WWUTT 2045 Q&A Mount of Transfiguration, Wine or Grape Juice, the Statue of David

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00:01

Where is the Mount of Transfiguration located anyway? Does it matter if we have wine in our communion cups or is grape juice acceptable?

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And why is the statue of David uncircumcised? We look for some answers when we

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Understand the Text. This is

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When we Understand the Text, a daily Bible commentary in God's Word, that we may grow in our walk with the

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Lord. Tell all your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is

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Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. I said it all wrong. What did you say wrong?

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I said, tell about our ministry, but this says, tell about our website.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. When I wrote the script for you. When I change something up.

00:56

You change it up and I get all flabbergasted, but I don't notice until after I've passed it.

01:04

I didn't know that I changed anything in the script when I sent it to you. Okay. Tell about our website. Tell others about our website.

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This time I said about the ministry. Yep. No. No, it's vice versa. Oh, the other way. Okay. Usually I say the ministry.

01:17

Yes. This time I said the website. Yes. All right. Well, that shows you how close I pay attention to exactly what I write.

01:24

Speaking of websites. Yes. So let me throw this in here and then we'll jump into our psalm. Sure. But since you brought the website up, you know, our church, the church that we're part of now here in Casa Grande, Arizona, Providence Reformed Baptist Church.

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We're making jokes about how we went from FSBCJC in Junction City to now

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PRBCCG. Wait a minute. Did I get that right?

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Yeah. Two Cs. See, I can't even think. I haven't done it enough yet that I can't just pull it off the top of my head.

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Well, if that's too many letters in a row, stringing all those letters, that's too much to try to remember.

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ProvidenceCasaGrande .com. Ooh, that's good. That'll just get you straight to the church website. Now what's funny is

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I may have been told that, but I discovered that because I thought, surely we can come up with a simpler address.

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And the first thing that popped into my head was providencecasagrande .com. So I typed that in to see if it was available and it took us straight to our website.

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So someone had already thought ahead. That's awesome. And done that. You can find our church's webpage that way.

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I'm doing some tweaking with it, moving some things around, but you can find out information about our church, our statement of faith.

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Sermons are online there. Nice. Now I'm gonna put the sermons on the podcast. I'm gonna start doing it on the podcast too, but the sermons on the podcast are gonna be a week back.

02:49

Oh, okay. So you have to go to the website if you wanna hear it the week of. Got it.

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But then it'll show up on the Sunday edition of the broadcast the week, the next week.

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Gotcha. So there'll always be. Give you a little bit of a breather to get it uploaded. Exactly.

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I don't have to feel like I gotta do it that day because that day's already full with plenty of other things. Oh yeah.

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The Lord's work. Like a nap after church. Pizza and a nap.

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It's a pretty regular Sunday routine. Or we're going over to somebody's house and we're there all day. Oh yes. You know, something like that.

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Love it. Yep. The fellowship here is wonderful. So if you have the chance to visit our church, if you're in the Phoenix, Casa Grande area,

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Tucson, come on up and join us. We do Sunday school at nine.

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Church is from 1030 to noon. And we'd love to have you visit our church here in Casa Grande.

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Casa Grande, as some call it, the locals say Casa Grande. Yep. Now then, let's get to the

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Psalm. Yes, let's. And then we'll get to our questions. This being the Friday edition of the broadcast, we take questions from the listeners and you can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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We've been trying to start these Friday episodes with a Psalm and we're up to Psalm four. This one short like last week.

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Psalm three is eight verses. Psalm four is eight verses. For the choir director with stringed instruments, a

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Psalm of David. Answer me when I call, O God of my righteousness. You have relieved me in my distress.

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Be gracious to me and hear my prayer. O sons of men, how long will my glory become a reproach?

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How long will you love what is worthless and seek falsehood? Selah. But know that Yahweh has set apart the

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Holy One for Himself. Yahweh hears when I call to Him. Tremble and do not sin.

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Ponder in your heart upon your bed and be still. Selah. Offer the sacrifices of righteousness and trust in Yahweh.

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Many are saying, who will show us good? Lift up the light of your face upon us,

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O Yahweh. You have put gladness in my heart more than when their grain and new wine abound.

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In peace, I will both lie down and sleep. For you alone, O Yahweh, make me to abide in safety.

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When I was prepping for this episode and I was reading that Psalm in advance, I was looking at it going, didn't

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I read this last week? And it's because of that line in peace, I will both lie down and sleep.

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Oh, yeah. Because that was in the third Psalm as well. I lay down and slept, I awoke for Yahweh sustains me.

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Yes. Psalm 3 -5. Incidentally, I got a message from somebody because we talked about that last week and focused on that part.

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Yeah. And how we can be at peace and rest knowing that God is sovereign and He is in control.

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Somebody sent me a private message and said, you have no idea how much that spoke to me.

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Aw. And he said, I listened to you read the Psalm and that part hit me. But then when you and Becky dwelled on it, it was like all the more.

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I was like, oh, I just, I needed this and help me to relax. Oh, that's awesome. That was, that's amazing.

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Yeah, amen to that. But here also you have other imperatives that come up in the

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Psalm. Tremble and do not sin. Ponder in your heart upon your bed and be still.

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I do that a lot too when I'm laying in bed and I'm thinking about what have I done today?

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I can tell you I was laying in bed. When was this? Thursday morning, regretting everything

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I had eaten in the last 24 hours. Oh dear. That's not quite pondering my actions or my sin, but it was,

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I definitely got hit with something and I'm going, oh boy, I regret what I ate yesterday.

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This is awful. But you still have those moments when you lay in bed and you just think about, you contemplate.

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Don't waste your moments in bed. I think too many of us are quick to pull our phones out.

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Keeps us awake late at night because we're staring at our phone. I remember a friend of mine at our church in Junction City said because of smartphones, we've forgotten what it's like to be bored anymore.

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Oh my goodness, so true. Yeah, my children don't know what to do. Our kids, yeah, they just don't know what to do.

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They're like, I want something. I'm like, no, figure out what you can do.

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You have two fingers, you have a pen and paper, go. Well, that boredom is good.

