The Sovereignty of God

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The Apostle Peter commanded all Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence.

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The Dividing Line is brought to you by Alpha and Omega Ministries, Calvary Press Publishers, the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church, and Bethany House Publishers.

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Your host is Dr. James White, Director of Alpha and Omega Ministries and an Elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

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If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, call now by dialing 1 -888 -TALK -960. That's 1 -888 -TALK -960.

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And now with today's topic, here is James White. And good afternoon and welcome to The Dividing Line.

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My name is James White and I'll be with you for the next hour talking with you today about a subject that is very dear to my heart and yet is very controversial.

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We speak often of the phrase, the sovereignty of God. I don't know too many people who very openly or very directly say that they do not believe in the sovereignty of God, but that's what we're going to be talking about today because we need to define what it means, we need to look at the

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Bible and find out what the Bible says about it, and we need to understand exactly what it is this means to us as Christians.

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And in fact, we need to find out whether possibly we need to change our attitude about God, about His dealings with us.

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It can be a very self -shattering thing to see us as the Scriptures actually reveal us to be.

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And so I'd like to invite you to take your Bible and to turn with me to the passages we're going to be looking at today as we look at the sovereignty of God.

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And then we will take your phone calls at 1 -888 -TALK -960 as we look at the subject of the sovereignty of God.

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I remember very clearly being faced with passages from the

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Bible that were very disturbing. When you're faced with passages in Scripture that cause you to squirm a little bit in your seat, they cause you possibly to want to go read

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John 3 -16 again and just sort of forget there's anything else in the Scriptures. You have two choices.

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You can do what a lot of Christians do today, and that is sort of start channel surfing.

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We all have those clickers that control the television set, and it's real easy when you encounter something you don't like just to hit a button and go someplace else.

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Unfortunately, we often deal with the Bible in the same way. We encounter passages that make us uncomfortable.

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We encounter passages that we don't understand, and the mentality that we have is hit the clicker, find another channel.

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Seemingly, we don't feel that the Bible should ever make us uncomfortable. Seemingly, we don't feel that there should ever be anything that challenges us, that causes us to reconsider what we believe.

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But there are many things in the Scriptures that when taken seriously will do just that.

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They will make us uncomfortable. They will challenge us, and they should cause us to reconsider the things that we believe.

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Over the past number of years, I have had the glorious opportunity of introducing many believers to the truth of God's sovereignty.

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And I always warn people before we get started, I tell them, look, this could be very difficult for you.

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This could make you very uncomfortable. This could change what you believe about a lot of things.

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This could make people in your church dislike you. If you even raise this issue, it might complicate your life a good bit.

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And I have a number of friends who, hopefully in a joking fashion, will blame me for the difficulties and trials and tribulations that they've experienced in church membership and church attendance because of the fact that I dared to point these things out in Scripture and say, you know something?

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These things are very important. This is a subject that is obviously fundamental and foundational to the

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Christian faith. It's something that you need to look at as well. Primarily, I'm talking about the subject of the sovereignty of God.

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That is, seeing that the Bible presents God not as the great butler in the sky who is under our control, under our fingers, so to speak.

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Speaking of the God who is the creator of all things, who has eternally been

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God, who is not growing, who is not changing, who is not currently imperfect and is moving toward perfection, but who has eternally been what he is today, lacking nothing, desiring nothing in the sense of a need that he has.

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I'm talking about the God of the Bible who created all things for his glory, who is working all things after the counsel of his will, who is sovereign over all things.

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That term sovereign, it still means something to a lot of people in the world, but sometimes that word doesn't mean a whole lot to those of us in the

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United States. We don't have a sovereign. We don't have a king. Kingship, sovereignty, pretty much the same term, is easily understood in places where you have a king who rules absolutely over the people.

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And certainly in the days of the writing of the Bible, it was easily understood when you spoke of the sovereignty of a king, his kingship, his rulership, you knew exactly what you were talking about.

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You were talking about ultimate control and authority. And when we talk about God's sovereignty, we are talking about the fact that God is king over all that he makes.

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He is king over his creation because he is the maker of all things, because he formed all things by his power, by his might, and in accordance with his will, and for a particular purpose he rules over all things.

