USA Today Tells Christians to Shut Up, and More

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

USA Today, Gay Rights, and the Christian Response

And good morning, welcome to the dividing line. The day I got back from the UK an Article appeared in USA Today a number of people have discussed it. In fact, I was listening to my good brother Michael Brown discussing this on a ride just yesterday and And Once he started talking about I want to talk about to it.

Love to have him on in fact to chat about this, but he's busier than a one-armed paper hanger. Just like I am and This is a Tom Krottenmacher article on Gay rights. Keep fighting or adapt you get the sense observing the shifting cultural landscape.

And there's the problem right there shifting cultural landscape is not a sufficient basis for truth. That we've reached a point on gay rights. It is similar to that moment in a football game or an election or a relationship when you know, it's over.

Even though it's not over. It appears increasingly obvious that social acceptance of gay men and lesbians and insistence on their equal rights are inexorable. If the repeal of don't ask don't tell weren't enough to signal that turning point or the classification of several gay resisting Christian Right or rights right organizations as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

I have to chuckle because I mean that's a real conservative group itself. There came news that Exodus International was ending its involvement in the anti-homosexuality Day of Truth in US high schools.

We need to equip kids to live out biblical tolerance and grace Exodus president Alan Chambers explained while treating their neighbors as they'd like to be. Treated whether we agree with them or not. Add it up and you see a decision point at hand for socially conservative Christian groups such as the Family Research Council that have led Resistance to gay rights.

Do they fight to the last ditch? Continue shouting the anti-gay rhetoric that rings false and mean to the many Americans who live and work with gay people or who? Themselves are gay or do they soften their tone and turn their attention to other fronts?

Prayerful discernment. This is the author speaking and simple Christian decency. Please notice the conjunction of the terms Christian and decency there would strongly suggest the latter. The alternative looks worse by the day a quixotic battle more likely to discredit its fighters and their fine religion.

Than win any hearts and minds for Jesus. Evidently, that's what Christianity is supposed to be. Christianity has far worthier causes than this according to Tom. For all its drama and rally the troops appeal fighting to the end is a sure loser.

More and more Americans young people in particular Christians very much included no gay men and lesbians and see how the anti-gay talking points and characters. Fail to square with the reality under our noses then under a subtitle, but the Bible says Young Christians increasingly have family members who are gay.

Does that mean that the gay population has rapidly expanded over the past 30 years? Well, no actually hasn't but anyway have people in their lives who really matter to them who are gay and that changes how they approach.

These issues says Gabe Lyons author of the new book the next Christians and a leader and chronicler of the new generation of Evangelicals another reason that the term evangelical may be losing its relevance.

This doesn't mean their convictions in the matter of change. But in this new environment people don't want to see their friends being discriminated against. They don't want them labeled as someone who should be feared and blamed.

Of course rubbing some people the wrong way is a little concern if you're convinced you're representing the straight from the Bible capital T truth as Conservative Christian organizations are quick to assert.

The problem is that such a stance is increasingly difficult to maintain as society begins taking a more complex look at what the Bible says. Bible's not even capitalized here and Doesn't say about sex and as growing ranks of unchurched Americans ask why it even matters what the Bible says.

Boston University biblical scholar Jennifer right newest. Yes biblical scholar Demonstrates in her new book unprotected texts. But the pot that's a that's just folks these bogus absurd insane books have been coming out for a long time and I mentioned this when we wrote the same-sex controversy.

I could not believe how many books came out even during the time of the writing of that book all contradicting one another all all mouthing this parroting the same silliness but just get used to the fact that Folks are gonna argue this way.

Oh, there's all these scholars. Whether what these scholars say makes a lick of common sense or not is Irrelevant as long as somebody with a doctorate said it and folks you can find somebody with a doctorate who will say anything.

That's the nature of education in our world today. Jennifer right newest. Demonstrates her new book unprotected texts. The Bible's lessons on sex and marriage are highly nuanced heavily contextualized and often contradictory.

The writings the Apostle Paul and modern interpretations of Sodom and Gomorrah story guide much of conservative Christian thinking on sexuality. But other parts of the Bible veer in dramatically different directions.

Nus points out. Appearing to legitimize polygamy or sex with slaves or 180 degrees in the opposite direction elevating celibacy as the proper Christian practice. No says it is highly misleading for marriage tradition is to portray their stances the biblical stance when read as a whole she writes the Bible provides neither clear nor consistent advice about sex and bodies end quote.

