Is It Sinful to Be Vegan?

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Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

We're your host, Harrison Kerrigan, Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we'll answer the age -old question, Is it sinful to be vegan?

Now, as we're starting this episode off, Tim, what Bible verse do you have for us to read? Romans 14, 1 -4 says,

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.

Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls, and he will be upheld, for the

Lord is able to make him stand. Well, there you go. You can be a vegan, right? Well, part of the problem here is that this verse really has nothing, you know, whatsoever to do with, you know, veganism or vegetarianism in general.

I mean, those are obviously two different things, and done for slightly different reasons. But yeah,

I mean, this passage really doesn't have anything to do with that. Okay, so I want to ask you about that, but I guess first, why don't we start with, you know, you're kind of talking about the distinctions between being a vegetarian and being vegan.

So, why don't we go ahead and, I guess, define both of those just so we can understand what the difference is, even though we're specifically talking about veganism here.

Yeah, I mean, well, both of these worldviews are essentially worldviews that believe that human beings and animals are, you know, functionally the same.

You know, we're both human beings. There is no distinction in these worldviews between human beings and animals, except for the extent to which we're, you know, higher on the evolutionary ladder.

But then just because we're higher on the evolutionary ladder doesn't mean that we're afforded, you know, certain privileges over the animals.

So, there's, in both of these frameworks, there is a significant concern that we treat, you know, our fellow animals with dignity and respect.

We treat our animals humanely, right? Yes, right. So, you know, what an oxymoron when you talk about the humane treatment of animals.

But, you know, when you think about, like, veganism, veganism is vegetarianism taken a little bit further, right?

So, vegetarianism typically involves just a commitment in as far as it's possible to eat only vegetables.

But then, when you're talking about something like veganism, you're talking about not only a commitment to only, like, to only eat vegetables, but then it's also to the extent to which it's possible.

So, there's some fuzziness along those lines. But to the extent to which it's possible, there is also a rejection of all animal products along those lines, too.

So, you know, you might think of, like, leather bags or that kind of thing that are made from animals.

So, there's, you know, more restrictions along those lines. But then, so vegans, they typically exclude all animal products, including meat, poultry, fish, dairy, eggs, and often honey.

This means no animal -derived ingredients whatsoever, right?

And then the vegetarians will exclude, like, meat, poultry, fish, and then there's different types of vegetarians along those lines.

But then, there is, like, differences along the lines of just their philosophy or ethical stance.

So, vegans, like, they're typically not just adopting this lifestyle for dietary reasons, okay?

But basically, just, it's more to it than that. It's just a strong ethical stance against animal exploitation or harm, quote -unquote, in any form, right?

So, vegetarians, on the other hand, they may choose that as a, you know, for dietary reasons, despite the fact that the dietary benefits are pretty bad.

And a lot of people get in a lot of health problems doing either one of these things, because they're missing essential things that they need.

But, you know, it may be largely focused on the diet. And then, you know, maybe some vegetarians might still use, like, leather or wool or other animal -derived products.

But, you know, veganism is just a harder stance. It's based on harder ethical assumptions.

They're a different kind of worldview. So, basically, I guess the difference between vegetarianism and veganism is the vegetarian won't eat beef, but will drink milk.

And the vegan won't eat meat and will not drink milk, right? Yeah, or honey.

Yeah, and there's definitely, they won't use any products. But they're not supposed to. I mean, most people are absolutely consistent with that.

It's supposed to go beyond just dietary restrictions, right? Right.

But then, I guess... It embraces the entire worldview at that point. What did you say?

Yeah, veganism definitely is embracing, of necessity, a certain kind of worldview that's very hostile to Christianity.

Okay. But then the motivation behind it isn't necessarily, like, normally a dietary, like, motivated decision, right?

It's like a... Essentially, it's motivated by, normally by a worldview that says, hey, in almost every way, or in every single way, people and animals should be valued the same, should be treated the same.

That's basically what it is on paper. I mean, you may have stupid vegans who don't know the difference between veganism and vegetarianism in that way, and then are doing it for dietary reasons.

