MSL: May 6, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live, and today's date is

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May 6th, 2024, and you can probably tell if you've been listening to me for a while,

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I have a scratchy voice. I had a head cold, still do, working on this head cold that just knocked me down last week.

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So I've had it about five, six days. It's one of those things. I usually get it about once a year, just what it is, so good enough to do the show today.

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But Thursday and Friday it was out, and that was because I could hardly talk. So my voice was like this, and then coughing constantly, you know, that's what it was.

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So I just watched TV and fell asleep constantly. Oh, that's just how it is sometimes.

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And so please excuse my sniffles occasionally, and I try and cough and hit the cough button.

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But hey, I'm back, and may the Lord just bless this effort. If you have a question or a comment, all you have to do is give me a call at 877 -207 -2276.

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And you can just get in line, because we have three open lines, and we have one caller waiting.

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Also, if you want to email me, you can do that as well. All you have to do is direct an email to info at karm .org,

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info at karm .org. In the subject line, just put in a radio question, radio comment, something like that.

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And we often get to them. So there you go. All right, let's just jump on the air. Let's go to Juanita from Michigan.

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Juanita, welcome. You're on the air. Hey there, Matt. Thank you. I still was a little confused by the

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Matthew 27, 46 scripture. My God, why have you forsaken me?

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And I'm trying to zero down on what exactly you say that there was an effect, even though we don't know the extent and nature of the effect upon Christ in relation to God the

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Father. So I was, you know, just, you said it wasn't,

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He wasn't separated from God, or He wasn't abandoned by God, or God didn't turn away from Him.

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So what do you think was the effect on Christ when

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He became sin? I don't know. The Bible doesn't tell us, so I can't tell you.

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It's just as simple as that. Don't know what happened. But he was quoting Psalm 22, verse 1.

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Would it be fair to examine what the effect of sin is?

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The effect of sin on people? On nature? The effect of sin in relation to God, right, right, like, would that be a fair examination if when

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Jesus became sin, and He wanted to know why He was forsaken, could we maybe logically examine the effect of sin?

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Logic would be something that we'd have to reach for, because we don't know how much of what we'd be saying is logical.

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He's quoting Psalm 22, verse 1, written a thousand B .C., a prophetic word on His crucifixion.

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So we don't know if it was a forsaken thing, and that there's no Trinitarian communion that's broken, but there's a fellowship effect of some sort.

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And when it says He became sin, it doesn't mean His nature became sin, but it means that sin was imputed to Him, 1

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Peter 2 .24, and that's what's going on. Well, His nature, yeah, but I understand that His, you're saying that His nature was divine.

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But my question is, if we examine the effect of sin in relation to God, would that be a fair way to see what maybe the effect was on Jesus when

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He became sin? You're breaking up a lot, and I can get most of what you're saying, but I don't know if you can tell, but you are breaking up.

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It's like every other syllable is just a pop, and it's hard to understand you. But I know you deny

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Jesus is God in flesh, right? Sure, yes.

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It doesn't say that God became a man, it says that His Word became flesh. You're really, tell you what, seriously, why don't you call right back, because there's nobody waiting, and your connection is bad.

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It's hard. Okay, just call right back, and then we'll get you right back on, okay? Thank you. All right.

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Yeah, I try to listen to her, and she denies that Jesus is God in flesh, so she's looking for things to justify that assumption, so I'll have a discussion with her, we'll see how it goes.

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I would ask that all of you out there would pray, and ask the Lord to open up her heart and her mind, and give me wisdom on what to say and how to say it as well, because we need that truth that comes from God for redemptive work.

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All right, let's see, the producer will do his switch flipping, and stuff like that he's got to do when a caller comes in, so hopefully the call, he might be talking to her and saying it's still broken up,

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I don't know, and that's okay too, because he'll just tell her to call back or whatever it is. So he's a good guy.

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All right, so hey look, and wait for that to work through, so if you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276,

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Juanita, are you still there? Yeah, but I'll just call back another day, Matt, it sounds like we have a bad connection today.

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Okay. It's interesting, yeah, it's definitely, you're breaking up, in fact now

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I'm curious to know if it's going to be anybody else who calls, because you're the first caller, so maybe it's just something on our end.

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Yeah, I'll call back another day, thank you very much, take care of yourself, bye -bye.

