Chris Green/Paul Williams Debate

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. And now with today's topic here is James White.

Opening Banter and Show Setup

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line. It is Getting toward the end of the year believe it or not. It it is the 6th of December already my daughter is making rumblings about having a baby very soon and.

And that makes it really I'm sorry. It's a what. It's a baby rumbling. Oh, yes. Never mind. Can't hear you very well if you you know, you're on. I Can hear you fairly well through the uninsulated unfinished door, but that's the only way I can hear you.

So just to keep that in mind anyways, um, yeah, I don't even don't even don't even don't even bother that. It was sort of fun watching some of the people in channel that we were just on the way back machine was the Steve Gregg debate and What year was that?

I don't even remember what year that was now. That was I was a while back. But that was that was interesting. Anyhow, it's uh 2008. Okay, that sounds about right sounds about right. We were supposed to do a live debate as I recall and then that I think the church didn't like the idea that there would Be disagreement.

Well that happens in debates. Yeah, anyway. Anyhow, welcome to the dividing line. It's a beautiful day outside and it's finally gonna cool off next week sort of if 67 is cool I'd rather have 47 but Ain't gonna it's been a while.

We did have a pretty cold winter a few years ago, but ever since then it's if you need cold weather just go up north. Okay I'll do that. Anyways. Oh, yeah, the following has been I feel a need to apologize for dr White's behavior because I am the one who brought him into our to our airwaves.

I'm hoping that by tomorrow you've had time to consider what he did today and how negatively it reflected in his bit. Yeah, I had forgotten. I had forgotten that was quite the interesting encounter and notice we haven't had any since then.

Whatsoever and there was a there was a reason for that. Anyhow, um, I I caught this news item and I'm just like you. It just reminded me many many moons ago when I was I Had a full head of hair. Okay, that tells you how long ago this was.

I'm just about Let's see. I am less than two weeks out of Hitting the big five. Oh, all right. It's coming up. I'm actually looking forward to I am looking forward to being 50. I really am. I'm tired of being 49.

I'm tired of the 40s, you know, it's time to Start getting some discounts someplace. You know, and you've been you've been here so long you have you have blazed the path for me. Trust me. It's not all it's It's not the new 30 Anyway Just about there.

You'll you'll find places on your body didn't know exist hurt. Oh, come on. I've I've been doing that to myself for a long time.

Oh, no, no. No this they just they just hurt not because you did something to him. They just hurt.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to that and So this is if I still had hair this is a long time ago. But some of you know who Tom like us is. I've told this story before but we get new listeners once in a blue moon Tom like us is sort of a shock jock and I last I knew he was in Los Angeles and He was on KFYI in Phoenix before I started where he became known was on KFYI and then he went over to Los Angeles.

And I was on with him. I lost track how many times I was on Tom like us. I I think it was Minimally it does and I think it's more like 16 times something like that. And classic example of one of those guys has an on-air persona, which is almost nothing like his actual real person.

I often said that he was a a a a geek with a gnome with teeth. Sort of a geek and sort of mild-mannered but on the air he was this provocative guy anyways, he had a representative the American atheist on and the name was Brian Lynch and And he was on with some local minister and just vile just nasty and oh it was horrible just wow and a few months later his producer called me and asked if I'd be on with Brian Lynch and I said sure I actually had wanted to have the opportunity because this guy had thrown out a bunch of stuff that Was for fairly easy to respond to so I get there and we're sitting there I'm talking with Tom and he says something about we're waiting for a Lynch to show up.

Well, he had been on the phone before I just thought this is gonna be a phone interview. He was actually in town and Sound like oh man, he's could be in he's could be in in studio with me. So all of a sudden this guy comes walking.

He is this little five foot two You know 95 pounds sopping wet little nothing and He's so wimpy. He's like he's like hi nice to meet you. It's a beautiful studio and you have nice weather here, and I'm just sort of like No way, this is different Brian Lynch because the guy I'd heard on the air was just as fire-breathing Nasty man, and this guy is just sort of sitting there hanging in and in him well as soon as the Microphones turned on this may have been one of the first times I ever encountered demon possession, I think.

Because he just went nuts and he would just be While we're on the air and then soon as the microphone was off. So, where's where can you go around here to get something good to eat and I'm just I'm just like total Multiple personality thing going on here.

