Marks of being in a cult

Open Air Theology

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I Know All right, we are live ladies and gentlemen, welcome to open -air theology, my name is

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Jeff I am one of the pastors of Covenant Reform Baptist Church I also have a

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YouTube channel called my two cents with Jeff Rice and that's since with a

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Z and I'm also one of the owners of post tenor bruslux Bible rebinding and I'm here today with my brother haps haps

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Introduce yourself Well, hi, I'm pastor haps Addison with all of ranch ministries and I'm also the the host of R &B studios

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And I am your huckleberry pastor Brayden from Hagerman, Idaho Just super blessed to be here with you guys tonight.

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I also have a YouTube channel called reformed ex -mormon Where we just do a lot of good different topical stuff.

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So it's a blessing to be here tonight Yeah, we need to work on hats passing the mic.

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You know, yeah Scoot everything over The different pages and everything,

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I'm sorry. Yeah, if you ever asked me Jeff, what do I suck at? Well that that's it. That's it

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That's it. See I was that that's why I was it. That's why I was a bad drug addict I never passed you never passed.

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You never shared. No poor guy. So what is our Our talk for tonight gentlemen, what are we talking about tonight?

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The different marks of a cold Yeah things that we need to be in a cold yes

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Now this is something that one of the three of us know quite a bit about Right, just a little bit just a little bit

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So so I some of y 'all may not know and some of y 'all do know Brayden was spent 19 years

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Was it Brayden? Yep, 19 years. Yes. Yeah, so he spent 19 years as a

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Latter -day Saint Yep, and so Like I know of no one else

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That I want with me when I'm talking to a Mormon nor do I know of no one else

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I think needs to be in this discussion of Marks of being in a cold.

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Yeah now, you know like whenever we first interviewed you Brayden before you actually came on to be a co -host we uh,

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I told you that I used to go to a Mormon church like there's a period of time where where I actually thought serious about becoming

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Mormon and Now, of course this was before my salvation I was reading the Bible and I was studying

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Yeah, but it was before my salvation and and even then I felt God Drawing me away from it.

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But at the same time there is a spirit there in Mormonism that draws you to it Absolutely, and to say that there isn't you are out of your mind

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Yeah, there is a strong spirit attached to Mormonism, but we're not on here just to talk about Mormonism.

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We're on here to talk about all different cults and just the marks of it, but That's just a just and I just thought

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I would kind of reiterate to people refreshing their minds that you You know, you are a part of a cult at one time

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And so is there anything you like to say about that before we get going? I mean, you know, yeah the only way

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I was brought out of a cult was by the grace of God and so I'm very very thankful for those things and Looking back at it now just to reiterate what you said

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I think it's something that you'll find in every cult is that there's very Persuasive strong ties that hold people into a cult and hold them from even opening their eyes opening their

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Bibles opening up their ears considering what other people are saying around them and My heart goes out to those kind of individuals so if I think that throughout this whole conversation today if there's anything that's making the the hairs on the back your neck start to stand up or You're starting to maybe

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I shouldn't be listening these guys because of what they're saying my church wouldn't approve of it or whatnot that that should be red alarms for you, and I would highly encourage you to reach out to one of the three of us and We can discuss them some biblical doctrine with you very good so Now I normally have like a little list of things that I wrote down, but I figured

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I'm not the You know Like whenever we whenever we were messaging back and forth

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List and Braden just like I was trying to hit like one two points and this dude wrote a book

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Figure you know since he is a co -host and everything like I just let him Take off, but I also like to hear from haps first two before we begin.

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How's what you thought about this? About the marks of a cult well from my experience and I just say experience because a lot of us can draw from experience by watching

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YouTube or Listen to other people, but when you really interact with people that have that are in cults or coming out of cults

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I know here in Southern, California I mean my gosh I have

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Scientology the Golden Era Productions in the next town over With their golf course and apartment buildings

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We have charismatic cults we have All different types that really a lot of them have spawned out of a

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Protestant Protestantism, excuse me, no front teeth hard to say But a lot of Jehovah's Witness I got a

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Mormon temple right behind me, you know But yeah dealing with a lot of them, you know, but I've come to find out is a lot of them have

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Either they have been if it's something like Jehovah's Witness or Mormons. They've really been brought up in it

