October 18, 2018 Show with Dr. Richard C. Gamble on “The Whole Counsel of God”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 18th day of October 2018.

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Don't forget folks to mark your calendar for tomorrow.

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We are going to have as a guest tomorrow, Alonzo Rachel. He is one of the lead actors of the new movie

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Gosnell, the movie about the most notorious serial killer in the history of the

01:45

United States, an abortionist who even went beyond the limits that our leftist and pro -choice neighbors,

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I hate to say the word friends, but those in our community and in politics who are pro -abortion even think that Mr.

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Gosnell or Dr. Gosnell went over the limit, although they are logically inconsistent with that view, they should realize what they are supporting is equally horrific.

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But make sure you tune in tomorrow to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to hear our interview with Alonzo Rachel, lead actor in the movie

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Gosnell. But today we have with us for the very first time

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Dr. Richard C. Gamble. He received his PhD from the

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Universitat Basel or Basel. He is professor currently of systematic theology at the

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Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, having previously taught at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida, Calvin College and Seminary, and Westminster Theological Seminary and today we are discussing the topic, the whole counsel of God.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Richard C.

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Gamble. Thank you, Chris, for inviting me to be with you today. And by the way, for our listeners' sake, if you hear me or when you hear me call our guest

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Rick, I am not being disrespectful to him. He actually requested that I call him Rick. So don't think that I am presuming upon that familiarity with our guest today.

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The Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary is no stranger to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listening audience because we have had quite a number of guests who have some connection with that institution, whether they be on the faculty or having graduated from there.

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But for the sake of our listeners who may be discovering that institution for the very first time ever,

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Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary, why don't you tell our listeners about that? We're a fairly old seminary, over 200 years old, and we've been located in Pittsburgh for quite a while.

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And we're the smallest, I think, accredited seminary in the

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United States. In terms of student numbers, we're a small seminary, but we've got a long and rich history and particularly serving the small

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Presbyterian denomination called the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America. Yes, and a couple of the unique distinctives of the

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Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America is that they are exclusive psalm singers and also exclusively sing acapella without musical instrumentation.

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That's correct. And as I told my guest yesterday, who is a graduate of RPTS, Mitch Tepper, who is the new missionary for Christian Witness to Israel, one of the most well -known of the

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Reformed outreaches to the Jews globally, I told him that I have become actually convinced on the acapella side of that, even though I do not use that as a test of fellowship by any stretch of the imagination.

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I'm not an exclusive psalmist, but my friend John Price of Grace Baptist Church in Rochester, New York, wrote a phenomenal book called

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Old Light on New Worship, where he was defending the strictly acapella position in regard to worship.

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And he actually really sealed that view tightly shut in my case.

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Well, should I say that in regard to me adopting it, I have come to agree with him.

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But that's not what we're talking about today. Before we go to our theme today, the whole counsel of God, I would like you to, as we do normally with our first -time guests,

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I would like you to give an abbreviation, a summary of your personal salvation testimony, what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and what providential circumstances our

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Sovereign Lord rose up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. Well, thank you for that,

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Chris. I'm always glad to share my testimony. I was raised in a Christian home and went to church all of my life, but when

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I was about 16 years old, the claims of Christ were pressed home to me, and from that time on,

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I was very serious about my Christianity and actually felt called to the gospel ministry from that time, and by God's grace have been walking with him since that time.

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So the Lord has kept me close to him for a really long time, and I'm thankful for that Christian upbringing that I was able to enjoy before really coming to that personal conviction that we all need to come to making our calling and election sure.

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And that's briefly. I can speak longer, but that's briefly. What was the theological makeup of that Christian home?

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Was your family Reformed, or was that something that you came to discover and embrace later on?

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Yeah, my family background was mixed. My grandfather was a Presbyterian elder, but I was raised

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Methodist and actually heard the gospel through a

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Lutheran evangelist. Wow, so that is a mixture there. It is a mixed background, yeah.

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So I'm assuming it was an evangelical Methodist church? It was, yep. Great.

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In fact, remember, this is over 50 years ago, so things were a little bit different then.

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Yes, and even today, I have met and have interviewed people not only in some of the smaller

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Methodist denominations, but even in the mainline United Methodist Church, there is a remnant of faithful Bible -believing

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Christians who still believe in the gospel, who still believe in the inerrancy of the scriptures, and I have interviewed some of them on this program.

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The Lord is always gracious, isn't he? Amen. So how did you know that the

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Lord had a call upon your life to enter into the teaching field, and specifically, how did you become a professor at all of these different well -known institutions who are known for Reformed theology, their adherence to it, and of course, eventually where you are now, the

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Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary of Pittsburgh? You know, so when

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I felt the claims of Christ as a teenager, I also felt a passion for evangelism and apologetics, and had been philosophically minded even as a teenager.

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And when I went to college as a philosophy major, thinking about, again, evangelism and apologetics, and from my senior years in college, my older years, my junior and senior year, felt a certain of an inner call to gospel ministry, and just because of the way the

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Lord put me together, it seemed wise to pursue a PhD as well.

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So that had been in the plans through college and through seminary, and so I went to get a

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PhD right after seminary, thinking that maybe the Lord had called me to be a teacher.

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But I'd also wrestled with missions, being a missionary, so the

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Lord brought me into teaching right out of my PhD from Switzerland. So that's what

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I've been doing since that time. Praise God, and just so our listeners have this on hand to research the

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Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary after the program, or during a commercial break or something, and I plan to repeat this later, but the website is rpts .edu,

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rpts .edu. It's Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Well, this is quite an undertaking.

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It almost seems comically arrogant to say we are going to discuss today the whole

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Council of God. Yes, we're going to fit that into a two -hour program, and you fit it into, so far, two volumes of books.

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The whole Council of God we're going to be covering. Obviously, we're only going to scratch the surface of the whole

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Council of God. We can have at least two -thirds of the Council of God. Is the third volume out yet?

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No, no. I'll need another year, probably, to write the manuscript. Now, what made you think that this is something

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I've got to tackle, such a huge topic, such a broad topic, the whole

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Council of God? Well, the story goes back to my first teaching post.

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I started in 1980 -81 at Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia, and at that time we were engaged in theological controversy concerning very important topics, the nature of justification and the relationship between justification and sanctification.

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Is this the Norman Shepard controversy? That's right. So, besides having to teach for the first time, and just beginning my teaching career,

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I had to struggle with seeing this controversy from different angles.

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There were good people who took one side and good people who took another side, and so we had to, as a faculty, wrestle with the relationship between Scripture and philosophical systems that we used to impose on Scripture, the

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Puritans versus other exegetical methods and theological methods.

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So already in the 1980s, I was wrestling internally with the best way to present systematic theology to God's people, because I was teaching then historical theology.

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So I started with learning from the ancient church through the medieval church and Reformation and post -Reformation that the different ways that theology was constructed with both the strengths and the weaknesses to the different presentations, and began talking with colleagues about the best way to do it.