Yes. Well now we know What this biblical scholar is all about in explaining its withdrawal from the day of truth. Exodus international. Outlines a smart way forward for conservative Christian groups one that does not require that they sacrifice their core beliefs.

Note that Alan Chambers did not announce a change in his organization Organizations philosophy that people can be saved from homosexuality through faith in Christ. What he did signal though was a change in tone and emphasis and in doing so he invoked a foundational Christian principle.

Treat others as you wish to be treated. Contrast that with the words of certain other Christian right leaders. Family Research Council leader Tony Perkins continues his steady drumbeat of dark warnings that homosexuals are radical.

Unwell and out to destroy Christianity and the family. Chuck Coulson best known for his admiral prison ministry work has described same-sex marriage as the greatest threat to religious freedom in America.

Is Coulson claiming that the religious liberty of a subset of Christians is abrogated if those Christians do not get to dictate the law? Of the land on marriage if you if you can't see the twistedness of that thinking folks.

Then you must be having a real hard time interacting with this growing anti-christian society in which we live. You you've get this is why we have to be emphasizing in our churches the need to cultivate a Specifically Christian worldview that is consistent with biblical parameters and that we apply to all of life absolutely necessary.

It's doubtful going out the article that many people outside the conservative Christian camp will hear much truth in that assertion and As well, we shouldn't because it was an absurd assertion and as Coulson's recent experience demonstrates maintaining This stance can only paint you into a corner in the new context.

Coulson is a leader of a project called the Manhattan Declaration which is mounting a vigorous defense of conservative values. A key plank in that text and that as you might guess is Opposition to gay marriage and that has become the bone of contention in a news making brouhaha over Apple's decision to ban the Manhattan Declaration iPhone app, which of course is just further evidence.

That's most of the people in geekdom. Are cultural liberals and anti-christians, I mean, that's just the reality that we have to deal with and That's that's the fact the cultural tide after the apps initial launch Apple started receiving protests.

The declaration promoted hate and homophobia and Decide to remove it from the virtual shelves. Say what you will about the fairness those charges does opposing same-sex marriage automatically constitute hate.

This is the jam in which gay rights fighters increasingly find themselves. They strived with hold a cherished right from a certain group of Americans based on their identities. It that is just to catch that last sentence again you should be able to hear that and immediately recognize this person is not speaking truthfully not speaking even rationally and this is a obvious and shallow form of argumentation.

That many people fall for listen that sentence again. This is jam, which gay rights fighters gay rights fighters see all through this this author. Clearly promoting an anti-christian agenda. He probably calls himself a Christian but clearly promoting an anti-christian agenda.

There are many people who do that by the way, it's something got to get used to. Will you will use weasel words will use the language to insert their conclusions into the assertions? So that there's no way to argue them.

Gay rights fighters. How about people who actually believe in marriage the way marriage has been practiced for thousands of years. How about people who actually believe that God created actually believe what Jesus taught about marriage now?

He'll never put it that way. But that's the reality because we know what Jesus taught about marriage read Matthew 19 you find out what Jesus taught about marriage. There's no question about it. You can go off and find some wacky woman liberal quote-unquote Bible scholar someplace.

And quote her all you want that doesn't change what Jesus said about marriage. And so gay rights fighters increasingly find themselves as they strive to withhold a cherished right. See, they've they've grabbed hold of the civil rights movement and they've imported wholesale into the promotion of perversion and the destruction of marriage and the very cultural fabric of the nation withhold a cherished right from a certain group of Americans based on their Identity not their choices not their sin not their perversion, but their identity.

See. That that is one of the most classic examples I've ever seen of Assuming the end of the argument inserting in the middle and going. Hey, you can't argue against that now. Can you and you've got to learn to recognize that kind of you're not dealing with someone who even begins to honor truth?

When you hear that kind of thing conservative Christian leaders ought to be very careful about their rhetoric going forward. Oh, yeah, you you you you terrible people believe in the Bible. You better be careful.

Careful not to continue giving the impression that being Christian is in large measure about opposing gay rights. Oh Yeah gay rights. That's all that the Bible is about. Actually, of course. The point is the gospel of Jesus Christ and the issue that God sent his son to die as a sacrifice for sins.

Why. Because there is such a thing as sin and homosexuality is a sin and Those who practice it as those who lie or cheat or dishonor their parents or whatever else also abide under the wrath of God. But it's still sin.

