Road Trip Radio Free Geneva--36 Hours After Surgery!

Alpha & Omega Ministries

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:16

You can constantly hear people that are Calvinist harp on this, God's offering,

00:22

God's offering, God's offering, God's offering, God's offering. They just keep repeating it, and they repeat it so much you start to think it's a biblical truth.

00:38

Standing on top of my hands, standing on top of my feet, standing on a stump and crying out,

00:46

He died for all those who elected, were selected. You take lessons from Judas White and Jeff Durbin, it shows in this kind of sequential format and...

01:06

Do you really believe that it parallels the method of exegesis that we utilize to demonstrate those other things?

01:20

Um, no. I've said the other day in class that I don't understand the difference between hyper -Calvinism and Calvinism.

01:31

It seems to me that Calvin was a hyper -Calvinist. Even Jesus cannot override your unbelief.

01:56

It's evil for causally determining Bucky to kill Tony Stark's parents, but everybody recognizes that Doctor Strange is the hero in Infinity War and Endgame.

02:05

In Infinity War and Endgame. You need to realize that he's gone from predeterminism, now he's speaking of some kind of middle knowledge that God now has to...

02:24

I deny and categorically deny middle knowledge. Then don't beg the question that would demand me to force you to embrace it.

02:36

We're not always talking about necessarily God choosing something for no apparent reason, but you're choosing that meat because it's a favorable meat.

02:44

There's a reason to have the choice of that meat. From our bunker deep underneath Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, safe from Dave Hunt fans,

03:02

Leighton Flowers, provisionists, and future monks of the Dominican order, we are Radio Free Geneva.

03:16

Okay, so we've made a little bit of a mistake by allowing me to have access to this video.

03:27

And I know it's going to echo a little bit here for a second, but look, every time we play this,

03:37

I... See, now I have access to it. Watch this. Okay. This is honestly the most amazing statement that has ever been made to me in a debate.

03:54

And every time we play the Radio Free Geneva opening, I lose it at this point.

04:01

So I get to play it again because I'll feel good and I get to do whatever I want to do. So just follow the reasoning here for a second.

04:13

And you need to realize that he's gone from predeterminism. Now he's speaking of some kind of middle knowledge that God now has to...

04:23

I deny and categorically deny middle knowledge. Then don't beg the question that would demand me to force you to embrace it.

04:40

I'm just always left going, I don't even know.

04:46

I can't... No, I don't know. Welcome to Radio Free Geneva.

04:54

Oh, goodness. So thank you, Tim Beauchamp, for once again completely messing my mind up with that, reminding me of that.

05:05

I am in Mount Pleasant, Texas, and this is where I was Monday when we did a program.

05:12

I have excellent 5G service here. I have a feeling we're going to have a good program, at least as far as the signal's concerned.

05:22

This is where I was Monday. Tonight I was supposed to be speaking in Pryor, Oklahoma.

05:30

If you go back and watch the last program... We're going to get to all the Radio Free Geneva stuff, trust me.

05:36

I know. If you go back and watch the last program, you will see a number of times during the program me sitting back and then forward and sort of mainly this direction.

05:52

I was already hurting. I started hurting on the drive in. This was going to be a one -night stop on my way to Pryor.

06:01

I was really looking forward to speaking at the church there, spending time with Derek Melton and the folks there.

06:07

They know me. Been there a number of times over the years now. And I started hurting.

06:14

I narrated for you the chocolate almond milk disaster.

06:22

During that whole time, with all the mopping and cleaning and everything else, I didn't really feel bad.

06:29

But once I sat back down, like I'm sitting now, I was concerned by the time

06:36

I went to bed. By 2 o 'clock in the morning, I knew what was going on.

06:44

And I made the decision to try to get an Uber to take me to the hospital, which is barely half a mile away.

06:53

As the crow flies anyways, you have to go across a freeway. But I had happened to notice it as I was driving in that the

07:00

RV park that I'm at here is very close to the hospital. There is no

07:06

Uber service at Mount Pleasant, I discovered. Eventually, I had to call the hospital and they had an ambulance.

07:16

I don't know what that's going to cost. Half a mile will probably be a ridiculous amount of money. But they came and got me.

07:26

By the time I got to the hospital, I had almost passed out twice. I had surgery on Tuesday morning.

07:39

It was not really successful. It was more of a, this will give you some time to get home and hopefully prepare things for a more successful surgery.

07:53

These are kidney related issues. They are kidney stone related issues. What happened is

07:59

I had a massive stone block off one of my kidneys. And kidneys don't like being blocked off to where they can't drain anymore.

08:08

And the pain is intense. It's pretty amazing. And they were not able to get to the stone.

08:18

I hope and pray that what they did will allow them to get to it this time.

08:25

Because if not, then they have to do old fashioned surgery where they cut you up and you're out of things for a long time.

08:32

Well relatively, a lot longer than most surgeries today. So here

08:43

I am. I took today to try to recover.

08:51

There are various unpleasant side effects to surgeries. And I'm going to be in the truck for at least five hours tomorrow.

09:04

I'll let you all figure out all the complications that that involves as I start the trip home.

09:10

And I won't be speaking anywhere or anything like that. But I'll be headed home.

09:17

We've made the stops. Tomorrow will be the longest leg as far as the amount of time.

09:24

But like I said, when I get home, just a few days after we drop the unit off for the work that needs to be done on it,

09:33

I've got my first consultation. And hopefully, though in post -COVID

09:40

America, I don't know, hopefully only a few days after that I would like to get the second surgery done so I can start recovering before the summer when

09:51

I already have plans and stuff. Now I realize my plans and God's plans may not be the same thing.

09:57

But I don't want to give up really quickly and just throw everything out the window either. So yeah, here we are still in Mount Pleasant and be heading out tomorrow.

10:09

Lord willing, don't know how it's going to work yet, but you just try to adapt as time goes on.

10:17

And so that's what we're doing. One of the reasons I mentioned this is I just want to thank everyone.

10:22

I've been overwhelmed by the number of people contacting me. Even debate opponents have posted prayer requests.

10:30

Pray for James White, he's having emergency surgery. And I didn't call it emergency surgery.

10:36

I said I'm in the emergency room and I'm going to have surgery. So I guess that makes it emergency surgery of some kind.

10:43

But, you know, I'm still thankful that we had... Believe me,

10:49

I've stayed at RV parks that weren't anywhere near a hospital. So in God's providence, this took place when

10:57

I was half a mile from a hospital. I'm thankful for that.

11:04

I truly am. And boy, word travels fast in RV parks. This morning, the folks that had parked next to me...

11:13

It's a small park and there's not a whole lot of room between the slots. And they had a unit as long as mine is, and that means we're both pretty long.

11:24

And so I had gone out to try to help make extra room because they sort of have to do a turn to...

11:31

He just didn't want to hit my truck. And so I'm slowly coming out of the unit.

11:37

Because going up and down stairs is something I need to do slowly at the moment. And I said, hey, can

11:44

I help? I'm sorry. It took me a second to get out.

11:49

I ended up having surgery here the day before yesterday. And they're like, yeah, we know.

11:54

They told us to sign in. We checked in. Oh, you're going to get to park next to the guy who just had surgery.

12:02

What's that all about? I don't know. RV parks are interesting places.

12:08

They truly, truly, truly are. I mean, there are people around me here that they just live here all the time.

12:14

And then there are all sorts of slots that people are here for one night and then gone. So it's an interesting dynamic.

12:21

Anyhow, so prayers appreciated. I'm supposed to get home on the 8th.

12:27

It's six days from now. That's going to take a while. I'm halfway across the U .S. And I can't do long days, just obviously.

12:37

I had not planned to do it initially anyways when I was feeling good. The thing was, man,

12:44

I was feeling so good Monday. I really was. I was. And then everything changed.

12:51

So anyways, things like that can happen. And it's all in God's hands. I thank everyone for the prayers, for all the people that were getting word out and things like that on social media.

13:03

And we'll move on from there. That's the best you can do.

