Western Society and The Continuing Spiral into Moral and Ethical Chaos.

Welcome to The Dividing Line on a Thursday afternoon. Last program, I have a blank screen up there. I have no idea what's going up with that. But last program for quite some time for me anyways, I am headed to South Africa.

I'm wearing my South African rugby jersey again today. The folks down there were kind enough to provide to me. Last time I was there, I'll have to try to remember to bring it with me because I'm sure I'll be treated much better as I go to the airport if I'm wearing this as I land in Joburg.

Ah, you're a native. Come on in. Don't worry about it. So I've gotten enough links to the Sorbo thing. I'll talk about it. Don't have to send me any more. We'll get there in just a second. I don't know how much I can say about it because the movie's not out or anything like that, but we'll look at that in a second.

But first, as I said, next Monday evening I head for Johannesburg. It's a long trip to get there. I didn't sit down with it, but it's looking like a minimum 24 hours in the air plus, I don't know, 2, 5, 7.

We're looking right around 32, 33 hours, something like that, I think, to get there.

Your total time is 32 hours with 5 hours layover in London, and that's it. The rest is in the air. 32 hours of what? 32 hours total, one way. Right, okay, yeah. So you're 28 hours in the air. Yeah, it's about 14 each.

27 hours in the air.

Yeah, about 14 each, yeah. Yep, long trip, and then back again. So put that together, and that's a couple days. And your arms will be tired. Oh, my arms will be very tired, yes. But anyway, really looking forward to getting down there.

We're going to be doing so much. The list of things, the debates, the topics are very, very good. We're hoping to have, you know, we still don't have some of the actual, you know, one of the debates, you know, obviously the debate in the University of Pretoria, still trying to get that.

So this time, hopefully, we'll be able to do it differently, and I'll be able to just maybe, did you get any information on that? Are we going to send? Okay, all right. Hopefully send some SD cards with me.

Can you imagine we can do that with little cards? It's really weird. Anyway, but, yeah, lots of lecturing, lots of debates, and I don't think I'm down there quite as many days as I was last time. I'm not sure.

It's close. It's close. But I'm only gone one Sunday. I'm only going to miss one Sunday. I get back on a Saturday, I think. So what's left of me will be back on a Saturday. But anyhow, really, and of course, this time we're going to be both in the Johannesburg area and then down in Durban as well.

So there will be two areas. It will be there in South Africa. We've got a worldview conference. Again, like I did last time, had a great time at that. Just hopefully be a real encouragement to the church down there.

But also, if all the debates come off as scheduled, that will put us over the 140 moderated public debates mark. And these are actual debates you can go watch, listen to. We can identify the people that I debated, the locations.

I have debated in Nebraska, but we actually have evidence of that. And the person I debated named Jerry Matitix will confirm that. In fact, I remember the sweater that I wore the second night I debated Jerry Matitix in Omaha because it was cold in Omaha.

But I did not debate Shabir Ali in Omaha. Just saying. Just saying. That was before my Islamic activity time. So anyway, so keep in mind what's coming up. We've got South Africa next week. And then shortly, just a couple weeks after I get back, we need to, I know, I know, it's all up to me to do all this stuff.

But we need to have some information up as soon as we can on the trip that I'm going to be taking at the beginning of November. And if this calendar program is actually synced, which it doesn't look like it is, unfortunately.

Yeah, that one not work. Let's try this. It doesn't know what's going on. Oh, this one works. Good, yes. Probably, yeah. I'll be at Trinity Fellowship Church on November 1st. That's in New Jersey. And I've got a debate on Islam with Shadid Lewis.

And going to be doing something for Hope Reform Baptist Church on Long Island. Cornerstone Church. Debate with Shadid is on the 8th, by the way, of November. And then on the 9th, I'll be at New Hyde Park Baptist Church in the morning.

And in the evening, I think I'm supposed to be with Brother Moore then, Ed Moore, North Shore, I think. I think. So, and there might be some other stuff in there. I don't know. But going to be a busy trip, New Jersey and New York.