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Thank you, okay, bye. Yeah, this is one of the things, the deity of Christ is one of the things

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I defend constantly, and so I do a lot of online discussions in Discord, in Clubhouse, an older one

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I used to do a lot, not so much anymore as PalTalk, sometimes I'll get into Facebook and some other areas,

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I want to get into more areas where I can just do more discussions. But the deity of Christ is an essential doctrine of the

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Christian faith, and there are many people who deny that Jesus has two natures, he's both

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God and man, they deny it. And in so doing, in their denial, they're denying who

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Christ is, and they're also denying who God is. Now they're going to say they don't do that, they don't deny who

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Christ really is, they don't understand him properly, I'd say no they don't. Jesus of course is the

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Word made flesh, God in flesh, and all people who deny that Jesus is

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God in flesh, I mean openly, knowingly deny it, their end is the eternal lake of fire.

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When I say that, I don't say it with malicious intent or name -calling, it's pastoral information,

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I'm informing you. Because the only one who can save us from our sins is God. What the

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Jehovah's Witnesses do, what the Christadelphians do, what others do, Unitarians, there's varying degrees of this, but what they'll often do is say, well

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Jesus is a great man, but he's not God in flesh, and he paid for our sins, and I'm going to give an illustration why that doesn't work, but let's say he paid for our sins, and that you trust in what he did and God has opened the way for you to achieve salvation.

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So when it says he opens the way, Adam closed the door, Jesus opened the door, that's kind of a thing, because he's not

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God in flesh, he's just the equivalent to Adam's failure, his success.

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Like I said, not every Unitarian believes this, but there are variations of it, but I'm just shooting down the middle of it all.

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So the only one who can forgive us of our sins is God, and the only one who can undo the damage is

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God. So, here's the thing, when we break the law of God, it makes us a criminal, when we break the law, you're a criminal, okay?

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There are different degrees of being a criminal, and the holy righteous judge must deal with the criminals, if he lets them go free, then he's not a righteous judge,

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God must deal with the criminals. But in the economy of God's work, since he is the one who's offended, and he's the lawgiver, he can step into our place and not ignore the law, and then he becomes one of us, our offense is against him, and so he becomes one of us, so that he can do what we can't.

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An illustration of this kind of a thing is with the lamp analogy, which I read years ago in a little pamphlet, never forgot it,

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I've adapted it here and there, but I forgot where I got this from, but it was a great analogy, and if my wife and I come over to your house, and you have a lamp that you really like, and I break it, whether on purpose or accident, whatever, it just, it happens, though in real life

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I'd say, hey I'm sorry, let me replace it, but this is an illustration about forgiveness and who pays.

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So, I break your lamp, and you say, Matt, I forgive you for breaking the lamp, now pay me $10 for it.

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Is it true forgiveness when you require payment for that of which you have forgiven?

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The answer is no. That's not what forgiveness is, to require payment also. So my wife is sitting there, and you say,

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Mrs. Slick, Matt broke my lamp, I want you to pay for it. I forgive him, but you pay the debt.

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Now she had nothing to do with breaking the lamp, I broke it, and the person forgave me.

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So when that person goes to someone else, not involved with the offense, like my wife, and says, you need to pay,

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I forgive him, but you pay, well that's not forgiveness. That's not forgiveness, to require payment from someone else, not involved in the offense.

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In fact, it's wrong. So in true forgiveness, who's left to pay for the replacement of the lamp?

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Well, the offended party. Because the offended party is the one who forgives, and the offended party is the one who makes things right, by forgiving.

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And since the lamp's got to be replaced, the law's got to be satisfied, the lamp's got to be replaced, then he takes care of it.

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He says, no, I forgive you, don't worry about it. And this is what true forgiveness is, and it's the true nature of love.

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It works this way with our children as well. We parents know how our kids are.

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And how many times, oh man, how many times we bail our kids out in different ways, and it costs us.

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Because it's what we do, we're loving, we're kind. And we take the burden upon ourselves for their errors and mistakes.

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We do that. It's like the nature of God. In Unitarianism, what they're doing is saying that God's offended by your sin, but Jesus will take care of your sin, but he's not

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God. He's someone else, he's a bystander. He's not the one who committed the offense, he's not the one involved with it at all.

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It's like transferring the debt of the lamp to my wife. Man, broke it, you pay for it. What? That's not right.

