Matthew 24 part 3

All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are live Hallelujah, holla back.

Boom. My name is Jeff Rice I'm one of the pastors of Covenant Reform Baptist Church.

We meet here in Tallahoma, Tennessee also have a YouTube channel that this stream will be airing on live as well as my

Facebook and as well as the Open Earth theology Facebook but we are

Open Earth Theology. And again, I have a YouTube channel called My Two Cents with Jeff Rice, please

Click on that check it out. Subscribe like hit some bells Yeah, is that what

I sound like oh my lord All right, so I'm gonna turn it over to my brother

Brayden Brayden introduce yourself. Yeah, I'm Brayden Patterson, I'm so privileged and blessed to be the pastor of Valley Baptist Church in Hagerman, Idaho If you live in the area,

I'd invite you to come to church this Sunday. I'll be preaching on Ruth chapter 2 We'll just be continuing on in that blessed text

I also am a part of a YouTube channel called reformed ex -mormon and I absolutely love being able to participate here on Thursday nights

Lord willing on open air theology on that note pass Take it away. We got a visitor tonight.

Oh I know I've been on sabbatical. So still it's still on one right?

But hi my name is a pastor haps out of the pastor taught at us and I am the pastor of all branch ministries and one of the co -hosts of open air theology and the host of R &B studios, and I'm so glad to be back

Being gone for a month and a half and I think I'm gonna be really gonna be gone for like two months, you know

And just been staying off the social media and everything but glad to be here Good to have you man.

Come back So as y 'all can tell the the debate did not come through when it comes, you know, like I got a

So when it comes to the stream yard, whatever I have to have a plan before I can air it so people can get a

You know for those that follow us where they can be notified that we're having something and if I did if I do it too late

People don't really know that we're having anything. So Come the night before I have to have it down and so we didn't have anything in the in the bag

So we just moved on to Matthew 24 so this is part three and hopefully we'll be able to get some serious inquirers that won't that that are

Mormon and LDS, whatever you want to call them that want to have debate but until then we're just going to continue

Going verse by verse and I don't know if y 'all watched it last week on how I destroyed

Brayden Not even You mind if I just say something on the

LDS stuff real quick. Yeah, go ahead We did have a one guy reach out and want to do it But by the time in the way that it worked out

We had to say to hold off on it and I think his schedule would have actually conflicted with tonight So hopefully in the future.

We'll have him back It's a guy that I've debated in the past And so we are debating to talking if we want to even have him on because it's somebody

I've debated already And so that that was all right formed ex -mormon. So we'll keep on playing those things out

Hopefully we'll like you said, hopefully we'll get somebody that's LDS on here whether it be him or somebody else And I've been working on the

LDS channel with some other guys, yeah, and so just trying to build

You know a diet some dialogue with them. Yeah know that that I don't bite because I don't got front teeth

So the other two guys are the ones you gotta look out for they got full set of teeth ready to go But no, no really nice people, but there's some

Vicious ones on there, you know. Yeah Yeah, the interaction has been pretty pretty bad so I didn't want to get my

You know because every time I'd comment it would it would come up as open -air theology But whenever I try to message them it was coming in as my you know, my name

And I just didn't want I'm you know, to be honest with you I didn't want that smoke on my on my Facebook page.

I just don't have time to deal with it on my personal page They're on my personal page, yeah

And I was like man, forget that you only saw what one go back to my earlier post

Going at it. It's wild Yeah Again, I didn't want the smoke on my personal page.

I don't mind it on the on the group page, but you know It is what it is

Funny because that post was 17 weeks ago. And then I know you guys are just wanting attention from this

Weeks ago, everybody was blaming me for shooting. I know the Bible. I was like, I don't even have a gun

No, that was me that was no I destroyed pages that talk about idols.

Yeah, I pointed right at Nate was it What's that that what's the one that when they come to your door they're always just read this is it neat Nephi Nephi Nephi Nephi.

Yeah, they always open up to Nephi to me Shoot for it. Yeah. Yeah, they kept saying that you know stuff like well, if you're gonna shoot it

You might as well read it and I'm like, well the guy that shot it read it Little too much.

I know better than most of them. I got about five of them here Yeah, I got about I got about 30 behind me

And they make good shooting material so So All right.

So let's get into it. So Again, we're in Matthew 24. I'm coming at this with a preterist view

I believe that all of Matthew 24 not 25, but all of Matthew 24 is

Past event that it's speaking about something that happened in our past But it would have been in their future

The context of Jesus and his disciples it would have been in their future, but it was our past Braden comes at it as a partial preterist as well on some of it

But not all of it and I don't know exactly where Hap stands on Matthew 24 Matt full preterist

Full preterist on Matthew 24, it's not bad Right, you know like if you and I was trying to say this last week

Every Christian is the preterist if you believe in the first coming of Jesus Christ You believe that that that's already happened.

Well, that was a prophecy. So it would have been in a It would have been in the future of those that was prophesied to it happened.

It's in our past So if you believe that in the first coming of Jesus is death bearing resurrection you are in fact a preterist if you hold to a a millennial

Perspective whether it's pre post or all You believe in a future coming of Jesus and so you can call yourself a preterist.

You do not have to say partial as long as you're saying that you hold to a

Future millennial or as all male or post male we would say that the millennium is actually taking place now

And so, you know as long as you hold to Pre post or all you're not a full preterist period deny one of those then you're

You're in danger, yeah, yeah, I think I'm just more You know,

I I'm I'm open I'm open and I want to come at these scriptures with humility because there's a chance that I could be

Reading it wrong or just with this, you know reading through the filter of a partial preterist, you know and so I'm really open

I've been like I was telling you guys with my brother Seth looking at from maybe the idealist perspective and But still this is the text right here that I'm stuck on You know, it's

Matthew 24 right here. I Think it's

Recapitulatory So last week

I heard us Bicker with each other on on verse 3 at the end of verse 3.

Well, I'll read verse 3 It says and as he said on the Mount of Olives, this is Jesus The disciples came to him privately saying tell us when will these things be?

What will be the sign of your coming in the end of the age so that these things what were these that When were these things?

How do we read that again? Tell us when will these things be that these things would have been? The temple being destroyed and if you go back to chapter 23, it's it's it's

Jesus sending the Pharisees and scribes prophets That they are going to prophets and scribes that they're going to kill and crucify and take before the courts and then the sign of his coming

I would see that as speaking about us the ushering in of a of a of the

Kingdom of God, but but the way that acts words it is there Will you at this time restore

Jerusalem? Is that how it's how it worded it? Do you remember? Are you right now restoring? I think it's the kingdom that they call it an axe.

Yeah, let me turn to it real quick Actually, it's just that verse it says and so when they had to come together

They were asking him saying Lord a time that you are restoring the kingdom Acts acts 1 also says that doesn't yeah.

Yeah, but that's what we were acts 1 chapter 6 Yeah, so so when they're asking him, what will be the sign of your coming?

I think that's what they're speaking about him coming in as a king They're not thinking about him dying

Being buried raising from the dead going to the father and coming back again

They're not they're not it. I mean they're in his presence asking for his presence and so like you really have to kind of wade through the water here and Then it says and and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?

So right here it tells us the end of the age this that this word for age is a on now

Braden argue that the word end here is a different Greek word than the other words for in that we have in the in the context so in verse 6 verse 13 and verse 14

We have the words in so in verse 6 it says and you will hear of wars and rumors of wars

See that you are not alarmed For it for this must take place but the end is not yet so that Greek word for in there is teleos and Also in verse 13, but he who endures to the end will be saved that word end is tell it

I mean I teach not teleos Look at it again. I lost my page.

Okay. Here it is. Do you know it? I'm looking it up right now.

So that word it's It's not teleos. It's telos telos.

Is it telos? I'm saying Telos, I think

I don't know telos Yes, telos telos telos All right.

So and then so verse 13 is telos and then in verse 14 is telos and verse 14 says this gospel of the kingdom must be proclaimed through all the world as a testimony to all nations and Then the end telos will come and so his argument is

Brayden correct me if I'm wrong Brayden that because the Greek word here is not the same as the

Greek word of the end in verse 3 That it's not speaking about the same thing.

Is that correct? I think I think that You are correct and when

I'm saying that I think that what they're thinking is That the age is happening at the destruction of the temple.

I think that What Christ establishes for us in other portions of Scripture is is the two -age model?

and so I think what Christ is doing in here is correcting their thinking on saying that the Destruction of the temple is is the end of all things.

He's he's saying that the ends gonna happen But there's going to be stuff that takes place after it The the end is the temple destroying but the end of the age the consummation of the age is something different is

So what would be the antecedent to verse 6 where it says the end is not yet it would be it'd be verse 3

Yeah, the verse 3 Exactly. I'm speaking of the age. Yep And so the in chapter 3,

I mean verse 13 and 14 the same, correct? Yeah, they're all speaking of the same end and the end there is the end of the age

Yeah so my problem is is I don't see how you can say that it's not speaking about the end of the age whenever All three of these verses are pointing to one verse right end of the age verse 3

So you so what my thinking on it though is is that the the Jewish people have the mindset that okay?

