What does Anabaptist (Jason Breda) believe about salvation?

Open Air Theology

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:36

You can say what you want, but you won't around me.

01:10

Black sheep among misfits, a misfit in the trailer park at night.

01:16

A misprint with the sixth sense, been sick ever since my brother died of an O .D.

01:22

My two cents never made sense, either to me or anyone else inside of the sheep fence.

01:27

My 9th Smith on my right side, why you staring at your cop dot sign?

01:32

My John Hancock on the dotted line, tell me what's the bottom line? The bottom line is

01:38

I'm not right. I'm not left, but this elephant won't fight. There's nothing left but the spotlight.

01:44

Hold my beer, you can find me in the moonlight. You can say what you want, but you won't around me.

01:53

You can say what you want, but you won't around me. I'm wits in the deep end and I can't find my assigned seat to sit in.

02:05

My theology don't fit in. Black sheep of the reformation sheep pen. To the reformed,

02:10

I'm just another Baptist baptized again. The bastard child of Anabaptists, host to child of reformation society.

02:19

We don't need your education. Give me a Bible and a bookshelf of dead men.

02:25

Cigars, bourbons, and beer cans. Bow ties, tattoos, and bearded men. Making reformation great again.

02:33

You can say what you want, but you won't around me.

02:39

All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the

02:49

Open Air Theology Show. My name is Jeff. I am one of the hosts here for Open Air Theology.

02:55

I am also one of the pastor elders at Covenant Reform Baptist Church in Tallahoma, Tennessee.

03:02

If you're ever out and about in Tennessee, especially Tallahoma, please come check out your boy.

03:09

Love to have you. Love to worship the Lord with you. I'm going to pass it down to this guy right here.

03:16

Yeah, I am Pastor Braden Patterson of Valley Baptist Church here in southern

03:23

Idaho, Hagerman, Idaho. If you live in near the area, be a real blessing for you to come worship God with us on the

03:29

Lord's Day at 11 a .m. Today was a blessed day to be able to preach Christ crucified. And yeah,

03:36

I have a YouTube channel called Reformed Ex -Mormon. Go check that out and absolutely blessed to be a co -host here of Open Air Theology.

03:42

And I will that way. Hey, my name is Tom Shepard with Grace Bible Church in Birney.

03:49

I'm a member there and the head of the evangelism team. We go out and share the gospel in the streets of San Antonio, Birney, Fredericksburg.

03:57

And if you're looking for a church, we just announced today that September 1st, we're going to be having services morning and evening.

04:04

So if you don't have a place to go, especially in the evening, come visit us. And I'm glad to be here as a co -host of Open Air Theology.

04:14

All right, all right, all right. So how was everybody's Lord's Day today? It was very good.

04:21

It's always good. What was your pastor teaching on today? So he actually did a special sermon.

04:29

He's been in Romans 13 lately, and he was talking about the exceptions of when not to obey.

04:37

And when the government overreaches their authority. And he took a break from that, and he wanted to introduce and gave a case for why we shouldn't just worship

04:48

Christ on the Lord's Day morning. But the Lord's Day should be a day, a total day of set apart, you know, even in the evening.

04:59

So he was making the case of why we ought to go ahead and get back to worshiping the

05:04

Lord on the evening as well. So I was excited to hear about that. My wife and I have been praying about that and really wanted to see us get into a church that has an evening worship service.

05:16

So we're excited. Very cool. Very cool. What about you, Brian? How was your

05:21

Lord's Day? Oh, it was a real blessing to be able to gather with the saints here in Hagerman and just the surrounding areas.

05:29

We just preached on Galatians 2 .20. I have been crucified with Christ.

05:36

It was just, it was a wonderful text to be able to be in. And then we had a business meeting after. And so there was some productive conversation that we had with the members here.

05:44

And so, yeah, praise the Lord. Really, really good Lord's Day. I got off of work this morning to say

05:50

I was tired. It'd be an understatement. So did you get a nap in today? I did.

05:55

I did finally get a nap in. Praise the Lord for that. I feel much better now. I was a little grumpy and tired, angry.

06:06

So yeah, no doubt, no doubt. My Lord's Day was pretty good. I had a really bad eye headache right above my right eye.

06:15

I had to stop as I was preaching and ask people to pray for me because I was struggling. It was as if someone was to stick their finger, like if you stick your finger right above your eye and just kind of push in, that's kind of what it was feeling like.

06:32

And I was struggling. And so I felt like I was struggling through the message. Apparently it went good.

06:39

Everyone said it was good. But I felt like I was just dropping the ball in the pulpit. And for the most part, it was just because my head was hurting.

06:48

I'd look down to look at my notes. I could see two or three words. And I'd have to try to remember everything else

06:54

I said about it. It was a struggle. But other than that, the fellowship was good.

07:00

We had probably seven or eight members out. But we had some visiting families.

07:09

And it was a packed house. So it was good. Good deal. Yeah, it was good.

07:16

Yeah, and one of the guys that was visiting, he brought his whole family. I mean, it was a big, large family.

07:23

Cool. I think him, his wife, and like four, five, six kids, man, it was big. And it was older kids.

07:30

And as he was leaving, he just let me know that he was blessed.

07:36

He was convicted. And he prays that the Lord will just grow our church in such a way that it busts us from the seams.

07:44

Amen. So I took encouragement in that. It was good, man.

07:51

And I've preached three verses, John chapter 12, verses 9, 10, and 11.

08:02

Yeah, so next week will be on the triumphant entrance. So excited about that.

08:09

Yeah. Nice. That will be good. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So today we're talking about what?

08:16

Anabaptist? Are we talking about Anabaptist or are we talking about Jason Breda?

08:22

I think they're one and the same. I think they're one and the same. You know, I've never seen them both in the same room together.

08:30

Yeah, so I guess we didn't know that he was Anabaptist when you actually even debated him, right?

08:37

Well, I did, but I didn't know exactly. I didn't know every, which

08:43

I still don't know every detail that Anabaptists believe, because there's several different works out there.

08:49

And for the last few weeks, I've been messaging him and sending him videos, asking questions about what it is that he believes about certain things.

09:00

And I just don't think he even knew at the time. And so he just recently sent me some links to what it is that Anabaptists teach.

09:12

And I can say this, unlike Reformed Baptists or Presbyterian, the answer was just all over the board.

09:21

So with everything that I saw concerning, I mean, they were similar, but it was different at the same time.

09:27

You know what I'm saying? Well, so let me ask you. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. So is Leighton Flowers, is he

09:34

Anabaptist? No, Leighton Flowers is actually Southern Baptist, which I would really like to take

09:40

Leighton Flowers through the Baptist Faith and Message Article 4 on regeneration, and see if he agrees with that.

09:50

But they team up together for some reason and attack Calvinists.

09:56

Yeah, so that's something else. So you got this anti -Calvinist crew that's out there, right?

10:05

And whenever you, and they're all going against Calvinism, they link up together and they have, you know, they do videos together that go against Calvinism.

10:16

However, each one of them, as far as I know, each one of them, there might be a couple of them that host to the same theological view, but each one of them, as far as I can tell, have a different theological view.

10:28

And if you were to talk about any other subject outside of Calvinism, they probably would fight each other.

10:35

So they don't even agree with each other is what you're saying. Right. Well, the one thing they do agree about is that they don't like Calvinism is wrong.

10:45

Yeah, because, you know, like for those of you that heard the debate and these two gentlemen can attest to it, that I did not debate

10:55

Leighton Flowers. I debated Jason Brita, but I debated Leighton Flowers because, you know, all he did was regurgitate everything that Leighton would have said.

11:11

I mean, to study for the debate, all I did was listen to Leighton Flowers. And let me tell you, there's only so much you can handle.

11:24

I was going crazy. Now my YouTube feed is full of Leighton Flowers. I do love you, man, but come on now.

11:40

So, yeah, that's, you know, and I really would like I would really like to throw a match as they're all gathering together, kind of like a match in the rubble and catch it all on fire, like bring up a question.

11:59

Okay, well, you're talking about this, but what about this? Because like some of the guys that are a part of it are

12:05

Greek Orthodox, like one of the main guys that's anti -Calvinist that's with them is a

12:12

Greek Orthodox. That's interesting.

12:18

It's almost like they would disagree on essential areas of the faith. So essentially saying,

12:25

I don't have any fellowship with you, but yet I'll have fellowship with you over attacking

12:31

Calvinism. Right. Man, that's not good. So one of the things that I was puzzled by is because when they were talking about the

12:41

Leighton Flowers or the Leightonists, the Providence graphic that you had had, and they were talking about eternal security,

12:49

Leighton Flowers would hold to eternal security, which Calvinists would, but Braden would not.

