Concerning Children and Communion / Ezekiel Part 9

Prayer for Truth, Forgiveness, and Sanctification

All right, we're going to pray, and then we will jump into the things I have planned for today. Lord Jesus, again, as we open your word, we thank you that your word is truth. And as we abide in your word, I hear the comforting words of the gospel, also the terrifying words of God's law.

We thank you, Lord, that you quench the terrifying words of the law with the good news of the forgiveness of our sins. So we ask that as we study your word out, that we would continue to find you in every page, that we would rightly believe what is true, reject what is false, and that we may, by the power of the Holy Spirit daily, rise, and through his power and strength, mortify our sinful flesh, so that we may walk before you in good works.

We ask in Jesus' name, amen. Okay, before we get into the study, it was more than a few months back, it was almost like half a year ago now, that I brought up the topic that I would like to move in a slightly different direction when it comes to the children of our congregation, and that is that when they have reached an age where they are able to demonstrate that they know and understand what it is that they are receiving in the Lord's Supper, because the Lord's Supper does require self-examination, that's part of it, and that they're aware of their sin, that then I would like to examine them, and after meeting with them, if I find that they do understand these things and that they are ready, I would like to begin communing them rather than just blessing them.

Examining Children for Communion and the Role of Parents

You'll note that the Scripture does not give an age. It doesn't say, you know, that when you reach eighth grade and you've graduated from two years of catechism class, then and only then can you have the Lord's Supper.

I think that, as a practice, that has become a human tradition that a lot of people legalistically hold to, and I just don't think that's the best thing, and so there are kids here, I can legitimately say after talking with them, that I'd commune them, you know, if we had a different practice, and so it's not that this is going to call for a vote, because it's not, that's not kind of how this works, but I want to kind of share with you where we're going, and after I brought this up, there were some concerns that were brought up, and they were brought up in email exchanges, and the most notable of them are kind of two.

One was the concern that somehow the Sunday school teachers would be the ones making the decisions about who, which of the kids would be communed. That's not true. That's actually my job, but I rely heavily on the Sunday school teachers to let me know which of the kids that they believe, based upon they're working with them, are prepared to have that conversation with me, and so the idea is that they're not the ones making the decision then as to which kids would be able to commune.

It's the Sunday school teachers who are letting me know who they think I should sit down with and have a conversation with to examine them, and so, you know, so I rest assured the Sunday school teachers are not making that decision.

That's actually mine in, you know, and so if anyone comes to Cungs of Inger Lutheran Church and they're a guest, guess what? I'm examining them. I'm talking to them. So what do you believe? What do you, what do you believe you're receiving?

And oddly enough, we're living in a day where a lot of people just kind of, they believe what the scripture says because there's so little biblical teaching going on, you know, and I gotta be careful how I say this.

There's so little like in-depth teaching going on that the denominations of the past who railed against such a belief, they don't even rail against these things, you know, because they're not teaching anything, and so people are able to get, kind of read the scriptures on a cold read and go, well, Jesus said this is my body and this is my blood, and it's like, okay, you know, and so I find it very rare for somebody to push back on it and say, well, it's just a symbol, you know, and all that kind of stuff that, so, but, you know, I examine everybody who comes here.

Wine, Grape Juice, and Christian Liberty for Children

That's a nice thing about serving a small congregation is that you can do that. There was another concern that was also raised, and the concern had to do with children and alcohol, and so I would note that I do not parent these children.

You do, and that is a conversation that you need to have with your children. I would note this, that there is no law being broken for a child to receive wine in the Lord's Supper. Legitimately, all of the regulations regarding children consuming alcohol, there are caveats that say that they are permitted to have alcohol in a religious setting.

That is absolutely, there is no breaking of the law, and I would note that as Christians, as Lutherans, we recognize then that alcohol is a gift given by God, and the sin is not in the consumption of alcohol.