If if Christ is talking about the end of the king of the temple the temple is going to be destroyed that must mean that the kingdom is now being given to the

Jewish nation and that's the end of the world and this is going to be Eternal state Messiah sitting on the throne of David's there, right?

We would say that those things Didn't I would have saw it as a physical Like I don't think that yeah,

I don't think they were thinking eternal like whenever the rich young ruler asked asked Jesus about Eternal life.

He wasn't thinking about dying going to be with with God in heaven and living forever He was thinking about living on earth with his possessions forever.

Also, yeah, also, you know The the Jews had it all wrong and how the Messiah would come and how the kingdom would come they had it all all backwards

Yeah, that's what was what Acts chapter 1 verse 6 was talking about They were thinking of him coming in as a king and restoring the kingdoms to Israel Yeah, and he had something totally different in mind, which was the kingdom of heaven the new covenant, right?

Yeah I'm sorry I'm just going to say to continue on with that is that the

Jews were expecting and thinking of something in their tradition and their Mindset and they were wrong in that and so what

I think is taking place as Christ is using a different word for end in there to differentiate from what their question is that the consummation because that word consummation carries a marriage language to it and the nearest antecedent to a marriage example

In direct reference to what Christ has given that the disciples would be I think is alluding to Would be from chapter 22 verses 1 through 20

I believe but I'm wearing a ballpark, but shouldn't the end that he's speaking of be identified because yeah

I think it will verse 6 It's not verse 7. I mean in verse 13, it's not but in verse 14

He says then the end will come Really the only end pointing to that has to be the end in verse 3

Which is the end of the age then the end of the age will come The end of what age the

Judaic age Exactly. And so that's what I just wanted to say, you know all when you go all throughout

Scripture and we got to read Let scripture to speak for itself when it whenever this is apocalyptic language like a name one

Isaiah 34 Isaiah, I mean Ezekiel 36 Deuteronomy 10

Deuteronomy 4 I mean that it's all local It's not talking globally.

All right, and it's always local. All right, and it's always addressing either Israel or another nation and so Come and when it's

I mean all this language and we're gonna be in 24 29 tonight, right? I hope so.

Yeah. Yeah I Was just studying on On 29.

Yeah, but I know you got to say that that when we read it in context you see the same apocalyptic language throughout all the prophets through the the

Torah and the Promises and the curses I mean the blessings and the curses you see all this time the same type of language and I think that's where I'm stuck at right here when

I come to You know Re -evaluate the way I'm looking, you know, like because I'm always looking at it through the predators eyes

And I really want to get a full view Not only look at it from Historic, you know, like, you know,

I was saying idealist, you know preterist There's any way that you can look at Matthew 24

I don't think so either side of outside of a preterist eyes because of the near demonstratives

You and you see these things when you are handed over I completely agree tell us so so in my mind when

I would I would say that I have an idealist reading of the majority of 24 and I I would still hold that even in these verses.

I still have an idealist perspective because idealist a modified idealist perspective carries the weight of a

Eclectic view so it can still say something with preterists and it can still say something as yet future in different portions of texts

And so what you just made mention of you when you see these things Escape when you see these things flee hope that your day isn't on the

Sabbath Hope your day isn't when you're nursing. Hope your day is not when you're pregnant those things I'm absolutely saying are preterist but I think when we get especially in verse 29 and on we're gonna start seeing that that divide of my

Understanding compared to all right. So one question and then we'll move on. Yeah verse 14

When it says then the end will come you're saying that that's not the end of the age I'm saying that I think that the

Jews think that that is the end of the age and I think what Christ is doing in Here is establishing that that that's the end of the judicial age

But that's a part of the entirety of the redemptive historical work of Christ. So are we living in the

Judaic age? No, that's done. I know it really stands out

Really no, it stands out to me in 14. What's that? He says in this gospel of the kingdom

This gospel of the kingdom right here and He says in this this gospel the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all

Is that is that in the could you check that in the Greek right there that nations is that ethnos?

Looking at right now. Yeah, it's working. You know, it's speaking about the ethnos the Gentile nations

Yeah, the word for a whole world. There's oikom in a it means the inhabited earth.

It's not talking about the cosmos This is the only place in Matthew where that word comes up You know, it's the only place where he uses that word

Which ethno that word for four nations is almost always utilized in the way of Gentiles, which is pretty

Implicit. Yeah, it's pretty implicit when we look at freakin Revelation chapter 20 verses 1 through 6 that talks about that The the

Satan will no longer be able to deceive the ethnos the nations the Gentile world, right? What do we have today

I'm a Gentile in Idaho in the United States believing in Christ say baby, baby

We hear it fulfillment. Oh, yeah Like we're fulfillment of Matthew All right, so We'll move past that I mean, you know,

I still want to harp on it, but we'll move past it for the sake I really think that if we get into verse 36, you'll start understanding kind of what

I'm getting at because I don't worry About that because 36 I do believe I got a straightforward answer for you, but I'm super All right, so but but I do want to touch back over What we ended at last week on the coming of Christ.

So I think it was verse 27 for as lightning comes from Because I believe it goes well with the context of what we're about to read so I don't want to read it

I don't want to read 29 to 31 without having 27 in our mind as well so For as lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the

West so will be the coming of the Son of Man Wherever the corpses gather there the vultures.

I mean where the corpse corpse is corpses is excuse me There the vultures will be gathered

Again in some translations use the word eagles instead of vultures

This could be referring to the Roman Army It could actually be referring to actual

Eagles or actual vultures. The Roman armies were called the Eagles Really to me

I don't think it really matters there but as far as Jesus coming

For as the lightning comes as from the east and shines as far as the

West So will be the coming of the Son of Man. And so this speaking of Jesus coming

And I gave several different verses Concerning this coming you did.

Do you remember me speaking about this coming from Matthew? A Could I say something real fast?

Yeah, go ahead. You know, I just something just cracked me You know, I can't help it. But you know,

I know a lot of people out there that are that are dispensational and they're you know they're into the Like that and I just totally

I could totally see somebody right now going eagles eagles seed revelation Philadelphia Philadelphia Eagles, don't you get it?

Oh It's there guys it's there Yes Eagles that means we are in the

United States. We're written here in Matthew 20. I revelation the seven churches, Philadelphia. Boom Yes, I'm right here it's we need a vote

Trump back into office he's the seventh trumpet Trump Pence Yes, Trump Pence.

I've heard that I've actually been in a Bible. So I've heard that it's actually heard that up in Idaho actually

Yeah So right here is going to feed in to what we see coming in verse 30 and 31, but I just want to kind of touch base what

I said last week about this coming and Matthew chapter 10 verse 28

No, no, excuse me Yeah, verse 23 Jesus speaking to his disciples his

Apostles when he sent them out to witness when they persecute you from town to town flee

For I say to you speaking to his disciples You will not have gone to all the towns of Israel before the

Son of Man comes Right, so right here it's saying that he's going to come

Before they're able to go through all the towns of Israel and then

Chapter 16 verse 27 for the Son of Man is going to come with his angels and the glory of his

Father Then he will repay each one according to what he has done right here verse 28.

Truly. I say to you his disciples There will

There are some of I don't I say to you there are some Standing here in his presence who will not taste death until they see the

Son of Man coming in his kingdom and right here we're entering in this passage of scripture from 27

Forward to what this is going to look like So if someone won't I can read from verse 27 to 31 and then we can come back and break it down But just to get it in the context

I can read it in verse 27 to 31. Yeah, it says For just as lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west

So shall the coming of the Son of Man and be wherever the corpse is there the vultures will gather but immediately after the tribulation of those days the

Sun will be dark and the Sun The moon will not give its light and the stars from will fall from the sky and the powers of heaven will be shaken and then the sign of the

Son of Man will appear in the sky and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and They will see the

Son of Man coming in the clouds of the sky with great with power and great glory He will send forth his angels with a trumpet a great trumpet

And they will gather his elect from the four winds from one end of the sky to the other

All right What's your thoughts haps?

again What has this happened? Yeah, man, this has happened.

