Catholics Are Saved Says Gavin Ortlund & Ruslan KD. Charismatic Theology + RocknRoll = Bad Theology?

Moore's Corner Church

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Hello, and thank you for watching this video. We're going to be looking at a clip from Gavin Ortlund and Ruslan so we're going to be talking about the

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Catholic Church justification by faith alone and I'm I'm afraid there's some compromise going on here with perhaps the gospel itself

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We've talked about Gavin Ortlund before how he was advocating for You know denying the worldwide flood and accepting the view of a localized flood the body of Christ would be better off if we taught a localized flood

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So I did a video on that but let's just listen to what they say because Ruslan seems to indicate

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He doesn't think that justification by faith alone, which is the gospel itself He doesn't seem to think that justification is an essential issue.

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What? Yeah, let's listen to the clip We talk a lot about as Protestants our view of Salvation saved by grace through faith alone, right and then

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I would say two good works I think that's how Ephesians 2 8 and 9 read by grace You've been right now your own doing and then verse 10 is like and you were created in Christ Jesus Verse 10 right your

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God's workmanship created Christ Jesus to do good works so justification you wouldn't put that as an essential area meaning that someone could get it wrong on the

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Mode of salvation and still be saved. Is that is that fair? Okay, so this is a tough one.

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This is tricky This is really nuanced. Yeah, so I would say justification itself is a first -rank issue

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Okay, because of Galatians, you know, you got Paul saying the Judaizers he's like giving anathemas here

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So this is serious stuff. Yes, but I would say there's parts of justification that it's not the whole doctrine

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It's it's just one understanding of it And so, you know someone who just denies Justification by faith alone versus some of the nuances that come out of how do you define the word justification?

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I think there's a lot of misunderstanding in the Roman Catholic Protestant discussion because they believe in initial

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Justification by faith alone and a lot of times Protestants don't realize that so there's more common ground

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I think between Protestant and Catholic than there is between like Paul and the Judaizers in Galatians But I also again

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I don't want to minimize the differences with Protestant and Catholic because there's a lot that comes in there So yeah, I mean we kind of need to talk through each thing, you know, so part of justification is that you have imputation

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Yes, it's Christ in his righteousness imputed to us from Christ. Yes. Part of it is how you define the word, you know, st

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Augustine I think st Augustine was a Christian but he has a definition of justification as God making us righteous

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So not just declaring us righteous, so it's a process So he says it as he just uses that term differently.

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Some of the differences are about terminology Yeah, you know because we we both believe there's Catholic and Protestant We both believe there's an initial change and declaration of forgiveness, but then we have to grow

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Uh -huh, but we use different terms to describe that But I but I I do have concerns about Roman Catholic theology in this area

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Even though I wouldn't say that they're outside of the kingdom or something like that But I do think just the lack of assurance of salvation as their view tends to breed

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I just think I have pastoral concerns about that All right, so a lot to get to first of all again the way

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Ruslan frames it he seems to think that maybe justification or he's asking at the very least that justification is not an essential issue and the mode of justification

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You know, you can still get that wrong and still be saved, right? Of course, this is the whole

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Heart of the Reformation the the issue in the Protestant Reformation was over this issue justification by Faith alone.

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Well, you can kind of get that wrong and still be saved and well okay, let's talk about this because This is a first -tier issue and Gavin Ortlund.

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I think knows that so he had not he acknowledges that yes this is a This is an essential

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Issue however, he goes on to explain it as though Well, maybe it's not because he seems to acknowledge that in one sense

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Catholics get this wrong but they initially get it right and they're not outside of the kingdom and Yeah, so first of all the

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Roman Catholic Church believes in a different gospel Okay, the Roman Catholic Church believes that Salvation is by faith plus works.

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Okay justification by faith plus Works plus the church plus the sacraments, right?

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plus Everything else within the Catholic system. You have to jump through all the hoops. Well The Protestants, okay.

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This was the again the whole issue of the Reformation the Protestants said no Salvation or justification is by faith

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Alone so Gavin Ortlund says that Rome he says they actually believe

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Initially like up front at first they do believe in justification by faith alone now,

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I don't believe that for a moment Either you do or you don't you can't say well they do

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Initially, but not later on no either you do or you don't Either you have the true gospel or you don't and the fact that Gavin Ortlund says that Catholics are not outside of the kingdom

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It's pretty clear indicator that he believes Catholics are saved.

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He says my issue is really just a pastoral issue how Catholics, you know tend towards not having the assurance of salvation, of course, it's more than that Catholicism teaches you

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It's not just you can't have the assurance of salvation The Catholic Church teaches you can never know whether you're saved or not

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You can live your life doing all the right things according to the Catholic Church at the end of your life

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You still need to get you know last rites and you still don't know if you're saved

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So they teach you can never know if you're saved they call it the sin of presumption

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So this is more than just lacking the assurance of salvation. They teach against that that you can't

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You can't even know if you're saved forget assurance. Yeah, it's it's a totally different system but Gavin Ortlund seems to Downplay that now does

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Gavin Ortlund not know Does he not know about the Reformation? Well, he does but he's a modern, you know, he's a modern charismatic

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Christian And you might not know that about him he actually in the full interview

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Ruslan has it broken up into clips but Gavin Ortlund admits to being a

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Charismatic, so he's more of a modernist. Okay, we've talked about this before some older videos.

