BONUS: Greg Moore of The Dead Men Walking Podcast Responds to Ligon Duncan & The "Moscow Mood"

Dead Men Walking

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:01

Well, hello everyone. Welcome back to a special dead men walking podcast episode I guess you could call it or what

00:08

I'm calling it is a response video or a reaction video I don't do these too often, but recently

00:15

Ligon Duncan had answered a question about the Moscow mood and I've seen this going making its rounds on social media and responses to it and I wanted to respond to it and watch it.

00:28

I've watched it through one time and We're gonna watch it through and I might pause it and just give some comments on it full disclosure for those of you

00:36

Watching or listening? I have been to every single fight left feast conference which is a conference that the guys who attend

00:48

Doug Wilson's church put on since 2020 I've Broadcasted from those both live and pre -recorded with my podcasting equipment every time out there

00:58

I'm also part of the fight left feast Network as of four or five months ago. So I want to give that full disclosure

01:05

Just because you might go. Well, this seems a little biased in your opinion But at the same time,

01:11

I think it gives me some insight as someone who lives in Michigan They're in Idaho And as someone who attends doesn't attend their church.

01:21

I tend a totally different Church. I am reformed Presbyterian but not part of Doug's Church or Toby Sumpter pastor

01:29

Toby Sumpter's Church But I'm just going to talk about a little bit about my experiences among those, you know 1 ,500 2 ,000 men and women on all of those different Fight left feast conferences.

01:44

I've been to and part of that kind of Moscow mood So I just wanted to say that up front, but we've got the video up here

01:50

So let's hit play and we'll get into it. Here we go It's not meant to be like a clickbaity kind of move for the views question

01:57

But so just know what's coming? Okay, right there really quick. Yeah, he knew it was gonna be clickbaity.

02:03

Come on. He's asking about the Moscow mood You know, I don't know who the interviewer is

02:08

But yeah, that doesn't doesn't mean to be clickbaity, but probably one of his most watched videos ever

02:14

But you know give him give him grace here Maybe he didn't really mean that but I would say you'd have to understand that something like this would probably go viral

02:22

I Genuinely want to know thoughts on the Moscow mood conversation.

02:29

Yeah Yeah, I really Kevin did a

02:34

Service to us writing on that I think Kevin realized that he was gonna take a lot of incoming on that He told me probably a month or two before he was ready to release that For those watching

02:48

I think he's talking about Kevin de Young did an article a few, you know six months ago I think now and just gave his critique of the

02:55

Moscow mood and guys like Doug Wilson The guys from cross -politic they basically came out and said hey this this is fair And they reached out to him and said we we would love to have conversations with you on it

03:07

It wasn't something that was scathing Obviously there was things in there that I think those guys disagreed with in the article that I read there were some things and Presuppositions and assumptions made that I would disagree with with Kevin, but and I'm not

03:19

I don't want to speak on their behalf But that's the article he's referring to and you can find it if you type in Kevin de

03:25

Young Moscow mood It's interesting and gave me sort of an early Draft of it.

03:31

I think that's a good warning to send right now I think there there are some people in our culture

03:38

Today who are saying that here this is the model of faithfulness lob grenades

03:44

Okay, really quick. I would want him to define what he means there You're gonna notice that Duncan is going to use a lot of generalities and not really back it up with anything in this video

03:55

Which I always find frustrating. That's just the way I talk and communicate if I'm giving an idea

04:01

Generally, I might give a specific example or try to define it We just have to do that in our culture

04:06

And I found it a little bit annoying that there was just a lot of general things thrown and I know he's just answering a

04:12

Question quickly, maybe you didn't want to you know, make the video 30 minutes long This whole entire thing is maybe six minutes long, but I would like to know what do you mean by lob grenades?

04:20

Are you talking about a video that comes out once a year in November from Pastor Doug Wilson? Like what are we talking about here?

04:27

Give some examples He doesn't fails to do that, which like I said, I'm always wary of people who just talk in generalities.

04:34

I want specific I want terms defined. I want literal examples real -world examples.