13:10

I was talking with a pastor friend here locally. I didn't know anybody here.

13:16

But through Jeff Johnson, the president of GBTS, he knew the Reformed Baptist Church here in town and got us in touch.

13:24

That pastor gave me the ride back from the hospital to the park here, and then we had lunch today together.

13:33

The amazing thing is, you see this? I know where it is. See this scar here? He has the exact same scar in the exact same location.

13:43

And he got his when he was two, and I got mine when I was three or four. We exchanged stories today.

13:49

But, yeah, it was great to meet local folks. And, in fact,

13:55

I forgot to tell Summer this. A member of his church has been on Sheologians with Summer, and so he knew about my daughter.

14:04

And, yeah, so it was great to meet someone locally, even though the circumstances were not normally the way you'd like to do that.

14:14

So who knows? Maybe in the future the Lord grants me more time to be doing all this kind of stuff regularly.

14:21

We can come here and come here purposely for more than one night and speak at the church and do things like that.

14:29

I'd be happy to do that, and that would be very enjoyable to do. Anyway, so there's lots of stuff we could be talking about.

14:36

And my hope and prayer is that I will handle the driving home in such a fashion that I'll want to be able to, when we have a good connection, do some programs on the way home because there's lots to be talking about.

14:54

The law that was passed by the House of Representatives that literally uses a definition of anti -Semitism that includes the idea of saying that the

15:12

Jews were responsible for Jesus' death. Lots that needs to be talked about about that.

15:21

Most Christians have not thought through what they believe on this subject. And I can provide some insights based upon my experience in seminary starting in the 1980s and the reality that post -World

15:42

War II there has been a tremendous amount of embarrassment by certain passages of the

15:49

New Testament and, of course, tremendous history in European history of Christian persecution of Jews.

15:59

There's no question about that. But at the same time, you can't change history, and you can't change the

16:07

Bible. Though I would think, actually, that a lot of folks in government today might think that that's something you can do.

16:19

We can't. So those things we need to be talking about and thinking about and preparing to not only be ready to give an answer but seeking to glorify

16:32

Christ in the way that we can respond to these things. So why are we doing Radio Free Geneva? Well, because most of the material that I had prepared and on my hard drive and ready to go is on that subject.

16:45

So on Monday, I said eventually we would get to the material that Jason Bretta had posted on Hebrews 7.

16:57

So I have that queued up. And then I encountered another thing.

17:07

I don't even know how it popped up, to be honest with you. I don't know if somebody sent it to me or if it popped up in my feed or just what it was.

17:16

But it's a video called Calvinist Distortions.

17:22

And if you're new to The Dividing Line, we started

17:27

Radio Free Geneva many, many, many, many years ago. And our first RFG was in response to generally what we focused upon were fundamental confusions and misrepresentations of Reformed theology.

17:53

Since then, we've dealt with really bad misrepresentations. We've dealt with really good objections.

18:02

We've expanded stuff out. But most of what is thrown at us isn't really good.

18:10

And so that's what we try to help folks be prepared to redeem the time and give a response and go from there.

18:22

So it's only a five -minute and 44 -second video. Now, I will admit there have probably been times in the past where I've tried to respond to a five -minute and 44 -second video, and it took two programs, depending on the nature of things.

18:39

I will try to be relatively brief because I do want to get to the other stuff.

18:47

And I thought that was... Oh, there it is.

18:55

I will make some mistakes. The Jason Breda Algarza thing, I will undoubtedly, you will see strange things on your screen.

19:04

I've got way too many windows open, and they're going to end up up on the screen somewhere.

19:12

I can pretty much guarantee it. A lot of people would be going, why in the world are you doing this at all?

19:23

Because this is what we do. Oh, by the way, one thing before I jump into the

19:29

Calvinist distortions. There was a... and I say a prayer for this guy.

19:37

There's a fellow, I think the name,

19:43

I don't have it up here to be able to grab it real quick, but I think it was Rogue Calvinist, posted a relatively short video on YouTube yesterday,

19:52

I think. And he played a portion of Monday's program where, again,

20:00

I was mentioning that one of the reasons

20:07

I love traveling like this, and I'll be honest, my heart is concerned.

20:12

I would really hate to stop being able to do this due to physical limitations.

20:18

But, you know, again, that's up to the Lord. And I was talking about how after debates, after talking, there was even a guy, by the way,

20:30

I feel so badly about this. There was a fellow who didn't get the word about the cancellation of the last two nights in prior, and drove two and a half hours from,

20:41

I believe, Moore, Oklahoma, to hear me speak, and I wasn't there. And it's hard for me to express how badly

20:49

I feel about things like that. It's not like I did it to myself.

20:54

But honestly, I hope if that fellow is listening or listens to this, that you'll contact us and give us your church information.

21:05

Let me see if there's some way I could come by and make it up to you in some way.

21:11

In fact, what we are doing is we're rescheduling prior to the week after when

21:21

I'm in St. Charles in December. Lord willing, you know, I've made it to St. Charles for 23 years now.

21:27

I think this is year 24. And so that'll be on my return trip in December.

21:37

So maybe we can work something out, but my apologies again along those lines.

21:43

OK, so try to get undistracted here and focus on what is said here.

21:50

So we're going to listen to this video, and YouTube's full of these things.

21:57

I cannot imagine how many thousands and thousands of hours of really, really bad stuff there is on the

22:11

Reformed faith on YouTube. YouTube is becoming the collective database of human depravity.

22:22

It really is. I mean, sure, there's lots of good stuff. Printing press, we can use it for good or bad. Internet, you can use it for good or bad.

22:30

But wow, there is so much collective bad stuff out there on YouTube.

22:38

And so we need to know how to respond to it. So let me. It's a video, but it just has a static screen on it, so there's no reason for me to put it up.

22:49

Besides that, if I do that, then it makes it harder for me to fight. If I choose to pull up a cord and display a verse or something like that, then this is just the easier way to do it.

23:04

So we'll just be listening. The problem is I have to. It's a little bit challenging how we do sound right now, and I didn't even think about grabbing my earphones.

23:16

I don't know that that would actually help me at all, but we'll do the best we can. Let's let's see how this works.

23:23

Calvinism is a religious construct is full of distortions. Here are some of the main ones. Calvinist distortion.

23:29

People cannot believe or have faith unless God makes them believe the truth. People can be persuaded.

23:36

Romans 14, 5 and are saved once they believe the truth and accept it. Romans 10, 17,

23:42

Mark 16, 16. Now, so what you did, what you will encounter all the time is.

23:53

Take a statement that in a particular context would have some level of truth to it.

24:00

But ignore the rest of the context that gives it meaning. So what does a reformed person mean when they say that someone cannot believe?

24:12

What they are saying is that saving faith is a divine work. And that man.

24:20

In the natural state as a fallen son or daughter of Adam.

24:27

And this is, you know, I don't know what this guy's theology is. I can. Well, actually, I can. He's an anti lordship.

24:33

Easy believism. Sort of evangelical type person.

24:41

But. The the real fundamental issues always, always come back to what your theology of God is.

24:52

Many of these people have a very, very squishy theology of God. And what your theology of man is, what your anthropology is.

25:02

And. So what the reformed person is saying is that if you are only in Adam.

25:11

If you have not been regenerated, you've not been given spiritual life, then you're spiritually dead.

25:17

That does not mean you're simply a corpse. Does not mean you're you're not active. What it means is you.

25:25

You do not have a source of desire for spiritual good.

25:31

As Jesus said, you commit sin is what the slave of sin. So you are in slavery to your sin.

25:39

And Gia said, no man can come to me. You do not have that capacity or ability.

25:46

You are dependent upon God for the ability to have spiritual desires at all.

25:55

As Paul said in Romans, chapter eight. Those requiring the flesh cannot submit themselves to the law of God.

26:02

So you are to use the old covenant. You have a heart of stone. And you need a heart of flesh.

26:10

Now, the heart of stone doesn't want to jump out of your chest. And the heart of stone is not going to choose to change itself.