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You can check out I talked about the modernist fundamentalist controversy, so Gavin Ortlund is a modernist he is also a

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Charismatic so if you look at Ruslan's channel, which I do not recommend

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Ruslan. Okay, it's Christmas time I want to be nice, but I do not wreck. I do not recommend him at all

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But if you look at his other videos He has one on Gavin Ortlund where they're talking about charismatic

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Christianity tongues and prophecy in Gavin admits that he is a charismatic and that he still thinks that God is giving new prophecy and Today, which if he believes that if it's truly a prophecy from God shouldn't you add it to the

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Bible? Of course, they don't suggest doing that But yeah, why does it matter that Gavin Ortlund is a charismatic don't miss this if you don't remember anything else

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I say remember this This is the whole Purpose.

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This is the whole goal of the charismatic movement to unite Protestants and Catholics The goal of the charismatic movement is to unite everyone together

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Protestants evangelicals Baptists Catholics unite everyone together

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Baptists United Methodists, you know the Pope Kenneth Copeland everybody, you know in Kenneth Copeland and the

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Pope have said together that the Reformation is over. They want to bring everyone to get this

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Is the goal of the charismatic movement? so I I See how this all makes sense, why would

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Gavin Ortlund a Protestant be saying this about the Catholic Church. Well, it's part of his theology.

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That's just the way it goes he's a modernist and he's Charismatic listen if you can't clearly say that Pope Francis teaches a completely different gospel

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I don't know what to tell you, but you're wrong. That's about all I can tell you Now I want to be clear could a

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Catholic be saved are you saying pastor Mike you saying that all Catholics are are unsaved well a

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Person could be a Roman Catholic and be saved But it wouldn't be now careful.

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Hear me out It wouldn't be because Rome's gospel is efficacious for salvation if a

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Roman Catholic got saved it would be Despite Catholic doctrine since many

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Catholics don't believe Catholic teaching but if someone is saved in the Catholic Church, I Really do believe that the

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Holy Spirit would have to Lead them out of the Catholic Church. So I am totally opposed to this idea that Protestants Catholics Oh, we were all saved we could all have you know fellowship like Billy Graham said he had wonderful fellowship with the

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Pope in the Catholic Church I'm 100 % against that and again if there's someone in the

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Catholic Church who gets saved because there is truth repeated They do read from the Bible.

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It's possible The priest could you know have scripture reading from Ephesians 2 and someone could hear that and trust in Christ and be saved

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But again, I believe that the Holy Spirit would have to draw them out of the Catholic Church So just so we're clear, but yes, this is the goal of the charismatic movement to unite

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Catholic and Protestant together and one last point they use music to do it

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Okay, and the same interview with Gavin Ortlund Ruslan defends the so -called rock and roll churches, right how?

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They say there is you know This revival going on among young people in these churches where they play rock and roll and there's just great

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Revival happening on college campuses and so many young people are being saved. There's a revival happening.

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It's like no there isn't okay I'm not saying nobody's getting saved obviously in the younger generation, but the younger generation

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You know the college age kids today. This is the most irreligious generation we have ever seen

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So this is another false narrative within the charismatic movement, you know, it's always revival revival

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You know the spirit of revival, you know the Asbury revival. I mean what happened to that?

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So what we need is not revival what we need is Reformation because there's people this is what

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I'm seeing in this interview They kind of want to forget about the Reformation or at least downplay the

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Reformation Martin Luther and the Pope they condemned each other and she well, that's not good.

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We don't want to do that. Well They both recognized that the other one had a different gospel

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Gavin Orland is not recognizing that so we need Reformation not revival.

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Okay, but back to the music This is how the charismatic movement operates.

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This is how they are spreading This is how they are uniting people through the music and it's usually the modern

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CCM rock and roll So doctrine is compromised for the sake of unity and the music gives people an emotional

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Experience where they feel good and because it feels right. They think it is right

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So it feels right therefore in their mind. They think this must be of God because it feels so good

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So just a warning Okay, say what why do

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I care? You know, how does this matter to me when a church gets rid of the hymns?

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Okay When a church decides, you know a new pastor comes in he decides to switch over and get in a rock band

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So the hymns are out. He brings in the rock band nine times out of ten They are not just bringing in new music.

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They are bringing in a new theology now Listen, I'm not just talking about superficial things.

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Like if your church has guitars then you have bad theology That's not what I'm saying.

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Please don't misunderstand me But when the old music goes out and the rock band comes in most of the time

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The new music because CCM music the new Modern praise music.

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I don't know. What is it? 98 % of it like the overwhelming Majority of that music is written by charismatics.

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So once that becomes the established music and practice in the church

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The theology comes in with the music again nine times out of ten Maybe there are exceptions

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There may be some good praise music that's not written by but this is a big danger put it this way if you're singing

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Bethel Elevation and Hillsong, how can your pastor oppose that theology when he knowingly and willingly?

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Brings their music into the church. So it's like a Trojan horse So in conclusion,

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I love the local church and I love it because it's the body of Christ So I'm not trying to single out

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Charismatics if you're charismatic and you watch this channel, okay, I'm not against you It's just the way this tends to shake out

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I speak against some things that Southern Baptist churches and reformed churches do so it's just whatever

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You know, I'm seeing but this is the way it often shakes out because I watched this interview about Rome between Ruslan and Gavin Ortlund and he says this about The gospel and justification by faith.

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I'm like, where's this coming from? I thought Gavin Ortlund was Reformed Protestant and then he admits to being a charismatic and then they were talking about the rock and roll music and it's like, okay

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It it's all making sense now. Okay. Thanks for watching. Stay vigilant

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Remember, there is only one true gospel salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

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There's only one true gospel and the Pope doesn't have it. Alright. Thanks for watching Merry Christmas and until next time may the