the vultures. I mean where the corpse corpse is corpses is excuse me. Uh there the vultures will be gathered. Again in some translations use the word eagles instead of vultures.

This could be referring to the roman army. It could actually be referring to actual eagles or actual vultures. The roman armies were called the eagles. Really to me I don't think it really matters there but as far as Jesus coming.

For as the lightning comes as from the east and shines as far as the west. So will be the coming of the son of man. And so this speaking of jesus coming.

Um.

And I gave uh several uh different verses uh concerning this coming you. Do you remember me speaking about this coming? From matthew.

Hey, could I say something real fast? Yeah, go ahead. You know, I just I something just cracked me out right now. You know, I can't help it. But you know I know a lot of people out there that are that are dispensational and they're you know, they're into the.

Oh like that and I can just totally I can totally see somebody right now going eagles eagles See in revelation philadelphia philadelphia eagles. Don't you get it? Oh, no, that's a fact dude. It's there guys.

It's there.

Yeah, I think I said that last week too. I was like, hey eagles. That means we are in the united states. We're written here in matthew 24 revelation. The seven churches philadelphia. Boom.

Right.

Yeah, so right here we need to vote trump back into office. He's the seventh trumpet.

Trump pence. Yes trump pence. I've heard that i've actually been in a bible study. I've heard that it's actually heard that up in.

Idaho actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So right here is going to feed in to what we see coming. Um in verse 30 and 31, but I just want to kind of Touch base what I said last week about this coming and and and and Matthew chapter 10 verse 28.

No, no, excuse me. Yeah, verse 23. Jesus jesus speaking to his disciples his apostles when he sent them out to witness. When they persecute you from town to town flee. For I say to you speaking to his disciples.

You will not have gone to all the towns of israel before the son of man comes.

Hmm.

Right. So right here. It's saying that he's going to come before. They're able to go through all the towns of israel and then. Chapter 16 verse 27 For the son of man is going to come with his angels and the glory of his father.

Then he will repay each one according to what he has done. Right here verse 28 truly I say to you his disciples There will. There are some of uh, hold on I say to you there are some standing here in his presence Who will not taste death until they see the son of man coming in his kingdom?

And right here we're entering in this passage of scripture from 27 Forward to what this is going to look like. So if someone won't I can read from verse 27 to 31 and then we can come back and break it down.

But just to get it in the context I can read it in verse 27 to 31. Yeah.

It says.

For just as lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west. So shall the coming of the son of man be. Wherever the corpse is there the vultures will gather. But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be dark and the sun will.

The moon will not give its light and the stars from Will fall from the sky and the powers of heaven will be shaken. And then the sign of the son of man will appear in the sky and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

And they will see the son of man coming in the clouds of the sky with great with power and great glory. He will send forth his angels with a trumpet a great trumpet. And they will gather his elect from the four winds from one end of the sky to the other.

All right.

What's your thoughts haps?

Again, um.

What has this happened?

Yeah, man, this has happened. So I mean This is the same exact language that is given in isaiah Ezekiel and it's always local and it's always it's always the same judgment language almost verbatim. You know and it's it's the same thing, you know the the here the.

Uh.

What's really strike it hits me is immediately after the there's that definite article the tribulation. Like it says in revelation 1 9, you know, I john and partner with you in the tribulation and the kingdom.

All right. Of those days the sun will be dark and this is all the same language in isaiah in ezekiel. You know deuteronomy actually when deuteronomy I think it's a uh, uh deuteronomy 10. Oh, you know, you got revelation 6 deuteronomy 10 and it's always pointing towards jerusalem.

You know. It's the same thing. So I don't know, you know to be honest It um, because remember i'm torn right now.

You know, so that's why I asked you. Um, is this. Is this still a type of.

Recapitulation, you know as it was as we're reading through the scriptures.

Well, the the language should be very familiar because you see the same language in the old testament. Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah. Oh, yeah, but but the event that I the the event that's been explained here Is an event that that has happened already in our past?

But it was it would have been in the future. Yeah in the context here and so I I don't see any Recapitulation like what has happened then is going to happen the same way now. We can use this verse or this portion of scripture to prove that it's going to happen in our future.

No, when we read the scripture, I just think we have to say yeah, I mean it's happened.

Well, you know, but people can also say well wasn't that. I mean, I know that's how a full preterist would come at it. Well, that was the second coming.

Well, no because uh. But the context of chapter three tells you it wasn't the second coming because they're I mean not chapter three, excuse me chapter 24 Verse three because they asking those three questions.

When will these things be speaking of the destruction of the temple and them being persecuted? What will be the sign of your coming right here speaking of the parousia his presence and the end of the age?