So I mean This is the same exact language that is given in Isaiah Ezekiel and it's always local and it's always it's always the same judgment language almost verbatim

You know and it's it's the same thing, you know the the here the

What's really strike it hits me is immediately after the there's that definite article the tribulation

Like it says in Revelation 1 9, you know, I John a partner with you in the tribulation and the kingdom

All right of those days. The Sun will be dark and this is all the same language in Isaiah in Ezekiel You know

Deuteronomy actually when Deuteronomy I think it's a Deuteronomy 10

You know got Revelation 6 Deuteronomy 10 and it's always pointing towards Jerusalem, you know

It's the same thing. So I don't know, you know to be honest it Because remember

I'm torn right now, you know, so that's why I asked you is this is this still type of Recapitulation, you know as we're reading through the scriptures

Well, the the language should be very familiar because you see this same language in the

Old Testament. Oh, yeah, dude Yeah, oh, yeah, but but the event that I the event that's been explained here

It's an event that that has happened already in our past, but it was it would have been in the future

Yeah in the context here. And so I I don't see any Recapitulation like what has happened then is going to happen the same way now

We can use this verse or this portion of scripture to prove that it's going to happen in our future No, when we read the scripture,

I just think we have to say yeah, I mean it's happened Well, you know, but people can also say well wasn't that I mean,

I know that's how full preterists would come at it Well, that was the second coming well, no because The Chapter 3 but the context of chapter 3 tells you it wasn't the second coming because they're

I mean, I'm not chapter 3 Excuse me chapter 24 Verse 3 because they asking those three questions

When will these things be speaking of the destruction of the temple and then being persecuted? What will be the sign of your coming right here speaking of the parousia his presence and the end of the age?

He was with them bodily his presence was with them and they're asking for his presence

Now, you know this as well as I did before the Holy Spirit came they didn't understand anything concerning his death burial resurrection in the kingdom

Like like he would preach it to him and they just would not get it. And so they're asking for his presence meaning him coming in like like David did and in the

Old Testament when he was crowned king restoring the kingdom

That they want him to ride in like David to restore David's crown so the presence that they're speaking of is that I think that that's still what a full predators would would argue though is that yeah

I think that's the second coming was in 70 AD that that that Event was

Christ riding in on the horse that that event is therefore showing the presence of Christ that that event fulfills

Completely the the mandates and the requirements of the second coming. That's the I think that's the the one issue

I sometimes have yeah Yeah, well just because the predators

I mean there's a lot of places where full predators is right, oh, yeah Well, yeah doesn't mean their host schema is right for sure

But I guess what I'm saying is I have and I think this is something that can be accused to every

Interpretation Method that we we imply whether it be a historicist a futurist idealist or a preterist is where is that line drawn?

right where where Because the the full preterist is applying a lot of the same

Harmoneutical principles and they're coming to the conclusions that are outside of orthodoxy that violate other portions of Scripture But in their mind, they're saying nope

I'm being consistent applying these things always to 70 AD and that's their line that they have drawn right and I The resurrection of the dead to 70

AD yeah, I I agree this was raised Bodily, he was raised bodily you and I are going to be raised bodily

I don't stay full a full preterist would say 70 AD was the resurrection.

Yeah I know they wouldn't say that it happened. I wasn't physical Well, they would okay because there wasn't

Right, well, that's that's the hard part with idealism too is that like that's what a lot of Jehovah Witnesses will hold to as some form of idealism then the thought of Christ didn't resurrect from the dead physically that he

Resurrected spiritually only and that they just kind of his body fizzed away in the grave, right? Let me have just applied a

Spirituality to this text and so like there's dangers that are inside each one of these Harmonetical principles that we apply to the text if we take it too far, right if we if we start of course

That's why you have to have you know more than just again I would say I'm preterist on Matthew 24 and a whole lot of revelation that doesn't speak about his second coming because again,

I believe in a a literal second coming Jesus is Resurrected body will touch ground in our future.

Yeah, and at that time The resurrection of the dead will take place the separation of the sheep's in the goats.

Mm -hmm Yeah, Matthew 25 is a very clear text on the second coming, right? Like that's correct

That's for me my go -to chapter for when I want to see about second coming type languages is

Matthew chapter 25 for sure I'm excited for the later on in this chapter though about where I absolutely love you guys

I'm so excited to be going through this chapter man. Yeah, I mean like Again a big thing was it for me when it comes to this because I know we have some disagreements

I know that I mean you we can pick on each other about it, but they can see that we love each other

Yeah, and the next week or you're not gonna be on next week I don't think no, whatever it is that you are back on and we're doing something else

Like hey, you know what? I've had people tell me I've had people tell I'm not joking, dude You're not a post

Maloney. Well, you know theonomous post multi anonymous anymore now Well, you got to step down as a pastor then

I was like why and they're like, oh because you're eschatology changed and I was like You know,

I'm yeah We need those t -shirts eschatology should be fun

No, I like I like stepping out of that I I I got this, you know like that that whole thing like I got this instead of I get it

Because you know I'm getting it instead of I got it because then my feet are planted in and I got a death grip on my

Eschatology and I think that we we need a cup again approach this with humility and stuff like it

I'm not talking like dispensation lives, but you know, you can just toss that one out but Oh God bless him, you know, but you know my brother get this so last night, you know, just say, you know

I'm just telling you guys this last night we were you know got some younger guys in there and everything and they were they came out of dispensationalism and Same thing that happened to me same thing happened to my brother

My brother has this elder in his church and he'd left Calvary Chapel And my brother came over to the sky when our elders

Rob came over to his house for a party And he had his last church there. All right, and my brother sits down just graduated

Westminster and everything and and these these these Calvary crackers came around they sat down by him and they started asking him about his eschatology and stuff like that my and knowing that my brother is in the dispensational and My brother goes, you know what you guys, you know, you guys didn't even ask me my name

Yeah, you know and he he openly rebuked them went to the other side of the room because he had a different Eskint Eschatology than them.

Yeah, these Calvary guys came to my my Rob and said we don't think he's a

Christian because he doesn't hold the dispensationalism That's happened to me too, dude

I've had it happen to me before too on different things. It's anyways You almost get seen as a second -class

Citizens and you're on your react any text any text doesn't matter if it has to do with eschatology or dispensationalism or anything

Agree and still have fellowship. Amen. Yeah, I mean again you saw me and him just now like just going at it when it

Comes to the end of the age and we're going at I mean, we're being serious like we're going at it We love each other praying for each other at night and everything.

Yeah Know the truth. I mean, he's become one of my closest friends Different ballparks on this one.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, so it is it okay if I keep on going on in verse 29? Let's read it.

Yeah, let's read it verse by verse and break it down. Okay We did from verse 27 you again

Well, we done did verse 27 last week and we kind of touched on again if you want to touch on it your thoughts it's fine, but I Think first 27 28 is definitely 70 ad.

I do think there's gonna be a break in Context going on from 28 to 29.

Okay, so would it be okay if I read that text then? Yeah, go ahead I'm so excited.

So Luke I'm ready, dude So part of the reason that I I'm holding to this is is because of that book

I'm writing right now about addressing the the kenosis theory heresy. And so And that that the thing that it is addressing is

Philippians chapter 2 verse 7 with the emptying of Christ to Justify why Christ doesn't know all things according to Matthew chapter 24 verse 36

That's their thinking that's online. That's their thinking right? And so in this study that I've been trying to do is is

And I have to give a lot of commentary and context on what how I would understand Matthew 24 in this book that I'm writing but in Luke chapter 21 verse 23 to 28 if we wanted to read it it says woe to those who are with child 21 23 through 28.

I blacked out for a second. Nope, you're good 21 22 to 28.

Yep, 21 23 to 28. Okay. Gotcha so my

My so I'll read it and then I'll kind of give my thinking on it So it says what are those who are with child and to those who are with nursing babes in those days?

for they were there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to these people and they will fall by the edge of the sword and will be led captive into all the nations and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the

Gentiles Until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled

Well that and there will be signs in the Sun and Moon stars upon the earth

Dismay among nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea in the raves waves men fainting from fear and the expectation of things which are coming upon the world for the powers of heaven will be shaken and Then they will see the

Son of Man Coming on the in a cloud with power and great glory

But when these things begin to take place straighten up and lift up your heads because your redemption is drawing near and then after this is when he gives the parable of the fig tree which we're gonna be reading here after verse 31 in Matthew chapter 24 and so my thinking is that between verse so so verse 25 is a similar recording of verse 29 in Matthew chapter 28 or 24 and so my thinking is that these words of specifically verse 24 of Luke 21 is to have been said sometime in between verse 28 and 29 by Jesus and The reason

I think that this is important is that we see in verse 23 of Luke 21 What are those who are with child and those that were with nursing babe?

Right that that to me has already been said in Matthew that is 70 AD, right?

