Doug Wilson: Full Preterism, Historical Christianity, 1 Cor. 15, Orthodoxy vs Heresy @blogmablog4870

There is a climactic moment. There's a last chapter where we all turn around and look at the book of human history. And we say that was the best story ever. Right, but there. With the full predator's view of human history.

It's not a story at all. It's just one damn thing after another.

The Gospel, the Right Jesus, and Ministry Announcements

Hello, and welcome to the apologetic dog where it's our heart's desire to contend for the gospel of grace. So within the logo of the apologetic dog you see first Timothy 620 where Paul is telling Christians To all be apologetic dogs to guard the deposit that's been entrusted to you.

So one way to really help the ministry of the apologetic dog is to like subscribe and share this content. That really helps this content just circulate allow more people to Start engaging with this material and understanding who the right Jesus is that he is the sovereign King and Lord.

Overall, and he's the second person of the Godhead and scripture tells us you must not only believe in the right Jesus But you must receive the right Jesus on the terms that he prescribed which is by faith apart from work.

So if you would if you're able to show support for the ministry by liking and subscribing and sharing the content you can also help with Becoming a patreon that frees up more of my time to be able to contend for the gospel in these Apologetic endeavors.

So thank you for joining me. I just want to give some quick announcements. Coming up in February. I will be speaking at a conference that Jeffrey Rice it will be hosting and has invited me and dr Sam Frost to speak about the dangers of full preterism.

And so this is important because people have questions and I think it's so good to be able to point back to our Creed's and confessions to show that our rich historic faith has fundamentally denied The fact that our blessed hope is in our past but it's something that we long for in our future.

And so dr. Frost and I will be talking about Probably a number of different things. So that is coming up in February so mark that on your calendars if you're in the Tennessee area and that you would love to join because That's just the pre-conference.

Soon after the pre-conference will be the rest of the conference that is discussing a why Calvinism which is important conversation to be had about God is sovereign and you are not and so what that looks like and so Those are some things coming your way.

Eschatology Matters and the Guest Introduction

And so speaking of eschatology We're gonna be getting in that today as well because eschatology matters I love the guys out on that YouTube channel eschatology matters Brandon wood Josh Howard's and Tim Bashong.

Thank you men for contending for the faith and telling people your view of the end times Directly impact how we live here and now and so today we have a special guest with us Pastor Doug Wilson. How are you, sir?

Doing great.

Pastor Doug. Thank you for taking your time to just meet with me today to talk about some interesting Very important matters of the faith. And so before we do that, is there Anything you would like to tell the audience about where they can find you some of the work that you've been.

Maybe writing some new books lately things like that.

Yeah.

We set up my blog is called blog and may blog and the address is Doug wills all lowercase Doug wills comm and We set it up such that if you look at the front page Scroll down a bit. You can there's a portal to pretty much everything.

I'm involved with Logos school new st. Andrews the church everything. So that's the one stop Shopping spot.

Awesome, well. Well, we don't know each other, but I'm from Jonesboro, Arkansas. So I'm in the Deep South so you may hear that accent going on. So that's where that's coming from.

I.

Like your beard by the way, well, thank you. It's more seasoned than mine. So I hope to grow into a beard like that one day, right? You don't want to get a white beard too quickly. Yes, sir, so in Arkansas There have been Two churches that have been openly preaching full preterism.

And so it's just been something kind of weird that I've had to address. I serve as a pastor and elder at twelve five church church plant pastor Doug's will keep us in prayer. We just completed three years and it has been amazing.

And so a lot of people come to me with apologetic questions. And so full preterism has kind of been on the rise in Arkansas, and it's been so strange. And so I just want to thank you for the work that you've done and you're no stranger to the world of eschatology.

You wrote a book on it. I did you recognize this one. I do.

Yes, wrote that one. I also did a commentary on the book of Revelation. That is.

The overlaps. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just want to encourage people to go check out your work and material. I also want to thank you for teaming up with the guys at eschatology matters Brandon wood and Josh Howard and Tim Bashong.

Great guys, I actually was. Just a few weeks ago spoke at a conference with them in Indiana and so I was asked to preach on the resurrection of the dead and so I knew I need to call in Doug Wilson. Just to get just to have you weigh in on some of these things because what I immediately start pointing people to.

Is.