New Jersey, Long Island, beginning of November. And then a couple weeks after that, off to Kiev and Berlin. And get home from that. And a couple weeks after that, Norway and then the G3 Conference in Atlanta.

I had a couple months off from visiting with the TSA folks. And they've been missing me. And so we're going to renew our close personal relationships over the next number of months. And my frequent flyer account is going to go brrrr once again.

And that's just sort of how that will work. So that's what's coming up. And obviously we need your prayers for, you know, obviously funding. And, you know, there's got to be people involved. You know, boots on the ground seems to be the big phrase these days.

But Rudolf Buschhoff down in South Africa. And then Nick and Greg White and all the guys at EBTC in Berlin. Because I'm teaching both in Ukraine and flying to Berlin. And we're going to do some neat stuff there at EBTC again.

And then next year I'm going to be teaching at EBTC again in Zurich. Book of Hebrews. Really looking forward to that. So there's all that stuff. But I'll be honest with you. You know, other than the preparation.

And a lot of my preparation has just been trying to do more and more reading background stuff. You know, I've been putting in huge miles. Because I'm working through some really thick, tough stuff on Islam right now.

As far as the reading goes. But the thing that crosses my mind most often is what happened the first time I flew internationally. When I first went to London. And, you know, they scheduled me to do this whole thing on cults and isms and all the rest of this stuff.

And, wow. I got sick. Man, did I get sick. I was really, really, really sick. I mean, I did the presentation. But I was sitting down trying to answer questions in the afternoon. And literally I had to call a stop to it.

Because I knew within two minutes either I was going to pass out or throw up one of the two. And that was ugly. That was ugly. And I hate putting in all this effort to do this stuff. And then you get there and you're sick.

You know, you spend that many hours in a hermetically sealed tube with people who are coughing and hacking and everything else. It's tough not to be exposed. So I do everything I can to, you know, all sorts of stuff to clean the hands.

And I'm doing everything I can to stay healthy. But it's in the Lord's hands. So if you'd pray for health, ability to stay healthy and sleep and stuff like that. And that would really be great. I would appreciate that.

So lots of travel, lots of ministry coming up. Your prayers, your support very much a part of that. Thank you for all of you who all of you have given to help make this a possibility. And certainly we'll be trying to, as best we can, keep you informed as to what's going on down there in South Africa.

And with all the traveling we're going to be doing and things like that. So next, I hear you. Yesterday, Fred hit me up and said, I need a commentary. Fred Butler hit me up and said, I need a response to this.

I've never seen it before. Let the lion roar. New movie coming out next year. I've seen the trailer. I guess we should have queued up the trailer, huh? That would have been, might have been interesting.

But anyway, let the lion roar. I don't know what it's about. Nobody knows what it's about. But some of the stuff that I've read, reformers changing the Bible, putting anti-Jewish stuff in the Bible, mistranslating the Bible, blah, blah, blah.

Going after Luther and Calvin. Kevin Sorbo plays Calvin. Oh, boy. That looks great. Check out the suggested interview questions. Part of me wants to go ahead and contact the media folks and say, oh, we'll interview the author.

Because the book's not available yet. Let the lion roar. Suggested interview questions. Here they are. Tell us about your film, Let the Lion Roar. What is this deception that you describe? Are you saying we're deceived about the gospel?

How did you discover this conspiracy? What does this mean for the church today? So what would the church look like if this deception was overturned? Doesn't this raise difficult questions about Israel?

Are you saying that Christians are actually Jewish? Those are the eight interview questions that are suggested in the press pack for Let the Lion Roar. Okay. I don't know. You can't refute something that you have not seen.

But let me take some wild guesses. Just some wild guesses. From some of the stuff I've read, evidently this is an attack upon, quote, replacement theology, end quote. Which is a lousy term. That is generally used by people who are dispensational in their perspective.

In regards to the nation of Israel. So if you believe that the church is the fulfillment of the promises to Israel. Those troublesome little phrases in Paul like the true circumcision, the Israel of God, etc.

