The New Cults | Cultish

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00:02

All right, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish my name's Jeremiah Roberts one of the co -hosts here running solo today

00:09

This is a plethora of episodes if you've listened into our series on Shin Chan G or on the

00:15

Baha 'i Faith We're joined back by Steve Matthews same same day different time different t -shirt

00:22

So that's what happens sometimes me recording in Arizona. But um, yeah, this is gonna be a fun like off -the -fly conversation

00:27

We're just gonna be talking about really countercult Apologetics in general kind of talking about our vantage points.

00:34

Let's just jump into it So it's been very we've been doing this for five years now We started in October of 2018 at and man

00:41

We've covered a lot of encompassing topics and I it was very interesting when we first started I thought man

00:46

We've got maybe a year's worth of content like how long would a podcast giving a Christian perspective of countercults?

00:53

Would really even last and I've really we've barely even scratched the surface And so just with listening to the last two up the series

01:01

We've done like you've got a really a lot of knowledge and I love that you're kind of jumping into the podcasting world What do you think?

01:08

When it comes to countercult apologetics and everything that's going on like with all that's going on the culture

01:13

Like why do you think cults are just exploding right now? Do you see any commonalities because both of us are huge fans of Walter Martin, you know

01:20

The all that was happening during the 1970s when he came out to California. You're from, California Do you see a relation

01:26

Canada? Yeah, you keep saying that but yeah, I'm initially from Canada But then but they you live in California now.

01:32

Yeah, right, but Anyways, man. So what do your thought? What are your thoughts when you look at today in regards to like cults exploding?

01:40

What cults are changing all is you know and changing? Yeah, if Walter Martin was to write

01:46

Kingdom of the Cults today It would look very different You know, there's so much to go over in this conversation.

01:52

I think it's some really interesting stuff So I have a saying, you know, 21 year old kids are not rushing out in joining the

01:59

Jehovah's Witnesses anymore They're going to Burning Man festival, you know, people are into the secret and the laws of attraction

02:05

You know now you've got like the black Hebrew Israelites that weren't around before the old mission

02:11

Society Church of God the group that I'm The most worried about I'll just say let me just stop on that one world which site Church of God is a newer group

02:18

It took the Mormons 141 years to get to 3 million people to the Jehovah's Witness 107 years

02:24

World beside Church of God didn't 35 years in 1998. They're in one country 20 years later.

02:30

They're 175 countries Wow It's not like they were before Walter used to talk about you know, you put give someone a class and become a watchtower wonder

02:39

They'll wrap up a Christian to a doctrinal pretzel. Yeah, right. Well, these guys are worse There's a whole new breed of different groups coming on if you if people still think it's about the

02:48

Mormons Jehovah's Witness They don't have a clue. Most people in apologetics don't have a clue. You know now you're having all these different new groups

02:57

The New Age movement, they don't even call themselves New Age anymore The only people who use the words

03:02

New Age are Christians because that's what we were used to saying back in the day Yeah, and New Age music, you know

03:09

It's really true, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're always thinking like John John Tash like Christ.

03:16

He's a Christian though. Yeah, I know he is now Yeah, yeah, was he not before I've met. I don't think he was at one point. I think back in the hole

03:22

Yeah, we did the Avalon. I can't believe I actually know the name of that. That's embarrassing Yeah, but anyways your host.

03:28

Yeah So things that so now New Age had become more mainstream It was an evolving movement

03:34

Doug when Doug wrote I wrote his great book fantastic book I'm asking New Age. He talked about the inroads of New Age spiritual counterfeits project phenomenal counterculture

03:43

If you don't know them, you know, we'll get to a little bit of that in a second but you know he talked about you know, the the

03:50

New Age in quantum science and physics and in politics in the ecological movement in spirituality in Alternative medicine

03:58

New Age touched so many things but now it's become so mainstream They don't even call it. They call it like the new consciousness movement or alternative spirituality

04:05

They don't use the word and I've heard people who say open -source spirituality. Yeah, there's a million descriptions right now

04:11

But it's basically this fusion of Eastern mysticism. Our culture is moving farther and farther away from our

04:17

Christian moorings You know America used to be such a more Christian country even among people weren't going to church they'd be have a lot of reverence at Thanksgiving and thanking

04:25

God working in American history, but as we have left the Bible behind and Families are breeding new families of just kind of humanistic people.

04:36

They're becoming more and more woke You know, everything's changing people are more able to fall for these new groups that you're talking about So back in the day you had your established groups kind of like in the came to the cult

04:47

Yeah You know the Mormons Jehovah's Witnesses uni school Christianity Christian science all those kind of pseudo Christian established cults and Walter at the right

04:53

The new cults, you know in the you know, and then he had to take on well There's a new wave coming from you know,

05:00

India you got, you know, Hare Krishna and transcendental meditation Yeah, divine light mission, you know with Guru Maharjee all these kind of guys so things kept on changing and changing

05:09

Things continue to evolve again, you know fault is there he'd have to put out the new new cults or something, you know We're having a tremendous wave now of cults coming from Asia and these guys are a very very different breed of cult where they're

05:22

Very hardcore very demanding they they get people in through love -bombing they control you by fear guilt and shame and When you leave they shun you and you get

05:34

PTSD and don't want to go to church and pray and read the Bible anymore Yeah, it's a whole different makeup these groups.