The sin is in the abuse of the gift, and so, you know, but this is something that you and your children need to have a conversation with, because we do offer here at Kongsvinger, we do offer grape juice.

If you're not aware of this, there are some folks who conscientiously are not keen on having alcoholic wine, and so on the outside of the little shot glasses, the outside rim, we have grape juice. So, I would note that, you know, that, but this is a conversation that you need to have with your kids, and parents are the ones who get to decide these things, right?

So, you know, but there's, we should have, there's, no one should be scandalized by the idea of a child having a sip of wine, you know, which is the body, which is the blood of Christ, and that's, you know, that's not going to lead to a life of debauchery and alcoholism or anything like this.

I would just note that, as a practice, one of the things that Barb and I did is that raising our kids, we had no problem allowing our kids to taste wine or have, you know, have alcohol from time to time, so, you know, that said, you know, rather than taking the approach of, don't touch that, whatever you do, don't drink it, it's evil, right?

As soon as you do that, then they're going, hmm, I got to figure out how to get me some of that, right? And so, you know, and you'll note that also the laws in your house are basically, if a parent says you can have a glass of wine with dinner, you, a child can do that, even if they're under the age.

That's actually, that's permitted, so, but I would note making it a taboo subject and turning it into something, we don't touch that stuff. Oftentimes, like if you tell a kid, don't eat the cookies in the cookie jar, okay?

In the middle of the night, what are you going to find your child doing? Eating the cookies in the cookie jar, so we kind of just went with a different approach altogether. We didn't make a big deal of it.

You want to taste? Sure, here's the taste, and they go, how do you drink that stuff, right? You know, and so, you know, kind of cured them, so, you know, we didn't have that, we didn't have problems like that, so, but, so, as, you know, this is an opportunity then at this point to ask any further questions or to bring up any other discussion items as it relates to this.

I would like to, as we get into the end of this church year and into the new church year, to begin to integrate those children who are legitimately, I think, should be communed so that they can be, so, but any thoughts?

Communion, Confirmation, and Biblical Literacy

Marilyn? Yes, yeah, so the child who wants to do what everything, what everybody else is doing, that's not a reason to commune a child. The child needs to demonstrate that they understand that they're sinful, and that they understand that Christ's blood had died for them, and that the Lord's Supper itself is a gift by which we receive the body and blood of Christ given and shed for the forgiveness of our sins.

That it's not a symbol, it's something holy and sacred, and if they have enough maturity and understanding to be able to confess that, then I do not see a reason why they should be barred, you know. We're not Roman Catholics.

We don't have to celebrate this first, you know, Eucharist kind of stuff and, you know, and things like that, you know. When the child can biblically say, we can say biblically they're ready, we shouldn't keep them from it.

So, but yeah, if a kid's like, well, my brother's having it, but I'm not having it, and I want to have it too. Well, I'm glad you want to have it. Let's talk about what it is, and things like that, so yeah.

Yeah, I don't want to turn this into, well, my brother's birthday is today, and I really want a birthday present too, kind of thing, you know. I know all about that. I had that when I was a kid, so. All right, any other questions or comments or things that you'd like to discuss on this matter?

Yes, yes. A confirmation is actually basically saying that they have studied and they have accepted the entirety of the faith, and so that's a big stepping stone. Oddly enough, in the agenda, there is a little rite that is done for people who are going to be welcomed to the Lord's Supper, and it's without confirmation, and so, you know, I think that, and I found that fascinating that that's in there, and I would note that other Missouri Synod and AALC congregations use that then.

So rather than just saying, the pastor says, well, great, we're going to commune you, instead you bring the kids up who are going to be communed, and you then walk through that rite with them. So there's a little bit of formality to it.

We're not sneaking them in. Everybody in the congregation knows that they've done this, and there's a little responsibility that goes with that too, so. But confirmation is still an important part because that's formal instruction in the entirety of all the doctrines of the Christian faith, and then upon completion of that, their intent then is to continue in that faith, so.

