Don't Raise Good Kids; Raise Godly Adults - What it Means to Discipline Your Children | S6 E8

Welcome back to the point -taking podcast This is like one of my favorite times of the week.

I love doing this stuff. I have already watched The episode from last time that aired yesterday.

I already watched it I watched it on the drive back from the camping trip yesterday with four other guys

So, you know, I hope you weren't driving. I wasn't well, no, you didn't listen. That's the thing though. That's the thing

I watched it on David Abbott's phone and there were four guys in the truck It only counts as one view but you never know like who's listening and learning then you got to click on the video and drag

It on like go back and oh, then I've got to go To get to get the comments

Cynthia Bartmer commented on it Watching it. I had someone comment on Matt Atkins podcast on Satanism this morning

Oh, yeah And I had someone else this morning talk about the public school and how that helped them understand Like what

I got to protect them from I've heard a lot of good things about that episode About how it changed their perspective and what they took away from is.

Oh, it's my job I can use whatever tool I want But at the end of the day, it's my job whether I use a private school whether I do it at home

Whether I use a county or a public school, it's my job. These are all tools to make that happen

Awesome So anyway, yeah today we were talking about the Christian and parenting.

How should a Christian train or discipline? their children Whether that's punishment whether that's teaching so on so forth and we have varied experience here

So we're gonna talk about that today. We have Evan Wiesner the man the myth the legend

We have Gwynn Shipley aka mom Just a pastor just has my mom and then we have

Regular favorite host Anna. I've heard a lot of things people like yeah There's this one podcast that didn't have you in it and I didn't watch it

I was like what you should still watch the podcast Like I'm not I told you you know the be all end all our views go down when you're not there

I appreciate you. Well, I'm definitely gonna actually watch this next podcast that I was on last week It was me

Hunter and Mike Burkett. I mean there's staying on topic thing didn't have It's like that one time when we first started and it was

Amy Elena Carissa And you it was the first time that I was on don't air it I told

I told pastors like do not we did it and we should have all four of them I'd take some in vigilance and how'd it go?

My favorite one was Anna. She takes me said pastor We tried I was honest with him

Elena said when the podcast was over which lasted an hour and a half John said so what was the topic and he?

No one knows so the D and really quick and then we can go on the D &D episode that we did a couple of Dungeons and Dragons.

Yes, you didn't know that. I asked Lowell how many how much or how many quotes of Monty Python did you have to cut out because I felt like that was the majority he's like Not a decent amount in there and then there are some other ones he's like, you know

I kept all the Lord of the Rings ones Like that was the majority of it is so here's what

I'd like to do We're gonna start with something Anna's done before a little bit of an encouragement say something that made you joyful or grateful or thankful That's happened here recently

Something that you can look back and say I'm really thankful and grateful for that it brought joy to me So I'll go and then

Anna will go and then we'll have our guest mom and Evan go so I'll go first.

I Was very grateful That I got to go on this camping trip with the men this past weekend the reason why is because I've been pretty bummed because You know,

I'm taking somebody's that's okay. There's power and repetition We as a church, we're supposed to be in Israel right now

That's where we're supposed to be as of yesterday. It was supposed to be in Jerusalem And we're not there now, obviously

Based on recent news reports that is the Lord provision, but still I was pretty upset past week

But I got to go on the men's camping trip and I had a great time. I laughed a Lot I had fun.

We caught a lot of fish. We ate good. It was good fellowship So I'm very thankful that I never saw a cloud in two and a half days

I didn't see a single cloud heard it got really cold Friday. No, you heard that from those who don't know how to camp

It felt wonderful. It was 30 degrees It does not play in those mountains anyway, it's perfect camping weather.

Yeah, that's you Next year you're coming with me. Yeah planet where I'm not at work. No, I'll just tell your chief it is what it is

Sure, that's how that works if you're watching this chief you are an awesome man, but next year he's coming with me

Yeah, that's how that works. So that brought me joy didn't go on that Well, mine is similar in the fact that I was going to mention our women's retreat the weekend before last but also just getting to fellowship with those women of all different walks of life and then

I was actually able to share a Part of my testimony in God's calling for obedience for our lives and how beautiful that changed and I got you know,

I got slapped in the face with I Guess the reality of like how

God has kept his promises like in the middle of all that and that was just very humbling

Because God calls you to do something and you're worried. Well, like what about this? What about this? What about this and you just worry about all the what -ifs and then he calls you to it and you can look back and like I was provided for in each of those times

So I was literally slapped in the face with that and then all the testimony was brought to tears So that was and then

I've had other people come up to me since then saying That their testimony is something that they're going through like they're my testimony

It's like what they're going through right now is some of the same callings So that was just really nice to see God being able to use that too.

So Who's me hmm either one of y 'all Okay You know when you hit my age,

I'm plus 50 All around me not at our church

But just in the world in general you see husbands and wives going further apart and I was blessed yesterday

To have a husband that planned a day for he and I to be together and it didn't go

As we expected our very first out and we hopped on the motorcycle and we were going to help another

Family in our church move and then we had some fun things. We're gonna do together and the bike broke down and You know the frustration of you know a couple of our sons came over helped us we towed it to the to the house and Instead of just being discouraged or pouting or the day ending there

I had a husband that just regrouped and said all right Let's hop in the truck and we're going to we're gonna yeah, and we had such a great day.

No, it's fun That's awesome. I always love seeing you talk about you and your husband I love just the joy because like you said at this point in age a lot of people are separated divorced

Whatever empty nesters and they don't know how to have relationships. So it's refreshing as Say like a young person

Being married for you know, eight years Just to see that like there is hope eight years.

Oh, yeah, you're I'm about to say you're eight years next month Cute Intentional you just have to be intentional.

That's right. Yeah, I just think it's really refreshing All right, what you got for us, man? Wednesday was just a fantastic day

For For once it's been a very rarity, but I got to read with with my daughter and my wife

Mmm, but the highlight of the day was like we just spent the day together Like Nadine came up and said

I want to work out mommy. Daddy. Let's go work out So the wiser when he said it was a fantastic day was gonna involve some type of exercise.

