February 7, 2022 Show with Dr. Thomas J. Nettles on “Charles Haddon Spurgeon: The Theologian”

Iron Sharpens Iron

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:05

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, in downtown

00:10

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

00:23

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

00:31

Proverbs chapter 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

00:38

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

00:50

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

01:00

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

01:10

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

01:21

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this seventh day of February 2022, and I am so thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest, an old friend who

01:37

I've interviewed a number of times, a man whose writings I have benefited greatly from and I know that many in our audience have as well.

01:47

His name is Dr. Thomas J. Nettles, retired from full -time teaching after 38 years in the classroom, including his most recent post as professor of historical theology at the

02:00

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary from 1997 to 2014, previously having spent 21 years at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Mid -American

02:12

Baptist Theological Seminary, and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, where he was professor of church history and chair of the

02:20

Department of Church History, and author and editor of a number of books, along with numerous journal articles and scholarly papers.

02:29

Today, Dr. Nettles will be addressing Charles Haddon Spurgeon, the theologian, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

02:39

Tom Nettles. Thank you very much, Chris. It's a delight to be here and thank you for allowing me to talk a little bit about Spurgeon, one of the great preachers and one of the great theologians of evangelicalism.

02:53

Amen. Amen. And the last time I saw you, if I'm not mistaken, is when I was online at the men's room at the

03:01

Foundations Conference in New York City, and I heard, is that Chris Arnson? And that was you walking out of the bathroom.

03:10

Yes, I remember our personal meeting there. Well, Dr.

03:18

Nettles, you and I know that Spurgeon is a greatly beloved hero from history, and the real historical

03:30

Charles Haddon Spurgeon is a great beloved hero of history by many, but he's also, or should

03:38

I say the fictitious version of Charles Haddon Spurgeon, is also a hero of many that are anti -Calvinist and have either in ignorance decalvinized

03:52

Spurgeon and have taught that he was either theologically and intentionally not a

04:01

Calvinist or that he naively violated the tenets of Calvinism and preached and evangelized to everyone with urgency, which they wrongly believe, these anti -Calvinists wrongly believe, that that would make one a non -Calvinist, to have a passion for the lost, etc.

04:26

Yes, there may be Calvinists who have no passion for the lost, who may even be lost themselves, but there are also

04:33

Arminians in that category, whether it is because of laziness or whatever the circumstances, a fear of being humiliated in public by identifying themselves as Christians, or whatever the case may be, there are people on both sides of the theological fence, whether a

04:56

Calvinist or Arminian, who very rarely involve themselves in evangelism, but being a passionate evangelist does not in any way, shape, or form negate one's firm commitment to the doctrines of sovereign grace,

05:11

Reformed theology, and also called Calvinism, am I right? Yes, absolutely, and Spurgeon believed that and practiced that.

05:19

His evangelistic zeal was not in any sense a compromise of his firm adherence to the doctrines of grace, and his particular understanding of the doctrines of grace and their implications did not compromise, did not diminish the zeal that he knew he must have for preaching the gospel with a view to seeing people converted.

05:48

This is even in the most uncompromisingly Calvinistic sermons, where he would be preaching even on effectual atonement, that Christ has died for his elect only, those who are in the eternal covenant before the foundation of the world.

06:05

He has died for it in such a way as they infallibly will come to salvation, and no others will.

06:12

Nevertheless, he has very pertinent, appropriate, and zealous calls for the unconverted that are hearing him to turn to Christ with the certainty that if Christ has died for them, he will hear them, and they will be saved.

06:32

And there's, in his mind, and I think in reality, in the way he constructs his sermons on those issues, there's not any compromise.

06:41

I think that this is due basically to, well, several things, but there are three that I sort of isolate in my mind.

06:47

And one is that the, just as surely as God has secured the salvation of the elect through the covenant of redemption, so he secures their salvation through the means that are to be used.

07:05

And of course, the primary means is the incarnation and the death of Christ. If people could be saved solely by a decree of election, then

07:13

Christ would not have needed to come. But because Christ has come, that shows the absolute necessity of the use of means to accomplish the eternal decree.

07:25

And then connected with those means are the preaching of the gospel by the minister of the gospel, his efforts to convince people of the truth of the gospel, his clear explanations of what the gospel is and how it is dependent upon the completed work of Christ that is to be received by faith, and then the means of the

07:49

Holy Spirit to change the heart and bring a person to faith. So the use of means he sees preaching the gospel and an urgency about faith to be a thoroughly consistent with that whole fabric of means that God uses to bring his elect to himself.

08:08

So he saw his preaching as something that was a vital part of the way

08:13

God called the elect and his own passion for them to be consistent both with the passion of Christ himself,

08:23

I mean his internal desire for the salvation of the elect, which led then to his true suffering passion for them.

08:33

So Christ had a yearning for lost people. The apostle

08:38

Paul, from whose writings we develop the most complete picture of God's sovereignty in bringing people to salvation, gave his life to the preaching of the gospel to the lost with the confidence that God would call.

08:55

He says, I endure all things for the sake of the elect that they too may obtain salvation and with it eternal glory.

09:04

So Spurgeon saw that whole fabric of motivation as something that warranted the evangelistic zeal that he had, along with the uncompromising and clear presentation of the doctrines of grace.

09:21

Yes, if anybody wants to get a clear picture of how thoroughly

09:28

Calvinistic Spurgeon was, unashamedly, unabashedly Calvinistic, I recommend a booklet that is published by Chapel Library.

09:40

The website is chapellibrary .org and they have a little booklet called A Defense of Calvinism which, if I am not mistaken, is an excerpt, a brief excerpt from Spurgeon's autobiography, which

09:55

I happen to be blessed to own the first edition four -volume set of that autobiography.

10:03

That was a gift to me, that four -volume set, and when I think about it, my mind is still blown away by this, but it was a gift to me by my late wife

10:14

Julie's co -pastor before we were married, Andy Montoro, and I am forever in Andy's debt for that wonderful gift, which was actually originally owned by an

10:28

Episcopalian minister who passed away. His family was getting rid of his library as if it was garbage, and they just wanted people to come and haul all the stuff away, and I can only wonder what was in that library.

10:43

I wasn't there. But that was one of the things, that four -volume set that was there, and Andy gave that to me as a gift, and I'm still blown away.

10:52

But one of the things that Spurgeon says in that booklet, and I am remembering this without having it in front of me, so I am not giving an exact quote, but he was so,

11:09

Spurgeon was so repulsed by the notion, the teaching of a

11:15

God who would punish people in hell when his son, his perfect righteous son, had allegedly already paid for their sins on Calvary.

11:28

He found that to be monstrous and equated that understanding of God to the gods of the pagans and thugs, and he listed some other colorful false deities in that quote.

11:42

But it's interesting how he had such a revulsion to unlimited atonement, and yet still held in high regard many

11:53

Arminian theologians and Christians. Yeah, he saw the central core of the doctrine of the

12:01

Trinity, the necessity of the death of Christ, the reality of faith in Christ, the zeal of preaching

12:11

Christ and Him crucified in many of those who were not Calvinists. He saw that as admirable, he believed they were inconsistent, and there were points in their theology that he did see as monstrous.

12:23

But when they stayed on the central themes of Christ and Him crucified and the necessity of faith in Him, he felt himself at one with them and was quite, sensed his fraternity with them in Christ.

12:44

Now, Spurgeon, I think one of the good reasons we are focusing on Spurgeon the theologian is because some who perhaps consider themselves more

13:02

Ivy League, the elite of academia and scholarship within the professed

13:15

Christian faith, they may look at Spurgeon as more of just a

13:21

English country preacher and evangelist. And although he has contributed much of value to the body of Christ through his written sermons that still exist today, they hesitate to highly regard him as a theologian.

13:39

But this is coming from arrogance and ignorance of Spurgeon.

13:45

He, although not formally trained, was really a brilliant man, wasn't he? Well, yeah, he was brilliant.

13:52

He was not formally trained, but he was self -trained and he read so much material, so much theological material that his education was perhaps even superior to many who had been to university.

14:07

There is hardly any Puritan that he did not read and of the works of which he did not own.

14:13

And more than any person I've ever read, Chris, he is able to characterize the peculiarities of the

14:20

Puritans, the things on which they're strong, the kind of vocabulary they use. There are some paragraphs in his messages or in articles that he writes in the

14:29

Sword and Trowel. Well, he will go and he will be talking about, oh, seven or eight different Puritans and the specific emphases they have on certain aspects, like of sanctification.

14:41

He may talk about so -and -so is good on this and someone else is good on this and someone else is good on this.

14:47

And he just lists all of them and has these characterizations. So he knew in detail the

14:52

Puritans. He kept up with contemporary literature in the Sword and Trowel, which began in 1865.

