Have You Not Read S3:E5 - The Conflict in Israel (Part 4)

Welcome to Have You Not Read, a podcast seeking to answer questions from the text of Scripture for the honor of Christ and the edification of the Saints. Before we dig into our topic, we humbly ask you to rate, review, and share the podcast.

Thank you. I'm Dylan Hamilton and with me are Michael.

Durham, Chris Giesler, David Kassin, Andrew Hudson, and today we are revisiting the.

The End of the Age, the Rapture, and Israel in the News

Topic or a topic that's adjacent to the current goings-on in Israel. Are we to expect the end of the age, rapture, and all that comes with it? And we'll let you take off of that, Michael. So it is perhaps not understood, but whenever there is unrest in the world, many times in these last few generations of Christianity and prior and other times in church history, whenever there are important dates that come up or tragedies, plagues, wars, Christians have often asked one another, asked themselves, is this the end?

Are we near the end of time? Questions recently about the warfare going on in Israel look at the danger that the nation-state of Israel is under because of the attack of Hamas upon Israel, the hatred for Israel by so many different nations of the Islamic Caliphate.

They want to destroy Israel, to wipe Israel off the map. All sorts of things have been said about Israel. This is not new. We back up a few years, we'll find a similar situation. A few more years, we'll find a similar situation.

We have seen throughout the last hundred, two hundred years, many times of unrest and warfare, and Christians have been writing and wondering and positing this could be the end. And why is that? Why do Christians feel that way?

Why do we get amped up and wonder if this is the end of something? The end of the church age? The end of the world? Is there going to be a rapture? Are we going to soon disappear? Are all the Christians going to disappear soon?

Should we get ready for that because of Israel being under attack? Why do we think this way? That's a pretty complex question. The answer is very full of history and different types of ways of interpreting the Bible and so on.

But when you go read the Bible, you might get the idea that there's a connection. So for instance, in Luke chapter 21, we have a passage of Scripture that is paralleled in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. There's also some material in Luke 17 that also parallels those other passages as well.

But when we look at this material, we see that there might be a connection somehow. So we need to pay attention. When we come to Luke chapter 21, Jesus observes a widow being essentially coerced out of all the last bits of her money by the temple system.

She gives her last two mites because she thinks that that's the only way for her to be right with God. She has nothing left. How's she gonna eat? What kind of religious system robs a widow of her last two pennies?

Not a just system. Not a holy one. And why was she contributing to the temple? Because the Jews felt, hey, the more beautiful our temple is, the more pleased God is with us, and the more likely we are going to be delivered from our enemies.

They idolized the temple, as Stephen would preach in Acts 7. But, verse 5, then as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, Jesus said, These things which you see, the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.

You know, where is that temple today? But, you know, at that very place where we go on to Google Maps and go take a look, what do.

You see? Dome. Dome. An Islamic shrine. That wailing wall is not the temple wall. That's the retaining wall for the mountain itself that keeps the mountain, you know, up. It's more of a foundation, a retaining wall for the mountain.

But, yeah, we see the Dome of the Rock, the third holiest site in Islam.

Mm-hmm. And that has sat there on that location longer than any Jewish temple has ever sat in the same place. Do the math in history. Now, Jesus said the temple that was sitting there, a beautified temple, rebuilt during the days of Ezra and Nehemiah, but beautified during the days of Herod the Great.

So, that temple, he says, not one stone will be left upon another that shall not be thrown down. Now, for those listening to him, they thought that would mean the end of the world. How can the temple be destroyed and planet Earth still survive?

I mean, that seriously was their point of view, their mindset. Verse 7, so they asked him, saying, Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?

And he said, Take heed that you not be deceived, for many will come in my name, saying, I am he. The time is drawn near, therefore do not go after them. But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified, for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.

I hope everyone's paying attention to what Jesus is saying. We tend to think that false teachers and false claims about Christ and cults and wars and rumors of wars and all kinds of bad things means that the end is immediate.