05:40

So they're they're exploding. They're huge in the millions Yeah, you know and one thing to do like Walter Martin He was he was brilliant not only in counterculture apologetics been brilliant in leveraging

05:50

Technology so in the same way how he tell you we're talking about how how cults will outdo us when it comes to It's a really made information out when you look at for example

05:59

Even like on the Scientology Network you look at the production and quality of the millions of dollars that goes into that You're like, oh my goodness.

06:05

Like how do we whenever starting cultures? I was watching the Scientology Network I'm like, how do we compete with that?

06:12

Yeah, the Mormon campaign. I'm a Mormon I mean, they've got such amazing work, you know, I'll just say like, you know

06:17

Mormonism So when Walter Martin used to speak about Mormonism, you know, he'd say well, there's a missionary training center in Provo, Utah, right?

06:25

And you know, there's like 14 temples and there's you know Three million people.

06:31

Well now you got 15 missionary training centers He had a hundred and sixty some dedicated temples a lot more on the way.

06:37

Yes coming 17 million people It's a whole different thing. Now. These groups are leveraging technology.

06:42

Like you're looking at smartphones, you know You'll have like Baha 'i prayers in the app you'll have the

06:48

Kabbalah Center, you know all their kind of stuff in there, too the

06:53

Mormon Gospel Library All that they're leveraging techno when you're a member of a cult, you know

06:59

If you're a Wiccan you're gonna open up your phone You're gonna go right to that app store and look for the Wiccan read or you know The grimoires and all this so you're gonna be actually digging deep because you could leverage technology

07:08

So these guys back from the day of Walter, you know things have changed so much these culture bigger

07:13

They're richer. They're more powerful. They know how to do it better. They've really learned by trial and error.

07:18

They're better marketing They're they're a whole different game in town now Yeah, well, you don't even have to be rich to start a cult and you think about technology

07:26

All you really need is one you just have to be a cold of personality You need you need a simple a couple hundred dollars set up from Best Buy and you need a tick -tock account

07:36

Yeah, and we're gonna be seeing AI cults coming up. I mean, it's not even gonna be human cults The cult of AI, I mean we're under such a tremendous change

07:44

I mean, you know the traditional cults, you know As I said, they start off like the pseudo Christian cults and then they moved we went through the human potential movement, right?

07:53

We're like forum. Well s which became forum which became landmark and then you had all these other, you know human potential groups

08:01

You had some mystical calls like I can car and John Roger MSI a movement of spiritual inner awareness and some of those kind of groups

08:09

Things are constantly evolving like, you know, I mentioned Burning Man before so Burning Man is a it's not a religion and it's not a

08:16

Cult, but it's a spiritual movement for sure. And the way I describe it is it's a replacement for religion.

08:22

Yeah, so you have Transformational festivals you have lightning in a bottle and California I mean, there's so many of these festivals and they're outdoor activities where you go out there

08:31

Kind of get in touch with Mother Nature and connector, you know spiritual self It's kind of like a retreat environment where you go and do that spiritual work.

08:40

Yeah, and You know these groups, you know, they they anything goes spiritually say constant exploration

08:47

They kind of mix a lot of Eastern mysticism with the occult anything goes anything can contradict, you know

08:52

It doesn't have to be consistent. And the one thing it's ridiculed is Christianity in the gospel Mm -hmm, you know, you'll see like I've been a burning man.

08:59

They've had really bad irreverent things out there in the playa. That's wow Yeah, it's just it's bad news, but this is where kids are going.

09:07

So they're driving past They'll be driving from across the country to go to Burning Man spending thousands of dollars

09:13

They have to get off work for a week They're eating horrible food, which is all contaminated this lake bed of sulfuric ground dust

09:20

It gets into all your food your electronics makes your your body your your feet bleed and stuff

09:25

You have these dust storms, but your eyes hurt They drive past 1 ,500 churches to get out into that desert for a week with no elect just convicting

09:33

No electricity. No water. No cell phone No I'll cut off from the outside world to have this petri dish where they go and create this new kind of reality out there

09:43

It's kind of it's almost like almost like a metaphor for like a virtual world in the physical world So they call it when you go on to the playa.

09:50

They say welcome home a term often used by pagans, too Yeah, and you know, it's it's basically this is they call this the default world

09:58

So they kind of turn reality in its head. They say that that's the real world This is kind of like the fake world.

10:04

So you're coming home there, but then you go back to the default world You have to go decompress after the burn. Yeah, and it's just such a whole different kind of The new generation is very experience oriented, you know, they don't want to pay to own stuff

10:17

You know studies are shown, you know, the younger generation now the the generation whatever up to now

10:23

They they want access not ownership so they want to spend their money in an experience where they go out and do these experiences and You know like a

10:31

D DIY DIY, you know create your own reality and religion kind of thing where yeah kind of Take a pick and pick of all this kind of stuff.