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That's what they're doing. And it's not right. In true Christianity, the one who's offended is the one who has to pay, because we can't.

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We're not capable of it, because we've offended an infinitely holy God. And we're finite and sinful.

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We can't undo the damage against an infinitely holy God. The only one who can is himself. So he does it.

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He becomes one of us, and all who trust in him will be saved, and all who deny that he's

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God in flesh, deny the sufficiency of the atoning work, deny the love of God, deny the sacrifice of God, and for that, they'll go to eternal damnation.

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This is the truth that needs to be proclaimed and understood by those people who deny who Christ is.

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It's not a pleasant message, but truth often is not pleasant. Let's get to Ron from Wake Forest, North Carolina.

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Ron, welcome. You're on the air. We've got a break coming up here pretty quickly, but oh, there it is. Right there is the music.

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So I'm going to pay attention to my clock better. Hey, Ron, hold on. We'll be right back after these messages, buddy.

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And we'll get right back to him if you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

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All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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Ron, sorry about that, Ron. Bad timing there, but now you're back on the air. No problem.

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No problem. I've got a quick question. Of course, I believe like you do about women not being pastors.

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But how do you explain that verse? You know, I think it's 1 Timothy chapter 2. I think it's either 13 or 14.

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You know where Paul says you don't allow a woman to have authority over a man. How would you explain that? Yeah, it's 1

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Timothy 2, 12, and 13. I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but it remains quiet.

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For it was Adam who was first created, then Eve. So the word quiet there is hesougia in the Greek. It does not mean absolute silence like the word sigao does.

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You can be more hesougia. You can be more quiet, and that's what it is in that context.

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So you're in the issue of exercising anything that has authority -laden work in the church.

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Women are to be quiet about that or not. That's not their place. And then it's not cultural because it was

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Paul ties it into the created order. For it was Adam who was first created, then Eve. So it is absolutely not cultural.

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It is mandatory for the Christian church. Okay. Right. Okay. Yeah, because I taught that, and you'd hear a pin drop.

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When I got done, you know. Really? Good. Where did you teach that? Yeah. At church, my pastor asked me to step in one night, and I've been going through Timothy.

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But it's amazing how people got a problem with that scripture I don't understand. Well, that's their problem, not you.

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So here's the thing. A lot of churches are moving towards apostasy, adopting women pastors, elders, and deacons.

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They can't be all those offices according to the scriptures. Right. So how did they receive it?

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Okay, it was quiet because they were amazed you were actually teaching the truth, or they didn't like what you were saying. So what was it?

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I really don't know. You'd hear a pin drop when I got done, you know.

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If you need any backup, let me know, because I believe that this is a really important topic.

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Go ahead. Yeah, I used some of your information when I was taught that. But yeah, it's like people,

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I don't want the problem. My pastor, he believes the same way I do. But people go, I remember one time I preached at a church, and it was a

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Baptist church. And they had women deacons. I said, what? You know, we're doing the

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Lord's Supper, and they threw me for a loop. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

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But it's amazing. Yeah, because as a matter of fact, I told my daughter -in -law, a woman's talking to her, and I told her that she has no business being a pastor.

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As a matter of fact, I recommend her to go to your website and look it up. Yeah. Yeah, and as a matter of fact,

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I'll just do this again when this comes up. I'll just offer anybody listening, if you're not just some guy off the street, but you're a pastor or an elder or representative of your group, church, denomination, whatever, then let's do a formal debate.

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If you disagree with me, do a formal debate on does the Bible teach women to be pastors and elders?

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And that would be the topic. And I've been offering this debate for, I don't know, 20 years,

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I guess. I've been doing radio for 21, 22 years, and I've not had a single person accept the challenge.

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Not one. Yeah. I wonder why. Yeah, I remember you talking about that. Yeah. But I know that you've probably seen the same thing.

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Sometimes, mostly, I notice, I tell them Sunday nights, most times people put their denominational identity in there.

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You know what I mean? Like Pentecostal, charismatic sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, there's people who, yeah, you're right, there's different ones.

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But as far as that, I'm glad you stuck up for the truth and don't back down.

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They need to understand the truth. I would love to be able to do a seminar on why this is so important.

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I'd like to do a seminar on that. Maybe I'll work something off and do an online seminar by myself, have people sign up, and they can, you know, whatever.