15:00

There were 30 to 40 book reviews, very short, but nevertheless substantial book reviews in the

15:07

Sword and Trowel. And most of those Spurgeon himself did. He was constantly reading.

15:14

And he had a foundation that he had gained just as a child when he lived with his grandfather.

15:21

He went into the study that was a part of the manse there at Stambourne where his grandfather was pastor.

15:30

And there was a full Puritan library there. And he remembers going in there and even before he could read, looking at the pictures of Pilgrim's Progress.

15:39

And then later when he learned to read, he would spend hours in there reading the Puritans from the time that he was in the single digits of age.

15:48

And so there's no lack of education. It's just that it was not in a formal situation. But his mind, the way he was able to retain things in his mind was quite remarkable.

16:01

I mean, he was a pastor when he was 16, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah. He was a pastor when he was 16.

16:07

He went to London then when he was still 19. He began publishing his sermons when he was 21 in 1855.

16:16

And from then until actually until World War I diminished the amount of paper that people could use for things.

16:28

There was this continued publishing of the Metropolitan Tabernacle pulpit. But in the very first sermon, the very first sermon that he published, it was called

16:38

The Immutability of God. And in this sermon, he says the entire course of his preaching, he said,

16:48

It has been said by someone that the proper study of mankind is man. I will not oppose the idea, but I believe it is equally true that the proper study of God's elect is

16:57

God. The proper study of a Christian is the Godhead. The highest science, the loftiest speculation, the mightiest philosophy which could ever engage the attention of a child of God is the name, the nature, the person, the work, the doings, and the existence of the great

17:14

God whom he calls his Father. So that is how he introduced his ministry in that 1855.

17:23

Later, he said, again, after all, the most excellent study for expanding the soul is the science of Christ and him crucified.

17:34

And the knowledge of the Godhead is the glorious trinity. Nothing will so enlarge the intellect, nothing so magnify the whole soul of man as a devout, earnest, continued investigation of the great subject of the deity.

17:50

So that was his passion. That was his statement at the beginning of that 1855 volume, and that is what characterized his life.

18:02

Now, I saw recently a documentary on Spurgeon, and it looked very faithful to the historical facts, but there were a couple of things in there that I know were in contradiction to what other

18:19

Spurgeon experts, scholars, people who are historians with a focus on Spurgeon have said.

18:28

So it made me wonder how much of the documentary was accurate. But one of the things that the documentary said is that Spurgeon wanted to be formally educated and wanted to receive a seminary degree, not for the sake of getting a degree, but just to take advantage of the learning that would be available.

18:52

And the documentary said that in the 19th century that the

18:57

Church of England did not permit non -members of the Church of England to attend seminary.

19:03

I was surprised by that, and is that accurate? Yeah. Yeah, that's accurate. But he was going to go.

19:09

There was a Baptist college that he was going to attend, and he actually had an appointment with the man who was the principal of the college.

19:20

And he went to the place that was appointed, and the girl who was sort of the receptionist for this large house, when

19:30

Spurgeon came, she put him in one room, and then when Joseph Angus came, the man that was the principal of the college, she put him in another room and never told either one of them that the other were there.

19:41

And the time came for Joseph Angus to leave, and so he left, but he left a note for Spurgeon to try to set up another appointment because he would like to talk to him about his education.

19:52

And then Spurgeon found out that Joseph Angus had already left, and he was discouraged about this, but as he was walking back to a place where he could take the train back to where he was living, he had this deep impression that came to him in the form of a scripture verse,

20:12

Seekest thou great things for thyself? Seek them not. And he concluded that since he was already the pastor of a church, rather than interrupt the ministry he had and the weekly preparation of sermons in order to go and get formal education, that he would just continue in the course that he had and not attend that Baptist academy.

20:36

So his father had encouraged him to get the education, and his grandfather, but he decided independently as a result of these impressions that he would just continue with his pastoral ministry and give himself to study on his own terms.

20:51

But it was true that at that time the centers could not attend and receive degrees from the colleges because they were all specifically designed for Anglicans.

21:04

That's amazing that even as recent in history as the 19th century that that was the case.

21:13

And so tell us what were the main focuses of Spurgeon in his theology?

21:22

We already addressed that he was a thoroughgoing five -point Calvinist, but lay out for us what would be the primary focal points of what he taught and preached.

21:38

Spurgeon developed what he called epitomes of doctrine.

21:44

One of them I think he actually got from D .L.

21:49

Moody. This shows the sort of the Catholicity of spirit that Spurgeon had for people who were doing good work in the preaching of the gospel.

21:57

And one of Moody's... And Moody was not Reformed either. What's that? And it shows his

22:04

Irenic spirit with the non -Reformed because Moody was not a Calvinist. Right.

22:10

And so Moody focused very much on ruin, redemption, and regeneration, the three

22:16

R's. And Spurgeon thought that was a very good summary and that anyone who would preach those things could be a sound theologian and a sound evangelist.

22:26

He himself said, but there's another epitome that I believe is better, and that is the five points of Calvinism.

22:33

And he just listed it, election according to the foreknowledge of God, the natural depravity and sinfulness of man, particular redemption by the blood of Christ, effectual calling by the power of the spirit, and ultimate perseverance by the efforts of God's might.

22:47

I think all those need to be believed, he said, in order to salvation.

22:54

Now, that last part, he would fluctuate on that. He did believe that the experience must conform to those things.

23:02

But he did believe people who were not formally intellectually Calvinist nevertheless could be saved.

23:10

But he thought that those were not merely negotiable items in the gospel but actually constituted what the gospel was.

23:18

There was also, though, a very strong emphasis, as I've already indicated, that Spurgeon had on seeing everything as arising out of the

23:27

Trinity. He believed that fundamental to Christianity was Trinitarian theology and that if anyone became soft on the

23:36

Trinity or began to diminish anything about the deity of Christ or reject the reality of the personhood of the spirit and the real operations of the spirit, that this was sub -Christian or anti -Christian theology.

23:52

So there was a very strong emphasis he had on the doctrine of the Trinity. And in his sermons, he shows that he does not lack any understanding of what we might call the early

24:05

Christological councils and technical Christology and technical

24:11

Trinitarianism. But he uses that language and that vocabulary. He talks about the person of Christ as God and man in one person, this complex person who has our nature.

24:26

And his personhood is guaranteed by the eternal personhood of Christ. And our nature, the

24:35

Son of God took to himself our nature. So he speaks much in terms of the

24:41

Orthodox councils concerning the person of Christ. And then concerning the doctrine of the

24:47

Trinity, he did the same. He was, there's one section that I read recently where the issue of circumcensio or the participation of all three persons of the

25:01

Trinity and everything that is in one sense distinctive of a single person.

25:09

For example, the death of Christ is something that Christ alone could do because in his humanity he could die.

25:17

But nevertheless, there was in the death of Christ a sustaining power of the Holy Spirit.

25:23

And there was the activity of the Father in setting his wrath on Christ with the complete knowledge that this was a part of the eternal covenant of redemption.

25:38

In the convicting of sin, the Father was active and the Son was active, but it was most appropriately the work of the

25:46

Holy Spirit. And anyway, he would develop these Orthodox, this

25:54

Orthodox vocabulary and these Orthodox ideas about the Trinity as something that was absolutely essential for a proper understanding of theology.

26:06

So there are several spheres within which Spurgeon operated and where he would expand the implications of believing those ideas and would reason out as to why to reject a particular aspect of it was a theology that could eventually become non -Christian.

26:28

So he was quite aware of all the interconnections of the theological, historic theological confessions and was clear in his sermons on these.

26:41

He would not go into some of the Latin phrases and some of the discussions that others might, but it's very obvious that he was clear in his own understanding and that he felt that his audience, even those people who lived south of the

26:59

Thames there in London, that it would be good for their souls to understand that theology.

27:07

Go ahead. I was just going to say, how much, if at all, did

27:15

Spurgeon's theology develop or his understanding of biblical theology and teaching?

27:21

How much did it develop and change from the time he was a 16 -year -old pastor to the time of his death?

27:28

Do we know anything about any radical or even minor changes? Yeah. I have a book called

27:39

The Child is the Father of the Man in which I try to take 10 different areas of Spurgeon's life and show how he developed the convictions about those areas very early, some of them even before he was converted, but then very soon after his conversion, how these convictions developed.

28:00

What I try to demonstrate in that book is that there was very little change in his understanding.

28:06

The only change would be an expansion of understanding, but not a change in the essential commitment to certain doctrinal ideas.

28:19

For example, the doctrines of grace. Even just within a week of his conversion, he would be talking about the doctrines of grace and his absolute dependence upon them and that he knows he would not be saved, that if he had not been elected, there was no way in which he could have been saved, that he had not been able to be called.