The the heresy of hominidus and felidus and so. This is something the scripture speaks explicitly about. And Before we dive into this passage of scripture that talks about the resurrection of the dead how this is attached to our blessed Hope and the timing of Jesus's second coming.

I wanted to get your thoughts on this real fast, too. Because you've done a lot of work talking about how full preterism is not just a difference of opinion of eschatology. But it's a completely different world view.

And so what I've started to notice is in order for I believe one of your videos said all 14 full preterist out there. In order for them to survive they have to be parasitic. They have to say well. We're just disagreeing on tertiary matters.

You can still welcome us into the fold. And so that's been so much of the problem here in Jonesboro, Arkansas as you have these full preterist. Saying that they're Christians and so people kind of Unawares understand that they're kind of coming in and just want to welcome them with open arms.

And so I kind of have that hard task of saying no. No, this is a different Christ. Maybe we can talk about this. This is a different gospel a different blessed Hope and so do you think that's a fair characterization of what they have to do in order to stay alive essentially?

Full Preterism and the Historic Christian Hope

Yes, I think that's fair I don't want to say that everybody who embraces who gets to the point where he says I'm a full preterist. Then he's not necessarily unsaved. Sometimes people sometimes save people get pretty seriously muddled and I think that that happens with some.

But I do believe that full preterism as a system articulated understood defined and promulgated is Not the Christian faith it it it unravels the whole thing and the there are a number of ways to come at this but the Christian Church has been divided on matters of eschatology from from early days the first centuries.

But the one the one thing that Orthodox Christians have always agreed on Eschatologically has been that full preterism is wrong.

But.

That's the only thing that's the only thing that we've agreed on because the the Apostles Creed Which goes back very early? We believe that Jesus Christ is going to come again to judge the quick and the dead.

So this confession that human history has a terminus human history has an end point at which Christ comes and the and the dead are raised. That is inconsistent with full preterism and the Orthodox Christian Church for 2 ,000 years has Always confessed that and that's the one thing that we agree on which is that full preterism is wrong.

I and I would argue that this is not simply I just said 2 ,000 years. But I think it's much older than that because when Jesus is talking with Martha After Lazarus dies She's a faithful Jewish woman first century.

She doesn't have Thessalonians in her possession. She doesn't have the book of Revelation in her possession and She says to Jesus. I know he will be raised at the last day. Speaking of Lazarus So a belief in the final resurrection of the dead at the last day was something that faithful Jews Like Martha were confessing before there was a New Testament so this so this goes all this goes way back and when you when you look at the error of Hymenaeus and Philetus You're and and Paul comes off the top ropes when he's dealing with them, right?

He says they're they're making a hash of everything. When he says that if if you adopted the full Preterist view and Paul is writing this near the end of his life. These are in the pastoral his pastoral letters near the end of his life.

And if you believe that everything was fulfilled by 70 AD. You have to you have to be saying that Paul is coming off the top ropes calling their teaching Gangrenous and ungodly Upsetting the faith and he's saying this because they were a few months off in their calculation.

Right.

Pastor Doug, do you care if I read that passage real fast and we can begin to come back this. Because the Apostle Paul's talking Timothy and warning him about false teachers, right? And and he already addressed One of these gentlemen in the the first letter so here in verse 16 of 1st Timothy chapter 2 He says to Timothy.

But avoid irreverent babble for it. It will lead people into more and more ungodliness and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are hominid yes, and Philetus who have swerved from the truth saying that the Resurrection already happened.

They are upsetting the faith of some so that's that's pretty heavy Language here and pastor Doug. I've been interacting with full Preterist and it's so interesting because they want to say well Look, the only thing that Paul is addressing is the timing not the nature.

So of course Paul and and these two individuals must be in agreement on the nature of the resurrection. What's your first thoughts when you hear something like that?

Then if the only disagreement is timing then you have to answer my my question. Why is Paul so upset over? Them being a few months off where he's come. He's coming at them for introducing a gangrenous teaching that's going to introduce ungodliness and Why because they say the resurrection happened in 62 ad instead of 70 ad.

Are you serious?

Pastor Doug you got you got to understand that the temple was still up. It hadn't been destroyed yet, and they were still under the law. So by hominid and Philetus by them saying the resurrection already happened.

What they're really doing is saying that the law is still going to be this yoke of bondage. And the temple can stay as is so somehow. Pastor Doug. Those are two determining factors that are in the the backside of Hymenaeus and Philetus his mind that totally just undo Christianity.

