Theology Q&A

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I don't know how many of you are familiar with this situation, but Hank Hanegraaff is the Bible Answer Man.
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He's very famous on radio stations all over the United States and probably around the world.
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And Hank Hanegraaff, I met him a few years ago at a Bible conference.
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Hank recently left, or didn't leave his church, I guess he joined an Eastern Orthodox church.
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And a lot of people have had questions about that and have asked the question, in fact the question has been asked, has Hank Hanegraaff left the Christian faith? Because he has joined with the Eastern Orthodox church.
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And so Rosanna, knowing that he had done that, sent me this question via email.
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She said, in light of the recent conversion of the Bible Answer Man to Eastern Orthodoxy, can you explain the differences and the issues that surround the system of Eastern Orthodoxy? So I thought about that and I wanted to respond to that and give a response to that particular question.
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I'm guessing we're still on, so we'll continue.
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Often times when people think about Christianity, people often think about one major division.
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They think about Catholics and Protestants.
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And typically, if you live in the West, as we do, we tend to think of it that way.
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We tend to think of the division between the churches as you're either a Catholic or you're a Protestant.
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Now, I understand that if you're a Protestant, you could be one of several denominations.
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You could be a Methodist, you could be a Baptist, you could be part of a non-denominational church, but still consider yourself Protestant.
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But very few people are familiar with the Eastern church.
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And what's interesting about that is that the Eastern church did divide from the Roman Catholic church prior to the Protestant Reformation.
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The Eastern church divided from the Western church in 1054 as a result of questions of authority.
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Some people will say that the reason for the division was the Philioquy Clause.
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I know I said that.
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Let me say that again.
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Philioquy Clause, and that is the clause in the Nicene Creed.
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The Nicene Creed states that the Son is begotten of the Father, and the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.
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Well, that's what the Nicene Creed says now.
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But when it was written, it didn't say that.
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It said that the Son is begotten of the Father, and the Spirit proceeds from the Father.
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It didn't say, and the Son.
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But during the Middle Ages, one of the great controversies was that there was an inclusion of a clause in the Nicene Creed that added the term, and the Son.
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Right? And that is called the Philioquy Clause, or the Clause about the Son.
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And so that particular issue caused the division, but not by itself.
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People think that was the reason for the division.
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What was the reason for the division was the issue of authority.
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Because the addition of the clause was a unilateral addition.
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It was not done with the authority of all of the churches, but it had as its authority the Roman Church.
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And the Roman Pontiff, who we know is called the Pope, was exercising a certain amount of authority that the Eastern Churches didn't believe belonged to him.
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And so the division was more a division of authority.
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It was a division of who really has the power to make such a claim, or to make such a change in the history of the Church.
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And so, we today, if we use the Nicene Creed, which we have in certain times, we use the Western version, which says that the Spirit proceedeth from the Father and the Son.
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But this is an issue regarding the Eastern Orthodox Church.
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The Eastern Orthodox Church, if I want to say one thing very positive about them, the one positive thing I can say about the Eastern Orthodox Church, they are very Trinitarian.
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They study and have a better understanding of the Trinity than most Protestants, and I would even argue most Catholics.
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They make the Trinity a very important watermark in their faith.
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And it does play an important role in the understanding of salvation.
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However, where Eastern Orthodoxy finds the problem, and where I would say the problem also lies with Roman Catholics, is on the issue of justification.
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What was the reason for the Protestant Reformation? Well, it was the question of how is a sinful man made right with a holy God? I mean, you could go to all kinds of things that brought about the Protestant Reformation.
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But really, if you get to the brass tacks of the Protestant Reformation, is man justified by faith alone, or is he justified not by faith alone? The Protestants said man is justified before God by faith alone.
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You remember what the sola is for that? Sola fide.
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Justification by faith alone.
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This is a doctrine that didn't get invented in the 16th century, but was a doctrine that began to be expressed fully in the 16th century because it had been lost, because it had been put aside, because the church had invented things that were not biblical, such as the treasury of merit, which was a place that was storing up not only the merits of Christ, but those of Mary and those of the saints.
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And that's what we draw from to be able to be saved ourselves, is from this treasury of merit, the thesaurus meritorium.
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It's really an unbiblical view of how a person is saved.
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And it's a problem.