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And also at that time, the seal for Westminster Seminary has a pulpit with an open

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Bible and a sword, and the motto is in Greek, and it's the whole counsel of God.

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So that's really how I kind of stole the title from that motto. Yes. Would you say that from what you have heard of preaching, whether it be on television, radio, or what you have seen in print by the broader spectrum of very popular modern evangelicals, that this is a very vital element that is missing from much of what modern evangelicalism is preaching about and writing about, and that is the whole counsel of God.

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They seem to isolate certain things that they enjoy that makes them feel good, that they believe makes their audience or their readers feel good and perhaps will help draw numerically greater numbers to follow them, but they are not really preaching and teaching and writing about the whole counsel of God.

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Yes, Chris, I think you have your finger on it. I think that it's much easier to preach those doctrines that fit, say, our denomination well or our personality well or our congregation well.

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Some doctrines are more popular than other doctrines. Some doctrines are easy to understand than other doctrines.

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Some doctrines are like predestination. Calvin suggested that the new seminarian not preach on predestination for at least his first three years in pastoral ministry, because when done well it's a great comfort, but when not done well it can even harm the sheep.

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So I think you're right. The whole counsel of God is what Paul wanted to present to the

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Ephesian elders, and that's where the title comes from, Acts 20, 27, and that's what all of us who are preachers are called to do, is to give the whole scriptures and not just part of the scriptures.

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And furthermore, as we think of it, not so much contemporary preaching but the history of heresy, it's when, say, one attribute of God is overemphasized, contrary to other ones, that we get into different major theological errors.

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So you're right. We preachers have to open up the whole counsel of God to God's people.

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Amen. And that is why both those who are

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Calvinists and those who are Arminian and anything in between, or even outside those perimeters, they always have to remind themselves that they have to always keep in mind that the entirety of the inerrant word of God is true.

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Not that it's applied all equally in the New Covenant and so on, there are obviously distinctions on some issues, but even the

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Calvinist can go into dangerously heretical hyper -Calvinism if he is not taking in consideration the whole counsel of God.

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And of course, our Arminian brethren, we believe many of them are our true brothers in Christ, but they, we would say, right at the get -go, they're not recognizing the whole counsel of God.

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That's right. So it's a difficult balance, but it's one that I think we're commanded to try.

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You know, we all fail, but we're commanded to do our best to present all of Scripture to all

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God's people. Well, can you tell us at least what you have compiled in the first two volumes?

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By the way, this is a massive two -volume set. The combined pages of these two volumes is over a thousand pages, and I do want to give our listeners the good news that CVBBS .com,

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, is offering this. It's actually 1 ,800 pages, the two -volume set, hardback, which combined is 1 ,800 pages.

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It retails for $109 .98, and CVBBS .com has it less expensive than anywhere right now.

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They are selling the set of two volumes for $49 .99. CVBBS .com,

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CVBBS .com. Just wanted to make sure you folks knew that. But if you could, tell us what you have started to include in the series that you are in the process.

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You're still continuing to write, but you have the two volumes already completed in print. What have you included in regard to the whole

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Council of God? And then we could go into some more of those specific areas of the whole

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Council of God in more detail, but to give our listeners a broad outline of what you include in those two volumes.

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And then, of course, what you plan on including in future volumes. I don't know how many volumes you plan on.

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I know that there's at least a third in the works, but if you could. Sure, sure. Well, let me do the first two volumes.

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There are three planned. Volume 1 is an Old Testament theology, and volume 2 is a

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New Testament theology. So in both, what

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I try to do, let's start with volume 1, I open it up with the

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Pentateuch and try to explain who Moses is when he wrote the

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Pentateuch. I go into text -critical questions and try to show the theology of, say, beginning with Genesis and then working through the theology of the doctrine of God in Genesis, and the doctrine of humanity in Genesis, the development of the

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Church, salvation in Genesis, and I move through the other four books.

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And I do the same as we move from Genesis to Malachi. I go through the prophetic writings, the historical writings, and I try to the best of my ability to have the scriptures themselves elaborate the scriptures.

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In other words, show how God himself develops his own theology through the pages of special revelation.

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I use God's history as the structuring or the framework for us to see how the various doctrines have expanded.

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And the analogy of the image that I like to think about is, you have an acorn, which in a hundred years, with dirt and light, becomes a mighty oak.

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And you start in Genesis, which is the acorn, and it grows into the book of Revelation, the final consummate revelation of God to humanity.

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So volume 1 is simply an Old Testament theology. It's called God's Mighty Acts in the

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Old Testament. How God calls a church to himself, and how

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Israel saw God, and so we talk about the development of all the doctrines in volume 1.

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Then I do the same thing in volume 2, beginning with the Gospels. I introduce the

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Synoptics and who Matthew and Mark are as men, their unique theology.

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And one thing that I don't do is, the liberals will say, you've got Mark's theology, which is, you know, you can't square it with Matthew or Luke, and of course

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I hold to inerrancy. So I show both the differences and the overlap, as God is showing us through four

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Gospels, a beautiful picture of the life and the history of our

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Lord Jesus Christ, and how the church developed. Then we take from the

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Gospels, we look at, again, the same method as in volume 1. How is the doctrine of God revealed?

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How is the doctrine of humanity revealed? The doctrine of the Church? And I try to structure it flowing out of the text itself, so it has an exegetical base.

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Then I go through the other New Testament writers, ending in the book of Revelation by John, and the theology that's found there.

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So volume 2 did take me a little bit, a few more pages than volume 1, but that's what

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I try to do in the first two volumes. I hope that was clear. Yes. Let me give our listeners our email address, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Dr.

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Richard C. Gamble on the whole Council of God. That leaves your spectrum of questions pretty wide, open pretty wide, because if you're talking about the whole

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Council of God, it'd be pretty hard to miss the mark on asking a question that is relevant to the topic.

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That's true. But if you'd like to ask a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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We're don't go away. We'll be right back with Rick Gamble right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. But we are now back with Dr. Richard C. Gamble. He is the

35:31

Professor of Systematic Theology at Reform Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We are discussing

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The Whole Council of God. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. If you have a question, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

35:48

If you have a question, please give us your first name, city, and state and country of residence if you live outside the

35:54

USA. We have a question from Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, and she says it seems to be very dangerous to either exclude too much of God's Word from the

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Old Covenant in New Covenant Christianity or to include too much of it in New Covenant Christianity.

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It seems that you can cross the border over into licentiousness on the one hand and antinomianism or on the other end of the spectrum you can become a

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Judaizer or worse by crossing over into the other end of including too much of what

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God has commanded in the Old Testament. How do we make sure that we are not crossing over to either of those heretical opposite ends?

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Wow, that's a wonderful question and both volume one and volume two deal extensively with that question.

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I think that Susan Margaret's question is one of the most important ones for us as evangelicals.