That's what I get a lot of times that the temple is relevant in this conversation and they're still under the law.

The problem is that Paul doesn't mention the temple or the law. He mentioned mentions the resurrection. He's he says my problem with what these guys are saying is what they're saying about the resurrection.

Right. He doesn't say. He doesn't say anything about the law and Paul. Paul is more than capable of handling Judaizers who he Addresses that in Galatians. He addresses that in Colossians. He knows how to end Romans.

He knows how to attack people who are Promulgating Illegalistic Judaism or who want he any he says this is what you're doing. You're. He talks about their problems with the law by using nouns like law.

Right.

Here not here about the resurrection, right. And so the the main feature here is the timing and so everyone has to interpret what all else is going on. But what he is purely addressing is to say that the timing of the resurrection and so these false teachers would have been familiar with what the the Hebrew Scriptures would have Talked about like in Daniel 12 about the resurrection of the dead right.

This is something that all saints have have in the back of their mind when it when we talk about eschatology and so He only focuses in on Paul only sees it necessary here to focus on the timing. And so if someone is teaching that the resurrection of the dead has already happened when it hasn't it's anathema language.

It's it's poisonous. It's cancerous. And he said he uses the term swerved from the truth right. Makeshift wreck of the faith essentially and so that's yeah.

Exactly because if if you take the The position that the Orthodox Christian position maintains which is that the general resurrection of the dead happens at the conclusion of human history as Opposed to someone who says the general resurrection Happens in the middle of human history That's a difference and it's but it's a difference over the meaning of history.

It's it's it's not a difference if it's just a few months apart if Paul says no Hymen is has always a hot been a hothead. He's jumping the gun. It's not going to happen for another five years. Okay, that's that's not a dispute about the meaning of history because when you're if you have a dispute about the meaning of history It's a dispute about the meaning of life and then the meaning of the new life and the meaning of the gospel.

You this is one of those things where It's in one of my blog posts on this I said it's like theological Jenga where you're pulling out this thing at the bottom of This of the stack of blocks and you think it's just one block.

I'm just pulling this out, but the whole the whole edifice rests upon this as Paul's language indicates, right?

Yeah, I play Jenga. You want to be careful not to go straight to the bottom. Well. The big point that I want to stress here like like you're bringing out is the timing here. Paul's is addressing here there's other scripture that we'll get into here in a moment about the nature of the resurrection and so pastor Doug in Jonesboro a lot of people really look up to you and your content and I was real excited to be able to have you on because These full preterists you probably are aware of this, but they will grab your content and other.

You know men of the faith that we look up to and so they're trying to infuse themselves in To orthodoxy, right? And so I just want to let you know that your labors haven't been in vain. In fact, it's reaching us here in the Deep South.

Just you know the the cautions the dangers that are attached to full preterism and so I just wanted to thank you again for that and I've actually had a few incredible platforms to speak to other pastors in our local area of saying Jeremiah.

What is full preterism and why is it? Why is it bad? Why is it dangerous? And so I've been able to warn kind of sound that that bullhorn and I've been able to connect with other men that I believe you're familiar with.

Dr. Sam Frost. I've had him on a number of times. To really Get his insights because you know He was a big leader in this movement for about a decade and has come out of it and wrote many books. Which I think you're familiar with some of his writings.

Yeah, I read his why.

Why left. Full preterism was a very very good book. Oh.

Yeah, definitely want to recommend the audience to go check out that book as well. And even you'll you'll appreciate this even our homeschool groups here in our local area I've been able to speak to Board of Directors and just explain to them all the dangers of how this Redefines our blessed hope enough and it what's interesting is when people Intuitively when they hear that everything is already fulfilled that's prophesied and terminated in 70 AD in our past.

Most people are like are you serious? The second coming already happened the resurrection of the dead happened and the new heavens a new earth is already and no not yet. Most people Intuitively think that's kind of wild and I remind them.

Yeah, this is only about 30 years on the scene. I mean, that's why you rightly in the past said there's only about 14 of them, right? Right and so Keep us in prayer here in the Deep South because we're constantly having to fight these battles.

And so it's just interesting when you're able to sit down and open up 2nd Timothy chapter 2 you can talk about Paul saw it necessary to talk about things like the timing because this has you know Embedded in it all of history connected to it, right?

