Can Your Works Earn You Salvation?

Apologia Utah

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Hey, can I give you a gospel check? Yeah, are you LDS? Yeah, you have time to talk about your religion?

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So, uh, are you just growing up in Utah? Nice, you got an accent.

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Where are you from? I'm from Mexico. Mexico? Wow. Dax. I'm Jared.

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Jared. Nice to meet you. Wow. So what brought you to Utah? Beautiful right looking on the mountains.

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Yeah, that's so crazy. I don't know we'd like It's I think I find it kind of funny like when

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I figure out people come specifically to Utah out of all the places Yeah, it's shocking almost So what party

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Mexico? Mexico City, okay. I've been to Mexico City like once so yeah, just flew out of there and then

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I was a vacation Yep, vacation though. Yeah. Well, yeah, so we're Christians from a local church and We're we're out here preaching to primarily

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Mormons, but also those who aren't Mormon Just they don't have the gospel. And so we're out here that track that piece of paper you have in your hand

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Well, it's actually for Mormons and then we're out here preaching them We are convinced by scripture that they have a different Jesus and a different gospel that can't save and yeah

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That's basically, you know, we don't hide anything from you. That's that's why we're here You are you Mormon?

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Yeah. Oh, okay. So when did you become would you just grow up Mormon or yeah? Wow Okay, so you would be acquainted with the scriptures like like so you believe you'll become a god

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Did you know did you know that in the Bible? It actually says in Isaiah 43 10 before me there were no gods for him.

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Neither shall it be after me. Yeah So, how do you deal with that as a missionary? He preaches that you can become a god one day

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God says that you won't become one Well, I think my mission changed my mind completely because I think before my mission

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I was a Mormon only for my parents They told me like you have to go to church How'd you get that testimony because When he started to listen about Jesus Christ he

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He stopped drinking alcohol He tried to be a better man because his wife he

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His wife So in that moment he changed so I realized in that moment this book was true so My question is right

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Joseph taught How are how are you saved can you tell me how you're saved what what gospel essentially do you preach

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Do you preach like what gospel do you hold fast to so for example Joseph taught in 2nd

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Nephi 25 23. He says, you know You're saved by grace after all you can do.

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Yeah And then again in Moroni 1032, you know, if you love God with all your love

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Heart and strength then his grace is sufficient for you, right? So Joseph taught that you can receive

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God's grace by doing certain ordinances of the gospel To receive that grace, right?

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So would you believe that? Yeah. Okay. So then in the Bible, right? Paul writes in Ephesians 2 8 through 9.

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He says you are saved by grace Through faith. This is not of your own works lest any man compose.

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This is a gift from God Yeah, so how would you reconcile that as an LDS? Member You can learn

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Some special things in your life if you read these things you can know that through your faith

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So Try to be like you describe, okay.

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Okay. So by experience you said yeah Okay. So what do you what would you say about your experience if it contradicts the

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Word of God? Because on your mission you preach that you can become a god one day, but God in his word says before me there were no gods for him, neither shall there be after me.

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So you're preaching by your experience you said, you know on your mission and stuff, you're actually teaching something that's against the Bible. So if you're going to say

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I came to know this church is true by experience, what would you say about a Muslim, about the Quran, you know they believe, you know they actually, a part of their doctrine or who they believe about God and how to get to heaven, they believe actually if you blow yourself up, it's called jihad, if you blow yourself up, that's the quickest way to be with Allah, their

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God, the quickest way to go to heaven, have the 69 virtues and everything. They actually believe you have to blow yourself up.

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So that's just their experience. So that's just their experience. So they come to that conclusion, imagine I was a Muslim and I said to you

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Jerry, I believe that I should blow people up and it's okay to blow people up because it's what

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I feel to be true. It's my experience. How would you say, no, you're wrong, you're wrong about that, because I mean,

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Jerry, you think about it, you're basing it off experiences, what you've seen. Yeah, I think for example in my mission

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I had some investigators and he was Jehovah's Witnesses, is that correct?