26:19

And so you need a spiritual work of God. And so what we're saying is no man has the ability to have saving faith.

26:33

There are people who can have a false faith, a short term faith, all sorts of things like that that are not saving.

26:42

Because they're not the work of the spirit of God. They're not the result of the spirit of God raising you to spiritual life.

26:48

And so people can hear the gospel. They can even understand what the gospel is saying. But they do not have the capacity as slaves of sin to knock the chains off their own hands.

27:01

Something else needs to happen. And that's a divine act needs to happen. So that's very, very important.

27:10

Someone just, yeah, oh, so DoorDash just wants me to.

27:15

So they did tell me I could DoorDash here. And I did have a really,

27:21

I ate at Chili's today with the pastor here. And the reason we did is the whole time

27:28

I was in the hospital, the TV channel that I was watching was just running constant

27:35

Chili's commercials with this smash burger. And it's like, I have to have one of those.

27:40

And I'm going to tell you something. It's really good. It's really, really good. And I think the waitress indicated

27:45

I could get that, but I leave in the morning. So what am I talking about? I don't know. Let's get back.

27:52

Way too many diversions here. Let's get back to it. Calvinist distortion. People are so hopelessly depraved.

27:59

It is impossible for them to have faith without God providing it first. God chooses to enlighten some, the elect, the rest he condemns.

28:09

OK, so these folks think that God is under some kind of obligation to grant grace.

28:24

So we love our sins. We love our rebellion. Look at the world around us.

28:31

I mean, wow. People love rebellion. It's happening all around us as we speak.

28:40

And so these people seem to think God is under some type of requirement to give grace to us and to free us from that slavery to sin.

28:52

But he's not. That's why that's why grace is grace. And I had to turn my phone to where it's allowing all the spam calls through right now, because I had to be able to hear from the hospital and stuff like that.

29:11

So what a pain. Anyway, so that is not what the

29:17

Bible teaches. We are the ones who love our rebellion. We're the ones who want to stay in our rebellion.

29:24

And yes, God has an elect people. He always has. I don't know how you read the

29:29

Bible and miss that. It is astonishing the redefinitions of the term elect that non -reformed people will offer just to avoid the idea that God would dare to be free in his giving of grace, because that's what it's all about.

29:53

I remember way, way back in Bible college, I had a professor who was not reformed.

30:00

I did not go. I went to a Southern Baptist school, so I didn't hear any debates about it at all.

30:08

But he got this one right very clearly. He said, when you think about it, there are only three options.

30:16

Either God can save no one. Or God can save everyone. Or God can save some.

30:26

And he said, in which of those three options can God's attributes be demonstrated?

30:37

If he doesn't save anyone, how can you ever see his love and his mercy? If he saves everyone, how can you ever see his wrath and his justice?

30:45

It's only in saving some that you can see the full range of God's attributes. And he was exactly on.

30:53

I think he was more reformed than he led on, to be perfectly honest with you. But being at a Southern Baptist school, a little bit dangerous.

31:02

It is true that people are unrighteous sinners and far below God's standard of holiness, Romans 323.

31:08

We deserve condemnation. We need a Savior. By his sovereign grace, God provided a

31:13

Savior, Romans 5 .8. We with childlike faith can believe in that Savior, Mark 10 .15.

31:20

So you're getting, again, the standard evangelical statement, but notice, provided, not actually saved.

31:30

That is one of the things that strikes people at first, when they first encounter

31:35

Reformed theology, because of the strength of the statement. We're saying Jesus didn't just provide salvation, that he actually saves.

31:42

We actually present a powerful Savior who saves, not someone who provides a way and then just hopes, like anything, that someone will take him up on the offer.

31:57

Go listen to the old George Bryson debate on that one. That topic came up more than once.

32:04

...on believing, become regenerated, saved by the power of Christ and the indwelling of the

32:10

Holy Spirit, Titus 3. So you bring about your own regeneration. So you're good enough to have saving faith and to do what's pleasing in God's sight, submit yourself to God's law, which says you should repent and believe.

32:30

All that Romans 8 says you can't do, but from this perspective, yes, you can do that.

32:36

And when you do that, then you're made spiritually alive.

32:41

So you do all the spiritual stuff, all this good spiritual stuff. You have spiritual desires and all the rest of the stuff.

32:47

Then you're made alive. Of course, it doesn't make any sense, but that's what people have been taught over and over again.

32:56

And you hear it over and over again. And so you run with it and you don't really think about, yeah, that doesn't really actually, that's not consistent.

33:06

And then there are the other people. And man, have I heard this enough times. Then there are the other people who say, well, you

33:14

Calvinists, you try to make things too consistent. And, you know, there may be a level of truthfulness to that out in the fringes someplace.

33:28

But the idea that the best formulation of God's truth is the most coherent one or the constant, you know, one of the reasons

33:39

I don't really engage in debate with Lutherans, to be perfectly honest with you, is their constant appeal to mystery, mystery, mystery, mystery.

33:50

Everything's a mystery when you try to push for consistency. Mystery, mystery, mystery. Okay. Five, Calvinist distortion.

33:59

God saves some. Those he elected will prove they are saved by bearing fruit, living godly lives.

34:07

Now, here's where it's going to get interesting. Because this is where this guy goes off from most of your

34:15

Arminian objections. And that is, this is the very dangerous doctrine of anti -lordship, quote -unquote free grace.

34:24

It's not free grace, it's cheap grace. But it's the Robert Wilkins stuff that we debated.

34:31

What was that, 2010? Maybe even been before that. It was, yeah,

34:36

I think it was 2010. Anyway, no repentance, no lordship. And it's understandable if you have the idea that God just throws the gospel out there and hopes people take advantage of it.

34:54

It's understandable that you would then take the idea of faith alone.

35:00

And once you separate faith from God's sovereign purposes, you separate faith from election, you separate faith from the sovereignty of the

35:09

Spirit in drawing people unto Christ, when you do all of that, you end up with a very disjointed system.

35:17

And honestly, the only way that I know of to maintain balance in Christian soteriology is the

35:25

Reformed understanding. That way you can have absolute free grace. God is sovereign in all that he does.

35:34

He is free in the salvation of his people to his own glory. And that it can be his decree that his people are to be conformed to the image of Christ.

35:44

And therefore that they are to bring forth good works. Ephesians 2, 8, 9, 10, that's what it's all about.

35:52

We are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works with which what?

35:57

God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. This is

36:03

God's ordination. This is God's decree, his sovereign choice.

36:10

If you don't have a sovereign choice, then you have to split all this stuff up. And if you want to maintain some emphasis upon grace being free, then you put it over here and then sanctification becomes some sort of little optional thing over there.

36:30

If you want to do it, fine. If not, whatever. It changes as you go along.

36:36

Works must accompany faith or that person is revealed to be a false convert, James 2, 17. The truth,

36:42

God saves all who believe, John 3, 16, Ephesians. Okay, God saves all who believe.

36:49

So there's no false faith. For these folks, there isn't.

36:58

For this particular group, you tip your hat to God once, you're on your way to heaven.

37:03

That's it. Since it's not a divine work, since it's not a fulfillment of a divine process, a divine purpose, then as long as you believe, even temporarily, even just for a moment, then you're saved.

37:25

It's so disjointed. It's so disconnected from what the scriptures teach.

37:31

It really, really is. It's sad to see this kind of thing, but it's quite common.

37:37

More common than you might believe. I mean, it's fully understandable why these folks really, really dislike

37:45

Reformed theology because it is so opposed to their mindset.

37:51

2, 8, and 9. Anyone who believes is eternally saved regardless of subsequent behavior,

37:57

Ephesians 2, 8, and 9. Okay, so there you have the worst kind of once -saved -always -saved stuff.

38:08

So you walk an aisle, you tip your hat toward God, you get your ticket punched, and that's it.

38:13

After that, it doesn't matter. You can become an atheist, a Buddhist, a

38:18

Muslim, it doesn't matter. You're saved, you got your ticket punched. Being conformed to the image of Christ, that's for super -disciples.