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I never heard of a conversion to Mormon. I never met anybody that that that's you know happened to but it's

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For the lot a lot of the people that I've met. It's just a part of their culture their family and all that kind of stuff and And they're they're diehard

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II. I mean they they got a spirit. I mean, it's real, you know Yeah, same with Jehovah's Witnesses, you know, absolutely

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So around me I probably I have a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day

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Saints LDS Church, probably two and a half minutes from my house There's a

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Jehovah's Witness. That's pretty church It's pretty active and there's a a lot of one is

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Pentecostal churches around in this area and some of them are not Like they're not exactly

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You know like you can go to a church service You can look at the sign and stuff like that and they don't advertise it.

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So yeah, like they're very tricky on how they suck people in So we had these two ladies that were members of our church

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They left because they needed something they wanted something that was they had kissed church And so they started attending a church which at first I didn't raise any eyebrow and then we looked on their their website and they you know that they said that God was

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That there was one God with three personalities Right and so modalism and and so And when well, that's a cult.

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So but when it comes to Again, like I mentioned before I was a

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Christian. I was going to a Mormon Church. So I would go to my church at the time which was

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Haywood Hills Baptist Church Pastor at the time was Philip Barnett. I was going there and then whenever church would let out

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I'd go eat and then I would go to this Mormon Church right down the street and then when it was over with I would go back to my the

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Baptist Church that I was a part of and I did that for several several months and Then you know just studying and listening realizing that at the

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Mormon faith. This is false it's a cult and you know at this time God was still working with me and You know

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It was recent right right after that is when I believe that that God snatched me from the fire

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But after that I began to teach at this church and I was teaching a wind

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I went to this church for a long time I was teaching a Wednesday night class and one of the young ladies that was in the class with me

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Started getting visited by Jehovah's Witnesses and I really didn't know anything about them but eventually she left the church and went and became a

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Jehovah's Witness and Man, I tell you what it really it really ate me alive and and that right there really

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Really got me. It really challenged me to know

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Not just to believe something but to know what I believe and and why I'm not just know what

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I believe But why it is that I believe it. Mm -hmm. And so it challenged me to study and it challenged me to have a defense to have an apologia whenever I If I'm ever confronted with that again, and so I started studying and now

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For the last 10 -12 years if I see a Jehovah's Witness, I'm stopping. Yep.

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They're walking this neighborhood. I'm walking it with them I see a Mormons. I'm stopping. Yeah, the dependent one is

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Pentecostal is you like they don't really look any different Nor do I see them walking the streets going door -to -door, but yeah,

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I think I'm sorry. I think that the the experiences I've had and down here with it there.

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I think it's a little more extreme Because we have cults down here like Like I don't know if you you know when

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I I posted that that we were gonna be doing this up on my Facebook One of the one of the guys commented on there.

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You should do it about this guy named lightning. Amen and that was a cult that was out here and it was it was it was huge and it's really started in the 70s and 80s got pretty big 90s and the guy had

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Had everybody believe even that in fact, I do you mind if I just share a quick little story real fast?

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No Okay, so The way I know about this it's over in homeland.

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All right and Homeland, California or was it is a home my aroma land and I was

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I Was on drugs This is years and years years ago And I was walking down the street and all of a sudden these two dudes come walking up to me looking like prophets

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I swear everything I Tell you right up. They came up to me and they said son and I was like, yeah, they go

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Are you thirsty and I go? Yeah, I'm thirsty. They go son Are you hungry and I go?

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Yeah, and they go. Oh Well, come with us dude, we're gonna feed you and give you water and I was like, oh, yeah sure man, you know

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So we go over to this It's all these there was all these mobile homes all together and they were all hooked up together and in the very center was a courtyard and We went in and we sat down and we sat down in these like it looked like a hen

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Like what you would put a chicken in. All right, and There's all these people dressed like like prophets all around me, you know and And the guy goes you're for a real surprise man.