And if you say it's not then you're saying Jesus was a liar. Simple straightforward. That's what it's all about and Careful not to let the public expression of their faith become primarily associated with something.

It looks sounds and feels like hate to growing segments of the population. Well, that's already the case in in collapsing Europe. Secularized Europe and secularized Canada is already the case there and people like a Tom Krottenmacher want that to be the case here as well.

Fighting to the end might sound gallant. But it's not a road to glory so much as a ticket to infamy and infamy akin to that born of the likes of Bull Connor George Wallace and other villains of civil rights history.

Is that any hill for Christians to die on? Well, there you go. There you have. Well, it's anti-christian rhetoric. It's what it is. It needs to be identified for what it is. It's anti-christian bigotry and should be identified for what it is.

But this is the kind of in-your-face. Shut up. Stop talking about what's true Material that is out there in our society today and influencing many many people. Evidently the number one song in the nation, which I wouldn't know anything about is a Lady Gaga song about to born this way.

And there is no question the next generation the generation coming up behind behind us is very very morally and ethically confused. How could they not be given that they have been robbed of their birthright as human beings?

They believe that they are nothing but the accidental result of Cosmic forces that have no purpose. There's no transcendent purpose there's the only thing that's really important is that I have my iPod and my music and My favorite foods and my favorite clothes and stuff like Liberty and self-sacrifice and service all the rest that stuff.

That that comes from a worldview no longer meaningful to that generation. It's all me and therefore if it feels good to me, therefore it must be right they are ethically and morally challenged. And we are the only ones to blame for that because We have in many ways and in many churches Collapsed when it comes to any meaningful proclamation of the Creatorship of God the fact that he is our maker and our creator and therefore there is a divine law and that divine law does Set the parameters of what is right and wrong and to fail to honor the very things that We proclaim loudly God honors including marriage and the things related thereto so I want to mention that and It is that is that is not even subtle Anti-christian rhetoric that is open and bold Anti-christian rhetoric that's hate speech.

Because it's telling you if you keep saying what you're saying, we all will hate you. That is that's hate speech in and of itself since we want to talk about hate speech. Let's Shine the light both directions.

Shall we at least I have a basis for what I'm saying. All the secular humanist has is well, that's how I feel or that's the current moral Consensus just as you know, remember the debate with the atheist last summer Back in New York.

So when you stand at Auschwitz, what can you say? Well, I disagree with this. That's all you could say. You couldn't say it was morally wrong. You can't just have about any grounds for saying that no Darwinist ever would.

There you go. All right. Next completely shifting gears. Completely shifting gears. I was sent an email that I wanted to respond to and It's a it's a tough. It's a tough email and it's it's it's a very good question.

Responding to Emotional Struggles Over Election and Reprobation

The email says my wife and I have been going through a process of solely Understanding reform theology last night when contemplating these teachings on election predestination particular atonement cetera.

My wife started crying for her two sisters that do not show any fruits of saving faith. How do I react to my wife and church members when teaching these doctrines when questions arise such as why didn't God elect my father?

For salvation it just hit home last night when my wife was crying. I understand some of the answers to this such as having a God-centered perspective to this. That the non-elected deserving of hell and that God is not obligated to save anyone.

But what is your best response this emotional reality of friends and family who were never elected for salvation? I? Do believe that it is a matter of spiritual maturity to come to understand? The reality of One's Necessity that the need that one has for self-discipline in the matter of one's spiritual life we as human beings are creating the image of God and We have the ability to engage in self-discipline that's what separates us from the animals who are ruled by their their their brute passions.

We are not and Or let me put the change that we should not be and it is is it not. Is it not maturity itself when we transition from being a child who wants what we want right now and Is it is it not the mark of a child?

To throw a temper tantrum when you don't get what you want. And We recognize maturity in our own children when they can put that off to do what is right to be disciplined. To work toward obtaining what they desire.

Isn't that a sign of maturity. Isn't that what makes Charlie Sheen such a such a gross person. To observe today is an utter lack of of adult maturity it is. And So in this in this in the Christian life We are to have the mind of Christ.

We are to be self-disciplined. We are to reign in our bodies and our minds and our spirits under the guidance of the Spirit and the Word of God and So our emotions must be brought into check. I think of Sarah Edwards response upon receiving the news of her husband's death was not to cry out to God.