Jesus says, no, the end will not come immediately. Now, verse 10, then he said to them, Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be great earthquakes in various places and famines and pestilences, and there will be fearful signs and great sights and signs in heaven.

But before all these things they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. But who's he talking to? He is talking to his disciples. And these are the things that you are going to experience and you are going to see, and synagogues are going to judge you and be thrown in prisons.

You will be brought before kings and rulers for my namesake, but it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. Who's Jesus talking to? Disciples still. Talking to his disciples. People, they came to him saying, teacher, when will these things be?

That's who he's talking to. These things will happen to them. Now, that's what Jesus is saying. Jesus does not make idle promises. Is he a good prophet? The best. The best. He tells the truth. Okay, so we know that all of this would be true of those whom he is talking to.

Okay, verse 14, therefore settle in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer, for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.

You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, and you will be hated by all for my namesake. But not a hair of your head will be lost, but by your patience possess your souls.

Now, verse 20, but when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, know then that its.

Desolation is near. So he earlier said immediate, that it won't be immediate, and then here he's talking about a nearness. Yes. But looking specifically for armies.

Surrounding Jerusalem. Right. Now, here's a word to Jesus-loving Bible-believing Christians. We read the words of Christ, you know, sometimes we feel like we're in the same room with him, or we're sitting there listening to him teach us, and you hear Jesus speaking, and you're saying, yes teacher, oh Lord, tell me more.

But remember, he was saying this to his disciples in that time about something that would happen in their near future. We've got to remember what Jesus was saying, and who was actually there. And it wasn't, it's not Jesus pointing at us and saying, you.

He was saying that to his disciples in that time. Verse 20 says, but when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Who's he talking to? He's not talking to us. Now, is it troubling when we see armies, when we see insurgents, when we see violence, when we see destruction, and people advancing, armies advancing against Jerusalem, or perhaps another city somewhere?

Oh, it's very disturbing to our hearts. Like, oh, I don't want to see that. I don't want to see that happening. But when Jesus was talking here, he was talking to his disciples about what they were going to see.

And so he was saying, know that its desolation is near. Now, Christians will sometimes just hear that one verse, and they're gonna think to themselves, oh my, here we are, here's the end. But what was Jesus saying to his original audience?

Verse 21, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Now, just for context's sake, when we read this very same teaching out of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus calls this the Great Tribulation.

And he says, the armies that surround Jerusalem, that is the abomination of desolation. And many times people get worked up about those fancy words, but he explains it here in Luke.

Which is interesting, because in Matthew he's writing to the Jews, so he uses that Jewish terminology, the desolation. And Luke is writing to Gentiles, so he just.

Spells it out, armies surrounding. They don't know the inside lingo, so it's spelled out clearly. That's a call back to Daniel, right? It is. So abomination of.

Desolation, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Let the reader understand, he's like, hey guys, I'm referring to something, you know what this is, what was the abomination of desolation, you know, it's spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

It was an army. And then Luke just sort of says it, well, plainly. Says it plainly, well.

See, but you know, those who knew the inside Jewish baseball of the prophecies, right, even the wink was still there. Hey, let the reader understand. Remember what Daniel said? It's explained here in Luke.

And so how does one escape from the Great Tribulation? Well, let's read, those who were in Judea, fleet of the mountains. Well there you go, that's how you get out of it. Let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Which would be the temptation to run to Judea, to run to Jerusalem, which was a fortified city, in times of duress. But Jesus is saying, do not go to Jerusalem. That is not going to be a safe place for you.

Verse 22, for these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Days of vengeance? Jerusalem is going to be destroyed, apparently. The temple is going to be destroyed, apparently.

And these are days of vengeance? So who's taking vengeance? God is taking vengeance. On who? Jerusalem and Judea. He's destroying the temple. Why would he do that? Because he said he would, in Deuteronomy chapters 28 and 29, if his people broke covenant with him, then he would take vengeance on them.