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And I was like, oh awesome, dude and They brought us rice and beans because they were vegetarians

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They're all vegetarians and then all of a sudden this dude with long white beard long white hair all dressed in red

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Comes walking in with two women on both sides of them and he sits down and I go

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I Go, who's that? And the dude goes like this That's God like that and I go you mean

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Jesus Christ and he goes no, no, that's his father and I went Oh my gosh, you know But they had hundreds and hundreds

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All right, and he would make He would if you were married, he would make you make your wife have sex with them

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Because that's what God wanted and you had to sell everything you're you own and give it to him heavy there was drugs involved prostitution child molestation all kinds of stuff and it was well known and this is in the same town with the we had

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Christian science a whole plethora of Colts all around us, you know, and that's in that's in Hemet, you know and Roma land because they're all they're all these desert towns that became communes during the 60s and 70s with all the

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Colts, right? And so yeah, man, but they're real out here man, you know,

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I mean, it's like heavy -duty But anyways, yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, so Walter Martin, which

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I know you'll probably know him He wrote the book kingdom in the of the Colts. Yep. He made a statement

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He he said something about and like he gave a story about a friend of his who

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I Can't remember exactly but they went to and we're looking at money right, they were

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You know studying money counterfeit and so he asked him, you know you must have did a lot of studying like you must have handled a lot of counterfeit money in order to to You know

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To be someone that can detect counterfeit and the guys reply and I know I'm screwing this story up But the guys reply was no we handle

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Real money like we handle authentic hundred percent to the truth authentic true money

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He said we handle it all day weeks at a time. He says and by doing so whenever you're handed

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You know counterfeit money You don't even have to look at it just the feel of it, you know that it's false and And dr.

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Walt Walter Martin points to the fact that you know Truly when it comes to the

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Colts the occult are We don't have to go like I don't have to go and learn everything that Mormonism teaches

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I don't have to go and learn everything that Jehovah Witnesses One is

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Pentecostals or all these other cults teach all I gotta know is the authentic gospel

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I gotta know the one true God and His gospel what he has done for us to reconcile us to himself by sending his son

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And and I have to have and I got to handle this this message every day

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And by doing so when the false message comes I'll recognize it yes

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So if you want to go ahead with your list Yeah. Yeah, so Excuse me, no disrespect.

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No. No, this is perfect. It's gonna be published here one day. No Yeah, so maybe for before I even start reading this one of the debates

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I did with an LDS gentleman recently Connor was his name is the first debate. That's on my youtube channel

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I read with him act 1711 and he thought it was so funny that as a

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Christian I would go and read act 1711 Which is that there were no more noble men than the men of Thessalonian that searched scriptures daily to see if these things were so right and And he just couldn't fathom that as a

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Christian We we hold the Word of God is what truth is and that's our authority that we go back to and he was like Yeah, I was in on my mission and I remember even seeing

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Christian churches that were the Berean Baptists or the Berean this or the Berean that and I was like, well It's because that they're looking to the

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Word of God as what their standard is They aren't going to a charismatic leader or somebody that's making a suading argument.

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No, they're falling back on the Word of God And so I just wanted to make reference to that act 1711 before we look at these things

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Because that really has to be where we're anchored anchored that's where our guardrails are that's what that we are are looking to for any sort of truth any sort of Doctrinal belief is coming from the

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Word of God. And so just some of the things that I was writing some of this stuff I After I sent you guys that message

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I did go on to karm .org and looked at some of their stuff that they had on there so These are just all different identifiers of cults

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False religions and you wouldn't necessarily see each one of these and every single cult that you can see

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But you'll definitely see at least a few of these No doubt So one thing

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I have written is is some new sort of teaching or a revelation that is from God usually when somebody has this new teaching or revelation from God, it's

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Unduplicated and unprovable by evidence So an example of something like that in my own life

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Would be like Joseph Smith going out in the woods when he was 14 years old and praying and and him having this this completely non biblical contradictory to the word

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Experience where he claims to have seen both the father and the son No one else is around him.

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No one else can validate what his message or a story was and that is this the

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I Want to say that's that the starting of Mormonism, but that is definitely one of the highlights that they look to and if you look at all of Joseph Smith's experiences many of them are unvalidatable with with Not enough witnesses or not enough

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Extra sources and so when we look at like Jesus Christ who rose from the dead

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There was many people that saw him. There's there's recordings of this that took place. And so we have miracles that are provable externally

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These type of cults don't it's it's usually a single person using a testimony To validate these things another another one.

