9/11, Accreditation, Social Justice, Jemar Tisby

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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Greetings and welcome to The Dividing Line. It is Tuesday, September 11th, 2018, and, you know,

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I was literally less than a hundred meters from where I sit right now on September 11th

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Michael Fallon had woken me up and called me from Florida, of course, there are three hours ahead of us

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To let me know what was happening that day at the World Trade Center and other places so I turned on the television began watching and went and got my kids up and said you need to you need to be watching this and Eventually we had to get cleaned up.

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It was the first day of school and It was the one year that I taught at a

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Christian high school and so it was first day of class and I remember walking into that class and Telling those students

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Your lives and your futures change today in ways that You have no way of knowing and it's interesting at least one of those young people in that class

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With whom I butted heads more than once Eventually ended up in the

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United States Marines as a bomb disposal expert and numerous tours overseas

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Which probably would not have happened Were it not for 9 -11 and I heard something that stunned me

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Just a little while ago on television while the reporters talking about it Said that a quarter of Americans alive today were not alive

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We're not old enough or either alive or old enough to know what was going on. So you basically you're 20 year olds and below When 9 -11 took place a quarter

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Wow I cannot imagine What it would be like for 9 -11 to have been something before Your knowledge of it, you know, it was a completely

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Certainly in the travel industry. It was a completely different world Traveling there believe it or not.

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There was a time when travel was fun and and people smiled and You know before 9 -11 for example

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People could Meet you at the gate There were a couple times when my wife brought the kids

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To meet me when I was coming back from a trip and right there is to get off the plane right there at the gate They'd meet you and you'd frequently had to dodge through all the people that had stopped and meeting loved ones and stuff like that Now that happens outside security, you know, so it still happens just happens someplace else and Yeah, and of course that TSA line and all that wonderful fun stuff we get to do today

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Yeah, you didn't you didn't do back in the 70s and 80s and 90s and so on and so forth

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Yeah, a lot of stuff has a lot of stuff has changed, but it's amazing to think of how many people today do not

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Remember that that amazing morning and then of course watching the towers collapse and something else

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Time I wonder what is being planned for the 20th anniversary

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When that so when that comes up, that'll probably be fairly fairly big but You know flight 93 and everything that happened with that Fascinating stuff but every year you think back on it and then we and we move on And My daughter mentioned

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Being woken up that morning. I was 12. My dad woke me up and said you need to come see what's happening and so it's interesting what they remember from from that far that far back, but Yeah fascinating stuff fascinating stuff by the way

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Summer and joy Had Tom Askew on their program.

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So this week's theologians broadcast They're interviewing

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Tom Askew about the statement on Social justice and the gospel

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I I'll mention this a little bit later, but I was listening this morning to Jamar Tisby and his crew

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Talking about the statement and It's just it's an illustration of how far apart the two sides are that there is a lengthy discussion of The title and the fact that it's the statement rather than a state

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So if since it's the statement that's an exercise of power and oppression rather than a statement

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I I Who knew who knew

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Don't even know how to respond to something like that I had has it obviously has nothing to do with power at all But if that's all you think about that's the only categories you have to look at the world in Everything's power and oppression and all the rest of that stuff.

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Then I guess you see it everywhere You just see it everywhere whether it's there or not. You see it and that's that's the price don't even know how to deal with with With that, but anyway on on other issues

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There is an article that Bob Gagnon referred to Talking about Donald Sweeting president of the 8 ,000 student

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Colorado Christian University Spoke during a public hearing for the negotiated rulemaking committee of the

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US Department of Education on Thursday to comment on changes That could negatively impact religious freedom.

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I have been saying for a an extended time that the issue of accreditation

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Will be the issue that is utilized to end specifically faithful Christian education in the

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West and specifically United States, it's not a big deal in Europe because they've dealt with it in other ways doing the same thing but Fundamentally if And this is

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I say this to every every university every seminary If you take government money

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Caesar will tell you what you can and cannot teach and it's just a matter of election cycles until we have

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These same bureaucrats Absolutely demanding that every

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Christian education institution of education Join in not not tolerate

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Not just put up with but join in the celebration of The immoral revolution so Homosexuality and transgenderism and and the profaning of marriage and and it'll just keep going from there because they're

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There's no stopping point on this slope. It's just it just goes all the way down That is going to be used and so if you know, so many of these schools are absolutely dependent upon Pell Grants Upon the government handout and And There are a couple schools already that have said no

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I'm not gonna do it they see it coming they're smart they've already Fixed things made things so that their students

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Got to find other ways to pay their bills rather than seizures money But that doesn't change the accreditation issues in the sense of Utilizing that baseball bat

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To beat people over the head and so evidently this article is is about Fundamentally changing the language that so so as to allow for the insistence upon LGBTQ compliance with the current societal advancement in the immoral revolution and Religious schools and so on so forth doesn't matter

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You have to bow the knee to Caesar and Caesar says thou shalt celebrate people who are confused sexually

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And act upon those can those confusions It's coming. I Look it up.

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It's it's there. What can I what can I say? Let me see here

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Just looking at how I want to approach this like could I say something about two sort of off -topic things that just Have been bugging me like anything

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One just may be a age thing But I'm old enough to remember the queen of women's tennis

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Chrissy Everett remember Chrissy Everett Chrissy Everett was a cute little thing, but she she looked like She looked like Princess Diana a little bit, you know

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Yeah, yeah Very classy lady always classy in victory or defeat either one very talented and Such a contrast to John McEnroe.