Yeah, that's really the point. Yes. Yes, absolutely, you know, and that's the thing, is that when it comes time for having the conversation with a child, I'm not having that conversation by myself with that child, no way, okay?

Instead, I need at least one or both parents to sit in because if it turns out that the child is not ready, the parent will readily see that, okay? They'll sit there and go, a little bit of work to do, right?

And if the child is ready, the parent will sit there and go, yep, my child really doesn't understand what that is, right? So I would note, one of the things that I really love about our Sunday school program and our Sunday school instructors, if you haven't figured this out, they are dead set on having your kids memorize different bits of the catechism, and they get rewarded gratuitously.

The best way I can think of is the ability to speak things from memory, and so their stated goal, and they said this a couple years ago during a homecoming on the prairie, is that they want that when a child begins confirmation, that they will have already memorized the catechism.

That's a pretty audacious goal, I like that. And I would say this, that definitely makes my life a lot easier, and you parents, that makes your lives a lot easier too, because then you'll note the way I spend the two years in catechism is not in just looking and breaking out the sentences of the catechism, instead looking at all the biblical texts that instead back up and teach the doctrines that they're confessing in the catechism, so that they know their Bibles, and they're able to say, yeah, I know the catechism says this, but the reason it says that is because this verse and this passage and this story and this thing in the Bible, they all say these things, and so they're able to back it up.

Biblical illiteracy is a terrible thing, and I don't want to be passing that along. I want all of our students to be biblically literate, and that's why we spend the two years really fleshing all of the doctrines out in the catechism using the scriptures.

Okay? Yes, sir? They can't be confirmed. That's the best way I can put it. If they're not ready at time of confirmation they've been through the two years, I can't confirm them. So I could say, we can revisit this in maybe a month.

Go back and refresh your memory about these things, but you've been instructed in these things. If they're not grasping and hanging onto and understanding what it is that they've been taught after two years of in-depth instruction, then that leads to a more awkward conversation, but they're still not ready at that point.

I don't confirm a child just because they finished the thing. So if they've demonstrated that they don't really get it, then we have other conversations. So that doesn't help anybody. Religious pretenses are bad things, right?

So, yeah? So the question is, does the man-made practice of not allowing children to have the Lord's Supplement until after confirmation, does it teach, does it kind of reinforce the idea of them graduating from Christianity?

And I would say yes. It's very fascinating that that is a legitimate problem. It's a real mentality, it's a real issue within congregations that utilize that practice. Again, I tell the story of Isla Lind.

If you guys don't remember Isla, holy smokes, that woman. I would have to go to confession absolution after having a conversation with her. She was naughty, but she was naughty in all the right ways. It was awesome.

But there was one time we were having an event here at Kongsvinger, and kid you not, it was early in the summer, and we had a barn swallow get into the building. And it was swooping, just flying from there to the window, all the way over to the altar, then back again.

And we were trying to figure out how to get rid of this barn swallow that had gotten into the building. And Isla Lind shouts out, just confirm it, it'll leave and never come back. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. But the thing is, is that what she said in jest is kind of a cultural problem.

And so I would note that I don't think we do our children a favor by pushing communion off like that. Instead, it teaches them that somehow, okay, I finished, I did the thing, and I'm done. Whereas, communing them early, and then walking through and saying, now here's all that what this says, is this still what you believe?

And them saying yes, it's them graduating into the worship life of the congregation as a full member, one who understands. And you're going to note that once a child is confirmed, they're no longer downstairs in the basement.

Which means they don't get all the torture implements that the smaller kids get. But, no, I'm kidding, that's how rumors get started. But when they're confirmed, they're up here, right? They are considered to be full adult members of the congregation, even if they haven't hit the age of 18.

And so that's the idea. Yes. Yes. So this practice, you see this practice in practice. So Marilyn noted that she has a grandson who has started confirmation but is already communing. And I think that's the way it should be.