04:40

I just didn't find that here But that's probably my first gripe about this, but you'll see as we go on and And and I think

04:48

I think it's really good for guys like Kevin who himself Kevin's got back

04:53

But right Kevin is willing right to speak into things that he knows are gonna get people upset

04:59

He's down for the fight. He's down for it Okay, so I don't know Kevin personally. I don't follow

05:04

Kevin I've never really seen any of his content except for that article. So we'll just take his word on that But that doesn't mean that You are the most faithful when you are lobbing the most grenades indiscriminately in every direction

05:20

Okay, so this is a false equivalency too because he doesn't give any examples and he says, you know, you're not the most faithful if you

05:28

Lob the most grenades and he's kind of he's been asked this question about the Moscow mood So we have to assume that's what he's talking about and I'm gonna get into my

05:35

Experiences a little bit like I said in the Moscow mood and in kind of hanging out for three four or five days with these guys and being part of the conferences

05:45

I've never heard anyone utter from leadership down that you are the most faithful if you're doing it this way if you're lobbing

05:52

Grenades once again, that's not defined if he's talking about using satire and and using things that exaggerate

06:00

Stupid points which we'll get into what satire mocking is and slander and things like that I've never heard anyone from that Moscow mood that greater circle now

06:09

Look at you can't account for every single person that says I follow or I really enjoy Cross -politic or Doug Wilson or Jared Langshor, you can't account for every single person

06:20

I'm talking about the thousands of people I've interacted with over four or five years and the

06:26

Hundreds of people that I've had dinner with or extended conversations with So I've never heard that uttered once so once again,

06:33

I think he's making a generality here that just doesn't fit Yeah, and when you are doing clickbaity stuff on, you know, it's it's one thing to to LARP Faithfulness and courage on social media.

06:45

It's another thing to do it in real life okay, so this is what I have an issue with too because once again what

06:52

I found with anyone outside of those circles are not Involved with Moscow or fight -laugh -feast or the

06:59

Moscow mood in general They have an idea of what it is based on maybe a few videos a year

07:06

That are yeah that are satire that can become Exaggerated that are satire by definition is the use of humor irony or exaggeration to express or criticize people

07:18

Stupidity or vices. Yeah, we'll get to where satire was used all the time in the

07:23

Bible because I don't think Duncan Makes a case for it here and you'll see a little bit in the video

07:29

But these guys and I say these guys now I'm using a generality But I'm saying the ones that I've seen kind of attack this

07:35

Moscow mood Kevin Duncan here. They have an assumption in their mind

07:41

They kind of have this thing in their mind of what it is and then they attack it and it's like well You've never been there.

07:46

You never interacted with these guys. You've never done a hundreds of hours of audio Podcasts and video podcasts with them.

07:54

You haven't hung out with them for three four five six days at a time You're not on the network. You don't know what goes on there and you're basing it off of I think videos or a month of videos

08:05

That have a very specific purpose that aren't necessarily the complete image of what the

08:10

Moscow mood is It's a part of it. I would say but Once again, very general and creating this in his mind without having any experience of it.

08:19

So so let's go on He's talking about live -action roleplay. That's what LARPing is He's saying there's people live -action role -playing biblical masculinity, but let's continue and And and I you've got a lot of live -action role -playing going on in the social media world from guys

08:36

Acting like they're tough that put them in a room and you'd have them in a fetal position in three seconds

08:42

Okay, I want to point something out right here first of all, first of all, he's saying a lot of guys on social media

08:48

So he's not specifically saying the Moscow mood, but the question was about that So he so we have to assume he was asked a question about the

08:55

Moscow mood and now he's saying well a lot of guys on social media are acting tough and masculine and all these things now notice what he goes to of His idea of what masculinity is the very first thing he does is he makes a physical threat?

09:08

Oh, I know a lot of guys that would go in that room and they would have them in a fetal position so he's making he thinks masculinity in his mind is just all about a physical strength and Threatening and bullying and pushing around your weight so to speak and here's the truth of the matter guys

09:26

Thousands of people I've interacted with at fight laugh peace I've had I've had hours of conversations with pastor

09:31

Doug Wilson pastor Toby Sumner with chocolate Knox with Gabe wrench Okay, all the thousands of people who attend their husbands and wives lots of children

09:41

They're the heck with the last one. We went to had over four or five hundred kids there. Okay, a lot of families Here's here's the thing.

09:47

There is none of that at those at those rallies or conferences

09:53

None of that bravado. None of that. Hey, I'm a tough guy None of that stick my chest out and I'll show you how tough

10:00

I am bullying and you got to be stronger or you're not A man, there's there's none of that What is there is quiet strength in biblically serving the church biblically serving their wife and loving them biblically raising their children and Disciplining them and bringing them up in the ways the

10:18

Lord and his covenant That's what I see I see a lot of guys walking around that have quiet strength that have a big stick and they carry it

10:27

Carry a big stick and talk quietly or talk softly as the saying goes And believe me there's tough guys there there are guys there that keep themselves physically fit that are physically strong Emotionally mentally strong.