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I think they're active I think she was a little bit before McEnroe, but then I think there was a there was crossover time

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Yes, I think he was a little bit after him after she had retired too, but and he's still playing

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I mean he's playing the senior circuit now. He's just He's gonna die with a rack in his hand

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But when when I think of her Wimbledon wins and US Open wins and stuff like that Different world what happened this past weekend?

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I don't know if you saw the debacle at the US Open it just Really bugged me.

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It really to me Said a lot well about fans in New York, but but more so the

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USTA the whole nine yards. What was done? To The Young lady who is the

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US Open champion? I think she's all of 21 years old Naomi Osaka, I think

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I don't have it in front of me, but Who had beaten Serena Williams earlier in the year, so this is the second time she's defeated her

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Between the outrageous behavior on the court by Serena Williams and then the the treatment by the fans and even the

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USTA officials of The champion she's crying when she receives her trophy.

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She's having to apologize for having beaten The one that was supposed to win It was just stunning

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Something like that could never have happened Only a matter of a few decades ago it just it would have been a scandal on an unbelievable level and Yet now we have people actually talking about women's rights and racism and everything else in regard

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Have you noticed that Naomi Osaka is not Anglo, I mean the whole paradigm just falls apart here

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You have one minority beating another by a minority. It has nothing to do with any of that stuff And it had and it it was a girl to beat the girl the woman to beat the woman

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I mean the whole thing is just so insane and so Disgusting I I just I wish there was some way that the entire nation as a whole

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Could send a huge apology card to Naomi Osaka and say we are so sorry for the jerks

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That were booing you for having won. I mean Some of us actually know what sportsmanship is and evidently those people who can afford those tickets

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Didn't get that memo. I was just it was Unbelievable absolutely

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Unbelievable So There was there was that and then sort of similar to that I had some back and forth some people in social media today about the

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Nike thing now look The the main comment that I have made

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Well, I retweeted somebody else and then I got jumped on for having we retweeted that but The Problem from a

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Christian worldview analysis perspective to utilize someone else's language with the

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Nike ad Was as I put in Twitter yesterday

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Modern decrepit Western society Believe something biblical perspective

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Christian worldview perspective and what used to be Western societal perspective

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Believe the truth. It is your duty as the creature of God those are two very different things and all the memes that people have been cranking out just mocking the

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Philosophical theological worldview collapse of that ad campaign many of them have been quite quite humorous

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Easy it's easy to mock that kind of that kind of language because it's just it doesn't make any sense believe something

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Hey, you come a flat -earther while you're at it. Hey, hey, just hey just sacrifice everything for it

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Yeah, that's that's that's brilliant. You could you could put people from the Jim Jones cult there and You could put the folks from Waco there.

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That's what you ought to do. Yeah, I get a picture of Waco burning believe something And be willing to sacrifice everything for it.

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But there you go. There's oh, yeah Fred Phelps, whatever.

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It's just It's pure insanity It is a postmodern ridiculous

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Empty statement and that should be what bothers everybody now I got into I got dragged into arguing about where Kaepernick was in his in his career, you know and that anybody can argue

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One way or the other on that. I'm sorry, but when you talk about people who sacrificed everything he does that is not first -person comes to mind

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Well, he sacrifices career, well, I don't really know that that's the case but Could I could

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I get the interest on his current? Net worth I'd be doing real well just with the with the interest on his his net worth

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I Don't I don't get it. I don't follow it but There you go

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If I could direct your attention to two articles That have been written

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Then I'm going to address a really controversial biblical A couple of biblical texts just to make you feel very very uncomfortable

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And we'll go from there Someone that you are not allowed to read and admit that you read by name of Douglas Wilson Well, what had happened was an article appeared while I was in Florida and I also need to report on the

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Florida trip So I need to I'll talk about these two articles then I'll talk about, Florida Then we'll do the biblical thing and then

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I'll see where we are from there While I was in Florida Joel McDermott Posted a rambling thing about the statement and I'll be pretty honest with you

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Somebody gonna say no, you shouldn't say I'm just gonna be straight for you Joel McDermott tries to write like Doug Wilson, but he can't and The result is you're sitting there going.

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Yeah. Well, well, what what? I Was thinking about trying to respond to Joel McDermott article, but I was just sitting there looking at like I Don't even know where to start

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You know, it's it's sort of like sometimes you have to you have to move a Piece of furniture in your house and you get over to it and you're like, where do you grab this thing?