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Jehovah's Witnesses, yeah. JW, yeah. So when I was teaching to him, we tried once to pray in his house and he asked specifically like if this is a real church, about the

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Book of Mormon, and he was a really hard person because he never wanted to change his mind, but in that moment, in that prayer, he started to cry while he was praying and when he finished his prayer, he said like,

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I don't know why just I know this is a true church. So we asked him, how do you feel,

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I feel happiness, I feel like. So are you relying on truth coming from prayer, coming from feeling, that's how you get your truth?

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Yeah. Okay, so what would you say then, because God in his word says that in Jeremiah, or Jeremiah 19, 7, 17, 9, he says the heart is desperately wicked, desperately sick, who can know it?

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You know, it's wicked, who can know it? So if you're trusting what God calls wicked, you're feeling, he says not to trust it, don't follow it.

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You're disobeying. Yeah, you're disobeying God directly by saying that you just gotta follow your heart and feel what

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God says to you. What would you say to that? I think if, like in,

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I don't know the name in English, James 1, 3, that we ask for wisdom, so I think all people can receive an answer if he really wants to receive, but I think as well we have to be allowed to obey the answers, so it doesn't matter if we receive answers but we don't want to act.

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So I think all people can receive answers, but... So, well, did you know that actually Paul is describing that, yes, now we're not denying that, the

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Bible does say that, and that is, yes, amen, praise God. But actually what your church teaches is something against God.

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So in Deuteronomy 13 and 18, it actually attests of a prophet, it says if someone comes to you, doing many miracles, signs, and wonders, but leads you after other gods, gods which you have not known, do not be afraid of him, do not listen to him.

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And it also says, for attest of a prophet, if he comes in the name of Yahweh, but he says one false prophecy, he says one thing and it does not come to pass, he is a liar, do not listen to him.

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And so Joseph Smith actually, we see that he's actually done the exact same thing. He's actually led men after different gods.

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And numerous of false prophecies. He says, we have ought to believe that God has been God for all eternity,

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I will refute that idea, you must see that you must become gods yourselves. But God says in Isaiah 43, 10, before me there were no gods formed, now there shall there be after me.

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So Jerry, we'd ask you, would you rather believe your feelings about the church, or what God actually says in His word?

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Well, I think like, when I was in the mission, I received a really answer about this gospel.

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So even if, like other people try to convince me about other things,

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I'm sure about my feelings, I'm sure about the things that I believe, so I think it depends on the person.

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Because I know there is a lot of religions, so I think every person can believe in the things that they want.

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Yeah, we're not denying that everyone has a belief in something. We're just saying that if you don't have Christ, the true Christ, and the true gospel, you're wrong, you're lying.

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Actually, the Mormon church, that's the reason why we're here, is we love you. We're not here to bash your faith, we're here to put your faith in the right place, where it belongs.

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We're not here to condemn anyone, we're here to bring them to the truth of Christ, the true gospel, who

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God truly is, what the Bible says who God is. That's why we're here, that's why we're exposing the church.

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I was Mormon as well. I was born and raised Mormon. Did baptisms at 8 years old. Used to do baptisms for the dead around 12, when

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I was 12 years old. I started doing baptisms for the dead. I used to go every Friday with my mom. But in reality, when

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I did research on who God was, according to the Scriptures, according to the Bible, Joseph Smith is lying.

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You can't become a God one day, Jerry. And no matter what your feelings say, the Word of God, you're saying something that goes against God's Word.

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He says, before me there were no gods formed, neither shall there be after me. There's one God. You can't become one.

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And it also says in Galatians chapter 1, whoever comes preaching a different gospel than the one that we've preached to you, whether it be another apostle or an angel from heaven, if he preaches a different gospel than the one in the

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Bible, he says he's accursed, under the wrath of God. And the things that we just really want you to understand is who

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Jesus is. So, who do you think Jesus is? Who would you say Christ is? I think

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Jesus is, like the Scriptures say, like our Savior, our Master.

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He was a perfect example about obedience, and yeah,

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I think He was the only one who was perfect in this world. Do you believe that He was Lucifer's brother?

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Yeah, because I know before this life, we were with God. Did you know,

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Jerry, actually it says in John chapter 1, this is one of the gospels, you can read it, it's in the Bible, John chapter 1 actually says in the first verse, actually, the beginning was the

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Word, the Word is with God, the Word was God, and the same was in the beginning with God.

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There's not a single thing that was made that was not made by Him. And so the Bible actually says in John chapter 1 that Jesus created all things.