28:42

His heart was so hard that he knows he could not have believed. And he didn't change that all the way through.

28:48

Praise God. What's that? I said praise God. Yeah. All the way through, those doctrines were precious to him and he never changed.

28:59

His understanding of the infallibility of Scripture. He had a very sophisticated understanding of the doctrine of inspiration and our dependence upon divine revelation for our knowledge of all of these things related to God and the eternal covenant of redemption and so forth.

29:15

And so from the very first day, he was vowed that he would never do anything that would indicate any doubt of the full truthfulness of Scripture and its inspiration.

29:29

And he maintained that throughout. And so when you come to the downgrade controversy, this is one of the main things that was a point of contention was the rejection of the doctrine of the infallibility of Scripture.

29:40

And he still is saying many of the same things that he had said earlier. His expansion of an understanding of the importance is there because now he sees that it is being challenged and he sees what happens in the churches when people forget the infallibility of Scripture and that they are dependent upon God's revealed truth for their knowledge of God and their knowledge of the gospel.

30:06

Now, you said that he maintained the doctrines of grace from an early age, even very shortly after his conversion was clearly spelling out the fact that he owes his salvation to the fact that he was unconditionally elected and so on.

30:27

Has it known whether or not he ever returned to the primitive Methodist church where he was saved as a teenager and tried to share with them the doctrines of Reformed theology since obviously primitive

30:42

Methodists were not at all Calvinist? You know, he did return to the church shortly after his conversion.

30:51

And the sermon there had a completely different effect on him. The first sermon that he heard from the layman when he told him to look to Christ, he says, you know, look to me and be ye saved all the ends of the earth.

31:02

And he said, this is Jesus talking. He says, it's not the Father that's saying look to me and be ye saved or the

31:08

Spirit. He said, you can learn those things later but this is the bleeding Son of God. He says, look to me,

31:13

I'm dying on the cross. Look to me, I'm buried. Look to me, I'm being raised. Look to me, I'm intercession. Look to me and be ye saved.

31:20

And Spurgeon says, and I looked and I was saved. Then he says he went back and he heard another sermon and he concluded that primitive

31:29

Methodist doctrine was good for pointing to Christ in conversion but was good for little after that.

31:38

So yeah, he did go back but I don't think he ever went back to try to instruct them. He went back to hear and concluded that God sovereignly had used that message to bring him to see that everything depended upon the work of Christ.

31:53

But then when he heard another sermon there, I think he might have heard of something from falling from grace and warnings about losing your faith and things like that.

32:02

He just knew that that was not consistent with how

32:08

God operated. So he said that Methodist doctrine was good for his conversion but good for little else.

32:15

We're going to return and I want you to pick up again on the downgrade controversy since it was such a major phenomenon going on in Spurgeon's, during Spurgeon's ministry.

32:28

Something that led him to Great Depression and so on. And we'll have you pick up on that so our listeners have more of an understanding of exactly what that was.

32:39

But if anybody wants to send in a question to Dr. Nettles our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

32:47

chrisarnson at gmail .com As always, give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

32:55

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away we'll be right back with Dr.

33:03

Thomas Nettles on the theme Charles Haddon Spurgeon the theologian right after these messages from our sponsors

33:19

The Church's one foundation is Jesus Christ her

33:26

Lord Since 2007 Anchored in Truth Ministries has hosted the annual

33:32

True Church Conference at Grace Life Church of the Shoals in Muscle Shoals, Alabama This conference began as a training conference for pastors and church leaders who are striving to build true, biblically healthy churches.

33:44

Conference themes have included Church Discipline Repentance, Discipleship Conversion, Hyper -Calvinism

33:51

The Family, The Doctrine of Sin, and The Pretenders Anchored in Truth Ministries would like to invite you to the 2022

33:59

True Church Conference which will be held from February 17th through the 20th. The theme of the conference will be

34:05

Healthy Body Life in the Local Church, specifically as it pertains to Biblical Church Discipline Biblical Counseling Biblical Conflict Resolution and Protecting the

34:15

Sheep from Savage Wolves The scheduled speakers for the conference are Daryl Harrison Virgil Walker, Jeff Knoblett Jonathan Sims, Richard Caldwell, David Miller and Barry King.

34:28

For more information or to register for the conference please visit anchoredintruth .org that's anchoredintruth .org

34:36

and click on the True Church Conference tab at the top of the page. Hope to see you there!

34:49

As a mother, I was looking for a magazine that would include devotionals that I could quickly do before school and had theology and doctrine made very simple for children to understand that they could read themselves or I could walk them through.

35:06

There's tiered content so that you can go to the older group and learn more or go to a younger section and it's even more simple.

35:15

Join us on our journey in developing our magazine entitled Ignited by the Word which engages and ignites the hearts of our children and young people in their walk with God Order Ignited by the

35:29

Word for your home today at ignitedbytheword .org Learn more information and subscribe now at ignitedbytheword .org

35:38

and receive your first two issues free and put good literature in your children's hands.

35:48

Hello, my name is Anthony Uvinio and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum New York and also the host of the reformrookie .com

35:57

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do you can now find it on the

36:04

Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron radio in the search bar. You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the

36:17

Iron Sharpens Iron radio show at any time day or night. Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnson has on the show.

36:30

Truth is so hard to come by these days so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the

36:36

Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

36:42

podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian Theology from a

36:48

Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers. From Keech's Catechism and the

36:55

Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie Podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking

37:04

Biblical truth. And finally if you're looking to worship in a Reformed Church that holds to the 1689

37:09

London Baptist Confession of Faith please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, New York.

37:15

Again I'm Pastor Anthony Invidio and thanks for listening. We are excited to announce another new member of the

37:30

Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family. Banu Gadi owner of three

37:35

New York pharmacies Lee's Drugs of Floral Park Long Beach Chemists and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.

37:44

Banu Gadi earned a Doctorate in Pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current Coronavirus pandemic

37:50

Please contact Dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media

38:00

To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 354 2000

38:06

That's 516 354 2000 Or order online at Lee's Drugs Rx .com

38:15

That's L -E -E -S Drugs Rx .com Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program

38:23

Music If you love

38:30

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers

38:37

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

38:43

Daniel P. Patafuco serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist

38:49

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society Their mission to foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God They go to various churches schools and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.

39:10

Patafuco demonstrating the reliability of scripture To advance the cause of the gospel they created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611

39:27

King James Bible This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve This book is complete with gorgeous full size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the

39:44

Tower of Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe

39:53

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more

40:08

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org That's historicalbiblesociety .org

40:16

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air And we want to thank from the bottom of our hearts

40:24

Dan Patafuco, founder and president of the Historical Bible Society for sending in an extremely generous financial gift to Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio today on top of the dollars he is spending already on advertising

40:40

So thank you so much and also folks, if you are a man in ministry leadership whether you are a pastor, an elder a deacon, by the way

40:50

I believe pastors and elders are the same office folks but if you are a pastor, an elder a deacon, a leader in a parachurch organization whatever leadership position you hold and you are a man you are invited to the next

41:04

Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio pastor's luncheon which will be held in Loisville, Pennsylvania on April 7th 11am to 2pm

41:13

Loisville is about a half hour from Carlisle, where I am sitting right now and Dan Patafuco is our pastor's luncheon speaker, he's going to be speaking on the theme how we received the

41:25

Bible in the English language from its original languages and you will be spellbound by this presentation if you attend as I have been many times

41:36

I've seen Dan give this presentation on a number of occasions and he will have with him a portion of the collection of rare Bibles and Christian books of antiquity that is owned by the

41:50

Historical Bible Society, he will bring a portion of that with him to this presentation and that portion that he is bringing will include a first edition 1611

42:03

King James Bible a first edition illustrated Fox's Book of Martyrs and a page from the

42:11

Gutenberg Bible which is the first book ever printed. If you would like to attend this event, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

42:20

chrisarnson at gmail .com and remember this is for men only in ministry leadership. If you've just tuned us in, our guest today is

42:29

Tom Nettles and he is greatly beloved amongst Reformed Baptists globally especially he is one of the most learned theologians in the area of history especially and we are discussing

42:48

Charles Adams Spurgeon the theologian. If you would like to send in an email with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

42:55

Always give us your first name at least city and state of residence and country of residence. The downgrade controversy is something that was occurring during Spurgeon's ministry and the cause of great grief to him and the catalyst to deep depression in his mind and in his spirit.

43:16

If you could let our listeners know more details about this horrible de -evolution of theology that was prevalent in Spurgeon's day.