That that's a bad day. You can't escape that trial because bad things are coming, right? verse 24 though I think is important because it says that they will fall at the edge of the sword 70

AD again and Will be led captive into all the nations 70 AD again and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the

Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled After this then it says in verse 25 then the signs of the

Sun and the moon and the stars upon the earth dismay among the nations and perplex me and that the roaring of the sea and the waves in My thinking of how

I read this text and we'll talk more about it, especially in chapter 22 of Matthew That in here what

Christ is talking about is the question of what the disciples have asked him And so he's talking about the specific

Recapitulatory again, right that Christ in Matthew chapter 22 has said here's the parable of the marriage feast there are guests there the servants are sent to invite all the guests that I've already prepared and They end up killing some of the servants rejecting the invite

The city is burnt down and then it says that the invites are then therefore given out unto all those that are on along the

Highways, which I would say is it's going on till today, right? It's the that's the inter -advental period is what

I would refer to it as What I think is taking place in Matthew chapter 24 is a recapitulation of that that parable of Matthew chapter 22 and in Luke chapter 21 the

The nations being led captive Jerusalem being trampled underfoot and then till the time of the

Gentiles is fulfilled I don't would not put the time of the Gentiles being fulfilled at 70

AD I would put that at what Romans chapter 11 verses 6 16 to verse 27

Specifically that of verse 25 and 26 that says that there's a partial hardening of Israel Until the fullness of the

Gentiles comes in then all of Israel be saved that wonderful great dispensational verse that people

So what makes you think that that's not already happened? I think that right now we are underneath the

So you believe that we are in the times of the Gentiles. That's a very dispensational.

I I wouldn't say so I'm not saying

I'm not saying as far as like a different separation of ages What I'm saying right now is that the gospel is going out unto all the nations like Revelation chapter

Yeah, but I just don't think where it talks about the times of the Gentiles I don't think it's speaking of what you're thinking. I think it's kind of looking at it from Revelation chapter 11

It says then I who is John was given a measuring rod like a staff and I was told to rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there

Speaking of you know, the Jews But do not measure revelation. Sorry. Yeah revelation chapter 11.

Yep, and it's verse 2 says but do not Measure, I mean do not measure the court outside the temple leave that out

For it is given over to the nations to the Gentiles and it will be trampled And they and they will trample the

Holy City for 42 months so this right here is where I would say this 42 months period is the time of the

Gentiles as They're trampling Yes, I agree with that. Amen to that. All right

I don't know that this is already have been months though But I'm saying that I think it's taking place continually, but the temple is speaking about the temple that was in Jerusalem That is no longer in Jerusalem that fell in 70

AD So again, you know as we got a like Really let the scriptures speak as we go and we look at all the judgment language that has been given to Israel all throughout

Scripture they give a physical tangible description Word pictures of What their state is what's going on what to look for in very literal terms?

and then it always breaks down like we were just in Luke 21 20 very 20 to 24 very literal terms.

Remember this is a continuous thought these ain't this isn't He's pausing and going on to something out and pause it.

This is all all the 21 is one continuous thought So this is this is okay. So and then he breaks into the judgment language again the same judgment language

That is all out throughout scripture right here And there will be signs in the Sun and the moon and the stars and the earth distress nation, which is

Israel Which is Israel same same thing over and over and over again, and so but but You know as you know

And then again if we were to continue on with that thought going on and into 29 We don't have to go into but I'm just saying there's that there too

Because then you have the physical the physical tree that he physically comes to and everything like that But it has a spiritual aspect to it

Yep, you know this this tree that he comes to the tree that he's come to the is

Israel Yeah, well, well, you're talking to I wouldn't say that necessarily Because like in verse 32,

I'm going back to Matthew 24 it gets in the verse 32 is where that's found

But when it talks about the tree, it's actually the the antecedent to this tree is in chapter 21

Yep, absolutely curses the fig tree. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm sorry. Yeah So I wouldn't say necessarily that it's speaking of Israel But he was just saying learn from the fig tree how it's supposed to give its

Destiny I doesn't he do that before he goes in and cleanses the temple so He does yes.

Yes, and no. Yes. Yeah, he records the Temple fire and I think it's Luke that records it out.

So you have the Yeah, I think he does it twice Yeah, I Actually think he cleanses the temple three times

Yes, I actually follow it like it according to Leviticus the high priest would cleanse the temple

Yeah, it would he would he would expect it to three times if it wasn't clean the third time

It was to be torn down brick by brick and removed from the city, which is what happened to the temple.

Amen to that Yeah, you know, I'm just speaking my thoughts right here. So this is just what I think your thoughts

I'm not gonna think your thoughts With my with my reasoning they'll continue it on from Luke 21

And I know that you guys might disagree with this but from from Matthew 21 to Matthew chapter 24 to the beginning we're having

Recapitulatory parables that are being given over and over again including the withering of the parable of the fig tree, right?

Which isn't a parable that's a physical literal thing, right? Which fig trees according to Deuteronomy chapter 8 is something that the nation's supposed to produce of Israel They are not producing it mean judgment comes withering of a tree then you have the parable of the father the son and the two sons the older son says yes doesn't do the younger son says

No, but then does I think I'm gonna say that that's Israel and Gentiles, right? And then my ethnic

Jew versus the Gentile nations and so then from there then we have the parable the landowner where he gives it the the renters

Ample opportunities to give up their fruit. They keep on killing and rejecting until it's the son of the landowner.

He then Asked the Jews what shall I do with these things? Which is a more fining tune of what is happening in 70

AD and what's happening with the Jewish nation? He said the Jewish people say that he will bring a wretched end to those wretches

After that, then there's a marriage of the parable feast Which I think is very important to Matthew chapter 24 because I think what we see is the entirety of the interadvental period

Including 70 AD and including the gospel going out into all the nations. Oh, it's all coming together like that, you know

Yep. Yep. And so I think what's happening in Matthew chapter 24 is it's another recapitulation of those parables.

It's crisis already used That's the context right? Yeah. Yeah, I would say that he is You know explaining

Matthew 21 we're talking about the plant. Yeah parable of the landowner Let's see, let me find it.

Yeah the parable of the of the tenants but you know like I There's things about it that he doesn't go into like like in the parable of the tenants

It shows them killing the son and taking him outside the city This is speaking of Jesus's death bearing resurrection being crucified outside the city him given the the kingdom over The context would be that he's given it over to those who are in The parable of the two sons.

So the one son would have been of course you have to look over to verse 23 the

Pharisees and the religious leaders reject the message of John the Baptist but Tax collectors and prostitutes received it

The kingdom is removed from the religious leaders and given over to tax collectors and prostitutes

You know what? I just started reading You know those those funny ha ha moments, you know in the parable of the tenants

I was just reading at the very end right here He goes when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard this mean his parables

They perceived that that he was speaking about them. You think? But but but so what

I'm saying Very perceptive Matthew chapter 24. I think verses 3 to 30 30 31 is an eclectic

Interadvental period with highlighting of that of 70 AD I think what Christ is doing again is that same idea of what the parables have already done of talking about a multitude of periods or a multitude of time but with highlights of different areas of that I think what

Christ is going into in those verses is the destruction of the temple But I do think that the the Sun being darkened the moon no longer getting its light and stars falling from the sky is talking

About the localized event of Jewish Jerusalem. Yeah, but I think it's still taking place today

I think that today since we have Christ and they do not they are still falling in that sense

They that we are still treading them under our feet. I mean you have the Messiah Let me ask you this.

So yes and no do you still think there is an ethnic Israel? There I as far as God's chosen people.

No. Yeah. Yeah, so Yeah, I mean because Israel, okay, so most like is there is there an ethnic

Israel that still considers them God's chosen people So I'm thinking

I think yes, I think that in that way They are in a fallen stature and it's after then which is also including the fullness of the

Gentiles that comes in It's after them their full fullness The fullness of the Gentiles is just speaking about them in the taking over the temple grounds, right?

Which I disagree with that, but but show me in Scripture where that's how you can disagree with it

Yeah, so going back to Revelation. I which we have to go to Revelation, right? We're not

Mormon Bibles So just As a

Chapter 11 remember this is sweeping. Hey, he's told to measure the the instanding temple

Not some future temple not some imagination temple not a temple in heaven in in my opinion though, is that I the way that I read

Revelation I could care less about the the Dating because it's an eclectic idealistic view, right?

So I could care less as far as what my perspective is that being said I would favor a later

Dating of it currently that might change later. No that being said though.

Don't say 95 That being said though. I Think that what's going on here is a measuring of it

Why why would I take that the two witnesses is so even in that understanding of the two witnesses?

I know that you would put a physical People to those two witnesses. No, I wouldn't. Well, you wouldn't

I think I would say I would say The two witnesses well, where you get that the two witnesses are not literally two people

They're not literally two people because it says that the two witnesses are to like it says two witnesses

That's the two are to all of trees and two lampstands Yeah, I don't know where y 'all come from. But but two is two and not four.

Yeah, right And so by saying that the two are two and two, you know, the two are to all of trees

Okay, I get that and they're also to lampstands. Yeah, hold up now So now you're talking about four and so it's telling you there that it's not literally to Witnesses you sound but it does

But it does But so we know that the olive tree from Romans 11 represents and Represents Israel Amen, but Revelation chapter 1 verse 21 tells you that the lampstands is the church.

Amen So what you have here is a Jewish church Standing up in the last days prophesying.