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Yes. It is good for us to think about things other than streaming through our social media or playing dumb games.

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Well, I know whenever I have a quiet moment, which is rare, but it's usually whenever I'm in between things.

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And I realize that's the time that I just let my brain kind of float to whatever.

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And I know whatever I'm filling myself with every, like constantly is what

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I think about and what I dwell about. So like, I know if I've been on my phone too much, if I'm constantly thinking about what am

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I gonna look at next on my phone? Or if I've been out and about and driving, like I've been driving too much, cause

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I'm thinking about where I'm gonna go next. And you know what I mean? Things like that. Like where is my heart?

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And it's - That's a good gauge, I hadn't thought about that. Yeah. Like, where does your mind go first? Right. That's usually the things that have been consuming your heart lately.

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Yeah. And then I get convicted because it never goes to the Lord first, you know, in his word.

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That's our flesh. Oh man. Weakness of the flesh. So easily. So yeah, it's a, thankfully he's convicting me on that more and more often.

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Verse five, offer the sacrifices of righteousness and trust in Yahweh.

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That reminds me of Romans 12 one, present your bodies as living sacrifices unto the

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Lord. Yeah. This is your spiritual act of worship, holy and acceptable unto God. Yeah. So pursuing righteousness, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

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All the things you need will be added to you as well. Lift up the light of your face upon us, oh

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Yahweh. You have put gladness in my heart more than when their grain and new wine abound.

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When I put the kids to bed Thursday night, I was, the girls in particular,

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I was trying to help them think about what did you do today to be thankful for? Cause we had a grumpy end of the day.

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Oh yeah. You got to go to the store and you got new stuff. Yes. So can you be thankful for today?

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Why are you grumping at the end of the day? What do you have to be thankful for? And so we thought about those things.

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I convinced one daughter better than the other one. Of course. And you probably know right away which two they were.

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Yep, I do. I do. But more than that statement, more than when their new grain, when their grain and new wine abound.

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So wine was always a symbol of God's abundant provision in the scriptures. Let your vats be overflowing with new wine.

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Yes. So we know that God has blessed us abundantly. When the wine vats were full, it was a great harvest.

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So be thankful for more than a great harvest. You have put gladness in my heart more than when their grain and new wine abound.

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So we're gonna talk about something pertaining to wine. Oh yeah. Here coming up in just a moment.

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Yes, it's one of the questions that we got here today. We got a question about the transfiguration because that was something we looked at this week in Matthew 17.

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We have a question about grape juice versus wine and communion. Okay. This was like a skirmish that had bubbled up on social media earlier this week.

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And then the last question, I've saved this one for last because it has a little bit more of an adult theme to it.

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I don't think you necessarily have to dismiss kids from the room, but you might have to explain a few terms to them.

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So I'm saving that one to the end of the episode and I'll give you a cue when I get to that one. Yeah, that's what

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I try to do when you get those more adult oriented questions. We'll save it to the end. But first of all, so I can't remember if this was last week or the week before,

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I said, could you guys get online, leave some reviews for us? Oh yeah. Give us five stars because it helps to bolster the podcast when people are searching, especially for Bible teaching podcasts, the more interaction we get in the review section, the greater the likelihood that that podcast will show up closer to the top of the list.

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Right. So if you get on the, what would it be? iTunes? iTunes,

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I was told was defunct now. Isn't that right? So they don't have to do iTunes anymore. I don't know,

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I haven't been on it in years. I don't know, Apple podcasts, maybe. Apple podcasts, yeah, maybe that's what it is.

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So get on there. If you use your phone to listen to podcasts, whether it's

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Spotify or Apple or whatever it might be, click on that review section, leave us a review, give us five stars, helps people find the program.

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These are the latest responses that I had. Now I said that, hey, leave us a review because we'll read it at the end of the year.

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Here's why I'm doing it now though. Spotify just released or just sent people their list of podcasts that you listened to the most this year.

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Apparently they do this at the end of November. I was not aware of this. Oh, okay. But friends started contacting me and showing me the podcast, so the top podcasts that they listened to this year and how many of them had when we understand the text in the top five.

12:48

Oh, that's awesome. And I didn't know anything about this because I don't use Spotify. I just listened to, you know, whatever the podcast app is on my phone, whether it's

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Podbean or the one that comes to fault with your iPhone. But Dylan from Texas contacted me, showed me that we were in the top five.

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Aw. Top five most listened to podcasts for 2023.

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Beth, his wife, also had us in the top five. Woo -hoo. Chris from Wichita Falls had us at number one.

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Oh, nice. The Closet Calvinist had us at number three. We've had, we've read a question from the

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Closet Calvinist on here before. And I had a few others that had sent me, those are the ones I just wrote down right here.

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But thank you, thanks for those who have, oh, there was somebody else that said, I guess their podcast review also shows you how many minutes you listen to it.

13:41

Okay. And they listened to us for like 980 minutes. Whoa. In 2023.

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Oh, goodness. He said, thank you for filling 980 minutes of my year. We'll get a thousand minutes by the end of the year.

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Yeah, right. So that's pretty cool. And we appreciate you listening to the program and telling others about it.

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Also want to say thank you to Scott who sent us a Christmas ornament in the mail. Aw, yes.

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I sent Becky a picture of it. I don't have it with me right here. I meant to bring it in here while we were recording this episode, but it says it's our first Christmas in Casa Grande.

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I love it. It's so pretty. That's going to go right on the tree, Scott. We really appreciate it.

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I hadn't shown the kids yet. No. Once we start hanging ornaments on the tree. And it'll be up a little higher. Got to keep it out of the reach of the two -year -old.

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Yeah, he's getting a little ambitious. Oh yeah. He's going to try to climb the tree this year.

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He is. I'm sure of it. I know it. Yep. I know it. It's going to be worse than a cat. So here's some of those reviews that we got from the broadcast as well.

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This one is from, this one goes back to August, Gary. It says, if you like learning

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God's word and having it broken down in its truth, here is your podcast. Seeing God's word through a godly viewpoint and not a worldly one.