10:38

Yeah What do you think like the way a lot of people for example? We've only kind of tapped into it a little bit is like AI.

10:45

That's something there is areas What's the spiritual counterfeits project when we first azing group?

10:51

Yeah, so we I'll give shout out to them when we first started cultures. We did this one Episode on is called

10:58

Anthony Levandowski in the Church of AI and it was it was forever ago This is like four years ago and so much has changed since then but there's like the spiritual component that always seems to come along in with artificial intelligence because in some sense

11:11

It's a replication of our scent of ourselves So people look at something like Sophia and they feel like we could maybe have because they're emulating us

11:18

So maybe if we understand we got in our image. Yeah, we can understand ourselves better Like what's your take on all that?

11:25

Like what's what do you think? What do you think about? Oh, we're creating a religion our image Any I need any time we have something good give it to us as humanity

11:32

We always find a good way to turn it for evil. You know, I think of Romans chapter 1 It says they're inventors of evil things, you know, we

11:39

We do that so it's like we're our heart has that you know Christ shaped hole in it and we want to fill it somehow and whether we do it by going out to the desert or going chanting in front of a scroll or if we want to You know do it in a million different ways.

11:54

We're gonna try do it. There's so much power in AI It's it's it's almost like an infinite world, but it's an alternative world where we can anonymously participate

12:03

It's almost like a new way to Push the envelope and spirituality. Yeah, so we're just gonna we're gonna look for something and we're gonna do it

12:10

We're gonna use tech for that. Yeah. Well, it's interesting What do you think? People would even debate or ask us whether or not even like AI is neutral in the sense to where some people say it's inherently

12:20

Demonic, which I think this may be wrong word. Yeah, I think It's more of a secular thing that can be utilized.

12:27

Yeah, I think I think it's also if you try and take that route You're starting to sort of take an idea of like that You're trying to blend the material between the immaterial say good in the profane, right?

12:36

And so what's what's interesting is that I think that AI is neutral in the sense that it's but it's only in the sense

12:42

That it artificially emulates did the image bear that's utilizing it, right and we pull the lever

12:48

I fall an image bear What do you think's gonna happen? Yeah, so I'll just give you example of like a I being used for evil where Jeff pastor

12:55

Jeff will With the ministry we do towards abortion and encountering that there's times where we've uploaded

13:01

He's uploaded video on YouTube without giving any geotags like whatsoever And AI will actually pick up the fact that he utilizes language in it and immediately will demonetize it

13:11

So you see in some sense AI artificially suppressing the truth and unrighteousness Exactly.

13:17

It's it's the tool for people Yep, I do. Yep. Yep, if I can go back to spiritual counterfeits project, you should have a shout out

13:24

So in the world account occult apologetics, there's two kinds of ways to kind of look at things So you have Christian Research Institute, which came from Uncle Wally.

13:31

Yeah, if I we can call him that right I call him that It basically they take on a lot of groups that kind of have a biblical authority or authority system

13:40

So for example, if you're talking to a Muslim you can use the Quran against the Muslim if you're talking about with a Mormon You can use the

13:45

Book of Mormon against Mormon If you're talking with a witness you could take them to the Bible use the Bible. So it's got that authority thing against them spiritual counterfeits project did a much more complex kind of thing where they

13:56

Go after groups who don't have that authority based scripture and they try through common ground and reasoning to try to show how a lot

14:02

Of that stuff is false. Mmm, so there's a whole thing. They're a group out of Berkeley They're kind of going through a lot of changes, but they have an amazing legacy

14:09

They took in the 70s transcendental meditation to court when it was coming to our high schools and using taxpayer money to Hindu rituals and you know a lot of Americans even non -believers love spiritual counterfeits project for that because it saves all a

14:22

Boatload of money for them for this Hindu thing being, you know recognized in the Supreme Court and boot it up So they've done a lot of these really complex issues, you know, like Wicca.

14:32

They've done outstanding work on that Groups that are much more slippery in that kind of reasoning process as opposed to just the

14:39

Christian stuff to take there Yeah, let me ask you one last question We could also tie it into just counter called apologetics in the

14:44

New Age because what New Age a lot of times will do I? Guess I'm still using an old -school term, but you know modern -day spirituality or whatever you want to call it

14:51

It's very sure. Yeah, they'll take things there in any way that are vague and they'll affirm the reality of those

14:56

But they'll take any place that that's vague or nuanced. They'll try and that's what they'll stick something in like the like karma or your third eye or consciousness and people they'll

15:09

They'll fuse they'll secretize it like within the whole AI conversation that AI is an extension of our of our consciousness

15:15

But what do you think the area as far as? Technology when it comes is like how

15:20

Christians should deal with it. So you think of like Elon Musk or Sam Harris? They look at the idea of singularity, which is about is the idea that eventually

15:27

AI will surpass us. Like what does that look like? They they fear it. So when Elon Musk is talking all those years ago about us opening up the demon

15:35

I think he was talking about well They're eventually there's gonna be a point where they're gonna be the dominant AI will be the dominant speeches

15:40

So he fears it in that sense Skynet Yeah so I look at a lot and I am asking myself questions to like I have a child on the way and and that's

15:48

Bring him into this world Like what technology I expose him to it. I even put a kid on my child on social media

15:54

Like there's a lot of questions I'm asking myself and never asked before and I think a lot of people aren't now because the world is changing so fast

16:00

Few months for chat GDP. I mean, it's such a fast change. Oh, it's crazy. It's yeah Yeah, I mean, we don't even know where it's going.