10:40

I've probably met 50 55 people where we've compared what type of weapons we carry conceal

10:45

There's a lot of concealed carry guys at those conferences. No one's brandishing weapons. No one's talking about You know what what they shot or the gunfight they got in and let's be very clear for all the softies out there

10:58

And I'm sorry if that sounds mean but I'm saying the people who are very soft towards us and go Oh my gosh guns at a

11:04

Christian conference. Oh, you're just a bunch of brandishing, you know, Second Amendment, whatever the best gunfight is the one that doesn't happen and When I've talked to the 50 -plus guys who can still carry there.

11:14

We all agree on that Also, I have to say on that note I will ask guys how many rounds do you fire out of your personal weapon every year?

11:23

and if the answer is less than 500 used to be a thousand but now I know with time and it's kind of expensive with ammo,

11:29

I my my my minimum is you got to fire 500 rounds out of your gun every year or I Can't even trust you to carry a gun at that point.

11:36

Like you need to know your weapon I fire one to two thousand rounds depending on the year out of multiple weapons out of my daily carry at least a thousand rounds

11:45

A year. I'm very accurate with it. I know how to handle it I know where it is on my body at all times and the majority of those guys know that so here's a strength a bib

11:55

Biblical masculine strength in self -defense that is that is guarded that is strength in in Peace that is they're gentle, but they're strong.

12:07

It's not this bravado So he's coming from the outside and you got to realize Duncan's very first idea to kind of get a dig in at the

12:15

Moscow Mood is oh, they're just all we need to physically Intimidate them.

12:21

I think he's thinking biblical masculinity or masculinity in general from these guys is a physical threat

12:28

I'd have him in the fetal position or they'd have him in the fetal position that shows you how little he actually knows what he's talking

12:34

About that. That's how little he knows. He's making all these assumptions and I'm just telling you This is someone who's been to Five years worth of fight laugh feast and talk to thousands of people who've been there literally thousands

12:46

I have a booth there and hundreds of people stop by every single day I've been to four to five years where I think this is my fifth year.

12:52

So I've talked to a lot of people there Okay, so I would point that out that that's where his mind automatically goes

12:59

But let's keep listening and and that's it's not good for that voice to influence our young folks

13:05

We are gonna have to cultivate backbone Okay. Yeah, we have to cultivate backbone and he's saying it's not good for that voice.

13:12

That's a false assumption Yeah, that's not the voice that's being put out there. Please come to a fight lab feast conference

13:18

Come come to the Moscow mood and see what's going on there It's a lot of guys loving their wives loving their children praising and singing psalms to the

13:26

Lord Listening to good theology being taught going out afterwards and singing psalms in the public square.

13:32

It's a lot of laughter It's a lot of joking. It's a lot of brotherly and sisterly love in Christ.

13:38

That's that's what it is So this whole false kind of die card false premise he has set up of Oh, that's not the kind of stuff we went out

13:47

Of course, we don't want that kind of masculinity where we're gonna go in and threaten someone into the fetal position He's making that up in his own mind.

13:53

That just simply doesn't happen in the circles of the Moscow mood So let's continue but we're also going to have to cultivate a love for the world that hates us

14:03

I bill Davis who teaches it at Covenant College says that the most common student the question that he gets from his philosophy students is

14:11

Dr. Davis teach me how to love a world that hates me Yeah, you know how you do that. You preach the gospel and you model

14:18

Christ in speech thought in action That's how you get that and if the Lord elects to draw them on to himself

14:24

That's how you get the world to love you and I would also say

14:30

How we would love the world, excuse me I would also say what is he talking about when he's saying love because a lot of times with This Big Eva crowd and we'll get into Big Eva because he touches on this

14:40

I'm in the Big Eva crowd. We have to define what love means. Does love mean acceptance? Does love mean encouragement of your sin?

14:46

Absolutely not and Christ would agree Christ said as much in the Bible So what does love mean?

14:52

and he's using the word love as you'll see later in the video to mean a Kind of acceptance a softening of not calling out.