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Thank you for that. There was another one in July. Oh, can't wait until you're back on the air in August. Praying that the break was beneficial.

15:07

It was. Yeah. That's when we were off in July. Yeah. Then this one is from Gautam.

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I don't know. That's probably short for something. Okay. Solid biblical teaching, five stars. Nice. This one from Raleigh.

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What is one of my favorite podcasts? Biblical teaching that explains concepts clearly and in an interesting way.

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And then this one from Papa John, not to be confused with the pizza place. Outstanding podcast.

15:40

Doctrinally sound and biblically orthodox. This podcast is a must have. I go back to past episodes to get content on my current studies.

15:48

Oh, that's awesome. Now I did tell somebody I was going to take all, what are we at?

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2060 episodes. Where are we at now? That's a little high. I don't think we're quite there yet. So I think we just did 20, yeah, 2045.

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Yeah. I knew it was getting up there. Yeah, this is episode 2045. So I told somebody

16:11

I was going to take all 2045 episodes and I'm going to create a catalog on the website that just has them all listed and the links on them.

16:21

Because goodness, it is hard to archive these and whether you're using Podbean, it's probably easier on Podbean.

16:28

Apple only backlogs 999 episodes. So if you want to get episodes numbered back under 1000, you would actually have to type the number into Google to get that episode number to come up.

16:42

Wow. So what I'm going to do is go to, create a page on the website that has every single episode listed.

16:49

And I'll group all the ones in Matthew, all the ones in John, all the ones in Romans. That's a lot of work.

16:57

That's a lot of work, but I got to do that. Yeah, do it now before it gets too much. I'll try to have it done by the end of the year.

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Because I just never thought of this. I didn't think anybody would really resource it like a library, but I get quite a few comments about that.

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So we'll try to put them in certain orders. The Q and A's will all be kind of in one spot. I'm not going to try to group it by subject.

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Oh yeah, it's so random. Yeah. I mean, you just heard the subjects we're covering today. Yeah. It's not like we go with a particular theme or anything like that.

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Yeah. But yeah, once again, if you want to submit a question to the program, you can send it via email to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

17:36

Let's get to some of those questions here. This first one comes from Caleb, has to do with the lessons on the transfiguration this week.

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Okay. Dear Pastor Gabe, I appreciated your lessons on the transfiguration. Thank you for taking time and stretching that over three days.

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Here's my question. Sometimes I hear preachers call it not the transfiguration, but the

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Mount of Transfiguration. Is there any distinction intended when referring to the transfiguration itself or the

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Mount of Transfiguration? Was there any significance to that particular mountain? Thank you for your ministry.

18:11

No, we don't know where the actual mountain is. So there really is not a significance to that particular place.

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Jesus just took Peter, James, and John up on a mountain and it was somewhere in the region of Caesarea Philippi.

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Okay. Yeah, so that was the region they were in. So the mountain would have to be somewhere around there, but we don't know which one for sure.

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Yeah. And I think it's pretty obvious as to why. Yeah. Because people would go up there and think there was something magical or mystical about that particular mountain.

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Right, like the place instead of the event and the person. Yeah, exactly. And then you would be missing the significance of the story.

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It has - Which, you know, it's just how people are. Yeah. People don't do that now.

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Myself included, you know. They don't go worship relics and stuff. Well, they don't do that, but I do miss the point is what

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I was meaning. Gotcha. Well, I know you wouldn't worship the relic, but there are plenty of people that -

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Oh, yes, they do. Somebody's gonna build a temple up there. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Right. Yep. And there probably already is.

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And then sell stuff, you know. Right. Turn it into some vendor place. Yep. So yeah, like I said, there probably already is somewhere someone has built a, you know, a structure of some kind, a temple or a church or whatever on top of the hill and said, this is the place.

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This is it, yeah. This was where Jesus was transfigured before his disciples. But we simply don't know.

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And the point, of course, was that Jesus would be showing his glory to Peter, James, and John.

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That they would know he is the Holy One. And all of this was in the context of the things that he was telling them about going to his death.

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Saying that we're gonna go into Jerusalem. I am going to suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed, but don't fear,

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I'm gonna be raised on the third day. That was in chapter 16, verse 21. And he says it again at the end of the events of the transfiguration, when he says that the

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Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands. So he tells them this is going to happen, but fear not, you have seen,

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I am the one who was sent from God. I am the Son of God sent down from heaven.

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And for that brief moment, taking away the veil of his flesh and showing his glory to Peter, James, and John, and then telling them not to tell about the vision until after the

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Son of Man had risen from the dead. That was another thing they missed, because he says to them again in two consecutive chapters that he's gonna rise from the dead.

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And they just missed that part. Well, I mean, what does that really mean? Yeah. Instead, it's like our

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Lord is gonna be put to death. Yeah, we don't want that to happen. That's absurd. That's crazy. You're God.

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You're not supposed to be. Right. Not supposed to be put to death. But yeah, so the scene. We like the happy,

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I mean, even back then they liked the happy ending. The, you know, like the happy story.

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Yeah, right. Not life. A book like Judges ends on a very grievous note.

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Yes. And then it's resolved by the events that come about in Ruth. Right. Because then it's from the line of Ruth, you have

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David who comes, and then God's covenant with David, so on and so forth. Yeah. But it's amazing that how many people like today want their best life now, you know?

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Of course. Like that's not even, I mean, it's in the Bible, but that's not like, our lives are not easy.

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Even the famous people from the Bible, you know, like everybody knows their name. Oh, yeah.

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And knows their story. But they had a hard life and everybody focuses on the fun part of it.

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It's like you're forgetting the suffering that went through that. We all have to die. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing scarier than that.

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Right. Dying. Yes. That's true. Suffering is, you know, nobody wants to suffer either, but death is it, that's the end.

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And even though I know that when I die, I'm gonna go be with the Lord. Yeah. It's still scary.

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Yeah. Like read the end of Pilgrim's Progress before they get to the Celestial City, they have to go through that river, which symbolizes death.

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Right. And Christian is just, he's terrified. Yep. I can't feel the bottom. I'm dying.