I just we see this in the book of Acts. No, no. No, I Disagree with you so much on that brother because I do agree with you

This is talking about two churches, but what's the nearest antecedent to to lampstands? That's already been but it says that they're lampstands, yes

So was Israel tree Okay, so the seven churches and Laodicea.

Yeah, so you're thinking that the seven churches in Laodicea Were they Jewish churches?

No, they were Gentile churches. All right. Well, yeah, they're all these churches in Revelation chapter 11

Had Jews in them because it was the olive tree. I Think we're the olive tree because we're part of the vine and that's

Spiritual But you don't but you don't understand is like in Ephesians 2

He's breaking down the the wall of hostility To are becoming one, but there are places where you since you see that the two separated the

Jews and the Gentiles Yeah, you said I started sound like a dispensationalist earlier. What the heck?

I Believe it's a Jewish church.

It's a it's a it's a church. The first church was Jews. It wasn't Gentile. Absolutely. Absolutely But what's the two lampstands the nearest antecedent is from Revelation chapter 1 to 4, right?

I didn't get rebuked. There was two faithful. Yep, two faithful lampstands, right?

No, no, the only way I would follow that is if you know, because I do believe That it's pointing out it being the lamp.

I mean the olive tree is definitely speaking about Because it mentions like if it just said lampstand without saying olive tree

I Think I could follow it more being a Gentile church Yeah, but Romans chapter 11 says that we're been engrafted into that Tree go ahead.

Sorry revelation 1412. Okay, this is the person. This is the perseverance of the Saints Yeah, those that keep the commandments of God.

That's that's old covenant and those that keep the testimony of Jesus Christ Mm -hmm.

All right, so you you have both of those so you have you have Ethnic Israel and you have spiritual

Israel right there and they're both the perseverance of the Saints And so you see that as we're going through revelation that the two lampstands the two olive trees

I mean, that's how I look at it. I mean, I might be wrong, you know but I would still apply that as an idealist type of Reading because because the better news that we have has the law written on our heart

And so even the even the Jews and actually it's more of a preterist Interpretation because I'm using the scriptures for identifying markers because in the book of Revelation It doesn't tell us what the olive tree is, but it does tell us what the lampstand is so Continuing on though with just that the grand sweeping of stuff.

I would say that this is a this is speaking of the heavenly temple I think that that's what it's speaking of is that our residency is the faithful church is there and I I do think that then going on to chapter 12 is then talking about the woman is speaking of The church in that sense the the one that brought about the

Christ and then their kids are you serious her children Her children and serious her children and her are protected for how long?

times times and a half time thousand two hundred sixty days woman standing on the Sun is Israel Which we are a part of Jeff No, the church is the eschatological

Israel Israel well, he has been hanging out with the Church of Christ.

Remember you guys I've got Church of Christ friends.

I Cannot separate the ethnic

Israel as far as Israel the remnant Being grafted into it

Okay Samuel Renahan gives a great analogy talking about the

Building in the scaffolding. I agree. Yes. Amen. And that the in that the this the

Ethnic Israel were the scaffold workers who took part in building the kingdom

Yes all right, the difference is between regular scaffold workers is that Israel the ethnic

Israel are a Invited to come in the building once the job is done

All right. The church is the eschatological Israel it's not

It's not the physical Israel that we read about in Old Testament It's got to be though.

It's got it's not me. It's a new and they said, you know what? I believe Samuel Ranahan would also have an idealist all millennialist perspective of text

I welcome me and him haven't have a debate yet. You know what? I You know what?

I can just see right now some black Hebrew Israelites are just sitting there watching this shaking their heads going

These crackers don't got it. Well, if there's any Lie, if there's any black

Hebrew Israelites watching and y 'all want to come on and have a conversation As long as I'm a cold room.

Hey, you know who I was thinking about we could we could have on is you ever heard of a What's his name

K Dub, oh He's awesome, dude He's a good brother man, all right, let's go back to Matthew 24, you know, we're still talking about Israel now

But I mean we got to get to her we got to get to a stopping point Yeah, I understand that back to Matthew then.

I Was just go Jeremiah 31, but that's all right I Were not a you from no,

I can't believe you think that you're physical Israel Well in the sense that that physical is being the the ones that follow

Yahweh yes, yeah, absolutely See, I break it down. Okay, we go back to it.

I break it down as Where the the Jews were the earthly kingdom people?

Christians are they? the heavenly Kingdom people now.

We sound in all mill you sound You're also building up too much of a

Dividing wall between the two because are you full all mill now? physical Israel a physical

Israelite can't enter the building which is the church or There there for they enter into the spiritual true is

I need to give you an all meal hug. Yes It's already but not yet it's already but not yet Rome and more than Rome No, but that that's my view of 29 to 31 is that I think that what what

Jesus has set out to do from verses 30 to 3 to 31 is an eclectic View that that that includes

The entirety of the interadvental period in between the first and second coming of Christ with the highlight of 70

AD taking place All right, so I'm gonna walk through 29 to 31 and give you my day you and Perhaps if you want to go after me, please

I'm not saying nothing. All right, so First 29 immediately after the tribulation of those days

The Sun will be darkened the moon will not give us light and the stars will fall from the heavenly

Heavens and powers of the heavens will be shaken. This is this right here is speaking about Israel Going back to Joseph's dream

Yeah in Genesis chapter 37 verses 9 through 11 Joseph has a dream that the sun moon and stars bow down to him

Jacob interprets the dream and said he says you mean me your mother and your brother meaning Jacob saying me the son your mother the moon and your brother the twelve stars are going to bow down to you

Right. He identifies that as Israel read throughout the

Old Testament Joel Isaiah chapter 13 when Babylon came in to destroy

I mean to To lay bare the nation. It talks about the

Sun and the moon going dark and then Babylon is judged for judging.

I mean for for coming against the nation Babylon put out the lights of Israel left them desolate and then

Babylon is judged Joel chapter 2 speaking about the Sun moon and stars going dark Peters says that that that's what's taking place in his time

And so we see in Revelation. We have a woman standing on the Sun. She's standing on Jacob.

She's clothed in Rachel She's got a crown of the twelve tribes of Israel around her and she is given birth to a male child

Go back to Genesis chapter 3 verse 15 The promise of the covenant of grace the offspring would come from the woman the woman

If you follow that transition of the woman was passed to Abraham and it would come from Abraham's offspring

It was it would come from the Davidic line this speaking about Jesus.

Jesus was an Israelite Hebrews chapter 2 he had to be made like his brothers his ethnic brothers in every way meaning

He had to be a Jew in order to become a high priest So right here when it talks about Sun moon and stars it's speaking about Israel now imagine this

If an actual Sun if the Sun if the Sun was to go dark and the moon would not give its light

Would there be life on planet Earth? No What about if one star hits earth?

And there'd be life on planet Earth. No, this is not speaking about the literal Sun moon and stars. It's speaking about Israel This is judgment language that we see throughout the

Old Testament and it's speaking about Jesus is saying that Right here when he's saying this he's speaking about judgment coming

That their land is going to be desolate Again, this is coming off of the heels of verse 14 the abomination of desolation

What would you say to a dispensationalist that would say? Do you not believe God is powerful enough to keep the world going while there is no

Sun and the stars hit it I Would say do I believe he's powerful enough? Yeah, I just don't he hasn't done anything like that I mean,

I mean, I'd really tell him that you know Christians aren't supposed to smoke weed and they they need to repent

I would say if you take this literal you need to go back to the mother church and And take the the body and blood of Jesus and the

Lord's Supper literal Yes, go keep on going. I didn't mean I did Okay.

Okay. So then it says then will appear in heaven So the speaking of the sky the sign of the

Son of Man So if this if the Sun is dark and the moon is not given lights and the stars have fallen

How are we gonna see a sign in heaven? There is no

Sun. There is no moon. There is no heavenly body because they have fallen or turned dark And you're not gonna see a sign this right here is telling you that this is not a literal

Something that's taking place as as the cosmos meaning and so Then will appear the sign of the

Son of Man And all the end all the tribes of the earth were born and they will see the

Son of Man coming on the clouds of Heaven with great power. This is a direct quotation from Daniel chapter 7, but also

Not only that I would say there's two things taking place here They saw this when the Son of Man was taken up in Acts chapter 1 they saw the

Son of Man be Taken up into heaven and and disappear in the cloud, but also when you read the

Old Testament Yahweh comes on the cloud Let me just read

One I'll just read one verse that that that I'll speak about it There's several here that I can go to but for the sake of time,

I don't want to To take up everyone's time what I got to say, so Isaiah chapter 19 verse 1 an oracle concerning Egypt behold the

Lord is riding on a swift cloud and comes to Egypt and the idols of Egypt will tremble at his presence and In the heart of the

Egyptians will melt within them and I would also challenge someone to read Psalm 18 read

Psalm 18 without reading read Psalm 18 without reading the heading and I want you to ask yourself

When did God do these things and then read the heading? He did it in the time whenever David was running from from Saul So what it says in Psalm 18 and how he destroyed the armies is speaking of how

God destroyed the armies That never happened in the way that it's described it's apocalyptic language.

