Pradeep Tilak Interview (Part 1)

No Compromise Radio

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:01

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

00:08

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the apostle

00:16

Paul said, but we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

00:24

In short, if you like smooth, watered down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

00:30

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

00:41

King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry.

00:49

My name is Mike Abendroth, and as you know, we have a slogan, always biblical, always provocative, always in that order.

00:57

I'm trying to get you to think biblically. As you know, the God of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, and on the flip side, as believers, we wanna think clearly.

01:09

I don't wanna be having any residue of that blinding nature of Satan.

01:15

Now, I do admit freely that I compromise, but I don't want to.

01:21

I don't wanna compromise at all, and so we try to point you to the one who is clear and clean of all compromise, and that's the

01:29

Lord Jesus Christ. Well, on Wednesdays, I like to have friends, theologians, pastors, and sometimes elders, too, on the radio show, and today,

01:39

I have a great privilege, a high privilege, extreme privilege of having somebody in the studio who

01:45

I serve with, and his name's Pradeep Tilak. Pradeep, welcome to No Compromise Radio. Thank you.

01:51

Pradeep, why am I the one nervous today? I'm not supposed to be nervous. You're supposed to be nervous. Maybe it's because we have not done this before.

02:01

See, that's exactly right. Pradeep, tell our listeners who you are, and let's start with how we met.

02:08

How did we meet? And that'll lead us into a little bit more of who you are and what your background is. The way we met, the way

02:15

I met you was actually in a Sunday service many, many, many, many years ago, but I think the way you met me was trapping me from exiting the church on a

02:28

Sunday evening, and that was the first of many encounters. Well, we'll fast forward a little bit.

02:36

Pradeep is an elder here at Bethlehem Bible Church. He's a dear friend of mine and a co -laborer when it comes to gospel ministry, and if it wasn't for Pradeep, along with some of the other elders, there'd be no

02:49

Compromise Radio ministry because you signed off on it. And now, as I'm speaking on it,

02:56

I'm having my second thoughts. Pradeep, tell us where you were born and raised.

03:02

I was born in India, in southern India, and I was born in a

03:08

Christian family, a nominal Christian family, and a middle -class family, just the average

03:15

Indian, until the Lord chose to place His hand upon me.

03:21

And it changed me. Pradeep, when I was in India, I would notice there would be lots of Christians, but they probably were

03:27

Christian by negation. That is to say, I'm not a Hindu, I'm not a

03:33

Muslim, I'm not a Sikh, I'm not something else, therefore I'm a Christian, maybe Roman Catholic, maybe a

03:39

Lutheran or Methodist, but they weren't born again. What kind of family were you raised in?

03:45

That is, or at least what kind of beliefs did you have as a young person? The church that me and my family went to, it's called the

03:52

Church of South India, when it started, it was an Orthodox church, and they do have doctrines that come from different denominations, but fundamentally they believed in the

04:05

Lord Jesus Christ and salvation by faith alone. And what has happened, even in a place like India, the church had forgotten its

04:16

Lord and become a business. And so this organized church was, in practice, no different than many of the other apostate churches.

04:28

And so although my parents, I cannot speak for their faith at that point in time, they were sincere, but I don't think as a family we were trusting in the

04:42

Lord, and I know I wasn't saved even though I was going to this church. And when did you come to the United States?

04:47

I came in 1996, 95. All right, you and your family?

04:54

No, it was just me. I came here for school. Okay, so you, as a student here in Worcester, stumbled upon Bethlehem Bible Church or Baptist Church in those days, and that's when you and I began to get to know each other a little bit, because I think some of the things

05:09

I said maybe you didn't like. Two things in particular come to mind.

05:16

Well, Pradeep, if I would say something back in the old days regarding 2 Timothy 1, for instance, not because of our works, but because of His own purpose and grace, which

05:27

He gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began. And I would talk about election or predestination.

05:35

What would go through your mind? I would think God looking down the corridors of time and say, what's going on, you know?

05:46

Well, isn't it amazing how our minds, we hear scriptures, you know, Romans 9 or something, that we just reinterpret it into the way we'd like it to be?

05:53

So true, indeed. I know I'm interrupting you. Tell our listeners a little bit about what it was like in your own life as your own thoughts were revolutionized by the concept of the utter sovereignty of God, including loving you before time.

06:10

You know, when I got saved, it was a very powerful, radical experience. I knew the

06:15

Lord who saved me. And so I knew the word through which He was speaking, and it was very dear to me.

06:22

But there was a little bit of a problem in which I was hearing from God, not knowing how to study the word, exegeting the word, letting the word speak for itself.