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Now we, as typical Americans, automatically sit back and go, now just wait a minute. You just wait a minute.

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That can't be the way it is because God has to be subject to the Constitution and the

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Bill of Rights, and hey, I have my rights, and God isn't going to tell me what to do because the law prohibits it.

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Well, we do tend to have that type of an attitude, and it's not just citizens of the

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United States. I would say that the attitude that rejects the sovereignty of God, which I would submit flows from sin in our hearts and a failure to recognize who we are as creatures of God and who

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God is, is our maker and our creator, that's not just an American thing. That is a human thing.

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Rebellion against the sovereignty of God and unwillingness to allow God to be

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God and man to be his creature is universal. That is, it is something that every fallen son of Adam, all amongst the human race, experience.

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Yes, even Christians who have come to understand who God is, who they are in God's sight, who they are in Christ Jesus, individuals who love

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God and desire to live a godly life, even Christians experience attitudes and reactions that are not based upon a recognition of who

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God is, but instead are based upon that continued assertion that we make of our rights over God's rights.

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You'll hear many people talking about the free will of man, the freedom of man, but you find very, very few talking about the freedom of God.

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You would think that if our greatest object of love is truly God, then his freedom and his rights and his will would be the first thing into our minds, it would be the first thing we would be interested in defending.

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But how often is it truly the first thing that we are concerned about defending?

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The first thing that we are concerned about promoting? Instead, so often, it is our own will, our own freedom, our own creaturely control of our own lives that we are deadly serious about defending.

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When I talk about the sovereignty of God, what am I talking about? Well, let me give you some scripture passages.

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If you do not have a Bible nearby, I'd suggest you at least write these down so you can look at them at your own leisure, examine them in their context, examine them fully in their context.

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I have no desire to take anything out of the context in which it is stated.

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I desire solely to allow the scriptures to speak for themselves. But when I speak of the sovereignty of God, I'm speaking as the psalmist did in Psalm 115, verse 3,

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Psalm 115, 3, but our God is in the heavens. He does whatever he pleases.

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That's sovereignty. That's absolute freedom. That's absolute power.

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Our God is in the heavens. He does whatever he pleases. He is not limited in his power.

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He is not limited in the pursuit of his will. He is not stopped by anything in the creation from doing whatever he pleases.

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And some of you are already thinking ahead as to what that could possibly mean, that no creature can withstand the will of God, and that is quite true.

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No creature can. In Psalm 135, verse 6, the 135th

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Psalm, verse 6, whatever the Lord pleases, he does in heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps.

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Whatever the Lord pleases, he does it. There is no power that can stop his hand.

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Whatever is pleasing to him, he can accomplish. Or as it says in Isaiah chapter 14, verse 27, for the

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Lord of hosts has planned, and who can frustrate it? And as for his stretched out hand, who can turn it back?

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You see, it's one thing to look at the passages from the Psalms and say, well, yeah, in the created order, amongst the animals, out in the oceans, in the mountains, wherever it might be, it's okay to say

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God is sovereign out there. None of us are really overly concerned about that.

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None of us are overly bothered with the idea that God has control of the birds and the butterflies and the trees and things like that, because that really doesn't threaten us directly.

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And in fact, most folks don't have too much of a problem with the idea that sort of God is in control of the big stuff.

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He's in control of the nations and wars and big major things like that.

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Most people are content to say, well, you know, God will work it all out. And of course, even the godless person that would never darken the door of a church would never show concern for God by opening the word of God and being concerned about what he says about how we're to live our lives.

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Even those people don't mind bowing their heads and saying a little prayer at times of war.

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It's okay for God to be in charge of the big things as long as God keeps out of my way.

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As long as God keeps out of my life, hey, it's okay. As long as I can sing along with Frank Sinatra, I did it my way, hey, as long as that can happen, everything's all right.

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But you'll notice as we look at these scriptures that there is no such wall of separation between the spheres of God's sovereignty.

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God is sovereign in nature, yes, but he is also sovereign in the affairs of man.

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For in Isaiah 14, 27, you'll notice that for the Lord of hosts has planned and who can frustrate it, not just what.

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Now we're talking about men. Who can frustrate the plan of God?