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And in the Eastern Orthodox Church, they also deny justification by faith alone.
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They believe in several different doctrines, but one particularly is called theosis.
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Theosis is basically a process wherein a person experiences union with God and is made holy.
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And it is through that process, ultimately, what they call deification, where a person is ultimately saved.
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Sort of like our doctrine of sanctification.
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Do you know what our doctrine of sanctification says? That once you are justified by faith alone, God begins the process of conforming you to Christ.
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He begins the process of making you more like Christ.
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Do you believe that today, that God is sanctifying you? If you're married, one of the things marriage does is sanctifies us.
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If you're in a relationship with friends, our friends sanctify us, because we have to learn to forgive.
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We have to learn to interact in love.
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And we have to learn a lot of things.
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And if you're in a church, that's part of the sanctifying process, because we have to learn to submit to Scripture.
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Learn to submit to one another.
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All these things, right? So, having said all that, the doctrine of theosis is not the same as sanctification, because we do not believe that the doctrine of sanctification is what saves us.
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We believe that we are saved, justified by faith alone.
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And sanctification is how we are conformed to Christ.
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But in the Eastern Orthodox system, and again, I don't want to murder it by explaining it poorly, but in the Eastern Orthodox system, this process by where this deification occurs is one of the ways by which a person is united with God, or united with the Godhead through this process.
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And so salvation then is not by faith alone, but it is by faith plus these other things.
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And one of the things about, and I don't want to spend all the time on Eastern Orthodoxy tonight, but one of the things about Eastern Orthodoxy that got my attention as I was looking it over, is that it is very proudly synergistic.
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Do you know what synergism is? Synergism is that salvation is God cooperating, or me cooperating with God to bring about my salvation.
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God calls me to repent, and I respond in repentance and faith, and we cooperate together to bring about my salvation.
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You say, well, what's wrong with that? Well, the Bible teaches something else.
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The Bible teaches monergism.
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Monergism, by the way, the word ergos means work.
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Synergism means together, working, sort of like, think of synonym, two words that mean the same thing.
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Synergism means God and I are working together for my salvation.
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Monergism, I believe God does everything.
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God gives me the ability to believe.
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God gives me the ability to repent.
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God gives me the ability to be sanctified.
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God is the one working it out completely.
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That's mono, one, ergos, work, so there's one worker, it's God.
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I'm the recipient.
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I'm not working together with God.
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He's the one working on me.
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But here's what one Eastern Orthodox writer writes.
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He writes this regarding synergism.
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God becomes powerless before human freedom.
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He cannot violate it since it flows from His own omnipotence.
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Certainly man was created by the will of God alone, but he cannot be deified or made holy by it alone.
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Is that confusing? Basically, he says God becomes powerless before our free will.
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God becomes powerless before our freedom.
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That's a big issue for me.
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That's quite the issue when it comes to how do I understand God.
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Well, I understand God as having all freedom and all power, and He's not limited by me.
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So again, if somebody says, well, what's the issue with Eastern Orthodoxy? I think that they have an unbiblical view of salvation that primarily deals with the issue of justification.
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How is a sinful man made right with a holy God? Is it by faith alone or not? They would say not.
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And they would agree with the Roman Catholics on that.
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They would say justification is not by faith alone.
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If you have a Bible, turn to Galatians.
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Okay.
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If you're in Galatians, go to chapter 1, verse 6.
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Paul is talking to the Galatians who had been influenced by the Judaizers.
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Now, the Judaizers were teaching that for you to be a Christian, you must first be a Jew.
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And if you're going to be a Christian, you must first go through the process of becoming a Jew, which included what major change? Circumcision.
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Circumcision was required to become a Jew.
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So before you could become a Christian, you had to become a Jew.
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So circumcision was an issue.
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Paul says this, I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel.
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Note, number 1, in verse 6, he says there is a different gospel.
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But then he says in verse 7, not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
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So what he is saying is there is one gospel, but there are people who turn to other things that they call the gospel that aren't the gospel.
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They are false gospels.
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You guys understand that, right? You understand that not everything that calls itself the gospel is the gospel? I can tell you, if you go down to the Mormon church, and you talk to those guys on the 10 speeds, they will talk about the gospel.
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But it ain't the gospel.