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Maybe I'll do something like that because I talk about it. But what I need, I'm just going to throw this out, I need someone who would be willing to work with CARM, at first on a volunteer basis, whether they get paid or not because of how things are going in the economy, but they would work to arrange speaking engagements and or seminars that I could do.

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We need something like that. Yes, sir. That's right.

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So I can do stuff like this, go to some place and teach the truth. Yeah. All right.

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All right. Thank you, Matt. I hope you get your feeling back. Hey, thanks a lot. You know, a little here, a little there. Yeah. All right.

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Okay. God bless. Thanks. All right. We have one open line. I mean, three open lines, excuse me, if you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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Let's get on the air with Julie from Utah. Julie, welcome. You're on the air. Hi. I'm reading a book by Barbara R.

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Her last name is spelled B -U -G -U -I -D. Is she a

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Christian? I don't know. I've never heard of her before. Oh, okay. Because the book is called

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Extravagant Grace. Yes, that's what it's called.

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And it seems like it's saying that we're supposed to be going ahead in sinning and that we were born to sin and that it's unnatural for us not to sin.

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It's just kind of a weird book, and I thought maybe if you'd ever heard of her. Really? Yeah. Really? It's kind of a different book.

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I've never read anything like it. She's a Presbyterian. I don't know if that means anything.

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Well, some Presbyterians are good. Some are bad. I'm Presbyterian in my theology, but in a good group.

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I've never heard of her then. I'll tell you what. What I often do is

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I'll go through a book. If you're reading it, if you want, you could say on this page, or here's a sentence.

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I don't even need the page. Because what I would do is I'd download the book on Kindle, and then I just open up.

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If you were to say, she said this. Here's four words. Then I could just put those four words in and search for the entire book.

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I can find it. Then I can read the context and see what's going on. If people want to do that kind of thing, it's extremely helpful.

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They can go right to where the issues are, read the context, and say, yep, this is a problem. Nah, not really. Whatever.

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If you want to do that. I do book reviews every now and then. Thank you. Thank you so much.

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I appreciate it. God bless. Bye -bye. Have a good day. You too. Thanks. Bye. All right.

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Now, since she's from Utah, I'm going to call her coming in. I'm going to go on my calendar and let you guys know down there in Utah that I'm going to be down there on the last, let's see,

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February, March, April, May. Here we go. That on the 31st of May, the last day of May, which would be a

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Friday, I'll be involved with a debate in Ogden, Utah at Weber State University.

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Now, the timing is not very good. It's between 4 and 6 p .m. I'm going to be debating a Mormon. I'll get more information out of this.

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I'm probably going to go down the day before, spend the night down there, and then relax, get to the place and stuff like that.

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But so I'll probably do that. And if there's a church down there that Thursday night wants me to come and speak or something like that,

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I can get down there before that. But whatever. So we'll be putting the information out there, and the debate will be with a

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Mormon gentleman. And does the Bible teach salvation by faith or works? So I'll be working on that.

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And there you go. I'll just let you know. All right. So you can plan for that if you want. We've got a break coming up. We have

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Cherry from Utah, and she's waiting right there. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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I'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live.

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Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

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All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. For those of you listening a little bit late,

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I was out Thursday and Friday with a bad head cold. I'm still getting over it, but I'm able to do the radio today.

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So you can tell my voice is a little bit extra, a little bit raspy, a little bit deeper than normal. My wife usually likes it, though, when

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I do that. Yeah, she likes that. All right, let's get back on the air with Cherry from Utah.

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Cherry, welcome. You're on the air. Yes, thank you for picking up the phone.

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And one question I would talk earlier, you talked about the woman cannot be an elder in the pastor.

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That's it. I totally understand. However, I'm a sheriff, a deacon chair in a church, pretty much a sheriff, you know, for the members.

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Is that the OK thing? I, you know, I've been in this position for three years already. No pastor, no elder.

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I just a deacon. What do you think? Deacons are not for women either. OK, let me read the scriptures.

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OK. Yeah. Is there any in the Bible you can't? No. Let me read the scriptures here about this.

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OK. First Timothy three, eight. I'll start reading. It says deacons, likewise, must be men of dignity, not double tongued or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain, but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.

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These men must also be first tested. Then let them serve as deacons if they're beyond reproach.

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Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossip, so temperate, faithful and all things.

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Deacons must be husbands of one wife and good managers of their children in their households.