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You know, there's just there's just no place to grab hold of anything. It's all just fluff And it was never designed to be moved once it was put in place

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Just leave it there and never never been moved again and so I was very thankful when

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I saw that Doug Wilson had decided to Respond in his own inimitable fashion, and it's a very lengthy response as he himself apologizes for But Doug Wilson is a wordsmith and There are not many wordsmiths around anymore and to be honest with you if the educational system in the

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West doesn't Isn't rescued from its current trajectory I don't know

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There's gonna be that many people left who would be able to recognize what a wordsmith is or even appreciate words smithery

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Reading is becoming a lost art amongst a large majority of people and hence you can't appreciate overly well

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When you encounter just really well written stuff both articles I'm gonna refer you to here a

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Doug Wilson's and the second are written by I think wordsmiths people who really

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Have the ability to use the language. I can use the language to communicate

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And to explain difficult concepts and things like that, but I'm not a wordsmith. I don't have that ability the turn of phrase

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That many people do I'm just too prosaic I guess Anyway Wilson Responds to McDermott not by quoting him a lot but by weaving a narrative and There is one particular, you know, they'll be entire sentences that sort of pop out at you

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And Yeah, well, let me just read you two paragraphs This is a message of grace and nothing but grace and it leads inexorably and necessarily to moral transformation

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Romans 6 1 through 4 all other systems are based on works and depend for their motivation on some form of the lash

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You will never be good enough. You will never be pure enough and you will always be a misogynistic racist you exude microaggressions

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So I am NOT talking about trifles all genuinely Christian all genuinely

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Christian social action is grounded on the rock of an absolute

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Declaration of not guilty justification not guilty social justice in square and scare quotes in Every form

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I have seen it take Drives people before it with a whip You are guilty you toxic male

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You are guilty white boy You are guilty. You conservative you are guilty.

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You grandchild of complacent Republicans You are guilty you there with a savings account You are guilty you descendant of slave owners.

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You are guilty guilty guilty and Though you will never be able to fix it we might be willing in a spirit of benevolence to let you try and Then to try again

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Welcome to the squirrel cage run of salvation by works Paragraphs like that just reach out and grab you.

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This is his blogs called mob mob blog and may blog Theology of bites back and this title was

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American vision and the word that justifies dated yesterday if you want to read the entirety of of the material

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Now all of this is Also yesterday a much shorter article If you only have time to read one read this one there is a young man

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Who has I believe his blogs called slow to write He is named

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Samuel say and As My daughter would say

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He's lit She said on Twitter yesterday that his article was the most lit thing she had read today and I You know as you get older like me

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Yeah, rich says it sounds dope Nothing like nothing like some guys in their late 50s sitting around trying to figure out how to speak like the

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Younger generation Because lit dope would have gotten us arrested when we were when we were in high school

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Well not in Colorado now, but when we were young people even even in Colorado lit dope would have gotten you in trouble

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So yeah, the whole the whole thing is is very difficult for me to Yeah, yeah the language stuff tough tough for me to handle but anyway

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Summer says that Samuel say's article is lit. So and he said that It would make his entire week if I managed to work the word lit

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Into the dividing line in reference to his article. So There you go. I'm not sure that he is gonna appreciate the lit dope thing, but that's neither here nor there

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Anyway Yeah Yeah, Kofi just said

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Did James just use the word lit on the dividing line the end surely is nigh Yes, I'm sure that it is.

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Anyway On the statement on socialjustice .com

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website under the articles for September 10th Samuel say has an article called social justice is a threat to human rights in the gospel now

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I Highly recommend the reading of this article to you for one

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Simple straightforward reason 98 .5

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% of The verbiage being expressed on this subject right now involves

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Equivocation and utilization Numerous violation of categories in proper thought and the utilization of multiple definitions for the same phrases, especially for social justices, so the primary thing is people will present a shallow case for a form of biblical justice based upon maybe the application of God's law

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Sort of like the Old Testament prophets or even Deuteronomy 18 where God cast the people out of the land that were there before the

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Israelites because of their sins and Those sins are listed there in Deuteronomy chapter 18

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Which includes homosexuality and incest things and they were cast out. They were vomited out of the land

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Because of that Those sins which demonstrate then that those are universal laws and so what you do is you you you get a

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A surface level everyone can agree that the throne

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God's throne is founded upon justice and and God loves justice and he does justice and it's

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It's as if one side is saying that justice is a bad thing, which of course nobody is

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So people trot out a biblical concept when everybody knows

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That what the document is addressing is not biblical justice I mean we affirmed all sorts of categories of biblical justice in the document

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But social justice is not biblical justice on pretty much any level and If you want to see what the differences are then

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You know people say well you should have defined these things in the statement Well, it's funny as I listen to more and more criticisms over the past only been out for a week over 7 ,000 signers

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Already, which is which is very good for the first week Some of those statements from like last year and stuff like that have 1 ,300 1 ,200 signers a year later.

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We've got 7 ,000. So obviously It has resonated with a much larger audience

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What Yeah, yeah, no don't call it the because that's some type of expression of power

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Anyway We've been told on the one side you talked about way too much and yes,

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I didn't talk about enough. I mean the Criticisms are just you know, it's real easy if you've never tried to write something like that To criticize people who have until you do it yourself anyway

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But you didn't define social justice, well, I think we did in the denials

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If you if you look at what is denied in the denials You'll get a pretty good idea of what social justice is that we're talking about but even more so Samuel say's article does a great job

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Let me just read you a little little portion of it over it's over time the term social justice became associated with critical theorists and Neo -marxist from the

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Frankfurt School in Germany, they rejected universal rights or human rights as a basis for justice They essentially rejected liberty for individuals as the hallmark for justice in society.