Yeah. Yeah so we get to go outside and play outside and just have fun and she did burpees and didn't complain and Just had a fantastic and like all the food was good.

Just I know there's like one those moments You're looking around you're like, I can't believe like this is my life

Yeah, it's just so awesome. Like my wife and my daughter and I are all here being sweaty and it's great I used him as an example of perspective and how everything is a matter of perspective a few months ago

I asked Evan who's coaching Parker one of our SOG fighters who is fighting for the belt

May 11th for attitude MMA at the Well, it's not the Memphis music room anymore. They changed the name again, whatever that place is on Shelby Oaks by the fire station

Anyway, that's for attitude MMA May 11th at any rate. This is former Shriner's temple.

Yeah, they changed the name. Anyway, the point is I Asked Evan how the workout went because he worked out

Parker at like 9 a .m on a Saturday morning and This was during fight camp the gruel right and Parker had like worked out

Monday Tuesday Thursday night Friday night Saturday morning Okay, and Evan goes.

Oh man, it went great. It was awesome. It went this we did this we did this we did this we did this and Then I asked

Parker how to go and goes dude. It was rough Miserable well, it was the exact same thing.

Do you do the workouts with them? Yeah, and some okay, so he's working out to not just the other day the fighters

Hey when he tells them to do like the hundred weighted burpees and though I mean the way did spice dress

He doesn't with them. He doesn't and he smiles and they're not I'm not

When dad was training you for your fights that didn't do No The most work he would do is pull the brake on the bike

I was fooling it or something There's a lot of times. They're like, oh, this is hard. I'm like, yeah Why don't you stop talking and get to moving?

I'm already done and y 'all like the thing I always bouncing like alright So I'm 10 years older than most of you or older than that Yeah 10 plus years and y 'all are all tired and I'm not and I have a family and we don't get to sit around and I work full -time

I Didn't get to go, you know train five days this week said nothing else to do with my time

So it's just like come on like are you 34? 36 in June 36. Oh Man, you're 30.

No, not yet. 29. Mm -hmm. I'm 31 and then mom 50 plus 50

She's 21 For the third time that's what she told me it was a good year you go back

No, I can't count the years. So I know I'm over 50 I guess you're 52.

No, you're 51 cuz July is your birthday and Today, I just feel like you get to a certain age and you you really have to start thinking about how old you are

I'm someone asked me like a couple years ago. I'm like, hold on Then I'm just I really have to think about it.

It's kind of embarrassing. I just keep it in fives Yeah, we got around there somewhere between 35 or 40.

I just I round up So what's around him? Yeah, well, yeah so biblical child rearing biblical

Discipline biblical instruction. What are some thoughts where you're at in life where you've been in life?

And it's a big question, but I think we should start with miss Gwynn big question if you could give

One or two pieces of advice to a Christian family with young kids

Like these are two or three biggest things But if you do these things at least the other little things you can work out later

But these are like the biggest things like you have to get this, right? What are some advice you would get to that?

consistency you first you have to be consistent once you set up a rule and you communicate the expectation to the child

Which should start before a year old if you've waited till three or four you can catch up But you are way behind the game you need to be consistent and then

Secondly would be that you and your husband need to be on the same page Y 'all need to have already discussed it come up with a plan and agreed on what's going to be the standard

I'm going on this second thing. I feel like that's a big hang -up in Well, I mean both of them are really big hang -ups

But in particular like the husband and wife the parents being on the same team Because you have the moms who are usually oh you were too hard on him

And you know like all the all the things or you know the the husband might complain about like well

You were too soft on him. You needed to do like XY and Z so I think that's yeah You can have that discussion when you're alone.

I keep hitting this thing I know I'm making noise you can have that discussion when you're alone But that should that discussion should never happen in front of the kids ever

Happen in front of the kids because y 'all are the ones that are the team You have brought these children into the world and you are rearing them, but they're not part of your team, right?

They're part of your family, but they're not part of your team. Y 'all are the team Mmm. I would definitely agree with that.

I got I had a situation where I was over the top to the point that Nadine was just crying.

She's you know four half and She's distraught, but she can't process what I'm saying, and I'm mad and I'm yelling and I'm loud and my wife's just close

Hey, can I talk to you for a sec? Left she didn't she said I'm not trying to get in the way of whatever you're doing

But just so you know you have her you know at a 10, and she can't process what you're telling her And I was so mad cuz

I knew she was right But she I mean she did it so respectfully and it was like really humbling for me

So it kind of actually helped me because it was my blind spot. I was already frustrated so the fact that she

Spoke love because she was on my team. She didn't berate me for well, you know, you're loud and being mean

She said well, she's not gonna hear you to do this. You can go whichever way you want But just so you know, this is where you're at That's a good way word it like like says if you're on the same team

You always have a blind spot and that's the best part about being a team because when you say Oh, you're leaning too far to the left.

That's right. Yes. I'm gonna bring you back in balance well, we've had to do that and our son's a year and a half and Adorable, I mean,

I think so, but I'm biased. I think he's pretty stinking cute. He looks just like his dad's Crazy what so one of our friends said but he now has more hair than he does

We have one of our friends it's like if you put if you put a beard on him he would look just like your husband and But going back off of what

Evan was saying about, you know, like being on the same team there was a particular instance where my husband had told our son to do something and he didn't do it or you know, like whatever it was and My husband didn't say anything to him and Or he said like if you do

XYZ like you're gonna get a spanking, you know, whatever and then he ended up doing XYZ And then my husband didn't do anything and I looked at him and I said you and I kind of spoke under my breath

So like deep my son couldn't hear us and I'm like you you told him that if you did that again then he's gonna get a spank and he goes he's like, yeah, and he you know spanked him did whatever and So that's one thing.

I always try it like in in Evans wife's case I always try to be respectful. It's like hey

I'm not trying to undermine you and I'm not saying that you're doing XYZ right or wrong But it's like this is kind of like he said with the blind spots.

