Christian High-Schoolers Ask LDS Tough Questions

Apologia Utah

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Hey, can I give you a gospel track? Have you ever heard the gospel? Not the biblical gospel.

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What's uh, what's your name? Ashlyn, my name is Dax. Nice to meet you. So, what are you doing in Provo?

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What are you doing up here? Ah, BYU? Oh nice, so you're LDS? Awesome.

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So, uh, how old are you? 23. Nice. Have you served a mission? Well, awesome.

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Where'd you go? Argentina. Wow. How was that? Good? Nice.

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Did you grow up here in Utah? Always been LDS? Okay. So, uh, why did you, why'd you move all of a sudden to Utah?

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Really? What are you studying? Linguistics. Awesome.

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Well, um, we're Reformed Baptists, right? We're from a church in Murray called Apologia. We're out here just trying to spread the gospel to our

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Mormon neighbors. You know, we love them. We're not trying to condemn you guys. We're here, we want you guys to know the living and true

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God. We want you guys to know the gospel and know how you can be saved.

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There's still hope in Christ. So, are you familiar with your guys' doctrines? Like the, like the

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King Paul discourse, for example? Okay, that Joseph taught, you know, he says you suppose and learn that God has been

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God for all eternity. He says I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see that you need to learn to become

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God yourself one day, right? And then God in the Bible in Isaiah 43 10, he says before me no

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God was formed, neither shall there be after me. And then Isaiah 44 6, he says

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I am the first and the last, besides me there is no God. So we have this prophet,

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Joseph Smith, came after 2000, er, about 1800 years after Christ, claiming that, you know,

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God has not been God for all eternity and that you can become a God one day when God plainly in his word describes himself as the only

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God. So how would you reconcile that as an LDS member? Sure, yeah.

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Can you name any? Sure, so, some that you're referring to,

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I would like to point you to, you're probably referring to, is it 1st Corinthians 5? 5 8, where it says, you know, there are many gods and many lords, if you've ever heard of that.

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That's actually misrepresented. That's not what it's talking about. If you go to Psalm 80 verse 2, or it says, that's, he's quoting from the

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Psalm of David, and it says, you know, there are indeed there are many gods and many lords, but they will die like men.

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So he's not talking about actual becoming a God like Joseph taught. He's talking about idols in that, and that everyone has a

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God, but they will die like men. They're not the infallible God, the sovereign God of the Bible. So my hope for you is that Joseph taught all these things.

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He taught that you are saved in Nephi, 2nd Nephi 25 23. He says, you are saved by the grace of God after all you can do.

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So you receive this grace after all you can do. Moroni 10 32, with all your, if you love

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God with all your heart, strength, and mind, then His grace is sufficient for you. So do you believe, as an

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LDS member, that you have to work for these things to receive the grace of God, as your prophet has taught?

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But do you believe that Christ's atonement was fulfilled solely on the cross, when he said it was finished?

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That all, all sin has been paid for. It was finished on that cross. Do you believe that? But you still have to, so, so you believe that Christ dying on the cross was fulfilled, right?

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And that you don't need to atone for any of your sins no longer. Okay, so you have to do these things, right?

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And in the Articles of Faith that says, you know, we believe that all men can be saved by, by obeying the ordinances of the gospel, right?

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So you have to do these things. So you would roll with, um, my bad brother. No, you're good. You would roll with, uh, Articles of Faith, number three, where it says, we believe that men are saved through the atonement of Jesus Christ, through the obedience to the gospel ordinances, and things like that.

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You would say that? Okay, so you would say that you would, you would add faith plus words. Yes, but, as I've said, as humans, we are imperfect, and that's why we need

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Christ. Because, even when we try our best, we're never going to make it. Now, so, well, did you know in Galatians chapter one, in the letter to the

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Galatians, the Galatians were actually guilty of the same thing. Paul actually tells them that you've fallen from grace, because they did not accept the gospel by which they received first.

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It was the great, uh, gospel of faith, by faith alone and Christ alone. They actually rejected that.

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And there were Jews who were sneaking in, and they're actually teaching circumcision. They said that you can be saved. Yes, you can have Christ.

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You can have faith. But, if you do this one law, if you do one thing, and it's a circumcision, if you add that on top of Christ's work, then you will be saved.

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But Jesus actually, or Paul, rather, he said that they fell from Christ. They were severed from Him. They fell from grace, because they tried to add their own works, and the atonement of Christ.

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So, the Bible actually teaches a different gospel than the one that you're quoting us right now. Where it says, no, no, no, we have to strive, but, you know, we can't strive enough.

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Well, actually, the Bible actually says that in Isaiah, I believe it's 64. I'm not sure, but it's in Isaiah.

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It says, your good works are dirty, dirty rags. They don't mean anything to God. Only apart from your sin can they mean anything, but the

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Bible says we're born sinners, naturally sinful. So, our good deeds don't mean anything to God.

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And that's why, that's the point of the gospel. The good news is that Christ does all these good works, so that He pays for our sins on the cross, and rising again, so that we too might raise again.

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But your Book of Mormon actually denies that. It actually says in Moroni 10, verse 32,

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After denying all ungodliness, loving the Lord your God with your heart, soul, mind, and strength, then will grace be sufficient for you?

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But Paul actually says in Romans 11, 6, he says, if it is of grace, it is no longer works. If it is of works, it is no longer grace, but of debt.

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A debt due to the person who works for it. And so, your church is teaching a different gospel. That's all we're trying to point out.

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We're trying to point out that your guys' church believes that you must work to heaven.

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That in order to receive the atonement of Christ, in terms of receive the grace, you must work. And we're just trying to show you that through Scripture, through what the apostles taught, through what

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Jesus taught, it's only solely by grace. It's only solely by the death of Christ on the cross, Him being crucified for sinners.

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That's the only thing that can save men. And the same thing with when my brother was trying to get at you guys having a different God.

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Nowhere in Scripture, nowhere in the Bible does it ever talk about becoming a God. Maybe you're referring to the passage where Jesus says, well, thou shalt be perfect as thy

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Father in heaven is perfect. You probably could be thinking of that one, or the one that my brother just quoted to you.

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He, our God. He, our God. Well, we love you.

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We give you these tracts. These tracts just go to what we disagree on. The doctrine that we disagree on as who

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God is, what the gospel is. And the Bible says, test all things and hold fast to what is true.

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So if you claim to be a follower of Christ, you will test all things. So test your church.

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Test your doctrine. Test your doctrine. See if it aligns with the Word of God. That's all we're trying to push here.