Should Christians Watch Movies Filled with Gratuitous Violence?

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you're thinking about like a war movie in particular or something like that in order to portray realistically what war looks like you're going to have to include some sort of violence and you're going to have to include some sort of violence that you know maybe your standard female will find to be offensive all right

00:35

Tim the question for today's episode is should Christians watch movies filled with gratuitous violence there's there's a lot that's going on in a question like this and you know some of it is a male -female kind of discussion so in general men are much more prone to enjoy watching movies with violence and then to think that there's some sort of justification in doing that and so there's there's a lot of subjectivity in you know how that's even worded so I mean there's not like just universal agreement between the genders on what constitutes filled with violence and then there's not agreement between the genders on what um is uh constituting uh gratuitous violence either and and so you know part of that reminds me of a movie night

01:23

I was having with my wife where she was trying to pick a movie that I would like and so she picked a movie that was more of a war movie or whatever and so then um once once the violent scenes came on like this is supposed to be watching a movie that I would like that she was picking for me but then when the violent scenes came on she started fast forwarding it and I just kind of looked over at her and I said honey what are you doing and she's like oh yeah that is kind of weird isn't it uh that I'm fast forwarding this but uh so part of it is a male -female discussion along those lines and then there's also um you know a school shooter kind of discussion too so and this is a discussion that's been going on for many years and you know but I remember growing up um you know particularly it was normally like middle -aged women who were basically looking at young men and saying that you know all the violent video games uh would you know result in essentially young men going on shooting sprees and everything else but then you know the violent video games at that time were like Mortal Kombat or something like that so Mortal Kombat was probably one of the first like violent video games that um they were talking about and I wasn't even allowed to play

02:36

Mortal Kombat growing up we played you know Street Fighter or whatever but as a young man like listening to those kind of arguments

02:45

I like I you know having those kind of arguments which with middle -aged like moms and that kind of thing you know they're just looking at me and they're saying hey you're desensitized to this and I'm just looking at them and I'm thinking to myself you know

02:58

I've never they have no desire to kill anyone and looking like just straight straight up logic right and statistics like the amount of school shooters out there are virtually none right so they show up on the news every once in a while but there's millions and millions and millions of you know there's billions of kids probably playing violent video games um throughout the world and this this this kind of stuff is very small uh percentage of events that actually happen and so you know in terms of the statistics of the thing they're obviously like you know logically there's not like this overwhelming like you watch violent movies you play violent video games you're gonna you know become a serial killer or something like that the numbers just simply don't air those things out and I think that you know the increase in those kind of things happening that you can see over the course of my life like there's an increase but it's like almost an increase from zero to you know slightly more than zero kind of thing so almost non -existent so I mean you can have like a you know double the amount and if if the amount was four per year and now it's eight per year or something like that I don't know the exact numbers then that's still like a drop in the bucket compared to what's going on and so I think you know looking at this topic in general

04:17

I think there's um I guess I have a lot of thoughts and it's hard to nail down a easy quick answer but then you know my original impulse is just to say that most of the case that people generally make um you know

04:36

I don't know that this is thought out as what it should be as far as those things are concerned. Yeah my my perspective as someone who also grew up sort of in the you know

04:47

I don't know if there's like an official name for it but it's sort of this era where there's kind of like a war being waged on especially violent video games for me it wasn't as much

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Mortal Kombat as it was things like GTA right where where you can it's basically you know it's all it's borderline just like a sandbox game where you can just I mean you know run people over shoot people rob people you know all the all these um different kind of things that are obviously crimes um and they're they're almost like glorified you know in the game and and you do them and and you kind of laugh at it all as you're doing it which which sounds pretty you know sadistic as you say it but then

05:31

I mean I know the most recent GTA game that came out came out in like 2012 or something like that and maybe it was 13 and I mean it

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I think at the time it broke the record for um most copies of any video game sold ever and you know and so so that means millions of people are playing this game and no one you know no one's going out and with their role playing it all in real life

06:03

I think I think you know for like 99 .99 % of people who play those kinds of games they have like a disconnect in their mind between you know reality and you know and video game right um in my mind you know so so I'm also growing up in that kind of like hey everyone's just kind of saying hey you know if you play

06:26

GTA you're gonna you're gonna become just like you are in GTA right in every single way and and I kind of I I definitely as a kid rolled my eyes at that and I still don't really see how that's entirely uh true you know as you look at how many people play those games and how few ever actually you know ever thought what they were doing in the game would ever translate to real life in any kind of way but then