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They believed instead that parity between groups Were the mark of justice in society

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Mmm Now see, let me stop right there. That's nothing you you ever find in Scripture You do find parity before God In one's spiritual relationship to him, but you do not find economic parity economic fairness, yes

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But there is no call for the rich to become poor and the poor to become rich and all the rest that kind of stuff It's just not there

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They believed instead that parity between groups the mark of justice in society they rejected individualism and Embraced collectivism now think about it

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If a society gives freedom to individuals there are just some people that are really good at making money and Then there are other people that are not

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And as a result you're gonna have disparity in how much people possess how much they own and And That is necessary in a society that honors individual freedom individual effort labor

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Gifting whatever it might be What we are hearing what we're listening to in our society today is a creeping

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Marxist concept that denies individualism promotes collectivism and as a result

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Pretends to produce Equality of result now as Everybody knows who's read anything

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About socialism and communism it never works out You always have the elite you always have people have more than others

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They just become the party people you know that the people that are in control of suppressing everybody else's rights

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But that's the panacea and Our educational system no longer educates people about that and so you've got a bunch of young people going that sounds really great and we're repeating it once again,

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I I posted a Cartoon It said it is very true that those who do not study the past are doomed to repeat it

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But it is equally true that those who do study the past are doomed to sit around watch everybody else repeat it that doesn't study history and Helplessly to helplessly sit sit around while the past is repeated by those who don't study history, and it's true.

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It's just true So anyway They did not define justice as Equality of opportunity they define justice as equality of outcome.

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This is the issue This is the issue in listening for example to The The witness web they dropped the mic webcast from the witness as I did a run this morning so I listened to it on my run and You know one of the things that was said was well, why is the

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American Evangelical Church so white? To which

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I did not cry out while running and while breathing hard, but The thought crossed my mind

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Maybe because the majority of people in America are or at least certainly have been

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You know if the african -american population is like 10 % then would you expect it to be 50 %

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I mean doesn't make any sense When you're in a when you're in a minority the majority is going to be the majority you're gonna be the minority

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That's sort of obvious isn't it? I mean, I don't understand what the objection is until you start running everything through these lenses

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That do not come from scripture. And that's one of the things we were saying in the article is that While we all have lenses

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Scripture by its very nature and its consistency if it's handled the right can give us the mechanisms to see those

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Those lenses and to identify them the traditions and things like that I Go on they agreed with Karl Marx that disparities between privileged and underprivileged members of society are indicative of injustice

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Not and I stop again not that God gives gifts to certain people

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Not that it is God's will That there be people who are skilled in one area and I'm given certain gifts over here the gifts

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I'm given aren't going to allow me to get a hundred and sixty eight million dollar

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NFL contracts or NBA contracts or MLB or whatever else

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Do I have a ground for complaining about that well in a neo -marxist

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Style of thought yeah But not from a

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Christian worldview Neo -marxism cuts out all ground of Christian contentment when you think about how pastorally we seek to inculcate contentment with gods with the our lot in life and the gifts that God has given to us even in the midst of encouraging people to Use those gifts to the uttermost and to the fullest that's that's perfectly right.

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I want to honor God in that way, but the reality is that I've known my entire life that they're gonna people be people who will always have more than me

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Okay, that doesn't make me unhappy. I Choose not to be unhappy about that and that's because God has his ways and wisdom and and to be honest with you

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I don't want to be accountable for as much as somebody else might be accountable for in the final day

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Because you're gonna be you're gonna answer for those things anyway They believe privileged members of society and underprivileged members of society make up the oppressor and the oppressed

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Therefore for them justice social justice meant a limited eliminating disparities between groups in society

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They conclude that justice is when a society implements a system that produces equality of outcome for groups instead of equality of opportunity for individuals

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This is why disparities between men and women and disparities between white Americans and black Americans are two of the biggest issues for social justice

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Activists today. This is why white privilege and male privilege are two of the biggest social justice buzzwords today

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And it was interesting That in listening to drop the mic that one of the statements was about look at the lack of women

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These men these brothers are deeply influenced by this kind of Thinking well, they and I don't think they recognize it and I don't seem at all to be willing

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To listen to anyone pointing it out. That's for sure But what you'll get in Samuel's article is a a brief and yet very clear

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Understanding of what the issues are as he says the neo -marxist and critical theorist understanding of social justice is

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Overwhelmingly the definition for social justice today That is how colleges and universities define social justice.

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That is how my professors describe social justice to me that is how many dictionaries define social justice for his instance

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Google and the Oxford Dictionary define social justice as justice in terms of the distribution of wealth opportunities and privileges in a society and Quote so one that so in the vast majority of instances

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The problem we're experiencing that has been exposed very clearly through the releasing of this statement is that You have a large number of people

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Utilize when when social justice is discussed within the church you define it as biblical justice

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But when it's when application is made in society in the voting booth

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It's social justice as defined within society and That's why there wasn't a specific definition as In just a single quote because then everybody's gonna say well, that's not what

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I believe Unless you listen really carefully and closely and then you discover it's at the foundation of everything they believe

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Of everything they believe So if you go a statement on social justice comm articles

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Samuel says article Social justice is a threat to human rights in the gospel. It's lit just I Just I just wanted to make

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Samuel happy Samuel yeah, that's that's gonna be a meme, isn't it?

