August 2, 2022 Show with Jeremy Brandenburg on “Patriarchy: Repression, Obsession, or the Design of God?”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on the second day of August 2022.

I'm thrilled to have back as a returning guest today somebody who is becoming a very good friend of mine, a fairly recently installed pastor here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Jeremy Brandenburg, a former Army officer and the new pastor of Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Today we are going to be addressing a very controversial issue, patriarchy, repression, obsession, or the design of God. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jeremy Brandenburg.

Well, tell our listeners, especially for the sake of those who did not hear you last time you were on the broadcast, tell our listeners about Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

I thought you were a Presbyterian church, not a Baptist church.

I was going to say, it's a blessing in the Presbyterian church. But anyway, all the glory to God, people are coming, they're staying,. And you are, and I'm not just flattering you here,.

Or I should say I'm not flattering you. I know you wouldn't. But you are a really extraordinary preacher. I had the privilege of hearing you preach when you were a guest preacher at the aforementioned Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle.

And that was a real great blessing and an edifying experience for me, hearing you preach. Yes, and Simon just told me after Lord's Day worship that he would like to return to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to discuss Foundations of the Christian Faith, which was the theme of his sermon on Sunday.

And I'm hoping that he sticks to his word and comes back on, because I really love interviewing him. If anybody wants more information about Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, go to RedeemerOPC .org.

RedeemerOPC .org. And as I said at the outset of the program, this theme today, patriarchy, is very controversial, especially since there are people who profess to be Christians and some people who are Christians, but who have taken the term patriarchy, which they use to identify themselves, to an extreme which I think is sinful and has really given a bad reputation to others that identify themselves with this label of believing in patriarchy.

But why don't you define patriarchy for us to start off?

Biblical Patriarchy and Why the Term Matters

So thank you, by the way, for having me back. I felt even more impatient to see an article, a blog, that's really interesting to me because it's a hot topic right now. Biblical patriarchy, it's associated.

Many people, you say the name Doug Wilson, and the hair on the back of their neck stands up. They don't like him. I kind of got a sense for how disliked Doug Wilson is in talking to some OPC ministers.

One man who I'd never heard say a bad word about anyone, Doug Wilson was mentioned, and he immediately had a strong reaction, and I thought, okay. Doug Wilson and his denomination, the CREC, it's kind of their brand, being very strong on male headship, not just in the church but in the home and in society.

They really commend it. They teach it. They encourage it. But it's spreading, and the influence is not just with that church and that denomination, but it's a hot topic right now. But I would say the basic definition, and we need to, as we discuss this, come back to Scripture.

And if you look at the biblical account, I think you see further detail to be the front, to me, anything that is out of sync,.

The teaching of Scripture. Well, as you know, the more common way that conservative and especially Reformed congregations, fellowships, and denominations refer to their views of gender roles in the family and in the church, the more common way to describe this is complementarian.

And you have told me that you prefer the term patriarchy. You think that complementarian perhaps is a deficient way of describing proper biblical gender roles. Why don't you compare and contrast those two concepts?

As you said, I'm becoming less comfortable with that term. It's important even to take a step back from the issue of patient implications. And I think the more that I've thought about this, the more that I've true, and because it's biblical.

And the term complementarian, it just seems like a compromised position. And I think just to take a step back from this whole issue, I think part of the problem here, and I would say it's a big problem, is that we have a tendency to avoid topics, to avoid issues, or beat a dead horse, stand against homosexuality.

No, we shouldn't at all. We should. Amen. So do you see things from your experience as a pastor observing how other churches are conducting themselves, families, how they are conducting themselves as you visit these churches, as you visit homes, as you have conversations with pastors and fathers, are you seeing and hearing about things that you are finding less than biblical, deficient, problematic in the way that even those that identify themselves as complementarian are teaching about and putting into practice proper biblical gender roles?

The answer is yes. And you want strong men who are capable. I'm not saying there can't be any women involved, but you want strong men who understand the expectations that are placed upon them. So I think what I'm seeing is that one of the things that's really standing out to me is that people are going to be angry with what we have to say, because what we have to say, only by turning to Christ in faith, teaching our sons, teaching young men, good to be a man.

New Zealand, dominant.

They point out these two things. You see what goes by the wayside. Yeah, well, do you think to start with, just to give the benefit of the doubt to some people, pastors, leaders, and churches that have been very cautious about how they teach and practice the concept of proper biblical gender roles, that they do have this caution because they know of abuse that has taken place.

They know that there are perhaps women who never are given any sphere of influence and activity at all to use their gifts, even with other women. They know of marriages where husbands are tyrants and may be abusive to their wives emotionally, mentally, and even physically.

And the church is so warped in its hyper-patriarchal ideas that they do nothing to discipline the men. I mean, I could go on and on with these kinds of things. So don't we have to make it clear, extremely crystal clear, because of these things that have occurred, especially perhaps the previous generation.

But I know from hearing the testimonies of not only women but even men who would share your understanding, our understanding of gender roles, who have seen these things happen. Don't we have to make it very clear that we are not endorsing anything that even comes remotely close to that?