43:30

This is a pretty traumatic event for Spurgeon through the 1880's he was recognizing that modernism was beginning to creep into evangelicalism he observed first of all as it affected the

43:46

Andover theology in America how it was changing the doctrine of sin, total depravity of justification by faith of substitutionary atonement these views more and more were seen as immoral anything that related to imputation was seen as out of accord with modern ethical sensibilities so the doctrines were being altered then he began to trace this within English theology

44:17

English evangelical theology also and eventually he saw it coming into the

44:25

Baptist Union so in 1887 he published a series of articles one written by a man named

44:33

I think Robert Schindler it was that was the first one called A Word on the

44:39

Downgrade and he discussed how suddenly these false theologies begin to come into evangelicals and he located the first fault line was a rejection of the inerrancy of scripture he talked about how once that is rejected you lose the authority of the

45:01

Bible being a revelation something that is simply a work of sort of human theological thinking.

45:09

Then you develop cafeteria Christianity where people just pick and choose what they believe is God breathed and reject everything else.

45:15

Exactly, yeah, and so it doesn't matter if the scripture speaks very specifically about substitutionary atonement if we have reached the conclusion ethically that that is not a valid way for salvation to come by imputation then we're free to reject it and that's what he saw happening and so once you lose the infallibility of scripture and the doctrine of a revelation that is a revelation from God all these doctrines as you said become negotiable and you can just take what you want to out of the modern consensus of what is right and wrong and Spurgeon recognized that and he published that article and began to get criticism so then he began to publish articles also in which he affirmed what

46:05

Schindler had said that there was a downgrade Spurgeon did not give any names he was aware of this because the

46:13

Secretary of the Baptist Union S .H. Booth had shared letters with him and shared snippets of sermons with him that had been published but S .H.

46:24

Booth asked him not to sort of go public with the names of these people Spurgeon kept his word to Booth but Booth didn't come to his aid when he began to be accused of being a divider of affections among his brethren and so by October he began to see that he was on the losing end of this from the standpoint of making any progress in the

46:53

Baptist Union itself and he resigned from the Baptist Union churches and pastors had individual memberships in the

47:02

Baptist Union so he resigned his membership as pastor of the Metropolitan Tabernacle.

47:08

Eventually the church followed suit under the leadership of its deacons and resigned from the

47:14

Baptist Union Now how prevalent was the downgrade outside of the

47:19

Baptist Union in the 19th century when Spurgeon was back? Yeah well it was present in the

47:25

Congregationalists and the Presbyterians. Presbyterians had even earlier and they had just fallen away.

47:31

Anyway there was very little Orthodox and English Presbyterianism throughout the 19th century.

47:36

It had fallen off into Smithsonianism Congregationalism of course which has the background of people like John Owen had maintained their

47:44

Orthodoxy for a while longer but they too were falling away and the

47:49

Baptists had maintained their Orthodoxy longer than either the Presbyterians or the

47:54

Congregationalists but Baptists had two different groups they had a group that was known as the

48:01

Particular Baptists that were Calvinistic Baptists and then they had the General Baptists that were organized into a specific connection and among the

48:11

General Baptists this decline began to become much earlier than it did among the

48:16

Particular Baptists in fact as early as the last part of the 18th century the the

48:23

General Baptists had divided into an old connection and a new connection and Dan Taylor a

48:32

General Baptist preacher was instrumental in establishing what was called the

48:37

New Connection of General Baptists which maintained its Orthodoxy on the person of Christ on Atonement and so forth but of course it was still

48:45

Arminian and then the New Connection of General Baptists began to decline also and by the middle of the 19th century there were overtures for a unity between the

48:56

General Baptists and the Particular Baptists and Spurgeon was hesitant about that not only because of the

49:03

Calvinistic impact or the Arminian impact that the General Baptists would have but because he saw a decline coming into the

49:12

General Baptist connections but then more formal overtures began to be made in the last part of the 1880s and eventually in 1891 there was a union between the

49:28

General Baptists and the Particular Baptists and all those divisions of nomenclature were abolished but Spurgeon had resigned from the

49:36

Baptist Union four years before that in 1887 so there was decline generally it came to the

49:43

Particular Baptists later but it was a noticeable decline in the preaching of many of the prominent pulpits among the

49:50

Particular Baptists Now how is this reflected in America at the time was the

50:01

Baptist congregations in general and Presbyterians and other evangelical denominations as badly affected at that time as was

50:11

England well part of the argument of these articles that appeared to sort of trowel were that this tendency toward liberalism had begun among the

50:23

Congregationalists at Andover but then gradually it was making its way into others so we know in the

50:31

Baptists we see a person like William Newton Clark who taught at Colgate was the first person that wrote a systematic theology from a liberal standpoint it was not as radically liberal as happened later but nevertheless it was written from a liberal standpoint that denied the inerrancy of scripture that had questions about substitutionary atonement, about total depravity, about it had some pretty wonky views of the doctrine of the

51:04

Trinity and placed most of the genius of Christianity in the experience that one could have of God as Father and this is the main value of Christ that he had an unbroken perception of God as Father and when we have faith in Christ and we follow

51:21

Christ this means that we adopt his view of God as our Father the

51:27

Christian religion is not a religion about Christ but it is Christ's religion so that is what began to happen in Baptist life in the last part of the 19th century and this was concurrent with what was happening in the 1880s in England among the

51:46

Baptists so there was a parallel movement and then of course in Baptist life you have, this is followed up not only with William Newton Clark but you have

51:55

Shaylor Matthews and Harry Emerson Fosdick and you have many others that come and this leads to the conservative fundamentalist controversy that goes into the 20th century so this was a general phenomenon throughout evangelicalism and we have to get to our midway break right now please be patient with us folks because as you know if you listen regularly the midway break is longer than the other breaks in the show because Grace Life Radio 90 .1

52:23

FM in Lake City Florida requires of us a longer break in the show because they use this time which is required by the

52:30

FCC to localize geographically Grace Life Radio to Lake City Florida.

52:37

We simultaneously while they do that are globally heard commercials so please use this time wisely write down as much of the information as you can provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully reply or respond to our advertisers.

52:53

Hopefully that will sometimes mean that you are purchasing their products, using their services, supporting their parachurch organizations and visiting their churches.

53:02

But when you can't do any of those, please at the very least reply to our advertisers using the contact information they provide in their commercials and thank them for sponsoring

53:14

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio that is if indeed you do really thank them, if you do love this show and you want it to remain on the air keep in mind folks, we absolutely positively need our advertisers to remain on the air also write down questions for Tom Nettles and send them to chrisarnson at gmail .com

53:33

chrisarnson at gmail .com don't go away we will be back with Tom Nettles on our theme

53:41

Charles Haddon Spurgeon, The Theologian after these messages from our sponsors When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

53:58

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

54:07

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

54:12

NASB I'm Dr. Joseph Piper President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina and the

54:23

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Pastor Chuck White of the

54:29

First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York and the NASB is my Bible of choice

54:35

I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia and the NASB is my

54:40

Bible of choice I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada and the

54:47

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York and the

54:56

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas and the

55:05

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York and the

55:12

NASB is my Bible of choice Here's a great way for your church to help keep

55:18

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

55:24

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

55:33

Go to nasbible .com that's nasbible .com to place your order

55:41

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long time partnership with our friends at CVBBS which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service They specialize in supplying

55:58

Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for everyone CVBBS has been a family owned book service since 1987 operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania They seek to bring you the best available

56:12

Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices Unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time

56:25

That means you can get to the good stuff faster It also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical and otherwise faith insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors

56:37

Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service Order online at www .cvbbs

56:47

.com that's www .cvbbs .com or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231 that's 1 -800 -656 -0231

57:01

Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Oh hail the

57:13

Lord Jesus This is

57:19

Pastor Bill Sousa Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

57:30

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

57:46

Lord Jesus Christ and of course the end from which we strive is the glory of God If you live near Franklin Tennessee and Franklin is just south of Nashville maybe 10 minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will join us some

58:06

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org

58:19

that's gracechurchatfranklin .org that's gracechurchatfranklin .org This is

58:24

Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord, God, Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always

58:40

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register flipping burgers, passing 6th grade.

58:47

Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments and certifications But do you know what requires no training at all?