I think that's really helpful. But coming from like The wife's side you want to respect your husband especially if it's in front of your children because then they're gonna see that and then they're like I'm not gonna have to respect my especially a mom of boys as they age

That dad needs to have a strong male voice in that family Because it is just part of natural our fleshly

Tendencies for that young man to be becoming a man and wanting to lead but it's not his place to lead his mother

Yeah, and so you really need that dad to be solid in that position

So that you're not having to go to your husband say hey I know I've shunned you and didn't want your help all these years

But now I can't control your children Yeah, and I need you to step up and then the kids are resistant to the dad because where has he been forever?

He wasn't that's good. He wasn't a major role in it So you've got to think about those things and a lot of times you've got this cute adorable, baby

Who wants to think about when they're 13? Well, you need to yes, it's coming

Well one thing that you've said before you're like, you know, I don't want to raise good kids I want to raise godly adults exactly and that's one

Wow again. I don't want to raise good kids I want to raise godly adults your mom lives in my head rent -free like That's t -shirt worthy well and then to one thing that she mentioned yes, we need a

Witton t -shirt He's got a keyboard

Y 'all can start having podcast slogan t -shirts of good comments Stickers yeah, we could do stickers and stuff for water bottles you you make it happen but another thing that one is mentioned too because there was a situation where I was struggling with Having our son be obedient in the moment.

We were trying to teach him to say like yes, ma 'am. Yes, sir No, sir. No, ma 'am all that stuff and he was doing something and like I was having one of those moods

Moments when I was like early pregnant, I wasn't feeling good you know, I was like first trimester very tired sick like all the things and He just like was not obeying and so I'd spanked him a couple of times

And like also he was doing his crying kind of like Evan said like he was out of ten like nothing that I was going

To do was gonna you know, whatever so I'm like, okay, I'm very familiar I'm going to put him in his room because she's like asked me one time before that.

Well, do you do like timeouts? Do you ever just put him in his room if he's acting a certain way that you don't approve of and I was like No, and she goes why not and I'm like,

I've just never thought of that Like I didn't think that you could do that like at this age I'm like,

I don't I said it just never occurred to me and I brought it up to my husband He's like I didn't think about that either like it just it never occurred to us

So anyway, so that ended up happening. I put him in his room Let him cool down a little bit and let me cool down I was literally sitting in my kitchen room crying like getting the kitchen floor crying

Because I just had it and so I was like texting our accountability group But she's a member of and I'm just like this is what's happening.

I've spanked him so many times I feel like I'm just being a jerk right now. Like I've tried doing timeouts

I would give him a chance to obey he would not obey. I'm like, okay You're going to sit in here for X amount of minutes, you know, like whatever and I would come back and try to do that I was like,

I just don't know what else to do and your mom mentioned or asked me Does he understand that he's disobeying does he understand the request that you're making of him and like can he follow that and I'm like Yes, and she's like then like you're doing sometimes you just have hard days with them

And that made me feel a lot better because it made me feel like you know I wasn't failing because you know as oftentimes we feel like we fail as parents

Especially if it's your first time a lot of parents question. How do I know when my kid can understand?

Yeah, how do I know when when I am communicating with them if your kid can sign that they want milk

You they can communicate. Yeah, that's good I started I started telling my son

No at like eight to nine months old because he would try to reach over and either touch the outlet

You know he had covers or he would try to pull on the curtain I'd be like no no, you know you being sweet at that point like no No, don't touch and then he would go over there and he would go like that and look at me and I'm like Okay, so, you know and that's the thing people are like, oh kids like they don't know my kids are smart

Like I said, he was eight months old and he knew he still knows Yes, he's too smart for his own good.

Let me just tell a little story real quick I want this recording right forever. He knows he's not supposed to touch the dishwasher

I have knives and stuff that I put in there all that stuff. Don't tell me he did one of those pretend fall into it No Break my dishwasher

That's one of the reasons to why I don't allow him to touch it because I don't want to press him on the door You know, whatever. I don't want him messing with the things that are in there whether they're clean or dirty so he knows he's not supposed to touch it and he was kind of over there doing whatever and Reaching for it and I'm like,

I always snap with him because that catches his good I've gotten good with him

But I point to him and I'm like don't touch that and then so what he does is he you know

It has a toy or something. Whatever. He takes the toy and touches the toy To the dishwasher because he's not touching it

But the toys touching it and I'm just like I said, okay, that's a spank. I said that's a spanking But the thing it's like they know that so early.

He's a year and a half He's a year and he was doing that before he's a year and a half and it's like they know Yes, so when people like kids don't know

I'm like, I don't believe that I have a child But you're trying to discipline and stop the rebellion

Yes, and it's not just disobedience. It's rebellion. It's you know, the old

Was it a the old adage the old adage sit down? Well, I'm standing up on the inside like You try to crush that before it gets that far.

Yeah, people like well, I have this problem with my five -year -old. They talk back in Right or wrong my

Tennessee is go. Well, you thought it was funny two years ago when they would know, you know

It wasn't funny like I wasn't gonna put up if if I won't put up with it at five

Why would I put up with it at three? Just because you thought it was cute There's there's some things when it comes to disobedience.

It's for me. It's clear -cut. I'm not gonna put up with disobedience Sorry, you say that and that reminds me of something else that Gwen said to me because we were doing something with our son

She's got good things to say though. I'm telling you. She lives rent -free in my head. She said You as a parent you demand obedience yeah, and so if your child's doing

XYZ and they're not listening and like I had um, I Don't I didn't send that to you.

I meant to send that to you, too I sent Gwen a an article that was written by John Piper like I don't know about like is that what you got?