Which are about the church and the New Testament. If you actually take that seriously, then you're guilty of believing in replacement theology. And you're now guilty for all the anti-Semitic acts that have ever happened in the history of the world.

And so evidently that's in here somewhere. And so I guess they go after Ambrose and Augustine. And everybody who doesn't have what they think is the appropriate eschatology or something like that. And so I guess that's what's behind the alleged changes in the Bible or something.

I don't know. It obviously really concerns me when people start making accusations about tampering with the text of Scripture and stuff like that. As if Christian scholars just sit around picking their noses all day long.

And have no earthly idea about the history of the transmission of the text. Even some of the stuff is saying, well they're translating from Latin into English. And therefore they did this. So we'll see.

Maybe some more stuff is going to come out before then that will give us something. Who knows? Maybe if the interest remains high we'll go ahead and contact the folks. And let's find out straight from the author.

I think it might actually be interesting to do. But there you go. Here comes another conspiracy film. What the Lion Roar is going to be coming out. And aren't we all excited about that. You know, every once in a while I see an article over at MRM.

I think Sharon wrote this again. Good stuff. Member inactivity in the Mormon Church. I bet you didn't see this, did you? On Tuesday, 23rd September 2014, the blog Nearing Kolob took a look at recent Mormon missionary reports regarding localized church inactivity.

What follows is a summary of Nearing Kolob's research findings that they gleaned unscientifically from reading Mormon missionary blog posts. Which is interesting. A Mormon missionary blog post would be an interesting first-hand source of information.

South America Northwest Area. Out of 1 ,800 ,000 members, 1 ,000 ,000 do not go to church. Germany. After two stake presidents left the church, 90 of the ward in Dortmund is inactive. Santa Domingo West Mission.

Cities of Ocoa and Para. Members are refusing callings. Six former branch presidents have gone inactive. The small 350-member branch of Para is basically all inactive. Scottsdale, Arizona. 75 of the reporting missionaries' ward is inactive.

West Virginia. Most of the wards and branches are comprised of inactive members. Columbia, California. Most of the ward leaders are inactive. Belgium, Netherlands. 75 of the reporting missionaries' ward is inactive.

Mendoza, Argentina. 60 .8 of the ward is inactive. Montreal, Canada. Most of the reporting missionaries' ward is inactive or borderline inactive. Detroit, Michigan. The reporting missionaries' ward had only 30 people at a Sunday service because the rest of the ward is inactive.

Malaga, Spain. 70 of the reporting missionaries' ward is inactive. Quezon City, Philippines. The reporting missionaries' ward suggests that 95 of her ward is inactive. Cebu, Philippines. The majority of the ward is inactive.

Seagoville, Texas. An enormous portion of the reporting missionaries' ward is inactive. The article says, while this information is likely troubling to LDS leaders and perhaps encouraging the critics of Mormonism, it does not prove or disprove anything about the truthfulness of the religion.

What it does tell us is that a significant number of Mormons are dissatisfied with their faith. Friends, people who leave Mormonism for a life without Christ know better off in the eternal scheme of things than people who remain LDS and follow a different Jesus.

These inactive reports are a poignant reminder that, as Christians, we do not seek merely to lead people away from Mormonism. We are called to a much greater purpose. Our hope and deepest longing is to walk with those who are spiritually lost, helping them along that rough but glorious pathway to a new life in Christ.

In any case, the great scope of Mormon activity does not reduce the size of our mission field one bit. Let us keep our shoulders to plow until the field is ripe and ready to harvest. In fact, what I would add to the commentary there is, in my experience, the religiously abused are far harder to reach than the religiously active.

Let me talk to a believing, active Jehovah's Witness any day over against one of those poor Jehovah's Witnesses, the millions of them that exist out there, that are the burned over, the burned out. They no longer have ears to hear it.

They just don't care. There are big troubles in Salt Lake City. The new direction that started under Hinckley, the de-emphasis of the unique elements of LDS theology that really began under Hinckley, it's all due to BYU.