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You have the Jehovah Witnesses come to your door on Saturday morning, and they have the Awake magazine and the Watchtower magazine.
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They all want to talk about the gospel.
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But it ain't the gospel.
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Paul says there is one gospel.
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There is not a lot of gospels, but there are a lot of things that call themselves the gospel.
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Okay? And he says this in verse 8, But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
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As we have said before, so now I say it again.
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If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
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That word means to be separated or put out.
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It's essentially the word for anathema.
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They are to be put away.
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You say, well, how does this relate to what we're talking about? Paul was dealing with people who were saying, here's what we have to add to the gospel.
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We have to add circumcision to the gospel.
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And Paul said, that is enough to make it not the gospel.
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You add one thing.
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You add one thing to the gospel and it is no longer the gospel.
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And so, if somebody says, what is your issue with Eastern Orthodoxy? They've added to the gospel because they do not teach justification by grace alone, through faith alone.
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Now they teach justification by grace through faith.
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But where is the great distinction? Alone.
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The word alone.
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Again, if you ask an Eastern Orthodox person, do you believe in justification by grace through faith? They'll say yes.
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But do you believe in justification by grace through faith alone? They will say no.
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And that is the demarcation point.
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You say, is that enough to make somebody be a false teacher? I'll say this.
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Paul thought it was enough to anathematize or to accurse anyone who would add only circumcision to the gospel.
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And I will say this, Roman Catholics have added so much more to the gospel.
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Eastern Orthodoxy adds so much more to the gospel than justification by grace through faith alone.
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So, somebody said, well, do you believe people can be saved in Eastern Orthodox Church? Here's my answer.
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It's very simple.
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People are saved by faith alone.
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But they're not saved by the doctrine of faith alone.
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There are people in these systems that are saved by their faith in Christ.
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But I do believe that they're saved in spite of what they're being taught.
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Not because of what they're being taught.
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Because what they're being taught is that you're not saved by faith alone.
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If you go to the Council of Trent, I know that now I'm confusing Catholicism with Eastern Orthodoxy.
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But if you just hear me out for a second.
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If you go to the Council of Trent and you read what it says, it specifically says we're not saved by faith alone.
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It accurses, it anathematizes anyone who says we're saved by faith alone.
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We are all under the curse of the Council of Trent.
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And so is the Apostle Paul.
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Because he taught justification by grace alone, through faith alone.
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So, I do think it's a pretty big issue that the Bible Answer Man has converted.
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Am I riding him out of the kingdom? No.
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But I do think that he's going down a road which leads to a place where the gospel is not properly proclaimed.
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And as a man who has, for several decades now, proclaimed himself the Bible Answer Man, it seems as if he has abandoned the foundation of what is the biblical teaching on justification.
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Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
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That's Romans 5.1.
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Therefore, having been justified, past tense, we have, present tense, peace with God.
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It's a current thing.
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It's not something we're hoping for.
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It's not something we're moving towards.
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We either have peace with God or we don't.
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And if we have peace with God, it's because we've been justified by grace through faith alone.
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Alright.
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Yeah, ask.
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I tend to believe that God would move a person out of false teaching.
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That he wouldn't leave them there.
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And I would just leave it there.
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I would say that I believe that God would lead a person out of false teaching.
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But I'm not going to say that there's an impossibility of a person dying in that and yet not being saved.
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As I said, a person is saved because they believe in the finished work of Christ.
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And a person is saved because they have repented of their sin and they've trusted in the absolute sufficiency of the work of Christ.
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And I do believe that if a person is in a system like that, God would lead them out of that.
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But I'm not God.
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So I can't say in every instance how that would be.
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That's a good question though.
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That's a question that a lot of people have.
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And I think it's a legitimate one for sure.
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Alright.
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Anybody have anything else on that before we move on? Any other questions? Some of you don't know who Hank Canegraaff is.
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So that probably didn't affect you much.
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But maybe you didn't know anything about Eastern Orthodoxy.
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I do know this.
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A lot of people confuse Eastern Orthodoxy with Roman Catholicism.
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It's not the same thing.
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And a lot of people, because they do have a similar style in the way of dress and behavior and worship.
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And people often confuse the two.
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They're not the same.
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And it does behoove us to know a little bit more of the history of that.
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Especially if you have friends or anything else.
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Yes, sir, Mr.