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It's one of the areas where good brothers agree to disagree on a number of fronts and of course we want to keep from heresy and error, but we get into serious discussions and difficulties concerning continuity and discontinuity between the two

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Testaments. I think that's one of the divides we have, say, between those who hold the Believer's Baptism and those who hold the

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Infant Baptism, issues of worship. So there are many, many theological and practical issues that are involved in Susan Margaret's question.

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So I almost want to break it into parts to try to deal with various aspects.

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Yes, you can answer. You can take as long as you want to to answer, so you can break it up into as many parts as you desire.

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Okay, so the issue is the continuity and discontinuity.

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So if we go to the book of Hebrews, we've got the first four verses of Hebrews 1, and there we see a

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New Testament presentation concerning continuity and discontinuity. So the author of Hebrews says, in times past,

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God has shown this to our fathers, but now in these last days, he's shown us through Jesus Christ.

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So there's continuity and there's discontinuity.

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So we don't want to fall into the error of the ancient Church Father Martian, who basically threw out the

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Old Testament. Clearly, the God of the Old Testament is the same

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God as the God of the New Testament. And it seems that Andy Stanley wants us to do that very thing as well.

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Yeah, it's an age -old problem, isn't it? So to understand

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Jesus Christ, if we look at it this way, you know, I want to present the Gospel to someone, but to understand

39:22

Jesus Christ, we have to see him as in his

39:28

Old Testament context. We talk about Christ as prophet, priest, and king, that standard language in Church documents.

39:37

Well, to understand him as prophet, that's an Old Testament prophet. To understand him as priest, it's

39:43

Old Testament priest. And the king is modeled on King David, so even to make a simple

39:49

Gospel presentation requires quite a bit of knowledge of the Old Testament. So her question is one that has been one that I've been wrestling with for many years, and that's the issue of continuity and discontinuity.

40:06

And good friends, colleagues, and students, we've been using, you know, not trying to be funny, but using iron sharpening iron.

40:17

I've spent many, many good hours discussing, debating with fellow believers where the lines of continuity are and where they aren't.

40:27

And the best answer to the question is, look at the books. I really do spend a lot of time analyzing those questions.

40:36

So how's that short enough for a very beautiful and complex question?

40:41

Yeah, that's an excellent question. And of course, not all of those disagreements are collegial.

40:50

They're not all amongst brethren in Christ who we can agree to disagree that some of these issues actually open up a chasm between eternal life and eternal condemnation.

41:02

I mean, you could be in a cult. Of course, people who are in cults don't recognize that they're in cults.

41:13

But there could be a line that is crossed that is so significant and so damning, such as adding works to faith in order to be justified before God.

41:27

The Roman Catholic Church, I would include in that, not that it is because they are dragging too much of the

41:36

Old Covenant into the New. They are going upon traditions of men that are damning.

41:41

The Bible never taught that our works cooperated in justifying us, not even in the

41:46

Old Covenant. That's right. Go ahead,

41:52

I'm sorry. Yes, well, no, one sub -part of her question, just thinking of a contemporary discussion in Protestant churches is the issue of antinomianism.

42:06

So it's very simple to say, I've been united to Christ, I am seated with Him in the heavenlies, therefore

42:15

I'm free from the law in all of its constraints, and that takes us into antinomianism, and then we become heterodox.

42:26

So it's really easy to fall on one side or the other. Thank you,

42:32

Susan Margaret, and guess what, Susan Margaret, you have won both volume one and volume two of The Whole Council of God by our guest today,

42:41

Dr. Richard C. Gamble, and please give us your mailing address, and not only is this a very generous gift you're receiving from the publishers,

42:51

PNR Publishing, but you're also receiving in this gift a wonderful act of generosity from CVBBS .com,

43:00

because these two volumes weigh about a hundred pounds, and the shipping cost is,

43:05

I'm sure, going to be quite high. So thanks to PNR Publishing, and also thanks to CVBBS .com.

43:13

You should be getting those in the mail shortly, as soon as we, or as long as we get your full mailing address in Dauphin County.

43:23

And we have a listener in Hoshton, Georgia, H -O -S -C -H -T -O -N,

43:36

Hoshton, I don't know how to pronounce that, Hoshton, probably, Hoshton, Georgia, Anthony in Hoshton, Georgia says, does this book, or should he have said more correctly, do these books, go into any detail on redemptive history where it points to the work of the

43:54

Lord Jesus and the church as the new Exodus and or the new

43:59

Israel? Does it look, does it, does it look the thoughts,

44:06

I guess he must have meant, does it look at the thoughts of Vos, and I'm assuming he means

44:12

Gehirtas Vos, on these topics and interact with them? I would be shocked if you said no, especially in regard to the first part of the question.

44:22

I don't know if you interact with Gehirtas Vos, but as far as the redemptive history pointing to Christ, it would have to include that.

44:30

Yeah, in a sense, was the name Anthony? Yes, Anthony.

44:36

Anthony's question, the answer is yes to both questions.

44:45

I spend a large amount of time, one of the beauties of writing nearly 2 ,000 pages is that you can spend quite a bit of time on a lot of topics.

44:56

But let me focus on the second part of the question, mentioning the name of Gehirtas Vos.

45:04

So Gehirtas Vos is, in a sense, the mentor for my two -volume set.

45:11

He published one volume, Biblical Theology, and besides that another volume called the

45:20

Pauline Eschatology, and both of those books were very formative for me, and you know, there's nothing new under the sun.

45:30

So basically the method that I've chosen in these two volumes I've stolen from Gehirtas Vos.

45:37

So when he asks if I interact with Vos, I see Vos really as a mentor, not one that I ever met.

45:44

I'm very old, but he died long before I was born. Yeah, he was one of the early, or maybe not one of the early, but he was on the faculty at Princeton just about the same time of the

46:00

Fundamentalist Modernist Controversy, or at least towards the Fundamentalist Modernist Controversy arose, at least towards the latter end of his tenure there.

46:10

That's correct, yeah. So that second question was really easy for me to answer in terms if you look at the index you'll see all of Vos's work cited almost, well, continuously.

46:23

I'm always in interaction with him. And you affirm that, of course, you cover the fact of redemptive history of even

46:33

Christ being appointed to in the Old Covenant Scriptures.

46:40

Yeah, so Christ is the object of the Old Testaments. He is the hope for Messiah.