Is that what you printed on? No, but I was like I have it on I can pull it up on my phone Um, but he was talking about how pitiful it was to see

Christian parents plead with their children for obedience like will you please like will you please do this really please do that and it's like no like you are the one as The parent you get to demand that obedience

So if they are not obedient to something it's because you haven't demanded them to be obedient to that and if you give them an inch

They will take a mile Every kid is like that Whether you think your child is perfect or not if they are, you know, tell me how you fix that but yeah,

I believe it you know two things one I I didn't realize this early on but I do now

There's levels to it so Step one is the kid complies

So you say sit down he sits down, but he's pouting and got an attitude about it. He complied

He didn't obey but okay, that's step one, right? You know for for right now and all that does is hold off a spanking that's probably gonna come from your bad attitude later

You complied you didn't actually obey in your heart can prolong this. Yeah. Yeah, but you you complied for now that's complying

Okay Let's use cleaning the room as an example. That's good example So he goes and cleans it and you know, they cleaned up but they had an attitude about it

They complied they didn't obey. Step two. Hey go clean your room Yes, sir, and they go and And they clean it they get halfway distracted through and need like several course questions, but they get it done

Step three, you know, yes, sir, and they go and immediately do it and come back to you But that's not the end and I didn't think about this

What's step four they do that without being asked because I know it's supposed to be clean before bedtime I mean, that's that's the end goal, right?

Not that that has been achieved by me just to be clear Certainly has never but what did

I say with Naomi last week pastor is talking about how Unintelligent she was and I'm like, she's not

I was like, she's not done. I said she's not done She has um, she's pretty and has a nice personality. Yeah.

I am just kidding. Naomi's not dumb. She is so cute less Aware of her surroundings than a but that's what

I'll say Oblivious, but what I was gonna say earlier about what you just said about and kind of you have and about demanding obedience

This is something that I realized a while back Luckily early enough in my parenting journey

Okay, so there's X amount of passages in the Bible about parenting and that's enough but Father or Heavenly Father is one of the main titles of God So I have not just the didactic not just the explicit teachings of the father's do this

Wives do this whatever but I also have the example, okay Yeah, so that's that's what's on my paper

Well, then I'll just say this and shut up and let you read your paper and my example is this Okay What how do

I see God as a father? Well, I never see him Alright, please. Would you mind if you could?

Put away the the idols. Could you mind doing that for me? Can it kind of makes me feel bad?

I've never seen that I have never seen that exactly. No what I do see is

Him far more joyful and rewarding obedience and far more grieved and punishing

You know, yeah, he he the Bible says in Luke The Heavenly Father loves to give good gifts to his children

And I'm like, that's me. We all love getting gifts. All right, it's so fun, but Even though it grieves him he does it because he's committed the justice so Like his mercies are new every morning his love endurance for a thousand generations, but he will not

The guilty won't go unpunished. So that's kind of the like the example I see of him like oh, okay

So I don't just have the teachings I have the examples of God as the Heavenly Father and I see him with his children.

That's exactly what he does He's really consistent and he's very consistent. He never changes

He loves you enough to give you what you need not what you want, right? I feel like as a parent that's like there's a lot of times where I'm tired

You don't need another stuffed animal from this. Yeah, you don't need if we fill the house up anymore, or I'm tired

I don't want to put up with it. I should I could just let it slide Yeah, but it becomes the question of like well, do

I love her enough to give her what she needs not what she wants It's not about Like there's a member that on the couch, oh man, yeah, that's good.

There's a lot of times that like, you know this like We were at a

Mexican restaurant. I told her said You need to stop or do you want to spank and she goes? Yes, I want to spank him

Oh, so now I put the words out and I have to answer for what but it became a question of well

You tried me and I can't lose This is like when you wrestle a puppy a boy puppy when they're young if you let them win

They always think they can do anything. Yeah, but then it's like, all right Well you in no way do

I want to go through with this, but I lay it out These are the rules and the standard doesn't change.

Well, she's tired. Okay. Well the standard doesn't change, right? Is my job is give you like disobedience?

There's a one the old guys that kind of taught me a lot growing up He made a comment said the dad is the rock of the foundation in which the family's built on So as we push and grow that's half the thing is being consistent and being the rock for your daughter or your kiddo

It just I don't know you got to stay consistent with it, but without that rock I mean things shift all the time and there's not a standard.

Yeah, I have to well Then your kids don't know what to do and it's and they'll push boundaries more and more and more and they always do

I mean, but they're always gonna try boundaries even the ones they know they're not allowed to cross There's still time.

Don't don't pick your sister up and Seconds later. You're like, all right. I just told you not to pick her up There's been a spanking or two and a sprint or two and a push -up or two in the

Shipley house for that one Though I'll tell you what she's learned a lesson finally. She has not picked up What's my son's name

Silas? Wow, it's been a day She has not picked up Silas a single time We've got it this round The boys will be about two years apart and so I'm just curious to see how that's gonna go

But please don't we figure that one out. Finally. It's a good thing children are durable. Yeah Like very durable it's a good thing and it's not even with each other like you're holding him when you turn around Oh, there was a door frame

Well with the size of your son's head, I'm surprised that doesn't happen every day I can't tell you how many times

I hit his head in doorways and now it's like with me being pregnant Belly is getting bigger obviously like the longer

I'm pregnant and I've been starting to hit my stomach on things now because I'm not used to it, but yeah, I can't tell you how many times

I've Accidentally hit my kids head on the doorway. I'm okay. Don't worry about But did you want to share that scripture that sure pastor just I was written and this kind of goes to I think we're gonna

Get to this in our discussion about the different forms of discipline because it's not always about punishment.

Yes, but with that in mind one of the reasons to to discipline your children is to raise godly adults, but you are the example of Obedience of how they should obey

God they learn that from how they obey their parents That's the initial learning of that.

And so I wanted to share Hebrews 12, and this is 4 through 11 So it's kind of a long passage, but I'll read

It's the Bible and your struggle against sin you have not resisted to the point of shedding blood and You have completely forgotten this word of encouragement

This addresses you as a father addresses his son It says my son do not make light of the

Lord's discipline and do not lose heart when he rebukes you Because the Lord disciplines the ones he loves and he chastens everyone.

He accepts us his son Endure hardship as discipline Discipline God is treating you as his children for what children are not disciplined by their father

If you are not disciplined and everyone undergoes discipline, then you are not legitimate not true sons and daughters at all

Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we were Respected them for it.

How much more should we submit to the father of spirit and live? They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best

But God disciplines us for our good in order that we may share in his holiness No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful later on However, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it

And one of the main things I would want to point out by that passage It is automatically assumed maybe even commanded that you are disciplining your children, right?