Okay. I mean even like us is sort of like, oh weird. You know, so so anyway, I don't think it was on the air. I think it might have been. In fact, it might have been but I thought it was between calls.

Anyways, I think it was on the air That he just looked at me and he said why don't all you religious people just go live on an island and leave us alone. That's what he really wanted. He wanted Everybody who reminded him of God to be removed from his experience out of the culture.

Now Brian Lynch, I mean that was the 1980s and you might go I just an extreme example. Well, I'm Church cancels Charlie Brown over atheist outrage a Little Rock Church has canceled a student matinee performance of Merry Christmas Charlie Brown after critics complained the show was too religious and Therefore violated the establishment clause of the US Constitution.

Yes, the cancellation came as the Arkansas Society of free thinkers Who actually don't want you to be free to think. Free thinking is a oxymoron for them. Free thinkers told television station KATV they had received legal legal advice on pursuing a possible lawsuit against the Little Rock School District.

We're not waging a war said Leawood Thomas a spokesman of the group. We're basically calling a foul against the separation of church and state a Spokesperson of the school district told Fox News. They had absolutely nothing to do with cancellations performance.

I said they had consulted their legal team and determined that the field trip was appropriate. Students at Terry Elementary School have been planning to attend a school day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic hosted By the church the event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explained the purpose of the trip, but it was canceled on threat of lawsuit.

Now who Threatens lawsuits, maybe somebody up in Madison. Maybe I have a feeling Oh Separation of church and state. Meaning you cannot in any way shape or form even acknowledge What Christmas actually is.

We already seen this in Sweden and places like that? Sweden which is just so far out in Looney Land on this stuff that they've come up with a new pronoun. That's not he or He or she it's in between somewhere so we don't offend anyone.

Okay, if you want to see where we're going Just look to Sweden and realize this is sheer complete 100 insanity absolute insanity. But a Charlie Brown Christmas, I remember there are some people who wanted to boycott The the Great Pumpkin.

It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown at Halloween because it promoted bullying. And now Charlie Brown gets a black eye for being too religious because remember Linus does quote the Christmas story. Yes, folks Secularism is not a neutral worldview.

It may be getting a pass that way but it's a worldview unto itself and the rabid atheist Does not want Christianity to have any voice. Whatsoever that is their hope that is their desire. That is their Their dream and they are working to accomplish that dream.

Yes, sir.

Just uh for your edification when the shopping cart does return.

Yes, when the shopping cart returns when Brian right after Christmas for a wait. Yes for and when we'll be there. Let me mention something about that some of you are probably wondering why can't I buy anything from Alpha Omega Ministries?

Well, it's all riches fault. No. It's a long story and obviously this was not how we planned to do it but if you read the the blog articles, you know that we we tried to upgrade some software and turns out that our old cart, which is rather old Would not work with the new software and we weren't aware of that and and we were only partially prepared to start working toward a really nice new Set up and so now Rich has been working many many many many many hours Getting it set up.

But what that means is during the busiest time of the year You're a friendly neighborhood Alpha Omega Ministries can't sell anything. So some kind folks have already stepped up to help us You know make up that shortfall, but please Remember us at this time of year and you know, we were just having a conversation about the fact that The folks in Washington, there are a lot of folks in Washington that would love to see Nonprofit tax exemptions go away.

They'd love to see charitable deductions go away all that kind of stuff and We would obviously be deeply Deeply impacted by Every every nonprofit would be deeply impacted by the loss of Tax exempt status and things like that, but some a whole lot more than others.

And the fact the matter is the vast majority of our of our supporters are Ain't trying to hide excess money. Let's just put it that way. They're giving out of their need not out of their excess. They're giving because they believe it's important for our voice to be here it's important for a truthful response to Islam and secularism and Mormonism and Roman Catholicism and Jehovah's Witnesses and defense of the Trinity and all these things and That's where the vast majority of our supporters come from.

We don't talk about it much. But folks you need to realize it's the people that are running on treadmills listening to this program. It's the people who send in 10 20 30 40 and 50 dollars. That's how we keep going.

That's how we keep the lights on that's how we keep the ministry operating. We do not have Big corporations that drunk dump money on us and big rich people. We just don't I offend all of them I'm too.

I'm too scary for those folks. I might say something that that might get everybody in trouble. And so it's That's how it's done and a lot of people make the bad assumption that because we don't talk about money and because we don't talk about things like this that that means that we don't have needs what we do and We just feel that talking about important stuff is more important than talking about that.