12:56

Yeah. So Jason Breda, that's what he said. Jason Breda would not. It sounded like he said

13:01

Braden would not. He did say Braden. He did say Braden. Jason Breda. Don't you be putting that even on me. Did I do that?

13:07

Oh, yeah. You said me. I was like, wait, what a second. No, no, I definitely believe it. So Braden does.

13:13

So yeah. So Jason Breda, Breda, Breda? Breda. Breda. I don't know. I don't even know now, right?

13:19

Jason. Jason, you don't believe in eternal security. Breda. Okay. Breda. With the cockatoo.

13:27

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he told me that he holds to everything that provide had, except for the eternal security.

13:39

And I was like, what? And then that's what made me start looking into Anabaptists.

13:46

And again, I've listened to enough Anabaptists to last a lifetime.

13:51

Well, what's funny is today at our church, we had a guy who came and visit who is a

13:58

Reformed Baptist, but he came out of the Anabaptist movement and he even said that it's heretical.

14:07

Yep. Yeah. And so if you ever - In terms of how they believe people are saved.

14:14

Yeah. Yeah. Correct. And like the roots run deep. So you have like, what seems to be this modern

14:20

Anabaptist movement, but if you know anything about Quakers, the Amish, the

14:25

Brethren, they're all Anabaptists. Like you start chasing the roots that hook to this tree trunk.

14:33

It's crazy. Yeah. But the main thing that I want us to do today, if y 'all, so I know

14:42

I sent y 'all some, we have some video and Brayden has some timestamp parts in it.

14:50

And then I also sent a picture of that statement concerning salvation from the statement he sent me.

15:01

So it's basically like the statement of belief. And I took a screenshot of it. I sent it to the group.

15:07

And so if y 'all want to put that up first, or if you want to go through one of the time mark videos, either way,

15:14

I'm fine. So I think it'd be wise to put up this first, just to show people what we are talking about when it comes to this.

15:22

Let me hit present, share screen, share screen, window, bam.

15:34

Is that? Yep. Go ahead and pull that up, Jeff. Let me get a chance. So this is the screenshot that Jeff sent me.

15:44

I also have it on their website that we could scroll through too, but this is the specific section that we are wanting to talk about is on salvation right here.

15:54

I think it'd probably be wise to read the entire statement so that then it's not been taken out of context from their own confession.

16:01

But this comes right from the website that Breda sent to you, right? Yep. Now this is what

16:08

Breda himself sent to me. So everybody watching this tonight, put on your thinking glasses, put on your exegetical tennis shoes, and let's work our way through this.

16:20

Yeah, because here's the thing. If you're just reading this and you are not paying attention, or you don't really have a real good grasp of it, have a theological background, you couldn't over look at this.

16:34

I know when I read it the first time, I didn't quite see it, but I knew something didn't sound right.

16:39

But when I read through it the second time, I was like, Oh, I missed it. All right.

16:46

So it says in here, salvation is a free gift of God's grace based on the work of Jesus Christ.

16:53

So far, so good. Yep. The shedding of His blood on the cross, His resurrection, and present intercessory ministry, and the ministry of the

17:07

Holy Spirit. Those who receive God's gift of salvation by faith become children of God, justified in their relationship to God, sanctified in their walk and work, and secure in an ongoing faith expressed and fostered by obedience to Christ.

17:38

We'll come back to that. Justification is extended to all people in regard to theodemic guilt and by personal repentance and faith in Jesus Christ and His provision in regard to personal guilt.

17:52

Now, concerning the debate that we have, it didn't seem like he even acknowledged edemic guilt.

18:00

Right. Yeah. You recall that? It didn't seem like what happened with Adam.

18:06

He was making it sound like a personal action of sin is what made you guilty, that you chose to sin instead of being guilty by association of Adam's guilt, sin by nature.

18:19

He did not believe that we were guilty by nature, that we were born and we chose to sin.

18:27

Yeah. We're guilty by our sin only, not by the fall of Adam. In other words, we didn't inherit

18:33

Adam's sin is what he... Correct. We're not by nature children of Adam.

18:39

Right. Yeah. All right. So, if you go... So, he even disagrees with this. Right.

18:45

Yeah. I mean... Part of it. Yeah. I don't know. So, yeah, he would have to, or maybe he would.

18:52

Maybe he would just say he misspoke. I'm not sure. But that's what happens if you're just regurgitating from a Southern Baptist who doesn't even,

18:59

I believe, doesn't even hold to his own confession, the Baptist faith, the message. I mean, as vague as it is sometimes in some places, it's one of the most essential views of...

19:11

When it comes to the central views of Christianity, it's really a good document. I mean, there's some spots in it where I would have said different, but I think it's a really good document.

19:24

And I would say that about my own... I would say that about the 1689 as well. Right. I think 1689 is the greatest document ever written in a short systematic form of theology, but there's things in it that I would have said different.

19:40

All right. So, if you just look right here after the Holy Spirit, so in the second section, it says, to those who receive

19:49

God's gift of salvation by faith. So, we receive this gift of salvation by faith, become children of God, justified in their relationship to God.

20:03

And right here is where it starts to get... Well, I have a problem with that a little bit too, but right here is where it gets rocky.

20:12

Sanctified in their work, walk in work, sanctified.

20:18

So, a person is sanctified by their own walk and work and secure in their ongoing faith expressed and fostered by obedience to Christ.

20:36

We are not secure because of Christ. We are secure because of obedience.

20:43

That's right. This is what you call pat your back theology, right?

20:49

The bootstrap theology. That's what this is right here, ladies and gentlemen. Exactly. Yeah. This is pietism at its finest.

20:58

Absolutely. So, it sounds like here, according to this, is that it's really dependent on me to keep my salvation to be right.

21:09

Well, it's up to you to get yourself saved. Yeah. Because you and of yourself have to believe, you have to conjure up this faith so you can be born again, to have an everlasting life that isn't everlasting because you can lose it if you're not walking out your faith and work.

21:33

So, how does it put it? You're justified in your relationship to God, sanctified in their walk and work and ongoing faith.

21:46

Right. So, I wonder what their definition of justification is because I've always been told, always been taught, you guys correct me if I'm wrong, that justification is the point when

21:58

God, I'm sure you will, Jason, that justification is at a point in time when

22:07

God actually declares a person righteous. A legal declaration, you are righteous based on Christ's personal work and his sacrifice and his atoning work on the cross and his resurrection.

22:19

Yeah. That's when a person is made right with God. Right. So, God, we are justified by faith.

22:28

God did that. We didn't do that. God did that. God declares us righteous, correct? Yep. Right.

22:34

Right. Okay. Yeah. In fact, this is hitting very hard at home for myself because I'm currently preaching through the book of Galatians, which is dealing with justification by faith alone in Christ alone.

22:49

It's dealing directly and opposing those that are saying either you're initially saved by works like circumcision or obedience to Moses, or you are maintained in salvation through your obedience, like circumcision or the law of Moses.

23:08

And so, it is truly this Anabaptist, and I think we're going to see it here, especially in a moment.

23:14

This is modern day Judaizers. Galatians 3 .1,

23:20

O foolish Anabaptists, O foolish Galatians, who bewitched you before whose eyes

23:28

Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Listen, they have the same 66 books of the

23:35

Bible. They have it in their confession that they list out that they believe in God's word.

23:41

And who has bewitched you to fall into such foolishness? Right. Yeah. They're preaching a different gospel.

23:48

Right. It is a thousand percent. This right here will condemn you to hell. This will, this will condemn you to hell.

23:54

It's workspace salvation. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And so, I want to read first Corinthians chapter one, verse 30.

24:02

Verse 30 says this, because of him, you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, let the one who boasts, boast in the

24:26

Lord. Right. And that right there goes against everything that's written in this portion where it explains

24:36

Anabaptist salvation because of him. Galatians 3 .2,

24:42

just right after the verse that I just read. This is the only thing I want to learn from you.

24:48

Did you receive the spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith?

24:55

Are you so foolish? Having begun, having begun by the spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

25:03

Yeah, this is this is a thousand percent a modern Judaizer package that we see here.

25:10

Like I'm not even listen. So I love I love Jason Breda.

25:16

Right. I love him as a man, as a person. He's very kind and all that.

25:22

And I said that night that I, you know, I would receive Jason Breda as a brother.

25:30

I'm I'm not so sure now after studying this theology that I that I can with confidence receive

25:40

Jason as a brother in Christ. These are essential, essential doctrines that we're talking about right now.

25:47

This is scary stuff because Jason Breda has a YouTube channel called

25:52

Living Christian, where he's talking about how Christians are to live. And guess what? He is he is demonstrating by holding to this confession.

26:00

He is teaching Christians to. This is so scary. They live in Judea, my obedience.