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For those who have served well as deacons, obtain for themselves a high standard and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

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So women can't meet that. It's just that simple. So first Timothy chapter eight.

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Three. First Timothy three, eight through 13. Eight through 13. 12 actually.

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But 13 is the thing. But yeah. OK. So unfortunately. Now, does that mean women can't be used in church?

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Well, no, it doesn't. They can do other things or just not to be in that office. The reason is because it's an authoritative office, because it's administration of the work of God to the people.

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And this is for men. So if they want to serve in the church, just let them be, you know, call them something other than a deacon.

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And right. However, I also got the. Yeah. Also, God said we're a servant.

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We never be above anybody. You know, I mean, we're too humble to serve. We should not be any position.

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We share with God and also show the people like that. Jesus Christ did. You know, he even washed the disciple feet.

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I think the review is that they can think they're in charge. I think that's wrong.

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You know, I, I, I don't think I want to be in charge of anybody. However, I definitely going to review with our pastors.

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But there's something Bible seems not a good for the woman to do it. Of course,

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I, I, I take the position. Somebody's want to show nothing. I want to be in charge of it.

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You know, a man or other. So that's I don't see anybody above two.

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Yeah. Appreciate it for you. You know, my call point of that, that church. I can dive into the mall and then talk to our church members as well.

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Thank you. Yeah. And where are you in Utah? If I can ask just what city? I'm not warm.

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We're, we're a Christian church. Yeah. We'll basically be back. The biblical principles are very different from pretty much basically on the

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Bible. You know, study Old Testament, New Testament, nothing more than the Bible. I think formally believe nothing more, nothing less than what a

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Bible teaching us. So, yeah. Well, that's the case. Then they ought to not have a women as deacons because the requirements for the deacons are similar to the requirements for elders.

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Husband of one wife. Okay. And how do you just have that? But, you know,

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I want to, well, I'll talk about it when you hang up, but yeah, that's what it says. Okay. That's what it says. Sure.

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And can you, I heard earlier you talk about you were going to come to Utah to do some debate with a

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Mormon. Can you tell me when the information, when is that? Yes. It's going to be on the last day of this month,

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May. So it'll be the last day, which is Friday. It'll be at Ogden. Unless something happens, the schedule's changed, but it's going to be at Weber State University.

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It begins at 4 p .m. Unfortunately, that's the time we were able to get with that facility.

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I wanted later, but that's just how it is. And from 4 to 6. So if people get off work earlier, they want to come down and listen.

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The way we can find the information, do you post it online? We can malware the location. Weber State is a big university.

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Yes. What I'm going to do is, let's see, karm .org. I'm going to put up, let's see,

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I'll put up a calendar event on that and put a link to it on a page so that you can see the map and where to go.

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I don't even know where to go yet. I'll have to get more information. And we'll figure it out, because it's three to four weeks off.

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On your website? I'm sorry, what? It's on your website? Not yet. Not yet.

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I'll have to put it up there. So I've just kind of been sick for about the better part of a week, so I haven't done much of anything.

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Trying to get back into it. So I need to catch up on that, among other things. All right. Okay. Yeah, thank you so much.

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I appreciate you all. You're always great teachings. I really appreciate all the, you know, use the knowledge of the

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Bible to teach other people. Reach out. Thank you. Well, praise God. You know, praise God. All right.

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Praise God. Okay, bye. Okay, bye. Well, we have nobody waiting right now.

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If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276. All right.

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Why is this such an important thing about the men leading in the office? Is it just a cultural thing and a patriarchy and white privilege?

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You know, all this kind of idiocy that people like to throw at things they don't like. No, it's not any of those.

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It's based in the revelation of God and how things are in the church. When Paul the Apostle said that whether or not to be pastors, assuming not to be an authority over men because Adam was first created, that's the beginning of it because it relates to the nature of God.

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So women can't fit that position because it's not what they're created for. Women were created to be helpmates of their husbands.

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Now, I could just see me running for office in five years if someone finds this quote.

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Women are to be helpmates of their husbands. Do you still hold that, Mr. Slick? Yes, I do. You know, because the left and the world hates the offices of male and female and husband and wife.

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It does not mean that the wife is inferior to the man at all. They're equal.

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It just means they have different responsibilities and different callings. And biblically speaking, from the context of God's revelation found in Scripture, the offices that contain authority in the church are to be male -led, not female -led.