So just a reminder along those lines there is one Avenue for those who are trying to find Things that you would find valuable. We do still have the Amazon store. Have we ever gotten anything from that?

Yeah, really. Here and there it's not a lot but you know every now and then. We you know, basically. Once we amass $100 Amazon will send us a check. A couple times a year. Yeah, maybe. But the point being we still have a volunteer buzz.

Yeah. Who has compiled a listing. A nice listing of books and other things that? Really do dovetail nicely and with what we're doing here.

We'll have a way of letting people know more about that, right?

And so amazon .com in org if somebody wants to go and like a gentleman I spoke with this morning really needed to get his hands in the Forgotten Trinity. Well, I still have that ability. He can do it there, you know, and we receive something.

Yeah, it's better nothing, you know.

So well just keep us in your prayers and you know. If you want to help us out during this time period obviously. Right now everybody and their uncle's hitting you up saying we need to end the year strong and all the rest of that.

You know, I know I know. Just so you know, we are a nonprofit corporation that functions because you all help us to function so that having been said we move on from there. I've taken the time to put the Williams green debate together here.

Chris Green and Paul Williams on Acts 3 and the Author of Life

There's a couple quotes that I I just Just want you to hear. I'm just gonna play us one. Why is it? Why isn't there just seems to be such a massive double standard when it comes to dealing with Islam?

Because some of the Statements that Paul Williams makes amazingly offensive amazingly offensive if it just seems like Christians are very hesitant to say anything as strong as he does and They don't seem to see that, you know, that that's how things were.

Listen, listen to this one line from our series of lines from the Q &A section. And then notice the audience applause at the end. Just check this out.

He was not someone who got required to be sacrificed like a cow or sheep. And slaughtered. I mean that that's not what God requires of people. He if he in Islam God is a very forgiving and merciful God.

He does not demand a blood payment Before he can forgive people. And that's why I'm a Muslim and no longer a Christian because the God of mercy and grace is only found In Islam, unfortunately not in the Christianity we see today, which is based on Paul's theology rather than what Jesus actually taught.

It's the religion of Jesus. I follow not the religion about Jesus, which unfortunately many Christians today follow.

So lots of folks found that kind of rattling Summary of Paul Williams apostasy very compelling. We will obviously get to that as we look through the materials, but It is it is that it is amazing. There was an excellent section.

Let me see if I can. Yeah, this is way this is later on. This was Turton fan made note of this on his blog. So I thought to go ahead and play it for you so you could hear it yourself. It was one of the better exchanges in regards to the subject of This particular debate.

I'm gonna I'm gonna play both what Williams said and What Chris Green said? So this is just one of the questions that comes up from the audience. Listen, listen to how it went.

Does Peter say that Jesus is God or God incarnate or the second person of the Trinity or divine anywhere.

Now did you catch that. Did you catch it in Acts. In Acts he knows that second Peter 1 1 Clearly identifies Jesus God. Now my gut is he would do the well all real scholars know that Peter didn't write that he would Default back to the skeptical perspective, but he's avoiding it by just saying well in Acts well, there are all sorts of Critical skeptical scholars that don't think Luke wrote Acts either so it seems somewhat Odd to to make that distinction.

But anyways, just I'd point that out.

Does he say anywhere in that speech or anywhere in Acts that Jesus is God or the second person of Trinity or God incarnate or.

Divine now the second person so you really expect. I mean this man Sat in Christian churches claims to be a former Christian, you know, we heard it would be played. That's why I'm no longer a Christian.

No, he was never a Christian Christian. What bothers me about Paul Williams is when I hear Muslims making Statements like this who have been who have been raised as Muslims. Okay, I get that. I Can't expect that they've ever been taught appropriately that they ever had opportunity of really knowing the truth.

You have to be patient. This man's an apostate. He was in a church. He knows better. He knows better than the things he's saying so you you just you can't view him in the same way. Because of this very issue and it's it's it's a shame.

That is the subject of the debate and I submit that he did not say that now whether or not he was crucified.

Resurrected is a fascinating discussion. It's a fascinating discussion. Which he would never engage. I bet you he will never debate anybody on that subject, but he'll never debate anybody on subject. Because he knows that every single person that he cites Richard Balcom For example would all say the exact same thing that one of the best Documented realities of history is a crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

He knows that. So there's got to be somewhere within his mind that he goes. I can't go there there's just got to be.