It's all BYU influence. There's a confluence of things that have come together, but BYU is behind a lot of this stuff. I've said many times there's going to be a split. It may be the kind of split that just happens when you leave a piece of fruit sitting on a plate long enough that it rots.

It'll split eventually because it's simply falling apart. There are splits that are due to energy existing amongst people, and these people believe this, and these people believe that, but it just seems like Mormonism has lost its way, lost its direction, has really nowhere to go because it's never had a foundation.

Man, fascinating stuff. Fascinating stuff. I appreciate the perspective that was taken there as well. It was well said. One last thing before we get to Brian Zond. Ah, you've got to do it. I hate when I get a tweet and I have no idea.

It was seven minutes ago. Oh, I bet that's got to contact the guy. Contact the author of the book, movie guy, and have him on. Yeah, I'd like to do it. I'd like to find out what in the world the guy has to say because I looked him up and there was just...

He's not really written anything of any substance, so who knows? Anyway, you all heard on the briefing this morning. By the way, Dr. Moeller, I haven't gotten any of the royalty checks that I'm owed for the wholesale stealing of my copyrighted phrases.

Theology matters. It's been used a lot, but now you're even putting in your blogs the dividing line? I mean, somebody on the channel was even saying, have we ever seen Al Moeller and James White in the same room at the same time?

The answer to that is no, we actually have not. So, you know, I'm getting a little concerned here. But on the briefing, I believe this morning, I was rowing during this particular section of the briefing.

And there is a reference, of course, to the publication yesterday of the report from a council in Germany. Council members said, let's see, German Ethics Council calls for incest between siblings to be legalized by government.

Council members said social taboo would still prevent relationships. Right, right. Patrick Stubing, who was adopted as an infant and met his sister in his 20s, has launched several appeals since being imprisoned for incest in 2008.

His lengthy legal battle has prompted widespread public debate. Sexual relations between siblings and between parents and their children are forbidden under Section 173 of the German Criminal Code, and offenders can face years in prison.

But on Wednesday, the German Ethics Council recommended the section be repealed, arguing that the risk of disability in children is not enough to warrant the law, and decriminalizing incest would not remove the huge social taboo around it.

Now, catch that. What's the reason? Now, this is, again, I'm repeating what Dr. Moeller said this morning, but sometimes some people don't listen to Dr. Moeller. The secularists, as we've listened to people years ago, well, a couple years ago, remember when we played, oh, what was that guy's name that, oh, the homosexual that went after the kids in the high school, and Dan Savage.

We played Dan Savage having a dialogue at some Christian's table in his house, remember? This was, I don't know, two, three years ago. I lose track after a while. And remember that he was challenged. On what basis would you say that two brothers or incestuous relationships would be inappropriate?

They always struggle, because now you're asking them to make a positive, ethical, moral statement, and they don't like to do that, other than saying homosexuality is good, natural, proper, all those other kinds of things.

But normally what they end up saying is, well, I don't do the, I don't think the incest thing is good, because you can have deformed children. In fact, my understanding is that this quote-unquote couple, two of their children are, in fact, have problems, which is like, duh, you'd think, but that's the argument that's used, which is, well, we can't allow that, because, well, that wouldn't answer the question, which is an absolutely perfectly valid question to ask of anyone who believes in quote-unquote marriage equality.

In fact, last night someone tagged me in a Facebook post. Someone had posted this equal sign, marriage equality. I couldn't comment on it. Does that mean they've limited it to a certain number of only people that follow them or friends, or is that what that's all about?

Best I can tell, if somebody that's on your friends list likes or comments on one of their friends, it'll show up in your feed, but you can't comment unless you've either gone and followed them.

Or you're a friend with them. I couldn't comment on it. It's probably best I couldn't, because I just wanted to say this woman who had posted it, you don't believe in marriage equality. You don't believe what you posted.

We've talked about this before, but it's a perfectly valid question to ask, and I'm going to ask them. All right, so if the only reason here is the risk of disability, then two brothers should be able to marry, right?