And so the resurrection already happened then our blessed I hope is not future but it's it's realized and so I I do want to get your thoughts here on the nature of the Resurrection and so I feel like one of the best places and we can go to some other scriptures if you have in mind but first Corinthians 15 is a chapter where Paul Addresses that very topic.

1 Corinthians 15, the Firstfruits, and Bodily Resurrection

And so when I'm talking with full preterists that say, oh, well, let's just assume that hominidus and philetus Are in agreement with Paul on the nature of the resurrection. And so one of the points I immediately go to pastor Doug is well, that's not what he's addressing there.

But we have other passages of scripture where that's exactly what is in question. So do you have any thoughts before we dive into some of what Paul said in 1st Corinthians 15?

Yeah, I would I would want to frame it this way because in 1st Corinthians 15 Paul Draws a straight line link between Christ's resurrection and ours. Right, so when we talk scripturally the nature of Christ's resurrection is the same as ours and If you go with the full preterist understanding it has to go the other way.

Right. So the nature of our resurrection would be the nature of Christ's. Now what that means is let's say a brother a Christian calling Demetrius died in 69 AD. Okay, he died and was buried and then we come back in 71 AD.

After the culmination of all things after the resurrection has already happened.

Or.

Let's put it right before Whatever date Hymenaeus and Philetus. Put it right. Can we come back to that grave and find the body? Okay, now if we can come back to if someone died before their resurrection and we come back a year after and Go dig the dig the body up.

Is there a body that can be dug up? Now if that's the case, you know, if you say well the full preterist says you die and you receive your new body in heaven and Your your body is in the coffin still.

Well, here's my question. Could we do that with Jesus? All right, if our All right, our resurrection is Paul says in first Corinthians 15 Christ's resurrection is the first fruits. It's the it's the down payment.

It's the earnest that what happened to him is going to happen to us. Therefore what you're claiming happens to us is what you're claiming happened to him. Right now right that that means if you you could say with a straight face Christ was raised and his body is still in the.

Grave.

You're just a theological liberal. That's that's. And. And the Apostle Paul says our faith is vain we're still in our sins. This is all a big bunch of nothing.

Right, well, I appreciate you kind of setting that up because as we're gonna look at this passage now, I believe this passage Versus 20 and following kind of we'll kind of stop at verse 26. But this was also I believe I heard you say a passage that led you out of dispensationalism, right?

But or at least the the pre-millennial dispensational because we look at what the end is talking about with Paul. And it's the the parousia and the resurrection of the dead. And so I think that's interesting that this passage does seem to kind of lend itself away from dispensationalism.

And in my opinion is the death knell to hyper pretorism and so I'd like to look at this passage and get your thoughts on it because it does talk about such a tight unity of What what it meant when Jesus was resurrected from the dead what that?

Told us as Christians what happened to us one day as well and surely we'll be restored to new life now, right? Spiritually, this is eternal life that we know the true God and Jesus Christ to me sent. But there's something we still long for and look look forward to that that bodily aspect of what it means to be Human, so first Corinthians 15 20.

There's a Wonderful context here that Paul has been talking about in verse 20 He says but in fact Christ has been raised from the dead the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death by a man has also come the resurrection of the dead for as an Adam all dies.

So also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order Christ the firstfruits then at his coming Those who belong to Christ then comes the end when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying Every rule and every authority and power and then the postmillennial say for he must reign until he has put all of his Enemies under his feet the last enemy to be destroyed is death.

I gave your your post more crowd a plug there. But the reason why I kind of stop it at verse 26 is because what is death, right? I've noticed this is important when we're talking about the resurrection of the dead.

Jesus died. What does the phrase Fallen asleep mean all these in my opinion pastor Doug are Connected to the buildup that Paul is getting with when he says than a toss right death and so I think you have to conclude consistent with what Paul is arguing here is this is talking about a Physical death the the termination termination of physical life.

So what are your immediate thoughts?

Absolutely, and in the full preterist vision human history just goes on and on and on and on. Sin is never completely destroyed. Death is never completely destroyed. And yet here in first Corinthians The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Doesn't that mean it will be destroyed?

So they have to say this is a spiritual death, right.

Exactly, but then it unravels backwards. Why would the first fruits of the harvest? Be completely unlike the harvest. Right, why why how can we insist on the bodily resurrection of Christ? He comes out of the grave.

The tomb is empty and His body that went in the grave is transformed. That's the that's the reality and that's the first fruits. Well in verse 23 here each in his own order Christ the first fruits, whatever the nature of that is.