Yes Right. We don't want to solve smoke coming from Yahweh's nostrils

Also in Matthew 27, I'll just want to read one more when it was concerning the cloud so Matthew 20

Hold on. I don't think I got it written down here. Let me let me find it real quick. Yeah, so Matthew Yeah, Matthew 26

So this is whenever he's he's taken in front of Caiaphas at the council Jesus said to him

Caiaphas you have said so but I tell you Caiaphas from now on you will see the

Son of Man sitted at the right hand of power and Coming on the clouds of heaven Then the high priest tore his robe and said he utters blasphemy.

What further witness do we need? You have heard it from you have now heard the blaspheme

Because they knew that only Yahweh only you'll have I have rode on the cloud

And so right here where he's talking about the sign of the Son of Man You will see him going up to the

Ancient of Days, but also Coming in judgment riding on the cloud every time you always depicted on the cloud

Judgment and then in verse 31 It says and I will send out my angels with a loud trumpet and they will gather the elect from the four winds from one end of the earth to the other one

And I say that this has already happened. And if you go back to what I read earlier chapter 16

Verse 27 and 28 for the Son of Man is going to come with his angels and great glory in his fall

Excuse me let me read that in for the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his father and Then he will repay each person according to his deed.

This is judgment verse 28 Truly I say to you speaking to the disciples. There are some standing here who will not taste death

Until they see the Son of Man come in on the cloud right here It says he's coming with his angels and it's going to be before all the disciples die

Happen past tense So that I'm just looking at that right there

It's it's that's a fault. It just came to my mind really fast 28. Truly. I say to you

He's of course talking to them. There are some standing here on 16

I'm in chapter 16 of Matthew. Okay. Okay. Okay, okay A Truly I say to you there are some standing here who will not taste death

Until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom now You know when

I got close to you know 70 AD most of the Apostles have died The only one that that didn't die was at the time was

John the battle. Yeah, John the revelator, right? And he was the one that got the revelation

Seeing that that he got a seed in the heavilies that Christ in his kingdom.

Yeah, you know, so well just out of the twelve disciples There could have many people followed him.

So the twelve disciples became his Apostles, but he had other disciples People who followed him.

Mm -hmm, and we're not told about all their death their deaths as we are

Specifically the Apostles and those who were close to them The Apostle John would have been the only as far as I know as far as history records the only one that would have been left alive and I Were you done?

I was just gonna say something. No, go ahead Okay, so in Matthew 24 and what we were reading from 29 to 31

As we're seeing this apocalyptic language all throughout Scripture for not only the the first book

In the Torah all the way through the prophets and then we come to Revelation actually in Revelation chapter 6.

Where is it in the sixth seal? You know when when he opened the sixth seal

I looked and behold There was a great earthquake and the Sun became black as sackcloth The full moon became like blood and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the big tree

Sheds its winter fruit when shaken by Gail the sky banished the

I mean we've read all this language before over and over and over again But again, it's giving you that the physical and the spiritual because chapter 7 goes into the 144 thousand

Which would have been what I would say that's Jews I wouldn't say that speaking of I wouldn't say that speaking of Gentiles is speaking of Jews I won't say

I got a big to differ because when we come across the the The twelve tribes right there where you got the sealed of Judah and the sealed of Benjamin Who's the the who's the the line of the tribe of Judah?

It's Jesus Christ, right Well, Jesus is a part of the lava, but it's speaking of the physical tribe

But this is speaking about the elect He says I heard

I heard a great I mean he goes I heard a hundred and forty four thousand All right, and then he goes

I I saw a great multitude that now you're mixing two parts We breathe this in one thought and stuff it's going yeah physical spiritual

Doug Wilson's interpretation that the great multitude of every nation That's it's also it's also 144 ,000 so what you see here is the

Jews who were a hundred and forty four thousand a limited number and the great multitude Is speaking of the

Gentiles who were a number that no one can you couldn't number? Because it's more than a hundred and forty four thousand.

But again, these two are one. It's one body as in the church But it's just a symbolic number

So you but that's your interpretation, I don't think it was a symbolic number But where do we differ when we're going through the symbolic symbolic numbers in in Revelation?

well Yes So 144 ,000 is very specific.

So you have 12 ,000 from each tribe 12 tribes, right versus the thousand years

Because in the scriptures, you know, God owns the cattle on a thousand heels God will bless you for a thousand generations.

If a generation is 40 years or a thousand your rails and Excuse me or a thousand year reign.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah a thousand year reign So I wouldn't take a thousand literal because I believe that God owns the cattle on every hill

Yeah, like I don't limit that but also I go back to Genesis when

Joseph is interpreting a dream for Pharaoh and he tells Pharaoh that God numbered

Double, he's excuse me. God doubled the dream so he would know it was for certain. So where I see numbers are doubled

Are are certain things that are double like the three and a half years? So like the three and a half years are called 42 months or times time and half time

I take that as a literal three and a half years because it was doubled. That means it's for certain the thousand years is it numbered and the reason the only reason why

I take the 144 ,000 literal is because it's it's going over a thousand and it's and it's pinpointing a number and it's actually doing 12 from each tribe 12 ,000 for me what tribe which is 12

I know but sealed in order to be sealed yet to be sealed with the Holy Spirit. Correct. That's what it says throughout.

So So it was that past tense 144 ,000

Yes, I think these are those who who through the witness of the Apostles came to faith in Jesus Christ Okay, I don't agree with that.

Yeah I love I just I just trying to stay consistent.

That's all but I mean I see what you're saying But how can you stay consistent in the book of Revelation? It's the most symbolic book in the whole

Bible I know that's how many is I mean, it's a recapitulation. I must say that right? And it's hard for you learn that word very well being a non -millennialist

It's hard for an old trailer park boy Yeah, I mean I mean

Story being told Yeah, you know My difficult part right here is because I'm so I'm so Preterist that I keep forcing myself to see something and now and but when

I keep looking at the Consistency of Scripture as I'm going through and I'm seeing the Bible I'm seeing the physical spiritual physical spiritual over and over and over again well, the book of Revelation tells you that it says

Chapter 1 and it tells you how to interpret it chapter 1 verse 1 Daniel chapter 2. No, it's not a 5 through 42.

Oh, yeah, because the the angel that came in signified Yeah, the message of God that actually means symbolized.

Yeah. Well, it actually says The angel speaking to John says right?

Therefore the things that you have seen past tense Those that are present tense still are past and those that are to take place his future

But how much of his future is? Yeah Right, there's you know if Let's say everything that's in his future still in our future

Well, that's only one -third of what's written in here could be like if we lose if he was brought down like that So we have to understand that a lot of this has already happened because it was his past He's writing down what has happened.

Yeah, what is happening and what will happen? and so that's why

You know, I take the interpretation I do I I let each text speak for itself I don't necessarily say everything in here is happening because I don't see that that's why

I think I'm like really stuck in between Aumil and Postmill what was to join the camp?

Yeah, so stuck right in the middle of it See, but the issue that I have with Revelation chapter 1 verse 1 is that there there are

I want to say there's five allusions to Daniel chapter 2 verse 35 to 42 like I made mention of And when we look at the entirety of the book of Daniel in the way that he uses symbolic prophetic wording

It's often not just speaking of one event It's talking about about a multitude of events that take place between him and the time

Christ comes And so when I look at the book of Revelation, I don't say that it's just a recapitulation of one event

I say it's a recapitulation of a multitude of events from different perspectives like haps is saying And some of them are applied throughout in a timeless sense

Some are applied in a very specific sense, but I think that that is more

Fitting for it calling back to it starting out the entirety of the book because the the book of Revelation has more

References more allusions to Old Testament prophetic text and any all the books in the

New Testament combined Yeah, so I it's wild. It's like Ezekiel. Oh, yeah, totally totally totally

I'm walking through Ezekiel right now As we speak but I can't say that all of Revelation was a fulfilled or majority of Revelation was fulfilled in 70

AD I definitely believe a majority of it was At least where it talks about right what was that's his past.

He's writing about stuff that's happened in his past Right. Can we agree with that? Yep. Yep, right

In chapter four and five is a perfect example of that and again presented before the father

Right as a lamb that's slain. That's right. Yes Again, the dating of the book really goes to because if it's if it's written in 95

AD which past There's no way it was written if it's written if it was written in 68

AD All right, 69 AD like a lot of scholars believe. All right, so which past is he talking about?