They're doing it as a fad diet or something, but that isn't really the intention behind it. I mean, it is ethical.

It is a worldview you're talking about. So you're talking about veganism, you're talking about a worldview that is basically just hostile to a biblical worldview.

It's not just like a diet plan, you know, like whole 30 or something like that.

Although some people might, you know... I mean, you have been brainwashed as a society, definitely for sure, to think that meat is bad for you.

And I mean, that's just... You can look at some of the responses to people who are doing the carnivore diet or something along those lines.

And they act as if people are killing themselves by eating meat.

So there's a lot of propaganda out there that basically just says that. Well, and even just like the... I know there's been a lot out there to say like, hey, you've got to stop eating meat because it's destroying the climate, right?

Right. We've got to cut down on the cow farts, you know?

So you've got to stop eating hamburgers and Salisbury steaks. So pick one for the team here, man.

Come on. Yes, the predominant reason is the ethical reasons that are against anything that would exploit animals, which basically means in this worldview, that means treat animals as animals and not as humans basically, right?

Right. So the ethical reasons come front and center. Then you have the environmental reasons, the things that you've mentioned, which

I mean are obviously fake. But then the health reasons and then for many people, it is like a spiritual religious kind of thing.

This is a whole new world. Well, it's an idolatry, right? Right. You're taking animals and you're putting them in a...

You're elevating them to a position, to a role that God never intended for them to be, right?

Right, for sure. So going back to Romans 14, those verses that you read right at the beginning,

I'm sure most people when they hear a verse like that, they probably think, oh, this must directly pertain to this kind of conversation that we're having right now.

But then you read it and you're saying this has nothing to do with it at all. So now that we've defined some of these things, now that we've established what it is we're actually talking about, explain that statement that you made earlier that Romans 14 has nothing to do with being a vegetarian or being a vegan.

Right, so what people do at that point is they're not really reading it very carefully and they're not really considering how it relates to other things that are in the

New Testament. So Romans 14, what they do is they read Romans 14 2 and that's about it, right?

Well, they'll read 2 through 4. So one person believes he may eat anything while the weak person eats only vegetables.

So they read that and they kind of get rid of the word weak, right? Yeah, yeah.

So they say one person believes he may eat anything. No, but they probably replace it to him with something like but the virtuous or the righteous or something like that.

Here's the vegan translation, you know, or the sloppy translation. So one person believes he may eat anything while the virtuous person eats only vegetables.

So in that kind of framework, then they get rid of the word weak and the word weak doesn't have a meaning.

And then let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats for God has welcomed him.

So who are you to pass judgment on another servant? So we got rid of the weak part and we got rid of verse 1.

And so then in that kind of framework, this just is about eating vegetables versus eating meat. And then there's a pretty straightforward application there.

Hey, some people don't think it's okay to eat meat for whatever reason, right? The reason doesn't matter.

And there's no negative qualifier put on that person in this verse whatsoever.

In fact, I mean, we might as well consider them the more righteous brother in the

VSB translation. All right. So take it a step further though.

All right. Let's insert the word weak back. We won't even get to verse 1 yet. Okay. We'll just insert the word weak back.

Then you have one person believes he may eat anything while the weak person eats only vegetables. Well, at the very least in that, under that kind of logic, vegans are extremely weak and immature

Christians, right? If that makes sense. So they're actually - Like best case scenario.

Best case. They're weak Christians who need to grow up. All right. So at the very least we should be able to say they're weak

Christians who need to grow up. But what actually happens in this kind of discussion is that these are put alongside each other with no judgments made whatsoever.

Does that make sense? Like you're not allowed to judge any way or another. There's two alternative lifestyles and just that's obviously not what's going on.

Okay. So, but then when you go back, right, when you go back to 14 verse 1, it says, as for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not the quarrel over opinions.

That gives you a significant qualification to add to what we're even talking about here.

Okay. So like the idea of being a vegan has nothing to do with being weak in faith. Like in the first instance.

Like that's just not really the discussion we're talking about because you've taken this verse and you've ripped it out of its context, right?

Okay. So like meaning, like the discussion that was live at the time was a discussion about eating food offered to idols.