58:55

Becoming a parent My name is A .M. Brewster I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent and host of its award winning podcast

59:03

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000's and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes

59:13

That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

59:19

God called and created them to be We produce free parenting resources train church leaders and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness

59:31

Please visit us at truthloveparent .com Music As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations

59:53

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980's is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's

01:00:05

God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world

01:00:11

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

01:00:17

God in spirit and truth Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

01:00:23

God -centered focus Reading, preaching, and hearing the word of God singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith, joy, and sobriety

01:00:37

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

01:00:46

.com That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com

01:00:53

Or call them at 908 -996 -7654 That's 908 -996 -7654

01:01:02

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Hi, this is

01:01:21

John Sampson Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

01:01:28

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

01:01:40

Christian faith I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray

01:01:49

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised

01:01:56

Chris up for just such a time and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances

01:02:05

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

01:02:11

Iron Sharpens Iron financially Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

01:02:19

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

01:02:26

where you can click support That's ironsharpensironradio .com Here's what

01:02:37

Gary DeMar, President of American Vision had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently

01:02:42

Good to be back, Chris I always enjoy our time here I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there and I've been doing this for more than 30 years

01:02:52

Wow, that's some compliment How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything

01:03:00

We're in good shape I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself

01:03:06

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio airing live Monday through Friday 4 -6pm

01:03:13

Eastern Time at ironsharpensironradio .com Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said

01:03:27

Give yourself unto reading The man who never reads will never be read He who never quotes will never be quoted

01:03:34

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own

01:03:40

You need to read Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

01:03:47

Prince of Preachers to heart The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world

01:03:59

Since its beginning in 2001 Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting books for all ages

01:04:07

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

01:04:12

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Ironsharpensironradio .com

01:04:27

And please folks, never forget how valuable how vital solid -ground -books .com

01:04:33

is to the work of Ironsharpensironradio .com They are a primary sponsor of this program.

01:04:41

Should they cease to advertise with us we may very likely have to go off the air.

01:04:47

They are that important to us and we want to thank Mike Gade -Ush of solid -ground -books .com

01:04:55

for increasing his advertising budget with us and that was certainly a gift from God to learn that news and Mike has been raving to us about you, the listeners of Ironsharpensironradio .com

01:05:09

who are purchasing many books from him, both longtime customers of that ministry and also brand new customers that he had never before heard from and I want to thank all of you from the bottom of my heart for purchasing gifts from solid -ground -books .com

01:05:28

With Valentine's Day and Easter coming up, why not make solid -ground -books .com your very first stop for gift purchasing and by the way

01:05:37

I know Dr. Tom Nettles, my guest today, is familiar with solid -ground Christian books and would you not also commend this work to our listeners?

01:05:46

Oh sure, absolutely there's excellent books that are published by Solid Ground and some books that you can't find anywhere else

01:05:55

Michael searches out these different books and finds them and publishes them just because of their edifying value

01:06:03

In fact, there was one book he published that is, I think by Thomas Moore, it has to do with counsel.

01:06:10

Oh yeah, that's an excellent find because he had never heard of that Thomas Moore, there are several

01:06:15

Thomas Moores from history, we can assure you folks that it is not the Roman Catholic martyr. Nope.

01:06:22

But it is not the one affiliated with Moore College in Australia either, but a very excellent book.

01:06:28

Right, and what happened was, I was reading through all of the minutes of those people that Spurgeon had as counselors, for those who would respond, wanting to be converted, wanting to be baptized, wanting to become members of the church, you had a group of counselors that would work, and one of them was named

01:06:50

Thomas Moore, and I read through all of these things and all of a sudden I realized that this is the

01:06:55

Thomas Moore who wrote that book, and I called Michael and talked to him about it, and so the

01:07:02

Thomas Moore who wrote that book was a person that was a member of Spurgeon's congregation and was actually a person that was responsible for giving advice and giving counsel to those who had responded to evangelistic appeals from the church or from witnesses within the church.

01:07:24

Well I'm sure Mike Adash is going to be thrilled that you have been on the air giving him such a wonderful commendation in the work of Solid Ground Christian Books, and folks, please remember whenever you make a purchase from Solid Ground Christian Books to mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:07:44

Also folks, please remember that we need your support through donations and advertising.

01:07:50

We have experienced a horrible plunge in our finances.

01:07:56

It was likely due, although I'm not certain this is the reason, it's likely due because we were airing reruns for a number of weeks while we were transitioning from our old location in Carlisle, Pennsylvania to our new location right up the road.

01:08:13

It required that we go off the air for a while to get our studio set up and have it functioning again, and we had our premier broadcast in the new location with James White of Alpha Omega Ministries last week.

01:08:27

But that period of airing reruns seems to have affected in a negative way our donations, and they have plummeted to almost nothing with the exception of a handful including

01:08:41

Dan Buttafuoco, who I just mentioned earlier, the founder and president of the Historical Bible Society, just today sent in a really generous donation on top of his advertising budget, in addition to some other folks that are just individual listeners that I have never seen in person, did not know who they were, and I'm so grateful not only for old friends who support the show financially, but also people that I've never heard from before who have been encouraging me.

01:09:13

But we really need more of you to help us because we're really in a dangerous situation. If you love this show and you don't want it to disappear, go to www .irontreppanzionradio

01:09:22

.com, click support, then click, click to donate now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

01:09:29

If you prefer snail mail, there will also be a physical address that appears on the screen when you click support at www .irontreppanzionradio

01:09:36

.com. Remember folks, please do not carve money out of your regular giving that you're accustomed to to your own local church in order to give to Irontreppanzionradio.

01:09:49

This program was founded with one of the key reasons to be a friend, a helping hand, and a support and platform to the local church.

01:10:02

I never want to do anything that hinders the work of the local pastor and the local church, including financially.

01:10:09

So don't give your own church less than you usually give them by giving us something.

01:10:15

And please, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, don't take food off of your family's dinner table by giving to Irontreppanzionradio.

01:10:23

Wait until the Lord blesses you with an increase in income. if you are, if you have been blessed financially, above and beyond your ability to support your church and your family, and you love this show and you don't want it to disappear, please give to Irontreppanzionradio.

01:10:43

Go to Irontreppanzionradio .com, click support, then click to donate now. We have tens of thousands of people every month downloading the recordings of this show, and yet a tiny handful are giving financially.

01:10:57

And it's mind -boggling, and I thank all of you who have been. Please never think

01:11:03

I underestimate the generosity of those who have been giving since we first launched in 2005 on Long Island, New York, up to the present day, and those who are brand new sponsors or donors, please don't ever think that I overlook or underestimate or take for granted the precious gift from God you are in your generosity.

01:11:27

But please, we need more of you if indeed you want the show to stay on the air. Go to Irontreppanzionradio .com,

01:11:32

click support, then click, click to donate now. Also, if you are not a member of a

01:11:38

Christ -honoring, doctrinally sound, theologically faithful church in your area, no matter where on the planet

01:11:48

Earth you live, I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches spanning the globe, and I may be aware of a church near where you live no matter where that may be.

01:11:59

So send me an email if you fit that category, or if you have family, friends, and loved ones that fit that category of being in need of a biblically faithful church.

01:12:07

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:12:13

I need a church in the subject line. That also is the email address where I would like you to send in questions for Dr.

01:12:27

Nettles. We do have some questions that have come in, and we will get to as many of those as possible.

01:12:36

And if you would like to join those already online, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:12:45

Please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:12:51

USA. Dr. Nettles, I don't know if you have completed what you wanted to say about the downgrade controversy, but you can add anything that you'd like, but I also wanted to ask about those within the professed body of Christ that were cause of much grief dispersion on the other end of the spectrum.

01:13:13

Hyper -Calvinists were known for their attacks upon him. I believe if I'm not mistaken, it was largely from the denomination that still exists, although I think it's been greatly reduced in membership numbers, but the strict

01:13:29

Baptists as they were called were, and I believe are,

01:13:35

Hyper -Calvinists. There are two groups. There are some strict Baptists that are

01:13:41

Hyper -Calvinists, but the strict Baptists are not confessionally Hyper -Calvinists.

01:13:46

Their view is strict communion. They're very strong on closed communion. The group that are confessionally

01:13:54

Hyper -Calvinists are called Gospel Standard Baptists. They followed William Gadsby's paper that he published called the

01:14:03

Gospel Standard, and it was a clear anti -Fullerite view, an anti -beauty faith paper.

01:14:12

Is he also the one that developed the great hymnal, though? Yes, yes, the wonderful hymnal.

01:14:18

William Gadsby's got a wonderful hymnal, and I have an anecdote that one of his great hymns was,

01:14:30

Oh, what matchless condescension the eternal God displayed, claiming our supreme attention to his matchless words and ways, his own glory he reveals in gospel days.

01:14:40

And then he's got a line in there that has sinners trust him, sinners trust him, and rejoice in his dear name.

01:14:50

No, worms. Worms approach him. Worms approach him and rejoice in his dear name.

01:14:57

I led a sort of a prayer chapel up in Trinity when

01:15:02

I was there, and I had the congregation sing that Gadsby hymn of Oh, what matchless condescension.

01:15:12

And there is a very outspoken but godly evangelical Arminian on the faculty there named

01:15:19

David Larson, who has written two or three books on preaching. Very, very fine preacher.

01:15:26

And so after the service, David was coming down the aisle singing, Worms approach him.