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And who's the one that's with him? I can't remember the character that's with him at the end that goes through the river with him.

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It's not help, it's hopeful. Hopeful. Hopeful. So yeah, it was the H was tripping me up.

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But yeah, so Christian and hopeful go through the river to get to the Celestial City. And it's actually easier for hopeful than it is for Christian.

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Yeah. And that's to show that each of us is gonna go through death a different way.

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Right. For some death might be easier than others. Yeah. And for Christian, it was much harder.

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It seems to be what John Bunyan was conveying there with how they even going through the river, they both seem to.

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You're going through the same thing. Exactly. But you're handling it different. Yeah. Yeah. It's just different.

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That's a scary thing. It's a scary thing to think about. I know that my Redeemer lives. I know that I will live with him on the other side.

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But yeah, going through that river before getting to the Celestial City, that's a scary part.

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I think I talk about it more calmly and I don't know, like I'm okay with it right now.

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But because it's not a reality for me yet. You know, like I'm not suffering in that way at this moment.

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But I do talk about it calmly, more calmly because the kids ask about it.

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They're like, I don't want you to die. I want you to live forever. Yeah. Our kids do ask about that. Yeah. And so I try to make it like, it's okay.

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You know, like when the Lord calls me, calls me home and it'll be okay. I will be, you know,

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I will miss, I tell them I will miss them. I'm not sure if that's accurate when

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I'm over there, but right now, you know, thinking about it, I would miss them. But I mean,

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I know they're in good hands. Yeah. Because the Lord has them. So I, you know, if he calls me home, he calls me home kind of thing.

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I pray for my children all the time. Yeah. Because there's only so much I can do. They're in the

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Lord's hands. Amen. Yeah, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. As said in Philippians.

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And as Paul also says with the Philippians, it'd be better for me to go there. Right, right. But it's better for you that I remain here.

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Yes, I remember that. Yes. So, I mean, I don't know. I don't know how

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I feel about it really. I haven't really taken the time to think about it a whole lot. Death itself, not on the other side.

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That's what we want. Right. But it's that thing you gotta go through to get to the other side. Right. And I'm more of a positive thinker of a glass half full kind of person.

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So I'm like, nope, just skip over that. I want the happy ending, you know, just get me there.

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There are moments when the reality of my own mortality just kind of, you know, hits in my head.

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Sure. You're not gonna live forever. Yeah. Everybody's gonna go through this. Yeah. And yeah.

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I feel that right now in my hips. Yeah, you'll probably get some reminders in your body that we're not staying here.

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This is temporal. Oh, man. As I tell my children fairly often, but no matter what happens, no matter what happens, be with Christ.

25:47

Be sure you're gonna get to the other side. Yeah. No matter what happens in life, no matter, you know, how our roads may diverge, where God is gonna take you later on, because he's got a course for you that's different than the course that he has for me.

26:01

Yeah. But no matter where you end up, hold fast to Christ and make sure you're gonna get to the other side.

26:07

Yes. There's nothing more important than that. Nothing is more important than Christ. So praise God for that.

26:12

Anyway, coming back to Caleb's question. Yes, sorry. Is there any difference between referring to the transfiguration itself or the

26:20

Mount of Transfiguration? No, probably not, unless in context, you're talking about the location.

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But if whether a minister refers to the transfiguration or the Mount of Transfiguration, he's talking about the same event.

26:32

It's not that there's a significance to that place because we don't know where that place was.

26:38

Jesus just takes them up on a mountain. And as I kind of said, I can't remember which lesson it was, but I did mention earlier this week that we see

26:46

Matthew do that occasionally in his gospel, that Jesus goes up on a mountain and does something.

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He goes up on a mountain and he gives the Sermon on the Mount. He takes Peter, James, and John up on a mountain.

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He's up on a mountain when he feeds the 5 ,000. He goes up on a mountain when he ascends into heaven.

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Well, that's not at the end of Matthew, but he says on a mountain in Galilee is where he gives them the

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Great Commission. So we kind of think of that as being the end of his earthly ministry. Sure. We see those things in Matthew.

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It's kind of a motif that comes up and ascending to a high place is in the

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Old Testament as going to a place of worship. Oh, okay. High place was always a place of worship. I always thought of it like Moses getting the, you know, like going up the mountain and talking to God and stuff.

27:34

And that's connected with it. Yeah, that's connected to it. Because when Jesus goes up on a mountain and does the

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Sermon on the Mount, it's the first time Israel has heard from God, like heard the voice of God since Mount Sinai when

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God gave the 10 commandments. Hearing instructions and imperatives from God. It was 1 ,500 years ago at Mount Sinai and here

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God was speaking to them again on a mountain in Galilee through Jesus Christ.

28:05

I hadn't thought of that. Yeah. That's interesting. But thank you for your question, Caleb. Yeah. Good clarifying question there.

28:13

Now this next one, this is where we get into the dust up that happened this week regarding grape juice and wine at communion.

28:19

Oh, yes, okay. This is from Don in North Carolina. Dear Pastor Gabe, you might've seen the recent dust up online regarding grape juice and wine.

28:27

One of the cross politic guys said that Baptists who serve grape juice in communion are effeminate and should just be drinking milk in a bottle with a nipple on it.

28:38

In a response to Tom Askell, Tom Askell, by the way, president of Founders Ministries.

28:44

Right. In a response to Tom Askell, he said that it was directly commanded by Jesus to use wine and the feminist movement is why we switched to grape juice.

28:54

Is there any truth to this? I think you'd covered this before, but is it necessary to absolutely use wine or is grape juice a worthy substitute?

29:04

We have kind of talked about it. I don't know if it's like this specific, but we have talked about it.

29:11

Yeah, I think a question related to this has come up before. We're Reformed Baptists, of course.

29:17

The London Baptist Confession of Faith does say that the elements of communion are to be bread and wine.

29:22

But even when we see that mention in the LBCF 1689, is it talking about actual fermented wine?

29:32

Because you do have unfermented wine or non -alcoholic wine, rather, putting it that way.

29:39

There is wine that doesn't have alcohol in it. So is that still wine? Does that still qualify?