That's the discussion. And so then the individuals who are going to eat vegetables, they're not doing so for health reasons.

They're not doing so for environmental reasons. They're not doing so for ethical reasons. Okay. Like they're not thinking about cow farts.

They're not thinking about cow farts. They're not thinking about, oh, well, I'm only going to eat vegetables because we need to treat these animals humanely.

And it's, you know, there are brothers, right? That God has made. There are brothers.

Like that's not what they're thinking. Okay. So the idea is they're living, like you have, you have

Christians who are living in, you know, very pagan world who still sacrifices food to idols.

And, you know, you go to the meat market, you're going to buy your meat and you don't really know, has this been sacrificed to idols or not?

So you're coming out of this false worship. You're coming into Christianity and you don't want to go back.

You don't want to be tainted or defiled by this meat that's been offered to idols. So then the, the path forward there is like for the weak person, right?

So for the weak person, the person who's weak in faith, the path forward is just to say, I don't know where this is coming from.

So I'm just going to eat vegetables, right? And that's, that's the same thing that Daniel and Daniel was doing.

Like, or it's a similar kind of thing that Daniel and Shadrach and Meshach and Abednego are doing in different, in a different way, right?

So it's a different kind of application, but Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, they're eating only vegetables because they didn't want to be defiled by the food that they were getting because it wasn't kosher, right?

So you have like that kind of motivation. So they decide to eat only vegetables and then God does a miracle and makes them look fatter and more healthy than the

Babylonians, despite the fact that they're only eating vegetables, right? So that, that should tell you that that wasn't meant to be like the

Daniel diet or something. I'm on the, I'm on the, yeah, veganism is biblical because I'm on the

Daniel diet. They ate only vegetables, not because of health reasons. They did it because they didn't want to, they didn't want to eat food that wasn't kosher.

God had to perform a miracle to sustain them. And God performed a miracle and it worked out.

So that was an act of them like saying, hey, we're not going to, we're not going to violate God's word, even while we're living in Babylon here.

But then, you know, for the New Testament Christians, there's a faith kind of issue too. It's just a different one.

So the issue is they don't want to eat the food offered to idols. So they don't know if this thing has been offered to an idol or not.

They choose not to, not to eat at all. Okay. And so then because they, they fear, like they fear that by eating it, they'll be defiled.

Okay. So in the language of Romans 14 and language of first Corinthians, that means like they're the weaker brother because they don't realize that they're not defiled by what they put in them.

Okay. Yeah. It's like, so like in the logic of, you know, first Corinthians, what they need to do is, you know, go to the meat market, eat whatever is there, asking no questions.

But then if someone says, you know, this was sacrificed to an idol, then don't eat it. So they have the liberty to go to the meat market, purchase whatever they want to purchase and not worry about it unless someone tells them at which point they shouldn't do it.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So that would be the strong person who realizes he has freedom in Christ to handle the situation that way.

The weak person doesn't realize he has that kind of freedom in Christ and is so nervous of being defiled by this food offered to a foreign god, they're going to abstain.

So in that kind of context, as for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to grow over opinions.

You don't have to fight over it. Just let him eat only vegetables if he's too afraid. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. But that has nothing to do with vegetarianism.

That has nothing to do with veganism. Like those are just two different worldviews that we're talking about. These are just like, you have one that is operating within a

Christian worldview saying, I don't want to participate in false worship. There's a good motivation there.

And then with veganism, vegetarianism, there's no good motivation here. This is just a rejection of pretty much everything

God says about food and the purpose of animals, okay? Like in this life, right?

So after Adam and Eve sinned, what did God do? God killed animals in order to give a covering for them in order that they may clothe themselves.

The vegan comes along and says, I'm too good for you, God. Like, I don't want your covering, right? I'll make my own covering because I'm hostile to this creator, this creation distinction that you've made that I'm like, mankind has been given dominion over the animals.

I reject that and I'm bracing an alternative worldview based on a bad anthropology for bad motivations that are all filled with lies.

So this is just like, we're just talking about totally different things here. Like these things have nothing to do with one another.