16:06

We can speculate. I mean You know, there's enough other groups enough things to kind of analyze on the other stuff.

16:12

But absolutely Hey, I want to go back to the Asian rise of Asian cults. Yeah, let's go for that. So You have a lot of monsterly big groups coming out of Asia now and they're going around the world and what happens though with a lot of groups is that You know like one of the groups it was really big like the group that more people saw counselors in The 1990s and all of the cults put together at the same time was the

16:34

Boston Church of Christ Kip McKean's movement Oh, yeah, and this is the group who's in their campus ministry.

16:39

They go into campus They believe baptism is for salvation that they're the only true church that I original sin They've got some messed up things.

16:45

You got to do the first principles and they become a disciple a discipling partner They they really forced your personality

16:52

We'll get no warrant of behavior control But they kind of made you in the image of Kip McKean when it's not your God -given

16:57

Personality and the people I started have emotional breakups and all that over that stuff So that was a really good big group at that time.

17:04

It did a lot of damage to people Now a lot of these Asian groups are like that They do massive damage the thing about ICC in the

17:12

Boston We're a lot of people here aware of how destructive their divisive inside of churches So they're having better success overseas the same with Asian groups there.

17:19

They're getting bad reputations their home countries But now they're able to export it to the West and they're starting to make followers over here

17:26

So I gave a word on the world mission site church regard their Korean group Watch her episode on shin chonji because it's we get into a lot of stuff not about shin chonji

17:36

We get the whole cult dynamics and that that show took on a life of its own I think it was a powerful episode.

17:41

So I think that's one worth watching for people to sing here today So shin chonji is another Korean group.

17:46

Then you have JMS province who also goes by Christian gospel mission. They're the ones who are covering the Netflix show in the name of God So the this is another

17:55

Korean high -demand group. There's a whole bunch of them then in China you have like Eastern Lightning Which is called the

18:02

Church of Almighty God Some of you might have seen that horrible video where they attacked this lady in 2014 and McDonald's in China and they beat her to death in front of her kid

18:12

There was six members of Eastern Lightning there and this lady wouldn't want to give her number To these people so they could try to evangelize her and they just ended up beating her to death with a broom handle

18:19

It's on YouTube. It's really bad. Oh, wow. So this is a group that says that Jesus has returned as a

18:26

Chinese woman living in New York and They've got millions of followers Very they can be violent.

18:32

They can be scary there They have that's another thing culture moving online

18:38

They're not meeting just like the church corner the meeting on whatsapp and telegram in ways They never do before because they have a secret audience.

18:44

They can block people from being in there. They're holding server This is the future cults and a lot of these groups. They're doing online restricted meetings like that So there's

18:51

Facebook messenger. Yeah, but a lot of those groups. So Eastern Lightning's a group is growing quickly. There's millions of them

18:57

They've only been around since like 1991 And then they're now or is it I do but they could they've got this like Maybe four million people in no time and they're a fanatical group

19:09

He Fallon gone Fallon Doff is arguably the biggest cult in the world now 30 to 100 million people.

19:14

We're not sure but they're another kind of Asian Kind of group. It's kind of got some humanism spiritual views.

19:21

They're not as hardcore as Eastern Lightning In Japanese groups, you got Soka Gakkai.

19:26

There was a big split He's be called Nishin Shoshu of American issues or Buddhism Yeah, and then you had in 92 you had a big split between the priesthood and the lady

19:34

So now you have Nishin Shoshu is the priestly part and then you have the lady part of Soka Gakkai International That's one of the big celebrity cults.

19:41

So when I talk about cults, I'll talk about the four celebrity cults would be Scientology Transcendental Meditation Soka Gakkai International and TM or Kuala Center they said to you

19:52

Kuala Center. So that's famous for all the people they had brought to LA for that one Yeah, but Soka Gakkai is a really big group.

19:59

They're like they claim 11 million people Japanese hardcore cult.

20:05

They're the chanters go to them. You hold ring a kill So what they do is they kneel before the sacred scroll call a gahan son

20:11

And they put inside this case called the boots of dawn and they sit there with these Juzu beads They like the rosary beads. They chant to it.

20:17

Now. I'm your home ring a kill now I'm going to go and this is a group as it's attracted They're way bigger Jehovah's Witnesses Wow, and they're celebrity cult and it's like where's the responses on those guys, you know?

20:27

Yeah Yeah, it's just it's just insane Well, even like we had an episode we did when he first launched and this is forever ago and I remember his name

20:35

But he was from the Philippines and he is Apollo Apollo quill boy quill boy, and he remember that one.