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As for his stretched out hand, who can turn it back? The picture is of God reaching out to do something and what creature can reach out his hand and stop that hand of God?

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I think of the experience that those of us who have parents have had in dealing with our young children and sometimes that child gets into his mind, and I'm talking about very young children, that they're going to do something.

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You can say to them, no, you're not going to do that, no, you're not going to grab that, and you know what?

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They just reach out their hand and do it anyways. Well, I think of the parent, you reach out, you're going to grab that item.

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Can we really think that the little teeny hand of that small child can stop that adult hand from doing what needs to be done?

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No, of course not. Well, in the same way, can we really believe that the little creature man can reach out and stop the hand of God and say, no, you're not going to do that,

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I'm going to do this? You might say, oh, who would ever say something like that? I would submit to you that that is the standard message that is presented almost every single day in much of what is called evangelicalism today.

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Over and over and over again, I hear sermons based upon the idea that we limit

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God, that we stop God, that God can only do what we release him to do by our faith, and that is not the

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Bible's teaching in any way, shape, or form. The Lord of hosts has planned, and who can frustrate it?

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And as for his stretched out hand, who can turn it back? Isaiah chapter 46, verses 9 through 10.

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Remember the former things long past, for I am God, and there is no other.

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I am God, and there is no one like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times, things which have not been done, saying, my purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all my good pleasure.

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That's the God of the Bible. That's the God of John 3 .16. That's the

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God that the Lord Jesus pointed us to and said, he's the Father, he's the creator of all things, and he says, my purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all my good pleasure.

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There is no difference between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. It is so common to hear people saying, oh, the

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God of the Old Testament, a God of wrath, a God of anger, the God of the New Testament is so loving, so kind.

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The New Testament writers knew nothing of such a concept. They over and over again emphasized the perfect unity that existed in all of Scripture, and that the

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God who sent his Son in the person of Jesus Christ to save his people from their sins was the same

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God who spoke from Mount Sinai, who was the same God who brought judgment upon the people of Israel over and over again.

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This idea that we've got two competing gods, that's Gnosticism, that's an ancient heresy of the

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Church. It has nothing to do with Christian teaching at all. In Isaiah chapter 46, we see the fact that God's sovereignty is intimately connected with the fact that he is the only true

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God and that he is the creator of all things. His power and his sovereignty is related to the fact that he is the maker of all things.

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Why do you think that the world that hates God is so intent upon getting rid of God as creator?

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Why do you think that lost men are so adamant about denying that God is their creator and finding anything, hey, even relating us to monkeys is not too far to go to get rid of the idea that God is our creator?

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Why does man want to get rid of God as creator? It's very simple. If God is our creator, then we are responsible to him for how we live our lives.

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And so the constant assertion in Scripture of God's almighty power and his sovereignty of over all things is very frequently connected, as we've seen in each one of these passages in fact, with the fact that God is the creator of all things.

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You cannot separate the two. He declares, verse 10 of Isaiah 46, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done.

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God is the God of the past, present, and future because God is the very creator of time itself.

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Oh, you thought God was subject to time? You thought that time was greater than God?

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I would submit to you the Bible does not teach that, that God is the one who creates all things.

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God is not subject to time. He is not limited to time. He is the creator of time.

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And hence God's knowledge, God's knowledge of future events is not the knowledge of a passive person sitting around looking at a crystal ball and predicting future events.

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That's not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible has perfect knowledge of the future because God is the creator of time and all those things that take place within it.

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He declares the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done. He is the one who says, my purpose will be established.

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Men dare not ever say that. Men dare not ever say, my purpose will be established.

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That is the prerogative of God. In Psalm 38 verses 8 through 11, let all the earth fear the

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Lord. Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. Why? For He spoke and it was done.

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He commanded and it stood fast. See, He's the creator. The Lord nullifies the counsel of the nations.

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He frustrates the plans of the peoples. The counsel of the Lord stands forever.

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The plans of His heart from generation to generation. You see the contrast? The counsel of the nations, the plans of the peoples, they're nullified.

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They're frustrated. But the counsel of the Lord, it stands forever. The plans of His heart from generation to generation.