You know, regarding the motive, regarding like the actual ethical framework that's underneath that, the worldview that's present, we're just talking about apples and oranges and you're not talking about a situation that's even remotely comparable.

You know, it's pretty funny. Could you imagine like, hey, what if we were having a conversation and it's like Christians coming together, we're having our burger grill out and then someone comes along and says, hey, look,

I appreciate what you're doing but I can't eat those burgers because I don't know if that ground beef was sacrificed to Zeus or not.

You know, and it's like, that's a totally different conversation than what we're talking about right now.

And I think you're right. I think you're right. When it comes to veganism in general, it's really disturbing.

You know, wasn't there like a billboard or something that was basically like, you know, it had the lineup of animals and it was like cows and pigs and chickens and then like horses and rabbits and dogs and cats or something like that.

And it was like, it was from PETA, I think, where they were basically saying like, you know, here, essentially like here's where normal people would draw the line but you should draw the line before any of these animals.

I think is what it was. I can't remember for sure. But then it kind of just blew up on them because then everyone was like, well,

I draw the line right here. But if things were to get really bad, I'd actually move the line down past, you know, horses and rabbits.

I'd eat them too. My cat and my dog. Sure, I'll eat them in a pinch, you know, if things get bad enough.

But it is sort of like this disturbing picture that essentially is, you know, looking at animals and making them into this thing that they are just not meant to be in any way.

And it's really, it's a little bit almost upsetting, I think, to think about it because,

I mean, we live in a society that will not even bat an eye at the fact that we've killed over 60 million babies before they've seen the light of day.

But then we will, I mean, we will just cry and bemoan ourselves when a cow dies or when, you know, when we consider the fact that, you know, the cows are supposedly increasing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, which is changing the climate of the entire world altogether just to sustain us.

You know, just so someone can have their hamburger. And it's like, dude, we have our morals all wrong.

All wrong entirely. Well, it's definitely like anti -human in every way. I mean, I think the extreme vegan ads are, you know,

I don't know if you've seen this, but they, in order to make a point, they have human skinned purses and things like that, that they've made just to, you know, point out how weird it is, right?

So this is how weird it is to, you know, have an animal accessory, accessory made out of animal skin or something along those lines.

But I mean, this is just an anti -human worldview at every single point. And it's evidenced by the things you're talking about, meaning that they don't bat an eye when you kill 60 million babies, but then they're, you know, the child falls into the cage with Harambee or whatever, and we're all crying over Harambee dies, you know, and you can, you can see this kind of thing happening over and over and over again in almost every single way.

But I mean, the point there is just to say that this is just fundamentally a worldview that's hostile to a biblical worldview in every way imaginable, meaning like, we've just messed up the creator or we messed up just the dominion mandate that God has given to human beings.

Like we've been given dominion over animals and we don't see any distinction between humans and animals at that point.

So, I mean, it's a problem at that end, but then there's also just other commands that are given that a vegan would be directly in violation of.

I mean, you talk about the situation where you invite the vegan over to dinner and you're trying to extend to them hospitality and say,

Oh no, I don't eat that. You know, you hateful bigot cooking this animal or whatever, but I mean, you animal murderer.

I mean, in a biblical worldview, it's one of those things where hospitality was such a big deal. Like the whole idea of hospitality, which shows up over and over again, but that testaments, it revolves around this giving and receiving of food predominantly.

And it's so important that, you know, you read first Corinthians 10 27, and this is related to the topic that we're talking about.

If one of, if one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are predisposed to go eat, whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscious.

But if someone says to you, this has been offered in sacrifice and do not eat it for the sake of the one informed you. And for the sake of conscience.

So like the idea is that if an unbeliever invites you to dinner, just eat whatever they give you, there shouldn't be this.

There's even if they're going to eat, give you food, sacrifice to idols, don't even ask about it. Just eat whatever is set before you.

And the only reason that makes sense is because Christians are like, we should be in the business of giving and receiving hospitality.