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Richard.
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Again, he has...
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But you know what though? Hank has always been opposed to Reformed theology.
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You know what I mean? Even though Hank is the Bible Answer Man, Hank's never been Reformed.
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Hank's always been an Arminian, as it were.
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So this is an extension.
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Synergism and Arminianism are really just two peas in a pod, as it were.
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They go hand in hand.
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And so it's not surprising to see him going into a system that's even more synergistic.
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Proudly synergistic.
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I have a few other email questions.
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But before I do those, does anybody have anything? That's a good question.
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The first thing in the question, in case you didn't hear it, is, can you discount all of his past works? No.
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But I will say this.
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I was never much of a person who was going to use his works anyway, because of what I just said.
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He is an Arminian.
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And a lot of what he already believed, even before switching to Eastern Orthodoxy, converting, I shouldn't say switching, before converting to Eastern Orthodoxy, he already had a position which was, I would say, had a sub-biblical view of God and how God saves.
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I've heard him just come down harshly on the subject of God's sovereignty and salvation, particularly on Calvinism.
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So I didn't really have much of interest in what he had to say before, as far as using his materials.
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I'm sure there's some diamonds in there that I've never seen.
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But what he has said is that he has not abandoned anything that he's written.
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The problem is he's now reinterpreting a lot of what he has previously said.
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And that's what's scary.
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Because he's saying nothing's changed.
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No, a lot has changed.
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You can't say nothing's changed.
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If you switch from being a Protestant to being an Eastern Orthodox, you can't say nothing has changed.
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Okay, good question.
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I did get a question online.
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Proves that people are listening.
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Don Hemingway, hi Don, asked, aren't there even divisions within Eastern Orthodoxy and don't some of their doctrines vary between groups? Yes.
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This is where Eastern Orthodoxy does differentiate itself from Roman Catholicism.
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In Roman Catholicism, there is a single point leader, and that is the Pope.
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But in Eastern Orthodox, you do not have that.
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You have leaders of the various groups of Eastern Orthodox.
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You have the Russian Orthodox.
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You have various different Orthodox groups.
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But all identify themselves as part of the Orthodox Church, which I don't know if you guys remember this.
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Jack may remember this from years ago.
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Paul might.
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Shirley might.
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Years and years ago, we had a church member here who, they were having a wedding, and somebody, no, it was a funeral.
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And somebody from the funeral was Eastern Orthodox, and he came in and he had a long black robe, and he had an ivory cross that was hanging around his neck.
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He had long gray hair, and he was bald on the top.
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He really looked like he had stepped out of a Gothic film.
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I mean, he just really had a very, very distinct look.
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And he walked in, sort of had his hands, I mean, just very priestly.
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And I remember this.
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It was the proudest I was ever of our former pastor.
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He said, he came up to him and he said, he says, you may call me Father.
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And Darrell said, no, I won't.
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I was so proud.
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I said, thank you.
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Yes, I'm not going to call you Father.
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So, but anyhow, that was just an interesting historical note.
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But I say that only to say this.
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There was a bumper sticker on his car, and it said, Orthodoxy, proclaiming the truth since A.D.
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33.
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And I remember thinking, well, that's what they believe.
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The Orthodox Church believes it is the true church, not a true church.
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And I hope I've made that distinction before.
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And if I haven't, the goal of this church is not to be the true church.
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It's to be a true church.
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A true church is a local body that's preaching the gospel, that's properly administrating the ordinances, and that is exercising discipline in its body, teaching the Word of God under the authority of the Word of God, under the leadership of elders that are ordained properly by the church, and deacons who are serving in the ministry of the church.
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That's a church.
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A church.
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But the Eastern Church believes, the Orthodox Church believes, it's the church that has going all the way back to Christ.
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That they're the unbroken line all the way back.
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Roman Catholics say the same thing.
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The seat that the Pope sits on is supposed to be who? It's the cathedra petri.
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What's that? The seat of Peter.
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And they believe that the Pope is, in fact, the one who goes back to Peter.
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Obviously, we would disagree with that.
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I would disagree with it wholeheartedly.
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But the reality is that is what the Orthodox Church believes.
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But are there divisions now? Yes.
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And a lot of people in Orthodox churches, especially in nations that are Orthodox, as far as nations influenced, people are born into those churches.