29:45

Right. This is really a semantic argument. I think that's how we had responded to it before when it came up in the

29:51

Q &A. This is semantics. Because grape juice has alcohol in it.

29:56

And it is actually undergoing the fermentation process, but it just isn't as far along.

30:02

Or it's been stymied because of pasteurization and stuff like that. But there is still fermentation and there is still alcohol in grape juice.

30:11

It's just so minuscule that it's not gonna get you drunk if you drink a whole lot of it. I remember -

30:17

Yeah, you'll have other problems. You might experience something, but it's not gonna be drunkenness.

30:24

I remember reading from one historian, I was talking with Alan Nelson about this, and I don't remember who this was.

30:30

It was just one of those things I was reading in my readings one time, and it wasn't significant enough to log it away, wherever I had read this from.

30:38

But it was talking about how there were Christians in the churches, in church history, that just didn't have access to wine.

30:46

But they might have access to grapes, so they would compress the grapes to get the juice out of the grapes, and then they would water it down, they would add water to it.

30:54

But they called that wine. That's what they called it. They didn't call it grape juice.

31:01

That term is fairly recent, because we bottle it and market it and sell it as grape juice.

31:07

But any kind of pressing the juice out of the grapes, which already has the process of fermentation going on, it just hasn't given it enough time for it to have alcohol in it.

31:19

And then you add water to it, and they called that wine. They called it wine. So then this is what they're serving at communion.

31:26

How far does the fermentation process have to go and you get alcohol in it before you can officially call it wine?

31:34

Again, that's why this is semantics. And the cross -politic guys, in case you're not familiar with them, it's the show cross -politic.

31:43

This was Gabe Wrench, was the guy from cross -politic that said this. And this is one of those statements, it's nothing but mean.

31:51

Like, I don't see how this statement was meant to edify or encourage the church in anything.

31:57

It was just being mean. Here's the statement as he gave it. So who did

32:03

I read this from? Don gave us kind of a summarizing of the statement. We didn't quote it exactly. Here's what

32:08

Gabe said. Okay. How many masculine, emphasized scare quotes, scare, scare quotes, scare quotes, scare quotes.

32:17

So he actually puts that in parentheses. How many masculine, emphasized scare quotes sit under pastors who serve them grape juice for communion?

32:27

Might as well serve them a baby bottle with a nipple and milk in it. So he's calling pastors who serve grape juice instead of wine, doing something effeminate.

32:39

He didn't actually use that word effeminate, but that's what he means because he puts masculine in quotes.

32:46

How many masculine guys sit under pastors to give them grape juice for communion? And maybe not, maybe he's not saying effeminate because he says might as well serve them a baby bottle with a nipple and milk in it.

32:56

I don't know, maybe he is saying effeminate. I don't know, I'm reading too much into his intentions, but that's the actual quote.

33:04

And really there's nothing about that that is meant to instruct or direct the church in something.

33:10

This is him voicing an opinion and causing a quarrel over it and what does

33:15

Romans 14 .1 tell us to do? Yeah, to avoid quarrels. To avoid, avoid quarreling.

33:21

Yeah. And this is a quarrel over words. Paul said to Timothy, avoid quarrels over words.

33:27

And that's what exactly this is. Paul gave this instruction to the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians 5 .12.

33:33

We ask of you brothers that you know those who labor among you and lead you in the Lord and admonish you and that you regard them very highly in love because of their work.

33:43

Live in peace with one another. And we urge you brothers, admonish the unruly, encourage the faint hearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone.

33:58

If Gabe really thinks that people who are drinking grape juice at communion are weak, then he should be doing something to help them, not throwing out these provocative statements that are quarrels over words and cause fights and disruptions among the brothers.

34:15

Yeah. This is not the first time CrossPolitik has done anything like this. It was several months back that they had made a statement on their program that Baptist theology is the cause of transgenderism in our culture.

34:30

Okay. And when they got taken to task over that, they didn't apologize. They said it was just Presbyterians being rowdy.

34:37

It was a slanderous statement. It was downright slanderous. It had no basis in fact or history.

34:44

Again, it was just being mean. And I don't see how this produces godliness in anybody by being this provocative and making these kinds of statements.

34:56

It bothers me that this is the kind of tone that comes out of, you know,

35:02

I know we get tone policed and all that kind of stuff today, but there's still something about tone.

35:08

Yeah. What is edifying about this at all? Again, it's a quarrel over words, exactly what we've been told not to engage in.

35:17

And furthermore, that it delves into legalism because he did make the statement with Tom Askell that Jesus directly commanded that we should be drinking wine at communion and not grape juice.

35:35

Where is that command exactly? Jesus said not grape juice? Yeah, he said,

35:40

Jesus said that it was supposed to be wine. According to Gabe, it's a direct commandment.

35:47

Now let me read this response from Tom Askell. I was quarreling over words. You were quarreling over words.

35:53

Oh, when you asked that question. Because it was not grape juices in there. Did Jesus use grape juice?

36:00

Is that where you were going with that? No, like, did Jesus say you can't use grape juice? Okay, right, right.

36:05

Because grape juice wasn't a thing, you know, back then. He called it the fruit of the vine. I know, but I was just kidding, like.

36:12

I know, it did not hit me. Nevermind. Yes, sorry, the joke didn't land. It's fine,

36:18

I do that a lot to you. Yeah, where I make a joke and you didn't pick up on it. Can you explain that a little?

36:24

Then you're like, the joke's gone, baby. Yeah, it's all right. It didn't work, had to be there.

36:30

Sorry. So let me read Tom Askell's response because I think that this really, you know, he just did it better.

36:37

He just says it better. And summarizes everything very well and articulates it better than I'm doing here. He says, my kerfuffle with my friend,

36:45

Gabe Wrench. My concern is not about whether wine or grape juice should be used in the Lord's Supper.

36:50

It's about his insistent that one disobeys God's clear command if he doesn't use wine and that masculine men sit under pastors who serve them grape juice for communion are unmanly.

37:06

So yeah, that's how Tom summarized it. Masculine men who sit under pastors who serve them grape juice for communion are unmanly.