06:57

I think for me personally I have sort of changed my view in terms of like what

07:06

I think um about this sort of like gratuitous violence kind of thing not necessarily not necessarily because I think it'll make you you're going to go out and you know and steal everyone's car and run people over but then

07:23

I do I do I do sort of wonder as I read through the bible how much of like subjecting myself to this is really honoring

07:31

God at the end of the day because as I read descriptions you know if you as you go through the old testament as you read descriptions of the nations surrounding

07:42

Israel one of the things that you're going to see is really common is they're incredibly bloodthirsty right they're they're um an incredibly violent people normally so you see that like in Jonah for example uh the

07:56

Ninevites are are described as a bloodthirsty people and God you know that's part of the reason

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God's going to judge them um and so I think at some point you have to ask yourself like when

08:09

I'm subjecting myself to a movie that is just like overwhelmingly you know violent in every single way is this something that pleases

08:19

God um but you know and even you know even

08:25

David so David is is is told by God that he is not going to be the one to build

08:31

God's temple uh for the Israelites because he was a man of war right and so so his son would come along King Solomon would come and he would build it instead and King Solomon's reign was mostly marked by uh it seems like peace overall as he was building the temple and so it seems like God has a has a um uh he he does not he does not like people who are who are described as bloodthirsty and I know this doesn't necessarily answer the question like how much you know how much violence makes it makes it gratuitous right how much violence makes a movie filled you know filled with gratuitous violence

09:14

I know it doesn't answer that question but at least from like a how should we think about these things in general

09:19

I do I do sort of wonder you know personally

09:26

I kind of wonder like is it necessarily can you say like it's a sin to you know watch that kind of movie

09:36

I don't know that I can say it's sin right do you agree well yeah

09:42

I think it just kind of depends so um it kind of depends on what you're talking about and so part of it is you have different you know as we've worded the question watching watching movies that are filled you know filled with component one component two is gratuitous uh violence and so like the idea of gratuitous violence is like gratuitous means unnecessary unwarranted or unjustified and that kind of gives you some sort of um you know categories to think through right the kind of violence that you're even talking about and so you know if you're thinking about like a war movie in particular or something like that in order to portray realistically what war looks like you're gonna have to include some sort of violence and you're gonna have to include some sort of violence that you know maybe your standard female will find to be offensive okay and so you know part of this discussion like you talk about you've evolved over time on this

10:35

I don't know that I've necessarily um changed my basic posture over time but then what's happened over time is that I've learned to like be honest about my reactions does that make sense okay what do you mean so so I mean

10:53

I never really gravitated towards like moral combat you know growing up or things like that you know like you're talking about video games movies

11:00

I never I mean I never um so part was because my parents told me we're not allowed to play it right because it felt like demonic in certain ways and it did

11:08

I mean it seemed like an evil like a evil video game you know by like if you're comparing that with mario you know or sonic or things like that right like this is definitely uh demonic and evil and you know so I think we're trying to we're trying to kind of stay away from that kind of stuff and then when the gta grand theft auto stuff came on the scene

11:27

I think we're a little bit past you know the prime of our video game days and things like that at that point but then there was something that's like um always been repelling to me about role -playing evil so you know in any kind of like game that I played growing up I would always pick the good guy and it was really hard for me just to be the evil guy even when

11:48

I tried to take the evil path um you know it like I would actually accidentally do the good options you know on autopilot and so I mean like you know 80 of the time 90 of the time

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I just pick pick the good path you know so there's something that was always kind of like I didn't gravitate that way and then like horror movies would be an example of just gratuitous violence right like uh gratuitous um like it's filled with just gratuitous no like pointless like the point of the movie is the violence right the violence is so I I always stay

12:21

I never watched horror movies I never um like it just it was something that you know growing up our parents wouldn't let us do but then

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I had kind of internalized that kind of like I don't you know I don't have any interest in that kind of thing in general um and and so then um you know

12:40

I I think I always had kind of that posture in general but then the only people

12:46

I'm arguing with are the kind of person who is basically saying like you know a violent video game is going to turn you into a serial killer or something and I'm just looking at them like what planet do you live on you know like that doesn't actually happen like like uh