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Yeah, that's gonna be a meme right there It's that's great memes about everything on earth being lit now

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And that's just the way that I'm just I'm counting down the seconds until Kofi's thing appears on Twitter Saying something he said it again

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Yeah, so anyway, all right. Let's step away from that for just a moment And Let me talk a little bit

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I Sort of got off track and I was gonna do this toward the beginning but let me talk a little bit about Florida What an interesting weekend

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I Think I've only been to Jacksonville once before and I I did ask

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The the the pastor of the of the Switzerland Community Church. That was the church that put all this stuff together

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You know what? Rich, do you know what the poor brother's name is? Joseph Smith jr. I mean, it's

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Joseph Smith jr. And You know, we had a little discussion about name -changing things things like that But you know, there's there's a lot of people today that don't know

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Who Joseph Smith jr. Was historically so it maybe it's not that bad, but it just makes polygamy jokes and stuff like that just way way way too easily and golden Bibles and and stuff like that, but Anyhow, the guys there did a did a great job.

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They're a bunch of young guys I I mean they seem to be around the age of Josh.

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So I was Feeling Energized by the time

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I I spent with them Oh Skyman was was born there.

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Well, look at that Now what surprises me a little bit to find out Skyman was born there

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Is I did ask okay What which Jackson is this city named after?

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Because there are Politically correct Jackson's and politically incorrect

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Jackson's and According to Google Hey Google It was named after Andrew Jackson So Andrew Jackson, that's cool.

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If it was Thomas Stonewall Jackson. Well, I would imagine there would be

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Problems the same name just you know, so anyhow Man, is it humid there?

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I Went out the first morning I was there and I You know, it's yeah, it's humid but you know, so I'm right sunrise

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I'm running and felt pretty good you know, so I I went ahead and went a full 5k out and turned around and then it was like It's like it hit me.

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Oh my goodness by the time I got back. Oh It really really was it was it was rough it would be hard to live with that kind of humidity and we got some real

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Rock and rainstorms while I was there too, but they would last for like 35 seconds and then start up again

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Two minutes later is sort of sort of weird how that how that worked Anyway the first night we did an event at Gordon Conwell's campus there in Jacksonville, and it was basically a

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Discussion between Dr. Brown and myself on How we've managed to work together as well as debate each other

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Over the years and to have such a close friendship with one another in in the process and I'm a little surprised that I think it's because other stuff's going on right now

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I'm a little surprised there hasn't been you know, just 47 ,000 nasty articles

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And videos and everything else on on the net

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About that particular discussion we got into all sorts of stuff and There's a good group there

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They really seem to enjoy the the exchange the give -and -take the back -and -forth

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And I think what made it especially useful was if you were there for that discussion where we talked about a lot of our differences and yet what binds us together in our

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Devotion to Christ and his truth and his gospel We got to flesh out the next night now some people

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Have said about the debate. Well, that wasn't fair It's sort of like, you know when

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I debate this one fellow in South Africa Some of the Muslims after is like that that wasn't fair our

44:56

Muslim guy wasn't able to even compete You know, why did you pick him?

45:03

Etc, etc, etc. Well The reality is trying to find meaningful debate

45:11

Partners opponents on that subject is extremely difficult.

45:19

I When I was first contacted and asked would you be willing to come do this? I'm like, well, yeah, but I'll be perfectly honest

45:27

I'm highly skeptical that even if you find some two people That would say they'd be willing to do this.

45:40

I See I just can't see this happening and What's interesting is one of the original two people did withdraw just as I predicted and for pretty much the reasons

45:51

I predicted and But Chris Arnton kept pushing on and and the the head the moderator of the

46:02

Metropolitan Community Church suggested Ruth the female debater and And So I Was just thankful if there was any discussion at all

46:14

Because I was of the opinion that there was a very high possibility even a probability

46:22

That the whole thing would fall apart and it wouldn't even take place So it did and what was for me anyway

46:34

The highlight of that evening was in fact the demonstration that the

46:42

Trinity debate that took place now not sure how many years ago where Michael and I debated two

46:51

Unitarians Anthony buzzard and Joseph good as I recall their names on the doctrine of the

47:00

Trinity That that was not a fluke

47:08

Now Michael and I had no, you know before we did that debate. We had maybe exchanged a few emails

47:15

We saw each other in the makeup room beforehand because it was a television thing. So you had to put makeup.

47:20

I hate that But we were gonna be under television lights, so I guess you don't want to look like a corpse you've got to do that and so we

47:31

That was the only time we spent together before the debate and yet the the common comment for years now as people have viewed that was

47:44

Just couldn't believe how you guys were finishing each other's sentences and you just you just work hand in glove

47:50

It just what didn't seem fair. In fact during the break. I went out and summer was in the audience for that that debate and She was like I sort of feel bad for the heretics

48:07

The same thing happened in in the debate on Saturday night

48:15

We did purposefully Asked to stay seated for the rebuttal period so that we could sort of do a free -flow

48:30

Work off of each other, you know type of a response and That went really really well that was in fact someone someone came up to me the next day and said it it sounded like you all had scripted that and had memorized your parts and We didn't it was just I'd go for a minute and then

48:59

Pick up the sentence there and he'd go for a minute and I it wasn't just a minute but it just took a place of logical break and and Just float for 15 minutes back and forth back and forth and then we'd like for example during the cross examination we could just simply glance at each other and who wants that one and it would just be a

49:23

You take it. Okay, I'll take it, you know because we know Each other's areas and what you know might be a person's strongest response or something like that and So Yeah, the other side did not present much of an argument.

49:41

I mean a Lot of people say Ruth and Naomi what?