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Now, yes, there are certainly abuses, and there would be abuses by anybody who gets into authority positions.

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Not everybody's going to be abusive, but it does happen. We know this. So women would not be exempt from such failures, just the same as men.

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So one of the things that concerns me, however, is that I want women to know that they can be used in the church.

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They don't need a title. They don't need authority to do these things.

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Now, I've been to churches where the ladies, back when I was at a conference last weekend, the ladies were doing great.

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And hold on a sec. I had a cough there. And they got eats and things to eat for people and coffee and stuff.

31:44

And I love that kind of thing that they do. Not that only women could do it. Men could certainly do it as well.

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But it's such a blessing to be able to go to a place where things run smoothly because of the women.

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It's an awesome thing. The reward will be with the Lord Jesus in their service.

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I remember once when I was in the Philippines, and all the men were doing the conference.

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And the women, wives I guess, had gathered, and they were serving the men, serving the pastors.

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And I mean really serving them. And I was watching. I still remember this. I've told this before on the radio. I was watching how selfless they were serving and just being there and making things go smoothly.

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And the men were able to study and listen to the conference and take what they learned back to their churches. The women shared in the glory in that, in the reward, because they were helping their husbands and the pastors be able to be less distracted.

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And I remember going back into the room, where all the women were, because they were finally eating after everybody else had eaten.

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And I walk in there, and they saw me, and they stood up. Do you need something?

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I said, no, no, no. And they said, that's when I thank you. And I got the impression they hadn't been thanked that often.

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But I really thanked them for making everything so good. This is one of the privileges that women can do.

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They have that ability. They don't need a title for that. But they can see the need, and they can humbly serve and bring great glory to the

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Lord in that. And their reward is not before people, but before God.

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And in heaven, the crowns will be that much bigger. And this is something that I think we need to understand.

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Men are the ones who have the responsibility in the church to do what is proper.

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The church isn't doing too well, is it? Not that men are to blame, but they're kind of to blame, because the burden falls upon them.

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And so God's going to judge them, judge us. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages.

34:00

Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

34:11

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

34:17

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. As is often the case,

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I'll pay attention to the text in the chat rooms. We're having a good time.

34:30

We're talking about the issue of women's leadership and things like that. Sometimes the people get ridiculous, and they're a good ridiculous, fun ridiculous.

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And someone wrote a new book idea of Slick, Reform Sandwich Makers of the Modern Era. So that started it off.

34:51

And so I wrote, yes, and we need to have sandwich -making Olympics where women are given certain condiments, breads, and meats, and they have to impress the judges.

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I want to be a judge. And so I wrote, yeah,

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I think the women would love to participate in this. Right, ladies? And so we're getting a few chuckles from some of the ladies in there.

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And then the winners, I wrote, move up to the grilled sandwich Olympics. So I was running out of time because the music was going.

35:21

Laura said, hey, she's in for the grilling Olympics. That's good. And I wrote, the award is not gold medal, but sauce lids.

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So I think we're on to something here. I think it'd be fun. So we're having fun in the chat there.

35:38

All right, all right. Let's get to Norman from North Carolina. Norman, welcome. You're on the air.

35:45

How are you doing, Matt? Oh, hanging in there, just having fun online and answering questions.

35:51

We're trying to. Yeah. So what do you think? Yeah, you've probably answered this before. But your position on women in the pulpit, or I should say in church leadership, pretty clear, and I think rock solid.

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But what about on the radio? There's a lot of these women that have radio ministries kind of like yours. Now, they're not necessarily calling themselves, you know,

36:17

Bible Answer Men or Bible Answer Women in that case, but they're out there. What do you think? Or have you already answered this?

36:23

I just wanted to get your take on that. Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. You know, so here

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I am on the radio. I've been doing it for, you know, I'm in my third decade now. So I'm not a minister of a church.

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I'm not an elder in a church doing this. I'm not a deacon in a church doing this. I'm not a bishop in a church doing this.

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I'm just some guy whose last name is Slick, which, you know, enough suspicion right there.

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And so can a woman do that? Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't see why a woman couldn't get on the radio and do some

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Bible teaching. A lot of women have a lot of great experience, a lot of knowledge, and can see things that we men sometimes can't.

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The Lord can certainly anoint them. As long as they're not in a church context, in authority over men.