15:00

Don't be so harsh. Don't be so strong Principled or backboned or or use a satire to call out sin

15:08

Ah, that's gonna turn people away from Christ and I would have to disagree. But let's let's move on And that you know,

15:16

I said, I want them. I don't want them to get any of their signals from the world I want them to get all their signals from the

15:22

Bible. I want them to Yeah, let's talk about that let's talk about the signals from the Bible we should be getting and he's gonna bring it up later

15:29

So I'm not gonna get on everything but the signals I see is I see You know Paul using satire all the time

15:37

Tell you know, you know, he called out two guys in what was it? First Timothy 1 18 and 20 said

15:42

I turned him over to Satan And in Galatians 5 11 and 12, he says hey if you'll have circumcision so much.

15:48

Why don't you just cut it off to a nub? Are you telling me that isn't some type of satire or exaggeration or You know, you know to use to criticize a stupid point.

15:57

I see Jesus calling here at a Fox I mean the list

16:03

I see Elijah using that horrible potty language. Maybe your gods on the toilet Maybe if you cut yourself a little deeper, maybe if you scream a little louder, maybe he's relieving himself right now

16:12

You're God and then after he's done Relieving himself after he's done taking a dump. He'll come to you and send fire from heaven.

16:20

So I see Ridicule and in satire being used all the time and even in Elisha's I would say that was a type of mocking

16:28

So let's see what he has to say here They be faithful to the whole panoply of Christian doctrine, but I want them thinking how can

16:35

I reach out to this lost world? How can I love people that hate me not how can

16:41

I make them hate me more? How can I demoralize and demean them with every word that I say, how can

16:47

I okay, hold on I got a pause here for a minute. So how can I I don't want them to hate me more

16:53

Here's a reality check for you Like in the world already hates you if you truly love

16:59

Christ if you serve Christ if you preach Christ crucified If you preach reprint repentance if you preach against sin the world hates you

17:09

Because they are depraved and they love their sin and they're in rebellion against God and they don't want to leave their sin

17:16

They want it. They coddle it they spoon it Okay, so the world already hates you.

17:22

It's not how can I get how can I get the world to like me? Okay, they already do now Hear me out.

17:28

Does that mean that we say ridiculous things and mock people with for no reason?

17:35

Absolutely, not do we criticize their looks do we say, you know all these different things that we can do No, that's not what

17:41

I'm saying But I'm saying this thing of well If we can just be neutral and just get them to like us first Then that'll show them that we love them and and then they'll see that Christ loves them and you guys this comes from 50 to 60 plus years of sermons of of the of the

17:56

Buddhist saying that like God loves the sinner Hates the sin, but loves the sinner that God loves you right where you are

18:03

I'm sorry, but God does not love you right where you are because right where you are. You're a depraved sinner in rebellion against God God's love is conditional.

18:13

It's not unconditional There are conditions that need to be met There is repentance that needs to happen before there is the salvific the saving love of Christ So so this whole thing has been kind of built on a foundation of this in Western Christianity, but I digress

18:31

I'm getting off here Let's see what he has to say as he finishes up this thought drive them away From the gospel for the sake of branding and building my own and even wound my brothers and sisters around the way, correct?

18:42

Okay, the only brothers and sisters you're wounding along the way are the same ones that are in love with the sin that you that You are satiring or mocking

18:52

That's it. If you are wounded by something that's coming out of the Moscow mood, that's biblical

18:58

That's because your flesh is being wounded It's because your flesh hurts and goes I don't like that, but I like that sin

19:05

I like to live in that type of rebellion, whatever it is Right. I like that idol in my life.

19:10

The thing that the Moscow mood is kind of preaching against. Hey men, love your wives Hey men

19:16

Submit to Christ Hey men build things don't be lazy work hard Yeah, if you don't like that, then maybe you should read through Proverbs You know

19:29

Maybe you should see how Proverbs is littered with very harsh words about the sluggard

19:34

Being a moron or idiot as it's translated for the lack of work that they do or that, you know

19:41

I don't know Proverbs 11 22 that prostitutes are like pigs. That's harsh language yet It's biblical and it's in the

19:49

Bible. Let's keep going Yeah And so I think that's I really appreciate Kevin being willing to wade into that and I think

19:56

Underneath that is it's it's not only a mood there there's a there's a theological view of the church of the gospel of Fidelity and there are problems at each of those levels.