49:50

Look if you've read as much as Michael and I have read in the other sides literature

50:00

You've heard all that stuff before I think time only kept

50:06

Dwayne from going to David and Jonathan Or the at that point he didn't want to talk about the

50:13

Old Testament. I don't know which but Yeah, we've heard all that before we were we were prepared for the centurions

50:21

Pius and And Michael has read

50:27

I think probably a little more literature than I have not by much When new books come out

50:33

I'll contact him have you seen this and and sometimes yes, sometimes no it all depends and It's not fun having to read all that stuff, but you sort of have to keep up with it a little bit

50:46

But we were able to present a very very clear Presentation of the gospel and of the biblical perspective on human sexuality homosexuality and things like that, so now

51:06

I Felt badly for Michael. He actually had to check out of the hotel because I went back to the hotel at night

51:12

And I did two services At Switzerland community and by the way, I linked

51:17

I don't think I linked on the blog or on Not sure if it was Facebook But I did two sermons they were supposed to be the same sermon but Jake there at the at the church actually flowed the idea of posting both of them.

51:36

They don't normally only post one of the two But they ended up being rather different in order of presentation and emphasis and stuff like that and sometimes happens when you

51:49

Preach a sermon and I did not have an outline didn't have a have a single word of notes

51:57

Ephesians 2 was my only notes and so That can result in you going different directions each time you do it

52:08

Anyway, but it has been posted on YouTube the sermons

52:15

But Excuse me, Michael. See I'm just thinking about poor Michael. I started getting tired Michael had to drive to Vero Beach that night three hours a three hour drive after the debate

52:31

He left probably 930. That means he probably got to bed around 1 and then had multiple services the next morning.

52:38

So That was that was that was that was pretty rough

52:45

I Wouldn't have wanted to have done something like that. But anyway So the debate has already been posted.

52:52

I believe I imagine we will get links to it eventually and and put it into the

52:58

Alpha Omega Ministries stuff on homosexuality on the on the web and things like that, but It was a wonderful opportunity.

53:08

I think it was very very clear. I'm not claiming the other side made much of a Argument but I think most people today

53:18

Would be more influenced by the emotional arguments coming from especially

53:23

Ruth then We might wish so I think it was it was useful along that along that line, so Hopefully that was helpful to you saw a lot of people afterwards very thankful for all the people

53:41

Who afterwards were saying? Wow, you know that was really encouraging

53:47

I was there or Watching you and Michael working together was just Wonderful, or whatever else might be we did see those things even though we were busy and then traveling back on Sunday You know my my initial flight out of Jacksonville got pushed back by hours

54:04

And so I had to reroute and do all that same stuff And thanks to American Airlines for getting me back even earlier than I would have anyways

54:12

And I only had to wait one day for my bag But they got me where I needed to go so I I appreciate that so it was it was a good weekend my thanks to everybody there at Switzerland Community Church They discovered how much work it really is to put something like that together and And of course

54:36

You you have you have Chris Arnzen at the beginning of the debate

54:43

Commenting because the comment had already been made. Maybe I don't think when he was there, but did you notice the sort of Japanese looking?

54:53

Folding type background Behind where the debate took place well

55:00

They do that because there's a bunch of musical instruments and a huge drum kit and stuff like that back there and so Rather than just having that as your background they put that thing up well

55:14

It does look a little Japanese. You know and so so of course

55:20

Chris can't can't resist it and comes up with something about and You know he's talking about thanking all the people who are involved and thanks to such -and -such

55:30

Japanese sushi restaurant or something like that for for the background and stuff like that and It was it was it was hilarious.

55:37

You know I'm sure Chris could have gone for another 20 minutes

55:44

Probably had all that information just in the back of his head. Just just ready to go Waiting for Twitter to explode.

55:52

Yeah, no Oh So now I just looked over Kofi says make sense now sheologians is definitely lit

56:03

Wow, okay Whatever okay,

56:08

I Will try to not use it anymore at least today because I would imagine if you use lit too many times in the same episode

56:16

You might cause a fire which could could Yeah, I I didn't get to really see it yeah is lit

56:27

There I there I go yep Who has the time

56:34

I mean Apparently apparently Rodrigo gone vase rod or somebody

56:42

Has the time to screen cap and is lit right across my forehead. That's that's good

56:50

Anyway All right So one last thing here

57:01

I'll probably go just a little bit over an hour that that's a wonderful thing. I was telling Michael because I was also on Line of fire and people like to say that when

57:10

I'm on it becomes the dividing line of fire So it's sort of a mixed mix thing but we did a live thing where again, you know taking calls and and Michael has the same

57:24

Screening thing that we've got except. There's like 25 lines in it I'm sorry yeah, it is yeah, it's portable and so we were taking calls from folks and again, it's

57:40

Vast majority of the calls were answering the exact same way feeding off one another Even when someone calls up and tries to divide the two of us.

57:47

You know we handle it really well it was It was it was really enjoyable And that's available out there too.

