Don't Raise Good Kids; Raise Godly Adults - What it Means to Discipline Your Children | S6 E8

Consistency and Unity in Christian Parenting

Welcome back to the point-taking podcast. This is like one of my favorite times of the week, I love doing this stuff. I have already watched The episode from last time that aired yesterday. I already watched it.

I watched it on the drive back from the camping trip yesterday with four other guys. So, you know, I hope you weren't driving. I wasn't. Well, no, you didn't listen. That's the thing though. That's the thing.

I watched it on David Abbott's phone and there were four guys in the truck and only counts as one view.

Like who's listening and then you got to click on the video and drag it on like go back and oh. Then I've got to go.

To get to get the comments up. Yeah Cynthia Bartmer commented on it. We got everyone watching it. I had someone comment on Matt Atkins podcast on Satanism this morning. Oh, yeah and I had someone else this morning talk about the public school and how that helped them understand like what I've got to protect them.

I've heard a lot of good things about that episode about how it changed their perspective and what they took away from is oh. It's my job. I can use whatever tool I want. But at the end of the day, it's my job whether I use a private school whether I do it at home.

Whether I use a county or a public school, it's my job. These are all tools to make that happen. So anyway, yeah today we were talking about the Christian and parenting. How should a Christian train or discipline? their children.

Whether that's punishment whether that's teaching so on and so forth and we have varied experience here. So we're gonna talk about that today. We have Evan Wiesner the man the myth the legend. We have Gwynn Shipley aka mom just a pastor just has my mom and then we have Regular favorite host Anna.

I've heard a lot of things people like yeah.

There's this one podcast that didn't have you in it and I didn't watch. I was like.

Well, you should still watch the podcast like I'm not I told you know the be all end all our views go down when you're.

Not there. I appreciate you. Well, I'm definitely gonna actually watch this next podcast that I was on last week.

It was me hunter and Mike Burkett. I mean the staying on topic thing didn't have. It's like that one time when we first started and it was Amy Elena Carissa.

It was the first time that I was on. Don't air it I told. I told pastors like do not.

And we should have all four of them. I'd take some in vigilance. How'd it go? My favorite one was Anna. She takes make said pastor. I was honest. We tried. I was honest with him. Elena said when the Podcast was over which lasted an hour and a half John said so what was the topic and he had?

He sat in here, that's awesome. He said I guess what was the topic no one knows.

So the D and really quick and then we can go on the D &D episode that we did a couple of weeks ago Dungeons and Dragons. Yes, you know that I asked a little how many how much or how many quotes of Monty Python?

Did you have to cut out because I felt like that was the majority. He's like Not a decent amount in there and then there are some other ones he's like, you know, I kept all the Lord of the Rings ones.

Like that was the majority of it is so here's what I'd like to do. We're gonna start with something Anna's done before a little bit of an encouragement say something that made you joyful or grateful or thankful.

That's happened here recently. Something that you can look back and say I'm really thankful and grateful for that it brought joy to me. So I'll go and then Anna will go and then we'll have our guest mom and Evan go so I'll go first.

I Got to go on this camping trip with the men this past week. And the reason why is because I've been pretty bummed because you know, I'm taking somebody's that's okay. There's power and repetition. We as a church, we're supposed to be in Israel right now.

That's where we're supposed to be as of yesterday. It was supposed to be in Jerusalem and we're not there now, obviously. Based on recent news reports that is the Lord provision, but still I was pretty upset past week.

But I got to go on the men's camping trip and I had a great time I laughed a Lot. I had fun. We caught a lot of fish. We ate good. It was good fellowship. So I'm very thankful that I never saw a cloud in two and a half days and I'd see a single cloud heard.

It got really cold Friday. No morning. You heard that from those who don't know how to camp. It felt wonderful. It was 30 degrees. It does not play in those mountains anyway whether Next year you're coming with me.

Yeah planet where I'm not at work. No, I'll just tell your chief it is what it is. No, sure. That's how that works. If you're watching this chief, you are an awesome man, but next year he's coming with me.

Yeah, that's how that works. So that brought me joy didn't go on that.