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I'm not in authority over anybody here. You know, when someone calls me up, I can hang up on them.

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That's my authority. I don't like you. You're gone. And that's all. So it's not a formal teaching thing in a church context, because that's what

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Paul says, that he's giving instruction on how we're to behave in the household of God, which is the church, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

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So I believe that because of that, it's really kind of focusing on that issue. And so I don't have any problem with women being on the radio and certainly don't have them teaching in seminaries and writing books and other things, which

37:45

I think they can be quite gifted at. Okay. Okay.

37:51

Does that make sense? Yeah. Hey, I just wanted to say, some of these people that call you back, even after you hang up on them,

37:59

I'm amazed. I sometimes wonder, are these plants that you have out in the crowd? Because they keep calling back.

38:08

Sometimes you knock them down and they keep coming back like that with either lady. I'm amazed, absolutely amazed.

38:16

Well, now she might be listening. Yeah. I guess it's your personality.

38:23

Yeah. Well, you know, there are people out there who have different personalities as well, who believe that they're correct and want to be vindicated and to teach.

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And so I'm a public figure and public opportunity and they want to challenge me, and that's fine. I would do the same thing.

38:42

I'd call up some radio guy or girl and say, hey, wait a minute. I don't agree with that. And that's fine. And so they often have, in my opinion, rationalizations for things and refuse to believe.

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So when someone denies that Jesus is God in flesh, they're under demonic influence. And so they're not going to receive the truth and they're going to continue to call back.

39:02

And this is part of the thing that goes on. And then there's people who I've encountered so many people in Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, who are idolatrous.

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I mean that they put, why? Excuse me. Head cold stuff. They're putting the church in place of Christ and their loyalties to the church.

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And so when I attack their church, like when I say, you know, the Roman Catholic Church is apostate, it's a false church because I believe it's true, or the

39:30

Eastern Orthodox Church will also lead you to damnation, just like the Roman Catholic Church. People get offended by that and they want to call me out.

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And well, I don't say just to be offensive. I say it because I believe it's true. I really do. And they want to, you know, they're going to be convinced that I'm wrong.

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And they want to have more and more opportunities to do that because they might know some of my responses and say, well, here's a response to that.

39:52

Then we go back and forth is what debates are. So people are just that way. And I'm kind of shocked sometimes that they'll call back for round four, round five, round six.

40:02

I'm like, when are you going to pick up on this? You know, going well for you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It is amazing.

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But sometimes, hey, if they keep calling back, you know, the doors open. Right. I mean, in my experience, you know, when

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I when I when I'm not a public figure, but when I stand up for the truth, usually that's it.

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The door shuts and they don't want to talk to me anymore, including people that are supposedly Christians. Yeah, I said,

40:28

I mean, it's gone. They don't want to talk to me anymore. So I don't know. That's so good for you.

40:35

Keep up the good work. Enjoying the show. Well, good. I'm glad you do. So God bless me.

40:41

God bless. Talk to you soon. Thanks. Bye. All right. All right. Now let's get to Ryan from Utah.

40:48

Hey, Ryan. Welcome. You're on the air. Oh, how are you? Hanging in there. Just getting overhead calls.

40:54

Other than that, I'm fine. What do you got, buddy? Great question for you, Matt. My wife is divorcing me.

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We've been married for 14 years. There was no infidelity.

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It was just, she wants to call it irreconcilable differences. But I've stuck in it for three years trying to make this marriage work.

41:19

I'm not perfect. I have definitely held my resentments for my wife. But my question is, I was approached by a lady over the weekend that explained to me that I cannot be remarried.

41:29

And I thought that I had heard that in the past. And so I did look some of those scriptures up.

41:36

And I was looking for some clarification because it looked to me like I would have to wait until my wife is remarried.

41:45

Well, let me help you out here. So let me ask some questions, though. Is she claiming to be a Christian? Yes. Okay.

41:52

Is she going to church? Yes. Okay. What church is it?

41:59

It's been counseled by her women's group to leave me. Okay. Normally when something like this, if a group of women counsel her to leave you, that's often because you're abusive.

42:11

The man is abusive or something like that. So I have to ask the question. Is that part of it? He says

42:19

I'm abusive. And I have held resentments for my wife for, you know, using intimate things as a weapon.