57:54

I forgot to mention that particular one if you want to bring that up, but What I mentioned to Michael when

58:03

I was on was you know, the nice thing is the dividing line You do it when you want to do it

58:08

You do it for I was long as you want to do it and you don't have to worry about watching that clock and gonna have to have music coming up and all the rest that stuff and It might not reach as wide an audience then again we might

58:23

But you can talk about what you need to talk about when you need to talk about it And that's that's anything speaking of which the plan is that we will

58:32

Be doing another program tomorrow instead of Thursday because Well, I'll just be straightforward with you if I don't go out

58:42

Thursday night To A high -altitude place of darkness

58:50

To try to get some more pictures of the Milky Way and maybe of the Andromeda galaxy maybe of alberio

59:00

I Won't have a chance to do it again. Thanks to travel and the moon until November and I've been putting stuff together for months and So it's my one shot the weather is going to be okay, not perfect, but okay and so I I need to get out there where it's totally dark and Hopefully get some really neat pictures of the

59:26

Milky Way and a few other things in In the process, it's just people say wow.

59:32

Why are you why do you do stuff like that? It's beautiful. It's fantastic. It's awesome. It's part of God's creation and I live in a city where you don't get to see it

59:41

And then once you find out it's up there you start realizing. Hey, you know what I could I can actually Locate the exact center of our galaxy where there is a supermassive black hole

59:53

Sagittarius a star and Stuff like that I Realize, you know,

01:00:01

I I know some folks I try to get them excited about and there's sort of like They don't care yeah, if you're you're satisfied with just looking at this one little planet and there's a whole lot more out there

01:00:12

That's up to you Anyway, so we will be doing the program tomorrow and maybe we'll just open the phone lines over and up then and Go from that go from there tomorrow, but I Was highly tempted to do a a full response to Jamar Tisby and the drop the mic

01:00:39

Guys, but as I said, they decided to break it up into multiple parts

01:00:45

What happened was? Once I read the article that was put up on September 6th

01:00:55

Battle lines form over social justice. Is it gospel or heresy? By Jamar Tisby and On social media

01:01:07

I got in contact with I think the other gentleman I'm thinking That it was the other gentleman that was actually on the program today

01:01:17

When I listened today The program was yesterday or at least it was posted yesterday and Was basically told no, we're we're not interested

01:01:29

Dialoguing with you. We're not interested in coming on the program not interested in talking about these things

01:01:35

We've said we need to say and that's it Well, here's here's the problem

01:01:43

There were a number of things said in the course of the article What really really interests me is there is a section

01:01:59

In the Statement on social justice not just a statement of social justice, but it's the one we're talking about That says quote we affirm that some cultures operate on assumptions that are inherently better Than those of other cultures because of the biblical truths that inform those worldviews

01:02:24

That have produced these distinct assumptions now, I'll be honest with you

01:02:31

I didn't write those words But I read those words in the cooperative editing process.

01:02:39

I may have suggested some edits to it or Added a word.

01:02:47

I don't remember but it never struck me as As anything other than a self -evident obvious duh statement

01:02:58

Needs to be said But it's not debatable. It's just that obvious and Yet there has been nothing that I have seen nothing that I've seen that has triggered

01:03:12

The social justice mindset of so many

01:03:18

Than that statement, I mean it's almost like God providentially put it in there as a big huge spotlight that just turns on and tells you as someone reads this who the folks are that have been deeply influenced by Extra biblical categories of thought as Samuel say outlines in the article

01:03:50

Jamar tisby responds to it by saying the best word to describe the assertion above is ethnocentric.

01:03:55

He repeated down the program ethno Centric, let me repeat again. And let me see if you can find where the ethno is

01:04:01

Okay, we affirm that some cultures operate on assumptions that are inherently better than those of other cultures

01:04:10

Because of the biblical truths that inform those worldviews that have produced these distinct assumptions

01:04:16

So all it is is a statement it's a simple biblical statement that every

01:04:21

Christian should just go yeah, duh That is simply stating that the more closely one cultures laws and beliefs align with biblical revelation the better off they'll be and The farther away the more rebellious the more you suppress the light the worse you'll be

01:04:45

But you see if you don't have a biblical worldview, but you think you have a biblical worldview But what you actually have is like a neo -marxist worldview, but you don't know that You call it something else you call it a biblical worldview, but it didn't come from Bible It didn't come from that context.

01:05:01

It's come from other stuff and you've been told that's what it is Then you hear that you go

01:05:08

There's not one culture better than another culture. Yes, there is

01:05:14

Yes, there is Let me quote Jesus to you when he talked about the cities of his day

01:05:25

Capernaum for example and then contrasted them with the cities of old even

01:05:31

Tyre and Sidon Sodom and Gomorrah Was there not a clear gradation in these

01:05:41

Even city -states as to how much revelation they had what they did with that The point was great revelation given today.

01:05:50

They reject the Son of God. It's gonna be more tolerable for those other societies because of that suppression

01:05:58

Great light has come to Capernaum rejects it Not much light back then.

01:06:04

There'll be a different standard justice In that obvious And so when you're talking about entire cultures the more light you have that you then incorporate into the law and fabric of your society

01:06:22

In obedience to God that makes for a better society but you see

01:06:29

The people the world don't have a category for better society. I've heard people so they

01:06:37

I've heard people who are Christians Not recognizing how deeply influenced they've been by a worldly worldview saying how dare anyone say

01:06:47

That one society is better than another. Um, God says it It's obvious The only reason that you go to war against Germany in World War two is because you're saying our way of doing things is better than your way of doing things in this obvious, yes, it's very obvious and that's how

01:07:08

Overwhelming of simple common sense this type of leftist reasoning can be that you're triggered by the idea that a society that has more

01:07:22

Alignment with biblical revelation is better than a society that rebels against biblical revelation

01:07:28

It's all it is. It's not ethnocentric has not it's theocentric not ethnocentric

01:07:34

If you think it's ethnocentric I submit to you that your worldview has been deeply influenced by stuff that it shouldn't be influenced by as a

01:07:41

Christian Shouldn't be influenced by now. There's a lot more in well, well, well, but but And this didn't come up on the program today.