That was my experience growing up. That was your experience growing up? Well, Stephen Elliott, we won't talk about your experiences. All right. Yeah. Okay. Now, John Paletto has his hand up. John, do you actually have a statement, a question, or anything along those lines?

And I don't know how to hear you. So hang on a second here. Let's, you know, I know you're unmuted, but I fear turning this volume up on my laptop.

Oh, okay. You can hear me. In the bylaws, communicant members are received in the following manner. Admission to communicant membership shall require that the applicant has been baptized into the Christian faith, and it has either been confirmed or has received instruction in the meaning of the sacrament.

Of the Lord's Supper. Does that help? Yes, it helps. But I would note something here. What the Constitution permits me to do and what our practice is, there's a little bit of a gap there. And I don't think it's fair to make a change without the congregation understanding the purpose of it and why.

So I would note, I'm thankful for the changes in our Constitution that make it possible for this change to occur, because we're not going to be acting contrary to our Constitution. Amen for that. However, just because you can do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

So, you know, I want everybody to understand that moving forward, that as we begin to have those conversations with these kids, and some of these kids are then welcomed to the Lord's table, this is going to increase the amount of elements needed, you know, every Sunday and all that kind of stuff.

And then you'll note that periodically, we're going to have kids that are coming up to me saying, I'm ready. And it's like, okay, let's go get your parents, let's have this conversation. And then we're going to actually recognize them before bringing them to the Lord's Supper.

But good practice in the congregation. So almost 10 years ago now, before I took the call to Kongsvinger, I had a conversation with one of my pastors who I had the deepest respect for. He's now gone to be with Christ.

But he says, Chris, when you get into the pastoral office, he says, you know, that you may need to make some changes. He says, but I recommend that you take this approach. He says, imagine that any congregation, regardless of its size, is a very, very large aircraft carrier.

And you can't just take the helm and make a hard turn with that thing. You have to make very, very calculated course corrections, and then you will need to allow miles to pass before you get on the right course.

And it's because he's reminded me, any congregation you serve, it isn't your congregation, it's Christ's. And Christ doesn't like his sheep to be spooked. And so you've got to make, even if they're good, right, and salutary changes, even if they're biblical changes, you just don't come in and grab the helm and say, well, this is the way we're going to do it.

You know, you have to have patience and let the Word of God instruct. So thank you, John, for that point. So, all right. All that being said, okay, I will have conversations with my one of my Sunday school teachers, and I would expect to start seeing kids being brought in to Communicant membership in the days ahead.

Ezekiel’s Vision of Jerusalem’s Abominations

So, all right. Let's talk about Ezekiel, shall we? I'm kind of excited about what's coming up. I was reading the Hebrew here for what's coming up, because it's really kind of cool. But alas, I have to actually get there first, which means I have to read a portion of Ezekiel that we didn't finish.

So, if you remember last week, as we've been walking away through the book of Ezekiel, God has literally grabbed poor Ezekiel by his hair, brought him to Jerusalem, and is showing him the abominations that are taking place in Jerusalem and in and around the temple.

And as a result of it, you know, you're getting a clear picture of the absolute rank idolatry that is taking place there. And it's not good. And so, when we last left off, we had one of the sons of Shaphan leading idolatrous worship in a hidden chamber in the dark with images made to look like animals and things like this.

And it's just an absolute mess, what's going on here. So, let me reread this portion. He brought me to the entrance of the court. I looked. Behold, there was a hole in the wall. And then he said to me, son of man, dig in the wall.

So, I dug in the wall. Behold, there was an entrance. And he said to me, go in and see the vile abominations they're committing here. So, I went in and saw. And there engraved on the wall around was every form of creeping things, loathsome beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel.

And before them stood 70 men of the elders of the house of Israel with Jaazaniah, the son of Shaphan, standing among them. And I noted last week, Jaazaniah is a fellow who, he does not, he doesn't act like his brothers, best way to put it.