Yeah, no. You need men.

You need strong antidote. You know, part of the vital thing to be a female on that reality that Jesus Christ is the Son of God united to a human nature as of your wife. That's what God says in the Bible.

You're not going to find that anywhere in secular culture. That's the gospel.

So obviously, from what you've said, the way a church should make sure that they are addressing gender roles biblically and adopting a correct and biblical form of patriarchy. First and foremost, they need to study the scriptures on these things.

It would even be wise to hear what great teachers of the past and present have said about these things, although obviously nothing is inerrant other than the God-breathed scriptures. But it's foolish to ignore the great teachers that God has blessed the church with.

And then to appoint leaders in your church, appoint men in your church that are truly qualified to uphold the leadership roles to which they are appointed, that they are not appointed because they're just very brilliant or just extremely gifted orators or just a heck of a nice guy, charming and able to captivate people with their conversation and so on.

They need to be really worthy of the task that has been entrusted to them.

The church are also part of it. All the men need to be more like the women. It's about being a woman. That's why I like the title. It's good to be a man. It comes right out of Genesis 1. And that's not it at all.

But it's about commending and understanding.

Well, we have to go to our very first break right now. If anybody would like to send in a question of their own to Pastor Jeremy Brandenburg, whether you agree with what he is saying, whether you disagree, whether you're somewhere in the middle, I'd love to hear from women, too, to have their two cents added to the discussion.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are a woman and you believe yourself to have been a victim of unbalanced and unbiblical patriarchy or spousal abuse or what have you, and you don't want to draw identity to yourself.

Or you're just a person who perhaps disagrees with the leadership in your church over this issue, no matter what side you stand on. You might even be a pastor. You disagree with your fellow elders to some extent or even entirely about this issue.

There could be a host of reasons why you would want to remain anonymous if the issues are personal and private. But please, if it's just a general question, a general question on gender roles, a general question on the Bible, I urge you to give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pastor Jeremy Brandenburg of Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania on patriarchy, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Patriarchy, Complementarianism, and Biblical Gender Roles

We're now back with our guest today, Pastor Jeremy Brandenburg of Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Our theme is Patriarchy, Repression, Obsession, or the Design of God.

And we do have a listener who is a mutual friend of both Pastor Jeremy and myself. In fact, he's been a guest on this program on a number of occasions in the past. He's been a co-host with me on this program.

And he is a former colleague with Ken Ham, the world-renowned Christian young earth creationist. Charlie is the founder and director of his own ministry called Six Day Creation. And he's actually going to be my guest a week from today, August 9th, Tuesday, August 9th, to discuss a new book he has written after the very tragic loss of his son after a suicide.

So I'm urging everybody to mark their calendars for Tuesday, August 9th, to hear what Charlie has to say about a very important and rarely discussed topic, the Christian and suicide. And we're looking forward to having Charlie on.

And I'm thankful and grateful to him for being willing to discuss openly on a radio program such a very private and intimate and painful subject. But Charlie asks,.

It was the Book of Judges. Dane Deacons, and then what? I just think it's not. This is the apostolic preparation for my sermon on Sunday referred to it. This is our church constitution as a whole, small c, Catholic.

This is to believe this. Well, if your church believes the Bible, every church, every Christian church should have women, godly older women, teaching younger. To see in my church is more men involved in the Sunday school program because, you know, young men.

And folks, I want to give you Charlie's website for his ministry. It's sixdaycreation .com and the word six is spelled out. It's not the number. It's S-I-X, sixdaycreation .com. Quick humorous story.

I don't know if you heard this story, Pastor Jeremy, but I was at an event where Charlie was the keynote speaker and I was sitting at the banquet table with his lovely wife, Terry, and I leaned over to Terry and I said, Hey, Terry, did you know that Charlie and I went to the same high school in Amityville, Long Island, New York?

And she said, Oh, did you graduate together? And Charlie's about 20 years older than I am.

Yeah, I hold it against you.

And looking forward to the interview, Charlie. One thing to say about that, the way that Charlie worded it, I think we have to be somewhat careful, and you did include this in your answer to a degree, but when he says, Can women be deacons in a Bible-believing church?

There is a church whose pastor I consider to be one of my greatest living heroes of the faith, John MacArthur, and although I don't agree with everything that John MacArthur believes and teaches and everything that Grace Community Church and Sun Valley California practices, they are dispensationalists, but I think that that is really not the primary thrust of John MacArthur or his church.

They share the treasure, just as I do, the precious doctrines of sovereign grace and many other things. They have deaconesses, but they view that role as not being an office of the church. They don't believe that those women have any authority over men in any way, shape, or form, nor did they ever teach men.

So I just wanted to make that clarification that I think that you could be a Bible-believing church and an error on something. And I just thought I'd throw that in there. We have to go to our midway break right now.

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Also, send in your questions to Pastor Jeremy Brandenburg on Patriarchy, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pastor Jeremy Brandenburg right after these messages.

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course the end from which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshipping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin. Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org. This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord, God, Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations. A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.