Hermeneutics I: Careful Listening | Behold Your God Podcast

Welcome to the Behold Your God podcast. As you tell I'm not Matthew Robinson, I'm Teddy James. I'm gonna be sitting in for this series.

We've, John, you and Matt, you spent the last couple of weeks, beginning of 2020, talking about spiritual counsels and how we can start the year off well.

Well now we're gonna take a little bit of a different dive and we wanna talk about some of the fundamental principles of a really big word.

I had a professor in college who used to call certain words nickel words, and dime words, and quarter words, and this one is definitely a quarter word, it's hermeneutics.

So what is the word hermeneutics? Yeah, when we talk about interpreting scripture, hermeneutics often is a word that shows up, especially if you're stuck in school behind a desk.

So hermeneutics sounds confusing, it's really very simple term, just means your method for interpreting a text.

And actually it's a word that applies to any text, whether you're looking at Shakespeare, or Homer's Iliad, but we're talking about the scripture.

So how do we approach the book that God gave us? In a way that that book wants us to approach it, and in a way that gives us a set of very concrete principles to know that we're interpreting the text correctly.

Yeah, and there are things in particular about when you're reading. Now I'm a literature nerd,

I love literature, and so there's a difference between when we're listening and when we're reading.

So what are some of those differences? Yeah, the Bible is unique in the sense that it is a book that you have to listen to.

Meaning that, and the difference between having a conversation with someone or listening to someone and reading like a letter that they wrote you.

If they send you an email, you can open it anytime. A lot of times people will say to me as a pastor, like, hey, can

I call you? I wanna talk about such and such. And sometimes I have to say, I'm in a meeting, but if you send it to me in an email,

I can read it when I have time. So I'm in control of that. I can read it when I wanna read it.

I read it as quickly as I wanna read it. I read as much as I wanna read. But in a conversation, face -to -face, then we're no longer in control.

The other person picks the content. The other person picks the pace, how much they wanna say.

And then as a listener, we have to kind of consciously submit to that, that I'm willing to let that person guide the conversation.

So when we come to Scripture, though it is a written text, there is also a divine voice that is behind this.

And these written words really are, we have to approach them like we do a conversation where God Himself is speaking.

And we have to submit ourselves to that. We're not free to come and go anytime we want. We're not free to just pick up pieces that we like and be careless with other pieces.

Our job is to be careful listeners so that we get everything

He wants us to have and in the right proportion. Yeah, now there's a lot of ways. You said a phrase there, a careless listener.

And there's a lot of ways that we can be those careless listeners. Even if we are reading our

Bibles every day, you can be a daily careless listener.

You can be a daily selective listener. John, you have grown kids, I have very young kids.

One thing our kids, I think, have in common is the selective hearing bit. So how do we know if we're being a careless listener and how do we know, because we're gonna talk about these fundamental principles on how and tools we have to be careful listeners and to not be selective listeners.

But I think before we even get into that, we really need to be able to identify, am

I being careless? Am I being selective? So how do we know that? Well, I think we have a couple of helps, kind of road markers, signs on the edge of the road.

One is, in my opinion, a starting place. Am I starting from humility?

You know, there's a false humility when we come to the Bible and we say things like this. This book is just so wonderful.

It's so above me. There's no hope. I can't understand this.

I'm not a professional. That's a false humility. God gave us a book. We'll talk about that in a minute. But God gave us the book and it's perfectly designed for people like us.

But then there's the true humility that says, God, I'm a bit overwhelmed with the thought of coming to your word and understanding every chapter.

Like, really? But you are the one I'm depending on.

So starting with humility. But another thing is like, so the starting place, but then there's the destination. One way that I try to test myself and ask myself, have

I understood this passage correctly? Is, do I have the same response that the writer of the Bible has? So for instance, you're reading through, you know, the letters of Paul.

And so Romans one through 11, or yeah, one through 11. So you've got all this doctrine.

And there's some pretty deep spots, you know, that you're thrown in the deep end of the swimming pool in some spots.