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No one can stop His hand when He stretches it out. Back in Isaiah chapter 41 verses 21 through 23, present your case, the

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Lord says. And He's saying this to the dumb idols. This is part of the trial of the false gods. Bring forward your strong arguments, the

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King of Jacob says. Let them bring forth and declare to us what is going to take place. Here's the challenge

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God lays before the idols. Okay, idols, you want to prove you're a god? All right.

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Let them bring forth and declare to us what is going to take place. As for the former events, declare what they were, that we may consider them and know their outcome.

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Or announce to us what is coming. Declare the things that are going to come afterward, that we may know that you are gods.

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Indeed, do good or evil, that we may anxiously look about us and fear together. God engages in sarcasm.

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He says, okay, you idols, you want to prove you're gods? Here's a couple challenges for you. Number one, tell us what took place in the past.

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Well, we all can do that, can't we? Oh, and tell us why things took place in the past the way they did.

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See, any historian can tell you what took place in the past, but very frequently we have no idea why things happened the way they did.

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God says, you want to prove you're gods? Okay, here's what you do. Tell us what took place in the past and why it happened.

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Please think with me immediately what that means. You see, if God challenges the idols to do this, that means it's something that he can do.

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God can tell us what took place in the past, and the God of the Bible can tell you why it happened.

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You know what that means? That means there's nothing that takes place in this world that is purposeless.

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Nothing. And I know that is a huge, huge assertion.

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And I know there are many people who respond not biblically to that assertion, but emotionally to that assertion.

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Because it scares us. Because it forces us to recognize that God is really in control, and that there is nothing outside of his power.

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And that if everything takes place for a purpose, then he's working out a purpose in everything, and that includes all the difficulties, all the pains, all the sorrows, all the losses that we experience in our lives.

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God is at work. You can't shield this God from the issue of evil.

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You can't shield the God of the Bible from responsibility for dealing with this world as it is.

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There's a lot of people running around who want to shield God, who want to hide God from the tough questions, who want to say, well,

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God really is in control of bad things. They just sort of happen on their own, and God comes along and helps us to pick up the pieces after the bad things happen.

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There's a lot of folks who teach that. There's a lot of folks who preach that. But they're not going to find much in the

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Bible to substantiate that. Well, they'll find a lot of people who want to hear it, but it's not biblical.

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And if we love God, then we'll teach the truth about him, and we'll allow his word to speak that truth.

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And his word tells us that God has a purpose in all that happens. We haven't even started scratching the surface of all the verses that say that.

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But the fact that in this passage, in Isaiah 41, God would challenge the idols to tell us what happened and why tells us that God can do what he challenges the idols to do.

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They can't because they're not true gods, but God can. And he goes on to say, okay, announce to us what's coming.

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Declare the things that are going to come afterward that we may know you are gods. Don't just predict the future.

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We're not talking about the supermarket tabloid type situation here. We're not talking about all the programs that are airing around the time the beginning of a year that talk about what's going to happen in this year and so on and so forth now.

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God knows what's going to happen in the future because the future already exists to him. He created it.

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He's in control of it. Nothing's going to surprise him. Ever thought about the fact that God's never been surprised by anything?

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God's never been surprised by anything. Oh, we go running to him all the time because we're surprised. We're surprised every day.

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We have no knowledge of what's going to happen in the next five minutes. We are time -bound creatures.

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And that's one of the greatest differences between us and the God of the Bible is we're limited to this idea of time.

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God is not. God knows the future because God's in charge of it. God created it. And he knows what's going to happen.

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And so when we go running to him, he wasn't surprised. He wasn't shocked. He wasn't taken aback.

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He's known this all along. It is a part of what he's accomplishing in this world. And when we go to him in prayer, we're not going to him to try to get him to change.

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Now, you see, one of the greatest wonderful results of finding out who God in the Bible really is, we discover that when we pray, we're not trying to change

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God. We're not trying to make him better. We're changing ourselves.

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Well, we're not changing ourselves. We're being changed by lining up with God's will and recognizing him for who he really is.

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Prayer doesn't change things. Prayer changes people, us.

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That's what you start to learn. That's what you start to recognize and understand when you find out about this

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God of the Bible, this God who's in control of all things.