The whole analogy it's not like if you discipline your children, yeah, it is assumed that you are doing it

So what's the difference between? discipline and punishment Because a lot of people say we discipline our child and we spank him.

So some people see is spanking as discipline is a teaching Punishment is a tool that can be used for discipline.

It should not be the only tool But it is a tool so sometimes you can look at what your child has done and you can say, okay

Maybe they really didn't understand. This might be a discipline moment where I talk about What needed to have been done where they went wrong and give a steering correction

Kind of like the training of how to clean a room, you know That's one where you might not immediately go to punishment because maybe there's a learning.

Sorry again maybe there's a learning curve there, but Punishment is usually something

Unpleasant so discipline isn't always unpleasant. So would you say maybe way to say it is

Discipline is the umbrella term of the job. You're trying to do it to train like a

Discipline a disciple of Christ. It involves all of that and then the tools to use that might be

Spankings timeout running running write your name 100 whatever you just said

Those are all tools to get the overall goal of discipline. Yes, and a parent like, you know

Okay, so one of the trigger words these days is is gentle parenting

Yes Which I find offensive because it by default implies that anyone that's not using that parenting style

It's not gentle and kind towards their children and to me that is an absolute false What they mean by gentle parenting is not push -ups and spankings.

Yes, correct gentle words To correct and it implies that it's push -ups spankings and sprints are not gentle.

Mm -hmm, correct But to me that parent has handcuffed them so they've handicapped themselves to limiting themselves to only one form of Discipline one form of punishment and that might not work for other children.

Exactly. They've taken all the others off the table Well, if that form of child rearing isn't working for your child

They are not going to be ready to be a godly adult, but they're raising them to be unicorns

Oh, what do you mean? Because it's it's an unrealistic View of the world.

Everyone's gonna talk kindly to you. Look like you can't say in love

There there pastor Jeff had made a comment that you want to be the reason why when you train a fighter you want them to get rocked

You want them to get a bloody nose? You want that to happen in a controlled place so they learn how to deal with it

Yeah, because when they're in the ring, they're gonna get a bloody nose or bloody whatever. They're gonna freak out.

Yeah You know, I want that to happen at home in the safety of you were safe and I told you and I raised you a

Gentle parent. Okay. Well, you're not gonna use mean words and you're gonna plead with your child What happens when they're running to the street?

Oh, yeah, that's oh, yeah. Oh, well, you know, and that's no That's perfectly unacceptable in all ways because you can't say it was loving and gentle to not

Autocorrect that child immediately when they're running to get smashed by a car

So how can you say that? I think I think the saying gentle parenting is loving

I would almost I disagree because for some Scripture here says otherwise he chastens those.

Yes. Yes, you know some trains I say scourges But you know about that I Was gonna say that Hold on before I lost my train of thought.

It's okay. We were talking about children running in the street Oh, yeah, you're talking about unicorns and not everyone's ever gonna talk to you that way

I I learned this it took me a couple years, but I finally realized it like Before let's say

Ava We'll say we're at the playground and she says hi to a kid and says hi

How are you and they just kind of ignore don't want to talk to whatever I used to kind of get mad like what's wrong? With you kid. Okay, my kid said hey to you, but now

I'm like Okay, Ava. She don't want to talk to you shouldn't go talk to you That's life like I'm in my brains like I'm not preparing her because let me tell you something

Sometimes folks don't want to talk to me. So yeah people they register I try to be friendly right and they just don't talk Now when she looks back and I'm like, okay, then you keep playing

I'm trying to work myself out of a job not give myself a lifetime Like I don't want so my desire for my child is

I want to be wanted not be needed when she's an adult I don't want a phone call. Daddy.

What do I do? I would hey daddy. Just so you know, I did this What do you think about that? I would rather have a conversation with my adult child

That I gave them the tools to make their decisions for them Imagine that when I was 24 or whatever 23 and I started working for the public school system in Memphis if Like the first time someone was mean to me if I called my mom and said hey mommy, they were mean to me

I don't know what to do. She probably felt like I failed as a parent. I mean

Like talk to your dad like So 23 years old.

What do you mean someone's mean? You're trying to instill that in your children now like Nadine got upset because I let the dog out and she wanted to look the daddy that hurts my feelings and I was like I'm sorry, baby.

You gotta get tougher feelings Yes, because my goal is my goal as a parent is to give her a foundation to grow on it

She doesn't get to go. Well, this hurts and it should never hurt. I don't ever want to hurt you're gonna

Uh, there's a comment I'm trying to create I'm okay with scrapes and bruises.

I'm trying to prevent scars Yeah, and like I really feel like with my kids like I'm just trying to make sure you don't have the same

I'm not trying to give you my problems. I want you to grow up and have your own I kind of said something similar that you know

Sometimes when you're teaching your children how to make decisions that are responsible. It's It's to your advantage that they do those at home where yes, they might

I mean I can remember one of my sons I believe it was Jeremiah Wanted to help flip pancakes and I gave him a warning and I said son

You're not tall enough and there's not room for a stool here. You're gonna burn yourself No, mom,

I can reach it. I can do it and I said, okay hear me one more time You're probably gonna burn yourself and he says

I got it. I got it. So I'll let it happen In a controlled so now he's not drunk driving and Killing somebody else's child.

He learned early on when the consequences were controlled They were still very real consequences that hurt but they were controlled, right?

This thing you won't I don't want to prove I don't want to save her from consequences because that I mean there's that happens throughout life

I'm just trying to give you the tools to handle them as they come And at least and at least think things through enough like you know, what this is probably not a good decision like Hey, I can't tell me

Thomas daddy. Can I climb on that? I'm like, baby's gonna hurt when you fall. Good luck because But this is the age to do that.

I didn't say here's the car keys Go have fun playing outside with sticks and no shoes on or running around barefoot with the anthills right there

I mean tell that story The stick one that anthill Hill I told your mom to prepare at least a couple of stories about Sure, let's go ahead everybody.

All right, everybody. Let's go this commercial Explain what type of child?