Well mine is similar in the fact that I was going to mention our women's retreat the weekend before last but also Just getting to fellowship with those women of all different walks of life, and then I was actually able to share a part of my testimony in the God's calling for obedience for our lives and how beautiful that changed and I got you know, I got slapped in the face with I Guess the reality of like how God has kept his promises like in the middle of all that and that was just very Humbling.

Because God calls you to do something and you're worried. Well, like what about this? What about this? What about this and you just worry about all the what-ifs and then he calls you to it and you can look back and like I was provided for in each of those times.

So I was literally slapped in the face with that in the middle of the testimony and was brought to tears. So that was and then I've had other people come up to me since then saying That their testimony is something that they're going through like where my testimony is like what they're going through right now is some of the same callings so that was just really nice to see God being able to use that too, so.

It was mean. Hmm either one of y 'all. Okay.

You know when you hit my age, I'm plus 50 60 All around me not at our church. But just in the world in general you see husbands and wives going further apart and I was blessed yesterday to have a husband that planned a day for he and I to be together and it didn't go as.

We expected our very first out and we hopped on the motorcycle and we were going to help another Family in our church move and then we had some fun things. We're gonna do together. And the bike broke down and you know the frustration of.

You know a couple of our sons came over helped us. We towed it to the to the house and instead of just being discouraged or pouting or the day ending there I had a husband that just regrouped and said, all right.

Let's hop in the truck and we're going to then we're gonna yeah, and we had such a great day. No, it's fun.

That's awesome. I always love seeing you talk about you and your husband. I love just the joy cuz like you said at this point in age a lot of people are separated. Divorced. Whatever empty nesters and they don't know how to have relationships.

So it's refreshing as. Say like a young person. Being married for you know, eight years. Just to see that like there is hope. Eight years up. Yeah, you're. I'm about to say you're eight years next month.

Eight years.

Cute. Intentional. You just have to be intentional. That's right. Yeah, I just think it's really refreshing.

All right, Evan what you got for us man and Wednesday was just a fantastic day. For for once it's been a very rarity, but I got to read with with my daughter and my wife. Mmm, but the highlight of the day was like we just spent the day together.

Like Nadine came up and said I want to work out mommy daddy. Let's go work out. So I knew the wiser when he said it was a fantastic day was gonna involve some type of exercise. Yeah. Yeah so we get to go outside and play outside and just have fun and she did burpees and didn't complain and Just had a fantastic and like all the food was good.

Just I know there's like one those moments. You're looking around you're like, I can't believe like this is my life. Yeah, it's just so awesome. Like my wife and my daughter and I are all here being sweaty and it's great.

I used him as an example of perspective and how everything's matter perspective a few months ago. I asked Evan who's coaching Parker one of our SOG fighters who is fighting for the belt May 11th for attitude MMA at the Well thought the Memphis music room anymore.

They changed the name again, whatever that place is on Shelby Oaks by the fire station. Anyway, that's for attitude MMA May 11th at any rate. It's a former Shriner's temple. Yeah, they changed the name.

Anyway, the point is I Asked Evan how the workout went because he worked out Parker at like 9 a .m. On a Saturday morning. And this was during fight camp the gruel, right and Parker had like worked out Monday Tuesday Thursday night Friday night Saturday morning.

Okay, and Evan goes. Oh man, it went great. It was awesome. It went this we did this we did this we did this we did this and Then I asked Parker how to go and goes dude. It was rough. Miserable well, it was the exact same thing.

Do you do the workouts with them? Yes.

Working out to not just the other day the fighters.

Hey when he tells them to do like the hundred weighted burpees and though though, I mean the weighted spice. He doesn't with them. He doesn't and he smiles and they're not I'm not.

When dad was training you for your fights that didn't do. No.

The most work he would do is pull the brake on the bike. I was fooling it or something. There's a lot of times. They're like, oh, this is hard. I'm like, yeah. Why don't you stop talking and get to moving?

I'm already done and y 'all like the thing I always bouncing like alright. So I'm 10 years older than most of you or older than that. Yeah 10 plus years and y 'all are all tired and I'm not and I have a family and we don't get to sit around and I Work full-time.

Yeah, like I didn't get to go, you know train five days this week said nothing else to do with my time. So it's just like come on like are you 34? 36 in June 36. Oh Man, you're 30. No, not yet. 29. Mm-hmm.