46:52

The psalmists sing about the coming Christ, and the pious

47:00

Israelite knew that the Messiah was to come, and the prophets,

47:07

Isaiah, for example, spoke of the coming Christ, and the only one who could fulfill all the requirements of the prophecies of the

47:17

Old Testament would be Jesus of Nazareth. So yes, he's the focus of the Old Testament. Well, Anthony, please give us your full mailing address in Hoshton, Georgia, because you have also won the two -volume set published by PNR Publishing that our guest today,

47:36

Dr. Richard C. Gamble, has written, The Whole Council of God, and keep an eye out for that because it should be there in about a week or so, thanks to our friends at cvbbs .com,

47:46

we'll be shipping that out to you. Let's see here, we have

47:51

Kofi, let's see, I've got to enlarge

47:58

Kofi's question because the font is extremely small. Kofi from Medford, Oregon, and he says,

48:09

Hi Chris, and hi Dr. Gamble. I just want to say I was loaned a copy of Volume 1 of The Whole Council of God as a younger

48:16

Bible teacher and was so blessed by the approach you took to the Old Testament. My question relates to how younger men can develop their ability to teach these things in the local church, whether in preaching or in the

48:31

Bible class setting. I'm not sure why there would be a uniqueness about younger men being taught these things, but perhaps you can think of a reason that would be a unique way to answer that question.

48:46

Well, this is the third question and I've been excited by all three, so these are great questions.

48:55

Kofi's question hits to my heart as a pastor as well as teacher.

49:02

So if we go back to Acts 20 with Paul speaking to the Ephesian elders, he says that he's innocent of any man's blood, he's been careful, they've seen his life, they've seen his doctrine, and he hasn't hesitated to share with them, to teach them

49:22

The Whole Council of God. And it's my hope in the three -volume set, and so in the two volumes that have come out, that as I wrote it,

49:35

I had in mind, now I teach seminarians, but I had college students and Bible teachers in mind, that it's my hope that by reading these two volumes, in a sense, you can have,

49:52

I hesitate to use the word mastery, but clearly a clear vision of the whole

50:00

Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and that if you study these two volumes, you'll be able to answer many questions that are asked in Bible studies in churches and in homes, and you can rightfully divide the word of truth.

50:19

And so it's with elders and Bible study leaders in mind that I've written this, and I hope

50:25

I've written it in a way that's clear and understandable to the educated layperson who wants to take leadership in his family or in his church, in terms of leading people into an in -depth knowledge of the

50:43

Scripture, and that's why, for example, in volume two, the whole first section introduces all the different books and all the different writers, so that hopefully

50:54

Luke, the physician, comes alive to the readers, and Paul, the rabbi, we begin to understand how he thinks and how he was trained.

51:05

And so to develop abilities,

51:12

Kofi's looked at volume one, and I'm even more excited about volume two, so I'd like to hear from him once somebody lends him a copy of volume two to see if that really helps him as a

51:25

Bible study leader. Well, nobody has to loan it to him, because Kofi, you have also won the free set of volume one and volume two of The Whole Council of God by Dr.

51:36

Richard C. Gamble, and please give us your full mailing address in Medford, Oregon, so that that can be shipped out to you by cvbbs .com,

51:46

cvbbs .com. And don't forget, folks, for those of you who cannot win the two -volume set today, you can purchase that two -volume set for only $49 and change from cvbbs .com.

52:02

They have the lowest price anywhere for that two -volume set. It's normally nearly $110 for the two volumes, so it's less than half the price of retail.

52:14

But we are going now to our midway break. This is a longer than normal break.

52:20

This is because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show, because they air commercials and public service announcements that are local to Lake City, Florida, to localize the program to that area.

52:41

So while you're waiting for our guests to return, please take this time to not only write down the information provided by our advertisers, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers, so that they will remain our advertisers, and so that we will remain on the air.

52:59

Also, use this time to send in questions to our guest Dr. Richard C.

53:05

Gamble at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

53:11

And please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

53:16

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

53:22

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

53:28

And just once again, I want to remind our listeners to go out and see the movie

53:36

Gosnell, because, God willing, this movie will be used by our

53:43

Sovereign Lord to lead many to a pro -life position, once they more logically and consistently think through this issue of abortion.

53:54

And, of course, even more importantly, it might be used of God to actually bring the lost to eternal life in some way, even though the gospel is not included within the two hours of this film.

54:09

The horrific nature of this film may be used to jolt people into realizing that they have been aligned with the powers of evil and Satan and his legions, and perhaps,

54:25

God willing, they will be driven into the arms of Christ. And tomorrow, as I mentioned earlier, we are going to be interviewing

54:35

Alonzo Rachel, one of the lead actors in the movie who plays a detective in Gosnell.

54:42

Tomorrow, he will be our first guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio. But don't go away. God willing, we are going to be right back with today's guest,

54:51

Rick Gamble. So send in your questions at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

54:57

chrisarnson at gmail .com. And don't go away. Tired of box store

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Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

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Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience, featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

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And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times, 631 -929 -3512.

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Or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us.

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I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

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No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post -Tenebrous

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

59:30

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

59:39

Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the of scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

59:54

Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

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If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

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One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers.

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Or go to BatteryDepot .com. That's BatteryDepot .com. Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am

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I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man,

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I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, Pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a

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We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

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That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

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We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

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If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

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You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750.

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Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled,

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Resting in Grace. You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org,

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or even on sermonaudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor

01:03:14

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the

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Pastor's Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am

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.com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the

01:03:39

Pastor's Study by calling in with your questions. Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

01:03:46

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs a pastor.

01:03:54

Got to tell you, for my money, Chris Arnzen's radio program is just the best.

01:04:00

Iron. Criticizing. Iron. I think that's what it's called.

01:04:06

This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV, with Phil Johnson of Grace To You, inviting everybody to come to the

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G3 conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country. And it is.

01:04:18

It's a great conference. I love it. And Chris Arnzen was there last year. He's been there, I think, every year.

01:04:24

It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight.

01:04:29

Tons of stuff going on. Tons of great speakers. And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear

01:04:34

Chris Arnzen's laugh. And that's worth the price of admission alone. If you would like to join

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Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers, and me, g3conference .com,

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g3conference .com. My name is

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Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

01:05:07

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

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You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

01:05:28

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

01:05:34

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd recommend that you visit

01:05:43

New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

01:05:50

.nyc. Have a great day. Lynnbrook Baptist Church on 225

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Earl Avenue in Lynnbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a

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It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

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We're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynnbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

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Call Lynnbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit

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Lynnbrookbaptist .org. That's Lynnbrookbaptist .org. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

01:06:53

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone.

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That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

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That's CVBBS .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

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You'll get that absolutely free of charge by ordering at least $50 worth of merchandise and mentioning Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

01:08:38

Before we return to Dr. Richard C. Gamble in regard to the whole Council of God, we just have a few announcements of upcoming events that we hope you attend.

01:08:48

Well, first of all, next month I plan to be manning a book table, a book table, not a book table.

01:08:55

I'm talking about books so much it's kind of engraved in my mind here. I'll be manning an exhibitors booth at the

01:09:03

Quakertown Conference on Reformed Theology. This is a conference of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, November 9th and the 10th at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

01:09:15

The theme is The Glory of the Cross and the speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortlund, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson, and Carlton Nguyen.

01:09:24

If you'd like to register for this conference, November 9th and the 10th at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania, go to alliancenet .org,

01:09:33

alliancenet .org, click on events and then scroll down to the Quakertown Conference on Reformed Theology and I hope to see you there.