Josiah was to give other people an idea of how stubborn a perfect was

He's standing in an anthill and they are climbing up his legs and biting him is burning

And he just grew up in the Georgia. They are red. Yeah, and they are evil

Yeah, but this is also the Sun that which this was kind of cool Jeff usually my husband pastor

Jeff used to he would try to go with me when kids were getting shots, especially when we had multiple kids getting shots and on this one particular day he had a meeting he couldn't miss and I Believe us little

Jeff was the newborn and he had to get five -year -old shots And so we were going to the pediatrician he couldn't go so he sat down with Josiah that morning and said son

Mommy's gonna have a really hard time because she's got the baby and the baby's gonna be crying and doesn't understand So I need you is gonna hurt

I'm not lying to you, but I need you be tough and take it like a man and not give mama a hard time

So he said yes, we go to the pediatrician Baby gets the shots. I'm comforting baby.

Just I gets his shots. He'd held his breath. He took it like a man passed out But when his daddy got there he said

I took it like a man daddy I think that's one thing just going on the shot thing really quick The doctor was like Now they say that all the time

So I worked at a pediatric clinic for a while and like I would have parents ask me when they would check in for their children's appointments like are they gonna get shots today and I would look at their because one of my

Jobs was like checking to make sure they were updated on vaccines and stuff and I would look at their record and I'm like Well, you know your kids coming in for their five -year -old kindergarten shots

It doesn't look like they've had those yet. And this is their kindergarten checkup So they will most likely be getting a shot today and they're like, okay

Well, don't tell them that and I'm like, I mean that's your responsibility as a parent to tell them about shots

Because then they're gonna have trust issues if they're you're telling them they're not gonna get shots and then they go in and that's like a whole thing so I Like I said because of my experience

I've started with my son I don't remember how old he was but he had 12 -month shots

And then he had his like 18 -month shots just like a couple of weeks ago in this last time I told him said buddy, you're good

You know has no idea what I'm probably talking about You're gonna get shots today and it's gonna hurt for a little bit But you know what if you're a good boy and you do well,

I'm like, we'll go get a treat afterwards And so like I hate holding him down. That's the freaking worst thing.

I hate It was worse than the circumcision, but we can talk about that later.

We'll talk about that later. I was in the room I talked to your wife about that. I couldn't I couldn't do it good. But um, yeah

But so all of that like he we had to had to lay on top of him He got a shot, you know, my husband wasn't with me

He was at work and stuff And so as soon as he sits up the nurse blows him up like a little glove balloon, you know

Draws a smile and then he stopped crying. And so I told him I said you did such a good job We're gonna go get

Sonic because I wanted Sonic Stress but that's the thing that I see with parents a lot of the times is they think they're protecting their children, but they're

Providing a wedge between them with trust and it's like, you know instead of like, oh, you know, my dog ran away

It's like no your dog got hit by a car and it's like the parents wouldn't to be honest with them

So I think that's one thing that like some parents fail at and because then they're gonna have trust issues when they're older like well

How do I know what you're telling me is right and you know, like all the things I decided long before I was ever gonna have kids that I was going to be 100 % honest with them

Yeah, this goes back to ways that they can understand right age -appropriate. This goes back to our

Santa episode, but you know like as A culture obviously and there's some good to this.

So don't misunderstand We are far more squeamish with death than cultures before us that it was in their face all the time now one negative

One positive of that is the gospel could be centered around the reality of this is temporary

Death is coming, right? Whereas here we hide ourselves Maybe so much from it that we forget that is the reality, right?

I mean that that's sure. I mean, that's the reality so um like Dead squirrels like in my neighborhood all the time

That's how it started and then funerals no, they're not sleeping. Yeah, especially at the school

It looks like they they're sleeping, but they're not yeah, they're dead. So I'm Taking one life the first time we went to a funeral.

I told Ava I was like, hey There's gonna be a dead person Now that dead person that's their body.

They're actually not in their body anymore And now this was a believer

I said they're with the Lord right now He's with the Lord, but his body will be there and it is dead It is not alive in any realm.

You can touch it pick up the arm. It will he will not respond. He's dead. We We go in the funeral home and we walk in and everyone is in the room.

Do you remember this? I'm trying to recall who you're talking about And Everyone's in the room and The music starts because we because I had

I hadn't taken her up there to see him yet And people are sitting down and she goes as loud as she can daddy.

Can I see my dad? Can I see my dad

But then Maybe four, but I think it was three or four.

Maybe they thought she said Ed. Yeah Let's hope but you know now

You know, we went to a viewing two weeks ago She understands all normal doesn't freak out doesn't have any like that.

She just acts like a regular kid She knows when to be respectful when you know, she's learned that So Sheltering or maybe protecting the word use what you think you're protecting them from is actually something maybe that You don't need to protect them from because then they're gonna have to face the reality of it later

Which what you're talking about? Yeah, I love that. Yeah Yeah, for sure. It's such a disservice.

So maybe the next question should be And I guess for our guests especially but especially for someone who's already raised by children teen children, yeah, she has five children

Just how did you decide? the appropriate Punishment fits the crime

The Bible words it this way. He wants equal scales. In fact, he says unequal scales are detestable an

Abomination now, that's the same word. He used of homosexuality of idol worship of murder

Abomination Equal scales so in deciding what form of discipline to use what are some tools we can use to that because That is not always as black and white as right.

It can be difficult at least for me sometimes So, how do we decide what measure to use

I think it's important to have more than one tactic What you mean? Oh not cutting off half of your tools that you're getting.

Yeah likes Sprint spankings. Yeah, like if if all if the only tool you have is a hammer then that's you're always looking for a nail

That's a good point. So like good saying it's not a man. Yeah, that's great

So in other words if it this level wasn't it was rebellion but not in the same sense as this if you're saying

Punishment they're gonna see it as the same crime Like there's a lot of times that I mean I know mean you've talked sometimes you discipline your child and they get a spanking and the spanking this time does not faze them

Yeah, they're back at it three seconds later. There's been there's been a couple times. We're making them throw away the doll.