20:09

What are the problems here? We are talking in generalities again. What are the problems? Christ is

20:15

King God is Lord overall. Love your wives. Love your kids raise them in the admonition of the

20:21

Lord Make sure you're teaching them correcting them disciplining them build things own

20:27

Christian businesses But mock stupidity What what are so what?

20:33

What are we talking about then? Yeah, I Would agree with all that underneath that I'm about to ask you about Big Eva But because you are one of the

20:43

Patriarchs of it. I don't expect an honest answer from you, but let's just Which I didn't know you guys

20:49

I didn't know he was the patriarch of Big Eva I know he's saying it jokingly, but I didn't even know who Ligon Duncan was until two weeks ago

20:56

So that's a little bit on me I just sometimes I don't get out far enough into those circles and there's so many people to keep track of he just hadn't come

21:03

Across my radar or if he had I just didn't remember it if I'd watch something or read something by him it was something where maybe

21:10

I didn't see the name, you know at the bottom of the article or Didn't recognize him in the video

21:16

Because many times what happens is I I watch something and maybe comment on it or read something and think about it

21:22

And I might not even know who it's from and that's my bad for that. But this Big Eva section here

21:28

I'm not really understanding what he's trying to say, but we'll try to get through it It's we only have a couple minutes left in the video. Let's just play this game.

21:34

Okay setting a low bar for me I Mean what do you think when people talk about this shadowy syndicate this big machine of Big Eva?

21:47

Okay, I do have to take If you have to say something about that,

21:53

I couldn't remember what I wanted to say there Have to take exception with that. Yeah, there we go

21:58

I haven't heard anyone within the Moscow mood Or any of these fight lab fees conferences or anyone coming out of pastor

22:05

Doug Wilson church talk about the shadowy syndicate I'm hoping he's It's hyperbole because no one talks about it being a shadow.

22:14

He said we call it out very Very clearly this group this church

22:20

This group of people who have this organization All I've heard is very specific examples of it and they even even says that and talking about the gospel coalition and things like that so Nowhere, have

22:31

I had the experience of oh, yeah this conspiratorial Shadowy figure I think he's being

22:38

You know, I don't know. I think he's Maybe exaggerating here, but I hope not because I've never heard that Most of the conversation that I hear about Big Eva is complete nonsense

22:52

Okay, notice he's gonna say this twice, but he's gonna give no explanation of why it's nonsense once again generalities.

22:58

So here you go And it is funny some of the some of the biggest critics of Big Eva if there is a

23:05

Big Eva there it you know, I Could name organizations far larger and more extensive than the gospel coalition for instance

23:16

Yeah So I don't know if he's saying like is the Moscow thing part of Big Eva because they're a bigger

23:23

Organization than the gospel coalition like really wasn't understanding his point here But once again, it's all generalities.

23:29

So let's just get through it boy Do they hate the gospel that hate the gospel coalition and and they've got more money. Yeah I'm not a big fan either and we can do a whole nother episode on that thing.

23:38

They've got more reach They've got more, you know all in and and and they'll jump in on the

23:43

Big Eva conversation So a lot of it is just nonsense and I pay no attention to it whatsoever Okay, so it's all nonsense and I pay no attention to it.

23:51

So just very dismissive of that except Big Eva is that That's that 60 % 68 % of Christians in America identify as Evangelical according to Ligonier's yearly annual poll 2022 probably maybe it's higher than that now.

24:10

Okay, so over two -thirds, so that's pretty big That's not shadowy, but there is this kind of mainstream evangelical

24:19

Conglomerate of churches both denominational and non -denominational and the thing that kind of ties them together is

24:26

What I was saying earlier of this kind of soft When I say soft,

24:32

I'm I'm not saying physically I'm saying like soft on being not principled in certain biblical principles or doctrines or a type of theology that has

24:44

Became more and more liberal and progressive. Oh, especially over the last 10 to 15 years, but surely beginning 60 years ago and and so that's what a lot of times when you see videos and audio and Podcasts and things coming out of the

24:59

Moscow mood and some of these content creators when we say Big Eva We're we're grouping all those together because you could probably take six out of ten

25:10

Christians which you can because once again Ligonier did a national poll Six out of ten Christians.

25:15

They they pulled 10 ,000 Christians they called themselves Christians. I'm using air quotes

25:20

Evangelical Christians and six out of ten didn't even believe God was that Christ was divine So right there we have to start defining things when six out of ten

25:29

Evangelical Christians don't even believe Christ was divine or had divinity So that's what I'm talking about when we say

25:35

Big Eva and we have pastors running those churches We have congregants coming to those churches. Yeah, Christ wasn't wasn't divine.