And he did so down to the last measure that he promised that he would. He always keeps his promises. Verse 23, but woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days. Why is that?

It's really hard to run on foot, right? Nursing babies and being pregnant, it's no problem when you can get on a bus or a subway or a plane. But in those days, that was a problem. For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led away captive into all nations.

And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. And that indeed happened in AD 70 when the Romans overran Jerusalem and controlled the whole area. Now, the following passage in this very same chapter is where a lot of folks will say, but none of that could possibly be about the past.

Because the following language talks about things that could not have possibly happened yet. So this all must be future. So even though it was Jesus saying to his disciples, you will see these things, certainly it must be something else.

However, let's read the text. Verse 25. And there will be signs in the sun and the moon and in the stars and on the earth, distress of nations with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring, men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

A similar language in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is even stronger, talking about simply the failure of the sun, moon and.

Stars. Falling from the sky. It may not. Blackened. Yes, exactly. Darkened. And it may not.

Sound comforting, but it is comforting to know as Bible readers that such things have taken place many times over. In the Old Testament, when we read about the fall of Egypt and Edom and Assyria and Babylon and even the fall of Jerusalem and Judea in 586 BC, in every single one of those instances, the Old Testament uses language that says the sun failed, the moon failed, the stars failed, all sorts of bad things happened.

And it is a metaphor to describe power outage, power.

Down, things have failed. I mean you have to be able to, and if you have a reference Bible or even just a Bible app, you can look up those terms. The sun, moon and stars, the sun turning to blood, all of these things falling.

You can read about this Isaiah 12, Isaiah 14, these actual world empires that existed in history, and this is the language that God uses for the fall of these pagan nations. He has also used it of Israel, but Jesus is applying this language that was used for the fall of these empires on Jerusalem itself.

This is not the first time this has happened. The sun and moon and stars falling, apparently, has happened many times in history and it has always been associated with the fall.

Of a political power. That's correct. It reminds me of Joseph's dream when he said, I saw the sun, the moon and the stars bowing down, and his brothers took that to mean, oh authorities, that's authority figures, and this language.

Seems to be similar to that. And they knew that sun, moon and stars are good metaphors for governing authorities because that's the way God said it in Genesis 1, that they set seasons and times and they govern the day and the night.

Do they ever represent spiritual authorities as well? Yes, we see that. It's a very effective metaphor to talk about governing authorities and recognizing that any governing authority on earth is not to be understood only materialistically, but is always connected to spiritual forces.

Right, it's.

Not just straight politic. Never ever. Go ahead, please. I was going to ask, so.

These are metaphors. We want to believe the Bible, what the Bible has to say, it is true, but then the Bible is talking metaphorically in the past. Is there a reason why when we get to this, we need to take it literal?

Yes, we say it's true, but is there a reason we should shift it to start thinking it's talking about.

Literal sun, literal moon, literal stars? One thing about Jesus, how he uses the Bible, right? How does he teach the Bible? How does he speak the Bible? How does he refer to the Bible? Jesus is using biblical language to describe a judgment that was promised by God would come to pass.

So I think he's being very biblical in his language and so we should just track with how he's using the Bible to explain what's about to happen to those who would understand this language. They had this biblical language in their background as well.

So he's communicating clearly, all we have to do is interpret his words according to the Bible. So let the Bible interpret the Bible. It'd be the best course. Right, good. Another expression, another metaphor for judgment is clouds, that God would come in clouds.

There's a description of God coming in judgment in the book of Amos and he comes on the clouds and mountains melt under his approach and you know everything, you lose all sense of the other landscape, you can't see the stars anymore, the mountains are all gone, everything is topsy-turvy.

What a great way to express the chaos and confusion of judgment. And so throughout the Old Testament we have the language of clouds in connection with judgment. And so verse 27 of Luke 21 says, then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

In other words, who is in charge of all this judgment? Who is the one who brings this judgment upon Jerusalem and Judea? He who treads the winepress. He who treads the winepress. He is the king whom they crucified and he said to the high priest, you will see the Son of Man coming in glory.