Because there's no risk of disability there, because despite what people say, two brothers cannot produce live offspring. Two sisters, two brothers. Why not a grandson with a grandmother who's no longer able to bear children?

See, they cannot argue against the morality of those relationships, because if all you've got is, well, don't like it because you could have deformed children, that's the extent of your moral problem with this, and it is.

It is. And then to say that would not remove the huge social taboo around it. Really? You know what would? A single best-selling movie. That would do it. That would do it. How about just a beloved Hollywood character?

In these days, with our society, that's all you need. That's all you need, right? And we already know there's a pretty strong bestiality movement in Germany as well. So there you go. Incest, bestiality, polygamy.

It's not, you know, we've had people mocking the slippery slope argument for like, this isn't a slippery slope. It is a cliff. And when we hit the bottom, everything goes splat. And God raises up a society that will listen to him and puts it in the place of the society that jumped off the cliff and went splat.

Sort of how all that works. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Well, last time we were together, what? What?

This is weird. Since we're having rewinds, this just in. From Chris Harts, and let's see if you can read that.

If you can't, I will. No, no, no, I think I can. One of the reasons that I have the LG G3, so I can actually see things. But I had another pair in here someplace too. Not sure where it went. Oh, look at that.

Even through the dust. Mm-hmm. Saturday, November 1st, Trinity Fellowship Church, Toms River, New Jersey. Sunday AM, November 2nd, Christian Fellowship Church, North Brunswick, New Jersey. Sunday PM, November 2nd, Grace Reformed Baptist Church, Merrick, Long Island.

November 3rd, Cornerstone Christian Church, Hicksville, New York.

What are you doing? When you're done, I'll call back.

He'll send me more. Tuesday and Wednesday, November 4th and 5th, Hope Reformed Baptist Church, Medford, New York. That's sort of farther out on the island. Thursday, November 6th, Word of Truth Church, Farmingville, New York.

Saturday, November 8th, Shadid Lewis debate. That'll be at New Hyde Park Baptist Church. Sunday AM, November 9th, New Hyde Park Baptist Church. Sunday PM, November 9th, North Shore Baptist, Bayside, New York.

That's Ed Moore's church. That means I'm going to be really busy the whole time that I'm there, in case you may have noticed.

Knowing Chris, he's just getting started. No, no, no, no.

No, there ain't much more in there, time-wise. And I approved all of those things. So, there you go. You know, the last time I was at Ed Moore's church... You know, I don't know if it was the last time I was at Ed Moore's church.

I've been going back there for so long now. But there was one time, one of the more recent times that I ended up at North Shore. I was so sick by the time I got there. I think it's the only time I've really functionally not been able to preach because I was coughing so much.

Normally, you take something, you take some cough suppressant, something. That was rough. But that's also where I had one of the most interesting debates. Oh, what was that guy's name? Well, actually, I've had two debates there.

One with the Church of Christ guy.

Okay, so that was Paul Barber. Yes. And then there was, are you thinking Brother Barker? Oh, the Brother Barker debate.

Those are both at North Shore. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And Ed Moore, I could spend the rest of the program talking about.

We've had some interesting history on Long Island. Remember the one trip where I did not sleep on the plane out on the red eye with Warren?

Do you have any idea how short those flights are now? I woke up with vertigo.

Yes, I do remember that. And I had to stand there and videotape the whole thing with the room spinning like the top.

Yeah, but have you ever seen a Baptist pastor dance on a table? I have not. Now that I think about it. Actually, he wasn't on the table. The Italians in the room were on the table while he was doing Elvis.

All righty then.

There's a visualization. People are complaining we've been derailed once again.

Oh, we have been derailed, but it's okay. It's all right to be derailed. It's okay. What was I talking about before you came in? Okay, there's the schedule coming up in early November. You're transitioning design.

Yeah, early October, South Africa. Early November, New York, New Jersey. Early December, Kiev, Berlin. Mid-January, Norway, Atlanta. It's one of the reasons I took up running. It seriously is. It seriously is.