26:07

Right. That's that's not are we being perfected by the flesh? Are we being perfected by the works of the law?

26:14

No, no, we are not. Hebrews 13, verse seven or verse nine.

26:20

I mentioned it today in my in my sermon. See to it that you are not swayed by varied and strange teachings.

26:30

Yeah, this is contrary to the gospel. And this will destroy individuals that hold this.

26:35

It is scary. And and it's being it's sad that it's being taught.

26:41

It's sad that it's being held to. Yeah, it's awful.

26:47

Like I said, whenever he mentioned like, you know, as we were in this debate and let me answer

26:55

Alex real quick, Alex, I will send the I'll post the link to the debate in the comments.

27:01

Or if you message me, I'll send you the link to the debate. You just keep on worrying about your stuff.

27:07

I'll get it sent to him right now. All right. OK, I appreciate it. Yeah. So whenever whenever I was doing the debate with him and, you know, there were certain questions that I would ask and it would lead me to believe that, you know, like I heard him, you know, he was basically regurgitating latent flowers.

27:26

But also every once in a while I would he would say something or I would see something in the way that he was arguing that he was much different from latent flowers.

27:37

And then when he admitted to not hold into eternal security, I knew that I had to to to to dive into what it is that Anabaptists believe.

27:50

And and to my shock, I mean, you can ask these guys and I kind of touched on it a little bit that I was shocked about what

27:58

I was finding out. But as I was sending these guys links to certain messages or like a link to a statement of faith of what he believes, like we were like, whoa, like it's it's much worse than we imagined it would be.

28:19

So latent flowers would hold to we are saved. We are saved through by by faith alone in Christ No, he would not.

28:31

Do we want to get into the video right now? I'm saying Layton, not Jason. Oh, I thought you said

28:37

Jason. My fault. I don't know about Layton. So Layton and his soteriology, right?

28:43

He I mean, again, I would like to question him if I had the opportunity concerning concerning Article four of this of the so of the

28:54

Baptist faith and message dealing with regeneration to see if he would hold to what that states about regeneration.

29:04

But I just don't believe he holds to his own confession fully. And, you know, that's fine or whatever, because like the way that he kind of lays it out when it comes to it, that every man has it's not that he's responsible, but he's response able is how he would explain it.

29:25

Right. Meaning that every man has the ability to respond to God.

29:31

Right. And the substance of his faith, he would affirm that it is in Christ alone for eternal life, the personal work of Christ alone.

29:42

Yes. Jason would not. And that's what makes Layton flowers. That's why I was still consider at this moment

29:49

Layton flowers to be a brother. Absolutely. Even though I think he's got, you know. Right.

29:54

He's got some issues going on with his theology. How that carries out would where would be where we would differ.

30:00

But we would still call him a brother. Yeah. Now, what really makes me irritable with Layton flowers is that he doesn't believe that when a person is regenerated, whenever they're you know, whenever they're born again, that that is a an active work of God.

30:19

So he would say that the active work of God was Christ living the life, dying the death, being buried, rose again, that that was the work, that was the provision.

30:31

But we have the ability in and of ourselves to respond. Right. And so because we have the ability to respond, it's not a miracle.

30:42

It's not a. You see what I'm saying? And so that bothers me with Layton. Right.

30:48

Agree. Yeah. And I'm going to pull up this. Are you ready for this video? One second. I was going to say, too, this is something that I, you know,

30:56

I'm I've seen several times in the book of Galatians that it's just a blessing of you preaching through it so far. The Judaizers were able to influence people because it speaks right towards our flesh and our desire to want to justify ourselves before God.

31:11

And so it convinces believers into saying, oh, you know, yeah, I am active. I am participating in my salvation in regards to obtaining through what

31:20

I'm doing outside of just Christ alone. And that's exactly. So it looks like I don't know exactly where this is from, but I think it's an

31:28

Anabaptist website. It says Anabaptist reject the Lutheran doctrine of salvation by grace alone and insist that the believers inward faith must be authenticated and supplemented by outward actions.

31:40

Believers must bear the cross of discipleship, thus participating in the process of becoming reconciled with God and creation.

31:49

So they they deny grace alone. This is right.

31:54

This is outside of essentials. This is outside of. Right. I'm not sure if they could hold to any one of the solace.

32:03

No, I wouldn't think so at all. It's essentially that they got rid of the pope.

32:09

Right. And they're saying what. But we still agree with all their principles of of that. It's Christ, faith and grace.

32:15

But it's not those things alone. Right. So, yeah, it's it's heresy.

32:22

Yeah. Good luck. It's beyond anything I thought it was in that video that you're getting ready to play.

32:30

He says some pretty wild stuff. Yeah. So, yeah, let's you can pull that up now,

32:36

Jeff, if you want. So this isn't just us talking about this. This is this is according to what they believe.

32:43

So let's look at. Yeah. I mean, just in the first few seconds of the video, it kind of like punches you right in the face if you hold to the solace.

32:52

Right. I wanted to see if I could do this without any flat out denies what

32:57

Luther says. Correct. Yeah. All right. I'm in play. Well, I can't hear it.

33:07

Oh, you can't. No, no. Oh, give me a second. And hit stop screen sharing and try this again.

33:15

Present. We've got an audience. We're going to you were Raiden's fault.

33:20

This is not my fault. Don't you? I'm not the kind of guy that would throw someone under the bus.

33:25

Y 'all know me, but, you know, try that now. Let's see if this works.

33:31

Georgia. Yeah, you're right. Fostered by obedience is the problem, not in Christ alone. Is that sound for, you know?

33:38

No, I don't hear anything. Man, wait, wait, go back over your volume there.

33:46

Yeah. Yeah. Now click it all the way up. No, it's all the way up here.

33:51

Let me let me do this again. Doing it again. Yes.

34:00

Also share. I mean, I got tinnitus. I can't hear it.

34:06

I mean, I hear a loud ring, but I can't hear anything. OK, do that now. Ready?

34:16

Is that it? Yeah. OK, I just want to pause here and let you guys know this is what this is not a reformed beard.

34:25

Don't be deceived if you see this on the streets. That's a gay beard. Yeah, this guy is

34:34

Anabaptist. He teaches Anabaptist doctrine. Correct. You see this? Yes. You see this?

34:40

This is a Mennonite, a Quaker or an Anabaptist beard. Don't don't don't trust the theology coming from this beard.

34:48

That looks like a toupee beard. You know, it kind of looks like the guy from Right Response's beard.

34:55

Did you guys ever see Rudy? It does, huh? You know, Rudy, the

35:00

Rudy, Rudy, the little football player, the Cowboys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He looks like that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:06

You know, it looks like he like he should have hair right here, but he's balding right here. And it just happens to be his face.

35:13

Like this is the don't. It's so weird. Yes. If your theology is wrong, we will make fun of you.

35:19

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And if your theology is right, we'll make fun of you, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're equal opportunists when it comes to making fun of folks.

35:26

There's no distinction between Jew or Gentile when it comes to the gospel. Also, with jokes, there's no distinction.

35:32

So there's this. Yeah. We don't care if you're a reformed Baptist, Presbyterian or one of those disbees. Yeah. You get made fun of.

35:38

Okay. We don't play. Wait, Melissa's here. I just saw her. Hey, Melissa. Disbee, you silly disbee.

35:51

All right. You guys ready? Yeah. Let's roll. Okay. Okay. Salvation is not about getting a ticket to heaven.

36:00

Many of our reformed theology friends work as if this is what it is.

36:07

You get saved. You have an experience of getting saved and praise God you're in.

36:13

But the New Testament does not teach that. Many of our people have bought that idea.

36:19

I had that idea whenever I came, but I had to unlearn that idea because that's not what the

36:24

New Testament teaches. Salvation is about a real savior.

36:31

Savior from sin. He's also a living Lord who is in at the work of delivering human beings from the power of sin.

36:41

That's what salvation is. Stop. Okay. What did he leave out?

36:47

So salvation is delivering us from the power of sin. What did he leave out?

36:56

Being saved from the wrath of God. About being saved from the penalty of sin. That's right.

37:02

We are saved from the penalty of sin. We are guilty before a holy God. That is our standard, our standing before a holy

37:10

God and that we must be punished. So salvation is number one, being saved from the penalty of sin.

37:19

But he skips over the penalty of sin and goes right to the power of sin, which

37:24

I would agree, but that's just one aspect of it. Hey, can we real quick talk about, so Jason -

37:31

We're not done yet. Okay. Do you want me to keep on hitting play for a moment or what are we doing? Oh, hey, Jason.

37:36

What's up, man? So we'll answer Jason in a minute. We'll get back to that, Jason. It's not this.

37:43

I get a ticket to happen. There's a once and done type salvation experience. It's a redemptive process.