To say he's the black sheep is really not a compliment, it's an insult. Because his brothers are good, faithful men who understand the word and believe rightly. And so, Jaazaniah has brought shame upon his father, because unlike his father and unlike his brothers, this guy is using his father's good name to give him standing among the elders of Israel.

And using that standing and using his father's good name, he is then leading idolatrous worship. So, each of us, each had a censer in his hand, and the smoke of the cloud of incense went up. And then he said to me, son of man, have you seen what the elders of the house of Israel are doing in the dark, each in his room of pictures?

For they say, Yahweh does not see us. Yahweh has forsaken the land. He said to me, you will see still greater abominations that they commit, as if that wasn't bad enough. Greater abominations are coming.

Tammuz, Mystery Religions, and Sun Worship in the Temple

So then he brought me to the entrance of the north gate of the house of Yahweh. And behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. And then he said to me, have you seen this, O son of man? You will see still greater abominations than these.

And here's where you have to do a little bit of research. They're weeping for Tammuz. What does that mean? Who's Tammuz? Okay. Yeah. Tammuz is the sister of Shamu. So what? Okay. You guys are into orca humor.

Okay. Maybe not. All right. So Tammuz, and you'll know, I have the Lutheran study Bible open because I knew there's a good little note here. One of the things I like about the Lutheran study Bible is its accuracy and detail while being brief.

Okay. So weeping for Tammuz, listen to this idea then. So this God, note lower case, is mentioned only here in the Bible, but it's probably the same God known as Adonis in Greek, in Greece and Rome, noted by Jerome and Cyril of Alexandria.

The church fathers actually kind of knew the reference. In mythology, Adonis died every spring when the rainy season stopped. So this weeping was intended magically to help make the rains resume the next fall, the women joined in the idolatry.

So the idea here is the wing. So in Israel, there were two rainy seasons, not one, there were two. And as a result of it, they had two growing seasons, which was fascinating. So they would talk about the former and the latter rains.

That's how they would discuss these things, right? And so the idea then is that it stopped raining in the spring. And so the rainy season has ended. And so they would go through religious ceremonial weeping, right?

And then the idea was that the tears that came on their faces would then magically bring the rain back in the fall. Does that sound like the stupidest thing ever? Yeah. Okay. I see what you did there.

Okay. So this, by the way, is how the Gnostic mystery religions operated. And I would note that they still do. Okay. Off the top of your head, can you think of a famous ancient structure that happens to be aligned with the summer and winter solstices?

Okay. Can you think of something? You're thinking Stonehenge? Right. The Spinal Tap version? No, it's not the Spinal Tap version of Stonehenge. Sorry. I know that reference. But Stonehenge, and you'll note any of the ancient religious sites where, have you ever heard of these things where like on the winter solstice, on the winter solstice, the sun will come through a shaft and then hit some kind of a back wall.

If you don't know what that's all about, the sun, just think of it as the male thing. Okay. And the hole in the ground, like the female thing. And so the idea here is that on the winter solstice, when there's no fruit or anything like this, the sun impregnates the earth with its sunbeam.

And then nine months later is the harvest. See, you're learning. Marlis, it sounds like you've never heard this before. It's crazy stuff. But this is how the mystery religions kind of work and operate.

At their core, they are fertility religions that have to do with the male and the female counterparts and the different bits like this. So Adonis dying and then people weeping so that he magically comes back in the fall and brings the rains back.

It's just nonsense. But you're going to note then what's taken over the temple. You've got people worshipping idols, idolatrous images of animals in a secret antechamber. You have women out in the open, in the temple complex, weeping for Tammuz.

Is Judah in a good religious place? Everybody at this point has a co-exist bumper sticker on their donkey cart. And they're all eating granola and they've gone vegan. It's just the weirdest stuff. But you get the idea.

And God says this is worse than what was going on in that secret antechamber. Out in the open, these women are openly weeping for Tammuz in the temple complex. So he brought me to the inner court of the house of Yahweh.