01:09:40

Then in January, for the third year in a row, I intend to be present at the

01:09:46

G3 Conference which stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory. This is a monumental reformed conference in the

01:09:53

Atlanta, Georgia area, College Park, Georgia to be more specific. It will be held once again at the

01:09:59

Georgia International Convention Center and they are expecting between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people to be there so I strongly urge you not only to register to attend but I strongly urge you to register for an exhibitors booth if you have a church, parachurch ministry, or business that you would like to promote amongst that crowd of between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people.

01:10:22

Perhaps you could even get a booth near the Iron Sherpins Iron Exhibitors booth and it would be great to meet you.

01:10:28

The speakers include a very long roster of phenomenal speakers, preachers, teachers, and writers including

01:10:37

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, John Piper, Stephen J. Lawson, Vody Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M.

01:10:44

Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson. We have Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Stephen J.

01:10:52

Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on that roster.

01:11:00

Go to G3conference .com, G3conference .com. Last but not least, if you love Iron Sherpins Iron Radio, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves, you love sharing the free mp3s with family, friends, and loved ones, you love the topics and guests that we feature on the show that oftentimes are rarely, if ever, heard anywhere else, then please donate as much as you can and as frequently as you can to Iron Sherpins Iron Radio.

01:11:26

Remember the daily caveat that I give, never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member in order to give to Iron Sherpins Iron Radio.

01:11:36

Never put your family in financial jeopardy in order to give to Iron Sherpins Iron Radio. Providing for church and home are commands of God, providing for my radio program is obviously not a command of God, but if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, then please consider donating as heavily as you can and as frequently as you can to Iron Sherpins Iron Radio.

01:11:58

Go to IronSherpinsIronRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

01:12:05

And you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card, or you can even mail in a check the old -fashioned way via snail mail to the address that will appear on your screen when you click support at IronSherpinsIronRadio .com.

01:12:16

If you want to advertise with us, send us an email to chrisarensinitgmail .com. chrisarensinitgmail .com and put advertising in the subject line and we will be more than happy to help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe.

01:12:30

You don't have to believe identically with me, you just can't be promoting something that militates against what we believe here on Iron Sherpins Iron Radio.

01:12:38

It's chrisarensinitgmail .com, chrisarensinitgmail .com. And by the way, if you do not have a church home and you're looking for one, you can't seem to find one near where you live, send me an email to chrisarensinitgmail .com

01:12:50

and put in the subject line, I need a church home or something similar to that. I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I have already successfully helped a number of our listeners find church homes near them, even not only locally in the

01:13:05

United States but overseas and even in Perth, Australia and other places. Please send me an email to chrisarensinitgmail .com

01:13:13

and put in the subject line, I need a church home. Now we are back with our guest today,

01:13:20

Dr. Richard C. Gamble. He is Professor of Systematic Theology at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

01:13:28

We are discussing the whole Council of God, which is also the theme of a series of books that he has written and is continuing to write.

01:13:38

He is expecting at least a third volume to be added to the two volumes already in print. And our email address is chrisarensinitgmail .com.

01:13:48

We have Gordie in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who says, How do a systematic and biblical approach to scripture differ or complement each other?

01:14:00

In other words, are they at odds with each other or is there crossover and harmony?

01:14:07

He is discussing systematic and biblical theology. That's another great question and they're not at cross purposes at all.

01:14:23

Both systematic theology and biblical theology are examining the same book, but we're both looking at the scriptures.

01:14:35

Joel Beakey has used this analogy. Sometimes if the scriptures are a river, you can use a river from a mountaintop or you can use a river from a road that's winding beside the river.

01:14:55

He likened systematic theology to the view from the mountaintop and biblical theology from the road by the river, and I think that's an apt analogy.

01:15:07

What would the view be with scuba gear on? Maybe that would be just the exegesis itself, being in the river.

01:15:16

I don't know. So I would steal that from Dr. Beakey. We should never be at cross purposes, but clearly there are different vantage points and most systematic theologies are from the mountain and this is more from the pathway beside the river.

01:15:37

Well, thank you, Gordie, and you have won a free set of The Whole Council of God by our guest

01:15:43

Richard C. Gamble, and I know that you're from Mechanicsburg, so since Mechanicsburg is so close to CVBBS .com,

01:15:51

why not save them the massive amount of money that they will be spending in shipping costs because of the weight of these massive books totaling over 1 ,800 pages?

01:16:03

Why not save them the money and stop by CVBBS .com on North Hanover Street in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and they are typically open

01:16:12

Monday through Friday between 10 a .m. and 4 .30 p .m., so stop by at your earliest convenience and pick up those books.

01:16:20

We have our guest that was on the program yesterday,

01:16:27

Mitch Tepper. Mitch Tepper, he is the new missionary for Christian Witness to Israel's North American Division, and he happens to be a graduate of the

01:16:43

Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, and he knows our guest, and I have to enlarge

01:16:52

Mitch's question because, once again, the font is microscopic. So while I'm doing that, if you'd like to ask a question of your own, our email is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:17:03

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, state, and country of residence if you live outside the

01:17:08

USA. Okay, here we go. Chris, again, thanks for an awesome day with you yesterday. Professor Gamble's systematic and philosophy classes were my favorite classes at RPTS.

01:17:20

By the way, it's about time volume two is finally out. Many of us have been waiting for years to read it, and here is my question.

01:17:31

I have preached or touched on predestination many times from the pulpit. Please explain and expound on why a pastor should wait some years before preaching on it.

01:17:42

I would think it should be touched on every sermon. Wow, that's an interesting view of our friend

01:17:50

Mitch Tepper, and I might as well give a plug to the North American Division of Christian Witness to Israel, which is a theologically reformed outreach to the

01:18:02

Jews. The name Christian Witness to Israel may be misleading to some because it is not primarily focusing on the nation of Israel, but on the

01:18:16

Jewish people. So I just want you to keep that in mind. But cwina .org

01:18:24

is the website for Christian Witness to Israel's North American Division, where our guest yesterday,

01:18:31

Mitch Tepper, is the new missionary.

01:18:36

But if you could answer Mitch's question. Well, I'm glad to get yet another question from Mitch.

01:18:47

He asked me questions for three years as a Jew, so that relationship doesn't change after a while.

01:18:55

Well, I think Mitch's gut response is a good one.

01:19:02

Why wait? Predestination is a beautiful biblical doctrine, and he's right.

01:19:09

When done properly, when done maturely, and Mitch is chronologically a mature man, when it's done maturely, predestination is an absolutely blessed doctrine.

01:19:26

By the way, did you mean that Mitch is immature in other ways? Sorry, Chris, I'm not saying that.

01:19:39

I'm just kidding, Mitch. I had such a great time with Mitch yesterday that I'm sure that he can handle a joke like that.

01:19:45

But anyway. Oh yeah, I'm sure he can too, and he can snap right back, I'm sure. Oh yeah, he can.