38:27

This is just so grossly unbiblical. I didn't even...

38:33

And this is what... Examples like this is what the film against once -saved -always -saved.

38:44

They would quote stuff like this and shoot at this and then turn around and shoot at the Calvinists.

38:51

And I do want to do Radio Free Geneva. I had planned on it on the film and respond to more of what it said.

38:59

I played a little bit when it first came out. On the trip out here, I listened to the whole thing. And there's some just really bad stuff in there.

39:08

They've even got open theists being interviewed for this thing. Open theists,

39:14

Pelagians, people who deny penal substitutionary atonement. Way, way, way too wide a range of people they interviewed for that film.

39:23

But this is a perspective that they would be going against as well.

39:31

Even though this guy's anti -reformed, they're anti -reformed. But this idea of...

39:38

It's always left me just wondering how in the world...

39:43

If you don't believe in a savior who can save perfectly, how do you believe this stuff?

39:50

How do you believe that it's all up to you and your free will to get yourself into salvation, but it's not up to your free will to get out of it again?

40:04

How does that work? How can you say everybody has the capacity and ability to get in?

40:15

To make that free will choice, do that right thing. And then once you make that point in time decision, now you're stuck.

40:30

You can't get out. That's all there is to it. You're eternally scared. Doesn't matter what your behavior, everything's forgiven all's well.

40:39

I don't know how you can read the New Testament and come up with this kind of stuff, but they do.

40:46

They're out there. And it's confusing. Not saved by works,

40:52

Titus 3 .5. Good works are done to honor God, Matthew 5 .16.

40:58

Not to save ourselves or prove we are saved. Sin in our lives brings negative consequences that we must bear.

41:05

Okay, so remember there's no overarching purpose of God here.

41:10

There's no decree. God isn't forming a body of little

41:16

Christs. We're being conformed to his image. We're supposed to be like him. We're supposed to have the mind of Christ.

41:23

All that stuff, who cares? That's for super disciples.

41:33

There is no overarching purpose that you can identify in this kind of theology.

41:41

We're not saving ourselves. No Reformed person believes that the works that I do add to the righteousness of Christ.

41:49

A lot of these guys don't even have an understanding of imputation, how any of that works, certainly union with Christ.

41:58

So much of the New Testament's teaching is lost on these guys because they're just focused on this one narrow unbiblical tradition that they've been taught.

42:11

And you just grab your Bible verses and throw them in there. But no one's saving themselves by their works.

42:18

We're not adding anything to Christ. The sad thing is these guys think that they are doing what the

42:26

Reformers were doing. That they're defending sola fide. No, they are not.

42:31

None of the Reformers believe what they believe by any stretch of the imagination. I suppose there's some of them that know that.

42:38

This distortion, faith is a precious gift from God, Ephesians 2, 8 and 9.

42:44

The truth, saving grace, salvation is the gift. Ephesians 2, 8, Romans 6 to 23, 2

42:50

Corinthians 9, 15. Faith is the act of believing. Calvinist distortion.

42:57

Christ died for a limited number of people. Okay, I'll have to remember that's the next thing.

43:04

So he's denying that saving faith is a gift from God. It's just the act of believing.

43:10

And anybody can do that, right? Anybody can do that. So the valley of the dry bones.

43:18

All those dry bones can just believe any time they want to. They can just rip up into living bodies all on their own.

43:27

That heart of stone can just do what's spiritually good. It's such a dilapidated view of the biblical understanding of what saving faith is.

43:47

You can keep quoting Ephesians 2, 8, 9 all you want. I can guarantee you what he's going to say is,

43:53

Oh, faith is feminine, and these are masculines, and this is a neuter.

44:02

I've talked to a lot of people who can't read Greek, who want to pretend they know what's going on with gender agreement in the various terms in Ephesians 2, 8.

44:12

Yeah, we've dealt with that many, many times before. The reality is that we are his workmanship, and everything that puts us into that situation.

44:23

As Paul said to the Corinthians, if you're in Christ Jesus, it's by his doing that you are in Christ Jesus.

44:29

He's the one that did it. All the glory and honor goes to him, not just for providing something that you then took advantage of, but in actually accomplishing that salvation.

44:42

It's all of him. So there's the next one going on in the atonement, which is what I was going to be preaching on, basically, in 15 minutes tonight, up in prior.

44:54

And I can't tell you how badly I feel about that. I hope

45:00

Derek has somebody at the church, just in case. And if somebody shows up tonight,

45:08

I'm going to feel really, really, really bad, but there you go. ...called the elect the truth.

45:14

Christ died for all. 1 John 2 to John 3, 16. Okay, we've all heard this before.

45:23

The vast majority of instances, these folks have no idea what we're talking about. They've never thought about the relationship of the purpose of the

45:31

Father, the accomplishment of the Son, the work of the Spirit. They don't think about the intercession of the high priest.

45:38

Who did the high priest intercede for? In regards to what offering was offered.

45:43

They don't even go there. They don't read anything that's been written, let alone try to get into the depth of a

45:53

John Owen, the death of death and the death of Christ or anything like that. They're just repeating what they've been told.

45:59

That's just sort of how it is, sadly. And I don't have time this evening to go back through all of that.

46:07

But the reality is that there is a perfect harmony and consistency between who the

46:14

Father elects to save, gives to the Son, who he dies in their place, union with Christ.

46:20

This system has no concept of union with Christ. Once you have universal atonement, you depersonalize the atonement.

46:31

Unless you're a universalist, to where everyone's going to be saved. These guys are not universalists.

46:36

And so you have to turn the atonement into something that is much less personal than it would be otherwise.

46:48

So there you go. Those who choose to believe are saved forever. Calvinist distortion.

46:54

Regeneration precedes faith. The truth, faith results in regeneration. Romans 10 .10.

47:00

Calvinist distortion. God condemns most. Okay. He just keeps throwing them out as if just citing a

47:08

Bible verse and not explaining it. We already talked about what regeneration is.

47:14

We've already given argumentation. We could look at 1

47:20

John 5 .1 as a direct text, indicating that those who are born from God are the ones who are believing.

47:34

That reality isn't quite as clear in English translations as it is in the original, so a vast majority of these folks.

47:41

It would be stunning to me if this fellow is Greek literate at all. Almost possible.

47:48

Being able to read Greek doesn't mean you're going to believe everything it says or see the whole picture. But there are certain aspects of things, especially how verbs relate to another and how faith relates to other things in the

48:02

New Testament. Let's just put it this way.

48:07

It's easier if all you're reading is a translation to be comfortable with your tradition.

48:14

How does that sound? I think that's probably what's going on there. Those people to hell, even if they claim they believe in Christ, they must be one of the elect.

48:25

The truth, man is condemned for rejecting Christ, John 3 .18, and not believing.

48:31

This is the unpardonable sin spoken of in Mark 3 .28 .30 and elsewhere. Calvinist distortion.

48:39

Okay, it's going by so fast. But that's weird. They're only condemned for their unbelief.

48:46

They're not condemned for their sins. Because Christ already paid for their sins?

48:53

That seems to be what this argument is. This is another one of the free grace things that sins are already dealt with in Jesus.

49:02

All you've got to do is believe. Your sins have already been forgiven. But the one sin he didn't atone for is unbelief, evidently.

49:13

You really, really wonder, do they do regular Bible study?

49:18

Do they ever just sit back and just read entire books and go, no, that doesn't sound like they're really saying what

49:24

I'm saying. There seems to be a much more holistic, full theology here.

49:30

But I'll just filter it through my stuff. Sadly, I think that is what generally happens with a lot of these guys.

49:37

Sovereign and determines everything. Even wickedness and evil. The truth, God is sovereign and allows things to occur and works everything together for his inscrutable purposes,

49:48

Ephesians. His inscrutable purposes? You mean he hasn't revealed what is inscrutable?

49:53

God allows things. Okay, so this is where these folks come apart.