06:36

I was imputing into it the thoughts and reasons and the philosophies that I was growing up with that I was in charge of my own life.

06:47

And so all the texts that I had studied ever since I was saved until I came to BBC had set up a pattern of thinking that let me be the

06:57

Lord of my life. And so when I came here, I started hearing things such as what is the meaning of the word foreknowledge?

07:06

What does it mean that God saves before the foundation of the world? And so when

07:11

I heard these things, initially it was unpleasant, difficult, and I was unwilling in some senses to even submit to the truth that I was hearing.

07:26

But as the word of God was washing over me, and I remember distinctly, there was one point in time when the light bulb just clicked, and then

07:34

I could see the sovereignty of God in all the scripture. And I think that was like a second epiphany. It was like, wow,

07:40

God, you saved me, but you are so much grander, so much greater. Now Pradeep, back in India, would you think the majority of Indians, at least that you knew and or know, would they be more

07:52

Arminian, more Calvinistic, more Reformed, more semi -Pelagian? What do you see them?

07:59

And why do you think that is? By default, I think most Christians were

08:05

Arminian. And I believe recently, we have a few more Reformed churches coming up in India.

08:13

So I think it is exciting to see that the sovereignty of God is being lifted up now.

08:18

Do you think that as churches begin to teach verse by verse, whether they're Arminian or charismatic or whatever their stripe theologically, that inevitably they become more

08:29

Reformed because you're preaching verse by verse and you can't get past Romans 9.

08:36

You have to deal with 1 Peter 1. He caused us to be born again. What kind of relationship do you see between expository preaching, sequential expository preaching, and a high view of the sovereignty of God?

08:50

When we think of theology, our theology comes from the words of scripture.

08:56

It is the scripture that must inform our theology and not our theology being imposed upon the word of God.

09:04

And I think when we do verse by verse expository preaching, when we let the text speak for itself, there are certain texts that is just inescapable when it comes to the sovereignty of God.

09:16

And I remember as a believer, I used to read this quickly and say, you know,

09:22

I'll find out in heaven. But when you are a preacher and you need to speak to the text that God has plainly revealed,

09:28

I think there is no, it would take a strong volition of my theology imputed on the text to avoid facing the meaning of the text itself.

09:43

Pradeep, you are an elder here at Bethlehem Bible Church. And not that long ago, you got your

09:49

PhD at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville.

09:54

And you know, one of my favorite things about ministry is to see men, and in this particular case, you are younger than I am, to see younger men learn and grow.

10:06

The Lord is maturing them. And then they excel. They go past what

10:12

I have done or written or something like that. In this particular case, I don't have a terminal doctorate.

10:17

I have a doctorate of ministry. And you have a terminal doctorate, a PhD. And I'm so glad that you have done so many things like that.

10:28

I know you're, you know, it would be a praise to the Lord that he did it all to you and through you.

10:34

But I'm glad you got your doctorate at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. How did you find that degree program?

10:41

Was it profitable? And how did it affect your thinking? If I may say something before I answer.

10:49

You can say whatever you want, because what people don't know about my friend Pradeep, I'm not afraid of very many people in the world.

10:55

I'm kind of afraid of my wife because I would hate to let her down. And I don't want to do anything, you know, untoward.

11:03

And if she would be mad at me, that would affect me. And the same would go for Pradeep. I mean, we're friends and I don't know if he's ever been mad at me, but I would hate to do something in ministry that would grieve him.

11:15

That would make him sad and some kind of disqualifying thinking or something. I would hate that.

11:20

And so while I love you and want to serve next to you and count it a privilege, and I think you're kind and sweet and generous,

11:28

I'm also thinking to myself, I never want to look at Pradeep and say, uh -oh, I have something to admit. So you kind of scare me.

11:35

I'm not afraid of too many people, but it's Kim and Pradeep. For the listeners,

11:41

I'm sitting next to my senior pastor under whom I am accountable to submit.

11:49

And thank you. Well, you know, isn't that interesting? And we'll get back to the earlier question in a moment. I think to myself as a plurality of elders, you know, most of the time,

11:58

Steve and I are around and you let us make decisions. You, that is you and the other two men who serve.

12:04

And, you know, at the end of the year, you guys are over us in terms of raises or things like that, or, you know, you need to do this, that, or the other better.

12:12

But in our elder meetings, we're equals and we all have a say. Some are quieter or some are louder.

12:19

Some have more opinions, but we go around the room and around the table, every decision, what do you think of this?

12:26

What do you think of that? And I really think there's a healthy equality in those elders meetings.

12:32

And if one votes no, then we just say, okay, fine. We'll just table it and move on. And I enjoy that about our elders meetings.