20:40

Yeah, and he was the Filipino son of God He's another person. He wears all white. He basically dresses if you watch his show.

20:46

I swear he Copied Benny him. This is your day

20:51

Like what do I check in with with how he interacts with the TV screen and how he prays now he places his hands

20:58

I'm like you I know you've got I know where you got this. Yeah, exactly

21:03

I was like that meme of I was it from the ones about Tom in Hollywood where he's like pointing hats the

21:08

TV Yeah, that was that was my response when I saw it But just goes to show that you know, something like the Philippines came in a massive following but just Asian culture

21:16

Yeah, it's crazy thing. Most people in apologetics don't know that so, you know, I've discussed the

21:21

Korean groups I've discussed some of these Chinese groups are getting big Japan I get another call happy science the leader just died a couple months ago.

21:28

They were all praying for his resurrection every day We are Akawa of happy science. They claim 14 million.

21:33

I think that number is radically inflated like the Japanese Scientologists Yeah, they believe in you know, communicating with spirits and all this kind of stuff, you know

21:39

Obama speaks to master and everything and El Cantare is God for them. That's another really big group in the

21:46

Philippines you got a glish in a Christo and a glish in a Christo can be violent and bad news there's if you want to watch a

21:53

Something on YouTube to freak out on that one. There's a Canadian show called the fifth estate.

21:59

It's kind of like our 60 minutes Yeah, and Google look up a kidnapping violence a glish in a

22:04

Christo and you'll see something there the way they do some crazy things Yeah, so they're they're pretty rough group, too some of the groups you have to watch out for kind of violent will move from the

22:14

Asian groups to a Group has gotten really big a Mexican group called Luz del Mundo. Yeah, LL DM You've you know where the temple is over here over here.

22:23

Yeah, that's right down the street. They just had an HBO doc They had documented HBO about that. It's unbelievable.

22:29

There's so many of these groups. Yeah, I think so That's why we're doing this today. Yeah things have changed.

22:34

It's not about the Mormons witnesses I have people I know in my life or to lose the window sweet people

22:40

Now that guy that was interesting is there's another show then the one in the name of God on on JMS The one

22:49

I just mentioned before Providence Church, and he is doing time right now in jail

22:54

He's a pervert who's molested hundreds of young girls from his cult and he's gone away for years and years.

23:00

Well, yeah Apostle Nassan from Luz del Mundo is sitting in an LA jail for a bunch of years, too

23:05

And they don't know the members why they lie to the members why he's in there. Don't go on the Internet Don't look up the story. But you know, this is why he's in there.

23:12

He's being persecuted Yeah, but it's not because he's out of hundreds and they've got recordings and everything of these poor young women that Apostle so Apostle Nassan and You know

23:22

JMS the same thing these horrible. I've breeds. I've dude. I've watched a lot of cult documentaries

23:28

Thing now, right? Yeah, or whether it's next to him or polygous Mormons. I mean people are interested in that side of life

23:34

Yeah but this is one and I feel like and you have to be careful because I feel like sometimes you can almost get numb to It because you hear it so much.

23:40

We don't want to be desensitized. We want our heart to break for these. I Remember watching it was the HBO documentary on Lucille Mundo and I was

23:48

I was viscerally angry Like my wife was like, are you okay? Cuz it was just one you saw the victimization but then when when the state of California gave him a plea bargain when they promised the victims they wouldn't like I was just It was like that vengeance is mine.

24:02

Say the Lord took a whole new level of gravitas of that. Absolutely But um, yeah, it just well the children of God did that stuff back in you know, like the 60s 70s family love

24:13

Moses David Berg is from Huntington Beach right in my backyard and I remember crying once weeping when

24:20

I saw one of their tracks of little Unclothed children in these different positions. I just wept.

24:25

I mean the evil that comes out of some of these groups, you know next way attract Yeah, I don't want to talk.

24:33

Yeah, it's basically it's like what's more of why I'm not sure they are Maybe we don't call them attract me.

24:38

I think it's just like an eternal pamphlet, but it's it's basically Vile depictions of children and it's just they're just they were a wicked evil cult.

24:46

I talked about hookers for Jesus They would say God is love. Yeah, so They'd say do you do flirty fishing and be hookers for Jesus and the

24:54

David Moses David Berg He had these mo letters which are these kind of cartoon books Got them all and he'd go out there, you know

25:01

Telling women to go sleep with people to bring him into the cult and then you know They'd be in bed with their one -night stand and they'd be saying hey, you know,

25:09

I'm gonna show you the love of God Was this to them their gospel while they're in bed with the guy It's just like it was an evil group at the time and then now

25:16

NXIVM has come out and there's another sex ployed of cult I mean a lot of these, you know, we talked about back in the

25:21

Mormonism all the Mike Ranieri. Yeah when we were on with Mike Rinder, I think he said that he when he wants, you know

25:28

Mike Rinder said he watched the vow He said he basically copied Scientology and you'll see that a lot as these cults grow they evolve and they expand and that's one things

25:36

Walter Martin back in the day was really sort of trying to send the alarm bell on He talked about how they're getting organized that people who wouldn't talk with each other are now talking with each other and this is the 1970s now we're looking at 2023 and You're seeing the same thing.