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The Proverbs speak of this often. The wisdom writer understood the practicality of this.

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In Proverbs 16 .9, we read, In Proverbs 19 .21,

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Many plans are in a man's heart, but the counsel of the Lord will stand.

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Proverbs 20 .24, Proverbs 21 .1,

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Oh, but he's talking about men here. He's talking about working his will even in the lives of men.

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Yes, that's why in the 20th chapter of the book of Genesis, verse 6,

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And the issue of Abraham and his wife,

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God intervened and kept the king from touching Abraham's wife. He kept him from sinning against God.

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God has that power. God has that ability. That's a part of the very sovereignty of God.

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Well, we need to take a break right now, and I hope you've been listening to what we're talking about here. I hope you're getting your

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Bible, and we'd like to hear from you. Give us a ring, 1 -888 -TALK -960.

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1 -888 -TALK -960. We're talking about the sovereignty of God. Your host is

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Dr. James White, director of Alpha and Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

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If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, call now by dialing 1 -888 -TALK -960. That's 1 -888 -TALK -960.

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And now with today's topic, here is James White. And we're talking about the sovereignty of God.

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That is the idea that God is the ruler over all that he makes, all that he creates, and I don't know about you, but sometimes

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I look around this world, and especially of late, and I look at what's going on in our nation,

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I look at what is going on in our world, and you simply have to go, wow.

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It certainly strikes me like things are just out of control. This world is just a dangerous place, and things look to us like they're going every which direction, and yet the promise of Scripture, the promise to the heart of the believer is that God remains in control.

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God has not abdicated the throne. He has not gotten off the throne of the universe and invited political leaders or scientists or philosophers or anyone else to take his place.

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God is still in control. And that's what we're talking about this afternoon, and we'd be more than happy to take your calls at 1 -888 -TALK -960.

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Maybe you don't believe it. Maybe you think God has somehow limited himself. Maybe you think that God has decided to let man run the universe or at least run the idea of salvation.

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1 -888 -TALK -960 is a number you can call if you'd like to join the program this afternoon.

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If you've got your Bible, why don't you take a look at Isaiah 10 for a moment. Isaiah 10, not exactly one of the passages that everyone automatically thinks about when you begin to consider the concept of whether God really is in control in this world or not.

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Isaiah 10 is probably one of those passages that many of us could just sort of read through and not necessarily see anything significant in it, especially since there's a bunch of historical stuff in here.

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And sadly, many of us, when we hit the historical aspects of the Scriptures, just go flying right by them.

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Our mind sort of goes into auto shutdown because we haven't done enough homework to know what this is all about, and we just right on by.

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Let's go find something else to read in the Bible. We miss a lot that way. We miss a lot of very deep theology and divine truth.

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In Isaiah 10, beginning in verse 5, we read these words. Woe to Assyria, the rod of my anger and the staff in whose hands is my indignation.

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I send it against a godless nation and commission it against the people of my fury to capture booty and to seize plunder and to trample them down like mud in the streets.

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Yet it does not so intend, nor does it plan so in its heart, but rather it is its purpose to destroy and to cut off many nations.

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What's all that about? Well, God's talking about the Assyrians, the Assyrians that he brought against the nation of Israel.

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He brought the Assyrians against Israel and they eventually destroyed the northern kingdom, the southern kingdom of Judah, following to the

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Babylonians later. But Samaria, the capital, was captured around 720 or so.

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And here the Assyrians are described as the rod of God's anger, the staff in whose hands is my indignation.

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God says that he's sending the Assyrians against a godless nation. And guess which nation that was?

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That was the nation of Israel. God describes his own people as a godless nation, a people who did not recognize who he was or worship him in purity.

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I send Assyria, this equally godless nation, against Israel and commission it against the people of my fury.

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Wow, there's a phrase, the people of my fury. Not the people of my love, the people of my compassion, but here the people of my fury, to capture booty and to seize plunder and to trample them down like mud in the streets.

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God warned the people of Israel. He said, you trample my covenant under your feet, you sin against me, you engage in idolatry,

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I will bring judgment against you. And he does so. He uses the nation of Assyria.