He didn't say that lightly, he said you're going to see the sign that the Son of Man is in heaven, that indeed he reigns from the right hand of God. You're gonna see that.

When the judgment comes. Now there's a particular way of reading that verse because ordinarily how I see it referred to is, you will see the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. As in you will see some kind of sign, they're gonna see Jesus coming back, they're gonna see a sign in heaven.

Mm-hmm. And then that's not exactly how you said that. You said you will see the sign that the Son of Man is.

In heaven. Right. And in this case when you look at the original language you might be able to apply that really great meme, punctuation saves lives. Let's eat grandma? Yes, exactly. So in that case when you read the original, it matters where you put the punctuation when you translate it.

Let's just put it that way.

Real quick, because you mentioned the clouds and we talked about that him talking to the high priest and they said you will see the Son of Man. In Revelation once of and behold he is coming with the clouds and every eye will see him even they who pierced him.

Yes. Which seems to be a reference to.

Those that crucified him. So is Jesus really saying that there's this great judgment, power change kind of judgment, in which Jerusalem and the temple are being destroyed and we're to think of this destruction in such great terms that it accords with the destruction of empires of old where sun moon and stars fail and God comes in clouds.

Well what does he say? Well verse 29, then he spoke to them a parable look at the fig tree and all the trees when they are already budding you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near so also when you see these things happening know that the kingdom of God is near.

Now again Bible believing Jesus loving Christians when you begin to see chaos in the world you may take this passage and appropriate it for yourself and say oh things are all bad right now but the worse they get the more clear it is to me that everything is about to get real good real fast.

Okay but who is Jesus talking to? Those who are observing all these things with their own eyes in their own time. To emphasize that verse 32 Jesus says assuredly I say to you this generation and it's very clear in the original it means this generation.

He's talking about the people who are all around him will by no means pass away. Generation in the Bible about 40 years. This generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will by no means.

Pass away. So I mean this word this word generation you look at it the cross reference in Matthew it's it's Ginnea. It is the same word that's used Matthew 1 14 generations 14 generations 14 generations.

It's that word it's not race which would be Ginos. It's it's a period of time it's a and it's a. It's a word that was used over and over in that book and you have no reason to think that it would be changing definitions.

I like that you were using or that you.

Kind of prefaced that a lot of people see these things in the world and they they use them as confirmations for their faith or vindications for their faith. Absolutely. Is this not exactly what he's telling them that it these things being fulfilled are going to be vindications of their faith they're going to be.

Confirmations of their faith. Yeah he is indication that he is exactly who he said he was gonna do. He's talking to the to the Jews that he was judging as well.

Exactly so to those who might read this differently that's exactly what this was meant for but in a different reading we would say. Yeah he's pastoring them because he knows this is going to be a very difficult time for them and he he does not want them to waver when all these things are going they're gonna be very disturbed and upset.

He wants him to have confidence that this is exactly the way it's supposed to happen. All right now brother what about verse 35 what does that mean about the whole earth now surely surely what you're talking about happened to the land in your in your way of talking about it what about the idea that this is supposed to happen to the whole earth those who will be overtaken in it.

Mm-hmm yeah so the term the word the word in the original for earth can be translated either land or earth and it depends upon the context and depends upon the the translators expectations of what the text means.

So when earlier we read that Jesus says you know if you want to escape this great tribulation then leave Judea I think that gives us the con you know if you leave Judea and go to the mountains you're fine I think that clarifies what he means by the use of that term.

Additionally it's good to remember that the impact of the Roman Jewish Civil War did in fact impact all of the known earth at that time in the same way that it would be talked about at the beginning of the Gospel of Luke wherein Caesar decided to tax the whole earth did not include the Chinese or Native Americans exactly they didn't get taxed by but that expression does refer to the whole Roman Empire and that civil war between the Jews and the Romans did impact the entire Empire in a very negative way.