50:01

They just collapse. If you actually get them into a debate or get them to actually sit down with an open

50:08

Bible, this is where the wheels fall off. And for many people who've come to understand

50:14

Reformed theology, this is what eventually got them. They may have been where this guy was, but once you find out who

50:22

God is, once you find out about his eternality, once you find out about his immutability, once you start reading

50:30

Isaiah, you know, and you start considering Psalm 135 .6,

50:36

he does whatever he pleases. Heaven's in the air. You read along with Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel chapter 4 after he's restored.

50:44

Even the pagan can figure out God is sovereign over all things. It's not just a matter of allowing this or allowing that.

50:52

He's accomplishing his purposes. That's what he's doing. You start realizing, wow,

50:58

I've been given a real shallow substitute here.

51:05

And, yeah, in many ways, that's exactly what we have been given in this form of evangelicalism.

51:14

It's 111. Calvinism as a concept is a distortion of true biblical truth.

51:20

Calvinism gains inroads to the Christian community by using guilt -shaming, virtue signaling, and groupthink.

51:26

This causes the person to feel fear, worry. You know, when

51:32

I first heard this, you got to realize I was reformed before social media came along, decades before it came along.

51:44

Well, okay. It sort of depends on when you consider social media, huh?

51:49

But anyway, and so it was not a cool thing.

51:55

There was no shaming. If anything, you were very obviously having to make a decision to sacrifice stuff.

52:05

I mean, I was at a megachurch starting a ministry. That's the best place in the world to be at, is to be at a megachurch and have all those resources behind you.

52:17

And I had to leave that place to be consistent with my reform commitments. It was long before social media.

52:24

There was no shaming. There was none of this stuff. It's just silly. But I had to think, could there be people today?

52:34

You know, we went through a period, and I think it's past. We went through a period where Calvinism was cool.

52:44

Now, I knew at the time, it's not going to last, and I warned at the time that you're only truly reformed if you are really committed to that and live it out.

52:58

You know, live it out in the emergency room. Live it out in the funeral home. Live it out in all of life.

53:08

And so I was never really taken in by all that stuff with all the it's really cool and all that kind of thing.

53:17

So I suppose maybe there are some people. I mean,

53:22

I certainly see formally reformed people. I do see that. And maybe they were taken in by some kind of silly peer pressure or something or this is cool or something like that.

53:35

I can't see how, if you actually read the

53:41

Institutes of the Christian Religion, you read anything in the Puritans, that you would find that cool in this world.

53:49

And it's not surprising at all to me that there would be people who would only be committed to those things on a surface level and for a short period of time.

53:57

And then they'll find the next cool thing and move on to what the next cool thing is.

54:02

The next cool thing may be apostasy. Who knows? But that's not how long -term reformed people become reformed.

54:13

Confusion, doubt, and hopelessness. This makes the individual vulnerable to the power of suggestion and provides an intoxicating elixir to the

54:22

Pharisee pastors who become wealthy as they lord their boastful holiness over the teeming masses, begging for some grace, desperate for...

54:31

What? What? I admit,

54:36

I got to this part and I'm like, okay, he's obviously reading it now. This is something he's written out.

54:43

And it's like, what? I sit here and think of, you know,

54:50

I was meeting with the pastor here today and their church is almost the exact same size as PRBC was when

54:59

I was there for almost 30 years. And it seems to be pretty average for Reformed Baptist churches.

55:08

And I'm just like, who is he even talking about here? I don't get any of this part.

55:14

This is like, you don't know much about us, do you? Some hope and longing for good news.

55:21

Of course, they don't get good news. They get turned from your sins. A misinterpretation of the word repent.

55:31

You just heard that. So this is what the anti -lordship stuff is about.

55:38

Is repentance is not turning from sins. Well, turning from sins is a part of repentance.

55:44

There's no question about that. Now, it is a turning toward Christ. It is a change of heart, is a change of attitude.

55:51

But once you say, but it doesn't involve repentance of sin, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

55:57

This is the cultic aspect of the Wilkins cheap grace type stuff.

56:06

Again, see the debate we did on the subject. It is very, very destructive of any meaningful

56:13

Christian life and any meaningful soteriology. Are met with messages that teach such things as, if you're still sinning, you are lost.

56:24

You are a false convert if you don't measure up, or you must bear the fruit of the spirit 24 -7, or you're not one of the elect.

56:35

Okay. All right. We can have meaningful conversations, not necessarily with him, because he doesn't have a background in the sovereignty of God and the purposes of God in salvation to have a meaningful discussion of how do you maintain a balance?

56:57

How do you, on the one side, for example, counsel believers to look away from themselves to Christ for their peace and their fulfillment in God, but at the same time, fulfill the command, examine your heart, see if you're in the faith.

57:13

There are people who just constantly stare at their navel, and then there are people who never examine themselves and never give consideration to the possibility of their own self -deception.

57:28

These folks, again, don't believe that there can be such a thing as false faith, false, false faith.

57:34

They don't believe that. But that also means they don't have any meaningful biblical definition of what true saving faith is or how it lives or how it acts, what sanctification is, what the relationship of the spirit to the

57:46

Christian life is. Nothing. It's gone because of a fundamental false idea about faith and how the

57:54

Christian life begins. It's highly destructive. It really is. Therefore, doomed to hell.

58:03

This causes the cycling emotions of doubt, fear, and longing for hope.

58:08

This creates a dilemma. They are doubtful. Now realize, what he thinks he's offering as hope is the ticket -punch theology where you had a faith moment, you're saved, don't worry about any of the rest of it.

58:26

And no one can live that. You have to stop reading your Bible to not see that all those passages, like Titus 3, 5, 6, 7, you read it, and if you read

58:41

Titus 2, you read about the grace that saves teaches us to deny ungodliness.

58:48

They want to talk about being saved by grace. They don't want to talk about what that grace does. They have a grossly unbiblical, imbalanced, disconnected, disjointed, scrambled eggs type of theology that, again, is highly destructive to anything.

59:05

Because they are Calvinists, and they are Calvinists because they are doubtful. There are many good and precious people caught up in this awful system.

59:13

The purpose of this channel is to let those people know they can get out of that wicked system and be free in Christ.

59:19

Yet many of these rank -and -file Calvinists, in a desperate attempt to prove they are one of the elect, defend the lie of Calvinism and move themselves further away from the very truth they think they're defending.

59:34

To me, it is sad. If you are ensnared in this false system of spiritual slavery,

59:40

I implore you to come out of it. Remember this, Galatians 5, 1, for freedom Christ has set us free.

59:47

Stand firm, therefore. Did he really? Did he really set us free?

59:54

That sounds like something he does. I thought he made freedom possible, and then we actualized it by our faith.

01:00:01

Or did Christ actually set us free? Because if Christ set us free, he's a powerful Savior, and does that mean he set free everyone?

01:00:09

Or he set free his elect people, those given to him by the Father, John 6? John 10, his sheep?

01:00:17

John 17? Yeah, we could go on and on and on. Yeah, that's the biblical teaching. And do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

01:00:25

2 Corinthians 3, 17. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the

01:00:31

Lord is, there is freedom. Galatians 5, 13. For you were called to freedom, brothers.

01:00:37

Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

01:00:43

1 Peter 2, 16. Live as peace. You don't think that's part of what

01:00:48

God's purpose for all believers is? Through love serve one another? Glorify Christ?

01:00:53

You see how this is all part of what God is accomplishing? Not simply making possible? How do they not hear these things?

01:01:00

How do they not hear themselves contradicting themselves? Really frightening to even contemplate.

01:01:07

How can you read these words and not stop and go, wait a minute, I just said something different than that.

01:01:13

People who are free, not using your freedom as a cover -up for evil, but living as servants of God. John 8, 36.

01:01:20

So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. If the

01:01:25

Son sets you free, you've told us you set yourself free.

01:01:33

You're the one that does it. Jesus makes it available. He doesn't set anybody free. He just makes it available.

01:01:40

Or if you want to say, he set everybody free, and now you've got to actuate that by your faith.

01:01:46

Whatever it is, you don't have a Savior who actually sets you free. Don't you see how you're using words in different ways?