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But notice verse 7, yet it, that's Assyria, does not so intend, nor does it plan so in its heart, but rather it is its purpose to destroy and to cut off many nations.

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You see, Assyria wasn't standing there going, well, true God, we'd like to be, we'd like to serve you and we'd like to be used by you to punish your people and to bring them to repentance.

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That wasn't their thought. They had no intention of following after God.

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They had no intention of doing what was right. The intention of their heart was to destroy and to cut off many nations.

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But that wasn't God's purpose. They had one purpose in their heart. They thought they were in control of what they were doing.

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The Assyrians had no idea that they were under God's control. They had no idea that they were being used by God to accomplish

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His purpose and His will. Instead, it was their purpose, it was their idea that, hey, let's go destroy and conquer and expand our borders and gain more money and more land and more power.

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But God says, no, I'm bringing them down for my purpose. They don't intend it, but that's what's going to happen.

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Now, that should tell us something about how we perceive our own selves. We don't see

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God's control in our lives in everyday situations. We don't see exactly how things are to take place.

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We don't see exactly how God is working out His will in our lives. Frequently, we can't see it until we have hindsight, and even then, we can't always see it.

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We think that we're just sort of running our lives and doing our thing, and yet, just like the

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Assyrians, God is using us for His purposes. God is using us for His designs.

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It's interesting to me that even though Assyria is used by God, even though Assyria works in God's plan, you read the rest of Isaiah and you discover

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God will judge Assyria for what they did. You're going to wait a minute.

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God used Assyria in His own purposes to chasten the people of Israel, and then God turns around and judges

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Assyria? How can that be? Because He judges on the basis of the intention of their heart.

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Their intention was to do evil. God's intention was to do good. It was the same action, but the purpose of the heart was substantially different.

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We'll look at some other passages that bring out this very fact, that the Scriptures plainly teach that God can use even evil men to accomplish

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His desires and still righteously judge them for so doing.

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1 -888 -TALK -960 1 -888 -TALK -960 is the number that you can call.

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You may be sitting there going, what are you talking about? Doesn't the Bible say, and have

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X, Y, and Z, and we'll take a look at those passages, and that's what Mike in Phoenix did.

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Hello, Mike. How you doing? Mike, you with us? Are you there? I'm here. How are you, sir?

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I'm pretty good. How about yourself? Well, I'm doing real good. What can we do for you today? Well, you actually started to touch on it.

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I was going to ask you about the problem of evil. Ah, yes. If God is sovereign, and you heard the classical, if God is sovereign, all good, all powerful, then why is there evil?

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How does God use evil? It comes out many times, and that, of course, is an assertion that we find being used in secular education all the time.

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There is a constant refrain of saying that if God is all powerful, if God, that is, he is omnipotent, if God knows all things, he is omniscient, and if he's all loving, then there could not possibly be any existence of evil in the world.

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And we were just looking at that passage as you brought out in Isaiah chapter 10. There are a couple of other passages

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I think are extremely important along those lines. Another one from the Old Testament that you're probably familiar with is

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Genesis chapter 50, verses 19 through 20, in regards to Joseph. Joseph sold into slavery by his brothers, obviously a tremendously sinful act on their part, tremendously hard -hearted, and yet, many years later, when

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Joseph's brothers now afraid that with the death of Jacob, Joseph is going to wreak havoc upon them, they are afraid of him.

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And in Genesis chapter 50, verses 19 through 20, but Joseph said to them, do not be afraid, for am

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I in God's place? As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result to preserve many people alive.

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And you know, I don't know that we look to Joseph as often as we should as a tremendous example of a godly man in the

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Old Testament. Because here's a man who has so many traits that I know I lack in my life.

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He's tremendously patient. He is tremendously, he's one who is tremendously patient and waiting upon the

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Lord. And here, toward the end of his life, he says something very wise. He says, for am

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I in God's place? How often, I think, Mike, we have to ask ourselves the question, are we putting ourselves in God's place?

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Are we acting as if we're God? And then he brings it out very clearly. As for you, my brothers, you meant evil against me.

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What you did was wrong. It was evil. It was sinful. But I'm not in God's place. I can't judge you.