Why me. He was such a wonderful man. He was still young. He could have done so much. That's that's not what she did. Her first and greatest concern was that her reaction her response Would reflect to the glory of God.

That's discipline. That's a spiritual discipline that one gains over time. That's spiritual maturity one games or gains over time. And so much of evangelicalism the theology of evangelicals is determined by their emotions what feels good to them and so I Would say that we have to start by encouraging.

You know this this is a question about How do I react my wife and church members when teaching these doctrines. Once questions arise such as why not my father? And the first response that should be. That's not the proper question.

The proper question is why me. And this is the same same issue is Romans chapter 9 when you hear those words Jacob, I loved but Esau I hated. Here is a spiritual maturity test if What amazes you in that statement is Esau?

I hated. You've missed it. What should amaze you in that phrase is Jacob? I loved. Now that's very much not the world's perspective because God's love is owed to everybody. Because God is love, right?

Yes, God is love. But what makes that love so deep and so rich is that his love? Exercised by the thrice Holy God who hates sin and whose anger and wrath is real and So, where do you start. You start first and foremost with.

Put this way no person will be able to deal with this question appropriately. Who has not first and foremost? First and foremost Recognized with amazement. Their own utter dependence upon God for their own salvation and the fact That they were not owed this.

It was not something that had to be given to them. God isn't lucky to have them. You see when we recognize? That God could have been perfectly just and righteous to let us go our way. Then we have a foundation upon which to stand to look at others including those close to us.

Because fundamentally someone who would struggle With God not Extending electing grace to someone is someone who thinks that the electing grace they themselves have received was somehow something that was owed to them and it was not and So there's the foundation.

I think that we have to go to a Recognition that the judge of all the earth does right and that grace can never ever be demanded. That's Not something that can necessarily be communicated with permanent clarity in one presentation in One Bible study now God may use just a one single very clearly presented Bible study.

To accomplish that I've talked to lots of people Just got hit upside the head by like a two by four with Romans 9 and I've understood ever since okay but for others it takes time and there's a struggle and there's resistance and so lovingly But without compromise representing God's truth and calling people to a maturity and a self-discipline.

That is The way to answer that particular question now Shifting gears yet once again big time. I Didn't get to finish this I I got close. I've got enough to give you a good good sense. But yesterday as I mentioned I was when I was riding I I was I listened to an Al Mohler briefing.

I listened to the briefing all the time and Since I threw this one on my iPod and I always have it on high speed. It was like man that was short That was the briefest briefing ever because at high speed it goes by really quick and people sound so Incredibly intelligent when you listen to them at high speed I mean they can just they did they'd think like anything and then you listen to it in regular speed and they're just plain old human beings, but I listened to Unbelievable radio broadcast the one that followed up the one that I was on With Kyle Paisley the next week they had a debate with John Hick now John Hick Well known if you're if you're a seminary student, you've had to read John Hick philosopher of religion and I had to read John Hick years and years ago at Fuller Theological Seminary and so on so forth and it was on pluralism.

John Hick is a pluralist and He is a Quaker he mentioned that in this in this program he mentioned he's a Quaker. Which once you listen to this, you're gonna go really that That's interesting as I listened to this man speaking.

I was I was taken aback By here's a guy who believes all these Various paths to God are equally valid Buddhism Islam Christianity every form of Christianity Etc, etc religious pluralist all roads lead to Mount Fuji or whatever it is and Yet as I listened to this I could not help to recognize that When you Got Christianity of its core essence even when trying to say it is one path amongst many paths you have to attack it and Here is this religious pluralist with his British accent.

Mouthing the same attacks on the reliability of the New Testament and the doctrine of the Trinity that we hear every time we review a debate or presentation with Muslims. Or Bart Ehrman or whatever. It's the same stuff.

The enemies of faith really don't come up with new things. They just have to retread it and Trot it out as something new. And so I want you to listen. I'll break in once in a while, but I want you to listen.

There we go get it plugged in this time. I want you to listen to John Hick and It's gonna start off about two minutes of his what caused him to become a religious poet. He was raised as a Christian. What caused him to abandon it notice and when we get to the end?

When when and I may jump to this or I might be able to get to it or maybe play it next time. I don't know all depends. Justin Briarley did a good job of continuing to push on him and push on him why should we accept your view as the best view and Finally, he grounded everything in his own personal experience.