01:01:57

James 1, 25. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets, but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

01:02:07

John 8, 32. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Okay, he must have given the quote before that.

01:02:15

But these free grace guys have completely different interpretations of James, because James is death on their system, because James specifically talks about false faith.

01:02:28

Can that faith save him? Answer, no. A said faith only, which is what they say saves, cannot save him.

01:02:36

That's what James says. So they have to come up with, well, yes, actually, you know, if it's a dead faith, that means it was once a live faith.

01:02:44

And it's, wow. Please, I implore you once again, please come away from Calvinism, reform theology.

01:02:51

Determinism, it's all the same. It's Calvinism anyway. Please come out of that damnable system and be free in Christ. Thanks for watching.

01:02:59

Calvinism is a religious cult. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you very much. All right. So there's

01:03:06

Calvinist distortions, but they weren't actually Calvinist distortions. They were misunderstandings on this poor fellow's part, and we can hope he will be the one who will come out of the errors that he has there.

01:03:23

I'm going to do something, and you all will understand why. I'm going to take a brief break.

01:03:31

And we're going to continue. We've got a great stream going right now, and there's been no cash or anything like that.

01:03:38

So it's doing well. So we're going to take a couple minutes, and what I'm going to do is

01:03:45

I'm going to put the splash screen up, and I'm going to play some music for you. Now, the thought crossed my mind, you know, what music would

01:03:52

I play that won't get our video taken down because AI scans everything you put up on YouTube, and if you put anything up there that is copywritten material, it doesn't matter if it's more than 30 seconds, you're going to get dinged, and it's going to cause a problem.

01:04:14

And then I realized what I can do. And so I can guarantee you that I have the right to use this music.

01:04:25

I'll tell you about it when we come back. Sorry. There we go.

01:06:55

I knew I'd forget something. Mute that, mute that. There we go. Sorry about that.

01:07:02

That was my mom. Sorry for the – those of you who read lips understood what I just said. Anyway, let's see, which one of these two?

01:07:12

Testing, testing. Yeah, that's the one. Test, test, test.

01:07:18

There we go. Got to get the camera and the microphone, the same thing. I'm going to go crazy.

01:07:25

Anyway, that was my mom, and she was a wonderful pianist and organist.

01:07:31

I have many memories of her. Well, the night

01:07:37

I made my profession of faith as a very, very, very, very young person, I could look over at the piano and see my mom weeping at the piano because she was playing that, and all the stuff that she played for at the various churches we were at, the

01:07:56

Christmas stuff and the Easter stuff and all that stuff. So she died in 2010 and probably about six, seven years before that, my dad recorded her playing piano and organ, and I have that in my iTunes library.

01:08:10

So I know that it's perfectly fine for me to play that.

01:08:17

So, all right, sorry about that. I told you I'd make mistakes, and I did.

01:08:24

So my apologies about that. All right, now, we press on. I'm not sure how long

01:08:32

I can press on, but I promised to talk about what Jason Brett and Al Garza said when they finally got around.

01:08:40

For those of you who didn't see the last program, Jason Brett, who I debated on the intention and audience of the atonement in Tullahoma a few months ago, had promised to provide an exegesis of Hebrews 7, 25, because he wouldn't provide one in the debate, even though it was one of the central texts that I used to present my argument.

01:09:05

So I'm not sure why you'd do a debate if you're not given an interpretation of the text. They've tried to do the, well, exegesis is much more than that.

01:09:12

It's just all baloney, to be perfectly honest with you. Everybody knows what I was asking. Everybody knows why someone should have been able to provide it.

01:09:20

That's all there is to it. So, anyway, this is what was posted.

01:09:26

It's an hour and almost an hour and 50 minutes long, I believe. And as I mentioned in the last program, it covers everything but the kitchen sink.

01:09:37

It goes all over the place. What it doesn't do is tell you what

01:09:44

Hebrews 7, 24 through 25 actually means. And I got the feeling, to be honest with you, that Dr.

01:09:52

Garza kept saying, well, you know, he's got his system, and so he's reading it into the text here and stuff like that.

01:09:58

And I'm like, okay, you tell us what the text means.

01:10:04

Tell us. You have to be able to open the word and say, this is the consistent meaning in this text, in this book, in this author, in the

01:10:18

New Testament, in the Bible. I've studied hermeneutics. I've taught hermeneutics.

01:10:24

I understand the process. I have just as much training in biblical languages as Dr.

01:10:30

Garza has and just as much experience and have written a whole lot more that's at least widely published than he has.

01:10:38

So I get it. Simply going over that stuff over and over again doesn't accomplish anything.

01:10:44

Tell us what the text actually says. If you say, well,

01:10:49

I need more than 30 seconds. Okay, fine, fine. Take more time.

01:10:55

You guys had almost two hours, and you still didn't tell us. You didn't give us a direct interpretation that answers the question.

01:11:05

And what was the question? Let me remind everybody what the question is before we take a look at this, okay?

01:11:13

The question, I've got some stuff up here from looking at social media.

01:11:22

Let me get the font large enough here so that we're, all right.

01:11:28

The question is this. But Jesus, on the other hand, because he continues forever, holds his priesthood permanently.

01:11:43

Therefore, he is able, dunatai, also to save, sodzain, aista panteles, forever or completely, to the uttermost.

01:12:01

Those drawing near or coming through him to God, specific people.

01:12:10

Why? Always living, and then you've got aista with an infinitive. To make intercession, huper alton, in behalf of them.

01:12:20

Who is the them, those drawing nigh unto God through him, specific group. So, I asked

01:12:28

Jason Breda, what does the last part of the verse, because he always lives to make intercession for them, how is that related to his ability to save completely?

01:12:43

Okay? Now, I think that is a necessary, obvious question.

01:12:54

Unless you're going to say, well, we can't tell. We don't know. It's too obscure. No, it's not.

01:13:00

It's central to the argument of Hebrews. If you can't answer this question, you shouldn't be teaching the

01:13:05

Bible to anybody. Okay? That's all there is to it. So, what did we get?

01:13:14

Well, we got, like I said, stuff about John 6, and we got all this stuff, rather than what should have been given right at the beginning.

01:13:25

Give it to us at the beginning. You can talk about all the rest of the stuff after that. Tell us the answer to the issue.

01:13:32

We didn't get that. So, like I said, it's an hour and 49,

01:13:39

I think it's right at an hour and 50 minutes long. So, nearly two hours worth of stuff.

01:13:46

If you can't explain to someone in two hours what that text means, y 'all aren't going to do too well, because us

01:13:56

Reformed folks can. You know? We believe that in the perspicuity of Scripture, we believe that you can explain it.

01:14:05

We believe that Christ's sheep will hear His voice. That's our confidence. That's our confidence. So, I'm going to...

01:14:14

What I'm doing right now is... I've never done this before, but I'm letting Rich know this. I've just turned the monitor down low enough.

01:14:22

I can still hear it, but it doesn't echo back on me. Real badly, anyways.

01:14:28

And so, that's how I'm doing this right now. It works. Gotta find a little better way for me to hear stuff without having to hit three buttons before I can comment.

01:14:39

But we're working on it. We're getting it done. And it's functional. That's the important part. So, I picked up...

01:14:47

It's an hour and 10 minutes. 109 .51, if you download it.

01:14:56

And this is where Jace is like, so, let's talk about the subject of Hebrews 7.

01:15:04

And I can't find a way to get this program to play it faster. And I didn't want to mess with the other program that we've had trouble with getting it to work a couple times.

01:15:14

So, we'll just go with it the best way we can here. Yeah. So, when we look at, like, forms of thought, do you see

01:15:25

Chapter 7 as a good starting point? Chapters and verses, obviously, they're not authoritative. But from your perspective, where does this shift happen from where we're now in the context of 725?

01:15:39

I think, yeah, I think since there obviously wasn't a chapter and verses, and sometimes chapter and verses can actually not be actively dividing correctly.