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And I can't bring retribution against you. But what you did, God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result and to preserve many people alive.

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We cannot divorce God from what goes on in his world. We can't say, oh, well, that's great.

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That's wonderful. That's fantastic. God will pick up all the pieces. No. God meant it for good.

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Even when Joseph was sitting in that jail cell, God meant it for good. Would you agree with that,

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Mike? Oh, yeah. I would agree with that. But do you think it would not have been possible for God to have created a universe and shown his goodness without evil?

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Well, you know, people ask the question, what could God have done? And the problem with hypotheticals like that is that we don't live in that universe to answer the question.

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Now, one of my favorite authors, and I think he's well worth reading, but I sometimes wonder if he may have asked a few questions that we can't really answer, was

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Jonathan Edwards. And Jonathan Edwards fought with the philosophical ramifications of evil, theodicy, as they call it, all those types of issues.

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And I think Jonathan Edwards is the one who asserted that if there was no evil in the universe, then how could the attributes of God regarding his mercy and his justice have been demonstrated and properly glorified in a universe where basically those attributes would have no purpose or no existence.

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And again, I don't know that hypotheticals like that are fully answerable.

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But certainly I think there is something to be thought about in reference to the fact that what we see of God in regards to both his mercy, his grace, his love, as well as his justice and his wrath against sin could not fully be demonstrated were there nothing for that wrath to exist against sin or be merciful in regards to.

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That is the penalty of sin. So that's one possible direction the person can go in at least considering some of the issues in regards to God's creation of the universe in the form that he did create it.

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Okay, Mike? Okay, I appreciate that. Thanks for your call this Saturday afternoon. God bless. All right, you too. All righty. Well, we need to take a break.

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We would be very happy to take your phone call at 1 -888 -TALK -960. We're talking about the sovereignty of God.

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And we're talking about the sovereignty of God today on The Dividing Line. And before we go back to the phones really quickly,

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I just wanted to point out to you back there in Isaiah chapter 10, a very important element of this truth.

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I had mentioned to you God will judge the Assyrians for what they did to Israel.

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That's found in Isaiah 10, verse 12. So it will be that when the Lord has completed all his work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that is the plundering of the people by the

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Assyrians, he will say, I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria and the pomp of his haughtiness.

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For he said, by the power of my hands and by my wisdom

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I did this. For I have understanding. And I remove the boundaries of the peoples and so on and so forth.

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You see the principle that's illustrated there? God uses Assyria to punish the people of Israel.

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He uses Assyria to do his will. But it was the purpose of the heart of the

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Assyrians upon which they were judged. They did not recognize God.

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They did not glorify God. They instead said, hey, I've done this. And if we get a chance to look at Daniel chapter 4, verses 34 through 35, where another king discovered the same thing about God, that was

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Nebuchadnezzar. But first, we've got a caller. This is Dennis in Phoenix. Hi Dennis, how are you doing today?

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Hey, great. I really like your show. Well, thanks. Thanks for calling in. I just had a thought on the problem of evil to quote that great theologian,

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Dirty Harry Callahan, a man's got to know his limitations. And we're simply not in a position to judge

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God in terms of whether it was right for him to, I don't know how you would put it, allow evil. Because one, we're not

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God and two, we are evil. A perfectly good God is at some point definitely going to be beyond us.

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Well, you know, it's, Dennis, there are so few people it seems in our world today who recognize the two elements of what you just said.

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First of all, the Dirty Harry theology is good. A man's got to know his limitations.

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And unfortunately, that's one of the very things that sin does to us is it warps our idea of what our limitations are.

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Part of the very element of sin is denying that we are the created and God is the creator.

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That's what Paul says in Romans chapter one. We basically kick God off the throne and clown around and try to act like we are the judge, we are the creator of all things.

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We don't know our limitations. We have too high a view of ourselves and secondly, because we are sinful.

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We are warped in our thinking and obviously, that affects our very being.

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And there are a lot of people in the church today who have a very, very low view of sin.

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In other words, they don't recognize the tremendous impact that sin has upon our attitude our thinking.

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The Bible is very plain. It talks about sin darkening our minds and making our thoughts futile, but that's not a very popular message in our culture today.