I'm 31. And then mom 50 plus 50. For the third time that's what she told me it was a good year you go back.

No, I can't count the years. So I know I'm over 50.

I guess you're 52. No, you're 51 cuz July is your birthday and.

Today, I just feel like you get to a certain age and you you really have to start thinking about how old you are. I'm someone asked me like a couple years ago. I'm like, hold on. Then I'm just I really have to think about it.

It's kind of embarrassing. I'll just keep it in fives.

Yeah, like I'm around there somewhere between 35 or 40. I just I round up.

So it's round town, yeah.

Teaching Consistency and Shared Standards

So biblical child rearing biblical Discipline biblical instruction. What are some thoughts where you're at in life where you've been in life? And it's a big question, but I think we should start with miss Gwynn big question if you could give One or two pieces of advice to a Christian family with young kids.

Like these are two or three biggest things. That if you do these things at least the other little things you can work out later. But these are like the biggest things like you have to get this, right?

What are some advice you would get to that?

Consistency. You first you have to be consistent once you set up a rule and you communicate the expectation to the child. Which should start before a year old. If you've waited till three or four you can catch up.

But you are way behind the game. You need to be consistent and then. Secondly would be that you and your husband need to be on the same page. Y 'all need to have already discussed it come up with a plan and agreed on what's going to be.

The standard I'm going on this second thing. I feel like that's a big hang-up in. Well, I mean both of them are really big hang-ups. But in particular like the husband and wife the parents being on the same team.

Because you have the moms who are usually oh you were too hard on him. And you know like all the all the things or you know, the the husband might complain about like well. You were too soft on him. You needed to do like X Y Z.

So I think that's yeah.

You can have that discussion when you're alone. I keep hitting this thing. I know I'm making noise. You can have that discussion when you're alone. But that should that discussion should never happen in front of the kids ever.

Happen in front of the kids because y 'all are the ones that are the team. You have brought these children into the world and you are rearing them, but they're not part of your team, right? They're part of your family, but they're not part of your team.

Y 'all are the team.

Mm-hmm. I would definitely agree with that. I got I had a situation where I was over the top to the point that Nadine was just crying. She's you know four half and She's distraught, but she can't process what I'm saying, and I'm mad and I'm yelling and I'm loud and wife's just close.

Hey, can I talk to you for a sec? Left she didn't she said I'm not trying to get in the way of whatever you're doing. But just so you know you have her, you know at a ten and she can't process what you're telling her.

And I was so mad cuz I knew she was right. But she I mean she did it so respectfully and it was like really humbling for me. So it kind of actually helped me because it was my blind spot. I was already frustrated so the fact that she Spoke love because she was on my team.

She didn't berate me for well, you know, you're loud and being mean she said well She's not gonna hear you to do this. You can go whichever way you want, but just so you know This is where you're at. That's a good way word it like like says if you're on the same team you always have a blind spot and that's the best part about being a team because when you say You're leaning too far to the left.

That's right. Yes. I'm gonna bring you back in balance.

Well, we've had to do that and our son's a year and a half and. Adorable, I mean, I think so, but I'm biased. I think he's pretty stinking cute. He looks just like his dad's.

Crazy what so one of our friends said. But he now has more hair than he does.

We have one of our friends it's like if you put if you put a beard on him he would look just like your husband and. But going back off of what Evan was saying about, you know, like being on the same team there was a particular instance where my husband had told our son to do something and he didn't do it or you know, like whatever it was and My husband didn't say anything to him and Or he said like if you do XYZ like you're gonna get a spanking, you know, whatever and then he ended up doing XYZ.

And then my husband didn't do anything and I looked at him and I said you and I kind of spoke under my breath. So like deep my son couldn't hear us and I'm like you you told him that if you did that again then he's gonna get a spank and he goes he's like, yeah, and he you know spanked him did whatever and.

So that's one thing. I always try it like in in Evans wife's case I always try to be respectful. It's like hey I'm not trying to undermine you and I'm not saying that you're doing XY and Z right or wrong.

But it's like this is kind of like he said with the blind spots. I think that's really helpful. But coming from like The wife's side you want to respect your husband especially if it's in front of your children because then they're gonna see that and then they're like.