Behold, at the entrance of the temple of Yahweh, between the porch and the altar, were about 25 men with their backs to the temple of Yahweh and their faces towards the east, worshipping the sun toward the east.

God’s Wrath, Mercy, and the Mark on the Foreheads of the Faithful

Okay, let me kind of demonstrate this to you guys this way, all right. If I were to teach you by doing this, all right, today we're going to be talking about whatever I want to talk about. You know, you guys aren't very important.

Wow, what? That's really interesting over here. Okay, how would you guys feel? Like chopped liver, right? They're not even, he's not even paying attention to us, all right. So their backs are towards the temple, and what are they worshipping?

The sun. Why would you worship that? That was created by God, whose presence is in the temple. All right, uh-huh, this is nuts. So, and behold, between the entrance of the temple, between the porch and the altar, were about 25 men with their backs to the temple of Yahweh, their faces toward the east, worshipping the sun towards the east.

Then he said to me, have you seen this, O son of man? Is it too light a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations that they commit here, that they should fill the land with violence, provoke me still further to anger?

Behold, they put a branch to their nose, therefore I will act in wrath. My eye will not spare, nor will I have pity, and though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them. Then you sit there and you go, right?

Who preceded Ezekiel? Jeremiah, right? Did they listen to him? Had they listened to him, would they be under God's wrath? No. So you're going to remember this. God is slow to anger, abounding in steadfast love, slow to anger, abounding in steadfast love, pardoning iniquity.

That's all true of God. But slow to anger doesn't mean that he never gets angry. It just means he's got a really long fuse, really, really long fuse. The details are coming out right now regarding Mike Bickle of the International House of Prayer, IHOP.

It's not the pancake place. It's the International House of Prayer in Kansas City. And Mike Bickle has been one of the major superstar leaders of the New Apostolic Reformation for decades. And of course, I've covered him several notable times throughout my history at Fighting for the Faith and have warned people about him.

He's not a true prophet. And the way the International House of Prayer came about was through the so-called famous Kansas City prophets, of which Bickle was considered to be one of them. Bob Jones being another.

Hang on a second here. I've got to actually check my Twitter account to get the name of the other fellow because I forgot because I'm old now. I hate being old. Paul Cain. So Bob Jones, he basically was disgraced because of sexual sin.

Paul Cain was disgraced because of homosexual sin. And now Mike Bickle, it's come out that there are women coming forward from his congregation saying that for decades he's engaged in inappropriate sexual whatevers.

And we don't know the nature of the relationships per se. And this is all now coming forward. And I would note this. God was ridiculously patient with Mike Bickle. Insanely, to a fault, patient with him.

Because if this has been going on for decades as the allegations are going on, this guy for decades knew that he was acting contrary to God's Word, acting in rebellion against his commandments. And at any time he could have repented, could have turned, could have turned this whole thing around and been an example of God's grace.

But now you're going to know it in like it literally just like it happened overnight, but it didn't. Now the stories are getting out. The women are coming forward. The actions are being taken. He's being removed in disgrace.

So when God finally says enough is enough, guess what? It's enough. You think of Eli. Remember Eli and his sons? You remember them? Okay, let me remind us of that real quick. I'm going to go to 1 Samuel.

I need to keep that there. Hang on a second here because I want my Hebrew. I'm going to go to 1 Samuel. All right, 1 Samuel. So we've got the birth of Samuel in chapter 1. You've got Samuel given to the Lord.

You've got Hannah's prayer. And then listen to this. Eli's worthless sons, the high priest at the tabernacle was a fellow by the name of Eli. It says this, the sons of Eli, they were worthless men. They did not know Yahweh.

The custom of the priest with the people was that when any man offered sacrifice, the priest's servant would come while the meat was boiling with a three-pronged fork in his hand, and he would thrust it into the pan or kettle or cauldron or pot and all that the fork brought up, the priest would take for himself.