25:51

It's just it's nothing new under the Sun. It's just different Communication barrier were influenced by the seven -day

25:57

Venice and with Scientology. Yep, those two, you know I mean there's one is more like the pseudo

26:02

Christian based and one is more that but I Certain cults have changed like I was saying before they came to the cults

26:07

I mean if you look at that Christian science, they used to call the cult of little old ladies Well that little ladies group is dying out.

26:12

They're getting yeah lawsuits of compelling interest to protect the children in Massachusetts You know for letting them die without seeing doctors and stuff like that.

26:19

So they're kind of fading away quickly Unity School of Christianity. When's the last time met one of those, you know

26:25

Armstrong is it become a kind of Christian Church now the Grace Communion International the way international there's little splinter groups out there

26:32

They were a thing there were everyone was worried about the way a while ago Victor Paul We will died now, you know that kind of went by the wayside.

26:39

So Came to the cost to look very different now, you know, you'd have to be looking, you know, the

26:44

Kabbalah Center I mentioned them as one of the big celebrity cults. They claim millions of people too They've gone through a lot of changes with you know

26:50

The Berg family one by one dying away than you who to Berg being more sex offending stuff He's gone from the family, but it's like you'd have groups like that.

26:59

You'd have the Hebrew Israelites United Pentecostal International All that if you know we're all beside Church of God all these groups that now would be in a newer version that came to the car because It's been radically changed and it's just like these are all important souls through Christ died for they all have different Bay and that's another thing it fascinates me too.

27:20

It's like, you know, you'll have like, you know, we're beside Church of God They love to go to Walmart to try to reach out to people

27:25

Walmart So they go to you know, knock it on doors and everything then you'll have you know International Church of Christ Kip McKean's guys now, there's a splinter movement

27:34

He's in because you got kicked out of his own movement So now it's the ICC so went from the Boston Church of Christ Which became the

27:40

LA Church of Christ in the International Churches of Christ and now it's the international Christian churches

27:45

So they're a campus ministry They're going out to kids on campus world beside Church of God's going after people on campuses

27:51

And then you have like shin -shin -ji who are coming into the churches to take people so you have all the different groups

27:57

Some go to your door some go to the campuses. All right, so I'm coming at your churches It's like Satan is working in many different ways to get every last soul that he can get it's like, you know

28:05

He's not leaving any stone uncovered Yeah not only that I think one of the areas to which we kind of talked about in our episode with shin -shin -ji is that you also

28:12

Have the positive aspect of a technology network now information Exploiting these cults is now available earning the

28:18

Mormons. Yeah, earning the Jehovah's Witnesses have stayed pretty flat for like 20 years They're a million people. They're just not growing.

28:24

Like I said, unless you're born in the Jehovah's Witnesses You're not gonna rush out and join Jehovah's Witnesses. You're gonna be doing some of these more do -it -yourself religions, you know

28:31

And then Wicca, Wicca is more popular than Christianity in most college campuses Why the heck would

28:37

I want to be part of your religion Jeremy with Jeremiah? Hi guys where it says

28:44

You know your book says you shall not suffer a witch to live you guys persecute us you killed us at Salem You guys are evil and all this is witches are gonna say you don't understand us

28:53

We don't even believe in the devil. You know, we were a peace -loving nature religion of Mother Earth and everything and And it's like you guys don't like gay people

29:02

They'll say yeah, and it's like why the heck what I want to follow your religion when I could have this earth -loving friendly nature religion

29:09

Yeah season, you know this stuff like this is what I'm into now And yeah, that's a I mean in campuses and and like witchcraft has really changed, you know

29:18

Like it's it's now like a lot of do -it -yourself Witches they'll kind of get on, you know, Instagram or the influencer area and wit and witchcraft are just it's a new version of it so statistically the in tick -tock

29:33

The hashtag witch talk the amount of pieces of content last time I checked it was around 30 billion

29:38

It's probably more it's insane 30 who has 30 billion of anything. Well, let's let's go let's talk about wicked and this worldview that one so There's a worldview that a lot of Christians will get confused of paganism witchcraft is

29:54

Part of what you would call paganism like with a capital P. Okay Paganism is a worldview.

30:01

It's kind of a spirituality. It's a pantheistic polytheistic nature religion Yeah, I'll say that again.

30:07

It's kind of a movement. You got a capital P in paganism It's not like you know in Christianity you talk about the pagans those who the pagans those who lived on the you know

30:16

Like heathens those who lived in the heaths the outskirts of town the last to be evangelized The pagans were kind of the indigenous religion

30:22

Yeah of spirituality where people You know took this idea of like Mother Earth and the different gods and energy in the pantheism kind of like, you know

30:31

The animism and all this stuff. It was like the indigenous nature religion So pay it so now you're talking about like paganism with a capital

30:38

P you're talking about Wicca Druidism shamanism Burning mouth in there.