He was with them bodily his presence was with them and they're asking for his presence. Now, you know this as well as I did before the holy spirit came. They didn't understand anything concerning his death burial resurrection in the kingdom.

Like like he would preach it to him and they just would not get it. And so they're asking for uh his presence meaning him coming in uh, like like david did in the old testament when he was a Crowned king restoring the kingdom.

That they want him to ride in like david to restore david's crown. So the presence that they're speaking of is that.

I think that that's still what a full preterist would would argue though. Is that yeah, I think that's the second coming uh was in 70 a .d that that that Event was christ riding in on the horse. That that event is therefore showing the presence of christ.

That that event fulfills Completely the the mandates and the requirements of the second coming. And that's the I think that's the the one issue. I sometimes have yeah with Draw that line. I don't know where to draw that line.

That's what they.

Yeah, well just because the preterist is I mean there's a lot of places where a full preterist is right. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, that doesn't mean their host schema is right for sure.

But I guess what i'm saying is is I have and I think this is something that can be accused to every Interpretation, um method that we we imply whether it be a historicist a futurist idealist or a preterist.

Is where is that line drawn? Right where?

Where.

Because the the full preterist is applying a lot of the same Harmoneutical principles and they're coming to the conclusions that are outside of orthodoxy that violate other portions of scripture. But in their mind they're saying nope i'm being consistent applying these things always to 70 a .d.

And that's their line that they have drawn right. And I came to apply the resurrection of the dead to 70 a .d.

Yeah, I I agree. Jesus was raised. I agree with that bodily.

He was raised bodily. You and I are going to be raised bodily last day full a full preterist. Would say 70 a .d was the resurrection. Yeah, I know they would but they wouldn't say that it happened. Uh wasn't physical.

Uh, well, they would. Okay because there wasn't a physical reservation.

Right. Well, that's that's the hard part with idealism too. Is that like that's what a lot of Jehovah witnesses will hold to as some form of idealism then the thought of christ didn't resurrect from the dead physically that he Resurrected spiritually only and that they just kind of his body fizzed away in the grave, right?

Let me just apply the spirituality to this text. And so like there's dangers that are inside each one of these Harmonetical principles that we apply to the text if we take it too far, right. If we if we start, of course.

That's why you have to have you know more than just again I would say i'm preterist on matthew 24 and a whole lot of revelation that doesn't speak about his second coming because again, I believe in a a literal Second coming jesus's resurrected body will touch ground In our future.

Yeah, and at that time, uh The resurrection of the dead will take place the separation of the sheeps and the goats.

Yeah, matthew 25 is a very clear text on the second coming right. Like that's correct. That's for me my go-to chapter for when I want to see about second coming type language is matthew chapter 25 for sure.

I'm excited for the later on in this chapter though about where I absolutely love you guys. I'm, so excited to be going through this chapter. Yeah, man.

I mean like Again a big thing was it for me when it comes to this because I know we have some disagreements I know that me and you. We can pick on each other about it, but they can see that we love each other.

Yeah, and the next week or you're not gonna be on next week. I don't think. No, but whatever it is that you are back on and we're doing something else like hey.

You know what? I've had people tell me. I've had people tell. I'm not joking, dude. Oh, you're not a post-moliling. Uh, well, you know theonomous post-molting animus anymore. Now I was like no and then well, you got to step down as a pastor then and I was like why?

And they're like, oh because your eschatology changed and I was like.

You know i'm yeah.

What's what's your point, dude?

Again, we need those t-shirts. Eschatology should be fun. Eschatology should be fun. I mean, you know, I like merch.

No, I I like uh, I I like stepping out of that. Um, uh, um, I I I got this. You know like that that whole thing like I I got this Instead of I get it. Because you know, I i'm getting it Instead of I got it because then my my feet are planted in and I got a death grip on my eschatology and I think that we we need to Again approach this with humility and stuff like that.

I'm not talking like dispensationalism, but you know, you can just toss that one out but um.

One of them will come on too. But oh.

God bless him, you know, but uh, you know my brother get this so last night, you know, just uh, you know I'm, just tell you guys this last night. We were uh, you know got some younger guys in there and everything and they were they came out of dispensationalism and.

Same thing that happened to me. Same thing happened to my brother. My brother has this elder in his church and he left calvary chapel. And my brother came over to this guy one of our elders Rob came over to his house for a party and he had his last church there.

All right and my brother sits down just graduated westminster and everything and and these these these uh, Calvary, uh crackers came around they sat down by him and they started asking him. Uh about his eschatology and stuff like that and knowing that my brother isn't a dispensational.