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Well, it hurts our self -esteem. Oh, yes. And also, I was thinking in Romans, where Paul was talking about God's sovereignty and election, and he brings up the question that's bound to come where people say, well, how does

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God find fault? Who can stand against His will? And Paul doesn't. You know, argue with Him in the way we might.

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He just said, well, you're the clay. He's the potter. Who are you to argue with God? He just puts us in our place.

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He doesn't. And that is the only answer that can be offered because it is the answer.

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The answer is, you are the pot, He is the potter, and the pot has no right to argue with the potter in regards to His form or His purpose.

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That is, the potter has full right over the clay. Believe me, when we get to the issue of how all this relates to salvation, we'll be looking at that passage.

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And it's interesting, Dennis, that's when all the phone calls will come in objecting to what we're saying. A lot of folks won't object to this in a general way when you're talking about the sovereignty of God.

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But when you bring it down and apply it to the issue of salvation, oh, that's when the objections all start coming out.

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But in reality, the biblical teaching is very, very plain on this subject. Well, a lot of us, including myself, were raised on Arminianism and Billy Graham and all that stuff.

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when you're introduced to it, and you think you're the captain of your ship, it's really hard to convince someone who thinks they're the captain of their ship that, in reality, they're not even on the bridge.

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When you think that's where you've been the whole time, yeah, it's really tough to convince somebody. But you know what?

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I'm glad I don't have to convince anybody because Christ's sheep hear Christ's voice and they'll hear his word and they'll follow it.

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And that's the wonderful truth of these things. Hey, Dennis, thanks a lot for calling in today. Thanks for the great show.

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All right. God bless. Bye -bye. All right. I have just a couple minutes here and just enough time to read that passage

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I wanted to read to you where another king found out that God really is sovereign and that was

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King Nebuchadnezzar. Remember him? Went out walking on the balcony one day and said, wow, I'm good.

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Look at what I've done. He reminds me of an NBA player. He's out there on the balcony going, I'm so good.

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And God strikes him mad for seven years and he goes out and eats grass to the animals.

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But at the end of that period, Daniel chapter four, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me and I blessed the most high and praised and honored him who lives forever for his dominion is an everlasting dominion and his kingdom endures from generation to generation.

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All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing but he does according to his will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth and no one can ward off his hand or say to him, what have you done?

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Now there's a pagan king. A pagan king who comes to understand, you know what,

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I didn't do this. There is a God in heaven that is worthy of being worshiped and praised.

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He is in control of all things. All the inhabitants of the earth are nothing in comparison to him.

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He does according to his will in heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth and doesn't it say something to us?

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Doesn't it say something to the church today? That a pagan king has a higher theology of God and his sovereignty than many who preach in evangelical churches today.

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Have you thought about that? Maybe, just maybe, may I suggest that this is one of the reasons why the church doesn't have the voice in our society that she should and could have.

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You see, even lost folks can open up the Bible and go, hey, this book's pretty clear.

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This book is very plain. This book the God of this book is in control of all things and I can't tell you how many times

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I've had unbelievers say, hey, if this is what God's all about, I don't want to worship him. I hate a God like that.

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You know what? I have respect for somebody like that. They're a sinner in their rebellion and I can deal with them there.

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It's a whole lot harder to deal with a person that says, oh, I love God. I just want to edit him to fit my viewpoint.

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He's got some rough corners here that I don't like and so I need to sort of edit those things out if I'm really going to love him and I'm really going to worship him.

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Folks, we need to think seriously about what the Bible says. If we want to glorify God, we need to speak his truth, not just some of it, but all of it, no matter how uncomfortable it is.

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It'll impact our entire lives. It'll impact all of our lives, how we view ourselves, how we view our future, how we view our families, how we view our church, how we view death.

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It impacts it all, folks. Be with us again next week as we continue looking at this important subject.

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God bless. The Dividing Line is a presentation of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

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You can contact us at 602 -973 -0318 or you can write us at P .O.

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Box 37106, Phoenix, Arizona, 85069. We are easy to find on the website at www .aomin

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.org. That's www .aomin .org.

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You can also find a complete listing of James White's books, tapes, debates, and tracks on our website.