25:41

He's not part of the Trinity What do we do? What are we talking about? Then? That's something that we need to talk about then

25:46

That's why we bring up Big Eva Okay, let's keep going. Sorry. I'm now have people been

25:54

Disappointed by leaders unwilling to take stands on important things. Sure. I'm sure that's happened, you know, welcome to the fallen world and I Want us to be people of principle and sometimes that means calling out people that we love and care about but you

26:11

Know that sounds a lot like the Moscow mood People being unprincipled and us calling them out as brothers also

26:20

Calling out the world for their stupidity. That sounds like the Moscow mood to me. Be careful Duncan You can you can do that in such a way that is not we have a culture in in a in a part of angelical right?

26:33

Evangelicalism right now. I do like that He kind of said that's in that way that is not kind of and then he had to like think of some way

26:40

Else to say that because he knew he was gonna get himself in trouble But I want to hear what he says here. So we call other people out.

26:47

But how do we do it? That is Desensitized to its own spirit of mocking and slander.

26:54

Okay, once again did not give any solutions there He was he started to give us a solution. He started to say well

27:00

The way you do it is oh wait, and then he switched and then he just made another generality Oh, there's a lot of churches that are desensitized to mocking

27:08

What are you talking about I mean show me Stop just talking in general is give me one example

27:17

Duncan I just want one example in this six and a half minute video Specific example of what you're talking about, but you won't give us one and that's that kind of goes back to the

27:26

Moscow mood Thank you again Goes back to the Moscow mood thing. What does what you're talking in generalities about being desensitized to mocking?

27:35

What what does that mean? How show me in real life with a video with a podcast with audio show me what you're talking about You won't or you can't

27:45

I don't know mocking and slander is not a Christian way of dealing with anything Okay, we have to define terms here because if he means

27:56

Mocking in a scornful way Or teasing or laughing Then I agree

28:02

Christ was not a mocker or a slanderer defaming someone by word

28:09

That's what slander means but I Don't think he's assuming that's what he's talking about.

28:16

We sang about the Moscow mood When I see the Moscow mood, I see a lot of satire being used. I see a lot of oh

28:23

You say that men can menstruate well here. I let me tell you something else. That's crazy

28:28

Oh, you can say that men can get pregnant you you say that it's good to lop off the breasts of Pre -boot, you know.

28:36

Well now it's geez in here in Michigan You can be as young as eight and you only have to tell your parents before before puberty and and you know,

28:44

I mean like It's nuts. We're talking about insane things. You're telling me you can't use satire

28:51

To do that. And so, you know many of those mockers and slanders. I have no reason to even think they're

28:58

Christians Okay. So now he's like this brings me back to the Moscow mood They're desensitized to mocking no example

29:06

We don't want to mock or slander in anyone that mocks or slanders I have no reason to believe they're

29:11

Christians that That surprised me. So now he's judging who is and who isn't saved based on his perception of a what masculinity is biblical masculinity as we talked about earlier in the in the video and Then two on his misrepresentation of mocking and slandering

29:33

Please show me one time Anyone attached to the upper echelons of the

29:39

Moscow mood leaders have slandered someone Show me one time where there has been a cruel

29:45

Cruelty in mocking not satire not taking something insane and crazy and giving an analogy for it

29:53

Okay, I I would say Christ all the time used very colorful language

30:01

Whitewashed tombs and den of vipers and all that big meanie Jesus. He's mocking.

30:06

No, he was using he was using Metaphors he was using Very colorful language.

30:13

He was using satire for you to get to understand what what I'm talking about Why I'm calling the

30:19

Pharisees this right? So no solutions here though, can I pause you out there?

30:25

Well Because I know somebody from that world will hear you say that and go this guy doesn't know his

30:30

Bible. What about the prophets? What about Jesus look at the way Paul talks? Oh, I guess I'm that guy

30:37

But I love this response because in his response He doesn't respond and then the one the one response he gives that's biblical.

30:46

He gets it wrong He says he says well, hey, why doesn't Jesus call here to Fox like John the

30:51

Baptist did Jesus did so much How would you respond to that? Well, I mean what one thing is

30:57

Jesus was neither a mocker and or a slander. Oh, okay. So I Like the interview.