01:15:50

Sometimes it ends where it should be beginning on certain verses. But I think dealing, if I understand your question correctly,

01:15:58

I think dealing with the priestly aspect, is that what you're referring to, of the atonement? Right. Looking into going to maybe even

01:16:07

Chapter 7, looking at verse 18, getting on about the

01:16:13

Torah and the law, and drawing evidences in the hope through which we draw near to God.

01:16:19

Now, in the Greek, it also is expressed this way in other writings and other parts as drawing near in worship, not drawing near, like, for salvation, but drawing near as in worship, to bring

01:16:31

God in worship and praise. And that's kind of what the coming of nearing is sometimes even looked at as, is therefore

01:16:38

He's able to save forever those who draw near or come near to God, in the sense of intercession, those who seek help from Him, those who come to Him for that way.

01:16:47

So I think you could start just before that and then bring it. Okay.

01:16:54

It was very difficult to understand. There seemed to have been some assertions in this presentation that what you actually have in Hebrews is that you actually have people who claim to be

01:17:11

Christians who were still involved in temple worship. There didn't seem to be an understanding that the, you know, the great sin referred to in Hebrews, I think in 1

01:17:30

John, is offering sacrifice, is going back to the old ways.

01:17:42

And that this was, that the only way you could be allowed to do that, if you had claimed to be a

01:17:47

Christian, would be to curse Christ. So the idea that He's actually writing to people who were claimed to be

01:17:55

Christians, but they were still involved in temple worship is just way out there.

01:18:00

I mean, you know, maybe that, like I said, I don't know if this, if Dr. Garza was the source of his

01:18:07

Romans is written to Jewish Christians until chapter 11 stuff, I don't know.

01:18:13

That, again, completely outside the mainstream of anything, I find it absurd. I can't believe anyone could ever defend it in debate.

01:18:22

The same way as doing the Ephesians one thing is only about the apostles and it's not about anybody else.

01:18:28

And, you know, all these, let's go way outside of what anyone has ever understood these texts to be talking about.

01:18:35

Kind of, kind of things, you know, when reform, when anti -reform people have to do that, eventually you start getting the idea,

01:18:42

I wonder if they're doing that because they have to. And the answer is, yeah, they have to.

01:18:47

That's that is the problem. So I'm not sure, but there were some really weird things being said.

01:18:54

But what was just said was, well, there's different kinds of drawing near to God.

01:19:02

And I'm like, OK, so. In Hebrews chapter seven.

01:19:11

It's not talking that one of the things that they do is they try to say.

01:19:17

And completely misrepresent me in the process that what I'm emphasizing is who these are, who are drawing near to God.

01:19:25

That's a side issue. I mentioned that in a book because I've had people make it an argument. But that was not my emphasis in the debate.

01:19:36

Hebrews 7 .25 is talking about Christ's ability to say,

01:19:46

I am reformed. I believe, excuse me, I believe God has the ability to save perfectly.

01:19:54

Father, Son and Spirit together do so perfectly. And the first assertion.

01:20:03

Of the. Text is. So design, then it's able to say he is able to save ice top on the left completely.

01:20:17

So the focus is on Christ, the focus is never leaves Christ. The focus is completely upon his capacity, his ability, and if they have.

01:20:28

Read me or listen to me and think that I'm trying to shoehorn the elect into the verse.

01:20:35

You've completely blown it. You have no idea what I'm talking about. None. So so they're the ones that are that are doing well.

01:20:49

You know, maybe it's coming to God and worship is not coming to God and praise. I think the text is about the ability of Christ.

01:21:02

The text is about the ability of Christ. What what can he do?

01:21:08

How is this related to the concept of priesthood? As this related, the concept of intercession, that's what this is all about.

01:21:16

We need to hear from you a clear. Unambiguous.

01:21:22

And since you guys don't like the term exegesis interpretation. Of what is being said in this text.

01:21:33

Don't worry about all the rest of that stuff. Answer what the text is referring to. OK, that's that's what needs to be done here.

01:21:41

And we're not we're not we're not getting that, unfortunately. Down 23, 24, 25, that that now coming into the new covenant and what that means and so forth.

01:21:53

And then what the sacrifices are are not able to do anymore. So I think, yeah, you could start a little bit before 27 and then or sorry, 25 and then work your way down.

01:22:03

I don't think the main point of the text. And correct me if I'm wrong, is what

01:22:08

James brings out in his interpretive fashion is those who draw near. I don't think that's the main focus on.

01:22:16

Jason. What are you talking about?

01:22:23

What are you talking about? That's not what I brought up in the debate. That's not what I've ever I've preached on this text.

01:22:29

I've debated this text. I've written in this text. One time. In the

01:22:35

Potter's Freedom, I deal with objections from other people. That doesn't make that my focus. I never said it.

01:22:41

Jason, you don't have any idea. What are you saying? You've not heard the question.

01:22:47

I don't know how to get you to hear it. Everybody else can hear it. Everybody at the debate heard it.

01:22:52

Well, except for a few people that came with their own prejudices. But I. This was very frustrating to hear this.

01:23:02

My emphasis consistently has been this text teaches

01:23:08

Jesus's ability to save completely. He is directly connected to his indestructible life because he now ever lives to make intercession for them.

01:23:23

Hebrews 6. I preached on this just recently. He is our forerunner. He's gone into the holy places.

01:23:30

In our place to represent us in the presence of God. He is that anchor of the faith that goes through the veil.

01:23:40

I don't know how to make it any clearer. I really don't. And I don't know why you're not hearing it.

01:23:47

I. You know, my prayer is you'll start hearing it. But you're not you're not hearing it now.

01:23:53

The text is, you know, from a salvific standpoint. Right. I think it's the focus is

01:24:01

Jesus is the better high priest. And and yes, we do need it.

01:24:07

We can come to Jesus because of what he has done. And I think the point is that those.

01:24:13

What do you mean? Of course, he's a greater high priest. We're talking about the priesthood here.

01:24:19

We're talking about he goes into the heavenly realms. The high priest is prevented by death and continuing.

01:24:28

He's only in the tabernacle. He's not in the heavenly realms. There's all these contrasts that are made.

01:24:34

Better covenant, better high priest. Yeah, that's true. But in this text, the issue is his ability to save.

01:24:43

Did you just say it's not about? Salvation. What is so dying mean?

01:24:49

I. It's really hard. It would have been. Can you,

01:24:57

Jason, by yourself without bring somebody else in? Can you walk through this text?

01:25:05

I know you can't walk through it in the original languages. Leave that aside. Use whatever

01:25:11

ESV, NASB, LSB, whatever you like. Walk through it and explain how the language is consistent.

01:25:24

What is the relationship between Christ's intercession and his ability to save completely?

01:25:32

Because your theology has a chasm between the two. You have.

01:25:40

Do you have Christ interceding? Who's Christ interceding for? Who is

01:25:47

Christ interceding for? And what you what I think you know, or at least those who are trying to help you prepare this, they know.

01:25:55

There is an absolute connection. Between the intercessory work of the high priest and the sacrificial work of the high priest.

01:26:03

It's the same audience. So if the intercessory work is for a specific people, then the sacrifice is for a specific people.

01:26:14

The intercession results in their perfect salvation. The sacrifice results in their perfect salvation.

01:26:20

You have particular redemption. You've got to try to avoid that because you don't believe it. You don't believe it.

01:26:28

Here's the problem. The scripture teaches it.

01:26:34

And I can simply trust the Spirit of God to cause Christ's sheep to see the truth about Christ in Christ's word.

01:26:44

If someone wants to reject that, I can go about it.

01:26:50

But I can have confidence that Christ's sheep will hear his voice.

01:26:56

Who come as we as we see in verse 25, he's able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through him.

01:27:05

And and this is where I think the the Calvinist inserts. Well, the only the question was.

01:27:17

How does the end of the verse relate to the beginning of the verse? You just said he's able to save those drawn near God perfectly.

01:27:28

Because he ever lives to make intercession for them. Right. So what does that mean?