30:44

Yeah, heathen ism paganism and that's the religion. It's all about like, you know, Earth Mother feminine spirituality seasonal cycles festivals sacred spaces sacred geometry that whole

30:57

Pantheistic kind of mother and feminine spirituality a lot of Christians get this wrong as they confuse new age with paganism

31:05

They're very different new age Pagans will laugh at it and they'll say those guys are called fluffy bunnies

31:12

You know, they kind of mock it they say it's not a real deal So we pagans are the real deal The essential problem mankind is we've lost our interconnectedness with nature and the oneness of all things now

31:23

The similarity with new age and paganism and paganism is kind of taking a new whole growth as we could tell right so you had

31:30

You know the pop Shirley MacLaine the fatter stuff in the 80s and 90s, right and all these different movements the Eastern stuff

31:36

Paganism, I think it's coming to fill the void in a lot of people's hearts now because they're looking for stuff Called the tick -tock and stuff.

31:41

They want this kind of do -it -yourself spiritual kind of religion new age thinks you manifest

31:48

Reality outside of yourself you kind of create it but paganism says no No, this is very very real the stuff that's going on around us.

31:55

It's not it mind over matter It's not saying we manifest the this is very real the nature and stuff.

32:00

We just got to fit in with that nature. So They're both oneness. They're both, you know, like Peter Jones. Yeah.

32:06

Oh one or two exactly Yeah, you want to say for listeners if there's your first time? Yeah, one or two seeing a world of difference

32:12

That's a book. We is definitely on a recommended list. I would definitely recommend what is One ism and two ism.

32:18

I'm doing that real quick. Yeah, what's that? You can explain that? Yeah, so I want to just very quickly is that one ism versus two.

32:23

So basically worship is inevitable I mean, this is Paul like Romans one is really

32:28

Paul's doctoral thesis on paganism where worship is inevitable You're going to work. You're right.

32:34

It's an indigenous religion Romans one Oh man's left alone with outside revelation. He's gonna create his own religion.

32:40

He's gonna worship the race. Exactly. That's what paganism Yeah, he is. So there's no there's no distinction between creation and creator that that's some that's pain

32:48

There's all the witness of all things They'll wash out like good evil light dark male female exactly versus to where there is a distinction

32:56

There's a categorical distinction dualism between the creation and the creator which you see that Perfectly meshed together in the incarnation

33:05

And so that's that's what you see the distinction between the two and so whenever you see somebody

33:11

Talking in simplistic terms are talking about one ism and ultimately from a theological standpoint.

33:16

It's inconsistent because the Area in which they try to argue that you need to ascend

33:24

It's it's self contradictory because how do you ascend ultimately outside of yourself?

33:30

How do you truly ascend where's the destination when all is one wherever you ascend you're gonna end up in the same place and then

33:37

From a practical standpoint There's a reason why people who are from a new age as they all at every single person who's been the new age or the occult

33:43

They all identify with calling it a spiritual narcotic because you continually have to find right else because you never arrive at this nation

33:51

Yoga incense tarot, and then what's it next week, man? You're always psychedelics You're always looking for something new because you're on this kind of journey

34:00

It's not that you never arrive and it's like well if truth's really out there. Yeah, absolutely true So that's that's something

34:06

I mean, I think we're moving towards more paganism like that. Oh, yeah They talk about techno paganism where a lot of people in IT and programmers stuff really fall into this stuff

34:14

Yeah, but you go to the Burning Man festival. There's a lot of people who are you know, cubicle working Programmers and they just want to get out in the playa harshly as a vent valve to kind of party and have fun for sure

34:25

Hedonism. Yeah, and I and I think too that you know The West right now is in is to complete an utter freefall like into paganism

34:33

We're going into another dark age for sure, you know, some people debate whether or not this is the end times I think we're going into a dark age but what

34:39

I think what you're gonna see and you're seeing it now is that a lot of sort of the Demonic Manifestations is something that typically was reserved for people who would serve in the mission field and a really place somewhere in them in the

34:52

Middle East or in some obscure place in India that's starting to manifest itself

34:57

Here in the West and I think some of us not seeing that has actually been a blessing it's a by way of the impact that gospel has had on America and in the on the

35:06

West and now as that's Pulling back. You're seeing the veil being unfold.

35:11

And so I think when you look at What's even going on the sphere when it comes to the difference between transgenderism and the distinction and also breaking down the categories?

35:22

Why like of all the things that secularism could do as a way as they become more secular like why gender? Why is it such a big thing?

35:28

Well when you just look at Romans chapter 1 like and that's the problem too. Is that why secular conservatism is absolutely you're trying to make a

35:38

Parachute out of a handkerchief is because when someone like Matt Walsh just tries to argue biology It's nonsense because it's really at its root.