12:40

You know, that the way we lead the church under Christ here is such a template and a model from the scriptures.

12:51

Every time I go to different churches to preach, or when I go to India, that what we get to enjoy here becomes a simple format, if you will, as I try to help other churches and other pastors in other places where I go.

13:12

So it's kind of fun, Pradeep, to go to other places. And, you know, familiarity does breed, you know, a kind of discontentment and, you know, you're around.

13:21

And then I go to another church and visit and preach there. And I think, you know what? It was fun to go preach to another church, but I love the people at BBC.

13:28

Or you see, you know, there's bad leadership template. That is to say it's a pastor rule or a congregational rule.

13:36

And you think it's so nice to be back under elder leadership again. So I like to go visit other places because it makes me appreciate

13:42

Bethlehem Bible Church more. Amen, amen. Pradeep, let's go back to your studies at Southern Seminary.

13:50

We have Southern Seminary for the Masters of Divinity program pretty locally with the adjunct campus here in Northborough.

13:57

But to get your PhD, you had to go to Louisville quite often. Tell us about what your topic was for your

14:05

PhD dissertation. And again, if I may just introduce it this way.

14:11

In 2003, I was the couch potato Christian. And I think that was the last couple of years you had been investing in me and encouraging me, exhorting me as a pastor to study the

14:26

Word and to act like a man of God, to be responsible for the great privilege we have as the calling that we've been given in Christ.

14:36

And I remember in 2003 is when I started with Southern, the local extension campus.

14:42

And it was one of those bomb for the soul. It felt like I was in church throughout the week as you're studying and as you're learning and as I understood various aspects of theology, of doctrine, of languages and church history.

14:59

And then when I started my PhD, well, when I finished my MDiv, I was having withdrawal symptoms.

15:05

I just needed to keep filling myself with this richness of God's Word and His truth.

15:11

And so the next logical program was the PhD. So I said, I enjoyed the

15:17

MDiv so much, let me just take the PhD. And there are some things in life that we just jump into without knowing what we are doing.

15:26

And then the Lord just turns that around and makes it one of the most beautiful things you end up ever accomplishing.

15:33

The first semester in Southern doing the PhD, I thought

15:39

I would lose my mind. I thought I would lose my body and I thought I was going right into heaven.

15:44

By the end of that semester, it was so intense that I just felt like I was under satanic attack as I was starting this work.

15:53

And three years later, I think those three years were some of the hardest years

16:01

I've ever put in in my life. And I think the rewards of those both in my mind and in my spirit and in terms of how to study a subject deeply and to honor

16:14

Christ with all of our being, I think I'm thankful that the Lord carried me through to the end.

16:22

Pradeep, tell our listeners a little bit about the minefield of walking through academic studies, yet staying devotionally oriented toward the

16:36

Lord. In other words, we have to study, we have to increase in knowledge, but we want to be careful that that relates to how we then worship the

16:48

Lord, the tie -in between the two. There couldn't be a more difficult degree, a more rigorous degree, an academic degree, than getting a

16:57

PhD at Southern, yet you still have to be mindful of worship and devotion, and it just doesn't become all academically oriented.

17:07

How can other people who are listening today who really want to study the Bible, maybe at Bible college or online classes, keep a warm heart for the

17:17

Lord? I think there is two components to how you can keep your devotions strong.

17:26

The first thing is, as I mentioned in my MDiv, I went in recognizing that I needed to worship

17:33

God better. I needed to understand Him more. So everything that I was learning, I was always looking at it from the angle of,

17:40

Lord, it's a privilege to be here. Let me take this information that you're giving.

17:45

So as the professor was speaking, I wasn't critiquing him. I was always looking to say, you know, I'm like in church, and I'm here to worship.

17:52

And that was, I think, one of the reasons those four years of MDiv just went like, you know,

17:58

I was just filled in my soul. And then when it came to the PhD, that the manner of learning is a lot different because you get into one subject, you dig very deep into it.

18:10

One of the courses I took was Hinduism, where you need to actually study this religion.

18:16

And then my paper was on how does a Christian engage with Hinduism in the way in which they conceive of God?

18:26

And that's what started the dissertation for me as I finished up. And so when

18:31

I had to study something dry, philosophical, sometimes

18:36

I would feel like my heart was just empty and dry. And I needed to remember,

18:42

Lord, you have me here for a purpose. The subject I'm studying is intended so that I can be a better evangelist, that I can recognize the depravity of heart and mind that permeates this world and help me,

18:55

Lord, to study your word so I can counter and give the truth to people who do not know it.