And that comes in the form of food. But then when you have like this veganism and vegetarianism to a moderate degree, I mean, the same kind of thing principle was at work in this kind of situation, but you invite them over and it's like,

Oh no, I only eat vegetables. You know, it's like, there's no way to hang out there. You do. I don't know what to do in order to,

I guess I'll eat this meatloaf by myself. Well, let's go run to the store and buy you a salad or something, you know?

And it's just like, it totally disrupts hospitality. It totally interrupt, it disrupts like human relationships with each other because in this life, you know, human relationships are centered around meals and that's just not, that's not some arbitrary thing.

This is the way God's designed it. So then when you have people who are coming along, adopting this unbiblical worldview, actually violating the commands of scripture by doing what they're not supposed to do, right.

By rejecting rules of hospitality, not just eating what you're given and with thankfulness, like receiving it with thankfulness.

And like, but you're going to say, Hey, no, I'm too good for that. You know, I've adopted this ethical stance. It's put me in opposition with, you know, half the world because I've, which is based on, you know, pagan assumptions.

And that's just like, you're not only are you like, is this necessarily sinful because it's a product of a anti -God worldview.

You're rejecting the food that God has given to the human race through Noah.

Right. For no reason. Like you're doing that. Like animals have been given to the human race for food. You're rejecting that.

You're saying I'm too good for that. Animals have been given to clothe the human race. You're saying, Hey, I, I don't rejecting that.

I don't want that. I'm too good for that. I have, I'm more pure than God, even right. Not only are you doing that, but you're also like adopting like specific actions, which are specifically prohibited, right.

Related to hospitality. So you're, you're essentially saying, no, I'm not going to eat whatever is set before me because I, I have dietary restrictions that are completely arbitrary that I've decided for myself that make it twice as difficult for you to feed me because you don't even know what

I'm allowed to eat. And, you know, people do this in every single category with all their weird fad diets and everything else, but to where they reject hospitality, but then veganism is just like, it's rejecting hospitality for just a completely pagan worldview.

Yeah. And I will say, I feel like most of the vegans that I've ever met have never looked healthy.

And that, that kind of reminds me of like, it's very strange how, you know, how much our society touts being well -educated and, you know, and boasts in,

Hey, we are just so much better than everyone who has come before us. We know so many things that they've never known before, but then it feels like we get so, as a society, we get so many simple things wrong all the time.

And, you know, I think it's just because most of us who live in first world countries, like we're just complete and total strangers to like not, not having our every need constantly met.

Yeah. These are the kind of problems, a moment's notice, basically, you know? So it's like, I mean, it's like drinking, you know, drinking like raw milk, for example, like it's been declared illegal, apparently like you can't, you are not, you can't even make the choice to do it or not.

You have to buy milk that's been pasteurized, but then that's like, that's a new thing.

I mean, you know, relatively new, new process being added to milk and people have been drinking milk for thousands of years and, and we've been fine as a society, you know?

And, and I think, I think eating, eating meat is another one of these examples where, Hey, maybe we've just gone way too far with some of, with some of this stuff.

Like, Hey, I get it. Like, sure. There's plenty of things that we have learned as a society, you know, that, that the, the goat herders that were living in Israel at the time, you know, in the old

Testament, for example, they might not have known, but then like, there's, there's a lot of things that are just kind of common sense that I think they had figured out and, and we're fine to just follow them.

And, and I feel like, you know, I feel like eating meat has to be one of those where it's like,

Hey, look, they did it. And, you know, it was a big deal for them, you know, like, like they would use it as a, when it was time to celebrate,

I mean, eating meat was a very crucial part of celebration for the

Israelites. And so, you know, maybe there, maybe like there's something to that. Maybe there's some wisdom to that.

I mean, it is pretty tasty. I can see why they would want to eat it, you know? so maybe, you know, maybe there's some of these things that I think we're just, we've, we've taken way too far.

We've overthought far too much and, you know, and because our society is very prideful, we've just kind of assumed everything that we come up with is obviously superior to anything anyone has done throughout all of human history up to the point we now live in.