I'm not gonna have to respect mine, especially a mom of boys as they age. That dad needs to have a strong male voice in that family. Because it is just part of natural our fleshly Tendencies for that young man to be becoming a man and wanting to lead but it's not his place to lead his mother.

Yeah, and so you really need that dad to be solid in that position. So that you're not having to go to your husband say hey I know I've shunned you and didn't want your help all these years, but now I can't control your children.

Yeah, and I need you to step up and then the kids are resistant to the dad because where has he been forever? He wasn't that's good. He wasn't a major role in it. So you've got to think about those things and a lot of times you've got this cute adorable, baby.

Who wants to think about when they're 13? Well, you need to yes, it's coming.

Raising Godly Adults Instead of Merely Good Kids

Well one thing that you've said before you're like, you know, I don't want to raise good kids. I want to raise godly adults. Exactly. And that's one. Wow sad again. I don't want to raise good kids. I want to raise godly adults.

Your mom lives in my head. Rent-free. Like. That's t-shirt worthy. Well and then to one thing that she mentions we need a Witton.

Keyboard. Y 'all can start having podcast slogan t-shirts of good comments.

We could do stickers right there stickers. Yeah, we could do stickers and stuff for water bottles you you make it happen but another thing that Gwen is mentioned to because there was a situation where I was struggling with Having our son be obedient in the moment.

We were trying to teach him to say like yes, ma 'am. Yes, sir. No, sir. No, ma 'am all that stuff and he was doing something and like I was having one of those mood swing Moments when I was like early pregnant, I wasn't feeling good you know, I was like first trimester very tired sick like all the things and He just like was not obeying and so I'd spanked him a couple of times.

And like also he was doing his crying kind of like Evan said like he was out of ten like nothing that I was going To do was gonna you know, whatever so I'm like, okay I'm very familiar with I'm going to put him in his room because she's like asked me one time before that.

Well, do you do like timeouts? Do you ever just put him in his room if he's acting a certain way that you don't approve of and I was like No, and she goes why not and I'm like, I've just never thought of that.

Like I didn't think that you could do that like at this age I'm like, I don't. I said it just never occurred to me and I brought it up to my husband. He's like I didn't think about that either like it just it never occurred to us.

So anyway, so that ended up happening. I put him in his room. Let him cool down a little bit and let me cool down I was literally sitting in my kitchen room crying like getting the kitchen floor crying.

Because I just had it and so I was like texting our accountability group Which she's a member of and I'm just like this is what's happening. I've spanked him so many times I feel like I'm just being a jerk right now.

Like I've tried doing timeouts I would give him a chance to obey. He would not obey. I'm like, okay You're going to sit in here for X amount of minutes, you know, like whatever and I would come back and try to do that I was like, I just don't know what else to do and your mom mentioned or asked me.

Does he understand that he's disobeying does he understand the requests that you're making of him and like can he follow that and I'm like Yes, and she's like then like you're doing sometimes you just have hard days with them and that made me feel a lot better because it Made me feel like, you know I wasn't failing because you know as oftentimes we feel like we fail as parents.

Especially if it's your first time. A lot of parents question. How do I know when my kid can understand? Yeah, how do I know when when I am communicating with them if your kid can sign that they want milk?

You they can communicate. Yeah, that's good.

I started I started telling my son No at like eight to nine months old because he would try to reach over and either touch the outlet. You know he had covers or he would try to pull on the curtain. I'd be like, no no, you know you're being sweet at that point like no.

No, don't touch. And then he would go over there and he would go like that and look at me and I'm like, okay. So, you know and that's the thing people are like, oh kids like they don't know my kids are smart.

Like I said, he was eight months old and he knew he still knows. Yes, he's too smart for his own good, let me just tell a little story real quick. I want this recording on the internet forever. He knows he's not supposed to touch the dishwasher.

I have knives and stuff that I put in there all that stuff. Don't tell me he did one of those pretend fall into it things. No.

I would be really mad if he did that because I don't want him to break my dishwasher. That's one of the reasons too why I don't allow him to touch it because I don't want to impress him on the door. You know, whatever.