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And so it becomes very much a dead orthodoxy.
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But to say the same thing, it can be said of Protestants, it can be said of Catholics.
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There are people who are born Catholics, and they're just Catholics by birth.
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There are people who are born Baptists, and they're Baptists by birth.
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That's why I make the point, nobody is born into the kingdom of God.
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You're born again into the kingdom of God.
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And so I hope that was helpful.
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Boy, we have a lot of people who have commented.
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That's pretty cool.
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Got a guy watching from Dublin, Ireland.
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So that's pretty interesting.
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So anyhow, that deals with that question.
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I hope we were fair.
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One thing I want to say about Hanegraaff is that, again, I'm not trying to destroy or besmirch him as a person.
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The question was asked, what does it mean when we say he has switched to Eastern Orthodoxy? Well, this is where he has gone.
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And this is the primary issue between Catholics and Protestants, and Orthodox and Protestants, is doctrine of justification by faith alone.
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And so that would be the issue that we would say is the primary issue.
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Are there others? Yes.
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But none that are as primary as that.
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All right.
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Want to move on? We're running out of time.
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I still got a couple more questions.
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We good? All right.
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Let's see here.
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Dave Waring asked a question about a Bible verse.
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I invite you to turn to 1 Corinthians 15.
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This is what he wrote.
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I'm just going to read his email while you're turning.
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I had the blessing of a great interaction with three Jehovah Witnesses, or no, with a Jehovah Witness three weeks ago.
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He showed up again last week and brought another equally pleasant gentleman along.
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We visited and challenged one another for a good hour or so.
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They had their book.
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I had the Word of God.
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I like the confidence there.
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Both sides were respectful, and I pray that the Lord will allow further conversations with them.
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But in the course of things, one place he went that I wasn't at all ready for was 1 Corinthians 15, 24-28.
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His emphasis was in trying to show that Jesus is less than, or created by God rather than co-equal.
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This all on the heels of my walking them through Philippians 2, 5-11.
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I don't have a pointed question, but wondered if you have had the opportunity to expound on this point of Scripture, or this portion of Scripture.
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Well, let me say this.
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This particular verse of Scripture I have not expounded on.
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I have not taught through 1 Corinthians.
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I have taught several times in different places in 1 Corinthians, but I did have to look up this passage and spend a little bit of time with it.
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But I want to begin by addressing this before we even read the text.
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Subordinationism is the view that Jesus Christ is less than God the Father, that He is subordinate to God the Father, and it is opposed to the view that is held in the doctrine of the Trinity, because the doctrine of the Trinity teaches that Jesus Christ is co-equal and co-eternal.
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You remember we did the doctrine of the Trinity study? We studied for several weeks here on the doctrine of the Trinity, and we taught from Scripture the equality of the members of the Godhead.
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The God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit are all God.
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And then we come to this passage, 1 Corinthians 15, verse 24 to 28.
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24 says, Then comes the end when He delivers the kingdom of God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
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For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
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The last enemy to be destroyed is death, for God has put all things in subjection under His feet.
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But when it says all things are put in subjection, it is plain that He is accepted who put all things in subjection under Him.
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When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to Him who put all things in subjection under Him, that God may be all in all.
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So, if you didn't catch what the controversial part is, let me maybe see if I can help.
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In verse 28 it says, When all things are subjected to Him, that is Christ, I'm sorry, that is the Father, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to Him who put all things in subjection under Him, that God may be all in all.
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So, in this passage it does reference subjection of the Son to the Father.
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And so, Jehovah Witnesses will use this particular passage to argue and say, Okay, here it is.
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We believe that Jesus is less than the Father.
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We believe that Jesus is subject to the Father.
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And this passage teaches that He is subject to the Father.
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And there it is.
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There is our argument.
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So, the question becomes, does this passage teach that Jesus is going to be or is subject to the Father? And the answer is, yes.
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Read it again.
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When all things are subjected to Him, that is the Father, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to Him who put all things in subjection under Him, that God may be all in all.
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You say, well, how can you say that the Son is subject to the Father if He is, in fact, God? When we address God, we address God as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
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But when we address Jesus, we address Jesus as God and man.
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And any time we address Jesus, we have to understand that there are times when the Bible speaks touching His divinity, and there are times when the Bible speaks touching His humanity.