Oh, yeah Dude that has brought about some repentance

It really is hard when the mama or the daddy paid $200 for said doll and you allow it to be thrown away.

That's never been $200 of a doll But I understand what you're saying definitely makes you pick that up with a pair of shoes that of them with pair of shoes

And I spent money on those shoes, right? but I said what I said and I can't take back those words and I don't need to that happened with a pair of shoes throwing away so yeah, um

I'm with you. You've got to have multiple for me. Um a disobedience like Clean your room and they don't

Even then that you have to look at did they just get distracted was an accident They I'm not doing it so what you're saying is if you say clean your room they say no that's different than clean your room

Yes, ma 'am. They go and then they watch a Bugs Bunny. You're saying they got it They got they were picking up the

Legos and all of a sudden started building. Yeah, you know It's a difference.

Did they disobey in both scenarios? Yes, but the heart of the matter was different in each so the punishment would be different scenario one

Where the clean room no, what's that some type of physical it and another line for us?

After I would say about six maybe seven we did very little spankings. We mostly did the spanking earlier

Because the other forms of physical punishment like with the running the stairs or the push -ups

You can't really do that with a three -year -old. They might you know, have a concussion falling down the stairs

Their form isn't very good What's right now and they are less effective than they are for Ava because she counts like like not with the rep

Like do 20 body squats. Yes, sir One two three, and she's done Like like if you have her do 20 body squats, she counts the 20 and she does three

Yeah, she's brilliant She's not she she can't coordinate the saying of the number with the rep

Anyway, you were saying so so, you know, but once they're older we used more

Running around the house Sometimes if I'm really good running around the house with bricks held over in Atlanta in July.

I remember that You know just hard lessons learned. Yeah When but when it involved my kids fighting with each other.

Do you remember what your punishments were? Yeah, you got an oversized t -shirt We would make them hug

I would put one of daddy's t -shirts on them If they were fighting over a toy you lost the toy

I'm not I'm not going to you're not gonna ruin my day Because y 'all can't get along give the blessing of this great toy and you're gonna fight over it

And it doesn't take too many times of the toy goes to the trash or the toy goes to the attic or whatever the case

Is that they either hide that they're fighting over it and don't bring it to me or A little bit of a win.

Yeah, they worked it out work it out Yeah, however, they worked it out, but in some personal skills to walk through it

There's no that happened as a that has happened in the workplace many times Where I'm like, all right We got to figure this out because if we can't figure it out

One of us are going to go talk to two managers, right? We gotta figure this out I do not want to do that.

So, you know just a wide variety. There was a lot of Physical when you have four boys in the house

There's always gonna be a lot of physical and a couple of them were more stubborn than than the others.

Yeah. Oh He was the one that was about to say he's the baby. I'm assuming that's who she was before.

She's talking about hunter Well hunter. Yeah I Told you to clean your room.

All right, go run the stairs And one there became a time that as long as it wasn't food grossness

I quit requiring the room to be clean. I don't care if you want to live like that pigsty I wasn't looking at you

Boys learn from the road. Okay. Well, these are the consequences. I can't find my stuff. Well, maybe you should look through mr

New leaf over here. I fixed it and I turned over a new leaf How long did it take it?

No, how long did it take me to clean it or how long did it take me and Rachel? It was one of the only time she was ever allowed upstairs

Stairs and the door was open, but I was like, oh you're gonna help him clean We'll figure out a way you can go up the stairs.

Yeah, I did not clean a single toilet Oh my gosh

Even in the military, no, he didn't go to the military No, you're thinking of um

Jerry Jerry is the one who did Marie. Yeah, he's just empty. He's just an empty just saves people's lives

Yeah, I cannot say Absolutely clean toilets as a kid. Yeah percent. I was supposed to so me my sister had her own bathrooms

Requested my sister to do what was your end of the bargain dishes or what? He's got out of it.

If you can ask a lot you can have been my brother. There's no way Now you were not sold nothing he worked he worked the system he figured it out

I could pay I paid her cash like once we get a little bit older. I started working while What I said you could have figured out a way you could have figured it out

But there's several scriptures. I wrote them down to that talks about The rod which is a tool of Discipline of if you want to call it spanking whoever spares the rod hates their children read that again

It's Proverbs 13 24 whoever spares the rod hates hates their children

But the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them careful meaning you're putting time and effort into the intention

Yes, you're thinking through. What is the appropriate discipline Proverbs 29 15 and 17 say a rod and a reprimand

Impart wisdom, but a child left undisciplined disgraces his mother Discipline your children, and they will give you peace.

They will bring you the delight you desire And I think that yeah, that's pretty much the ones up that I put down on on Spanking yeah, but you know man whoever doesn't hates their children.

That's what God said well I think because of the way that the culture has been especially with the gentle parenting movement that we've seen

It's like oh my gosh. I don't you know want to hurt my kids I'm a bad parent or we all have Certain things that happened in our childhood the way that we were disciplined that we particularly didn't like so we don't want

To make those same mistakes with our own children And then you end up not disciplining whether it's you know with the punishments or spankings using those as a tool

And so it's like you you literally hate your child well And I think there is you don't want to do that there's something to be said about Not you know if you are in public considering is this an appropriate place to spank my child not because of fear of repercussions although that is a gene yes genuine fear, but more because It's my child gonna be more embarrassed and therefore not receive the discipline and punishment.

I'm trying to show them. That's good You know am I losing what my intention is by the location the audience if you want to say?

That's witnessing the discipline so that has to be considered because there's also scripture about Don't provoke your children to anger

And I think things like that is what that's talking about that in that discipline if you're angry, and you're frustrated

Then they're not receiving the discipline. They're not learning from it. You're just Like they're already at the ten.

They're not they're not taking any of it in you know And and we've only got a few more minutes.

I do want to say one thing about example setting but One thing about the

If your kid notices I had someone tell me this one time if I disobeyed in public It was worse, and she didn't really care if I disobeyed at home

Because she was embarrassed that kind of implies that really it's more about other people saw you as a parent

And you felt some type of way about it and that changed the tactic you would have done at home And we've got to fight those things because of course there's an embarrassment in public

But it has to be the same result as when it's back at the house Staying consistent. Yeah, but like you know like with a gentle parent thing

We're talking I was like my goal is not to shield and shelter my children It is to armor them up and to put teeth in their mouth

That's right, so that not only can they handle what comes for them They didn't need me to hold their hand as they well.