37:51

Is that a word you use? Exactly. It begins. It has a beginning moment or moments, but then it's a process of continuing to cooperate with the

38:03

Holy Spirit as he sanctifies our lives. That's what we mean by the living Lord delivering us from the power of sin and nobody ever gets completely sanctified before the end.

38:16

Okay. So we were saved. We are being saved and we will be saved.

38:25

There's salvation as a trinity. We'll look more of that as we go along. The essence of this whole thing is that the power of sin is broken.

38:35

Now our reform friends think that that is too ideal because they don't believe that the power of sin can really be broken.

38:44

And we believe that the scriptures teach that it must be. There's a lot there. Yeah. There's just a lot there.

38:51

Like I'm over here writing stuff down. I can't even keep up. First of all, it's not a trinity.

38:59

Being saved to be saved is not a trinity. There's nothing outside of the

39:04

Godhead that is trinity. There's nothing that is one and three. All right.

39:10

He's trying to explain it in the way that they are. When you're being saved, that is to be justified.

39:19

Being saved is you being sanctified. To be saved is you being glorified.

39:25

Those who are saved are being saved and will be saved. Meaning those who are justified will be sanctified and will be conformed to the image of Christ, which is glorification.

39:37

Right. Let's not get this confused. It's not one thing with three different aspects to it.

39:47

There's nothing Trinitarian about it. Right.

39:52

We would say that when we are saved, we are saved from past sins, present sins, and future sins.

39:59

But are we not? Yeah. And that includes what you were talking about earlier, the penalty of sin.

40:07

If we are not saved in the moment of justification of the penalty of sin, every one of us are in deep doo -doo.

40:15

Right. Regeneration is given by faith. We're right with God. God declares us right.

40:20

Jason, that's monodruistic. I would agree with you 100 % that regeneration is all of God.

40:27

Hold on, hold on. He says that. We'll get to that. He says that, but he doesn't really say that.

40:34

He doesn't. Yeah. I know he doesn't. If you go to our debate, he denies that.

40:39

Right. Again, I love you, Jason, but I got problems.

40:47

He's inconsistent, man. Do you want me to keep on playing from here and go to my next time marker to look at something else?

40:53

I mean, if you have something else that you want to say about this, I just, man, that whole being saved, to be saved,

40:59

Trinitarian. Listen, this is reading things that are not biblical back into the

41:08

Bible. You can look at a lot of things in the world and be like, oh yeah, this is a great analogy for how this works. I mean, listen, this guy, he uses several examples like this.

41:17

Well, this is the example that we see in marriage that it works out this way, and it's this, and he talks about triangles. It's absurd at the end of the day in a lot of ways that he's approaching this and using things around us to try to explain how

41:31

God works within us. So I just don't believe that people should be using Christian words when they're trying to explain something that's not

41:40

Christian. That's right. So we also need to, I want to stress the point on the whole justification thing.

41:46

I'm going to Romans chapter five and starting at verse eight, it says, but God demonstrates his own love towards us in that while we were yet sinners,

41:56

Christ died for us. This is justification, y 'all. Much more than having been justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through him.

42:09

For if while we were enemies and reconciled to God through the death of his son, much more having been reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

42:20

Justification accomplishes that. In justification, we are declared righteous. God does that.

42:27

If God does that, we cannot lose it. We play no part in it.

42:33

God declares something. Does he repent? Does he change his mind? If you aren't faithful enough, no.

42:40

So there's nothing about this whole sanctification thing that I need to be able to keep from being saved.

42:47

And I know that's going too far, but going too far. But also, here's the thing.

42:52

So Jason would have an issue here with Romans. He has this view that, if I'm not mistaken,

43:00

Jason, please correct me. I think it's chapters nine through 11. Yeah, yeah. So maybe after 11, then the

43:07

Gentiles are brought in. Right. But this right here, if I'm not mistaken, is only speaking about the

43:13

Jews. You're talking about dispensationalism in one book, right?

43:19

I mean, he's not rightly dividing the Bible, as the mid -acts dispensationalists would say.

43:28

He is trying to rightly divide the book of Romans, and it's not right.

43:34

It's not correct. I would love to debate on that issue as well. How about Romans 8 .1?

43:39

No condemnation for those who are in Christ. Hebrews 10 .14, by the one sacrifice, he made perfect forever.

43:47

I know. How about Ephesians 1 .7? The forgiveness of sins according to the riches of God's grace.

43:53

How about the verse that I just read earlier? And because of him, God, you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that as it is written, with the one who boasts, boasting the

44:09

Lord. Right. I would say that not only is justification monergistic,

44:16

I would say that sanctification is monergistic. We actively in our life, in the same way as I would argue in justification,

44:27

I experience believing and repenting. But when I read the scriptures, I understand why it is that I believe, and why it is that I repented, because these things were gifts given to me or granted to me, by the power of God and regeneration.

44:43

And so also in my sanctification, scriptures tell me to work out my sanctification with fear and trembling.

44:50

But to know this, it is God, the one who is doing the work. How is he doing the work? Ezekiel 36, verse 27.

44:57

The Holy Spirit that is now in me is causing me to keep God's ordinances.

45:04

Right. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me.

45:11

And the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself up for me. Yeah.

45:17

Oh, wait, wait, wait. Let's read verse 21 too. I do not know, set aside the, or some translations, I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then

45:27

Christ died needlessly. If we're saying that our sanctification is a process of us seeking righteous living as a process of our salvation,

45:34

Christ died needlessly. That's right. So really, so sanctification, two things.

45:41

Positionally, when a person is justified, we are, our position is changed. We go from darkness to light, right?

45:50

Our position is completely changed. We are no longer children of wrath. We've been made alive unto

45:56

Christ. That's our position. We are created in Christ Jesus for the purpose of doing good works.

46:02

We are new men. New creatures in Christ. So that's now our position. So we are positionally sanctified.

46:11

And then also in progressive sanctification, it's God that makes us righteous.

46:18

It's God that makes us righteous. We don't make ourself righteous. God does that work in us.

46:24

And it's not by our obedience. It's already done in Christ. The active and passive obedience of Jesus Christ, without which there is no gospel.

46:35

That's right. Without which there is no gospel. Ephesians 2, obviously we know 8 and 9, but verse 10, for we hear his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which

46:48

God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Like, yeah, this is all

46:56

God's doing. Anything good, any thought, action, or deed of mine that I have done, it is because Christ was working in me.

47:04

The rest that is evil, sinful, and vile is all my responsibility. Right. Yep.

47:11

I'm telling you, this is pat yourself on the back theology. Right. It is. This is bootstrap theology.

47:17

It's pietism at best. At best. Yep. Listen again to what the confession that we read earlier says.

47:27

It says that justified in the relationship to God, sanctified in their walk and work, and secure in an ongoing faith, expressed and fostered by obedience to Christ.

47:41

It's, this is, this is, this is. It's judaism. It's judaism there.

47:47

Yeah, it's a, it's a different gospel, Jason. You're a part of a church that preaches a different gospel.

47:54

And you got to shave your mustache and get this sweet type of face. The other guy has a mustache.

48:03

He shaved it after this video though, or I'd like to think he did. Sorry. I was just trying to get to the next part here.

48:15

I was just going to go John 6, 37 to 39. And it says, all that the father gives me comes to me. And the one who comes to me,

48:22

I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, do not, not on my own will, but not the will of the will of the one who sent me.

48:30

If I made any sense there. My dyslexia you listen up to. So, but yeah,

48:35

I mean, when we come to Christ, he's not going to cast us out. This is what he said. He's coming to me. Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, my dear

48:42

Tom. Listen, listen, son. Hey, that's Jesus. And he's only speaking to the

48:48

Jews. Listen, this is what I'm dealing with. When it comes to this, the

48:54

Kevin guy that you remember, the Kevin who was trying to do live stream at our conference.

49:01

And I had to tell him to shut it down. Then he goes and runs his mouth. Yes, like, like, this is what he does, right?

49:08

He just wants to point out who it is that, listen, we know that Jesus is addressing the Jews, right?

49:14

Absolutely. But he's, but, but, but, but in the same way, we, he's addressing us as well.

49:21

Of course he is. Yeah. But, but they will only. So this is what hyper -dispensationalists do.

49:28

So a hyper -dispensationalist would be a, what's called a mid -acts only. So they only listen to the words of Paul.

49:37

All right. Now I'm not saying that Jason is a mid -acts, but he's doing, he's falling in the same things that mid -acts theologians do.

49:49

You know, well, Jesus said that, that, that this Pharisee was a child of the devil.

49:55

So therefore not everybody are children, are born children of the devil. Like it's, it's like, it's that kind of attitude.