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When Jesus said to the Pharisees, before Abraham was, I am, He was referencing His own divinity.
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He was saying, before Abraham was, I existed, and I have always existed.
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In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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The Word has always existed, Jesus being the Word.
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But in His humanity, there is subjection.
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The Bible says that Jesus humbled Himself and became a man, and in doing so, experienced a type of subjection in His humanity.
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Now, I would say this, if I were arguing with a Jehovah Witness, I would know from the get-go that they are not going to accept the dual nature of Jesus Christ.
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In fact, if you ever talk to somebody, and they say to you, well, if Jesus was God, why did He pray? They are not understanding from the very beginning that we are talking about Jesus as having two natures.
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Jesus had a nature which was divine, and is divine, and He has a nature which is human, and that nature will continue.
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Is Jesus still a man today? Oh, that's a tough question.
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The Bible says He was resurrected as a resurrected in His body.
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His body ascended into heaven.
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I believe He continues to have a resurrected body today.
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I believe that Jesus has a glorified body today.
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And in that regard, I do believe that there is a mediation that's happening between Him and the Father.
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The Bible says what? The Bible says that He forever intercedes for His people.
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Right? As our mediator, as our advocate, and in that humanity, there is subjection.
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But, this is something I want to point out.
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I want to point out from the Cambridge Bible.
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Because, you guys remember who Athanasius was? Athanasius, in the 4th century, was the one who stood for the doctrine of the Trinity during the time of the Council of Nicaea.
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And he was dealing with this passage.
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This particular verse was dealt with by Athanasius.
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And this is something he says in his dialogue against the Macedonians.
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He says, Christ is subject not by the nature of His divinity, but by the dispensation of His humanity.
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For this subjection, he further remarks, no more involves inferiority of essence than His subjection to Joseph and Mary involved inferiority of His essence to them.
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You remember when He was on the earth, He was subject to His parents.
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But was He inferior to His parents? Not in any way.
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He was still God.
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And yet, He was subject to His parents.
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So, in that regard, Athanasius attempts to point out the fact that in His humanity, Jesus takes on a certain role.
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But His divinity is not compromised by the role of His humanity.
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And so, would this be something that a Jehovah Witness would accept? No, but the Jehovah Witnesses are not dealing with the whole of Scripture.
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The Jehovah Witnesses are dealing with the parts that they want to tear out and divorce from the rest of Scripture.
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The most difficult thing that we have to understand when we're dealing with anyone who is cherry-picking little verses here and there is they're not dealing with the whole of Scripture.
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They're dealing with one or two or three or four passages that they pull out of their context.
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Because what is the context of 1 Corinthians 15? Why we believe in the resurrection of the dead.
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If you go back and study 1 Corinthians 15.
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Resurrected from the dead.
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Why? Why are we resurrected from the dead? Because He was.
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Why do we trust in the resurrection of the dead? Because He is.
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And why do we know that in the end all things are going to be right? Because God is going to make all things subject to Him.
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And that's the point of this passage.
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Is the fact that it's all moving towards an end.
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Where everything is going to come under the subjection of God.
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And God will be all in all.
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Okay? Alright.
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I have one last question.
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And then we're going to end.
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Unless you guys have a question? Can I at least answer one last one that came via email? And I'll make this one quick.
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Alright.
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I'm running low on battery power.
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So if I lose you guys on Facebook.
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God bless.
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Am I still on for now? Alright.
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Evan Ball.
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Who is a member of our church.
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Who wasn't able to be here tonight.
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Sent a question in via email.
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And his question was this.
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Can you clarify the process of death and resurrection? Specifically what happens between death and the final resurrection of the body when Jesus returns? Is the soul in heaven awaiting the resurrection? Or do you awake instantly at the bodily resurrection? This is a very important and good question.
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Because it's not universally agreed upon by everyone.
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But it has had historically a position that's been held by most mainstream Christians.
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Doesn't mean it's right.
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But the mainstream of Christian history has held this position.
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When you die.
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Spiritually you're with Christ.
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Bodily you're in the ground.
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When the resurrection happens.
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Your spirit which was with Christ is reunited with a new body.
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But your body is glorified.
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Like Christ was glorified.
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And when it comes out of the grave.
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That new body is what goes into eternity.