I don't want him messing with the things that are in there, whether they're clean or dirty so he knows he's not supposed to touch it and He was kind of over there doing whatever and Reaching for it and I'm like, I always snap with him because that catches his nose.

It's not like I'm good. I'm good. I've gotten good with him. But I point to him and I'm like don't touch that and then so what he does is he you know Has a toy or something whatever he takes the toy and touches the toy To the dishwasher because he's not touching it.

But the toys touching it and I'm just like I said, okay, that's a spanking. I said that's a spanking but the thing is like They know that so early. He's a year and a half. He's a year and he was doing that before he's a year and a half and it's like they know.

Yes, so when people like kids don't know I'm like, I don't believe that I have a child.

But you're trying to discipline and stop the rebellion. Yes, and it's not just disobedience. It's rebellion. It's you know, the old. Was it uh, the old adage the old adage. Sit down. Well, I'm standing up on the inside like I you try to crush that before it gets that far.

Yeah, people like well, I have this problem with my five-year-old they talk back and Right or wrong my Tennessee is go. Well, you thought it was funny two years ago when they would know. You know, haha.

It wasn't funny. Like I wasn't gonna put up if if I won't put up with it at five. Why would I put up with it at three just because you thought it was cute. There's there's some things when it comes to disobedience.

It's for me. It's clear-cut. I'm not gonna put up with disobedience.

Sorry, you say that and that reminds me of something else that Gwen said to me because we were doing something with our son. She's got good things to say don't. I'm telling you she lives rent-free in my head.

She said You as a parent you demand obedience. Yeah, and so if your child's doing XYZ and they're not listening and like I had I Don't. I didn't send that to you. I meant to send that to you, too. I sent Gwen a an article that was written by John Piper like I don't know about like is that what you got?

Is that what you printed on? No, but I was like I have it on. I can pull it up on my phone. But he was talking about how pitiful it was to see Christian parents plead with their children for obedience.

Like will you please like will you please do this really please do that and it's like no like you are the one as the Parent you get to demand that obedience. So if they are not obedient to something It's because you haven't demanded them to be obedient to that and if you give them an inch they will take a mile.

Every kid is like that. Whether you think your child is perfect or not if they are, you know, tell me how you fix that but yeah, I believe it.

You know two things one. I Didn't realize this early on but I do now. There's levels to it so Step one is the kid complies. So you say sit down he sits down, but he's pouting and got an attitude about it.

He complied. He didn't obey but okay, that's step one, right? You know for for right now and all that does is hold off a spanking that's probably gonna come from your bad attitude later. You complied you didn't actually obey in your heart can prolong this.

Yeah, yeah, but you you complied for now that's complying. Okay. Let's use cleaning the room as an example. That's good example. So he goes and cleans it and you know, they cleaned up but they had an attitude about it.

They complied they didn't obey. Step two. Hey go clean your room. Yes, sir, and they go and. And they clean it they get halfway distracted through and need like several course questions, but they get it done.

Step three, you know, yes, sir, and they go and immediately do it and come back to you. But that's not the end and I didn't think about this. What's step four they do that without being asked because I know it's supposed to be clean before bedtime.

I mean, that's that's the end goal, right? Not that that has been achieved by me just to be clear.

Certainly has never. But what did I say with Naomi last week. Pastor is talking about how Unintelligent she was and I'm like, she's not. I was like, she's not done. I said she's not done.

She has um, she's pretty and has a nice personality. Yeah. I am just kidding. Naomi's not dumb. She is so cute less Aware of her surroundings than a but that's what I'll say. Yeah. Oblivious, but what I was gonna say earlier about what you just said about and kind of you have and about demanding obedience.

This is something that I realized a while back. Luckily early enough in my parenting journey. Okay, so there's X amount of passages in the Bible about parenting and that's enough but Father or Heavenly Father is one of the main titles of God so I have not just the Didactic not just the explicit teachings of the fathers do this Wives do this whatever but I also have the example, okay.

Yeah, so that's that's what's on my paper.

Well, then I'll just say this and shut up and let you read your paper and my example is this. Okay. What how do I see God as a father? Well, I never see him. Alright, please. Would you mind if you could?

Put away the the idols. Could you mind doing that for me? Can it kind of makes me feel bad? I've never seen that. I have never seen that exactly. No what I do see is Him far more joyful and rewarding obedience and far more grieved and punishing.