01:15:32

Worms approach him and rejoice in his dear name. And so he said,

01:15:38

We need to sing that more, brother. He said, That's what we've got to do as worms approach the throne of grace.

01:15:45

And I would smile. I said, You know, this is a unique moment. I said, Here we are. I have an

01:15:50

Arminian coming down the aisle singing the hymn of a hypercalifragilisticexpialidocious. So it just shows that when there is that biblically informed experientialism that sort of oozes out as we worship the

01:16:07

Savior, there are things that we have in common with each other that formally we may not actually be able to say.

01:16:15

Yeah, like, it just flew out of my head. It wasn't John Stott.

01:16:20

It was the other late British Anglican.

01:16:26

J .F. Packer? J .F. Packer, right. And in spite of any serious differences I had with him on ecumenism, he was right on the money so many times.

01:16:35

And one of them was when he said that even Arminians are Calvinists on their knees.

01:16:42

So he was referring to prayer. Right, right, yeah. And of course everyone looks at the great hymn of Charles Wesley.

01:16:51

Long mine prison spirit lay, fast bound in sin and nature's night. Thine eye diffused a quickening ray.

01:16:57

I woke the dungeon flame with light. My chains fell off, my heart was free. I rose, went forth, and followed thee.

01:17:04

And of course Calvinists can sing that as effectual calling just as easily as a

01:17:11

Wesleyan can sing it as prevenient grace. Just wonderful words. So there are those points of connection that we don't need to minimize.

01:17:21

We need to make sure that we maintain those without any kind of confusing of our formal doctrine.

01:17:29

Now if you could distinguish between historic, biblically faithful Calvinism and hyper -Calvinism,

01:17:36

I know that some of my audience may be rolling their eyes because I say this so often, but it needs to be pointed out because so many people slander biblically faithful historic

01:17:47

Calvinists as being hyper -Calvinists just because we believe in the five points of Calvinism. And that is not the historic definition of hyper -Calvinism.

01:17:55

So if you could explain what that is and how Spurgeon dealt with it and what kind of an impact did it have this antagonism against him by hyper -Calvinists, what kind of an impact if any did it have on his ministry?

01:18:09

Yeah, well, within the first year of Spurgeon's ministry there in London, the hyper -Calvinists began to rail against him because he was having such,

01:18:20

I mean, large crowds were coming to hear him preach and there were people being converted and he was baptizing converts and there was this thinking that he has to be preaching false doctrine for him to be having that much success.

01:18:31

It has to be some sort of manipulative thing that he has going on. And he preached in the first part of, like in the second week of 1855, he preached a message called

01:18:43

The Sin of Unbelief which I think was largely the influence of one of Stephen Charnock's sermons on the sin of unbelief, the greatest of all sins.

01:18:57

There are some points that are very similar, but of course Spurgeon developed it in his own style, in his own way.

01:19:03

But the point was that he was saying that unbelief is a sin and unbelief is the foundation of all sins.

01:19:11

And then he gives this anecdote where someone had come to him and said, I heard a very orthodox preacher preach and he said that unbelief is no sin.

01:19:20

Spurgeon knew what he was talking about. He was talking about the hyper -Calvinists. Hyper -Calvinism has a theology that sees since faith in Christ is the result of a special operation of the

01:19:37

Holy Spirit and effectual calling. And that it is only by such faith as generated by the

01:19:44

Spirit that a person can be rightly related to God. It is something that is purely a matter of grace that transcends the original instructions given to Adam in the garden.

01:19:59

The original instructions given to Adam in the garden were, do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

01:20:07

Obey and you will live. If you disobey, you will die. There was nothing in that command that indicated that he could be rightly related to God, could have the knowledge of God that would lead to eternal life through faith in a

01:20:24

Redeemer. There was nothing in those original instructions that led Adam to believe that there could be redemption from sin and that it would be faith in the

01:20:35

Redeemer that would give that redemption. Therefore that is something that is over and above the original regulations.

01:20:44

Since it is that, and since it was not a command to be rightly related through faith in a

01:20:51

Redeemer, then it is something that is not a moral command for any person now.

01:20:59

We are justly condemned for our disobedience to the law because the law was originally written on the heart, but we are not condemned for not believing because belief is something that is a work purely of grace which was not even conceived of as possible by Adam in the unfallen state.

01:21:18

Therefore, since it was not an obligation to Adam to relate himself to the

01:21:25

Redeemer by faith, it is not an obligation to any of the sons of Adam.

01:21:31

And so the idea of grace in a substitute, the idea of faith in a substitute, was something that is purely a matter of something that was hidden in the counsels of God from eternity that cannot pose any moral obligation upon sinners.

01:21:52

So, if we preach that faith is necessary and that lack of faith is a sin, we are unbiblical, so says the

01:22:03

Hyper -Calvinist. Now, these Hyper -Calvinists, because I know there are different kinds, you have

01:22:10

Hyper -Calvinists from the Netherlands Reformed denomination, for instance, who have a very tiny gate to heaven smaller than that which would be biblical.

01:22:23

And then you have the Primitive Baptists who have an enormous gate to heaven because they so remove faith from the regeneration experience that they believe that the elect include people who will never come to faith in Christ on this earth.

01:22:39

That is a great number of them do. I don't want to broad brush. There are Primitive Baptists who are biblically solid, who have even had friends of mine preach at their conferences and so on.

01:22:53

does this group that you are referring to, including the Hyper -Calvinist wing of the

01:22:58

Strict Baptist, did they believe that those without faith would be damned? My understanding,

01:23:07

I don't know that I can give an absolute answer to that based on my knowledge of them, but my understanding of the original

01:23:17

Primitive Baptists that were opposing Spurgeon. And of course there was another

01:23:22

Primitive Baptist movement as you pointed out in America that was opposed to the missionary societies that generated after the conversion of Judson and Rice and so forth.

01:23:32

They were anti -mission society Baptists and they sort of degenerated into Hyper -Calvinists.

01:23:38

But this group in England that Spurgeon was dealing with, as far as I understand them, they did believe that it was just for God to condemn all men who were sinners to hell.

01:23:49

That election is not something that would overcome a lack of having heard the gospel or a lack of faith.

01:24:00

But that God would see to it that people believed somehow. But there was a large group of Hyper -Calvinists that believed that they were elect among all the nations and they would be saved simply because God would save them by sovereign grace without necessarily hearing the gospel.

01:24:17

That's the reason I mentioned earlier that one of the things that Spurgeon was so strong on in his

01:24:22

Calvinism was the use of means. This is present from the very beginning.

01:24:28

And the Primitive Baptists called the means doctrine a heresy. They would say that you are by nature of believing in that an

01:24:35

Arminian which is really ironic because many, if not most, of the Primitive Baptists are

01:24:43

Hypo -Calvinists. They're non -Calvinists when it comes to the providence of God in events that happen in history like earthquakes and volcanoes and people dying of cancer because they smoked habitually.

01:25:03

Many of them would say God had nothing to do with those things that killed thousands, if not millions.

01:25:11

You used the term Hypo -Calvinist? I hadn't heard that. That's good. Hypers become

01:25:20

Hypos. As I understand it, that's the way the doctrine developed in the 19th century among the particular

01:25:29

Baptists that became Hyper -Calvinists. John Brine was one of the leaders of this.

01:25:36

I don't think personally that John Gill fits in with fully Hyper -Calvinist.

01:25:42

You are at odds with Ian Murray on that, I know. Of course, it's just one of those things where it doesn't create enmity between people who disagree with that way of reading the sources.

01:25:55

Spurgeon was dealing with a full -blown Hyper -Calvinism. Particularly the leader of the Hyper -Calvinists in London was a man named

01:26:01

James Wells. Spurgeon tried to reach out to him and be friendly with him. Wells got sick one time and was very ill,

01:26:09

I think, and eventually died from it. Spurgeon was very sympathetic to him and wrote him a note, a very encouraging note.

01:26:16

But he understood even as a 21 -year -old, he understood the point of belief that faith was something that they said was not necessary.

01:26:28

It is not a sin not to have faith. And so Spurgeon has got this sermon called, Unbelief of Sin.

01:26:34

And he goes into all, just goes throughout the Bible, showing how that the root of all sin, including

01:26:43

Adam's sin, is a lack of belief. That belief in Adam's unfallen state carries over to, and his unbelief that he was led into by deceit carries over into unbelief in the world.

01:26:59

And he says if unbelief is not a sin, then the whole Bible is a charade because it is all built upon the fact that the root of all sin is unbelief.

01:27:10

And Jesus himself said he would convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment of sin because they believed not on me.

01:27:20

And so he does sort of this biblical theology of belief to demonstrate that it is a sin not to believe.