It applies to what follows. So the first fruits of the harvest is the same as the harvest. Christ the first fruits then at his coming those who belong to Christ and that means the people who are who are raised at Christ's coming are Participating in the same kind of bodily resurrection from the grave that Christ experienced.

Yes, that that kind of gets into the discussion later in first Corinthians 15. They they continue to talk about the the nature so I believe it's around verse 35. Maybe I can get you to weigh in on this as well.

But someone will ask how are the dead raised with what kind of body do they come? And so as I was studying this Paul was kind of mad at the just the nature of the question itself. Because it seems like it's being asked in a mocking tone.

Like that just seems impossible for a physical resurrection to even take place and Paul is just saying look. You already believed in Jesus's resurrection, which you received by faith. And so, you know Resurrection is not only possible, but it's a reality.

And so when he says in verse 36 you foolish person It seems like he is saying it's unthinkable pastor Doug for Christians to deny a future Bodily resurrection for believers as our blessed hope. And so, you know kind of the rest of the passage Paul gives many Illustrations about how this is necessary a seed has to die in order for it to be raised and transformed, right?

Right. So this this Adam sin-cursed body. Guess what is going to die?

Physically, right and.

When it dies and goes in the ground it does so looking at verse 37 there. It does so as a bear kernel. Right, so. But according to the full preterist the body that goes in the ground is not a kernel at all.

It's not a seed at all. It just goes in the ground and rots and you get your new body in heaven. You don't plant a seed in one place so that the plant will grow in another place.

Right.

The the the women who Witnessed Christ's resurrection met him at the place where he was buried they went to the garden where he had been buried. The angels appeared where he had been buried. And if our Death and burial is going to be like his that means the crop is going to come Where we were planted.

Now, this is something when when Paul's preaching to the Sophisticates of at Mars Hill in Acts 17, they listened to him up until the resurrection part and Then and then they said oh, this is just this is outlandish.

There's something about the resurrection of the dead that is offensive to the the person who wants to be Intellectually sophisticated it seems child. It seems childish. It seems very Simplistic and you know, you mean to say it the the Greeks Socrates believed in the immortality of the soul.

That's that's something you can believe and be sophisticated. But if you believe that your body is going to come out of the dirt.

Right.

That seems like Good great good grief, but here this is one of my favorite points. I'd like to intrude here and it's not really an intrusion. It goes with this the the. The atheist materialist likes to make fun of the Christian for saying that God formed Adam out of dirt.

Right, that is oh, come on Human you're using. The human beings were created out of dirt by God and I'd say well you believe the same thing. Only you leave out the God part. We've we've got men and we've got dirt.

Right.

You've got dirt primordial goo that we evolved out of and we have dirt that God superintended in fashion man out of but both of us believe that Organic matter came from inorganic matter and then you think that Christians are absurd.

Because we think it's going to happen again. Right, we believe we believe that I'm gonna die my body's gonna be dead. It's gonna go in the ground and then it's gonna be raised again, but that's not the first time right, I.

If I when I'm raised from that when I'm raised from the dead, I will come into a new existence. Just like I did in 1953 only it'll be much much better. Won't be it won't be corruptible won't be dishonorable.

Won't be you know. It won't be all the things that Paul lists in first Corinthians 15, but the living life from nothing life from death. That's something that happens and everybody everybody acknowledges it.

Death, Adam, and the Nature of Resurrection

Yeah, well.

Something I wanted to also touch back on because you mentioned Adam because I get how the atheist worldview They read the account of Genesis and it's absurd to them. It might usually Retort back is just saying look I Would rather look at the eyewitness testimony the one who was there and gets to tell me truth.

That's that's a worldview is the God of truth gets to reveal to us What the truth is not just my speculation and assumptions on you know given sets of patterns that I don't know always have consisted the same way and Pastor Doug a couple weeks ago.

I got to preach on this passage first Corinthians 15 20 through 26. And so I began by saying look look what Paul is emphatically saying, but in fact Christ has been raised from the dead. Paul only gets the benefit of declaring This is truth.

In fact because the Word of God said it would happen. So what's interesting is Paul goes on here to talk about Adam, right? For as in Adam all die and so one objection pastor Doug that gets thrown back at me as well when we go back to Genesis chapter 2 God said the day that you sinned and eat the the tree of knowledge of good and evil then you will surely die and Their response is well Adam didn't die physically that day.