This is supposed to be a debate about Jesus as God is irrelevant. It is incidental to me whether or not Jesus rose from the dead if we worship Jesus today as God. And he was a man. We are committing adultery idolatry even adultery idolatry even.

What's the assumption there if we're worshiping Jesus today as God and he was a man? Well if he was once a Christian He would know and hence have to accurately represent his former faith or be dishonest.

That we recognize that Jesus was a man. He was the God-man. But the entire silly he at one point You know talks about God cannot die. Jesus died therefore. Jesus is not God. It is so simplistic. It is that that is not argumentation meant to communicate anything to any of the former members of his former Church.

That's not meant to communicate to Christians. Because Christians know better. We know our faith better than that. That is argumentation for your own side and when you're in a debate and all you're doing is going rah-rah-rah to your own side.

What does that tell you. What does that say about your your perspective? What does that say about your stance in regards to truth?

Which is a serious sin in Judaism as it is in Islam.

That's the issue a debate by the way. Idolatry is a very serious sin in.

Christianity as well. Christians are trying to get off that subject.

Christians are trying to get off that subject. Paul Williams, I challenged you to debate that subject. So don't tell me. Christians are trying to get off that subject. That's just again utterly disarm.

From acts. From here was the challenge. Can Pete does Peter anywhere in acts. Say this. Here is Acts chapter 3. Now Chris Green gets up.

He gets to comment on the audience questions as well. Unfortunately, Paul Williams volume is lower than Chris Green's so you're gonna have to listen carefully to hear what he says. Now, let me give you let me just go ahead and read for you the text because it is a beautiful text I gotta admit, you know Just thinking about this text once again Reminded me and if you've if you've been a Christian for really any period of time You've had this experience as long as you're one that seriously seeks to read and understand the Bible you You've probably read the entire Bible or at least all the New Testament.

And you've read certain books multiple times and You go back to a text and You read it and you know, you've read this and you recall reading it and you might even have some notes in your Bible or Something like that.

I Had a friend back in st. Louis. I was looking at his Bible and Man, I've never seen so many notes in a Bible. It's to the point where honestly It's next to impossible to read almost anything in the New Testament and there's almost as much in the Old Testament.

I mean, here is someone who reads their Bible. It's great. Little cluttered for my taste, but it's great but you read the text again and All of a sudden Yeah, I've read these words. Yeah, I thought about these words, but there's just there's just something that just Flies out at you and All of a sudden the text that you've read dozens of times before Shoots up your list of favorite texts of texts that have incredible meaning to you and here in Acts chapter 3 Begin verse 12 when Peter saw it, you know, he's it's the healing of the of the man in the in the temple and While he clung to Peter and John all the people utterly astound ran together to them in the portico called Solomon's and when Peter saw it He addressed the people he took advantage of an opportunity of witness men of Israel.

Why do you wonder at this or why do you stare at us as though by our own power or piety? We have made him walk the God of Abraham the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob the God of our fathers Glorified his servant Jesus whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate when he had decided to release him now.

Let's Let's go through this slowly. Shall we? I mean, I love teaching the word and it is. This is an this is a pretty important section. Notice what Peter's doing. Peter doesn't see himself as having started a new religion or being a part of a new religion.

He says the God of our fathers the God of Abraham the God of Isaac the God of Jacob the God of our fathers glorified. And yeah, that's that's Doc Sanzo glorified his servant Jesus. Whom you Delivered over paradiddle me Could also be translated as betrayed.

But to deliver up Whom you delivered up and They did us they did something else as well. They denied him they denied him the Greek term is our net am I and That's the same term that Interestingly enough in the last program when someone said if we deny him, he also will deny us our net am I to deny so there is delivering up and There is the denial Before the face of Pilate presence of Pilate.

When he had decided to release him now. What's interesting is in what we're gonna listen to Paul Williams is gonna make some comments. Unfortunately, Chris Green he's he's under time constraints. You do this and it would have been a little better if he had started at verse 14.

I. Actually, I think he did but at verse 13, so you'd have the context but you denied The Holy and Righteous One now that is our net am I now it has just been said that Jesus was the one that you Delivered over and denied.