37:14

So going on, he says, such pastors, he says, might as well serve them a baby bottle with a nipple and milk in it.

37:19

While he provides a target -rich environment for hunters of foolishness and fallacies,

37:26

I objected to only one point. I asked him for the source of that clear command.

37:32

He replied with Matthew 26, 27 and 1 Corinthians 11, 23 to 26, calling attention to the imperatives.

37:41

His reasoning, since wine was in the cup when Jesus says, do this, that constitutes

37:46

God's clear command that only wine may be served. Okay, but what about the bread?

37:54

Because this was Passover, so they were eating unleavened bread. Why doesn't Gabe get on his high horse about are you eating unleavened bread or you're sinning?

38:03

Yeah. What about if it's only one cup? Because Jesus took one cup and passed it among his disciples.

38:09

Right. Do you all do that in communion or are you passing multiple cups? Isn't it after they eat too?

38:16

Yeah, and after they ate. He washes his feet. Yeah, there was foot washing, everything else. Yeah. And there as well, yeah.

38:21

Well, John 13. But it wasn't like that part wasn't commanded, I guess.

38:27

So that, I guess I can say that. Well, even there Jesus said, do this to each other. Oh, that's true. So. That is true.

38:33

But John 13, it says after dinner, he took a towel and he washed their feet. John doesn't actually have the

38:39

Lord's supper in his gospel. It's in Matthew, Mark and Luke, but it's not in John. Okay. Because by that point,

38:45

John writing the last of those gospels, it was a pretty well established tradition in the church.

38:51

Sure. By then. So that's probably why he didn't include it in his gospel. Anyway, Tom goes on to say his reasoning since wine was in the cup.

38:59

Okay, I read that part. Besides the fact that his reasoning ignores Jesus' word choice for what was in the cup in Matthew 26, 29, which is where he says, he calls it the fruit of the vine.

39:09

Right. So grape juice, that's still the fruit of the vine. It is. Substantively, it is still the same thing.

39:16

So Tom goes on to say, he takes the facts that wine was in the cup and Jesus commanded us to drink it as a clear command of God, that wine must be used in the sacrament.

39:26

His reasoning is flawed, making his assertion invalid and his ridicule of men and pastors in churches who do not use wine, ironically self -indicting.

39:35

One can infer that wine must be used from passages, gape sites, but short of using a postmodern hermeneutic, one cannot turn said reference into a clear command.

39:48

A point that Josh Sommer succinctly makes from Gabe's own confession of faith here, and then he gives a link to that particular blog.

39:56

This is why I have objected to Gabe's original bravado about manliness being bound to wine being served in communion because God clearly commands it.

40:05

No such clear command exists. And if he is allowed to make one up here, then what will stop him from manufacturing other commands in order to bind men's consciences where scripture does not?

40:16

Such practices are destructive to Christ's people. Were he consistent in his hermeneutic, he would also necessarily say that God clearly commands that one common cup and one common unleavened loaf be used.

40:31

And anything other than this is tantamount to being served a baby bottle with a nipple and milk in it. I doubt he will be consistent at this point, but perhaps he might surprise me.

40:41

Now, let me interrupt Tom here to also say, I think the mode of baptism is pretty clearly indicated in scripture, but he's a

40:49

Presbyterian, he sprinkles. He also baptizes babies and there's no baby baptism either commanded or given an example of in scripture.

40:59

True. So this is wildly ironic to hear this from a Presbyterian that God clearly commands you must use wine in a cup or you're doing something unmanly, which is just kind of the trigger word among Christian nationalists right now.

41:14

Anyway, so going on with Tom's response, the reason I am doubtful is that I have seen this tactic before from Gabe and his friends.

41:23

Number one, make an outlandish and defensible claim. Number two, when called on it, deflect and change the subject. Number three, defend what you wish you had said or perhaps actually meant.

41:32

And number four, act shocked and misunderstood while refusing to own the actual words that you used.

41:39

That's just brutal. Truth hurts. Well said Tom, yes. And he goes on to say, that was the playbook used for saying that Baptist theology is the cause of transgenderism.

41:51

And I wrote about that here, that article's on the founder's website. Tom concludes, so those who see this as a debate about wine versus juice in communion have missed the point completely.

42:01

It is about hermeneutics, legalism, and misrepresenting God's word by claiming that he has clearly commanded something that he has in fact not.

42:11

And that is my clear concern, unquote. So there you go. I think that Tom attacked that issue pretty head on,

42:20

Don, and I couldn't have said it more clearly myself. Yeah, you did awesome. But thank you for your question.

42:28

And ignore the kerfuffles that are stirred up by cross -politic. Yeah. You're better off.

42:34

Last question here. Okay, this is the one that I said, a little more adult in content. So if you wanna listen to this first before the kids hear it, here's the question.

42:43

This is from Melissa, and she says, hi Gabe and Becky, I have a question which may seem a little

42:49

X -rated. Okay. Now just to forewarn you, it's not. Okay. PG -13 maybe, but not

42:55

X -rated. Sure. So I would like to provide some context first. I am living in Italy and recently had the opportunity to visit the museum housing

43:04

Michelangelo's David. I noticed something in person that I never noticed in photos.

43:11

David appears to be uncircumcised. I was wondering if you knew if the practice of circumcision has changed over time, therefore the artist's rendering may be consistent with the reality in David's day, or if this art is much like the art we see today, the chosen, she puts that in parentheses, which is far from the reality of scripture.

43:32

I happened to listen to your show before going to the museum and you were in my morning prayers. So you're the first one

43:37

I thought of to ask. May God continue to bless you and your ministry, love to you both.

43:44

Well, thank you for your question. And I said to her in the email that I responded with, not X -rated at all, but maybe

43:50

PG -13. Yeah. There've been several attempts to explain this matter of Michelangelo's statue

43:57

David being uncircumcised. I've never been convinced by any of these explanations. One of the most common is something that Melissa hinted at.

44:06

Okay. That the David statue actually is circumcised, that Michelangelo depicted him as circumcised, but it's a different kind of circumcision that only nips the tip, if you'll pardon the crudeness of that.