01:27:30

And so his conflict with the Hyper -Calvinists is something that was based upon an understanding he had of what he considered to be an unbiblical theology at the foundation of Hyper -Calvinism.

01:27:45

But it was not due to any lack of commitment to the five points of Calvinism that he reiterated over and over and over.

01:27:54

We do have a question that's related to this. We have Christian in western

01:28:00

Suffolk County, New York who asked the question. He wrote this question before you began to defend

01:28:08

John Gill. But his question still is appropriate. He asks in your opinion was the predecessor of Charles Haddon and John Gill a

01:28:22

Hyper -Calvinist. It is my understanding but I may be wrong that Spurgeon himself viewed John Gill as a

01:28:27

Hyper -Calvinist. And I was wondering if you would recommend Gill's commentaries and if you defend

01:28:35

Gill if you would recommend Ian Murray's book, Spurgeon vs. Hyper -Calvinism.

01:28:42

Yeah, well, I'm not much on censoring books and I think there's a whole lot in Ian Murray's book that is really good.

01:28:51

Very insightful. Yeah, I love the book. Yeah, he's a great exegete of primary sources.

01:29:01

And I just think that the idea of John Gill being a Hyper -Calvinist is accepted too uncritically on the basis of the testimonies of some early 19th century

01:29:13

Baptist historians like Joseph Avamey for example, just considers that John Gill is not what he calls a non -application, non -invitation system as Hyper -Calvinism.

01:29:25

But there and Kurt Daniel in our day has argued very strongly that John Gill is a

01:29:33

Hyper -Calvinist and he and I have talked about this individually. And I know that there are some tendencies in Gill that could be interpreted as Hyper -Calvinism.

01:29:43

For example, when he deals with Wesley and Wesley talks about offers of grace and Gill says that he doesn't believe that there are any offers of grace.

01:29:55

That God makes no offers of grace, not even to his elect. Because God doesn't offer that which is purely a sovereign and omnipotent action on his part.

01:30:08

There are actions of grace, but no offers of grace. There are the operations of grace, but no offers of grace.

01:30:16

Now, we are to set forth before sinners the necessity of knowing

01:30:21

Christ and having faith in Him. That is something clearly revealed in Scripture and we come to that only by grace.

01:30:29

But that grace is something that is offered as if we can turn off grace or turn on grace by our will is something that Gill rejected.

01:30:39

But in his commentary on the book of Acts Gill talks about maybe in his commentary on John, Andrew going to John and telling him he's found the

01:30:53

Messiah. He says something like, it is the intrinsic propensity of those who have found the

01:31:02

Savior to go and tell others of the delight they have in Him. That doesn't sound like a

01:31:09

Hyper -Calvinist to me. And there are other things where Gill has particular points of Scripture.

01:31:19

For example, when Jesus is saying that oh, come to me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.

01:31:32

And I think that one of the Hyper -Calvinists interpreted that as somehow speaking only to those that he knew were elect.

01:31:43

And that this is not a general invitation that is given to all. And Gill makes the point that there were many there who did not believe in Jesus, who were not elect, but that he is simply stating this.

01:31:56

He would not be telling something to people that would increase their damnation if there was no genuine offer of salvation being made to them.

01:32:09

He didn't say a genuine offer of grace, but he says a genuine offer of salvation if they would come to him.

01:32:15

So there are several exegetical points throughout the commentaries of Gill that do not take the normal Hyper -Calvinist interpretation of them.

01:32:25

So, I'm open to be convinced about Gill. I still hold the position.

01:32:30

I don't think that he was a Hyper -Calvinist. I do believe his systematic theology is very helpful in most ways and deals with questions that a lot of systematic theologies did not deal with.

01:32:44

I think that his commentaries are very helpful. His knowledge of the language and especially his knowledge of the

01:32:50

Hebrew literature is so profound that he gives insight that other commentators do not give.

01:32:55

And so, I would say, you know, you can be careful about Gill at certain points, but Spurgeon read

01:33:03

Gill and Spurgeon commended Gill and was not embarrassed to be the successor of Gill.

01:33:11

He did call him a High -Calvinist. What did he mean by that? H -I -G -H. Yeah, well, in fact, he called himself a

01:33:19

High -Calvinist sometimes. Oh, okay. Yeah, High -Calvinism is a very powerful five -point

01:33:28

Calvinism. It's not... High -Calvinism was developed as a stating that basically the doctrine of the

01:33:40

Atonement is a particular Atonement. It is an Atonement that is rendered efficacious for the elect only and is given for efficacious in the death of Christ itself for the elect only.

01:33:55

And so High -Calvinism was given as sort of a...corrected to what some people believed was

01:34:02

Fuller's compromise of the doctrine of the Atonement by arguing very strongly for the formula of sufficient for all but efficient only for the elect.

01:34:15

Now, that doesn't really mean that you deny particular redemption, does it? I mean, because isn't

01:34:20

Christ's death powerful enough to save a billion sinners on a trillion planets?

01:34:30

Well, that's another question. If you read

01:34:35

Andrew Fuller on that, he is very clear that Christ's death will benefit only the elect, and he has a strong view of particular

01:34:45

Atonement, but he does hold that view of sufficient for all. Now, my view is that the

01:34:52

Atonement is efficient only for those for whom it is sufficient. I think that the idea of substitution and propitiation mean that the justice of God was active in the death of Christ to give all due punishment for the sins of those for whom

01:35:10

Christ has died. If Christ has suffered as a propitiation for those who in the end are not actually justified, then there has been, in a sense, an unjust suffering on the part of Christ.

01:35:28

That's just, I believe, the whole idea that the Scripture teaches that there is quantity of punishment that is necessary for sin, for certain types of sin, where Jesus said it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for Bethsaida and Chorazin.

01:35:48

That means that there are differing degrees of punishment, even in hell. So if there are degrees of punishment for different sins, and Christ has died as an effectual substitute and has died a propitiatory death, then he must have died for all the sins of all of those who will be redeemed.

01:36:06

That's just my personal view. I have loved much of what I have heard from Gil's pen and gave it a hearty amen when

01:36:17

I have heard it, and have been wanting to purchase his commentaries. And I know that there are people, even those that view him as a hyper -Calvinist, many of them still view him as the most brilliant Baptist theologian that ever lived and promote his commentaries, his systematic theology, even with what they would view as a flaw.

01:36:38

Do you have a particular set of his commentaries that you recommend? For instance,

01:36:44

I know the Strict Baptists have published his commentaries. I don't know if they add any commentary of their own in those volumes.

01:36:53

No, they don't. The Baptist Standard Bearer is the one that I have. I think it's out of Arkansas. multivolume set, that's the one

01:37:01

I have and use it. I don't notice that they have altered anything in it. They just reprint one of the editions of Gil's commentaries.

01:37:11

So that's what you would recommend then? Yeah. Alright, we have to go to our final break.

01:37:17

It's a lot more brief than the other two. If you have any questions, send them in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:37:24

ChrisArnson at gmail .com ChrisArnson at gmail .com as always give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

01:37:31

I'm going to read a question from a listener to you and have you answer it when we come back. We have

01:37:37

Andrew in Avon Lake, Ohio. Every time I hear that city and state

01:37:42

Avon Lake, there was an Avon Lake in Amityville, Ohio where I was raised and we used to go fishing in there, although we never ate anything that we caught because it was a toxic swamp.

01:37:54

But Andrew in Avon Lake, Ohio asks, he obviously tuned in late, but even though we've kind of addressed this, perhaps you could add something to it, to your answer.

01:38:08

I've heard some well -known Reformed pastors criticize Charles Spurgeon's theology on the grounds that he did not receive a formal theological education.

01:38:16

Do you think his preaching and writing was deficient because he did not attend seminary? We'll have you answer that when we come back.

01:38:23

Again, our email address is ChrisArnson at gmail .com Don't go away, we'll be right back with the conclusion of our interview with Tom Nettles on Charles Haddon Spurgeon, the theologian, right after these messages.

01:38:35

Don't go away. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

01:38:42

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

01:38:50

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

01:38:57

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire and the

01:39:02

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, New York and the

01:39:10

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and the

01:39:19

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona and the

01:39:26

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland and the

01:39:34

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida and the

01:39:42

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens Jr. of the

01:39:48

Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

01:39:54

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew

01:40:00

Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:40:12

Go to nasbible .com that's nasbible .com to place your order.

01:40:29

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love.

01:40:40

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York. Pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.

01:40:47

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the Dear Saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word.

01:41:03

And to enthusiastically proclaim Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

01:41:12

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

01:41:21

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church go to hopereformedli .net

01:41:27

that's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711 631 -696 -5711 631 -696 -5711

01:41:42

Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

01:42:05

We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.

01:42:11

Bhanu Gadhi, owner of three New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long Beach Chemists, and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.