You know, yeah, he he the Bible says in Luke The Heavenly Father loves to give good gifts to his children. And I'm like, that's me. We all love getting gifts. All right, it's so fun, but Even though it grieves him he does it because he's committed the justice so.

Like his mercies are new every morning his love endurance for a thousand generations, but he will not. The guilty won't go unpunished. So that's kind of the like the example I see of him like oh, okay.

So I don't just have the teachings. I have the examples of God as the Heavenly Father and I see him with his children. That's exactly what he does. He's really consistent and he's very consistent. He never changes.

He loves you enough to give you what you need not what you want, right? I feel like as a parent that's like there's a lot of times where I'm tired. You don't need another stuffed animal from this. Yeah, you don't need if we fill the house up anymore, or I'm tired.

I don't want to put up with it. I should I could just let it slide. Yeah, but it becomes the question of like, well, do I love her enough to give her what she needs not what she wants. It's not about Like there's a member that on the couch, oh man, yeah, that's good.

There's a lot of times that like, you know this like We were at a Mexican restaurant. I told her said You need to stop or do you want to spank and she goes? Yes, I want to spank him. So now I put the words out and I have to answer for what but it became a question of well.

You tried me and I can't lose. This is like when you wrestle a puppy a boy puppy when they're young if you let them win. They always think they can do anything. Yeah, but then it's like, all right. Well you in no way do I want to go through with this, but I lay it out.

These are the rules and the standard doesn't change. Well, she's tired. Okay. Well the standard doesn't change, right? Is my job is give you like disobedience? There's a one the old guys that kind of taught me a lot growing up.

He made a comment said the dad is the rock of the foundation in which the family's built on so as we push and grow that's half the thing is being consistent and being the rock for your daughter or your kiddo.

It just I don't know you got to stay consistent with it, but without that rock I mean things shift all the time and there's not a standard. Yeah, I have to well.

Then your kids don't know what to do and it's and they'll push boundaries more and more and more and they always do.

I mean, but they're always gonna try boundaries even the ones they know they're not allowed to cross. There's still time. Don't don't pick your sister up and Seconds later. You're like, all right. I just told you not to pick her up.

There's been a spanking or two and a sprint or two and a push-up or two in the Shipley house for that one. Though I'll tell you what she's learned a lesson finally. She has not picked up. What's my son's name Silas?

Wow, it's been a day. She has not picked up Silas a single time. We've got it this round.

The boys will be about two years apart and so I'm just curious to see how that's gonna go.

But please don't we figure that one out. Finally. It's a good thing. Children are durable. Yeah. Like very durable. It's a good thing and it's not even with each other like you're holding him when you turn around.

Oh, there was a door frame. I can't tell you how many times.

Well with the size of your son's head, I'm surprised that doesn't happen every day.

Born, I can't tell you how many times I hit his head in doorways and now it's like with me being pregnant. Belly is getting bigger obviously like the longer I'm pregnant and I've been starting to hit my stomach on things now because I'm not used to it, but yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've Accidentally hit my kids head on the doorway.

I'm okay. Don't worry about.

Discipline as Training, Not Mere Punishment

But did you want to share that scripture that sure pastor just I was written and this kind of goes to. I think we're gonna Get to this in our discussion about the different forms of discipline because it's not always about punishment.

Yes, but with that in mind one of the reasons to to discipline your children is to raise godly adults, but you are the example of Obedience of how they should obey God. They learn that from how they obey their parents.

That's the initial learning of that. And so I wanted to share Hebrews 12, and this is 4 through 11. So it's kind of a long passage, but I'll read It's the Bible and your struggle against sin you have not resisted to the point of shedding blood and You have completely forgotten this word of encouragement.

This addresses you as a father addresses his son. It says my son do not make light of the Lord's discipline and do not lose heart when he rebukes you. Because the Lord disciplines the ones he loves and he chastens everyone.

He accepts us his son. Endure hardship as discipline. Discipline. God is treating you as his children for what children are not disciplined by their father. If you are not disciplined and everyone undergoes discipline, then you are not legitimate not true sons and daughters at all.

Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we were Respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the father of spirit and live? They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best.