You get to the end of chapter 11 and Paul just bursts out in a doxology, in a praise to God for the wisdom and the grace and the mercy and the perfection of redemption that we've seen in the person and work of Jesus Christ.

So one test is this, well, do I feel that way? I mean, could I almost have written that, not as beautifully and perfectly, but could

I almost have written that? When I read that, do I think, yep, Paul, I'm already there with you? That's my response to, then

I think, that's a good test, am I interpreting scripture correctly? Am I coming to the same conclusions?

Is it making the same changes in my life, you know, practical differences in my marriage and family that I see that Paul says it should make?

And it's almost as if you arrive at the same place with Paul and you say, okay, I'm still on the right track. But another thing, and this is what we're gonna focus on for a few episodes is, is my methodology for approaching scripture the same methodology that I see the apostles using?

And there are some basic principles that we wanna talk about, or we could kind of think of it as a tool chest. Do we use these tools?

And if we're using these tools, then that is a really, it's a good guide.

It's an assuring thing that, okay, I am on the right track, you know, as much as I know how to be.

Yeah, and some of these tools we're gonna talk about are, we use them without thinking about them. Yeah, yeah, some of these we already do because we hear preachers preach, we read books, we read commentaries.

And so these patterns, we're already doing them. But it's good to be able to name them and identify them and articulate them.

Yeah, it's good to tighten up and make sure that we're clear. Well, and again, the reason we're doing this is because we want to be careful whole council listeners.

So we've kind of talked about how we can listen well and be careful how we listen.

We'll link to that episode in the show notes. That was a long time ago, John. That was one of our earliest episodes.

So at the foundation of all of this, there's two truths that we really need to focus on. One is that the

Bible was written in a way that it's fundamentally clear and it applies to our life.

So, and this is how we're very different than our Roman Catholic friends. Yeah, so the old writers used to say that the

Bible is fundamentally perspicuous. Now that perspicuous word may no longer be perspicuous because it means understandable and clear.

That is, when we look at all matters for faith and practice, what am

I supposed to believe about you, God? And how do you want me to live this out?

Those two great categories when we think of scripture. The Bible is given to us in a way that it is fundamentally understandable.

This is not written in a strange language we don't know. This is not hidden in a hermit's cave on top of a mountain that we're supposed to climb and have some strange experience.

And as you mentioned, the difference between Protestants and Catholics in part is the place where we push, where we would see the authority of the

Bible. As a Protestant, we don't believe that we need our local priest to tell us how to understand this book.

We don't need the Pope to tell us. We don't even need maybe the councils of churches in years past or a denomination that fundamentally

God has written the book in such a way that every believer, if the believer approaches the book in the right way, can come to a sufficient understanding of what we're supposed to believe and how we're supposed to live.

Yeah, and that really does answer a lie from the enemy and the temptation. So many are tempted to believe that when

I come to the Bible, I'm just not smart enough. I haven't read enough. I haven't listened enough. I haven't done this enough or that enough.

The Bible is written to be understood. Now, that doesn't mean that every passage is easy to understand.

There's hard work involved, but it is written in a way that the believer can understand it. And when those difficult passages come, we have the

Holy Spirit in us who will help us. So it's like you were saying earlier, the way we approach it is humility, on dependence, independence on God for his help in reading and understanding and in applying the scriptures.

Yeah, so think about the Old Testament, Jeremiah chapter 31, the old covenant prophet tells us about a new covenant coming.

And he gives us, to encourage Israel, he gives them a whole list of extraordinary privileges that the new covenant will contain.

And he says this, in Jeremiah 31, the prophet writes, but this is the covenant which

I make, which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord, I will put my law within them and on their heart

I will write it and I will be their God and they shall be my people. Now, do we have that in the new covenant?

Yes, in the new birth, the law of God suddenly is written within. It's not that the external law doesn't mean anything anymore, but no

Christian lives the Christian life by wearing a straight jacket of I have to be really well -behaved.