35:46

It's neo -pagan. There's no Supreme Court candidate. What's that? That's gone up to the level in our country and our culture up to the

35:54

Educated person who was a candidate for Supreme Court who can't tell what a woman is, right? I mean, this is the bind we're in this is getting serious and that's because and we see the worldviews have consequences

36:04

And so I understand as a Christian like I look at the issues right now as a Christian first And I'm saying this is a neo -pagan problem

36:10

You can't argue if you're arguing biology, you're doing it wrong. You're trying to basically only argue from one side of the coin

36:18

You're not looking at the spiritual component. And so that's why I think when we look at this Whole when we look at all the encompassing areas of the

36:25

Colts, I think are what we've done is incredibly important I feel like we've only scratched the surface it's important for us for this ministry to move forward and now more than ever because like 2020 the one thing that came out of it was just I knew there's like there's gonna be political uncertainty and You see like it's all vid.

36:41

Yeah, and the show that had a huge. Yeah I look at our alienation from each other and everything Not only that like shin chonji literally like said revelation was about kovat and that's gonna happen even more

36:52

Like I don't I have no hope for the 2024 election whatsoever except it's gonna be an absolute dumpster fire

36:58

There's gonna be more polarization and all the headlines in 2024 It's just gonna be literally like magazines cover for a wake magazine or every other

37:07

Colt Recruiting technique to say hey We're the Noah's Ark come here And then what you're gonna see as we wrap up here is that people are gonna be spit out the other end

37:16

They're gonna try and pick up the pieces and one one of the documentaries I actually watched a couple years ago really enjoyed was this

37:21

Netflix documentary called Tony Robbins. I'm not your guru. I know it in it There's this moment and this is right around when

37:28

I was thinking about doing Colt is there's this moment that stuck with me when this One lady who was a member of the children of God and it comes up to Tony if you've seen that It's a very emotional most powerful most the entire documentary us

37:39

Tony Robbins. He's not a Christian He offers solutions that don't include the gospel and I but I had to like Really ask myself.

37:48

Okay. Well if she came up to me What would I say? That's heavy.

37:54

That's heavy. That's not a real deal stuff. That's that's the real deal This is the big leagues.

38:00

Like what do you say to someone whose whole association with God is? Completely associated with being sex -trafficked

38:09

Do you want to That's big leagues. That's big deal. You would that's that's the arena that you very deeply and so can

38:16

Exploited wounded people and the way I look at it is when we do this countercult stuff, you know, you could say

38:23

You know this person over here is a specialist for some crazy rare disease that like, you know, 20 people a year get

38:30

For you who cares that doctor exists, but guess what if you're the father and you got your daughter that doctor is mighty important Yeah, we're specialists in what we do here

38:40

We might not matter in answering these cults to a lot of people But when your son is in college and he's getting sucked in this group and breaking the relationship with you now

38:51

That's suddenly the center universe. Yeah, and that's why It was it's good to do an episode like this to kind of Look at the direction the flow where things are going

39:00

To know the enemy Francis Schaeffer said we have to know the language of our culture and a lot of people in apologetics

39:08

Don't even get all these changes like yeah, let loose del mundo. It's got more than 2 ,000 locations out there

39:14

They claim 5 million people. They're growing under our nose all these groups that are exploding.

39:20

Yeah, and it's like That's why like we talked earlier like The part that I'm working on a new project exposing the cults calm and we're gonna have different websites whether it's

39:30

Mormons, you can send the event ISM or Ekin car or Baha 'i or the secret all these different things and we want to and it's like we need answers, but it's hard to even keep up It's like getting that Bucket in your sinking boat and trying to yeah get tread water

39:47

But you know by relying on God's grace by collaborating other Christians I mean it's a joy to be here and to See your heart for these people with the great work you're doing here in front of the scenes and It's been a blessing to see behind the scenes how you're reaching out to you know the pro -life community was awesome and the homeless and God is using your corner and more churches have got to really

40:10

To pick up the slack because there's a lot of it's not just about living your best life now It's not just about my thing is

40:16

I also think people have are so overwhelmed now Their daily lives that they they just can't even take on anything else

40:21

When we do need to step up and have a heart if a lot of Christians could just learn one group really well

40:27

You know We'd be we'd be so much farther along and saving a lot of people from tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people from These groups.

40:35

Yeah. No, I am a man brother So I appreciate that and just tell them a lot one last time like where's your are you're kind of setting up home base for?

40:41

Yourself already exposing the cults calm is the website Exposing the cults podcast and then there'll be links there to a whole bunch of other groups and we're going to try to make them all gold standard resources we've got a lot of really cool stuff in the works for this and you know, we want to get exposure and support and interest in this where people will you know use this mightily hopefully in the

41:04

Lord's hands awesome well Thank you again for coming on and we got a wrap up here because our Producer Gabe has gone extra innings with us.

41:10

We definitely thankful for that and we got to do another collaboration soon Maybe we'll come out to California next time and we'll maybe do some on this rewitnessing.

41:18

I'm I'm all about it Let's figure something out. All right. Well if you guys enjoyed this episode, this is just an overall overview

41:23

Just talking about the state of our culture in relation to the kingdom of the cults and the world They are called and all that entails

41:29

So all that being said we will talk to you all next time where we on coldest where we enter into kingdom of the