44:22

To borrow something Mel Brooks said. Yes. Nip the tip. Yes. Rather than a fuller circumcision, which is commonly practiced today.

44:32

See, Melissa asked this question tastefully. I'm the one that took it into like a whole other level. Well, the theory does not make sense, either historically or logically, because why would

44:43

God have instituted a seemingly imperceptible custom so slight that when you saw it, you would not immediately be able to tell if a man had been circumcised.

44:53

Right. So the kind of circumcision we practice. Would that take him out for three days? Would that take him out for three days?

45:01

Yeah, because you remember that whenever they get circumcised that they. Oh yeah, right, right. There's definitely a, let's call it a mourning period.

45:11

Painful. There's a little bit of pain involved in that there. So yeah, but that's when it's done on adults.

45:19

With the Hebrews, of course, they did it after eight days. True, true. So the child was to be, the boy was to be circumcised after eight days.

45:27

So of course this was, the circumcision that we practice today is the same as the circumcision that was practiced back then.

45:33

It's a noticeable removing of the foreskin. So whether Jew or Gentile, it was easy to see who had been cut and who was not.

45:42

Unquestionably, Michelangelo's depiction of David is uncircumcised. This is a common criticism of that statue.

45:50

Why did David, or why did Michelangelo leave it uncircumcised? So this apparent flaw in Michelangelo's sculpture was no different than most of the art that was coming out of the

46:00

Renaissance period, which as far as I know, there's no art from the Renaissance that depicts the circumcision.

46:08

Oh really? I think there's a painting that I saw of Mary with Jesus at his circumcision, but he's still uncircumcised.

46:16

And then there's other statues, other carving sculptures, other paintings that show

46:23

Jesus uncircumcised and he's noticeably older than eight days, like maybe two or three years old.

46:30

But he's still being depicted in those images as uncircumcised.

46:37

Why? You can find multiple articles on this subject. There's all different kinds of artists and historians that have pondered this.

46:45

Why are all these depictions of naked Hebrews showing the men uncircumcised?

46:52

Now here's my theory. And it's really just my own. I don't know that I've ever read this from anybody.

46:58

And I draw this theory not only from my own experience with art. I did actually take several art classes in college.

47:05

I was in art history. I was in art appreciation. I used to draw quite a bit and was interested in art history a lot.

47:12

So I'm drawing this from my own experience with art history. And also what

47:19

I know from, you know, the various critiques that I've made over how Bible stories are depicted in various mediums, even to this day.

47:27

There's what videos that I've done over paintings of Jesus. Of course, there's the critiques I've made about the chosen.

47:33

So here's my theory about the David statue being uncircumcised. You ready? This is incredibly profound.

47:39

Your mind is gonna be blown by this. I'm sure, I'm bracing myself. David is uncircumcised because he's sculpted to look like a

47:49

European, not a Jew. True. That's simply it. Just like Jesus in the chosen sounds a lot like an

47:58

American, not a Middle Eastern. It doesn't matter that Dallas Jenkins, the creator of the show, wants all of his actors to speak with this

48:08

Jewish sort of an accent. They sound like Americans. They look like Americans.

48:14

The dialogue sounds American. And the stories sound like common evangelical

48:20

American interpretations of these stories. That is in the show.

48:26

And so because the chosen comes out like that, guess what? The Renaissance artists were doing the same thing.

48:32

Yeah. Imposing their European sensibilities on these depictions of Bible stories that they were capturing in sculptures and paintings.

48:41

That's all there is to it. They were influenced by the European sentiments of the times. The uncircumcised

48:47

David is just another product of biblical ignorance. Yeah.

48:53

That's it. Probably. And there's my super deep theory on the statue of David.

49:00

Oh. And why he's uncircumcised. I am blown over. Yeah, I figured you would be. Looked like you were just hanging on my every word there.

49:09

I was. It's very profound. But thank you for listening, Melissa. And I hope you're enjoying your time there in Italy.

49:15

Yeah. Jealous. Yeah. A little bit jealous of that. Sounds beautiful. Yeah. I've looked at pictures at least.

49:23

What is Italy like this time of year? What would the season be there? About like this. Okay. It's Northern Hemisphere.

49:28

Yeah. Probably more mild. Well, it couldn't exactly be like this. We're in the desert.

49:34

Yeah, well. And that's like by the Mediterranean Sea, you know. Okay, gotcha.

49:40

Yeah. Yeah, Mediterranean climate. Yeah. So pretty. Yeah. Now, is she living there?

49:47

Hang on, did she say that in the email? I'm gonna go back up. She said she's living there.

49:53

So living in Italy. So yeah, it's more than just a visit. Seems like. But thank you for listening to us and thinking of us.

49:59

Yes. While you're on the other side of the world there. God bless you. And I pray that he uses that opportunity even to open your eyes to the scriptures all the more.

50:09

The truth of God's word. Yeah. Anything else to add, babe? Not that I can think of.

50:17

There is something I meant to mention last week. Oh yeah? In fact, because this is December 1st. It is.

50:22

So my book, 25 Christmas Myths and What the Bible Says. Yeah. How's that coming along?

50:28

Is available. It's on Amazon. This is now the third edition. So it's been updated.

50:35

And the third edition you can pick up on Amazon right now, either for Kindle. Now, if you've already bought it, if you've already bought the

50:42

Kindle version and you have it on your Kindle, you may just have to refresh. Yeah. And all of the updates will automatically trigger.

50:50

There's not many, very few updates that have been made to the manuscript.

50:56

Tweaking? Just some minor tweaking. Yeah. I had to change the, I added an introduction, which the book never had an introduction.

51:04

It didn't? No, it didn't. It just jumped right into day one. How did I not know that? I don't know. So I took part of chapter one and made it the introduction because chapter one did kind of feel like it was a little bit lengthy.

51:17

I was like, I could take these two or three paragraphs at the very beginning, make that an introduction. Oh yeah. Then it would, chapter one flows a little bit better as a result of that.

51:25

Maybe that's why I thought there was an introduction. Maybe so, yeah. It does kind of bring you into Christmas in the first chapter.

