Discussion: Ligonier Theology Survey

ladies and gentlemen we are gonna we are gonna step away from the discussion of the

Holy Spirit and I I feel bad because I said earlier we should not ever relegate the Holy Spirit and now here we are gonna cut our time in class to talk about something else but I told you guys at the beginning of this semester that on week five and this is week five we were going to discuss huh

I thought you said I was it is week five right this is okay we are going to discuss the

Ligonier ministries theology survey now I put this out an email

I put this out on Facebook and I know some of you had trouble accessing it and some of you had trouble doing the survey but by show of hands how many of you did the survey okay miss

Jackie have you even seen it okay all right but but you so you did get the email today because I emailed it out like a month ago and nobody got that email and I think it actually but you got the one today okay

I understand I understand here's the thing if you have a phone or a tablet and you're on the internet you can pull it up right now

I just couldn't photocopy this for everybody but if you have a if you have a phone or whatever you want to look at it with me you can but we're going to talk about this theological survey put out by Ligonier and we're going to talk about some of the answers that was given by this class because yes

L no no if you're looking for it go to my Facebook page you're on my

Facebook right go to my Facebook page go to Sovereign Grace Academy and it's the first post on Sovereign Grace Academy that's it that's the easiest way

I reposted it today state of theology yep well here's the thing this is 35 questions 35 theology questions that was sent out all over the

United States believers were categorized unbelievers and you know well not all people were categorized and then and then and then believers were categorized so if you look up the state of theology comm you can look at the survey national but I created same survey but limited to just us and 17 people took this survey so some of y 'all and some within our church took the survey so I'm going to talk about some of the answers simply to have us conversate about why people would answer the way they did and the first question for instance and if they're all true or false and you and and and they all have a one to five answer five being agree and one being disagree and then there's two three four is like somewhat agree don't know and then somewhat disagree right so so you either fully agree fully disagree or then you don't know or you somewhat agree right so the first question would be

God is a perfect being and cannot make a mistake 17 people took the survey 17 people agreed

God is a perfect being and cannot make a mistake we would all agree with that number two there is only excuse me there is one true

God and three persons God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit 17 people agreed so I was happy about that number three

God accepts the worship of all religions including Christianity Judaism and Islam 17 people took the test or took the quiz survey and 17 people disagreed so they all disagreed no

I was happy with that by the way I was happy with all of the ones on the first sheet but the second sheet get some markers but I but I'm not sure that people understood the questions that's what we're going to talk about tonight what about this question is difficult because so far so good right number four

God created male and female 17 answers 17 agrees that's good number five biblical accounts of the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus are completely accurate this event actually occurred 17 answers all agreed so again first page we were cooking with gas then we get to page two number six

Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God 12 disagreed one was not sure and for agreed with that statement why do you think someone would agree with that statement yes possibly

I'm not sure it went that deep I think they saw first and greatest and just figured yes the but what's the big issue with it created

Christ is not created he has always existed in the form of the second person of the

Trinity I think that's I think first and greatest probably confuse them but but this is one of those times where theology really matters when people see that Jesus created

I think they have to you know we have to distinguish there and this is why

I as I always say even in even in situations where you guys are coming to theology classes and we have people in our church who've been you know here for a long time even where good theology is taught sometimes we get we get confused and we want to make sure we're doing our best to be as be as accurate as we can number seven

Jesus was a great teacher but he was not God yeah but one person agreed that one it doesn't tell me by the way for those of you who are watching this online or anyone who might be interested this this does not tell me who because I'd already been at their house

I I wish that was a lie no

I mean this really that one would have gotten my attention again I don't know who it was this is completely anonymous survey

I have no idea who did but whoever's watching this if you just happen to be that person or maybe it was one of you and you just don't want to say

I would I would take great issue with saying Jesus was not God because that's that's a biblical truism but it's obviously something at least one person either misunderstood or disagreed with all right the

Holy Spirit is a force but is not a personal being disagree 14 people disagreed one person did not know and two people agreed the

Holy Spirit is a force not a person and what should they have done should have taken this class tonight because we spent the whole first half of tonight's class on that very thing all right number nine the

Holy Spirit gives a spiritual new birth or a new life before a person has faith in Jesus now that was again the lesson of the evening so what would we say agree the

Holy Spirit does give spiritual new birth or life before a person has faith in Jesus but as I said earlier yes yes but it's still prioritized in the one causes the other no worries no worries but ten people agreed two people did not know and five disagreed so this is another one where I think there there it could be a confusion of what's being said but it could also be just a disagreement they think that holy the