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I'll just go through some of this is that usually These cults will claim that they are the one and only true teaching or the one and only true church or the one and only true understanding of the of the

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Bible or their version of Scripture so that they hold that truth within it's not something that other people can can come to knowledge of it's

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Something that you can only come to knowledge of if you're inside this group Yes, we have a

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Church of Christ here and and in a town right next to me They believe that they are the only church

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Now, no, no, not just the Church of Christ in general, but they're building their their one piece

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Property church where people meet that they are the only church in the world. Mm -hmm

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Yeah, and so you can't you can't in that exit that that's a beautiful example, right because I'm assuming what they're teaching

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Is that you can't come to know who Jesus Christ is or who God is or truth? outside of their one building

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That's right. Like That's ridiculous People in Africa can come to the same conclusions that I am and they don't need to be a part of my church to do

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So right You'll use you and there are some of these things that are a little bit wishy -washy in some areas

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You'll you'll you'll get strong leadership. And what I mean by that is you have have men and or women that are very influential very charismatic very

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Persuasive in these ways and and with that leadership. It's a trickle -down you the type of Experience, right?

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So the guy at the top or the woman at the top is receiving all the revelation People underneath them

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I can have experiences and testimonies, but none of their things triumph what the leader is saying so he's the the source of this this knowledge or Guiding of the building or the church right a lot of times like a pyramid a pyramid.

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Yep. Absolutely like a pyramid scheme That's 100 % true and like I keep on I'll keep on going back to the

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LDS just because that's what I'm used to right but you have like the prophet the The twelve apostles underneath him the the quorum of the 70 and it just goes on and on and on But it falls back onto those core group of men

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The first presidency is another wording for it and it's everything in the church is dictated by those individuals

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Another thing that they'll do is is asset acquirement Which is kind of twofold depending on the severity of the cult you're in They will straight -up require you to give away all your possessions to them to have them be to the church

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And this would also all the way trickle down to even you are required to give 10 % of your time

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So you're you're required to give me money And if you don't give me money You'll either be excluded or you will not be given all the privileges that everyone else is that have done this

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Once again going back to the LDS if if if you don't give 10 % of your tithe of your total income

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You are not allowed to go into the LDS temple which is what they see as a requirement to be able to continue in advance to the celestial kingdom and So they are saying that To have in their mind true salvation true exaltation

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You have to give the church this 10 % tithe and so it's manipulating money

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It's acquiring these assets And I think that the Jehovah Witnesses that you made really good mention of earlier

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Jeff this next mark that I've noticed is Isolation Jehovah Witnesses are huge in isolation and and most cults are yeah if If somebody is to leave a

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Christian household We don't shun them. We don't close the door to them. We don't

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Not stop talking to them. We don't all these kind of things we continue to reach out We want to love on them or share the gospel with them our front doors open to them

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But if you are a part of a cult what you'll see is a shunning is that this person is is false

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Don't listen to him. Don't talk to them in fact there's some some Colts like Jehovah Witnesses that even if you're a family member and and you shut the door and even if you were to open the door

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For a minute, you're gonna be questioned hard by the church. They're not okay with the opening not with that, you know

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I'll tell you something. I've noticed particularly with the LDS and with Jehovah's Witnesses and witnessing with them there comes a point where they give up and they want to end the conversation and walk away and and that's when

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I point to to them that that there is That right there is the one of the biggest differences between Them and I because according to their belief

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If I die if I'm just you know, Jehovah's Witness if I die, well, I'm just going to face the annihilation

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Yeah. All right. Well if I'm talking with an LDS if I die

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I still will make it to some realm of heaven. Yep, right Versus versus if they die and I'm right which

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I am and They do not repent and put their faith in Jesus Christ alone

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Then they're going to go to hell. Yep, and I tell them I said look, you know the many times this has been true

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Look, my wife has been texting me suppers done. She wants to know where I am. But you know, what's more important?

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Yeah talking to you Amen Because I care about your turn eternal salvation.

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You do not care about mine Yep, because because again if you're right, which you're not

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I'm just gonna pass through some fire or I'm gonna make it to heaven either way it goes Yeah, I'm right and you know,

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I am you're gonna die and you're gonna bust hell wide open. Amen. Yeah, you know The there was a you know,

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I wrote down a couple things to just a couple of things, you know I was writing down a couple things.