That's right. That's right You know when we think about you know scripture talking about putting the armor of God on this what we're trying to teach our kids

That's right. I can't protect you from everything, but if I give you the shield and give you the breastplate and The helmet like you're you're prepared to deal with what's coming towards you.

It's not sneaking around behind you It's coming towards you, and you're already ready for it I think that's one thing that intimidated me about having boys because I'm like with girls in a way.

I feel like It would almost be easier to raise girls to into women like godly women

Versus godly men like I remember finding out that I was pregnant You know with our first son, and I'm just like I I have no idea like what

I should do like I'm supposed to raise a white Christian male in this generation the society where he will literally be hated for just being

Who he is not to mention there's very few examples of that outside of your father I mean right in other words.

There's not a whole lot of examples of godly Christian men to look at right there's not a plethora of it right and so that's why

I'm really thankful for our church in particular And my I mean my husband most of all because we have such

We have so many tools to be used like I've like I said earlier

I've learned a lot from Gwen and she lives rent -free in my in my head with all these things about Just child discipline like rearing all that stuff, but it just really worried me to Have that responsibility.

I guess I was scared of that responsibility of raising a son, but Looking at what

God calls you to do. It's like you need to love the Lord. They need to see that you love the Lord They don't need to see the hypocrisy that lives within you there have been times

I've had to apologize to my son because I reacted in such a way I'm like even

I'm like even when he was younger He had no idea what I was talking about But I'm like humbling myself in front of my son who had

I'm like I could get away with this Like I could get away with this not feel bad about it. You know whatever and I'm like you know son

I shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry for doing that. You know I won't do it again.

You know like forgive mommy blah blah blah whatever But I just think it was very intimidating to do that, but I look at how my son is

Specifically he doesn't do this with like any woman at the church besides my mom He loves

Artie He loves like big guys like the most intimidating guys in our church my son gravitate and gravitates towards them

And so Artie always like growls at my son, and then my son saw him across the sanctuary today, and he goes

Adam and then he loves seeing mr.. Bill. He's learned mr.. Bill's name, and he'll go up to him

He saw brother Jeff today, and he said pastor And he points to them and so knowing that like he's making an 18 months old year

I'm making these relationships with the men in our church is just so Comforting to me and knowing that my husband has those men plus other men in the church to lean on to In regards to raising children because like we did not claim to know everything about parenting

FYI We're just talking about our experiences the things that worked or didn't work and all of that and every child is different Well, no,

I know I've told you this several times I've told lots of women this like almost every new mom that I've ever come across.

I've told this is that Um You won't be an expert ever right you'll constantly be learning new things being sorry for things as you realize

That you're doing it wrong, but if you start early enough Your parent your children are not gonna remember your mistakes

That's one of my favorite Yeah, he won't remember that I'm like oh, yeah, that's really good

Yeah So you have a lot of grace there that they are infants when you're starting and they're not gonna remember all those

Mistakes and as long as you're correct on them and learning them and becoming a better parent Then you might make mistakes, but you're not failing.

Yeah, if we can do this, we've got five minutes I want to give time for last word if I could just read one scripture

I think she actually printed it off and then we'll be done. But this is Deuteronomy chapter 6 and it says this

This is the commandment and the statutes and the rules that Yahweh your God commanded me to teach you That you may do them in the land you're going to in possession and you may fear

Yahweh your God You and your son and your son's sons By keeping all the statutes and commandment and then it goes on verse 6 and these words

I command you today shall be on your heart You will teach them diligently to your children.

They shall talk about them when you sit at your house When you walk by the way when you lie down and when you rise no matter where you're at You're consistent at the house at the church, whatever you'll bind them as a sign on your hand

They'll be as the front lids between your eyes You shall write them on the doorpost of your house and on your gates so in other words

You discipline your children not just with punishment as we were saying earlier But by diligently teaching them those things not just with your words

With your actions and they will follow. That's kind of my last word. What's your last word, bro?

I mean, it's you gotta teach them what to do and and not to do.

It's really easy to get Well, you have to do things this way Well, it's not always the case and sometimes you gotta make things your own but like it's really easy

No, don't do that. No, don't do that. Don't do that What do I do with my hands what do you do instead right?

Yeah. Yeah, don't just say what not to do Tell them what to do instead I mean kind of what Anna said like I have two girls and that is not the route

I expected in my life Y 'all should switch. Yeah, we know not my son's pretty sweet. He's actually really sweet boy come too far.

No My daughter's that's four years of wasted time.

I'm like a new relationship. I'm not starting over but like I never

You know, my daughters have taught me just as much or more like I remember Watching trying to teach my daughter how the things to do and then

I watched her loser cool and throw something down and go And I was like, I can't believe you would ever do that I was like, oh, she just learned that for me and I just did the exact same thing.

She did So sometimes it's you know, it's being consistent but also saying no we shouldn't do that man last word

I'll end with the word I started on Consistency it's exhausting.

Sometimes you don't feel like doing it, but be consistent last word

Anna I Would just say If you were unsure of what route to take as a parent just always look to scripture

Because like I said earlier a lot of us have Issues with the way that we were raised or disciplined growing up and instead of saying

I'm not going to do it My mom or my dad or my grandma whomever did? I'm not gonna do it this way because like just in spite like I'm not gonna do that But instead do what scripture calls you to do and you will have obedient children

Very good. All right guys. Well that ends our time today. I Hope this podcast has been some benefit to you and it has to me for sure

Not just this episode but previous episodes Find one you like and share that always like the videos comment subscribe

Send any ideas to Anna. We got a few more weeks of this season We're gonna take a break for a little bit and then we're gonna come back.

We have new guests already mind knocking on the door for season 7 want to thank

Evan and Gwen for coming on the podcast today aka mom and Just want to thank you guys for watching.