50:02

And I'm not saying like just on that one point, cause he might not agree with that. However, that's what's being done here.

50:10

I just, my mind is, is going to so many places right now. So he just, he just wrote,

50:18

I don't pat myself on the back or believe it theology. I trust in the, yeah.

50:23

Thank you. I trust in the finished work of Christ. Thank you. I do too. We love him because he first loved us.

50:30

Absolutely. He calls us to walk in obedience. Absolutely. But not to keep our salvation,

50:36

Jason. We cannot keep it. He's already declared you righteous. If you are in Christ, God has changed you.

50:43

You are a new man. And I would also say, Jason, if that's what you believe, then you don't believe

50:48

Anabaptist theology. That's right. You need to repent. Find you a

50:53

Southern Baptist church. If you want to be a

50:59

Baptist, you need to find you, and you don't want to be a Calvinist, then find a Southern Baptist church.

51:06

These Anabaptists are heretics. That statement of faith you sent me concerning salvation, it's heretical.

51:14

Right. And as a matter of fact, here's one of the statements that it says here, and I don't know if you found it yet on the video, but this guy right here with the fake beard, it says,

51:24

God is trying to redeem humanity after the fall, and he is not going to do it without human beings cooperating.

51:32

It's right here, I believe. You want me to hit play? Yes, please. Yeah, of Anabaptism. So this is humility on God's part.

51:40

God has chosen to limit himself to human cooperation. He made a cosmos.

51:48

He's so sovereign, he's chosen to humiliate himself. Humble himself.

51:54

So is it that Christ first, God first loved us, and therefore we love him, or is it we love

52:02

God, and then he responds? Well, he's offered a provision is what they believe. He's provided a provision, and it's just on you,

52:10

Braden. Look, I want to pause this video so many times as we play this, but we got to play this out just real fast and listen to this.

52:17

He made animals. He made them to do exactly what he tells them to do.

52:23

Dogs just do what dogs are created to do. The birds just do what birds are created to do. But humans had a choice, and God humbled himself to say,

52:34

I will work in them as they cooperate with me. So the provisions are for man are available, the atonement, all the work that Christ did coming down from heaven, giving himself as a sacrifice, as an atonement for sin.

52:51

That's what. Oh, it's loading. I don't know why it's doing that. But God could do.

52:58

We could not. But what God will not do is make human decisions for us.

53:05

He waits. He's like, he's such a gentleman. He stands back and waits. He woos us by his spirit until we are ready to cooperate with him.

53:17

And then wonderful things happen. It does ultimately come back to a choice then on our part to accept this.

53:24

So back to you were saying, getting away from this language of, oh, I've been saved.

53:30

Now everything's all great. I have my ticket to heaven. That's not necessarily the case, but there is very much a point in everyone's life where they do have to choose this basically.

53:41

When it comes to the salvation trinity. This is heresy.

53:47

It is heresy. God is such a gentleman that he made

53:53

Nebuchadnezzar go and eat like a cow in the beast of the field. God is such a gentleman that when

54:00

Joseph was sold into slavery, God actually meant that for good. God is such a gentleman that he prepared before the foundations of the world,

54:09

Pontius Pilate, Herod, and all the peoples who's out, crucify, crucify our Lord and savior.

54:14

God is such a gentleman, brothers and sisters. No, the only time God humbled himself is in Philippians two, when he, who, who, who in the form of God did not regard equality with God, a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of bond servant, being made under the law, being put to death, even death upon a cross.

54:36

That's the time when God humbled himself. And guess what? He saved a people when he did that.

54:43

Amen. That's right. Without being a gentleman to him. Second Thessalonians 1, 8, executing vengeance on those who do not know

54:51

God and who do not obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction.

54:59

Guys, the gospel is a command. He's not just laying it out there, hoping that you will come to make a decision.

55:05

It is a command to come. He's not being a gentleman. He's commanding you to come.

55:11

And when we go out there and preach the gospel, the command, every man everywhere to repent of their sins, turn away from the sins that God hates, turn towards Christ and follow them.

55:21

The only way that happens is through the power of the Holy Spirit, through the preaching of the gospel, quickening that person, making him able to come.

55:30

You're dead in your sins, Jason, before that. You don't participate in any of it. In any of it, all you contribute is your sin.

55:38

That's it. Also, you know, like Jason believes, and he told me this, right?

55:44

Like he doesn't believe in eternal security. At least he's consistent with his theology.

55:50

I know, but check this out. So John 3, 16, and there's a whole bunch of verses, right?

55:58

That concerns everlasting life. Let's just use, you know, if whoever believes in Christ has, that's present tense, everlasting life, but yet according to that statement of faith, right?

56:13

If you're not walking it out, right? In obedience, you lose everlasting life.

56:21

You cannot lose something that is everlasting. If it's everlasting, that means it's going to be at that moment and always forever in eternity.

56:32

And so what he has to do is he has to go back and not say the words everlasting life.

56:40

Hold on. What is he saying? Just to say, I let Jeff know I would not word things as this guy does.

56:49

Yeah, he absolutely did. However, Jason, you sent me that statement of faith and this guy is reiterating what that statement of faith said, right?

57:02

I don't know if you saw it at first, but I didn't pull back up that, that, that statement of faith. Can you do that real quick? Yeah. Oh yeah, dude,

57:12

I got you. Yeah. Just give me a second. Uno momenti. And so this is what

57:17

I'm talking about concerning everlasting life. I'm getting this from that, that statement you sent me,

57:23

Jason, concerning salvation. And so if you believe that someone can have everlasting life by believing in Jesus, that means they cannot lose it.

57:36

That's right. It's not a pair of car keys. That's right. Yeah. All right.

57:42

So yeah. So now I won't be able to see you guys for just a moment. Okay. This is it.

57:48

Just give me a second. I got to find it here. Okay. So this is the document. This comes off the website.

57:53

And there's still network of churches, a global family of Anabaptists.

57:59

This is a salvation. Where is that? There it is. I want to agree with Jeremy real quick.

58:07

If it's not eternal, it's not salvation. Let me put that up here real quick.

58:12

That deserves screen time. Amen. Just leave it up there. Yeah, that's good stuff.

58:22

So salvation says those who receive God's gift of salvation by faith become children of God, justified in the relationship to God, sanctified in their walk and work, and secure in an ongoing faith expressed and fostered by obedience to Christ.

58:46

Yes. Jason, notice right here where it says those who receive

58:51

God's gift of salvation. Salvation is everlasting. That's what the scriptures teach.

58:57

We receive it by faith. Become children of God. Now, I would just argue that this is the human view of it.

59:07

That there is a scriptural view of it from eternity. And that's what you and I debated on.

59:13

All right. And then it says children of God, they are justified in their relationship to God.

59:21

Not right here. Sanctified in their walk and work and secured in an ongoing faith expressed and fostered by obedience to Christ.

59:36

Right. Can I... Okay, real quick on that justified thing. We have to nail this down.

59:42

Jason, listen, if you're justified, God declares you righteous. 2 Corinthians 5 says, therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he's a new creation.

59:53

The old things have passed away. Behold, new things have come. You know, so when this happens, your position has changed.

01:00:02

When God declares a person righteous, you can't do anything. In other words, if you are truly saved, you didn't participate in it.

01:00:11

God did it. You can't lose it. So it's not dependent upon you to live out a life and of obedience to be able to hold it.

01:00:20

Yes, we're required to live a holy life, pleasing unto Christ. But God will produce that in you.

01:00:25

If you were a Christian, you will be moved to follow Christ.

01:00:31

You will have different affections. Everything has been made new. And that's Christ working in us.

01:00:37

That's the Holy Spirit indwelling us. That's part of being the new creation in God. Look, anytime, let me just be so clear.

01:00:45

Anytime I see James chapter 2, verse 14 through 26, I get really worried about what people are trying to tie it to.

01:00:52

And look at what section this is in. Salvation, James 2, 14 through 26.

01:00:59

Yeah, this is the LDS go -to verse to teach that they are saved by faith and works.

01:01:12

Isn't that just a little scary that the Anabaptists are wording things almost identically to the

01:01:19

LDS doctrine of what the gospel is, what salvation is according to their own website.

01:01:24

Anabaptists, it's almost word. Listen, it's almost word for word, very, very similar in several ways.

01:01:30

And they utilize James 2, 14 through 26, which that text is not talking about justification between God and man.

01:01:38

It quotes from Romans 4 or quotes from Genesis 17 and 15 or Genesis 15, excuse me.

01:01:46

It quotes from Genesis 15, which so does Romans. And Romans 4 says that we are not justified by the works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ.

01:01:58

Listen, when we look at James 2, it's giving us an example of what an ongoing justification will look like to other people to justify ourselves before other men.