His own person. That's all we got. God hasn't spoken. In fact, I think from his perspective who God is. God can't speak. But Let's listen to what John Hick has to say. Now I just stopped just for a moment.

That's not what Christian worship is and if that's all he thought Christian worship was at the time. It's understandable why he now pretty much denies the essence of the Christian faith. But but notice how man-centered that was.

I mean that that is a good description of the emergent concept, isn't it? But that's that's why Christian worship is focused away from us and on to God the proclamation of his attributes the worship of Him in the way that he has defined see once you abandon all that stuff.

All you've got is just the religious mumbo-jumbo of the world. Which is why? You know emergent church movements and things like that can't even begin to create an apologetic. Because there's nothing to defend.

And Did this sort of lead you to the view that no one religion has the claim to the truth that there?

That all religions are. I mean, well, so there you go. There's there's.

His experience is it because he met Buddhists and you know what I Have seen this happen so many times. Christians who live these little insulated lives and If if you if you have grown up, this is why so many of the emergent people are former fundamentalists because there is a sense in many fundamentalist churches where you sort of create an enclave of us versus them and you never have any interactions with them and Therefore when you meet them and find out that them is a lot like you.

Then the walls you've built up not based upon what the Christian faith actually is. But merely your experiences collapse and They have to be replaced with something else makes perfect sense. Doesn't happen when people grow up in a situation where Christianity is in a small minority and you don't live in this little insulated group.

And you already know that there are nice people who stand against God's truth nice in the human sense not from God's perspective, but Nice in a human sense and those folks have a much stronger foundation upon which to stand.

He goes on. Now, where have you heard that before? Where do you think so many of my Muslim opponents are getting their stuff these days? They're getting it from people like John Hick one of the most respected philosophers of religion in the English-speaking world and Yet when you actually listen to them and have to enunciate their position.

Is there anything new here? Has this not been responded to many many many many times before? It most certainly has. That's what struck me and listening to this was I was shocked at the surface level of Hicks presentations on the key and central issues reliability of the text in New Testament, etc, etc.

Just just shocking at how surface level this material really really was. But but we continue on with what he had to say. Now there's a there's a fascinating Middle of the road are the people who for some reason continue to believe in the deity of Christ.

But not because it's actually part of Revelation. Evidently if you're to be an Orthodox scholar in John Hicks understanding you believe in the deity of Christ because of some tradition. But not because it's actually a part of divine revelation.

This is this is literally Where things are out there in the world folks just so you're aware. Now listen to this because again I've played Basam Zawadi saying this. It's incredibly easily challenged. But again This is one of the problems with so many in the Academy today.

When you're in the liberal ring of things, which is the large majority. You don't think that anybody on the other side has anything worthwhile saying anyways. And the only people over there you listen to are the people who will compromise with you anyhow, and so they just repeat these things over and over again until they take on a life of their own and and no one even even contemplates.

Whether these statements have any meaningful reality any longer. Which of course is why in John chapter 19 the Jews said to Pilate we have a law and by the law He had to die. Because he made him out to be the Son of God the whole point of monogamous the uniqueness.

John chapter 5 it is Son of God in Contra distinction to anyone else in a unique filial fashion. That that that means Relationship not metaphor. It's right there on the surface of the text, but you know, we can just sort of dismiss that stuff.

No doubt. I wonder if you would say the same things about development in the Quran and things like that.

It just just just makes me wonder if he would. I don't know if he would or not.

It would be interesting to find out but God in God's fullness is beyond our by any human difference. So in other words.

You need to understand that the God he presents isn't even a personal God. I mean, I'm not even sure that he would be a classical theist. Many of these folks are not classical theists. They have a God is the ground of all being but this is this is more of A principle than than a person.

And certainly what is the foundation of all this? Well, God has not spoken. Yay, verily hath God said continues to be The the attack upon God's truth and God's people as it has been well from the garden itself.

Has God said no. God has not said and therefore he is unknowable. And even though we have the capacity to make ourselves known and to and we delight in revealing ourselves to someone else is that not.

What what is that not. What makes gay marriage so wrong is that In gay marriage, which is a oxymoron there is no such thing but in that that perversion of true marriage and in homosexuality as a whole you have the loving of a mirror image rather than the expression of oneself fully to one who is Complementary to oneself and that self-revelation is a part of why monogamy Is God's will for mankind because it's a lifelong process.