Holy Spirit regenerates after faith and there are some people who believe that that's the Armenian position is that faith precedes regeneration the

Calvinistic position is regeneration precedes faith so there could be a theological difference there all right number ten the

Holy Spirit can tell me to do something which is forbidden in the Bible everybody disagreed thank

God 17 17 knows everyone sends a little but most people are good by nature 17 knows if I if I have preached anything in the last 15 years of being the pastor if I have taught anything it's that you're all bad and I'm bad and everybody's bad and so I'm thankful that that was 17 does number 12 even the smallest sin deserves eternal damnation that is true but only 15 people agreed two people disagreed

I I think that's a difficult question for a lot of people to really wrap their mind around even a small sin deserves the wrath of God yes well that's

James's argument right yeah if you if you if you say I have not committed murder but you have stolen then you're still broken the law right you break the law in one part it's like a it's like a bowl that holds water if you put a hole in it in one spot all the water is gonna pour out yeah yeah yeah number 13

God counts a person as righteous not because of one's works but only because of one's faith in Jesus Christ 16 people agreed only one said they somewhat agreed

I but at least that they weren't fully disagreeing

I think maybe they just wanted to make sure they were close yeah number 14 the

Bible like all sacred writings contains helpful account of ancient myths but is not literally true 16 people disagreed and one agreed that the

Bible contains myths and is not literally true what's from within this class and I don't know who all from the church took it but was available to our church as well so remember this class used to be a lot bigger so was that you well if you just took it then

I'm not looking at your answer because because I printed this about three hours ago so if you just took it

I don't see your results yeah

I was told I had the guy at the church who told me I don't believe the whole Bible's true and I said well you're in the wrong church yeah he has later in that same conversation you want to argue with me about Calvinism I said we can't have that conversation he said why

I said cuz you told me earlier you don't believe the whole Bible's true so all I have to do is point to Bible verses that prove

Calvinism is true and all you have to say is I don't believe those Bible verses and the conversations over why am I going to waste time trying to convince you of something you already don't believe conversations over all right moving on to number 15 the

Bible is a hundred percent accurate in what it teaches here's the rub everybody agreed so going back to the person who just said it was not literal maybe they were confused because everybody agreed with the

Bible is completely accurate I I again want to say though being very clear especially if anybody's watching this if you were part of this survey and you disagreed with these answers or you want to talk about this is this is why we're having this class so we can have these conversations and if you're if you're in a situation where you feel like and I'm saying this to any of you or anybody listening who might be listening to the recording later if you're in a situation where you're like hey

I disagree with that come talk to me if you feel like I'm teaching something wrong I want to know why or if you feel like I you know you this is important stuff this is not you know what color the carpet is or what this is important theological truth that we we should be seeking to to get to get right number 16 modern science disproves the

Bible yeah 16 people disagreed only one said they weren't sure okay number 17

God will always reward true faith with material blessings in this life 16 disagreed one said they weren't sure number 18 hell is a real place where certain people will be punished forever 17 people agreed which is amazing because hell is usually the thing that very few people agree on so the fact that we have agreement on hell is well pretty amazing all right worshiping alone or with one's family is a valid replacement for regularly attending church and 17 people disagreed

I was thankful for that one now this one is a little heavy this not heavy but maybe more difficult

Christians should be silent on the issue of politics 14 people disagreed three people said they didn't know nobody agreed they just said they didn't know and I I can respect that they might not really think that Christians should be protesting or something maybe that maybe they read it that way you know

I don't know number 22 this one's this yes sir yep no no

I get what you're saying nails and we have to we have to be faithful to the

Bible the first thing the Bible does command of us in Romans 13 and in first Peter is that we be obedient citizens right obey the civil government but we also see in Scripture that anytime the government calls on us to disobey

God we have to obey men or obey God rather than men so there are times where allegiance to God outweighs allegiance to state but as the scripture clearly says the goal of the

Christian is to live to live a peaceable and quiet life meaning that we are we are obedient as far as it goes and we're not we're not you know rebels and tyrants and or not rebels and and and all that you know we're doing our best to be good citizens and I think we should so but should we be silent like for instance on the topic of abortion no babies are being murdered we need to speak out should we be silent on the issue of homosexuality no this is an ascent against God and we have to speak out so I think that's really the heart of the question all right number 22

I'm wearing my glasses because I printed it really small because it would have been a hundred pages if I didn't

God chose the people he would say before he created the world of course you would you're