Because if all I did was cycling, I would be really seriously depressed. So add to the health thing, not beating myself up so much running while I'm on all these trips. And, of course, the ones in December, running in the snow might prove to be interesting.

Hopefully I can find a treadmill someplace or something. I don't know. Wasn't that Rocky III?

Oh, yeah. Go get a tire and roll it.

Yeah, well, no. I don't think Stallone was actually doing most of that stuff. Uh-oh, movie reference. Sorry. Oh, yeah. There's another one. I'm sure it'll end up on a certain person's. Oh, Red Goatee.

Zond, Zond, Zond. That's okay. All right, whatever. Last time we were together, or the time before. No, last time I read through the tweet exchange that I had with Brian Zond. And one of the ironies, and I'm going to get picked on for this.

But, oh, by the way, I wrote to Steven Anderson. And I guess he's put up a blog post where he's admitted that I was not projecting a picture of two men kissing on the back wall during a sermon. That it wasn't a sermon.

That basically everything he said was just completely wrong. He says, well, somebody told me it was a sermon. Ah, come on. By the way, I would not for a second apologize if I had found the picture, if I had showed it to people.

It was in the media. It was about what was going on at one of our military academies. I wouldn't have left it up there the whole time, but here these men are. They are quote-unquote getting married. They're profaning marriage at the chapel of the U .S. Air Force Academy.

I think that's directly relevant to being able to say this nation has spit in the face of God. And all his yelling and screaming and everything else, I could care less. Just because you scream it while beating on your beaten up pulpit does not make it relevant or true.

So I wrote to him and I said, why don't you come into the studios? We'll talk about it. So we've been going back and forth a little bit. I've got a draft of an email written to him. I haven't sent it yet because I'll be perfectly honest with you.

I've been sitting here going, there's so much in that clip that we played last time that needs to be addressed. Especially the abusive approach toward homosexuality. When you say abusive, he just simply said that homosexuals should be stoned.

I pointed him to 1 Corinthians chapter 6 where the inspired scriptures in any translation, well maybe not some of the perverted translations that homosexuals have been putting out, but says and such were some of you, do you really think the Apostle Paul, in talking, and there's a whole list of sins there, many of which were worthy of stoning under the Old Testament law, not just homosexuality, do you think that the only thing Paul said to those Corinthians who had now been saved was you're worthy to be stoned, period, end of discussion.

No, he proclaimed the gospel to them. Proclaimed the gospel. I mean, liars will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, and Stephen Anderson was lying up one side down the other about me. So he's deserving to be stoned too.

So is that all we're going to say? No, it's abusive to the people of that church to speak as he speaks. But here's the one thing. I said, well, when I get back from South Africa, why don't we come in?

And then I started thinking about it. We have no common basis. He doesn't believe I'm a Christian. I don't believe he is. I believe that's a little cult he's got going over there. My biggest concern would be, A, could it be educational and worthwhile?

I'm not sure that it could be. B, it's the people in that church. But I don't think I can communicate with them. I think they are so tightly controlled that I don't know that they would listen to that program.

But I cannot remonstrate with the man as with a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's the problem. And so I don't know. I'm still thinking about it. I'm still thinking about it. I just don't know if it would be even worthwhile.

But I'm thinking about it. Okay, so back to Brian Zahn. Sorry about that. But we did play that last time. And I wanted to let you know that. And I even said, hey, you know what? If you want to call me a pervert and a moron and all the rest of this stuff, how about I come to your church?

I'd do it. I'd do it. I'd walk into that place. I have nothing to fear from those folks. And I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that when it comes to handling the word of God, all right, I can. Anderson can't.

And so if there are any of God's actual sheep in that congregation, they'd hear that. That's why I don't think I'm going to get an invitation to do that. But I'd be willing to do that. All right. We had this interesting conversation with Brian Zahn.

And we've discovered that Brian Zahn does not believe in the persecuted scripture. I'm sorry. This is what got me off track. Here is what I didn't mention last time. At some point, oh, it was when I was trying to get the tweets.