So this must be a spiritual truth. And so I say well keep reading right because essentially Adam and Eve sinned and we see consequences of the fall and a part of that was man. Returning to dust. Oh that sounds like the best definition of death we could see in Scripture that God used the dust of the ground to form.

Adam breathed into him the breath of life and it was As a result of sin Man is going to return back to dust. So is that a good take on on saying well There's more going on. Then simply Adam not physically dying that day and I even go as far as say he should have.

But a substitute was made. God took animal skins animal physical death had to happen on Adam and Eve's behalf. So that just proves that Adam and Eve should have died. But God but God was merciful gracious loving we get to see kind of more of God's character put on display.

That's I agree. I would say amen to everything you just said and I would add a couple of a couple of additional Things. The first thing is that I define death not as cessation but as.

Separation.

So.

The day that Adam Ate of the fruit. He was separated from fellowship with God who was his life. Okay, so and you can see that when they heard the Lord walking in the cool of the day Coming down to walk in the garden.

They hid they were separated from him.

And.

So there was a there was a covenantal death that happened right away because of the separation of the severing of fellowship. Physical death is the separation of the soul and body. Okay. Now the physical death that they went through years later Happened because of the separation of fellowship with God.

In other words, it was a cascading set of deaths. There was an immediate covenantal death. Separation from God if they had been killed on the spot. There would have been no injustice done right if they'd been physically killed.

And the reason they weren't physically killed It's because God is merciful. But God is not merciful. Just okay. I think I'm feeling Kind today. As you pointed out there were there were animals that were killed by God and Adam and Eve were covered by God's mercy, but but that mercy Ameliorated the death.

It did not. It did not indicate that God changed his mind about the death. The day you eat of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden you shall surely die. Ezekiel says the soul that sin shall die.

Paul says in Romans the wages of sin is death but you can have death without Ceasing to be so in Ephesians 2. We were all by nature objects of wrath and we were dead in our transgressions and sins In which we used to walk.

So you've in Ephesians chapter 2 you have people walking around in death. They don't cease to be but they're in a state of death. Which Adam and Eve were the moment they ate from the fruit of the tree?

Covenant Death, Separation, and the Fall

Yeah, so there's layers to this because you know, you mentioned kind of a covenantal relationship with Adam and God and so this is where the full preterist is. Yeah, it's covenantal death. Everything is covenantal and from my estimation it's actually built on a type of dispensational hermeneutic because when they are talking about a Covenantal Adamic death they are referring to the ethnic people of Israel, right?

They're not looking at the deeper principles of who the true Israel is. And so I loved what you said death is more separation, right? Alienation as Calvin put it and so there's a lot going on in the garden and so may the whole man at least is Dichotomous, right?

He has a physical element made from the dust of the ground and there's that spiritual element. And this is inextricably linked together. And so when I read Genesis 1 2 3 Death would be touching all of who man is and so is that another good way of just kind of expounding on death?

You can't separate it to merely be just spiritual or just physical, but it's also Covenantal and touches both features of what man is.

Correct. Absolutely. It touches everything we are and it touches everything we touch. And if someone says yes Yes covenant. It's not a physical death because they didn't die that day. I'd say okay. Let's come always come back to Jesus when he came from the dead.

Was that a covenantal resurrection or When Mary Magdalene came up and touched him. What what was she doing? Well, what was happening? It was real.

And so that's kind of Paul's whole beginning argument in this great resurrection chapter. He begins with. The resurrection of Jesus his suffering his death his resurrection that was according to the Scriptures.

This is Christianity 101 and I believe he's saying don't don't forget that right? This was all according to the Scriptures and now some of you are beginning to doubt that Resurrection is possible. And so he points to Jesus as the principle as the rule and as the paradigm, right?

And so yes the paradigm and the biblical word for that paradigm would be first fruits because he uses it in verse 20 and he uses it in verse 23 and. Thus if the if the first fruits is wheat the harvest is going to be wheat.

If the first fruits is the bodily resurrection from a grave. Then that's what the harvest is.

Hmm.

What are your initial thoughts? I've heard this objection. I kind of laugh because I know what I say initially. But Jeremiah the resurrection the dead the first fruits are talking about Old Testament Israel, so this is kind of a corporate body.

Covenantal resurrection. This isn't necessarily for Christians.