19:00

So in this particular subject, it was harder than some other subject. In fact, later on,

19:06

I took biblical spirituality just because I needed a break. Pradeep, let's talk a little bit about apologetics and evangelism at a very high level, that is to say at a very sweeping overview, a general level.

19:24

Tell our listeners the difference between, for instance, presuppositional apologetics or classical or evidentialist approaches to apologetics because some might not even know there are different ways to carry on apologetics.

19:38

What are the main views of apologetics? Most people, probably not your listeners, because I think they are probably better educated than most other

19:47

Christians when it comes to biblical basis of apologetics.

19:53

Most Christians, myself included, when I thought of apologetics, I would think of classical, this very rigorous, logical approach to presenting the truth of God in a philosophical manner and then critiquing the non -Christian worldviews in terms of the breakdown of logic.

20:15

And that is what we would typically call a classical view. So when we think of the proofs of God, like made more popular by Aquinas, we normally think of, oh, that's apologetic.

20:27

This is how I prove that God exists. And then more recently, men like Josh McDowell, they bring out evidences that make a very strong case for Christianity.

20:40

So there are people who say the Bible is just made up by men who wrote a whole lot of stories much, much later.

20:50

And so now we have people who have researched and we can give evidences for the early writing of the scriptures.

20:56

We can talk about the data of the scripture, how it conforms with archeology.

21:01

There's a whole bunch of evidences that are available for the Christian today to use in presenting the truth to the unbeliever.

21:09

And that would be called evidential. Now, both classical and evidential are very helpful because they do take advantage of two specific sources of information.

21:22

One is logic, and God is a rational God. People are made in his image as rational beings, and therefore we can communicate to them using reason.

21:33

And we can provide these evidences that are just plain to see. Now, the problem with rationalism and evidentialism is that it tends to elevate the role of reason or the role of evidences.

21:48

What do I mean by that? Rationalism can tend to say, well, because reason can be a common ground of communicating the gospel between the believer and the unbeliever,

22:00

I can rely heavily upon reason alone in order to convince this person about the truth of the gospel.

22:06

Or likewise, the evidentialist can say, here we have data that seems to be clear, and therefore

22:15

I can bring this person who I'm speaking with to a neutral ground and then present that data, and they ought to be able to submit to the data that they see.

22:25

And I think the problem with rationalism and evidentialism is that it fails to recognize the root cause of the problem in the unbeliever, and which is a depraved heart.

22:38

And when man is fallen, yes, man is made in the image of God, but his fall affects his mind, his reason.

22:46

It affects his will and his intention in the way he is going to interpret the data that he sees.

22:53

And therefore, when we come to presuppositional apologetics, what we try to emphasize is the authority upon which our conversation rests.

23:07

It does not rest upon reason. It does not rest upon evidences in some neutral way that the unbeliever would acknowledge, but rather it rests upon God and his revealed word.

23:22

And one of the things that apologists tend to ignore is the data of scripture, and the presuppositionalist begins with the data of scripture.

23:31

We proclaim God, and then we can use the reason and evidences as supports in order to give the gospel in a clear way.

23:42

So we would say, I would say, that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, and we want to make the proclamation of the truth primary in when it comes to apologetics.

23:54

Pradeep, if I were to meet someone on the street, we've only got about a minute and a half left for this segment.

24:01

We're going to have you on next week as well. But what's the difference between a general call and apologetics?

24:07

Proclaiming this is who God is in light of that repent and believe versus apologetics.

24:12

Can you tell me an answer within one minute? If not, we just carry on next program.

24:20

Let me try. So when we meet someone, I really see the call for evangelism and the call to apologetics, a responsibility of every believer.

24:32

So when we meet someone on the road, we want to give them the gospel. We want to tell them who Christ is, who they are in the presence of this holy

24:39

God, and how they need to be right with God. And as you engage with the person, then you recognize through the conversation where they are, what their specific need is.

24:51

And many a time I would stick to this data of scripture and give a response that comes from the

24:58

Bible and communicate it in such a way that they understand that my authority rests on the scriptures and they need to submit to the scriptures as well.

25:09

And when we then follow up with conversation, let's say this person has a very specific worldview that he comes from, then

25:17

I would use the approach that I write about in my book, which is I would present my worldview, have them come into the

25:25

Christian worldview and understand it. And then I would walk into their worldview and showcase how their worldview does not comport with reason or it is unlivable in its implications if they lived out what they say they believe.

25:43

Pradeep, thanks for being on No Compromise Radio. We're gonna interview you for the next week's show in about five minutes, but thanks right now for being on the show.

25:50

Thank you. We'll see you next week.

26:21

508 -835 -3400. The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.