01:02:11

When Abraham circumcised himself, it showed that he was trusting in God through the whole thing.

01:02:16

It's not what saved him. It demonstrated that he was saved to others. Same thing with the sacrificing his son, so on and so forth.

01:02:25

That is what that chapter is talking about. And it scares me when anybody says salvation. And then underneath that, it gives us a reference to James chapter 2.

01:02:33

So in Romans chapter 5, it says, therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through the

01:02:39

Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have obtained our introduction. Another translation says our access into this grace in which we stand.

01:02:48

And we boast in the hope of his glory. So this is talking about the means of salvation in Romans chapter 5.

01:02:55

But in James chapter 2, it's talking about the product of salvation. That one's the means of the very means of salvation through faith.

01:03:03

We are justified through faith. But in James chapter 2, it's talking about once you've been justified, here's the proof, it will produce good works.

01:03:11

So it's not on us to do that. If you are in Christ, you will be

01:03:17

His. You were created in Christ Jesus for good works, right? And that you should walk in them. You will produce good works.

01:03:23

Yeah, if you're a Christian, you will produce good works. Plain and simple, right? If you're an apple tree, you will produce apples.

01:03:30

So Romans 4. You will accomplish the purpose of what it is. Romans 4. This is a very important text regarding justification.

01:03:38

Verse 1 -9. What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, according to the flesh, has found?

01:03:43

For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

01:03:50

For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.

01:03:56

Now to the one who works, his wage is not counted according to grace, but what is due.

01:04:04

But to the one who does not work, but believes upon him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

01:04:16

Just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works.

01:04:24

Justification is not the ongoing act of sanctification. If it was, this completely contradicts

01:04:33

Romans 4. And if there's anyone that would have lost their righteousness being credited to them, it would have been

01:04:42

Abraham. That's right. The man of faith, who immediately afterwards treats his wife as a prostitute.

01:04:53

So the other guy on the video, Fakebeard, says...

01:04:58

It's Gaybeard. Don't get it right, okay? He says salvation of being justified basically is not a once and done deal, but it's a redemptive process.

01:05:12

That our redemption is a process. That it's not necessarily once and done, but that's what we're arguing.

01:05:20

Yes, it is done. It was done before the foundation of the world. It's done.

01:05:25

Jesus said it was finished. And so, yes, if you've been declared righteous by a holy

01:05:31

God, it's done. It's a done deal. Now in real time, what does that say?

01:05:37

Yeah, in real time, it's not done because we are still being sanctified. We are still being made like Christ.

01:05:44

And one day we'll be redeemed from the very presence of sin. But it's a done deal.

01:05:50

If you are in Christ, it's done. It's finished. The sacrifice has been made. That Sola Scriptura guy, he's my kind of troublemaker.

01:06:01

I got beer. The only one. Mine's even a little bit greater than his.

01:06:08

Hey, let me play this part real fast on the video. I'm pulling it up, pulling it up.

01:06:14

This is important. Give me grace. So I went back 10 seconds. We were at 9 .20. We're now at 9 .10. Just listen to kind of what plays out here.

01:06:22

Necessarily the case, but there is very much a point in everyone's life where they do have to choose this basically.

01:06:29

When it comes to the salvation trinity, we have three words, justification, sanctification, and glorification.

01:06:37

So Martin Luther got this justification right by understanding that men are saved by faith.

01:06:46

We would differ with him when he says by faith alone. It's by grace for sure.

01:06:54

And it's by faith. And that's where we say, have the quote, I was saved.

01:07:00

That's the justification part. So that would roughly correlate to this idea of conversion experience or getting saved at some point, like the process.

01:07:10

Exactly. Exactly. But the sanctification part is the continual work, cooperation with Christ, with the

01:07:20

Holy Spirit after that point. It's a lifetime of being sanctified or being set apart for God.

01:07:29

Nobody gets completely sanctified in this life. It's like there's always, he's still working on me.

01:07:36

I think he's working in you, isn't he James? Well, he's still working in me too. I'm 69 and he's still working with me.

01:07:43

And that's a wonderful thing. I get a chance to recognize error and to repent.

01:07:50

Oh, how I wish you would. So you know what discernment is? Discernment isn't the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong.

01:07:58

It's the ability to tell the difference between right and almost right. Because there's a lot, there's half truce in there and what he says and he mixes it in there.

01:08:08

So yes, can we grieve the Holy Spirit as Christians? Yes, we can. Is it a process of sanctification making us like Christ?

01:08:15

Like Christ? Yes, it is. But he's being dependent on himself. He's not trusting in the finished work of Christ alone, which is what you said you were trusting in,

01:08:24

Jason. You know, are you dependent upon your own works to keep you saved?

01:08:30

Is your works needed for your salvation in the end? If you weren't doing godly works right now, would you be saved through Christ?

01:08:40

I don't, okay. So, okay. So that's, I mean, thank you for not.

01:08:46

Good. Yeah. Like Jason, I would reject your statement. Yeah, yeah.

01:08:52

I mean, Jason is very inconsistent with the theology that he claims to hold to. And I'm, and I'm grateful for that inconsistency.

01:08:59

Amen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because this is some scary stuff. I mean, this is what this is.

01:09:06

It's Judaizing. Yes, it is. It's Judaizing. They are the Baptist Judaizers. Yeah.

01:09:12

Yes, they are. That's a good way of saying it. The Baptist Judaizers. Did you hear what he said?

01:09:19

By faith, but not faith alone. Is it, did he say faith alone or grace alone?

01:09:25

He, no, he said faith. He said, he said, we would, we would agree with him that we are justified by faith, but not faith alone.

01:09:32

So in other words, he's trusting in, in faith in Christ, but your faith in Christ is not good enough.

01:09:37

That finished work of Christ dying on the cross is not good enough to save you. You have to go back.

01:09:42

Yeah. The faith is what that initial salvation. But then he's talking about the

01:09:48

Trinitarian salvation, right? Yeah. Oh my Lord. That's what

01:09:54

I feel like doing. So, so the sanctifying, the being saved would be your, your walk and work in the faith.

01:10:09

Which is dependent on you, according to him. Yeah. Yeah. Which we would say, no, no, no.

01:10:17

No, no, no, no, no. Again, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Yeah. But know this, it's

01:10:23

God who is doing the work. Well, how do we know that? The theology comes from Ezekiel chapter 36, verse 27.

01:10:32

It's the Holy Spirit in us that causes us to keep God's statutes, to keep his rules, to keep his commandments.

01:10:44

Like what are we doing here? Right? Right. It is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work his good pleasure.

01:10:55

Philippians 2. I don't know, man.

01:11:03

I definitely, I definitely don't want to throw Jason under the bus. And Jason, you know my heart, brother.

01:11:11

Like I've been reaching out to him, sending him things. Hey, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? I just trying,

01:11:16

I want, I want to rightly represent Jason. Right.

01:11:21

And then I sent him those videos and he said, oh, I agree just a little bit here, but I wouldn't, there's some parts where I wouldn't say it quite like that.

01:11:30

But he's the one that sent me that. Well, this is just a little bit wrong though. This isn't just a little bit wrong.

01:11:37

This is off. This is, this is not good. This is bad. I think Jason should,

01:11:43

Jason, I think you should leave that church, brother. And I say this to you, if you are a true brother in Christ, brother, you need to leave the

01:11:50

Anabaptist and you need to find you a Southern Baptist who's, who are not

01:11:56

Calvinistic. Like, like you're not being a Calvinist to me. Like, that's not a big deal, right?

01:12:04

You don't have to be a Calvinist to be a Christian in my book. Now there's some radicals that would believe that.

01:12:11

Now we're going to still make fun of you for not being a Calvinist, right? But we're not going to throw you out of the kingdom, man.

01:12:18

I'm going to make fun of Jeff because he is a Calvinist. Yeah. I mean, you know, but man, this right here, this is

01:12:24

Judaizer. It's another gospel altogether. Yeah. You're trusting in your own righteousness, your own works.

01:12:30

You're going back. You're going back to, to the law. You're going back to try to be able to, what was the quote that you said the other day,

01:12:39

Brayden, that God gave the law to be able to, as a rope to climb yourself up by that rope.

01:12:46

Yeah. You end up hanging yourself. It acts, is it

01:12:51

X 15, six in regard to Judaizers? It says, are, are we,

01:12:58

Oh, what is it saying? I'm going to open it up. Yeah. About the yoke of slavery.

01:13:04

Are we wanting to put a yoke of slavery on upon their next? I thought it was 15, six is not.

01:13:11

That's not 15, six. Are you sure? Yeah. 15, six acts.

01:13:16

15, six is the apostles and elders were gathered together to consider this matter.

01:13:27

Okay. Versus correct. Galatians five. I sorry.

