Discussion: Ligonier Theology Survey

Ligonier Theology Survey: Why the Questions Matter

Ladies and gentlemen we are gonna we are gonna step away from the discussion of the Holy Spirit and I I feel bad because I said earlier we should not ever relegate the Holy Spirit and now here we are gonna cut our time in class to talk about something else.

But I told you guys at the beginning of this semester that on week 5 and this is week 5 we were going to discuss huh. I thought you said I was. It is week 5. Right. This is okay. We are going to discuss the Ligonier ministries theology survey.

Now I put this out an email. I put this out on Facebook and I know some of you had trouble accessing it and some of you had trouble doing the survey. But by show of hands. How many of you did the survey.

Okay miss Jackie. Have you even seen it. Okay all. Right. But but you so you did get the email today because I emailed it out like a month ago and nobody got that email and I think it actually. But you got the one today.

Okay. I understand I understand. Here's the thing if you have a phone or a tablet and you're on the internet you can pull it up right now. I just couldn't photocopy this for everybody. But if you have a if you have a phone or whatever and you want to look at it with me you can.

But we're going to talk about this theological survey put out by Ligonier and we're going to talk about some of the answers that was given by this class. Because yes. No no no. If you're looking for it go to my Facebook page.

You're on my Facebook. Right. Go to my Facebook page go to Sovereign Grace Academy and it's the first post on Sovereign Grace Academy. That's it. That's the easiest way I reposted it today. State of Theology.

Yeah. Well here's the thing this is 35 questions. 35 theology questions that was sent out all over the United States. Believers were categorized unbelievers. And you know well not all people were categorized.

And then and then and then believers are categorized. So if you look up the state of theology .com you can look at the survey national but I created same survey but limited to just us and 17 people took this survey.

So some of y 'all and some within our church took the survey. So I'm going to talk about some of the answers simply to have us conversate about why people would answer the way they did. And the first question for instance and if they're all true or false and you and and and they all have a one to five answer five being agree and one being disagree.

And then there's two three four is like somewhat agree don't know and then somewhat disagree. Right. So so you either fully agree fully disagree or then you don't know or you somewhat agree all right.

So the first question would be God is a perfect being and cannot make a mistake. 17 people took the survey. 17 people agreed. God is a perfect being and cannot make a mistake. We would all agree with that.

Number two there is only excuse me there is one true God and three persons God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit. 17 people agreed. So I was happy about that. Number three. God accepts the worship of all religions including Christianity Judaism and Islam.

17 people took the test or took the quiz survey and 17 people disagreed. So they all disagreed. No. I was happy with that. By the way I was happy with all the ones on the first sheet. But the second sheet get some markers.

But I but I'm not sure that people understood the questions. That's what we're going to talk about tonight. What about this question is difficult because so far so good right. Number four God created male and female.

17 answers. 17 agrees. That's good. Number five biblical accounts of the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus are completely accurate. This event actually occurred. 17 answers. All agreed. So again first page.

We were cooking with gas. Then we get to page 2. Number 6 Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God. 12 disagreed. One was not sure and for agreed with that statement. Why do you think someone would agree with that statement.

Yes. Possibly I'm not sure it went that deep. I think they saw first and greatest and just figured. Yes the. But what's the big issue with it created. Christ is not created. He has always existed in the form of the second person of the Trinity.

I think that's I think first and greatest probably confused them but but this is one of those times where theology really matters. When people see that Jesus created I think they have to you know we have to distinguish there.

And this is why I as I always say even in even in situations where you guys are coming to theology classes and we have people in our church who've been you know here for a long time even where good theology is taught sometimes we get we get confused and we want to make sure we're doing our best to be as be as accurate as we can.

Number seven. Jesus was a great teacher but he was not God. Yeah. But one person agreed that one. It doesn't tell me. By the way for those of you who are watching this online or anyone who might be interested this this does not tell me who.

Because I'd already been at their house. I I wish that was a lie. No I mean this really that one would have gotten my attention again. I don't know who it was. This is completely anonymous survey. I have no idea who did but whoever's watching this if you just happen to be that person or maybe it was one of you and you just don't want to say I would.

I would take great issue with saying Jesus was not God because that's that's a biblical truism. But it's obviously something at least one person either misunderstood or disagreed with. All right. The Holy Spirit is a force but is not a personal being.

Disagree. 14 people disagreed. One person did not know and two people agreed. The Holy Spirit is a force not a person. And what should they have done should have taken this class tonight because we spent the whole first half of tonight's class on that very thing.

Regeneration, Sin, and Justification

All right. Number nine. The Holy Spirit gives a spiritual new birth or a new life before a person has faith in Jesus. Now that was again the lesson of the evening. So what would we say. Agree. The Holy Spirit does give spiritual new birth or life before a person has faith in Jesus.

But as I said earlier yes. Yes. But it's still prioritized in the one causes the other. No worries. No worries. But ten people agreed. Two people did not know and five disagreed. So this is another one where I think there there it could be a confusion of what's being said but it could also be just a disagreement.