Calvinist John well here is what the answers came about God chose the people he would say before the created world 15 people agreed so we got a room of majority

Calvinist but see here's the thing though even if you're not a Calvinist I think you could still affirm this and I'll explain why in a minute one person somewhat agreed and one person said they disagreed so still a pretty wide margin here's the thing even if you don't believe in in in deterministic predestination you would still say

God chose the people he would save because he chose to say believers so I mean you could still affirm it even as a

Arminian I mean you'd have to say God chose to save and therefore chose whom he would say so I I really don't think the questions that difficult even from an

Arminian perspective the question becomes the particular nature of the termination of how he he chose them but the fact that he knew he was going to say before the foundation the world is pretty obvious whichever whichever way you go okay 23 churches must provide entertaining worship services if they want to be effective at least all 17 disagreed but that's a great question isn't it

I would love to see and I didn't look but I would love to go on the website and actually see what the world's answer to that was like see what like none yeah because I have heard so many times pastor the reason why you don't have people come into your church is because you need a better music program or you need a you need a better lighting system or you need a better monitor system or you need a better sound system oh it's because they're just not getting entertained or they're not whatever so so so even though all the people who took this survey we're on the side of the angels not everybody okay number 24

God is unconcerned with my day -to -day decisions 16 people disagreed but one agreed

I imagine they probably took that day -to -day decisions as being the mundane parts of life and they guess they just don't think

God's concerned about that I'm just trying to be you know gracious but God is concerned with every aspect of our life because he can't not be he is fully involved in keeping me alive therefore the

Bible has the authority to tell us what we must do 17 people agreed yes it do all right we're down to the last page down to the last two pages together

I'll go quickly learning about theology is for pastors and scholars only they all disagreed

I'm thankful sex outside of traditional marriage is a sin 15 agreed that means one didn't one did not agree and one didn't know abortion is a sin 17 people agreed gender identity is a matter of choice 16 people disagreed but one did not one agreed yes was it are you the agreement then did you get the answer are you are you are you telling us something right number 30 the

Bible's condemnation of homosexual behavior doesn't apply today 17 people disagreed religious belief is a matter of personal opinion it is not about objective truth disagree and all 17 disagreed the

Bible is the highest authority for what I believe 17 people agreed it is very important for me to personally encourage non -christians to trust

Christ as their Savior 16 agree one said they somewhat agree

I think the issue on that one would be the the the either the statement very important well how important it is it and personally encouraged

I think I think some people feel like personal evangelism is not their gift and maybe they felt like doesn't apply to everybody equally but I do think that we all have the responsibility to if nothing else be a witness for what

Christ has done for us and to point people toward it's like you know the you know I'm just one blind beggar telling another blind beggar where to find bread you know if nothing else we can point people to where the bread is 34 two more 34

Jesus Christ death on the cross is the only sacrifice that can remove my penalty of sin 17 agreed praise

God 35 only those who trust in Jesus Christ alone as their

Savior received God's free gift of eternal salvation 17 agreed praise the

Lord so what was my point in doing this well I wanted to remind you guys that this survey is helpful it kind of gets down to brass tacks when it is regarding the things of theology but it also shows us that even in a group as small as ours there's some diversity and some people who just haven't understood everything the way maybe we would so it's important to also when you're doing a survey to read the whole thing to read the quote you know because I think some of these are just they didn't read it

I think especially the one about Jesus being a good teacher or whatever I think sometimes people just don't read the whole thing of course he was a good teacher true you know so I think you know to give the benefit of the doubt on that years ago and I've talked about this for years

I've always wanted to sit down with our church and do a theological survey like this on a more on more of a church level this was for the

Academy but to do it on the church level not for the purpose of going around and saying John I can't believe you wouldn't know that or Daisy I can't believe you believe that because I wouldn't want that but what

I what it does help for me is to key in on areas where I haven't been clear to key on on areas that we haven't been as explicit in our teaching so the survey is helpful in that regard kind of shows where there's still confusion so with that being said if you have confusion about something that I'm teaching please always feel free to send me a message to come by and talk to me after class email

Facebook whatever because this is the most important thing in the world is not you just sitting in the classes and writing your papers but is that you get the information right and as my old professor used to say he said it's not it's not about getting through with the lesson it's about getting the lesson through to you and so I talk fast and I go through a lot of material but if it's not getting through tell me because that's my goal is

I want you to know these things okay let's pray father I thank you for this time

I pray that it has been fruitful for all of us most of all Lord that you've been glorified in Jesus name