01:19:51

So he's right. I mean, his gut response is right. Predestination is glorious.

01:19:58

In the midst of all the trials that we experience here on the earth, thanks be to God for predestination.

01:20:07

You know, in the face of death, in the face of financial disaster, and in the face of all the hard things of life, if God isn't sovereign, if he's not in control, if he's not predestinating everything, then we should become like the hedonists and just give up and entertain ourselves to death.

01:20:32

But God is sovereign, he is in control, and he is guiding all earth's events to his glorious appointed end, and that includes you and me and all the listeners, and all the small details, even the sparrows in the trees are predestined.

01:20:52

So Mitch is right. It is a great comfort, but it takes a maturity in the pulpit that there are inherent problems in presenting predestination, where you've got, say, the problem of evil, and if God is in control of everything, and evil has occurred, then

01:21:14

God must have done that evil event, or he must have, you know, he may be a good

01:21:20

God in some ways and a bad God in other ways. So that's why the caution is given.

01:21:26

It's a blessed doctrine if handled well, and Mitch would handle it well.

01:21:32

But when you've got young 20 -somethings sometimes graduating from seminary, it's wise to wait.

01:21:40

Now, one of the reasons that I agree with Mitch, because I have heard not only from Arminians who say, why do you even have to teach that?

01:21:50

It's such a complicated doctrine, even if you believe in it, why don't you just leave that for your

01:21:55

Bible studies? Why do you have to use it in any way in evangelism? Well, I bring them to John chapter 6, and we go to verse 65.

01:22:09

Now, this is not specifically predestination, but it is about the ordo salutis, that regeneration precedes faith, where Jesus says, this is why

01:22:20

I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.

01:22:27

I mean, that's a clear teaching that seems to be uniquely a teaching of Reformed Christians, and here

01:22:37

Jesus is teaching it even though He knew that that would trouble a lot of people and turn off a lot of people and anger a lot of people to the point where they stopped following Him.

01:22:47

So isn't this an evidence that these teachings of Reformed theology that are unique to us, and I'm not even sure how an

01:22:58

Arminian would exegete that but isn't it true that we're not to hide these things?

01:23:06

I mean, obviously, there are certain things that you need not go into depth over when you're especially evangelizing a lost person, but these aren't to be hidden from people, are they, these teachings?

01:23:19

Oh, absolutely not. I may have given the wrong inclination or the wrong indication with Calvin quotes.

01:23:29

No, it's not something that we hide, but it's not for the theologically immature.

01:23:37

It's a beautiful doctrine, but as you've said, Chris, it's complex, and so to handle the complex things takes some theological maturity.

01:23:46

Now, yeah, you're speaking of not the hearer but the teller. The evangelist has to be mature because he may teach it as a hyper -Calvinist might teach it.

01:23:58

That's right. I mean, there's mistakes that you can make, and absolutely, we preach predestination with clarity to all the people, but the obligation is on the preacher to be clear.

01:24:13

That's where the hesitation comes in. We've got to be theologically mature to handle it well so we don't make mistakes.

01:24:22

Well, Mitch, you have won the final set, part one and part two, or volume one and volume two of The Whole Council of God by Dr.

01:24:33

Richard C. Gamble, so please give me your full mailing address there in,

01:24:39

I forget now, where his, Butler, Pennsylvania, that's where it is, Butler, Pennsylvania is where Mitch lives.

01:24:45

If you could give me your full mailing address there, I will have CVBBS .com ship that or those two volumes out to you.

01:24:54

Thanks for contributing an excellent question to Orange, Herb, and Zion today, and oh, by the way, Mitch, since you are a first -time questioner, you are also going to receive a free

01:25:04

New American Standard Bible in addition to the two volumes of The Whole Council of God, and we thank again our dear friends at PNR Publishing who are very faithful in giving us free copies of their books to give away to our listeners who ask questions, and we have a lot more books in store in the future, a lot more titles and authors to address on Iron Sherp and Zion Radio, thanks to Bryce Craig and the whole team there at PNR Publishing.

01:25:35

We're going to go to our final break right now, we still have a lot of people that have written in questions that we have yet to go to, but I do want to make sure that we have time for all of them, and I don't want to cut off your answers in midstream, so we're going to go right now to our final break.

01:25:57

If anybody would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:26:03

Please send in your question quickly because we're rapidly running out of time, if you want to get in line behind those who are already waiting.

01:26:10

chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages. Hello, my name is

01:26:18

James Renahan and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas. The Word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.

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01:26:35

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01:27:02

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Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ in his church as a pastor? Why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary?

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01:27:33

two S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. James White here, co -founder of Alvin Omega Ministries and occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:27:59

I'm so delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 Conference from January 17th to the 19th, 2019, where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme,

01:28:11

A Biblical Understanding of Missions. Speakers include John Piper, Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Phil Johnson, Josh Bice, yours truly, and many more.

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I hope you all join Chris and me for this phenomenal event. For more details, go to g3conference .com.

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01:31:44

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

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You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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01:35:07

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01:36:33

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:36:39

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Welcome back.

01:36:45

This is Chris Arnson, and this is the final 20 minutes or so of our program today with our guest

01:36:52

Dr. Richard C. Gamble on the faculty at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

01:36:59

We are discussing the whole counsel of God, which happens to be the theme of a two -volume set he has written with a third volume expected in a year or so,

01:37:09

God willing. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:37:15

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N, gmail .com. Please give us your first name, city, and state, and country of residence.

01:37:22

We're sorry that we have already given away all of the free sets of this book to listeners with questions, but perhaps in the future when we have

01:37:32

Dr. Gamble back on, you'll have other opportunities to win books. But if you'd like to purchase this specific set, keep in mind that our sponsors,

01:37:42

CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, they have the lowest price on this book.

01:37:49

It's just $49 and change for the two -volume set, which retails right now for over $109.

01:37:56

So you're getting it for less than half of retail price if you go to CVBBS .com.

01:38:02

We have a listener who happens to be one of your colleagues, Rick.

01:38:08

We have Dr. George Cipioni, who has a question. He has been a guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:38:15

And by the way, if anybody wants to hear an excellent interview with Dr. Cipioni, go to irontripandzionradio .com,

01:38:21

click Past Shows Podcast. That's our archive of previous shows. And if you type in the search engine

01:38:28

SCI, P as in Peter, I, O, N as in Nancy, E, George Cipioni, if you type that in the search engine, you will find the audio links for interviews with Dr.

01:38:42

Cipioni. But Dr. Cipioni asks, what are the best and worst trends in systematic theology today?

01:38:53

Okay. The best and the worst trends in systematic theology today, it is amazing.

01:39:02

Dr. Ferguson, Sinclair Ferguson, graciously wrote the foreword to Volume 2.

01:39:09

And we're older, and when we were in seminary, there weren't many systematic theologies that were reliable.

01:39:24

We had the classic three, multi -volume, say the classic three volumes of Charles Hodge, and then you have the one volume of Louis Burkhoff.