So in the preceding verse the object of denied is Jesus so logically It would seem that in verse 14. It says but you denied The Holy and Righteous One and Asked for a murderer a Fanea to be given over or granted to you so Then look at the contrast that is provided.

You denied the Holy and Righteous One. You asked for a sinner. So you had someone who was holy and righteous someone who was undefiled and Then you asked for a murderer someone who's under the just condemnation of the law you asked for a murder to be granted to you and You killed what who kills a murderer?

But who did you kill. Tonday are K gone taste zoe's. The author of life. The author of life who was given over Jesus who is denied Jesus Verse 14, but you denied the Holy and Righteous One. That's Jesus and You killed the author of life whom God raised from the dead to this.

We are martyrs Martyrs S men we are martyrs we are witnesses and his name by faith in his name has made this man strong whom you see and know and The faith that is through Jesus has given this man this perfect health in the presence of you all.

Jesus is the focus all the way through but listen to that phrase. The Archaic on the author of life. Now you're gonna hear Paul Williams say it doesn't mean his deity. Let me his deity. Well, let me just ask a simple little question here and I don't know how many times I've repeated it, but I'm gonna repeat it again because Repetition is the mother of memory.

Don't as a believer allow yourself to be put in a position Where you are constantly having to give an answer and not making sure the other side has to answer to the same subjects in other words. Think about it.

From our perspective it makes perfect sense For Jesus to be called the author of life. He's the author of life in the sense that he's. Well, how's he described in Isaiah 9 he's the Tsar Shalom the Prince of Peace.

He is the one who brings about peace Through his sacrificial death. That's how he establishes that peace and Here he's the author of life the very life that we have as John had put it and interestingly enough.

Here's a clear connection between the substance of Johannine Teaching and the apostolic proclamation of the earliest period over against the critical theories that Turned John into something else which are of course repeated uncritically by Paul Williams.

John chapter 5. He has been given to have life within himself. No mere creature is the archaic on tastes a ways. The author of life. By his sacrifice by his Ministerial work he provides life. Yes, and he's the one who raises the dead and He's the one through whom all things were made as Paul says in first Corinthians 8 5 and 6 we exist by him and through him.

So there is perfect consistency. Peter John Paul. No reason to try to put divisions there, but what and what an incredible phrase the author of life and what an amazing Place to put it in. You killed the author of life.

There's so much to be thought about there. I mean Is that even possible it does come up in this debate. You're actually saying God died. Still it's the same old same old and we'll get to it and we will have to criticize Williams once again for Adopting a view of death that wouldn't have been his as a Christian or a Muslim but There are Muslims going well, I understand how God can die.

Well God doesn't cease to exist but the God man can give his life. That's the whole purpose. The incarnation in the first place doesn't mean he ceases to exist. But he is the author of life and how. What what more of a commentary.

Could you need on? The depravity of man. Than to think about the fact that the author of life Enters into his own creation. And what do we do with him? We put him to death. Is that not the essence of the contrast between light and darkness?

We love darkness, he's too bright he's bringing light extinguish the light. But as soon as he says You killed the author of life whom? Han hot they asked a Gator and ek necron. He raised him from God raised him from the dead and Of this we are martyrs.

We are Witnesses. What an incredible how could Those words Fit into a Muslim context. That's why I was saying don't. Whatever you do you have to keep in your mind? They must answer these questions. If they're gonna quote these texts, then they have to answer these questions, too and There isn't a Muslim alive.

Okay, I'll take that back. There isn't a an Orthodox Muslim alive who could call Jesus The Holy and Righteous One and the author of life in the context. It's used in Acts chapter 3. You couldn't do it.

You couldn't do it. Jesus is not the author of life for Muslims. He was the Jewish Messiah, they're not really sure what that means as We'll see he was a Jewish Messiah, but you know It says in Matthew 15 24 that he was only sent the lost sheep the house of Israel.

So it's not it's not for anybody else. Of course, that is a gross abuse of the text as we will point out, but the point is They would never They could not possibly believe that this is what Peter actually said.

Did Peter identify Jesus as the author of life and guarantee you Muhammad was not the author of life? Muhammad wasn't the author of life, but Jesus was. Jesus is the author of life, so there's the text sorry about that started preaching again, but I just I Have a feeling that there's a Coffee mug or a tie coming with this text.

I just wish I had artistic capacity. I do not. But I've got this tie in mind with this text. I just need to find someone who has artistic Capacity to make it work. I just I can just see it in my mind.