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I Just wanted to what I've really seen out of these these things like cuz you know Like the way

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I see like Jehovah's Witness in Mormonism, they're really dying out, you know, they're they're really

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I mean They get three hundred and something thousand converts a year

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Joe was Yes, man, they're they're like they're they're like sending letters to us now, you know one time

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Yeah, but anyways what I've seen is

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Just just again what I've seen is a lot of them coming to these things up and they get love -bombed you know, they they get all this attention and all this and now they they because they didn't find their identity in Christ, but maybe because they went through a

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Church that really maybe it's an apostate church and they think that was Christianity.

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And so they they they tend to really get pushed into these things because the these cults and everything are like We have the answers for what's going on with all the churches out there

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We know what's wrong with them. They're the apostate Yeah, it's and we're the real deal. All right, because we hold the

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Torah or we hold I mean what whatever but um, They they're also their language change

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Their their language there. They actually start redefining words

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Oh, yeah, just normal everyday words, and and it's not a Reinterpretation of Scripture, it's a misinterpretation of Scripture.

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So and and so also And so they got an identity crisis and now they find their identity in whatever movement this is or it out now now that now

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It's like okay. It's it becomes a performance based Or workspace like I'm working towards something, you know like some like I'm I'm now

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I'm more spiritually whatever or But yeah, and it all comes down to really like I think we were talking about earlier like a form of legalism you know, it's every single time every person

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I've ever dealt with that have Because I have people that come in my home that have come out of hyper charismatic cults like I'll straight -up say cults you know or Hebrew roots or They it's they all have a different Jesus a different gospel a different spirit.

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Yep And you know, I think for a lot of people We just keep giving these guys passes and go.

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Well, they're they're Christians Well, they got a different gospel and a different Jesus and a different spirit

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We're not the Mormons pass Giving them a pass. Yeah, you know

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I was sent a weird video by my other pastor this afternoon

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Pastor Cal sent me a video and it's a supposed Christian Church non -denominational kind of charismatic or whatever and it was a

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Mother's Day message and And the guy brought a chair up on the stage

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He was talking about you know that most everyone of us in here have an empty chair and that empty chair is the mother who we used to bring to church that now has passed away and Then he said everyone in here who's had a mother that has passed away and now you have an empty chair

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Please come up to the stage and they all gathered around this chair And he says

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I want to tell you something your mother is in that chair go talk to her. Oh my god

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That's and people were bowing down to the chair Like it was weird and I just text back

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One of the reasons why I'm reformed And say that Orthodox has got it all wrong either.

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We're not spirit build or we're antinomian You know a all this nonsense

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Have some delicious chocolate milk. I'm just gonna say that right now. That was delicious No, that was straight -up chocolate milk

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It was No, and I think you guys are talking exactly like what my list is covering a lot of right is that they they

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Perhaps you said it. It's a workspace salvation. All these cults are they always teach they all do this

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It's all personal feelings to find truth. It's not an objective standard

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It's it's all subjective to how I feel about it at the time They Go to obscure Bible verses to build their most prolific and prominent doctrine when

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Those Bible verses have answers with the context and and what's going on at the time that they're written

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They redefine words like you said they view

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They view any and I think Jeff you were really talking about this with your experiences of talking with the

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LDS and Jehovah Witnesses As they will view other other you engaging with them lovingly showing them what the

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Word of God says as Persecution they they will be you all you have a spirit of contention because it's different than what

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I have grown up always Believing and so I got to shut you out right now. I got to turn off the TV in that sense

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I got a I got to stop this conversation and walk away and a lot of that stems from the fact that They just don't have those answers to provide back and I mean if you if you built a whole theology based off of how you were feeling at the time and that's what you what your

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Testimony is because that's what all these these different Colts have is a secret information that's only found inside themselves that cannot be verified without Sorted sources that is only found in their church and you have this testimony that's built off of it.

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You have this internal Evidence or you might even look to external evidence as well, but you have this testimony and For a preacher a

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Christian evangelist a loving person to go and say no you're wrong What kind of feeling do they get

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They get a terrible feeling and that scares them and they want to be done with the conversation Yes, they will have a spirit of contention as the

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LDS would call it And so usually when I when I go into these kind of conversations with the LDS, I choose my wording very very

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Specifically and and and one of the very wordings. I try to say at the beginning is guys

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I I love you guys, and I want to talk to you about Jesus Christ and Please do not think that I'm here to be contentious

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I will literally say that almost every single time with them Because it turns off that switch in their mind of oh this guy's trying to be contentious

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That's what the LDS Church teaches and so they they say When you get the spirit of contention to leave to leave that conversation

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These missionaries are taught to leave these kind of conversations Because they can't they they can't be refined to the fire.