They think that holy the Holy Spirit regenerates after faith and there are some people who believe that that's the Armenian position is that faith precedes regeneration. The Calvinistic position is regeneration precedes faith.

So there could be a theological difference there. All right. Number 10. The Holy Spirit can tell me to do something which is forbidden in the Bible. Everybody disagreed. Thank God 17. 17 knows everyone sends a little but most people are good by nature.

17 knows if I if I have preached anything in the last 15 years of being the pastor if I have taught anything it's that you're all bad and I'm bad and everybody's bad. And so I'm thankful that that was 17.

Does. Number 12. Even the smallest sin deserves eternal damnation. That is true. But only 15 people agreed. Two people disagreed. I I think that's a difficult question for a lot of people to really wrap their mind around.

Even a small sin deserves the wrath of God. Yes. Well that's James's argument. Right. Yeah. If you if you say I have not committed murder but you have stolen then you're still broken the law. Right. You break the law.

In one part it's like a it's like a bowl that holds water. If you put a hole in it in one spot all the water is going to pour out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Number 13 God counts a person as righteous not because of one's works but only because of one's faith in Jesus Christ.

16 people agreed. Only one said they somewhat agreed I but at least they weren't fully disagreeing. I think maybe they just wanted to make sure they were close. Yeah. Number 14 the Bible like all sacred writings contains helpful account of ancient myths but is not literally true.

16 people disagreed. And one agreed that the Bible contains myths and is not literally true. What's from within this class. And I don't know who all from the church took it but was available to our church as well.

So remember this class used to be a lot bigger. So was that you. Well if you just took it then I'm not looking at your answer. Well cuz cuz I printed this about three hours ago. So if you just took it I don't see your results.

Yeah. I was told I had the guy at the church who told me I don't believe the whole Bible's true. And I said well you're in the wrong church. Yeah he has later in that same conversation you want to argue with me about Calvinism.

I said we can't have that conversation. He said why. I said cuz you told me earlier you don't believe the whole Bible's true. So all I have to do is point to Bible verses that prove Calvinism is true.

And all you have to say is I don't believe those Bible verses and the conversations over why am I going to waste time trying to convince you of something you already don't believe. Conversations over all.

Right. Moving on to number 15. The Bible is a hundred percent accurate and what it teaches here's the rub. Everybody agreed. So going back to the person who just said it was not literal maybe they were confused because everybody agreed with the Bible is completely accurate.

I I again want to say though being very clear especially if anybody's watching this if you were part of this survey and you disagreed with these answers or you want to talk about this is this is why we're having this class so we can have these conversations.

And if you're if you're in a situation where you feel like and I'm saying this to any of you or anybody listening who might be listening to the recording later. If you're in a situation where you're like hey I disagree with that.

Come talk to me. If you feel like I'm teaching something wrong I want to know why or if you feel like I you know you this is important stuff. This is not you know what color the carpet is or what this is important theological truth that we we should be seeking to to get to get right.

Scripture, Science, and the Authority of the Bible

Number 16. Modern science disproves the Bible. Yeah. 16 people disagreed. Only one said they weren't sure. Okay. Number 17 God will always reward true faith with material blessings in this life. 16 disagreed.

One said they weren't sure. Number 18 hell is a real place where certain people will be punished forever. 17 people agreed. Which is amazing because hell is usually the thing that very few people agree on.

So the fact that we have agreement on hell is well pretty amazing. All right. Worshiping alone or with one's family is a valid replacement for regularly attending church. And 17 people disagreed. I was thankful for that one.

Now this one is a little heavy. This not heavy but maybe more difficult. Christians should be silent on the issue of politics. 14 people disagreed. Three people said they didn't know. Nobody agreed. They just said they didn't know.

And I I can respect that they might not really think that Christians should be protesting or something. Maybe that maybe they read it that way. You know I don't know. Number 22. This one's it this. Yes sir.

Yep. No. No no I I get what you're saying nails. And we have to. We have to be faithful to the Bible. The first thing the Bible does command of us in Romans 13 and in first Peter is that we be obedient citizens.

Right obey the civil government. But we also see in Scripture that anytime the government calls on us to disobey God we have to obey men. Or obey God rather than men. So there are times where allegiance to God outweighs allegiance to state.

But as the Scripture clearly says the goal of the Christian is to live to live a peaceable and quiet life. Meaning that we are we are obedient as far as it goes and we're not. We're not you know rebels and tyrants and or not our rebels and and and all that.

You know we're doing our best to be good citizens. And I think we should so. But should we be silent like for instance on the topic of abortion. No babies are being murdered. We need to speak out. Should we be silent on the issue of homosexuality.

No this is an ascent against God and we have to speak out. So I think that's really the heart of the question. All right. Number 22 wear my glasses. Because I printed it really small because it would have been a hundred pages if I didn't.