Something inside of me wants to obey that law. And then he goes on to say this, and they will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, know the

Lord, for they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, declares the Lord. Something about the new covenant.

We understand when we read the New Testament, John talks about it. In first John chapter two, there is an anointing.

He says, you have the anointing. He's talking about the Holy Spirit. You have the Holy Spirit. And he teaches you.

So the Spirit as our instructor, the Word of God in front of us, the Christian has everything they need to know

God. Now, there are some implications though that we need to be careful about. Yeah, because it doesn't mean that, okay, well, if I can come to Scripture and I can interpret

Scripture, then I can do that alone. We're not a free agent. And no

Christian is ever made to be an island. We have 2000 years of church history that we can look back on.

And if you're the first person in 2000 years to interpret Scripture in a particular way, that should be a really big red flag for you.

But it also means that it's going to be hard work, but it's going to be rewarding. Yeah, if we didn't have those two fundamental things, that the

Bible is written in a way that is understandable and that God gives the

Spirit to His children who helps them to interpret the Scripture, then we would think when we hit hard passages, like, well, what's the use?

Why keep digging? There's no treasure there for me. There is for preachers and professors, but not for average people.

And I do think that you mentioned that it can be difficult. Sometimes, you mentioned before we started filming, we were talking about exercise.

Especially around the turn of the new year, everybody, man, the gym is a miserable place to be because everybody's showing up at the gym like, okay, got to get rid of the

Christmas extra pounds. And you're in there and you're hurting all over. And sometimes, it's the first time that you've been in a place to exercise.

You don't even know how to use this stuff. Oftentimes, I walk into a gym and there's new fangled stuff. And I look around and I think,

I don't want to look as dumb as I am, but I don't know what to do with this thing. I went to a hotel one time with traveling, and so I would try to exercise.

And I went to this thing and there was just this big, flat, round platform.

And you got on it and push buttons and it jiggled all around. And I don't know what it's, I still don't know what it's for. And so I would sit on it,

I would lay on it, I would stand on it. I thought, I don't really know what I'm, it was kind of fun, but I don't think it helped me.

We come to the Bible and we think, this is hard work, but it's good to remember, look, it's not easy for everybody else.

Everyone finds it. I'm a pastor, I find it hard work. I have a library, I still find it hard work.

But I think that what keeps us going when we meet difficult times, other than the truth that, look,

God will help you, don't despair. The other thing is appetite.

If you're hungry, you'll dig. It, you know, just think of the metaphor of mining.

Job talks about the riches of God's wisdom are like the gems and the gold veins under the earth and men risk their lives and live underground half their life just to get these gems.

You know, I mean, they dig tunnels and they're like, they become these underworld dwellers just to get the gold.

And, you know, so obviously the wisdom that comes from God is worth more than that. But do we stop digging when it's hard work?

Well, not if we think there's something really worth it. Sometime back, I had trouble keeping my dog in my yard.

So I put a fence up, then my dog dug under the fence. And so I filled in the hole, then he dug another hole.

So I said, well, the fence isn't working. Let's put one of those collars on. And I had to bury that electric wire around the perimeter of our yard so the dog would stop.

Well, there were parts in my yard that I had to cross my driveway, which was a gravel driveway, but it had been packed down for years.

So I took a shovel and tried to dig up the gravel. I couldn't do it. I took a pickaxe and, you know,

I really just about quit and thought, forget, just let the dog run free. I can't get through this stuff. If you hit hard spots and you're not convinced that there really is, that you really will get to the bottom of a text and there really is something there for you, then you just quit.

So don't quit. Remember that God gave you the book and he gives you a spirit. And also, I think that's a sign of maturity as well.

When I look at my kids right now, they, when something becomes very difficult, especially if it was easy in the beginning, as many things are, right?

You start something, you're excited about it, it's easy to do and you want to keep doing because it's easy, but then you hit a hard spot and the temptation is,

I'm done. And I think that there is a childish approach that says, okay, when it gets hard, I'm gonna move on to something else.