31:03

Ooh, okay He's like the he's like the front row at Stephen Furtick's Church where they just pay him to go.

31:09

Amen. Yeah. Whoo. That's good You know, they pay people to do that or they get special seating so they can hear him on the audio

31:17

Oh, come on Wait, when it went when and and if you by the way, if if if some of these folks had been around They would have been going yay

31:28

John the Baptist Jesus. You're a weasel. Hmm. I don't think so I don't think so.

31:34

I saw the in the in the Gospels. We see the fullness of Christ We see his glory his mercy his love his justice his wrath his righteous anger his righteous jealousy

31:46

I saw the I see the fullness of Christ in Scripture I don't see a pacifist Jesus and I don't see a fundamentalist fire -breathing.

31:54

Jesus. I see a measured divine fully man fully God perfectly just Character, that's what

32:03

I see. So I don't know if I'd have been one of those people Whoa, John is preaching truth to power. There is again.

32:09

Whoa our why don't you come out and say why don't you go up? And say Herod you

32:14

Fox he did Jesus did call him a fox and what what do you think he meant by Fox when he said that you think he was like Oh, he's got he's got really fluffy hair like a fox's tail

32:26

Dude, when Jesus calls Herod of Fox He's taking on essentially the king the

32:32

Emperor the president, you know The ruler the supreme ruler who also called himself divine on his money

32:40

Which is what Peter was talking about when under by no name you should be saved but that's a whole nother podcast episode

32:46

What do you think Jesus was doing there? Do you think he was being a little using some some harsh language some satire some mockery?

32:53

Jesus calling here at a Fox. I Don't know might have to do a word study on that and see but sorry

33:00

Duncan It was it was Jesus that called him a fox not John the Baptist. So there goes your whole point now

33:05

Look at I have said many things that were incorrect on my podcast over 300 episodes thousands of hours four years

33:13

I get it. He could have just slipped up here. But he but the thing is he's a scholar. He's a theologian

33:19

He's a leader and then his whole point rests on this. He's making the point that Jesus John the

33:25

Baptist said these rough things and they would like John the Baptist more because Jesus didn't he was a little more calm and Quieter and merciful, but yet Jesus is the one that said that so his whole point is upside down This just goes to show how he's in his own bubble and how not only has he put the

33:42

Moscow mood In his in his kind of he's created in his own mind but I would dare say he's created

33:49

Jesus in his own mind to be a certain way and Doesn't truly know scripture then at that point.

33:55

I know it sounds harsh. But what else do you gather from that? You know, why don't you be like John and I think one of the things the

34:02

Bible teaches you is there different ways to be Faithful, you know if if some of these people had been around they would have been on Daniel like white on rice.

34:10

You're a sellout You you work for the wickedest king in the world.

34:16

You are facilitating his wickedness and his Ungodly rule.

34:21

Yeah, Daniel is a high -ranking official in a pagan Empire with extensive influence in how

34:28

The the Empire works. Oh, oh with extensive influence Yeah, and then what happens after Daniel says

34:36

I will not Submit to you King. I will pray to my God Well, he gets thrown in the lines then and Ligon talks about this in about 20 seconds

34:43

But I just want to make the point what happens right after that What happens in Daniel 6 26 through 28?

34:50

What's the decree of King Darius all will serve the God of Daniel that sounds like Christian nationalism to me

34:57

That sounds like a guy got in power Rightly obeyed God was righteous was principled was upstanding and lo and behold

35:06

The whole nation now is forced to serve God It sounds like exactly

35:11

What Duncan is fighting against the example he's making is Daniel was in the government Of course, he was no one in the

35:17

Moscow mood is saying you shouldn't be in the government You're working for an evil government the exact opposite you go to any of these fight lefties.

35:25

I got three guys I know right now that I'm helping run for local offices in three different states one state rep one

35:31

County Commissioner one township supervisor Three different states met him all at Moscow. They go. I want to do something for my community

35:36

I know what the civil government has been instituted by God I want to have a godly say and I want to go there and stand on principle.

35:43

I said, I'll absolutely help you I'm a County Commissioner. I'm I'm elected and I use my biblical worldview to make decisions all the time on behalf of my constituents

35:51

What is he talking about like the Moscow mood is like oh you work for an evil government once again

35:57

He has created this whole image of what the Moscow mood is but never having come there but never having been to a conference

36:03

But never having to my knowledge sitting down with any of the guys from cross politic any of the pastors from the network of churches out there with a

36:11

Pastor Sumter or pastor Wilson and he just goes from afar I'm going to lob the grenades in you know, the exact thing

36:18

He said at the very beginning. No one should do Christian should not lob grenades here he is lobbing in false grenades of what he thinks it is and We're just supposed to sit back and go.