You know what? I'm saying? So I think the dating of it really has a lot to do with it Also, I'm coming at it and the idea that it was written 6869

AD the temple is still standing in Revelation chapter 11 The book of Revelation mentions nothing about the temple falling

Okay, the temple is still standing Imagine if I was to write a book about New York for the last 30 years and didn't mention the

Twin Towers falling You would say that I was inconsistent and incorrect on my On my biography of New York What the purpose of the book was being written for if the purpose but it mentions the history of it mentions the temple

But it doesn't mention that temple fell but Hebrews chapter. Where is it that it says that we are the temple of God?

In the new I can't remember where I remember that and that the temple is also that the temple is also

It's it's the the physical of the the spiritual And so when you got you got a temple that the temple is the heavenly that that's why when we go back to the garden the garden is a representation of the heavenly that God and man dwelt together

So you got and then when you go into Revelation and the and the the New Jerusalem is coming down you have that you have

Eden coming down out of heaven when heaven and earth meet. All right That that's how

I look at it. I mean that that's hot. I really see it right there already, but not yet Again, that's something

I struggle with you know, and it's like these are all dude. My battery's gonna die, dude Your battery's gonna die.

My battery's gonna die. It just popped up right charge your stuff, man What I haven't been on the scene in almost two months

Just sitting in my garage. Do you see what you we are at an hour and 20 minutes to go?

Yeah, you missed a lot of good stuff apps I've been my health has been so bad dude.

So yeah, but I'm starting to realize whenever we come back We're going to pick up where we left off if we don't

Back in verse 29 is where we're gonna start because I had some stuff. I wanted to make mention of To your understanding of Matthew 24 29 through 31,

I Don't see how anyone can pick anything apart. Like it goes guys.

I gotta go Love you guys Next week or I won't be here next week, but see it.

I'm gonna be here if you want to come on Where are we gonna be in Matthew 24? No, we'll wait for you know, we'll wait for Brayden Romans chapter 2

Because I I know this This dispensational ism, that's a midget and I think we should have her on she's awesome, dude

Yes, we do little

Laurie, all right guys god bless remember glorify God enjoy him forever Yes Amen, I want to ask you these questions, but it might take a while that like ask you them

Well, it's up to you if you want to keep going. I'm fine. Let me let me ask you just let me ask you what?

I'm thinking real fast. So Verses 29 and 31 In verse 31 specifically in your translation.

You said a loud trumpet in my translation It says a great trumpet would there be any different understanding that you would have if that word was meant to be great?

as far as Okay, now that was just my question if you would have any other understanding if it was meant to be great and so loud

And then also are you alluding to another passage? No, well

To a certain degree, but I was just curious if you would point those if you yeah, but again, this is I Didn't I don't know why

I thought I wrote the scripture reference down This same language about a trumpet call

It's actually the same like we see it in Ezekiel. You see it in Joel do yeah.

Yeah And so like like this is nothing new. It's it's it's it's hyperbolic language.

Absolutely well, and in part of Goes into my next question though.

So because what I see is a difference between verse 31 and a verse

About fleeing into the mountains and that kind of idea From the prior text that I've read it it almost sounds like Christ is saying when you see this flee just scatter you're leaving

Jerusalem. You're going away into the mountains, right? You're fleeing in this area history would tell us that they they gathered in certain areas, but regardless it says they flee

Why is it that in verse 31? It says that the angels gather that the the angels are actually gathering instead of dispersion that I see a difference of in verse 31 where it seems like there's a gathering versus a dispersion that Christ has already talked

About and then there and then there's another question. I have that that stems from that thinking

Yes, I would say that the the interpretation here would be the the gathering would be him.

It's So this is more specifically Not them escaping to the

Not them escaping to The mountains, but this would be what

I would what I was talking about earlier in Revelation chapter 12 You know like this is him you know the signifying of the 144 ,000 the

Jewish elect. I got you. Yeah And then because I do believe this is specifically speaking about the

Jews this will been the At the time whenever this takes place the the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, right?

They're no longer going to be trampling the city So you when you read revelator

Romans chapter 11, would you say that that we're already past the fullness of the Gentiles? well,

I wouldn't say the fullness but I would say the time of the Gentiles that Revelation is speaking about and I believe

That Luke is also speaking about concern in this context Okay, I would ask for grace to do more study and for sure in Romans chapter

No doubt I because I would think that that we're still in that period not well, I just I just But I think we're still in that.

Yeah, but if you're calling yourself the time of the Gentiles, I thought earlier you said you were Absolutely. Well, I'm saying it's very well how we see

Romans talk about it though is Romans chapter 1 Says there's neither Jew nor Gentile chapter 2 says that we those that are circumcised of the heart or the

Are the the seed of Abraham or the you know, what am I thinking? Yeah, but Galatians talks about it where the the spiritual seed of Abraham First well, oh, yeah.

Absolutely. It does not the physical seed which is spiritual seed We have the faith of Abraham regardless.

Yeah going on into Romans chapter 8 It then says that not all of Israel is Israel, right?

So not all of ethnic Israel is actually Israel so we have a differential of Israel and Israel right in the same text and then

Romans chapter 11 and there's some other argument that goes into this but Romans chapter 11 verse 25 and 26.

I should just turn to it to help me understand it better But it says there's been a partial hardening to Israel So once I think that that's not all of Israel that claims to be

Israel is Israel There's been a partial hardening meaning that there's still some that from the ethnic is really ethnic

Jew that is being but I don't think that's speaking about the Israels today and Well, I think

I think it says I think it does I think that anytime a Jewish person comes to faith in Christ I think that they are our fulfillment of that a partial hardening that's there's a

Jesus spoke about it of the Jews of his day Isaiah is told to to preach in such a way that would harden the hearts blind eyes and deaf in the ear

Jesus spoke in parables so that those who were hard and blind and deaf would not See here and understand and totally come to repent.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah and and and at the time of the Rome, I mean at the time of Paul whenever he's proclaiming this he's being persecuted by the

Jesus and so It had to happen to that generation that generation was going to be punished for the generations from the blood of a righteous

Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barak I see But I think that the partial hardening is still even taking place today because I mean look at what's happening in Jerusalem right now

They're trying to build a third temple like they're yeah, but they're just being like a theist. I mean, they're just like That's what

I'm saying is the partial hardening you like you watch Anyway, I'm sorry. I don't mean to speak.

I just don't see them in any way being a part of God. They're worse I don't think I don't know.

Yeah, I don't think the people between 133 AD and 70 AD that were ethnic Israel.

I don't think they were a part of God either. I think they were They were just as equally partially hardened as what today is.

I think yeah, like I think Israel I mean the the Jews now they can live in Israel and continue to break

God's law and never be removed from the land because The law has no longer tides to the land all throughout the

Old Testament It was keep the law you will live in the land of Canaan break the law You'll be removed from the land.

Yeah, right and we see it over and over they did not keep the law So they were removed from the land Ultimately the last time is in 70

AD when they were finally removed from the land. Absolutely For this judgment that I believe that it's being spoken about totally

But there were several times though in the Old Testament where they're pulled out of the land and they're still technically God's ethnic

Plan absolutely. Yeah, but he brings them back Totally absolutely, which

I think this time he's not gonna be bringing them back in my well I don't think that he brought them back. So like they're in the land now, but I don't think because when

Christ Kept the law he earned the land but it but it was more than the land the meat shall inherit the earth longer

Jerusalem as a a piece of land by the edge of the Mediterranean Sea. I just think like how land temple

Prophet or priests the sacrifice they all pointed us to Jesus, right? I think the land of that as well, right that it points correct

Yeah, it was the fulfillment. It was the fulfillment of the promise given in Genesis chapter 7

I mean Genesis chapter 12 verse 7 speaking that that you know, you're all speaking Abram Abram at the time

You're all spring would inherit the land Paul Speaks of that as as the offspring is singular and it's speaking of Christ Totally and I and and I'm giving you grace towards like not knowing

Romans 11 off the top of your head because I've been thinking On this a lot lately But just thinking through it that I think the partial hardening is still happening today because I don't think all of Israel has been

Saved yet because I think all of Israel I believe all of Israel that it was speaking about was saved because I wouldn't call the people the

Jews now Israel I think the ones that are coming to have faith in Christ are Israel. I think there are

I think they're a part of the church. I Logical Israel yeah,

I think in that way that they're they're synonymous words in that way that I think because you and I have been circumcised of The heart born again, you and I are part of Israel and in the same way you and I have been born again

We're part of the church. I just think it's very confusing to use the word Israel again. I'm reformed

I believe we're the eschatological Israel, but to say that we're Israel We starting to sound like the black Hebrew Israelite movements and all these other

I do not think I'm ethnically Israel I think that I'm engrafted Israel. Let me say that I think

I'm grafted into true Israel and that is like I would not say that the new covenant is the old covenant

So I believe the old covenant is physical Israel and the new covenant is that is with the church

Yes And I but I do think that people in the Old Testament that were a part of the Old Covenant Or in the

New Covenant, they are part of the New Covenant Yeah, because because of faith not because of words because then therefore those people that were also ethnic

Israel were also a part of true Israel as correct. Well, yeah, right like that's that's how

I see that right? Yeah, absolutely Yeah, and so Baptist covenant theology amen to that amen to that. So in Matthew 24, though Not even speaking about the

Gentile stuff The one thing that I I do see in my thinking in verse 31 specifically again it says he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet and they will gather his elect from the four winds of From the four winds from one end of the sky to the other in that This is gonna play into how

I understand verse 36, which we'll get into in the future podcast. No doubt So I'm not I don't want to spoil stuff and go in and I thought we'd get a lot further tonight

I did too. I did too. There was a lot to cover though But the only other time that I see

Christ in recent speaking about sending which angels Once again is is translated as angels for us.