51:31

It does. Before it gets to the actual myth part. Yeah. So I added an intro and then I also had to change the acknowledgements at the end because we've moved.

51:40

We have. And I never did update any of my books to say that I was no longer a pastor in Kansas.

51:45

Oh man. None of my published books have said that I'm a pastor in Texas. Yeah. So now they all say,

51:52

I'm the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church in Casa Grande, Arizona. Yeah. So the 40 of the most popular

51:59

Bible verses and what they really mean, that one's not finished yet, but it will be done before the end of the year. But you can get 25

52:05

Christmas myths and what the Bible says, 25 chapters, taking you through some of the most common

52:11

Christmas myths that have crept their way into our traditions, bringing it back to what does the scripture say about this?

52:18

Yeah. And not just the narrative concerning Christ's birth, which of course is what we celebrate at Christmas, but even attacking some of those myths, like the

52:29

Mary myths, was Mary a perpetual virgin? Did Jesus not have any siblings?

52:36

Was she immaculate without sin? Was she sinless when Jesus was born? Right. Is there, what about like myths concerning Santa Claus and do some of our

52:46

Christmas traditions come from paganism? Answering questions like that, in addition to some of the stuff that we take for granted, like Jesus being born in a barn.

52:55

Right. Is that really what Luke two tells us about where Jesus was born? And so, yeah,

53:01

I got to check the book out, pick up 25 Christmas myths and what the Bible says, available on Amazon. Yeah.

53:08

And then coming soon, I'll update the other books to say that I'm a pastor in Arizona. All right. Sounds good.

53:14

That's it, that's what I wanted to add. Woo -hoo! Thank you for listening on this December 1st, episode 2045 is in the books.

53:23

Let's pray. Yes, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for the time that we spend here together, reading your word, answering these questions.

53:31

And I pray that it opens us up all the more to knowing who you are. Growing this relationship that we have with God through Jesus Christ, our

53:38

Savior, we come into this through the scriptures, just like having a conversation with somebody is how you get to know them.

53:45

So reading your word is how we get to know God. And I pray you continue to grow these things in our hearts that we may rest on our beds and ponder the

53:55

God of the universe, the one who sustains us, who cares for us, even while we are sleeping.

54:00

That we would take those sinful thoughts that we have, things that we've done also that might cause disruption among brothers and sisters in the

54:09

Lord, we would seize these thoughts, we would take them captive, we would lay them before God and ask to be forgiven our sins.

54:15

If we have wronged anybody, may we fess up to our mistakes, our wrong words, ask for forgiveness and desire to keep the peace with everybody as said in Romans 12, desiring to say things that edify the body of Christ instead of tearing one another down.

54:32

May we continue to be encouraged by the word and encouraging others with the word, holding fast to the promise of eternal life, not looking to the things of this world, but to the things that are above in glory with Christ.

54:46

It's in Jesus' name we pray, amen. Amen. Oh yeah, because you're not plugged in, that would be why.

55:20

Anyway, go ahead. Yeah, I saw that.

55:32

Do you see where he put it? No. In the trash can. Inside.

55:37

Oh, sorry about that. Put it in the trash can inside. And left it. Ew, it's still in there?

55:43

Uh -huh. Did the trash can go out to the street? Uh -huh. Okay. I'll take it out.

55:48

So you just have to, please. Yeah, that watermelon will stink. It's already starting.

55:55

Hey, we could make some watermelon wine. Oh dear. All right,

56:00

Grandma. Did she do that? Yeah, I think so. Grandma would make wine out of some spoiled fruit.

56:08

She made it out of, she did some apricot one year and I forgot what else she did, but I'm pretty sure one of them was watermelon.

56:18

It was just like random flavors. I was like, oh, that's interesting. But it tasted terrible.

56:25

Oh, it all does. It does. It's fermented fruit. It really does. But it was like, oh,

56:30

I'm not even gonna like pretend this is, you know. Yeah. A couple sips. We got a question about wine.

56:36

Do we? Here on this one, yep. Nice. I don't know if I like it. What, what is that?

56:43

It's bubble tea. It's bubble tea? Is that like a new, if something's bubbly, you say it's bubble tea?

56:50

No, it's literally bubble tea. Oh, bubble tea. Are you gonna be able to understand me?

56:57

I thought you were doing like another cute word here. It's really bubble tea. It's really bubble tea.

57:07

It's strawberry. A Becky -ism. Yes. Strawberry lemonade green tea. I mean, it tastes good, but it's just different with the boba in there.

57:19

You know what boba is, right? No. The little juice -filled, it reminds me of the pudding, the tapioca pudding, the little bubbles in it.

57:32

Ooh, yeah. But it's not that flavor, obviously, but it is like the bubble.

57:37

I know, you feel the, that was what I didn't like about tapioca. The flavor was fine. It was the texture that was like.

57:43

Oh, funny. I feel like I got fish eggs in this thing. I actually really liked it. Yeah, I didn't care for tapioca.

57:50

I mean, I don't think I've had it since I was a kid, but I liked the flavor just fine. It was just that weird texture.

57:55

There was that drink. I don't know if you remember this. This was years ago, but they had, it was like a soda or something, and it was clear, and it had these little floaty bubbles in it.

58:08

Oh, yeah. I think the texture was kind of spongy. I think it was called

58:14

Sphere, was the name of the drink. Yeah, I think so. Man, that's been forever. It was a while back.

58:21

Wow, yeah. Oh, man, I hated that too. I tried it once. I never tried it. I was intrigued.

58:28

I even remember where the cooler was at the store when I pulled the bottle out and bought it, and yeah, the texture was, that was another thing.

58:36

It was like, this just doesn't belong in your soda. I'm spending money on things that I'm not sure I'm gonna like. Oh, I'm up for trying new things.

58:45

Nope, I've got my box I'm very comfortable in. I mean, yeah, I definitely have my, my world right here is good.

58:54

You could keep this unchanged, and I would be happy the rest of my life. Oh, I know, yes. You know that, right?

59:01

I know that very well. Just give me 90s Christian music. I never need to listen to another song for the rest of my life.