Well yeah I mean the term.

World I mean you have Cosmos and Oikomenai I mean so it's a different you know different terms you know Oikomenai was was the known world at the.

Time. So this teaching of Jesus in which he is declaring the end of the Old Covenant okay if there's no temple no Jerusalem no priests no sacrifices the whole thing comes to a shuddering end according to the curses that that we read in Deuteronomy which by the way conclude by saying God saying to Israel I'm going to send you back as slaves to Egypt but no one will want to buy you.

That actually happened in AD 70 when Jews were sent to Egypt as slaves after being conquered by the Roman Empire and they were sent down to Egypt to be sold as slaves and nobody wanted to buy them because the economy was wrecked in the world and there was too many slaves on the market.

So God's Word is true he always keeps his promises. But when Jesus teaches this and talks about the judgment on the stewards of the Old Covenant who had broken the Old Covenant the end of the Old Covenant as Hebrew says it's obsolete and ready to pass away.

Jesus had many parables in which he said the unfaithful son would be judged but the other son would be honored. The wicked tenants of the vineyard would be destroyed. Kingdom given to another group. Those who were originally invited to the wedding feast would be destroyed and their city burned with fire.

And then others from the highways and hedges would be brought in to the kingdom. Jesus had many many parables to explain this before he got to his specifics in Luke 21 or Matthew 24 or Mark 13. But that teaching of Jesus resonated so strongly with his followers.

After all he said he said you're not going to finish going through this to the cities of of Israel before the Son of Man comes. And he didn't mean come to end all of history with a resurrection. He meant come in judgment against Jerusalem again.

That is the metaphor throughout scripture. When God comes very often that means he comes in judgment. So that expectation of the end of the age the end of the Old Covenant this massive judgment that was about to take place hung like a cloud over everything that the early church said and did.

What kind of expressions do we find in the New Testament where the Apostles were the early followers of Christ were aware of this. How did they talk. How did they write. How do the how do they live. They use the term end times they did the last days final hour.

Yes us upon whom the end of the ages has come brethren beloved it is the last hour. These are the last days. Is this I'm.

Thinking of acts when they were selling their land mm-hmm like that would enable them to leave Judea I think the Ananias and Sapphira and you've got different people selling their land that would explain why they were doing.

There's.

No need to hold on to land in Judea and Jerusalem when you know what's gonna happen there. For sure. But you do have like language for instance Paul advising and saying you know hey look because of the present distress maybe you ought not get married maybe it might be nice.

Just everyone's kind of you know. Stick with what you're doing get well get get done what we can get done because of the present distress coming upon us because of all these things all these things are about to happen.

But if you do get married you're not sinning but just know it's gonna be more difficult. You know that language is near at hand. Yes and.

Then John opening Revelation says I'm a fellow partaker of the great tribulation.

That's right so all throughout the New Testament we are given this expectation. The riders are all on the edge of their seats. The big thing is about to happen and they're calling it the end times the last days the last hour.

What are they talking about. They believe Jesus. They believed their Lord Jesus of Nazareth who is the Christ the Son of the Living God who said all these things will take place within this generation and they believed him.

Now many liberal scholars who criticize the Bible point at Jesus's words and the plain meaning of what he said and the plain meaning of the Apostles who believe what he said and they said the same thing.

And they point at those things and say look by your own standards Oh Christian Jesus is a false prophet. By your own standards.

The Apostles got it wrong now what is some of that wrapped around the idea of coming. Because when we talk about you will not go through before the Son of Man returns. So are you saying it's done it's all over he's already come.

What's.

Left right. So. So what we have in the scripture is anticipation of the end of the Old Covenant which was near. And the promise that Jesus Christ would reign at the right hand of the Father to all of his enemies are.

Places a footstool for his feet. And then he would return and raise the dead. Promises of John chapter five. Promises of Matthew 25. The promises of Romans 8. That he would raise the dead and that the righteous and the unrighteous would be sorted before him like goats on the left and sheep on the right.