01:39:33

And in the foreword, he says, things have really changed. There's a number of systematic theologies that have come out in the last 10 or 20 years.

01:39:46

So it's a good question. The best systematic theology is, of course, the whole counsel of God.

01:39:53

Dr. Cipioni knew that. I'm sorry, Chris, I know you laugh. This was supposed to be one of the times when you laugh.

01:40:02

The very best is the whole counsel of God. I don't know when he says the best and the worst.

01:40:17

I haven't read many that I would even call not good. There are really a number of really good one -volume systematics that have come out from colleagues at Westminster in California and other places.

01:40:39

But there are some bad trends in theology that have systematic implications, and I talk about that some in the introductory part of Volume 1.

01:40:55

So, for example, there are systematic theologies that have an agenda, a distinct agenda, and they approach the scriptures, they try to do a systematic theology based on that agenda.

01:41:09

So, for example, there are movements where the agenda is that practical theology should, for example, control systematic analysis, that what's important is only the praxis of the

01:41:30

Church. And so what I've wanted to do in the whole counsel of God is move against any kind of a systematic theology that has a philosophical agenda.

01:41:43

There's nothing wrong with praxis in the Church, but the controlling motif of systematic theology to be a good systematic theology has to be nothing short of the whole counsel of God.

01:41:59

So those would be the worst trends, and you see it in mostly monographs rather than whole systematic theologies.

01:42:09

But we've had some bad trends, say, in the 70s and the 80s with liberation theology and systematic theologies that come from that perspective.

01:42:21

So I'll have to talk more at length with Dr. Cipione when we see each other again on campus, but that would be the answer that I'd give right off the top of my head.

01:42:34

Well, I'm assuming that you would include amongst the most horrible of systematic theologies.

01:42:42

It's not a new or recent work, but a 19th century one, and that is

01:42:47

Charles Finney's systematic theology. Yeah, yeah. If we go back that far, then

01:42:56

I've got a whole laundry list of bad systematic theologies. Right. Well, the reason why I even mention that is that I hear over and over and over again from pastors and even some authors and some apologists that are alive today, not from the

01:43:16

Reformed camp, but either modern evangelicals or fundamentalists who will cite

01:43:21

Finney as their hero. So it's not as if he has disappeared from Christendom as far as his influence.

01:43:30

No, you're absolutely right, and Finney was a Presbyterian pastor. Not in his theology, though.

01:43:37

No, not in his theology. He admitted later that he had never read the

01:43:43

Westminster Confession when he was ordained, after he was ordained. Well, that shows the poor state of the mainline church at that time.

01:43:52

But yeah, so if we go back that far, then there's some absolutely terrible systematic theologies.

01:44:00

I mean, we can think about Karl Barth or a number of major multi -volume systematic theologies that can certainly take the reader astray, if not cut to hell itself.

01:44:13

Amen. And when I first saw this email, my heart skipped a beat because I actually thought for a second that we had an angry

01:44:27

Andy Stanley emailing me to complain about my remark earlier about him wanting us to unhitch the

01:44:35

Old Testament from Christianity. But this person's name is Alex Stanley.

01:44:42

I usually don't give people's first full names, but since the statement

01:44:48

I made is actually true, I thought I received an email from Andy Stanley. We have

01:44:54

Alex all the way in Barcelona, Spain. I'm assuming he is an

01:45:00

American living there because that doesn't sound like a very Spanish name. But Alex from Barcelona, Spain says,

01:45:07

I am worried about the fact that certain Christians believe that it is possible for a

01:45:12

Christian to commit suicide and end up in heaven. Taking away one's own life doesn't give the person the time to repent or confess their sins unto

01:45:24

God to receive forgiveness. Can a true believer take away their own life and go to heaven?

01:45:30

Alex from Barcelona, Spain. That's interesting. Well, let me first of all let Alex know that if you go to the

01:45:36

Iron Sherpa's Iron website, ironsherpansironradio .com

01:45:41

and go to the archive and past shows podcasts and type in Shishko, S -H -I -S -H -K -O.

01:45:49

That's the last name of my friend Bill Shishko, also goes by William Shishko.

01:45:56

He did an excellent program with me years ago on suicide that we have archived there.

01:46:03

But that's a tricky question because there are indeed, I'm sure you would agree

01:46:08

Rick, that there are genuinely regenerate people who are suffering with mental illness and also are on a various number of prescribed drugs and even a true

01:46:23

Christian can fall into the sin of using illegal drugs and so on or abuse alcohol where it might affect the way that they're thinking.

01:46:33

But if you could comment about this very important and controversial question. Well, thank you for that Chris and I'd really like to listen to the

01:46:43

Bill Shishko podcast because Bill Shishko and I are long -time friends as well, so we served in the

01:46:52

OPC together. He's still in the OPC and I was a master in the

01:46:57

OPC. And it could be with Alex's question in Barcelona, Spain, of course in a

01:47:06

Spanish country, a Roman Catholic country, the Roman Catholic Church takes a very strong stance against suicide and I think we

01:47:15

Protestants should too. But I think Chris has hit the nail on the head with the complexity and I know this is a radio broadcast so I'll be really careful.

01:47:27

I had a pastor who committed suicide and he developed brain cancer and we were living in Switzerland at the time and he was fine when we left, but he developed brain cancer, had a brain tumor, and suddenly committed suicide.

01:47:52

And I'd known this man for years. He was a faithful father, a good pastor, a wonderful pastor, a great preacher, clearly regenerated, but because of the changes that went on in his brain because of this brain tumor, for some reason, took his own life.

01:48:22

So it's hard for me to answer that question outside of the existential experience that I've had.

01:48:30

I think I would give a different answer had I not gone through this with a man that I loved.

01:48:38

Yeah, the reason why it's a tricky question is because on the one hand you don't want to give people a false sense of security to think that, yes,

01:48:47

I will be present with Christ the moment I kill myself, because they may be deceived as to whether or not they are truly born again to begin with.

01:48:55

But at the same time, you don't want to diminish the power of the cross to think that Christ's death could not cover even the sin of suicide.

01:49:05

Yeah, Alex's question is complex because the scriptures are very clear. Murder is a grave sin, and suicide is self -murder.

01:49:15

So anyone who contemplates murdering someone else, we would have to say, you know, is that a true believer?

01:49:24

Well, to plan to murder yourself, to take your own life, is a heinous sin.

01:49:32

So under normal circumstances, I would say that it would be very doubtful that a true believer would commit suicide.

01:49:41

But again, there are these complexities. Yes, and of course, some people do not die instantly when they commit suicide.

01:49:50

They may linger for a while and they may repent and cry out for forgiveness for what they've done. But suicide is not the impardonable sin, and it is a non -reformed way of looking at it if you think that suicide is guaranteed a ticket to hell, because you're saying that the person's own will in regard to having the ability to repent of what they did, uh, you know, is somehow changing their eternal destiny.