01:27:37

What does that mean? Reason they come to God as like you mentioned, what James does is they have to go to other portions of scripture like John six

01:27:46

Romans eight Romans eight. OK, what they're talking about again, they're not talking about the debate.

01:27:54

They're talking about the fact that. In I believe it was the potter's freedom.

01:28:00

And I don't even remember if it was in the text or in a footnote. I dealt with the objection.

01:28:07

That people have made and you can find it in numerous places. Where they try to insert.

01:28:15

Into the ability to come to God through him some kind of capacity.

01:28:21

And I demonstrated that this is goes against the overall biblical teaching. That's all

01:28:26

I was doing. I wasn't making it a part of my argumentation. I didn't make it a part of the argumentation of the debate.

01:28:32

It is a canard. It's a side issue. And it just again. You either have to be dishonest or you're just not listening.

01:28:41

I'm not saying he's being dishonest. So he's just not listening. Just not hearing. This is this is a canard.

01:28:47

This is we're not going to answer the actual question. We're going to throw all the rest of this stuff out. And the fact of the matter is these guys have an anthropology.

01:28:55

Just because they're pretending they don't. Well we don't have the system. We're not reading anything into this. Baloney. You bet you do.

01:29:03

You bet you do. That's why if you will put out a positive interpretation.

01:29:10

I'll show you how your system is determining what you're saying. It'll be easy to do.

01:29:21

So. Yeah. Anyway. To say they can only come to God if they've been granted regeneration so that they now can believe.

01:29:29

Yeah. They're giving grace to regenerate. Right. Yeah. Right. And obviously I just that's nowhere in this explicit text.

01:29:37

So we might need to hop over to John and also to Romans just so people that maybe are maybe back and forth one foot in one foot out.

01:29:47

They don't they don't know how to do this. Right. Might be good to hop over there. Yeah.

01:29:53

And I think you're right. There's no reason in the text here. I. I just guess they can't answer the question.

01:30:05

Or refuse to answer the question. I don't get it. What's the relationship.

01:30:12

Once you establish a relationship your position will collapse. So it's just like well let's go someplace else.

01:30:20

And. You know as much as I would like to go those other places. That wasn't my argumentation.

01:30:28

And. I can. Most assuredly deal with John 6. In fact

01:30:34

I did recently. What was. Oh yeah. And I can go to Romans 8.

01:30:39

I mean these are great places to go. So here's what I'll do.

01:30:46

Rather than spend more time we're already at an hour and a half. Well with a little break and a little bit of silence in there.

01:30:53

Here's what I'd like to do. With all due respect to Jason. You're you're you've gotten into some areas that you're just you're not prepared to deal with.

01:31:08

And the very fact that instead of offering your own interpretation you had to go with somebody else.

01:31:14

Demonstrates it. So Dr. Garza. When I get back from this trip.

01:31:23

I'm going to be facing surgery. I don't know how long that's going to take.

01:31:28

I don't know what kind of results we're going to get. I don't know right now. But let's.

01:31:34

Say the Lord is gracious to me. And it's one surgery and it's done. And you know.

01:31:41

I had this problem seven and a half years ago. So I'll be. In my 70s. If I get that amount of time again.

01:31:49

Who knows. So. But. We have a we have a large platform here.

01:31:59

And so what I'm doing is I am inviting you. What we'll do.

01:32:05

Is we will put. We will basically. Do this.

01:32:12

I will. Go in the wrong direction. We will put the text.

01:32:18

On the screen. Sort of like. Sort of like this.

01:32:27

And. You and I. Will give.

01:32:34

An original language based. Interpretation you call it what you want.

01:32:39

I mean I thought you guys just got really sort of goofy. With all the stuff that you did call it what you want.

01:32:47

I will explain. To people. What the argument. Of Hebrews chapter seven and if you want.

01:32:58

How about. We can start. You're an OT guy. We can.

01:33:04

We can start. With. You know Psalm 110.

01:33:10

If you want. 720. Any. Where do we want to start up here in chapter seven.

01:33:24

We'll choose the place but. We will have to include. 724.

01:33:30

And 25. We can go down to. And go down to chapter eight.

01:33:37

If we want to. Whatever. But we will deal with the text.

01:33:43

Directly. And. Each one of us will have.

01:33:49

What. 15 minutes. Maybe. To make an opening presentation on the meaning of the text.

01:33:57

And then. We would need to go into. Cross -examination.

01:34:04

And. The first one who presented. Would have to answer questions from.

01:34:12

The other side. Why did you say this about this? What does this form mean to you? What is the syntactical category of this participle?

01:34:24

And then reverse. So the other side has to answer the same questions. And then maybe.

01:34:31

Ten minute. Conclusions. After that. So let's do

01:34:38

Hebrew seven. If you want to do John six. Romans eight. You want. You really want to go to Romans eight? You want to do the golden chain?

01:34:49

Okay. I mean talk about. Seating the ground but. Okay. That's that's certainly.

01:34:57

Useful. And helpful. Let's do it. Let's see.

01:35:03

Who can handle the text. Consistently. Without running off over here. Running off over there. Who can.

01:35:11

Handle the text. Consistently. There's my invitation. So. Let me know what you think.

01:35:19

Easy to get hold of on. In social media. You can. Give rich call.

01:35:25

And provide information. As to how we can. Set something like this up. And. We can.

01:35:31

It would probably be best. To do it in our big studio. In Phoenix. When I am.

01:35:37

Physically able to do so. Anyways. Because that way. We've got the big screen.

01:35:42

So we can use that. To look at. And. Put you up on. Big screen next to it.

01:35:50

And. Make it work out. So I think that's. I think that's the best way. To handle this. So. I'll be looking forward to hearing from you.

01:35:58

As to when you. You'd be willing to. Engage first with. We need to do

01:36:03

Hebrew seven. That was what this was. Supposed to be about. That's what the issue.

01:36:08

In the debate was about. You. Your emphasis seems to be.

01:36:15

In Hebrew language issues. I would want to. Find out from you.

01:36:21

If you think. That there is a Hebrew language. Original to refer to.

01:36:27

I don't believe so. I believe Paul preached. Hebrews. To the

01:36:33

Hebrew believers. But the first time that it came into. Existence as a written text.

01:36:40

Is what we have. And it was written. In a very classical form of Greek.

01:36:46

Luke is. Luke acts in Hebrews. Same form of Greek.

01:36:51

Very most classical Greek in the New Testament. It's it's barely coin a.

01:36:58

It has such a strong. Classical emphasis to it. So. That's what

01:37:03

I think we should do. And that's my invitation. To you to. To do that.

01:37:09

And we will. We will see what you what you have to say. About that. So. Let me see here.

01:37:18

There it is. So there you go. We've done. An hour and 40 minutes.

01:37:26

On the road. Within. I don't know 36 hours of surgery. You can't question my commitment.

01:37:36

Only one major boo -boo. When I forgot to. Go back to the proper microphone.

01:37:43

But. Other than that. Not too bad. I still have to play. The closing to the radio free

01:37:49

Geneva. And make that work. We will. We will see. How that. How that will go.

01:37:56

But anyway. Certainly not. Tomorrow. I could see a possibility of a

01:38:04

Saturday type thing. But. Early next week. Lord willing.

01:38:11

Again. All dependent upon. Here. In Mount Pleasant. We've got. We've got great self -service.

01:38:18

So. And we don't have Starlink right now. Next trip. We will have that.

01:38:24

Option. But we will try to do. Some more programs. Unless. I'm struggling.

01:38:31

With the. Driving part. With the. Sitting for hours. Stuff. And. Having foreign.

01:38:38

Objects. In my body. Which I'm feeling right now. There's no. No twist about it. That stint is.

01:38:46

Is definitely there. Yay. There are some people in the audience. Going. Good.

01:38:51

I hope it hurts. I get it. All right. Anyways. Thanks for watching.

01:38:57

We're going to see if we can't. Get this thing. To work. I'll get. I'll. I'll switch it over for you.

01:39:03

Once it gets rolling here. And. We'll see you next time. On. The dividing line.