I think a lot of that though, does assume to that people are normal, like just that people are rational and reasonable and, and the mistakes that they're making are well -intentioned mistakes that are,

I mean, no doubt fueled by pride or something along those lines. But then one of the things you mentioned was you mentioned that the people who are vegans or whatever, they don't appear very healthy in general.

I mean, that's essentially the point of the story and Daniel is that they were healthier despite the fact that they were eating vegetables, you know, even though that's not normally the case and that's not really the way that God made the world to work.

But then when I posted that comment on Twitter, I had doctor after doctor basically saying how bad it was for you health -wise just to be a vegan and you're not getting all these nutrients and minerals that you need and everything else.

And so, I mean, I think when you take a step back and you think about what's actually happening with these agendas,

I mean, there is Satan who is at work behind the scenes, who is the father of lies, who is the spirit, who is at work in the sense of disobedience.

And if you think about what his agenda is, his agenda is always to kill you. Like that's his agenda. And Satan hates humans.

He wants them to die. And he exercises great power and authority and influence over the world systems that exist.

And I mean, you think about like individuals like the world economic forum and everything else and the agendas they have to dramatically depopulate the earth, right?

Like they are obviously running Satan's playbook. They want to kill people and they're trying to figure out how to kill people.

But then if you think about that and you think about, all right, we're living in America, we're living in one of the most prosperous countries in the world.

These are the kinds of errors that only very, very wealthy people can make where you have all these options.

And that's part of what you're saying is that like, if you you're living poverty, you don't, you're not really thinking along these lines.

You're going to take what you can get. And, you know, if you think about what's actually happening with these agendas, you, if we quit using animals for food, what would be the result of that?

That massive portions of the population of the earth would die. And it's like, huh? I wonder if that's actually the agenda.

It's like, yeah, that's exactly what they're telling you. They're trying to do. They're trying to kill everyone. Right? So then you think about just the food pyramid that, that's so heavy on grains and everything else.

And so low on animal products and all the recommendations about how, you know, if you eat meat, you're going to get cancer and everything else.

And you think about all these guidelines that are put out there. All of them are designed to kill you.

And one way or the other make you unhealthy, make you fat. And you look around the world, you look at people, particularly in wealthy countries, like we're just getting fatter and fatter and fatter because we're following these recommendations.

And one of the main causes of death that we experienced are largely due to preventable illness related to diet and exercise and obesity and everything else.

And so just, I think Christians just, you just have to take a step back and you have to have simple childlike faith and say,

Hey, whatever God says is right. So he's going to define morality for me. And if he gave

Noah, right. And by extension, the human race animals to eat for food, it couldn't be that his goal was to give them poison in order to kill them.

That wasn't his purpose in giving them food to eat. And so I think as a

Christian, you have to think about what is God told us to do. Let's do what he's told us to do and ignore the ups and downs of all the fat diets and all the things that go in and out.

And you're just going to be a much safer spot than following whatever the crazy, you know, diet kind of things, nutrition advice that you get that goes up and down.

I mean, I mean, I'm old enough to remember when that we switched to plastic bags because paper bags were going to kill the environment.

And then now we're going back to paperbacks. Maybe we're not as smart as we constantly assume we are.

Just think about it. Like the goal is to kill us. Right. And the goal is to kill us. And that's what Satan's trying to do. And that's where all this stuff is coming from.

And it's not neutral. And the, you know, so you just have to, you have to think whatever the Bible says is right.

And I'm going to believe, I'm going to trust the Lord with all my heart, lean not under my own understandings and all my ways, acknowledge him and direct my path.

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If you're so led and until the next one, we'll see you have a good day. This has been another episode of Bible bashed.

We hope you have been encouraged and blessed through our discussion. We thank you for all your support and ask you to continue to like and subscribe to Bible bashed and share our podcast with your friends and on social media.

Please reach out to us with your questions, pushback and potential topics for us to discuss and future episodes at Bible bashed podcast at gmail .com

and consider supporting us through Patreon. If you would like to be Bible bashed personally, then please know that we also offer free biblical counseling, which you can take advantage of by emailing us.

Now go boldly and obey the truth in the midst of a biblically illiterate world who will be perpetually offended by your every move.