42:28

I think that they get one side of the story. I think we've done a good job at abusing each other.

42:37

All right. Without going into too many details because, you know, this isn't a soap opera here. But if you're both

42:44

Christians, then the marriage needs to be examined by the elders.

42:51

The elders are the ones who need to counsel and not a group of women or a group of guys. That you need to go to the elders in her church, your church, same church, different churches, whatever it is.

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Hopefully it's a good church. And such. There's only two grounds for divorce in the

43:07

Bible. One is adultery. And the other is abandonment. So this is what

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Jesus says in Matthew 19, 9. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, the word there is porneia.

43:22

So all kinds of sexual immorality. Marries another woman, commits adultery. In other words, if hypothetically your wife was committing adultery, not saying she is, but a man and a wife.

43:35

And the wife is committing adultery. The man is free to divorce her, but not obligated to. And it works vice versa.

43:42

So a woman could divorce her husband if he's committing adultery. And she's then free.

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And she's free to remarry. And the spouse, the offended spouse, is free to remarry because the other person broke the covenant.

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And the remaining spouse was faithful to the covenant. The other one is abandonment.

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If an unbelieving one leaves, let him leave. The brother or sister is not under obligation in such cases.

44:09

God has called us to peace, 1 Corinthians 7, 15. So if your wife abandons you, let's say you're working for reconciliation under the eldership of the church.

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Working with her elders, whatever it is. And she refuses repentance and refuses to be reconciled.

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And goes away. And the grounds are not biblical here. Then you're free to remarry because you're not under obligation anymore.

44:38

She's broken the covenant. Okay? Okay. I did ask her to go to Christian counseling.

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And she said that she wouldn't be willing to go to any counselors who don't believe in divorce. I believe in divorce.

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God believes in divorce. God divorced Israel. It just has to be for biblical reason. That's all.

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And that's it. So I've actually recommended one person get divorced once. Because of the situation.

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I said, yeah, you're free to divorce in this one. And I told her that. Because her husband was unrepentant.

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And I said, at a certain time, you've got to protect yourself and the children. Okay. Yes. Here's another thing.

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If a man's beating his wife or vice versa, she's free to abandon him. Because he's abandoned the covenant of protection.

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And it's a form of abandonment where he's abandoned her safety. And he's inflicting on her. She should get out.

45:40

And in the Old Testament, how they dealt with an abusive husband was really simple. They can't do that today, but I wish they could.

45:46

What they would do is the brothers and the relatives of the wife would go talk to the husband about. There is a physical abuse of his wife.

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And then his wife would come and nurse him back to health. They took care of it.

45:59

If you do this again, this is what's going to happen. Well, I've never touched my wife. I've protected my wife. I've been a protector.

46:05

Okay. Then there's the kind of emotional abuse. And maybe that she's just not capable. I'm not accusing you.

46:12

I don't know the details. We're doing radio here. But the thing is that from what you've said so far, it does not appear as though she's got grounds for divorce.

46:21

And if that's the case, and she continues with it, then you're free to remarry.

46:26

Okay. I would recommend you do is be in contact with your elders, your pastor, your church, and to keep a record.

46:33

A record. I would say this all the time to people. Keep a record of what you have done right and wrong, but the procedures with the dates and who you've talked to.

46:42

I talked to so -and -so on this date, pastor so -and -so, or man on the radio, whatever it is, and recommended this and this and this.

46:48

And what it is is a document that covers your rear. The reason is because I got to hurry up because we're almost out of time.

46:56

Not that I want a divorce, but you need to be able to justify why this happened.

47:02

You were the one who was offended in this that she didn't have grounds. You worked on this day to reconcile, that day to reconcile, with this person to counsel, to reconcile.

47:12

She refused, refused, refused, and all this is there. So if you ever have to get remarried or ever comes up, you can present this to your pastor and say, here's a situation.

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And I took care of all the things I could do to make it right. She refused. She abandoned me. Then you'd be free and that you need to have that kind of a document.

47:31

It's helpful. Okay, buddy. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Okay. All right.

47:37

Okay. God bless. Yeah, it's a tough topic. And I hope I was able to represent everything he was saying properly and accurately without all the information.

47:45

It's only one sided. But nevertheless, there you go. And the Lord bless you by his grace. We're back on air tomorrow, hopefully with a little bit of a better voice and a better, you know, kind of a little bit of color.