This was what they did at Shiloh for all the Israelites who came there. And by the way, the priests were permitted their portion of the sacrifice. That's how they were paid. Moreover, before the fat was burned, the priest's servant would come and say to the man who was sacrificing, give meat for the priest to roast, for he will not accept boiled meat from you, but only raw.

So now they're changing it up, okay? We're not going to obey. We're not going to go by the rules. We don't like boiled meat, but roasted meat tastes so much better, right? So, and if you would say to him, well, let them burn the fat first and then take as much as you wish, he would say, no, you must give it now.

And if you will, and if not, I will take it by force. Thus, the sin of the young men was very great in the sight of Yahweh, and the men treated the offering of Yahweh with contempt. There's more to it than that.

Let's see here. In 2 Samuel 2, 22, Eli was very old. He was, he kept hearing all that his sons were doing to all of Israel and how they lay with the women who were serving at the entrance to the tent of meeting.

I would note there are no original sins here. This sounds like today's problems, like all the way back then, religious men. So it's like, you know, it's like, oh, these women should have said to these sons, listen, it's Yahweh or the highway.

Get, you know, you know, no way we're going to do this, but no, they were, they were literally shacking up with these guys. So he said to them, why do you do such things? For I hear your evil dealings from all these people.

No, my sons, it is no good. It is no good report that I hear the people of Yahweh spreading abroad. If someone sins against a man, God will mediate for him. But if someone sins against Yahweh, who can intercede for him?

But they would not listen to the voice of their father, for it was the will of Yahweh to put them to death. So I would note that sexual sins are committed by men who are supposed to be the men of God, representing God to the people.

That's so grievous that God legitimately, like, threatens, like, really, really strong punishments along those lines. So, but all that being said, you'll note that God eventually acts in wrath. And Eli didn't restrain his sons.

He should have put an end to that altogether, did he? No, he did not. So similarly, the idea then. So God does act in wrath, but usually, you know, when God acts in wrath, it's after a long period, long period of patience, calling them to repentance.

And if somebody says, nope, I'm not going to do that, then God says, all right, I'm going to, we're going to, we're going to deal with it my way. And when God acts that way, it's usually very, quite decisive.

All right, so my eye will not spare, nor will I have pity, and though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them. So then he cried in my ears with a loud voice, saying, bring near the executioners of the city, each with his destroying weapon in his hand.

And behold, six men came from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with his weapon for slaughter in his hand, and with them a man clothed in linen, a writing case at his waist. And they went in and stood beside the bronze altar.

Now, this is an interesting bit. This is so much like the book of Revelation, it's not even funny. All right, so in the book of Revelation, you got these, you got these bowl judgments, you know, God pouring out bowls and stuff like this of wrath.

And then you've got the riders coming in with the different colored horses and things like this. So the spiritual reality here isn't the, is kind of, it's giving us the spiritual reality behind what will eventually become a physical reality.

The physical reality is that there were not six men who came and did these things, but the spiritual reality is that this is how God is likening it. And then Nebuchadnezzar becomes the means by which this is fulfilled in the natural, right?

So you kind of see a spiritual element to it. And then you also see the physical aspect of it coming about in a different way. This is also one of the reasons why when you're reading the book of Revelation, don't get hung up on the symbolism.

Look at what the symbolism is pointing to. This isn't that there were literally six avengers of God who went out and executed judgment on the city of Jerusalem. It's that these figurative six figures then represented what eventually takes place with the means by which God exercised his wrath by sending Nebuchadnezzar.

Does that make sense? Okay. Sometimes I feel like I've said words and am I confused? If I'm a little confused, you might still be, right? So here God is going to send these men and they're going to come and slaughter a bunch of people in the city.

That's not good. And I can hear Abraham going, but wait, Lord, what if there are 50 righteous people in the city? What if there's only 40? You can almost hear Abraham shouting from across the other pages of scripture going, wait a second, God, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.