13:00

I you know and the people that do you know they're typically people on psychotropic drugs and having other things going on you know so it's just and it's very very rare so I think over time what's happened is like my original stance was just to say like like this is a big nothing burger this is a bunch of like ladies who are just they need to let men be men right like need to let men be men and men like men need to develop courage and sure in order to go to war and you know and so men gravitate towards that kind of thing but then there is also the kind of like like I think bloodthirsty you said that over and over again and I think there is like this um idea of being bloodthirsty and there there is kind of a glorying in violence right that can happen at a certain level like grand theft auto like the point is you're glorying in the evil right you're role -playing the evil you have a perverse kind of pull towards being destructive to harming people to seeing people get harmed there's kind of a uh you know like the kind of person who may like google like um lion eating human videos or something online like like there's nothing good about that right like there's nothing like that's kind of a perverse fascination like um fascination that you need to mortify right you don't need to kind of feed that uh delight and you know carnage some 11 5 says the lord tests the righteous but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence and so like I think like the idea of loving violence that would be a sin the person who loves violence and so then the idea of like gratuitous violence like movies filled with gratuitous violence not just like maybe a scene that has gratuitous violence like you know but like just movies that are filled with gratuitous like unnecessary unwarranted unjustified violence

14:53

I think there's a there's a type of just uh that's there's a perverse draw towards that direction and like that person when they watch that kind of movie they may um be feeding that like perversity in them does that make sense yeah yeah and then there may be another kind of person who may like watch a movie that has too much violence in it and just be like that all right whatever you know kind of thing so I think your reaction should be more the all right not not interested in um that kind of like a godly person

15:32

I think their reaction shouldn't be I don't love violence for the sake of violence and I'm not wanting I'm not sitting here thinking oh that's so awesome did you see his head like literally explode you know like uh like there's something hang on rewind that we were yeah

15:47

I mean there's that like you should be kind of repelled by that and um and so then if you were to you know without drawing the line absolutely like if you were to watch him like a movie with too much gratuitous violence in it you know you probably should your reaction of a godly person should just be like yeah

16:05

I didn't have to have all that in there I wish they didn't put that all in there and your soul would be more repelled by it then um that was like the the selling point for you or something like that so I think so I think as I've gotten you know older and more sensitive to those kind of things

16:25

I without saying like where the line is of when it transition like if you love violence

16:30

I would say that sin and if you're watching you know movies filled with gratuitous violence and you're getting a thrill out of it that's sin right but then

16:38

I can imagine a scenario where someone watches a movie with too much gratuitous violence in it and they're repelled by it and I would say that would be kind of the right reaction and then you may reevaluate like should

16:48

I be you know even going like pay more attention to the ratings on these kind of things or something like that.

16:55

So essentially it sounds like what you're saying if I could kind of sum it up is you know it's

17:03

I don't think that we can outright say you know it's a sin to watch a movie that has a ton of gratuitous violence in it but if you're the kind of person who watches the movie and like you're attracted to it then there might be like a deeper issue on uh under you know going on and all of this that you really need to investigate like essentially saying like this is kind of a red flag for a

17:34

Christian in your mind. Yeah I mean I think with a horror movie I would say like Christians should be watching you know like hacker slasher horror movies or things like that you know to where like if you had like a genre that's kind of devoted to gratuitous violence and it's like a definable genre you know what you're dealing with does that make sense?

17:53

Yeah, yeah. Like in that kind of thing like just uh. That's a staple of the genre. Saul or something you know

18:00

I've never watched but then I know what that genre is and you know Jason all that stuff like it's just like no thanks like I'm good you know so I mean like maybe like at that level like uh it's very clear but then there may be other like um movies that are just like have a lot more violence in them and I think people should you know do their due diligence more than just ask first and watch later but generally speaking

18:26

I think you know the you know my wife and I were watching a show recently and um you know it's just like so much violence in it and just you know at some point we're just like let's just we're done we don't need it you know there's no there's nothing good about this you know it's just too much you know so so I think in general that should be the

18:46

Christian's reaction like if you're not a person glorying like who loves violence you're not glorying in it like you you should you should be kind of repelled by it in general and um you know

18:56

I mean I can think of examples of like even you know more recent games like that where it's just like whoa what in the world you know

19:02

I've seen people play it's just like kind of a shocking level of violence that you should be more sensitized to than what we think and I do think you can get desensitized to violence to where you it doesn't even faze you anymore but then

19:16

I think it's probably overblown where that'll lead you know to in in those kind of ways but okay yeah okay fair enough this has been another episode of bible bashed we hope you have been encouraged and blessed through our discussion we thank you for all your support and ask you to continue to like and subscribe to bible bashed and share our podcast with your friends and on social media please reach out to us with your questions pushback and potential topics for us to discuss in future episodes at bible bashed podcast at gmail .com