01:50:23

That's right. But thank you. By the way, Alex, since you are a first -time questioner,

01:50:29

I normally never do this because CVBBS .com does not ship out books and Bibles overseas because the cost would be astronomical since we have so many overseas listeners.

01:50:41

But I am going to personally mail you, since you're a first -time questioner, a New American Standard Bible.

01:50:48

So please give me your full mailing address in Barcelona, Spain, so that that can be shipped out to you.

01:50:54

Thank you so much for contributing an excellent question to Iron Sharpens Iron today. We have

01:51:00

Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I'm wondering if Dr. Gamble can distinguish between his understanding of the whole counsel of God and what is, for the which has been the center of some controversy, particularly within PNR circles.

01:51:23

I'm not aware that PNR has some kind of controversy in regard to that, but I can tell you that the late

01:51:29

Harold Camping was certainly guilty of eisegesis, I think, by inserting

01:51:35

Jesus in every passage of the Old Covenant, or the Old Testament, I should say, even though Jesus, I believe, exists in more areas of the

01:51:47

Old Testament than many people realize, I think that eisegesis is a very serious error when you're inserting

01:51:55

Christ where he isn't intended to be in a specific way. But anyway, if you could comment on what

01:52:01

Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, has to say. Well, if I understand Ted's question and I look at the

01:52:07

I won't be able to really do a good job in 10 minutes, let alone in 30 seconds.

01:52:13

So let me do the best that I can to give a short answer and see if I've touched on Ted's question. Ted's question, if the issue is

01:52:21

Jesus on every page, say, of the Old Testament, it's really an issue in terms of classic systematic systems of the difference between Lutheran eisegesis and Reformed eisegesis.

01:52:33

So in Lutheran eisegesis, for the Old Testament to have value, you're more inclined to find

01:52:42

Jesus on every page. So this is precisely what Luther does, say, in his

01:52:47

Genesis commentary and many of his Old Testament commentaries. But Calvin, without usually mentioning

01:52:56

Luther by name, in his commentaries in the same books, will disagree with Luther.

01:53:03

And Calvin wanted to stress the meaning of the text in its historical unfolding.

01:53:10

So he has a much more biblical theological approach. Yes, Christ is the key to the

01:53:16

Old Testament. All evangelicals will agree with that. But in terms of Old Testament eisegesis, in volume one, for example,

01:53:25

I take issue with even some Reformed expositors who say that Abraham had a full working knowledge of the

01:53:33

Trinity, and it seems to me that no, Abraham knew what God had revealed so far, which certainly wasn't all the details, say, of the ontological and economic

01:53:43

Trinity. So it really shouldn't be, and inherently, if you're a

01:53:51

Reformed expositor, that really shouldn't be a theological problem for you. I don't know if that answers

01:53:57

Ted's question or not. Only Ted can answer that question. But thank you,

01:54:02

Ted, and keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio and keep contributing excellent questions to the program.

01:54:08

Spread the word in Tuscaloosa, Alabama and beyond about Iron Trip and Zion Radio. We have a first -time questioner,

01:54:15

Jordan, in Grand Forks, North Dakota. And Jordan says, is the whole counsel of God a biblical theology?

01:54:26

You sort of answered that earlier, but his second part of the question may be something that you didn't cover completely.

01:54:34

If so, what is the glue that holds all of Scripture together?

01:54:41

Excellent. So let me, as quickly as I can, answer both questions.

01:54:46

Yes, it's a biblical theology. It's a biblical theology that has a systematic thrust, but yes, we can clearly call it a biblical theology.

01:54:59

As I mentioned earlier, I'm indebted to Gerhard Voss's biblical theology and John Owen's biblical theology, so I would be happy to have the whole counsel categorized as a biblical theology.

01:55:14

On the other hand, I'm a professor of systematics, so I think it's adequate for a systematic text as well.

01:55:23

So let me, his second question is, if so, then what's the glue? And that's actually an easy question.

01:55:32

The author of the whole Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is ultimately one author.

01:55:39

God himself, through the working of the Holy Spirit, he's the glue that holds it together.

01:55:48

He inspired Moses to write the Pentateuch, and he inspired John to write the

01:55:53

Revelation. And while there are different men through hundreds of years, the glue that holds it together is

01:56:02

God breathing out his Word. He breathed out his

01:56:07

Word to Moses, and he breathed it out to the Apostle John, and thanks be to God for that breathing out and for that Word which he's given to us.

01:56:17

Well, thank you. I already forgot our last...

01:56:23

Jordan. Thank you. Thank you, Jordan. And you, unfortunately, we ran out of the books by our guest, but you have one, a free

01:56:31

New American Standard Bible, since you are a first -time questioner. Give us your full address in Grand Forks, North Dakota, so that can be shipped out to you.

01:56:40

We have Patricia in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Your book is described as blending biblical theology and systematic theology.

01:56:50

How would you define those disciplines, and how did they influence your work?

01:56:57

So, a standard systematic theology is set up by what we call the loci method,

01:57:03

L -O -C -I, which is a Latin word for simply place or topic. So if you open up a standard systematic theology, you'll see that it's organized according to the doctrine of God, the doctrine of Scripture, the doctrine of the

01:57:18

Church, and the various six to eight to nine different topics that a theologian will use.

01:57:24

So that's the standard organization for a systematic theology, and what

01:57:29

I do in the whole Council of God is I have whole sections on the different loci, the different topics of systematic theology, but I break them into historic unfolding.

01:57:44

That is, how does, on one hand, Moses see God? In volume one,

01:57:51

I examine the names of God used in the Pentateuch, and how those names unfolded, so a theology proper in the

01:58:01

Pentateuch is more like the acorn compared to the oak of theology proper in the book of Revelation.

01:58:11

So that's the interaction between biblical theology, which is historical discipline, showing how historically

01:58:22

God has revealed himself, and systematic theology, which has a system or topics, and I've tried to blend both of those together in these two volumes.

01:58:33

Well, we are out of time, and I want to make sure that our listeners know that, once again, you can purchase this two -volume set, a massive set that totals 1 ,800 pages approximately.

01:58:44

You can get it for only $49 and change, as opposed to the $109 and change retail price.

01:58:51

Go to cvbbs .com. They have the lowest price anywhere. C -V as in Cumberland Valley, B -B -S for biblebookservice .com,

01:58:59

and also remember that the website for the Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh is rpts .edu.

01:59:10

Do you have any other contact information that you care to give? No, that's good.

01:59:16

Well, thank you so much, Rick. We look forward to your return to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I will send you a calendar of available dates so you can join us once again.

01:59:28

You prove to be a phenomenal guest, and I want our listeners to remember tomorrow we have on the program one of the lead actors for the movie,

01:59:37

Gosnell. He is going to be joining us, and that's Alonzo Rachel, who plays one of the detectives in the movie.

01:59:45

Please tune in tomorrow. I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.