God chose the people he would say before he created the world. Of course you would your Calvinist John. Well here is what the answers came about. God chose the people he would say before the created world.

15 people agreed. So we got a room of majority Calvinist. But see here's the thing though even if you're not a Calvinist I think you could still affirm this and I'll explain why in a minute one person somewhat agreed and one person said they disagreed.

So still a pretty wide margin. Here's the thing even if you don't believe in in deterministic predestination you would still say God chose the people he would save because he chose to save believers. So I mean you could still affirm it even as a Arminian I mean you'd have to say God chose to save and therefore chose whom he would say.

So I I really don't think the questions that difficult. Even from an Arminian perspective the question becomes the particular nature of the determination of how he he chose them. But the fact that he knew he was going to say before the foundation of the world is pretty obvious.

Whichever whichever way you go. Okay uh 23 churches must provide entertaining worship services if they want to be effective. At least all 17 disagreed. But that's a great question isn't it. I would love to see and I didn't look.

But I would love to go on the website and actually see what the world's answer to that was like see what. Like. Nine. Yeah because I have heard so many times pastor the reason why you don't have people come into your church is because you need a better music program or you need a you need a better lighting system or you need a better monitor system or you need a better sound system.

Oh it's because they're just not getting entertained or they're not whatever. So so so even though all the people who took this survey we're on the side of the angels. Not everybody's okay. Number 24.

God is unconcerned with my day-to-day decisions. 16 people disagreed but one agreed. I imagine they probably took that day-to-day decisions as being the mundane parts of life and they guess they just don't think God's concerned about that.

I'm just trying to be you know gracious but God is concerned with every aspect of our life because he can't not be. He is fully involved in keeping me alive. Therefore the Bible has the authority to tell us what we must do.

Marriage, Abortion, Gender, and Evangelism

17 people agreed. Yes it do all right. We're down to the last page. Down to the last two pages. I'll go quickly. Learning about theology is for pastors and scholars only. They all disagree. And I'm thankful sex outside of traditional marriage is a sin.

15 agreed. That means one didn't. One did not agree and one didn't know. Abortion is a sin. 17 people agree. Gender identity is a matter of choice. 16 people disagreed. But one did not. One agreed. Yes was it.

Are you the agreement. Then did you get the answer. Are you. Are you. Are you telling us something. Brock number 30. The Bible's condemnation of homosexual behavior doesn't apply today. 17 people disagree.

Religious belief is a matter of personal opinion. It is not about objective truth. Disagree. And all 17 disagreed. The Bible is the highest authority for what I believe. 17 people agreed. It is very important for me to personally encourage non-christians to trust Christ as their Savior.

16 agreed. One said they somewhat agree. I think the issue on that one would be the the the either the statement very important. Well how important it is it. And personally encourage. I think I think some people feel like personal evangelism is not their gift.

And maybe they felt like doesn't apply to everybody equally. But I do think that we all have the responsibility to if nothing else be a witness for what Christ has done for us and to point people toward it's like you know the you know I'm just one blind beggar telling another blind beggar where to find bread.

You know if nothing else we can point people to where the bread is. 34. Two more. 34 Jesus Christ death on the cross is the only sacrifice that can remove my penalty of sin. 17 agreed. Praise God. 35 only those who trust in Jesus Christ alone as their Savior received God's free gift of eternal salvation.

17 agreed. Praise the Lord. So what was my point in doing this. Well I wanted to remind you guys that this survey is helpful. It kind of gets down to brass tacks when it is regarding the things of theology.

But it also shows us that even in a group as small as ours there's some diversity and some people who just haven't understood everything the way maybe we would. So it's important to also when you're doing a survey to read the whole thing to read the quote you know because I think some of these are just they didn't read it.

I think especially the one about Jesus being a good teacher or whatever. I think sometimes people just don't read the whole thing. Well of course he was a good teacher. True you know. So I think you know to give the benefit of the doubt on that years ago and I've talked about this for years.

I've always wanted to sit down with our church and do a theological survey like this on a more on more of a church level. This was for the Academy but to do it on the church level not for the purpose of going around and saying John I can't believe you wouldn't know that.

Or Daisy I can't believe you believe that. Because I wouldn't want that. But what I what it does help for me is to key in on areas where I haven't been clear to key in on areas that we haven't been as explicit in our teaching.

So the survey is helpful in that regard kind of shows where there's still confusion. So with that being said if you have confusion about something that I'm teaching please always feel free to send me a message to come by and talk to me after class email Facebook whatever.

Because this is the most important thing in the world is not you just sitting in the classes and writing your papers but is that you get the information right. And as my old professor used to say he said it's not.

It's not about getting through with the lesson. It's about getting the lesson through to you. And so I talk fast and I go through a lot of material. But if it's not getting through tell me. Because that's my goal because I want you to know these things.

Okay let's pray father I thank you for this time. I pray that it has been fruitful for all of us most of all Lord that you've been glorified in Jesus name Amen.