01:13:33

No, no. It's it's acts 15, 10. I was four verses off my fault. My fault. Yeah. Now, therefore.

01:13:39

Hey, look, I repent now. Therefore, why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples, a yoke, which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear.

01:13:53

But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way as they also are.

01:14:02

Right. Galatians five, one, very similar. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.

01:14:10

Stand firm and do not let yourselves be burdened again by the yoke of slavery. Talking about the very same thing.

01:14:16

The yoke of sin that it's hard to bear. I see how you see that video.

01:14:29

Yeah. So let's pull it up. Okay. Jason, it's not about the video.

01:14:35

I don't give a crap about the video. I don't give a crap about what a beard says. Okay.

01:14:40

I'm talking about the statement that you sent me. That's what I'm focused on.

01:14:47

Like, don't again, don't give a crap about what the gay beard says. It's it's the statement.

01:14:54

I care about what gay beard said. Well, I guess I guess I have a question then.

01:15:00

I mean, are you say that you're trusting in the person? Can you lose your salvation then?

01:15:06

If God has declared you righteous upon the profession of your faith, being changed, being a new man, a new creature in Christ.

01:15:15

If God has declared you righteous, Jason, can you do anything to lose that?

01:15:20

If you are positionally set apart unto God, your position, you're a new man, you're a new creature.

01:15:27

Can you do anything? Can you do anything to change that? That would be my question to you.

01:15:33

I just don't see how if God declares you righteous, he has spoke it.

01:15:41

How can you do anything to lose it? I got the confession back up here. If you want to put it up, Jeff. Yeah.

01:15:46

And he had the bigger one, the one that I had the screenshot that I did. Yeah. It was the last one that you sent up there, man.

01:15:52

I could not see it. Okay. Give me a second. I had to go to my phone. Look, doggy do

01:15:59

I got you. So he says, I want to post that. I want to believe in.

01:16:06

I can't lose their salvation working through the same passage. Like I said, working through some passages. I want to believe one can't lose their salvation working through some passages.

01:16:20

Like I said. Well, that's good that you want to believe that. Yeah, absolutely. You should just do it.

01:16:27

Right. Because if God is the one everlasting life, it's everlasting life. Like if it's, if you can lose it, then it should not say everlasting.

01:16:37

Who said that earlier? You said that earlier? Said what?

01:16:43

If it's everlasting or wait, somebody put somebody. Let me find it again.

01:16:49

If it's eternal. Hold on. What do you say? If it's eternal, it's not eternal.

01:16:55

It's not salvage. Well, I believe it was, uh, I'm digging through it.

01:17:02

Y 'all comment too much, man. Where is it there? Yeah.

01:17:08

Got it. Got it. We got it right here. It's not salvation, right?

01:17:16

Yes. And amen. Yes. And amen. And the word, the word salvation means to be rescued.

01:17:23

It's to be saved. Yeah. Rescue. You don't cooperate and you're being saved.

01:17:34

Yeah. And again, you're a new creature in Christ. God made you like that.

01:17:40

You didn't make yourself like that. That's what it is to trust fully on Him.

01:17:47

To place your faith totally on Him. Again, the main point is right after in Holy Spirit.

01:17:53

It says those who receive those who receive God's gift of salvation by faith.

01:18:02

Become children of God. Now right here, justified in their relationship to God.

01:18:10

Just right here, like it indicates that this is something you're doing as well. Like this is not monergistic at all.

01:18:17

You said you hold a monergistic. This is not monergistic. That statement is not monergistic. Right here, sanctified in their walk and work.

01:18:28

There's nothing in that statement about God. And secured in their ongoing faith expressed and fostered by obedience to Christ.

01:18:42

Brother, that's what I have a problem with. That right there is heretical.

01:18:50

It's Judaizer at best. The Baptist Judaizer. Yeah, because we already know that faith is a gift, right?

01:19:01

I mean, you would agree with that. Ephesians chapter two, it says it says faith is a gift. Your faith is a gift.

01:19:08

And again, that was great you pointing that out. That is not monergistic. This statement is not monergistic at all.

01:19:14

This is you actually having to do something to participate. Hey, this is what you call someone who's lost an argument right here.

01:19:21

This is what they say. This is Keystone, Layton Flowers type of argument. But just curious, if I land, you can lose your salvation.

01:19:32

Wasn't that decreed by God for me to believe that? Just curious to see how you see that, brother.

01:19:44

This is how you die when someone has a failed argument. Yeah, I mean, Jason, you have the scriptures right here.

01:19:51

It's right here in front of you. It's right there. If God did the saving, if God's saving you was monergistic, if it was all on him, we're talking about the creator of the heavens and the earth.

01:20:04

We're talking about the one who spoke things into existence. If he declares something, if he declares you righteous, what can you do to thwart his will?

01:20:16

Jason, here's something I would encourage you to do. Study covenant theology.

01:20:24

Study Baptist 1689 Federalist theology.

01:20:30

Have a foundation upon which you can interpret scripture. Because right now, you do not have a solid foundation.

01:20:39

You can take me to any verse in scripture. I use what's called Baptist covenant idealism to interpret scripture.

01:20:46

I'm open. I'm upfront about it, right? You don't have that. There is no place in scripture that teaches you can lose your salvation.

01:20:56

And as I showed you earlier in, whenever we had that debate, when I would quote scripture,

01:21:03

I would give the context. And as we were having that debate, I was hoping you was going to ask me the context on some of those verses.

01:21:09

You didn't ask me because I was fully ready to give you 20 verses in front of it and 20 verses after it.

01:21:21

It's not a statement of man, brother. It's how you interpret scripture. You have no foundation.

01:21:27

You have no foundation upon which to interpret scripture, my dear friend. And this is why you're landing in Judaizers.

01:21:35

You're landing in the land of Judaizers. You're going to be, you're being taught a false gospel. You're going to teach a false gospel.

01:21:42

You need to repent and put your faith in Jesus Christ. Yo, pull this up.

01:21:54

Shabloink. Look at that.

01:22:07

Look at that. Look at that, guys. Yeah. Look at those Bible verses right there around the letters.

01:22:14

That's man. Who did? Did you do that, Jason Breda? Oh my gosh.

01:22:22

Don't you? Oh, Braden Patterson. That is fantastic.

01:22:31

I'm glad I fixed all the spelling errors. If you would like this, go and grab it off of my

01:22:37

Facebook because it is good. You should have seen it before he let, let

01:22:47

Jeff and I edit it. It was all yellow and couldn't read it real good.

01:22:54

It was almost like a, like a chin beard. It was awesome. A chin beard. Yeah, that was legendary.

01:23:01

You mean that little soul patch you got? No, no. I'm talking about the guy on the video.

01:23:06

That was just mean, Jeff. Wow. That's gay beard. What are you talking about? You don't do gay beard. Look, I thought chin beard was gay beard, but apparently not.

01:23:15

I guess we can call him happy beard. All right.

01:23:23

Well, I think we demolished that view. Yeah. And, and, and really, honestly,

01:23:32

I am, I am thankful that, that even Jason would look at that video and say,

01:23:37

Hey, I'm, I'm not really excited with this. He's saying that, but that statement of faith he sent concurs with it.

01:23:45

Well, yeah. I mean, again, you got to look at that closely. You really do.

01:23:51

And, but I think that we've done a good job explaining it as, as to what's wrong with it. You know, that you say that you hold to a monogeristic view of regeneration and salvation, but that doesn't read like it's, it's monogeristic at all.

01:24:06

Jason, if you're still on, let me ask you a question. It has nothing to do with what we've been talking about, but, but if you, if you listened early on, we were talking about how there's that group of guys that you are a part of Layton, you have idle killer.

01:24:21

I don't know his real name. Forgive me. If you're watching this, I, I apologize. I'm really bad with names.

01:24:26

I'm really good with faces and bad with names. And then you have, you know, there's several other guys, right.

01:24:31

And Kenneth Knaff included, right. Kevin, I'm sorry. I get,

01:24:37

I get the two confused. Uh, y 'all all have a different position on most every subject that we can bring up.

01:24:48

Right. The only thing that y 'all have in common, Warren McGee. Yeah. McGrew, excuse me.

01:24:54

The only thing that y 'all have in common is that y 'all are anti Calvinist. Like, how does that work?

01:25:02

The one guy that, that, uh, Warren was interviewing, he is a, a, uh, a

01:25:09

Greek Greek Orthodox. Like just mysticism dove in, like, here's 12 foot of mysticism.

01:25:18

Let's drown herself. It's sad. I shouldn't be laughing.

01:25:24

That was just funny. How you said that? I got to remember that. I mean, but it is right. That needs to be right there.