It's sort of frustrating to I Can see it just can't make it just can't make it appear anywhere. So anyways, there's there's the text. So now let's listen to how Chris Green presented.

The God of Abraham the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob the God of our fathers. Glorified his servant Jesus. You can see it all that we can go on to that if you want to. Whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate whom he had decided to release him.

But you denied the holy and righteous one. That's title for God if you wish and that's not. And now just catch that. No, it's not.

No, it's not really That's that's that's okay, so I Guess his art. Let me make try to make his argument for him and The idea is there can be Human beings who are Holy and righteous Just as there are were other people other than Jesus who were called Messiah.

He's gonna point that out as well. See that the Muslims have this real problem. Son of God, well other people called son of God, so it doesn't really mean anything but applied to Jesus. Well, there is son of God.

But Then you have the Son of God in a unique way. There were anointed ones, but then you have the Messiah in a unique way. You have holy and righteous men, but then you have the holy and righteous one who is denied and Put to death.

So the idea is on their side. Their argument is well other people were like that so he can't be unique. Once you put it in that sense you go well, wait a minute. So because there are many basketball players Michael Jordan wasn't the best.

There wasn't the Michael Jordan because there are other people named Michael Jordan that go out and shoot baskets really. That's the logic behind it. But that's what we keep hearing from these folks Doesn't make a lick of sense, but that's that's how it goes.

I'd ask for a murderer to be granted to you and you killed the author of life. Is what Peter. No, listen, but I was asked for evidence.

Now to catch that that's not evidence he was called. That's not evidence that he was called. Well, pray tell mr. Williams what's that evidence of. If Paul if Peter viewed Jesus in the way that you say He viewed Jesus then you tell me.

Would he put what he described Jesus in this way? Yes or no? That's the kind of argument that has to be put this man.

I was asked for evidence that Peter preached that Jesus was God and yet died. You killed the author of life is what Peter says. I put it to you ladies and gentlemen. You may disagree with what Peter said.

You may disagree with Luke saying it. You may think the whole thing is a fabrication. But that's the New Testament teaches it in that very book. That Paul said he didn't is true.

The Sanctity of Human Life and the Incarnation

Now one of the reasons that I want to play that is You know, I've picked on Chris Green on a couple of things. You don't turn to people in rebuttals. Give them their time, etc, etc but that was very well done and Turretin fan yesterday wrote a blog article Noting that element of the exchange itself and He then expanded on evidences in regards to that particular text.

You might want to take a look at on his website. So I want to play that for you and sort of join that together with looking briefly anyways at Acts chapter 3 and I know it's it's not a quote-unquote Christmas theme.

But I think there is In my mind anyways a real connection between thinking about The description of Jesus and I. I love I love van Lee's. I love the folks at Covenant of Grace Church. I wrote to van said, you know van.

I'd really like to have a copy of what I did Sunday night in mp3 to post it for the Christmas season and of course Vans response was I'll send you a copy and in other words It's coming by snail mail because that's That's the most advanced mechanism of transmission that that van has I'm afraid.

Not like oh here. I'll file attach, you know. You know an mp3 for you, you know that kind of thing. No, at least the guy can use a computer. Well, yeah, yeah, but Yeah, I know. Anyway, love those folks.

Love those folks, but I Do hope to get that stuff, but I did a study of Isaiah chapter 9 and especially the Just that incredible text. I love doing that around the Christmas season. But it just strikes me.

There's just something so incredible to think about the author of life. Being born Entering into human existence. You know, there's one thing that You you cannot Dare not notice about that. If you want a reason to recognize the sanctity of human life there it is.

There it is. I mean Secularism does not offer you any Reason what so ever to honor the sanctity of life none. You are a the random Chance result of the collision of molecules. You have no transcendent purpose.

Stalin was just doing what Stalin was doing. There's nothing right or wrong and a secular worldview on that outside of opinion polls and that's what's so sad about our society. Selling its birthright.

Selling its worth out to the despicable shallow worldview of secularism. It's just disgusting. But you want a reason to recognize the sanctity and worth of human life. God Not only created it. He took the time to enter into it to redeem it.

There you have a foundation. There you have a reason For opposing the culture of death. Breaks my heart. Absolutely breaks my heart. I Was struck with it. You know, my son was born seven weeks early and in 1986 that was you know, that was that was still pretty early.