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You're not going to be floating around.
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Like spiritual imps for history.
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Playing the harp on a cloud.
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You're going to have a physical body.
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And a physical new earth.
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New heavens, new earth.
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Revelation talks about this.
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But there is a belief.
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Called psychopenicia.
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Psychopenicia is the belief that when you die.
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Your soul also is unconscious.
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That not only is your body unconscious.
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But that your soul is unconscious.
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And it stays unconscious until the resurrection.
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That doctrine.
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Psychopenicia.
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Has really only been popularized.
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In groups like Jehovah Witnesses.
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Seventh Day Adventists.
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It's not been part of the mainstream teaching.
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You say well why not? Because when you go again.
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Using the Bible as a whole.
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Not one or two verses that you cherry pick.
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But when you start looking at the Bible as a whole.
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You start to pick up on a theme.
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About death and life.
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One of the things that we see.
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Is like in Matthew chapter 22.
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Matthew 22, 31 and 32.
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Jesus talks about God being the God of Abraham.
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And he said he wouldn't be God of Abraham.
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If Abraham was dead.
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But Abraham lives.
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Go back to it real quick.
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Matthew chapter 22.
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This is an interesting passage.
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Matthew 22.
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Verse 31 and 32.
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Verse 31 it says.
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And as for the resurrection of the dead.
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Have you not read what was said to you by God.
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I am the God of Abraham.
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And the God of Isaac.
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And the God of Jacob.
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He is not the God of the dead.
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But of the living.
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He didn't say I was the God of Abraham.
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Or I was the God of Jacob.
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I am the God of Abraham.
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I am the God of Jacob.
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Because they still exist.
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And they exist with God.
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That's an interesting point Jesus himself made.
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Other places.
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The thief on the cross.
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What did Jesus say to the thief on the cross? Today.
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You will be with me in paradise.
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Now I did hear a guy try to make a pretty creative argument.
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He said Jesus wasn't saying today you'll be with me in paradise.
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He says I say to you today.
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Comma.
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You will be with me in paradise.
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He said they just put the comma in the wrong place.
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He's saying it today about something in the future.
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No Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise.
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Other passages you might want to look at.
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Luke 16.
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Jesus tells the story of Lazarus and the rich man.
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Who were in Sheol together.
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One was in the place of paradise.
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The other was in the place of torment.
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But both were alive at death.
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They were not asleep in the ground.
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2 Corinthians 5.
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6-8 is where Paul talks about being absent from the body and being present with the Lord.
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1 Thessalonians 5.
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9 and 10.
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This is an interesting one.
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1 Thessalonians 5.
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I'll read it to you.
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Let me just pull it up real quick.
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1 Thessalonians 5.
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1 Thessalonians 5.
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9.
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For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or are asleep, we might live with Him.
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You know what being asleep in Scripture talks about, right? It talks about being dead.
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Whether we're awake, meaning alive in the body.
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Or whether we're asleep, meaning the body is dead.
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We are alive with Him.
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We are alive with Him.
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And one of my favorite places to point people in this question.
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And I'll end with this one.
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It's in the book of Revelation chapter 6.
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The book of Revelation chapter 6 talks about the souls of those who've been martyred for their faith.
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And they cry out before the throne of God daily for justice.
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Not only are they alive, but they know how they died.
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So if somebody asks, do you think that when you die are you conscious? Yes.
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I believe that we're conscious.
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Are there passages that seem to talk about death as being asleep? Yes, but that was euphemistic.
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Death as sleep is talking about the body.
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Not about the soul.
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I don't believe in soul sleep.
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I believe that when I die, that my soul...
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I believe, I like Luke 16.
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Because in Luke 16 it says when that poor person died, his soul was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.
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And I believe that when a believer dies, I believe that they are carried by an angelic escort to the presence of God.
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I don't think that there's a time where they sit in the ground unaware of what's happening.
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Some people believe that.
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I disagree.
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And I think the Bible in its whole, not in its part, but in its whole, teaches that when I die, when you die, if you're in Christ when you die, your spirit is with Him.
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So I hope that was helpful.
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I love answering questions.
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I hope that I did so in such a way that's encouraging.
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And I'm sure we'll have some questions come via email, so I encourage those.
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God bless you all.
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Thank you for watching and have a good night.