But when we have that desire, and look, you can't muster up the desire.

We come to the scriptures, particularly difficult, but really all passages of scripture, in a reliance on God.

And we have to do that. And when we lose sight of that, then yeah, I think that's when our appetite, our desire will lessen for scripture.

But as we come in dependence on Christ, dependence on the spirit, the desire, even in those hard passages will only increase.

Well, let's hit some of the tools. Yeah, so the first one is to remember that the

Bible is a progressive revelation. Now, what do we mean by progressive revelation? What we mean is a simple picture.

It's like our father leads us up to a window and let's say there's a curtain across the window and he takes his hand and he begins to pull it back.

And ultimately, when we get to look through the full window without any curtain, we are gonna see all these truths about the person of God, especially, and the truths about ourself.

But at the heart of the scene that we're seeing through the window is the person and work of Christ, the great redemption of Christ.

So the Bible is this unveiling, but it is a progressive unveiling. So that means while Genesis says things to us that are every one of them is perfectly true, you don't know as much about these things reading

Genesis as you will know later when you're reading the prophets and then later in the New Testament.

So as we read the scripture, we expect to have an ever clearer, ever brighter display of these truths.

And so that means that when we read our Old Testament to get the clearest picture of some of these difficult passages in the

Old Testament, you go to the New Testament and the New Testament says things like the book of Hebrews says some things in the

New Testament and says, well, this is what that was talking about. And then you go back to the Old Testament and you kind of fill in with the

New Testament detail, the high definition detail, you fill in the pencil sketches of the Old Testament and you step back and you say, now

I realize that every believer can have a clearer picture of God than Abraham had or a clearer picture of the coming of the

Messiah than Isaiah had because we have the full revelation. God has fully pulled back that veil now.

So, but as we study the Bible, there is a progressive, ever clearer and deeper understanding of those truths.

Yeah, and that very idea just gets me so excited about the scripture because it reveals so much about the

Bible. And if you believe in the progressive revelation of scripture, then you also reveal that there is something it is progressively revealing and it is the person of Christ.

And we get to see him slowly. It's almost like in the beginning, the light is there, but it's so dim.

And you can see, you know, you've mentioned in previous podcasts, it's a silhouette, you know, that used to hang above mantles and whatever, but it's this silhouette and you can make out the shape, but only barely.

And as you get deeper and deeper into the scriptures, you're seeing with more detail, more depth even.

And then finally in the book of Revelation, so we see in the gospels, the suffering servant, and that is a full revelation of Christ, but there's even more because in Revelation, we come with the reigning king.

Yeah, so that's a good point, you know, progress. We are moving toward a goal. We are moving toward a climax.

Compare scripture, the way scripture is written with an owner's manual, all right? Because some people think,

I mean, I have heard people say like, the Bible is like the owner's manual for life. I actually don't like that phrase, that description, because I think it's just not accurate.

It is the most important book for us. It is the book that reveals life to us. But I don't know any book in the

Bible that says how to raise kid, how to have a marriage, how to do a Christian business, how should

I dress, how should I eat? I mean, the Bible wasn't laid out in those topics. Why is it laid out in the way it is?

Because it is that there's a progression. We are headed somewhere. Like you said, the glory of Christ is the goal.

But if you think about it, when you go to an owner's manual, you just turn to the section, I just need to know this. Like if my car's busted, how do

I replace the light bulb? Or how do I replace the fuse? Or what do I do about this? But I don't read the owner's manual from beginning to end, and at the end,

I'd say, man, it ended up culminating in a car, it's great, you know? I only use it in a utilitarian way.

But when we read the Scripture, like you said, there is that added quality that it's not just truths that I need, but they are laid out in such a way that we are moving toward a goal that is greater than the sum of all that's led up to it.

And it is so intimately connected with my happiness and the glory of my

King. And so we really want to just, we want to follow the pattern that God has given us and end where He ends.

So progressive revelation. Yeah, keep that in mind, especially, you know, most people who started in January doing or reading the

Bible through the year. And have quit already. Well, they're now probably in like Leviticus and Numbers.