36:28

Okay. Yeah, that's a fair criticism Yeah, that's that's fair. No two seconds ago.

36:33

You didn't even know that Jesus called here to Fox What are we talking about in the

36:38

Bible you find believers in very different? Circumstances dealing differently now, you know is is

36:46

Daniel willing to go to the lion's den? Well, I'm glad you admitted that yeah, he's willing to go to the lion's den

36:51

Thank you for getting that part of the Bible rather than stop praying to his God. Yeah, but he's still working for the government

36:58

Yes with godly principles According to the precepts and the laws of Yahweh his

37:04

God in what happens right after that what King Darius meant for evil

37:10

God meant for good and King Darius makes a decree and says all shall serve.

37:16

I'm I'm paraphrasing all shall serve the God of Daniel Like how does he not get this?

37:23

That's like a perfect example of what you want when a Christian gets into government like So frustrating.

37:30

Anyway, we're almost done. Here we go. Yeah, and there's some people they'd call you out today. Yeah for for that No, it's not meant.

37:37

I guess that was like the last five seconds. So I don't know. There's my response You guys might go.

37:43

I'm nuts. I'm crazy Well, you don't know anything I'm just telling you and I can't speak on behalf of any one particular person.

37:50

I can only speak on behalf of my experiences my interactions The books

37:56

I read that come out of places like Canon Press about the Moscow moon and I have seen so many biblical examples of husbands and wives and children at these conferences

38:08

I Have talked to so many people who have said I have read books by Doug Wilson I have read books by Toby Sumter.

38:16

I have read these books by Rigney and these guys and I've listened to cross -politic and I've been extremely blessed in being able to understand how

38:27

I'm rightly to submit to Christ to be a leader in my home to To join a church and be a member and be active there to love my children to walk with meekness, which is

38:42

Meekness isn't wimpiness or cowering or pacifist Meekness is literally strength under self -control and believe me if you go to any of these

38:54

Fight left these conferences within the Moscow mood a lot of talk there about self -control

38:59

It comes up quite often both from the stage both in between speakers at After parties as they call it or the the party after the conference in Self -control and discipline come up quite often.

39:15

What are you doing man to make sure that you are in control of Your desires and your lusts your control of your temper your control of your health you're in control of all these things

39:26

Self -control. I've heard Proverbs taught there many times about a man without self -control is like a city without walls

39:33

Like that's what meekness is its strength under control Meaning I meet men that absolutely could probably out fight out

39:42

Shoot out debate almost everyone that I've ever met in the big evil world and guys like Ligon Duncan But they don't bring it up.

39:51

They're not out there going. Oh, look how strong I am Look how well I shoot look how big of a mouth I have look how loud

39:56

I can be look how much stuff I know you want to fight you want to arm -wrestle you want there's none of that It doesn't have to be said

40:04

I'm in a room with actual Biblical men who don't have to do that You look at them in the way they carry themselves in the way they speak to their wives in the way

40:15

They are kind and gentle to one another but also firm and non bending on their principles you go

40:21

Okay, that is biblical masculinity in play That's exactly how it should be and that for me has been my experience with the

40:28

Moscow mood Nothing here that Ligon has said in this video guys I hope you enjoyed my reaction or my review video if you do like it

40:37

Share it and check us out at DMW podcast .com. You can find all kinds of cool stuff there

40:43

You can find out more about me support the show through our merch cave We've got the look at here wine. I'm dying.

40:48

I'm Romans nine. I'm shirts on There's lots of other good stuff there, too

40:54

Dead men walking podcast check us out. Thanks guys Be sure to check us out at DMW podcast calm where you can purchase the best and snarkiest merch on the internet support the show

41:01

And leave us a review or message dead men walking can be found on Facebook Instagram and YouTube at dead men walking podcast and on Twitter X at real

41:07

DMW podcast the dead men walking podcast is part of the fight left East Network for exclusive show content Be sure to download the pub

41:12

TV app and become a member if you're a business that needs to reach hundreds of thousands of potential Customers in your demographic podcast advertising might be for you send all inquiries to dead men walking podcast at gmail .com