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He's the Word of God. It says in verse 14, and the Word of God became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld

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His glory. Okay now, so think of what you're saying. You're saying that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer. Lucifer is a creation.

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If Jesus is the brother of Lucifer, He is therefore a creation. But the Bible actually says He's the creator. He is

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God in human flesh. He created all things. So how would you reconcile that? How would you believe that?

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Because you are a missionary, you know what I'm talking, you know what we're talking about. How would you say, how would you still say that I'm following the true

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Christ if Scripture is saying one thing and the church is teaching a different thing?

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Well, for example, there is a lot of things like in the Book of Mormon speaks about horses.

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A lot of people say like there wasn't horses, there weren't horses here in the Americas in that moment.

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So I think it's things that you have to believe because right now we are not going to be able to know all things.

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So we have to, like the Scripture says, we have to live by faith.

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Because I know that faith is something important, but we can have answers about prayer.

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So I pray in my mission, in my house, like in every single moment

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I receive the same answer. So what would you say then, you're saying that you receive truth from praying, right, and that you've prayed about it.

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I have a date right now, like in May, a night. Okay. Okay, can

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I leave you with one last thing, right? Yeah. You say that you pray for truth, right? So what would you say then, I'm going to give you an analogy. For someone that walks up to you, and it's

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Jerry, right? Yeah. Okay, and they say, Jerry, you know, I prayed. I received from God truth saying that He wants me to have sex with minors, right?

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I'm 18 or 30 or whatever. And he says, you know, God's revealed to me that it's okay. He's okay with me having sex with minors.

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What would you say to them? Do you know how to test those prophets?

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What? Do you know that scripture actually provides you a way that you can test those prophets, you know that? Yeah. And the Bible actually says when you test

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Joseph Smith according to what the Bible says to test a prophet, they're not prophets. Joseph Smith leads you after another

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God. He says that you can become one. That's a different God. He says that God's a man. God's not a man according to scripture.

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That's a different God. And they believe that Jesus is the brother of saints. That's a different Jesus. That's a

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Jesus that cannot save. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 11 -4, Many will come to you preaching different cries and having different spirits than the ones you receive.

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And they will also be saying the exact same thing. I do good works. I do this. People cry at Muslim mosques all the time.

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But that doesn't make it true. Does that make sense? I could cry about killing Nazis.

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Or I could cry about killing Jews all day. But does that make what

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I'm doing right? Does it make it true? It doesn't, doesn't it? Before you go, we don't want to hold you too long.

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But we want to leave you with this. We want to leave you with the gospel of what Christ is. The Bible actually says that Christ is

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God in human flesh. In John chapter 1, I quoted it to you. He is the eternal Son of God.

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God from God. The eternal God of heaven and earth. And He became flesh. He took on flesh.

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And He lived perfect obedience. He was tempted just as we were, but He never sinned. He was perfect. And then on the cross,

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He dies. He suffers the wrath of God for sinners. And so instead of us suffering the wrath that we deserve.

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Because we're sinners. We deserve hell. No man is good. I know not one. That's what the Bible says. Jesus actually pays for guilty men.

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He takes the responsibility for their sins. Instead of us taking the responsibility. And that was out of grace.

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And He rises again on the third day. The Bible says, for those who believe in Him, they shall have eternal life. For those who repent and believe.

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For by grace are you saved through faith, not by works. And we call you out of faith. We call you to faith and repentance.

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From this church. These false gods they're teaching. They're leading you after a different God. A God who can't save you.

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A God who, frankly, isn't real. So, you know, test. The Bible says, hold fast to the things that are true.

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Test all things. Hold fast to what is true. So hold fast to the Bible. God claims that the

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Bible is true. So hold to the Bible. Don't hold to what the LDS church has taught you. Read your

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Bible. See what God has to say. God says that Jesus has not been created.

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He's created all things. Moments and teaches differently. So read your Bible. That's the last thing we'll leave you with, Jerry. I hope that you, you know.

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That you will test your church by the Word of God. Amen. We love you, Jerry. We don't want to hold you too long. We hope we didn't.

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It was nice to meet you. Thank you for talking to us. Nice to meet you, Jerry. And if you have any questions. And, like, you think we're wrong on some things.