01:25:30

I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll see if I can work it in. How can you, you know, like if two or three don't agree, how can they walk together?

01:25:43

Right. How can you join forces with these guys to speak bad about us?

01:25:51

Yeah. Y 'all don't even agree on basically anything. I, it, it, it, it blows my mind.

01:25:58

Y 'all, y 'all team together to come against Calvinist. Like I tell people quite often, you want to have a big platform.

01:26:06

Just become a, become someone, start a YouTube channel and claim that you're an anti -Calvinist or once was a

01:26:13

Calvinist, but just don't claim that you were once reformed because it, because just a

01:26:18

Calvinistic Baptist and someone who has reformed two different things. Yeah.

01:26:26

That's just what I want to ask. I, I, if you're on, please respond. Also, what's your favorite color?

01:26:34

Mine is blue. It's for our next podcast. We're going to give you a pink mustache. Association.

01:26:43

Association requires discernment, but called to love others. Yeah. But you know, unity is, is, is bound in.

01:26:50

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? You're joining with people that don't love

01:26:55

Calvinists. That's garbage. Jason, if you've ever listened to one, I know JP's videos, and if you've ever seen them, there's no love given for Calvinists, and you have tied yourself to them.

01:27:06

That's a lie, Jason. Yeah. And I would also say, Jason, would you team up and do a podcast with us?

01:27:13

It's something we agree about. Like what? I mean,

01:27:18

I was trying to see if you would. I'm not ecumenical.

01:27:28

Okay, well, I appreciate that, Jason. And I do hope you know that I do love you, brother. I really do.

01:27:34

I think you're a sweet man. I just think that the theology you hold to, it's inconsistent to the theology that you say you're a part of.

01:27:48

At best, right? Because this Anabaptist is heresy.

01:27:55

It's good easy in. We need to find them a good church. Yeah. Tell us what state you're in. We'll get you hooked up, brother.

01:28:01

Yeah, we'll take care of you. In all seriousness. Again, so I, you know, like I do a lot of different work with people who are non -Calvinists.

01:28:10

We get along fantastic. I don't pull out my Calvinist hammer and hit them over the head with it, but you know.

01:28:18

That's my job. Yeah. I'll do that. I used to.

01:28:25

All right, we got anything else? Or are we going to close this out? It's Sunday.

01:28:30

I preached my heart out today. I'm tired. I respect what

01:28:35

Michelle just said on there. What, who? Okay. I'm just preaching through Galatians right now.

01:28:41

That's the text that I even referenced today in my sermon, so. Okay, Galatians 1 .8.

01:28:50

Cursed is cut off. Paul's hint, don't fellowship. Kick them out of the church, essentially.

01:28:58

Don't allow them to be a part of it. And also, Jason, I hope that you don't get angry, which

01:29:04

I know you seem not to be angry, but this is how our podcast is. Like, we're not, like a lot of what we say, we're not really serious.

01:29:12

We joke around, we make fun of each other, and we fight. And we talk bad about people, but we don't, you know, we don't mean it, really.

01:29:21

We do, but we don't, right? A lot of times, we do. Sometimes, we don't. We do, but we don't lose our sleep on it.

01:29:28

I mean, it's 100 % legit. I mean, I do believe that it's pretty happy, right?

01:29:36

It was. He looked happy. Yeah, he looked happy. Anyways.

01:29:43

Yeah. All right, well, let's go. Last words, Tom. Yeah, I mean,

01:29:49

I mean, I feel bad for him, man. I'm seriously gonna pray and hope that God opens your eyes to what we're saying.

01:30:00

And I really, truly believe that you even just tuning in and listening to us go through the scriptures talking about justification and how

01:30:09

God saves us is a means of, as God determined you to listen to it, because he wants you to know the truth.

01:30:20

And if you're a brother, if you truly are a brother, I really would pray that, man,

01:30:27

I would pray that you would open your eyes in here and just submit to what the scripture says. And I know you think you are now, but again, if God has declared you righteous, bro, you can't lose it.

01:30:38

And so, I would seriously, just like every single one of us, everybody who's listening here, when we lay on our bed at night, ask

01:30:48

God to reveal himself to us in a special way through his scriptures and that ask the Holy Spirit to speak into our heart and get all of us right with him.

01:30:59

If we're wrong in something, let us repent. Let us not be rejected because we don't wanna be wrong.

01:31:07

And I mean that with all my heart. You're getting a little too serious on this podcast.

01:31:13

Man, I'm serious. It really, it does, it bothers me because I think it's a dangerous thing.

01:31:20

And yes, there's unity, but unity is always bound in truth. And so,

01:31:26

I would pray that you would seriously consider laying on your bed tonight and wrestle with God.

01:31:35

Something that was stated by Jason earlier is I don't want statements of men. I want to draw from scripture alone.

01:31:42

We hold to sola scriptura, but we don't hold to scripture only.

01:31:49

We look at what historical Christianity has taught. We look at hermeneutics. We tried our best to understand the scripture correctly and we utilize other

01:31:56

Christians in the process. You said, I don't want statements of men, yet you hold to a confession that is heretical.

01:32:06

How much is a statement of man? That is a statement of man. And that is not, first of all, it denies scripture alone.

01:32:16

It denies scripture teaching. It's not good.

01:32:23

It's not good. What I would just finish with is saying that we are saved by Christ. We are secure in his hand.

01:32:30

It's 100 % a work of God, not even just in our initial justification, but in us maintaining our salvation.

01:32:37

It is through him and him alone. It is not through anything I can do. It is Christ working in us.

01:32:42

It is, I've been crucified with him. It is 100 % Christ alone, through faith alone and grace alone.

01:32:50

And I want to put exclamation marks after every one of those alones. Yeah. Yeah.

01:33:00

Well, I really enjoy every time I get to hang out with you brothers.

01:33:06

I know there's a lot that we do that we don't video. That after we get done doing was like, man, we should have videoed that, right?

01:33:13

That was really good. And so I really enjoy these moments that we have.

01:33:19

And just interacting with those of you who are watching, like some of you, I don't really know if I know, like you're on here as a podcast, like the

01:33:27

Divine Nature podcast. Like I'm not, I can either go check you out. I'm not sure if I know you.

01:33:32

Like, are we friends on Facebook? Like, I'm not sure if I know you, but I do appreciate your commenting tonight.

01:33:38

And like, you know, every one of y 'all like, like I love hanging out, not only with my homies here at Open Earth Theology, but also with you guys.

01:33:48

And I want to also thank Jason for watching and having the courage to comment.

01:33:57

Thank you, brother. I respect you for that. And I hope

01:34:03

Jason knows that, you know, like he can message me, he gets my number, he can call me, like we can have a conversation.

01:34:10

But, you know, some of y 'all might be watching for the first time and you're like, these guys are just lunatics. And you know what?

01:34:16

And it - Subscribe, subscribe. We did it, okay. Subscribe and please share.

01:34:22

Yeah, subscribe, subscribe. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna be doing these lunatic podcasts every week.

01:34:28

And so it's awesome. Subscribe. And I can tell you this, I can tell you this, probably by this time next year,

01:34:34

I'm not gonna tell you why, but this time next year, Braden will probably have a beard. I'm gonna tell him to grow a beard.

01:34:40

I'm gonna have a beard by this time. But y 'all are interfering with my closing words. It's not gonna be a gay beard. Did I interrupt?

01:34:46

It's not gonna be a gay beard. Well, we don't know if it's gonna be a gay beard. We haven't seen you in one. Shut up.

01:34:51

Don't put that evil on you. Going on a gay fit. Don't put that evil on me. Don't put that evil on me.

01:35:00

Just drowning in mysticism over there. Yeah, I'm drowning 12 foot out of it, man. I'm gonna be hanging out with some, you know.

01:35:07

I got a podcast going on with 12 people that disagree with me. You're swimming with the mysticism, aren't you?

01:35:13

Chia seeds, chia seeds, Melissa says. Chia seeds. Hey, if that don't work, we're gonna get a tattoo shop, get a tattoo of a beard on him.

01:35:21

Oh, dude. Yeah, you could. I got the tattoo gun, brother. We can hook you right on up. Yeah.

01:35:29

What about like some gorilla glue of like, you know, like locks for love and all that. Like I could just get some different people's hair and just get it.

01:35:36

Locks for love? What is that, a website? It's a cancer thing. What do you mean surfing? Oh. Oh my gosh.

01:35:42

Oh my gosh. What are you talking about, Tom? I'm just saying I could get a beard transplanted. You know what? I wanna take away everything

01:35:48

I said earlier about loving hanging out with you guys. Like, I just take that all back. Like, I do.

01:35:54

But hey, everybody, listen. If you're ever in Tallahoma, Tennessee, come hang out with your brother.