Remember, we had a whole lot of problem trying to put the tweets together and put it together. And I posted it on the blog article for The Last Dividing Line. I saw some of his more recent tweets. He is writing introductory material to books of the Bible for the New Living Translation.

And I think some of them are in the Old Testament. Really? The guy that doesn't read any of the biblical language as far as I know. Maybe he reads Hebrew, but if he doesn't read Greek, probably doesn't read Hebrew.

And doesn't know what the Tanakh is? How much meaningful reading in Old Testament backgrounds and context can you do without having run across Tanakh? I mean, it's all through Christian works on the Old Testament.

And certainly, if you've ever done any reading in Jewish scholarship, it's there. So, why is he writing introductory materials for publication in some study Bible of the New Living Translation? That would explain something.

But, really? I'm left going, wow. That's amazing. Okay, so, we were listening to Brian Zahn's opening statement in his debate with Michael Brown. We certainly can understand what one of the major issues is now.

And that is, Michael Brown believes that you can actually go to the text of Scripture and come up with a doctrine of substitutionary atonement. And, obviously, Brian Zahn doesn't think you can do that.

His fundamental bibliology is just so far removed. It explains all of this. But, it's still important to listen to. So, let's dive back into it here in the last 20 minutes of the program.

We violently send our sins into Jesus. Indeed, he bore our sins. We violently send our sins into Jesus Christ. He absorbs them.

Now, Michael's going to ask, what does that mean? We violently send our sins into Jesus. Where do you find that? Anywhere in Scripture. Where do you find that in Richard Balcombe or any of your favorite interpreters?

When we challenge your position, you just go, I'm just agreeing with these guys over here. It doesn't take responsibility. Where do they say that? I'd like to see where Richard Balcombe says, we violently send our sins into Jesus.

Now, I know where the Bible says that the Father laid our sins. But, violently send our sins into Jesus.

Okay. In his dying breath, he reveals the heart of the Father. Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And, when Jesus prays, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Upon the cross, Jesus is not asking the Father to act contrary to his nature.

Instead, Christ is revealing to us the very heart of God in that moment.

No one would suggest that even if you accept that phraseology, that this is asking God to do something other than what would be natural for him to do. It is a straw man to say that what penal substitutionary atonement means is that you've got an angry Father.

I mean, I was talking about how this is a misapprehension back at NPBC. Okay. I mean, it's been 30 years, literally. It's been 30 years. Straw man, straw manicus maximus, but that's what you've got.

Jesus takes our sin that was violently sent into him down into death, shakes it off. On the third day, he is raised and comes back to us with the first word of the new world, peace be with you. We must remember that before the crucifixion of Jesus is anything else.

This new world, this idea, recreation is an element of truth. I mean, what is one of the titles of Jesus? Prince of Peace. What do we have having been justified by faith in Christ according to Romans 5 .1?

Peace with God. It's an element of the truth. It's an important element of the truth. But the problem is when you divorce an element of the truth from the basis that makes it real, you make it untrue.

Why do we have peace? Because God's holy nature has been satisfied because God himself in Father, Son, and Spirit has provided substitutionary atonement so that our peace is a real peace, not just a faux peace.

So when you say, well, I like this, but I don't like that, you can take a part of the truth and end up making it an untruth by detaching it from the foundation that inspired scripture provides. And it's frustrating to see.

It is a catastrophe. It is the unjust, violent lynching of an innocent man. It is the murder of God. This is precisely how the apostles spoke of the crucifixion in the book of Acts. Consider.

Now, by the way, the book of Acts, the terminology murder of God, I guess the closest you might get to that is Acts 20, 28, maybe. But let me say once again, the destructive, subjective hermeneutics illustrated by Zond destroys the Trinity.

Or, let's put it this way, if it doesn't destroy the Trinity, it reduces the Trinity to what you feel you'd like God to be like, rather than it being a divine revelation. Brian Zond is not going to be going into any mosques in the near future.