It's a lifelong joy. We have that ability but the God of John Hick does not have that capacity. Because the God of John Hick is not personal and is not the Christian God in any way shape or form.

So there you have the religious pluralist.

They're they're all right. Why. Because they can all make you happy which is the ultimate human good as if that is the whole purpose. And again man centered Forms of evangelicalism would have a hard time responding to that.

Biblical forms of biblical Christianity that are God-centered. Well, we have a very strong foundation upon which to say.

Yeah, you don't think so. Now now listen.

Listen that this absolutely amazed me because once again, we're talking about one of the best known Philosophers of religion in the English-speaking world. You know teaches in all the high-end schools.

Listen To the absolutely, I'm sorry to have to put this way but incredibly surface-level sophomoric Representation of why the doctrine the Trinity developed this this is just amazing. Now to catch that there's the source of the Trinity is.

Is that once you've got Jesus as God on earth, but you've also got Jesus. You also got God in heaven and then we experience this that is not the same thing is what I talk about Experiential Trinitarianism because I've said the writers the New Testament were experiential Trinitarians.

Peter Had walked with Jesus on earth. He had heard the voice of the Father speaking from on the mount. Jesus has talked about the Father had prayed to the Father and now he's in draw up of the Holy Spirit but that wasn't just some inner feeling and This was an actual revelation in history.

It actually took place the doctrine of the Trinity those Early Trinitarian controversies were fought out over what ground? Exist existential discussions of my personal experience. No Divine revelation God had spoken but see someone like John Hick God hasn't spoken.

So you have to come up with something else. Even if it makes history a mishmash it asked me something else because it can't be that God has spoken. Because we all know well God hasn't spoken and therefore it just sort of follows from there.

I don't. So there you have his lack of understanding of what the gospel is. Being saved is something you grow in. It's just being more human and That's why any religion, you know, as long as it does what well.

Whatever people think religions are supposed to do and whatever day you live in I guess. That's what makes it great and wonderful and fine and fantastic. It's like that now. I think this next one. It's probably the last clip.

I'm gonna play. You have to listen really carefully because The Christian that they had on opposing him a Christian pastor Had just talked about well he had huh? I'm surprised. He was not carted off by the Bobbies as soon as as he left the studio.

There within walking distance of Vauxhall station in London. Where I walked. Because. Because He mentioned the term wrath. Now for over us over here, it's wrath but over there. It's wrath the wrath of God.

You really didn't need to know that because sometimes what are you talking about? Oh wrath? No, not wrath wrath. It's the wrath of God and He actually mentioned, you know, like the sacrifice of Jesus and and stuff like that.

This this primitive horrible stuff now he keeps unfortunately he kept talking over. What I thought was one most important elements of this of what John Hick said, but you can still hear what he says. So try to listen specifically for Hick here so you can hear what he how he is responding to what that Christian said.

That's a very Christian defined view of salvation and the emphasis. Word of that. Well, they're exactly. We should be.

Death on the cross. Sure, but I wanted the idea that yeah, I want to bring on the table. Jesus died is to me. I.

Guess I cut it the wrong spot there. But the idea that that you will not be forgiven unless Jesus died is is to him absolutely reprehensible. He simply cannot believe that. So here's a religious pluralist but when it comes to the real reality of What the Christian gospel is?

Yeah, I can't believe that at all. Evidently, that's that's just beyond it. You see pluralists are not pluralists. Pluralists are just anti-christians that say well the one thing that won't work is the actual Christian gospel.

So I will attack the reality of the New Testament. I'll attack the message of the New Testament. But then I will say everything else works just fine. Aberrant forms of Christianity heresies of the that's all wonderful and Buddhism is wonderful and Hinduism is wonderful and atheism is wonderful and and Islam is wonderful and and all these things are wonderful.

But the one thing that isn't wonderful is the idea of a holy God who has provided one way of salvation and he has done so graciously and Mercifully and all to his honor and glory. We can't no, no, we no we can't we can't go there.

It was an amazing thing to listen to it really really was if you want to hear the whole thing if you can survive hearing. My honest suggestion would be to use the high-speed element of your of your listening software.

Pick up the pace get through it quick like I did but it was the February 19th edition of the unbelievable radio program with Justin Brierley and you can hear the Christian responses and things like that, but if you especially if you are heading off to college Seminary and you're gonna have to read Hick you're gonna run into people.