01:42:23

Bhanu Gadhi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic.

01:42:30

Please contact Dr. Gadhi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media.

01:42:40

To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000.

01:42:46

That's 516 -354 -2000. Or order online at leesdrugsrx .com.

01:42:54

That's L -E -E -S drugs rx .com. Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.

01:43:08

If you love Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

01:43:18

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

01:43:23

Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

01:43:29

Dan is the president and founder of the historical organization The Historical Bible Society. Their mission, to foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God.

01:43:40

They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts, along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.

01:43:51

Patafuco, demonstrating the reliability of scripture. To advance the cause of the gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611

01:44:07

King James Bible. This 17th century hand -engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.

01:44:18

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the

01:44:24

Tower of Babel, and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe.

01:44:33

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before.

01:44:42

You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.

01:44:49

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

01:44:56

Thanks for helping to keep Ion Sharpen's Ion Radio on the air. ♪

01:45:14

Church is one foundation ♪ ♪ It's Jesus Christ, her law ♪

01:45:22

Since 2007, Anchored in Truth Ministries has hosted the annual True Church Conference at Grace Life Church of the

01:45:29

Shoals in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. This conference began as a training conference for pastors and church leaders who are striving to build true, biblically healthy churches.

01:45:38

Conference themes have included church discipline, repentance, discipleship, conversion, hyper -Calvinism, the family, the doctrine of sin, and the pretenders.

01:45:50

Anchored in Truth Ministries would like to invite you to the 2022 True Church Conference, which will be held from February 17th through the 20th.

01:45:58

The theme of the conference will be healthy body life in the local church, specifically as it pertains to biblical church discipline, biblical counseling, biblical conflict resolution, and protecting the sheep from savage wolves.

01:46:12

The scheduled speakers for the conference are Daryl Harrison, Virgil Walker, Jeff Knoblett, Jonathan Sims, Richard Caldwell, David Miller, and Barry King.

01:46:22

For more information or to register for the conference, please visit anchoredintruth .org.

01:46:28

That's anchoredintruth .org. And click on the True Church Conference tab at the top of the page.

01:46:34

Hope to see you there. As a mother,

01:46:45

I was looking for a magazine that would include devotionals that I could quickly do before school and had theology and doctrine made very simple for children to understand that they could read themselves or I could walk them through.

01:47:01

There's tiered content so that you can go to the older group and learn more or go to a younger section and it's even more simple.

01:47:09

Join us on our journey in developing our magazine entitled Ignited by the

01:47:14

Word, which engages and ignites the hearts of our children and young people in their walk with God.

01:47:22

Order Ignited by the Word for your home today at ignitedbytheword .org.

01:47:28

Learn more information and subscribe now at ignitedbytheword .org and receive your first two issues free and put good literature in your children's hands.

01:47:49

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

01:47:54

I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

01:48:01

And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

01:48:08

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

01:48:18

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

01:48:24

Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in Italy used for my

01:48:33

Nestle All in 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a

01:48:40

French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

01:48:51

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

01:49:01

For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com.

01:49:09

That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Linbrook Baptist Church on 225

01:49:28

Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a

01:49:35

Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

01:49:40

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

01:49:48

We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.

01:49:54

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

01:50:01

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

01:50:08

Or visit linbrookbaptist .org. That's linbrookbaptist .org. Dr. Nettles, going back to our listener,

01:50:16

Andrew in Avon Lake, Ohio, do you know of anything that was deficient in Spurgeon's theology because he did not attend seminary?

01:50:26

No, I don't know of anything deficient in his theology. Every time I read him, I know he knows more theology than I do because, and I've got a

01:50:35

PhD from a Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. And you are a professor. Yeah, and I've taught for, as you said, 38 years and then even beyond that.

01:50:44

But I find him insightful. I find him stimulating. I find it is amazing the way that he can speak of orthodox doctrines and historical theology within the framework of his preaching.

01:51:00

I think that his ability to convert sophisticated theology into passionate preaching is amazing.

01:51:12

So - And he started a minister's academy, didn't he? Oh, yes. Yeah, he did.

01:51:17

He started at the, prior to the time that Bosch started

01:51:24

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville. And by the end of the century, it had graduated both three or four times as many students as Southern had.

01:51:35

So it wasn't that he was against theological education. It just was something that did not suit him at the time.

01:51:43

And he wanted to make sure that it was an education that was clearly focused on the preparing of men for ministry in local churches.

01:51:55

But as I said at the beginning, if you go through his sermons, it is amazing how you could line up just all the pivotal doctrines of systematic theology and confessional theology, all the way from the

01:52:09

Creed of Nicaea up to the Second London Confession, and how all of those doctrines appear and sometimes appear in the very words in which they are present in the confessions themselves.

01:52:23

And so I don't detect any kind of, any kind of lack of Spurgeon's knowledge of theology.

01:52:37

There's no deficiency in what he does. We have

01:52:43

B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who asks, I read the booklet that Chris mentioned earlier called

01:52:52

The Defense of Calvinism by Charles Spurgeon. And in that booklet, he adamantly opposes and rejects the notion that any infant dying in infancy would be in hell.

01:53:04

That seems to be at odds with what most Reformed Baptist churches believe today.

01:53:10

Most would say that they are agnostic on the issue. They don't really know because they don't think the

01:53:15

Bible gives us sufficient information. What is your view on that? And is Spurgeon at odds with the greater part of Reformed history on that?

01:53:25

He seems to be unaware that any great number of true Calvinists believe that.

01:53:33

Yeah, well, the way the questioner has presented Spurgeon's view is certainly accurate.

01:53:39

And I've read him that in sermons several different places. And he believes that the infants dying in infancy were covered by the blood of Christ.

01:53:49

He doesn't reject their depravity. He doesn't reject the fact that they are children of Adam and that they're corrupt in nature and that should

01:53:57

God so will, he could very well have damned all of them. But he seems to receive the statement of the second line of confession that said elect infants dying in infancy are saved by the grace of God, the blood of Christ and so forth.

01:54:16

And the question there is which elect infants dying in infancy are, which infants dying in infancy are elect?

01:54:25

None of them can hear the gospel. None of them can understand the gospel. So it doesn't matter if they're the children of believers or if they're children of pagans.

01:54:35

And Spurgeon just believed that all infants dying in infancy that are elect and they're saved by the provisions that Christ has made.

01:54:45

Now, could you be a little bit clearer? Did he not believe that an infant would not die in infancy unless it was of the elect?

01:54:58

Probably so. And that would be the foundation of his believing that all infants dying in infancy were saved.

01:55:06

I happen to agree with him on that, by the way. What's that? I happen to agree with him on that, by the way.

01:55:12

Yeah, I have to plead my personal position. I have to plead that I'm agnostic on it.

01:55:19

I don't think that we actually can know that personally. I think that it is a just thing for God to condemn all the sons of Adam that we're,

01:55:29

Ephesians 2 says that we're by nature, children of wrath. And so by nature, we deserve wrath.

01:55:36

David said, behold, I was shapen in iniquity and in sin my mother conceived me. And so there would be no injustice in God.

01:55:44

Oh, of course. Infants. Oh yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly. I'm not like the

01:55:50

Pelagianists who believe that infants were innocent or are innocent. I don't believe that at all.

01:55:57

But I just, it seems to me every reference to someone being cast into hell in the scriptures always describes willful volition of rejecting

01:56:10

Christ's law and so on. Yeah, well, I think that's a strong argument because whenever you do have those descriptions of who's going to hell, it's though it even lists the sins they've committed of which are always violations of the moral law of God or the sin of unbelief, which is foundational.

01:56:32

So I think that is a strong argument. And that's the reason probably

01:56:37

I would say I'm agnostic on it. I would hope that all infants dying in infancy are among the elect.

01:56:45

Now, how can our listeners get ahold of you if they want to ask you further questions? Should they email me and I'll refer them to you or you have a website?

01:56:53

Tell us how our listeners can get in touch with you. Yeah, I don't have a website, but I do have an email address.

01:57:00

And the easiest one would just be the email address I have at my seminary where I'm still considered a senior professor there.

01:57:10

And so it would be tnettles at sbts .edu.

01:57:17

So that's my first initial, my last name, tnettles at, and then it's one of these education addresses that has the initials of the institution, sbts,

01:57:29

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, dot edu. Thank you so much,

01:57:35

Dr. Nettles. In fact, if you could just wait about 30 seconds so I can give you a proper goodbye off the air.

01:57:42

I want to thank you so much for being such a phenomenal guest as you always are. I want to thank everybody who listened.

01:57:48

I want to thank especially those who took the time to write. I apologize to those who could not have their questions asked and answer on the air due to time restraints, but I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior than you are a sinner.