01:07:54

And so That's why I'm not playing it But After that brief ethnocentric thing

01:08:08

Where he says who gets to decide which cultures and which assumptions are closer to biblical truth? Anybody reading a

01:08:17

Bible, I mean you look at a tribe that sacrifices their children to a hideous snake

01:08:27

God and Then you look at a nation that takes seriously the

01:08:32

Word of God and protects their children and I go better That's not ethnocentric Jamar.

01:08:38

That's common -sense Jamar Real simple real. I don't have

01:08:45

I just don't even know how you'd even begin to defend something. I just don't know I cannot imagine it.

01:08:51

Did you really mean what you? For Most American history white Christians have claimed that privilege that privilege is now being challenged has nothing to do with race

01:09:00

You you are so locked into Skin color categories that you just you can't get out of the box.

01:09:08

That's nothing to do with it at all Anyway, he says

01:09:13

I'm tempted to refute the recent statement on the gospel and social justice point by point really

01:09:20

Well, I'm glad that you are Capable of engaging in in that Showing how it falls short of the

01:09:29

Bible's call for justice, but I think our time bears spent on other pursuits

01:09:34

There's too much work to be done work that will be delayed by endless debates. Yes, okay

01:09:40

I could refute you, but I'm too busy Okay Here's my advice

01:09:46

He says many of the people who authored and signed this statement have large ministries and platforms avoid them

01:09:55

Find other authors preachers and teachers from whom you can learn People like Austin Channing Brown or the podcasters and bloggers at truce table or the witness where I am a contributor

01:10:05

Or read Howard Thurman the Reverend Martin Luther King jr Brian Stevenson James Baldwin or the other writers who have explored issues of justice if the supporters of statements that dismiss social justice

01:10:16

As a distraction from the gospel headline a major conference state your concerns the organizers if nothing changes

01:10:22

Then don't go If they do an interview on a podcast find another episode to listen to if they write more blogs state their case share other ones

01:10:30

Instead so what are we here? We could refute you But you're not worth it.

01:10:36

We're gonna segregate from you We're gonna put you off in the corner now We're gonna knock it.

01:10:41

We're not gonna say you're not Christians, but we're gonna treat you like you're not Christians We because you see

01:10:48

One of the ways that we're treating them as Christians is that we're saying how about giving us some biblical pushback some

01:10:56

Biblical interaction something that's other than 99 % of what we've gotten so far, which is just hand -wringing

01:11:04

Leftist progressive, I can't believe you actually said that you people are a bunch of slave owners Clap -tap.

01:11:09

It's just ridiculous This is there's there's been almost no meaningful essence to what has been said

01:11:17

I mean, why why doesn't somebody come to us with a

01:11:22

Bible in their hand and a serious desire to exegete the text

01:11:28

Rather than I did you I'm triggered by this and I'm offended by that and blah blah blah blah so you show

01:11:37

That you believe someone's actually a Christian by actually challenging them so I listened to their podcast today and There were lots of things

01:11:49

I wanted to point out where I'm like, did you hear what you just said here? I mean, this is some you want to talk about but my blind spots, but man,

01:11:57

I listened to your side you are not listening to the other side and When do you do, you know, like if you obsess over the statement on Social justice in the gospel as if that's some type of power trip.

01:12:11

Wow Those lenses are thick. I Mean, I don't know how you don't run into walls wearing lenses that thick.

01:12:21

So I'm trying to listen I'm trying to hear I mean it never would have crossed my mind and So I'm like, okay that power thing that that power dynamics thing

01:12:32

You don't get that from the New Testament. You're not getting that from Paul But you do get it from the stuff you're getting in your universities and stuff and that does seem to indicate a few things but I'm willing to have

01:12:48

Jamar Tisbe on I'd love to have him explain how that statement is ethnocentric But instead we get is avoid them.

01:12:57

Don't listen to them Don't even listen to podcasts that they might be on don't read their books.

01:13:03

Don't go to come just shun them self segregate and I'm sitting around going hmm, we've said for a long time has something to do with you know, causing division in the church and and Here's here's one of the main leaders and he's counseling

01:13:23

Oh division in the church That's what it is That's what

01:13:29

Kyle Howard was doing And that's what Jamar Tisbe is doing

01:13:35

And I don't think from what was said at the end of the podcast today that the next episode is gonna change any of that I have a feeling it's only going to Expand upon that good bit so There you go avoid them avoid them don't listen don't listen to this

01:13:55

I don't listen to this I just just listen to ours Okay, there you go, there you go all right, so Maybe You know

01:14:09

I had said before we had to do the response last time we're gonna do something about open phones

01:14:16

Now I said it again, so I suppose probably would be time to Do some open phones tomorrow?

01:14:25

so Yeah, I guess the same time is fine 2 p .m.

01:14:31

We'll do at least an hour worth of open phones. We'll see how the how the calls are going and So we'll we'll go with that from there.