Some of those really difficult passages, but remember, there is a purpose for those passages.

And it is revealing the character of Christ. So what is the next tool that we're wanting to look at?

I think the next tool we could say, very simple. We do this already, but we want to make sure we're careful to do it.

And that is that context is, we could say context is king. Sometimes people come to a

Bible passage that they find difficult. And, you know, and so because preachers do this, people say, man,

I don't know the original languages. I wonder, so it says here, you know, so it says here the word faith.

I wonder what that means in the original. So they get a word study book, which is good.

And they look up this and they say faith means like this. And oh, that's, and that can be helpful, but more helpful than studying each individual

Greek word or each individual Hebrew word is to understand how that word is being used in the context because words aren't always used the same way every time.

And so the context of when is God saying this? How is it connected to what's comes before it and after it is a paramount importance, especially if we don't want to warp a passage.

There are passages in the New Testament that are so wonderful and they are true. And they're so wonderful and that we're tempted to think they're too good to be true.

So for instance, Jesus will say to us in the Gospels, if you ask anything in my name, my father will give it to you.

If you take a wonderful phrase like that and lift it out of its context and you put it on a plaque or a, you know, a t -shirt or a bumper sticker, that, you know, it sounds very encouraging, but how long are you gonna go in life as a

Christian before you start thinking, actually, that doesn't work? Well, no, it doesn't work the way you think it should work because you took it out of its context.

So when we come to any wonderful phrase, any wonderful verse, context is important for interpretation.

In other words, look at the immediate context. How does this phrase fit into the whole verse or this verse fit into its paragraph?

What, so if we take a letter of Paul, what's Paul been saying right before this and what does he say right after this?

And that helps me keep that in the context of the conversation. I understand that one statement and I don't bend it, you know, then you look at the chapter, the paragraph, how does that paragraph fit into the chapter?

How does the chapter fit into this whole book? What's Paul talking about in Colossians? What's the general theme and why does it show up here?

And then even how does that fit into the teaching of like the New Testament or the scripture? So that sounds really daunting, but really you just need to stop when you're looking at a passage and say, why does it fall where it falls in this chapter or in this book?

And does that help me to understand how I'm supposed to approach it? One of the things we love most about going to conferences is interacting with people who have gone through our studies or seen the films and hearing the way that they've influenced their families, their small groups, or their churches.

Eventually we started asking if they would let us record those stories so that we could share them with you. Scott and Paul took their church through Behold Your God, Rethinking God Biblically last year, and they're currently taking the church through Behold Your God, The Weight of Majesty.

I thought the first one was wonderful from the perspective of all the church history. Was a really neat element that added to I had not been exposed to in other

Bible studies. Hearing about the great fathers of the faith and learning about them and then applying that to the studies of God and how they emphasized who

God was. You just don't hear that. We hadn't heard that in the churches we'd been attending. It just tells us about and helps us with understanding

God biblically. And really got into understanding, have a high view of God and a low view of self, which is usually the reverse of what we have.

Talks about really the understanding, well, what does

God say about evangelism? What does God say about worship? How does God want to be worshiped?

Is it about us or is it about God? What's the most important? And so there's just so many great things that we learned and really want to share with others, and this is a great mechanism for doing so.

For more information about Behold Your God, The Weight of Majesty, visit themeansofgrace .org.

So we spent a lot of time talking about the fundamental ways that we need to be approaching the scriptures. We want to be careful listeners.

We don't want to be selective listeners. And John, we also want to really understand these fundamental principles that we've only gotten to two of so far.

Yeah, we just want to remind ourselves. We have a book which

God wrote for us through using human altars. It is the voice of God.

We want to be good stewards of this treasure. We have the perfect material to craft and to fashion into a life.

And so we've just looked at the first two of six principles we're gonna be looking at.

The fact that it's progressive revelation and that context is king.

We're gonna pick up with the next fundamentals next week. We'll see you then.