And that all men will be judged and all things will be settled. And guess what. True to form a judgment involves clouds and trumpets and all kinds of imagery that other judgments throughout scripture also have.

But just because we have imagery of judgment doesn't mean it's only talking about one event ever. We have to read the context to see what.

It is that is being talked about so you could say there there had been multiple appearances of judgment in the Old Testament on Jerusalem in 70 AD and I know a lot of people use the term second coming but maybe more clear be we're.

Still awaiting his final coming. So the writers of the New Testament were awaiting the the judgment coming of Christ upon Jerusalem to end at the Old Covenant as he said would would occur. They were also anticipating at the same time the fact that he would return to raise the dead.

Those two events were not the same thing right. And I think a lot of people can get confused about that by not letting the context speak for itself about which one. That is because most.

People who would read you know this Luke 21 and Mark 13 and Matthew 24 said this is referring to the second and final coming of Christ where he returns bodily as says the Book of Acts says that he ascended bodily he returns bodily raises the dead.

They conflate. These don't allow the context as they know this is a local judgment for a specific purpose that ends the temple system and the Jewish nation as a whole. Put an end to the Old Covenant so that the kingdom which is spiritual it starts to grow throughout the entire world.

And there is an end point to that which is clearly described in first Corinthians 15 where he puts all of his enemies under his feet and at that point raised the dead judges the world enters the eternal state.

That is a very different event than a local judgment which destroyed a city and entered a temple system and ended a covenant relationship. You know a true divorce. Then you know the entire world being raised from the dead and the book.

You know the Book of Life opened up and you have your your resurrections. That's a.

Very different event. Yes. So I think one of the reasons why when you read Matthew 24 Mark 13 Luke 21 Luke 17 and so on many of the reasons why Christians look at that and they say oh well that has to be the end of everything is that they they read about the sun moon and stars failing and all sorts of disastrous happening and this is seemingly global scale.

But the language there is the same language we have throughout the Bible to describe. Yeah local judgment local.

Judgments. Yeah. When I walk outside the moon and stars are still there. Yes but.

The local judgments all together as you read them and as they become more and more important throughout the history of the scripture each one of those anticipates the fact that there will come a day like every judgment.

Every judgment is a sifting of people into two categories. And that anticipates the last judgment the great day of judgment which is a sifting of everything into two categories. And indeed the language of judgment that has been expressed time and again throughout the history that the Bible records.

That same language of judgment is used to describe the final return of Christ. And so that same language is there. So you can understand why. It might be a little confusing and why these things can get conflated.

Sure. But when Jesus says all these things will happen within this generation he's not being confusing. He is clarifying. I'm talking about a local temporal judgment. And when he talks about other things when he talks about the last day of judgment he talks about it in different terms.

And our goal as Christians is to rightly understand the scriptures and try to be as clear as Christ is about which is which. So you can understand how people are going to hear the news about Israel. And be concerned these are people.

Today yes. The news in Israel. Today yes. And they read their Bible and they see.

Phrases in the scripture that say hey when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies when when there's all these wars going on you get ready because here's the end. Or you read in the scriptures in the epistles that the Apostles are writing and they're saying oh we have such difficult times right now and and evil is so thick and there are false teachers everywhere and these are the end times these are the last days and we want to immediately accommodate those.

Scriptures to our personal experiences. What's happening to me right now. Cults have used this in the last that she said in the last last hundred years. Well it's kind of close to home. Waco's and Branch Davidians use these this very language.

The we're the new Jerusalem we're being surrounded by armies. The end is coming.

Yeah and so we see that we need to be careful that we don't make the Bible about us when the Bible is about Christ and let's pay attention to what he was saying in his own time and what he promises about our future and make sure that we're trying to clarify the differences.

So we do have a hope that Christ will return. We do have a hope that he reigns. We do have a hope that he wins and we win with him. We do have a hope that we will be caught up together with him in the air and that we will always be with him.