The Greek word is messenger of God, right? I'm not saying they're not angels I'm saying it's angels But when is another time that a similar language of like going out and inviting and gathering has been used

You're talking about 1st Thessalonians chapter 5 4 or 5 no, no,

I'm talking about Matthew chapter 22 And that that's the nearest time Christ as it has has

I thought you're speaking about after oh No So you're talking about me because I think

Matthew. Yep. Matthew chapter 22 verses 1 Through 20 or through 14

Matthew chapter 22 verses 1 through 14 You see there's three main characters with two subsiding people okay, the three main characters are the father the son and the the servants and then you have the two the two benefactors of the

Wedding feast, which is the first group of people in the second group of people, right? All right, Israel ethnic Israel true

Israel or ethnic Israel in church, right? Right in there the servants are sent out to gather and it says that they

Well, first of all, it says that the the the first invites they reject them and they even kill some of the servants and therefore

The city is set ablaze. I'm saying that's 70 AD. So that's very So you're saying that the servants here are?

are Are the angels that we see taking place in 20? I think that's the illusion that's taking place in Matthew 24.

Yes And so what I'm seeing in here is is marriage I believe Jeff Durbin's interpretation of 31 that the angels are

Messengers not angelic, but they are So he would reverse if I'm not mistaken, which

I know he's not gonna listen to this I'm just totally but he's saying That the angels are physical servants and you're saying that the physical service are angelic

I would agree with Jeff Durbin's understanding. I do think that they're more physical than angelic

Now however, if it is angelic I I still don't see a problem with my understanding of Matthew chapter 22 because I think that the nearest antecedent to verse 31 of Sending angels are sending messengers to go and collect and elect an invited guest is in found in Matthew chapter 22 which this is is including all the interadvental period between first coming and second coming

And so I think that that the the two guests right and once again is Jewish people they rejected the the messengers they

Rejected those things City is burnt to the ground. The the gospel goes out onto the whole world or into the hall the highways and After that, it then says that they are invited and they come to the wedding feast, which

I'm saying the second coming yeah, what I would say here is that you're saying a Matthew 24 you're saying a

I I zoomed in picture of what's taking place in 70 ad Yes, and then and and then right here in this parable of the feast you're seeing a more 10 ,000 foot.

Yes of what's taking place throughout the millennial reign Just like how like a scientist would look through a microscope, right?

And they would zoom in on a certain point and then zoom back out. I think is what's going on Yeah, but you're seeing more.

Yeah, but you're seeing more So I personally wouldn't say that this is speaking about this Angels, I say that the servants here would have been the

Apostles Okay, you know but over here I would say that this is more speaking in general about angels only because of the context of what's taking place here because in Matthew chapter 16

He's speaking to his disciples who would have been his servants and told him that he's coming with angels and the glory of his father

So right here in 2016 27 and 28 I think this is what he's referring to because again, he's talking about the coming of the

Son of Man in his kingdom and right here in chapter 24 I would

I would I would say 27 to 31. He's speaking of the same thing. I got you. I got you I want to cover this more next week.

This is or not I'll be here next week. You're gonna it's gonna be three weeks before I'm gonna come back.

I'm not gonna remember I don't know. We'll do a recap and only make it verse 14

Restart for the we'll just do Recapitulatory things of Matthew 24 verses 1 through 14 just over and over and over again

No, I just did look at our comments and we did miss here. I stand theology podcast us saying stuff to us

Christopher Lazarus was saying stuff to us. We missed that. I I wasn't even looking at I was looking at your face

I wasn't I wasn't either man Yeah Normally I pay attention.

I know we're on fire though tonight Jeff. Yeah We're letting each other have it.

I Love it. It's fun talking through this type of stuff. I'm just saying the difference of opinions The cool thing

I think I like about it is that you That you recognize some of the symbolism about stuff you apply it in a different way than I do

But you you wreck my biblical Yeah Yeah, we won't people understand like we're not arguing about justification by faith alone we're not arguing about the doctrine of the

Trinity You know eschatology should be fun, right? You know, there's there's different positions and in the position that I have in a position that he has is orthodox

Right, we're brothers in the faith this right? Yeah We're brothers in the face and listen, this is fun to us.

Yeah, like this is absolutely I'm having I had a blast I'm sad habs didn't get a stay -around with us.

Dang it. Yeah, I was really excited. He's so confused right now It's good,

I enjoy it I really know and I'm man Hope I didn't give you too much for the card

So then now you know how to study and debate me out of my position I mean you should because you you know my card.

I do know your card. Yeah. Well, I don't know But I don't know your card.

I'm just kind of like taking it as you give it So no for sure well and there's some stuff dude, I honestly don't know the

Preterist view that you have and so there was a lot of stuff that you're bringing up that I'm like I I didn't even know that I didn't even see that I didn't recognize that right and so Yeah, yeah, it's good

It's like I I didn't know that you were gonna say that the fullness of the Gentiles was 70 AD Well again,

I would say it just depends. It depends on the context. So yeah and Luke 21 It's specifically speaking at the time of the destruction.

We've seen in Revelation chapter 12 I mean chapter 11 that it was for a time time and I have to three and a half years

They were outside they were in that they were trampling the temple itself You see what I'm saying the outside of courts and so like it's just like hey,

I think like I think My so one thing I would say like with if my view is right if my view is right, right?

a big if big if right big if like I think it gives more spiritual meaning to what it means to be a part of the church because I like in thinking of it right like you and I are then prophetic fulfillment of being a part of true

Israel Trotting down that of who think they are Israel, right? Like if if what

I'm saying is right, I think it gives more credence to the purpose of church It gives more credence to the purpose.

Well, I see your point when it comes to Romans chapter 11 But trying to connect the dots from Luke 21 to Roman 11

I have a problem with because of what's taking place in Revelation 11 the then standing temple

He's told to measure the inside that the outside has been taken over by this, you know, I mean it's about to fall

It's basically the temple is about to fall like on the thread just like yeah teetering, right?

Yeah, I Got you. Yeah, I and I haven't studied Revelation 11 recently to be able to speak educatedly on I can't wait till we we go through revelation.

It's gonna be fun. I mean It's gonna be like We got a taste tonight, right? It's gonna be like this every single podcast

It's gonna be good it's gonna be real good Yeah, anyway, cool. I love it.

All right, man, any last words? I'm happy to be with an orthodoxy. I'm happy you're within orthodoxy

I'm happy to be a part of the body of Christ the temple of God true Israel and Super thankful for that.

So yeah. Well, I got an announcement to make some of y 'all you know, if you're my close friend, you would know this but I You know,

I used to be in music a long time ago when I was 14 I signed to a record label an underground record label called slit your wrist productions very very suicidal listic

Unsaved group that I was a part of and so You know and I pursued music for a long time and then you know

Things just wasn't working out so I ended up, you know doing tattoos for a while then I you know

It was just too much for me. Also, I would argue with people and stuff like that, but I ended up, you know going into the family business of roofing houses and just Trying to pay my bills and stuff like that well recently

I've decided to get back into music and And Working on my first single and it's coming out soon.

The music is done. The lyrics are laid down I mean the lyrics are done. We just got to put the two together

So me and my other elder is working on this Calcinellia is just phenomenal music guy and so within the next few weeks month, maybe two months at the latest the

First song will drop and we'll probably play playing it as a part a portion of it as an intro to this just to get it out there and So I'm just telling y 'all don't be watching for it.

Check it out and support it now it is rap kind of rock mixed and And I wouldn't say that it's

Christian rap, but I would say it's a Christian artist. That's Robin so for me

Hip -hop toes the line it pushes the boundaries without actually crossing it and so You know, and I'm there's some songs.

I'm working on right now picking on my Presbyterian brothers But the first song is going to be called

Say what you want So just be looking for that and please support it I'd really appreciate it

But I'm excited about it. Yes my wife. I'm kind of walking around the house singing and Constantly, you know if I have a minute

I got my phone writing lyrics So Be praying for that.

Anyways, I love y 'all See y 'all next week, even if I'm by myself