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They can't Can't be exposed to the truth because it'll expose their falsehood in that and so There I mean, there's so many different marks that go into False religions,

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I think a big one that we could all talk about is additional scripture And I know you know

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You you were talking about it with denial of orthodoxy haps They every cult usually always teaches to some form or fashion that the

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Christian Church or the Church of Christ Fell away after the death of his apostles or fell away in this year fell away in that way or whatever yeah example it is and and We have this really influential popular person in this year whether it was hundreds of years ago

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Or it's today that picked back up. What was lost. He's picked up the mantle of Christ and is continuing it forward, right and They'll bring with it additional scripture that has never been found anywhere else and so I Mean you have for the the

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Jehovah Witnesses or the Watchtower magazines that they view that as as authoritative Yeah, the

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Mormons with the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price But even with the JW is their

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Bibles corrupt. I know that they change so much I have one of their

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Bibles when I witness to him. I I'll use it to show them. They're wrong But I I haven't though.

34:37

No, that's a perfect That's perfect though, because I have a I have a really good friend His name is Josh and he's hooked me up with a couple different Jehovah Witnesses Bibles One of them is an interlinear one from back before they change certain wording in it so it's really really cool, but it's

34:52

It's it's sad how they attack the Word of God and they will say every cult will say well that's been mistranslated or or Truths have been lost or there was lost

35:03

Bibles that have been now or lost books in the Bible that have now been found and you know what yada yada yada

35:08

You know what? I know we we've talked about this many times and everything but you know when you go back to the 1800s and stuff when all these these

35:18

Colts started they all said the same thing. It was the end of the world Yep, that they they've acquired this this new knowledge even dispensationalism, you know, like Darby said he he he found something that was lost, you know throughout church history or or I you know,

35:38

I'm not picking on them, but I am but You know and every single one and and even nowadays

35:46

Like what? I'll just take the Hebrew roots And they're like they got a guy like I think his name is

35:53

Michael rude And now he's done his own Bible called the chronological

35:59

Gospels All right, where he takes certain scriptures out putting certain words in doing all this and that and but yeah, you're right

36:07

That's scary. I say some charismatics That it was going around to all all these charismatic churches out here that there was these extra books

36:16

Yep that came from South South Africa on How to get in touch with You know, you're

36:26

I don't know some nonsense Gnostic nonsense, you know narcissism. Yep. Yeah, it's just straight -up

36:31

Gnostic, you know But anyways, yeah, you know, you're right. I remember being 14 years old speaking about narcissism, right?

36:38

And I we took a we had a I won't say his name But we had a certain gentleman that was a part of our

36:45

Scout leadership that had a Relative that was high up in the

36:51

LDS Church. And when I say high up he was a one of the quorum of the 70s and so he was able to get us into where like the

36:58

LDS prophet and his 12 apostles where they all meet and Talk about stuff and in this this closed room door setting and so we were able to go sit in the chairs and we're like Oh, we got all sit down in the prophets chair and and thought of it really cool in those ways and and I remember

37:17

Having in the back of my mind Several several questions that I wanted to ask this one gentleman that was part of the quorum of the 70 and I remember asking

37:24

Him stuff and he wasn't able to answer a lot of the stuff for me But that gets wilder because when we were walking back out of the building

37:31

I remember seeing Thomas S Monson walking into the building and Just having and I wasn't able to go up and ask him any of my questions

37:39

But I had such a desire to ask him questions because I'm like, there's no one else that knows I'm keep on getting told.

37:45

Oh, no, it's above my knowledge. It's above my knowledge. It's above my knowledge you have to go to the one above me and And no one had that information and and it's it's almost like that's this teaching of this secret

37:57

Information that's found in quotes that you can't attain it until you get to a certain level or once you even get to that level

38:04

It's not even in that level it's the next one above that or you got to be faithful for so long before you obtain that information or It's just always is carried on a stick in front of the pigs nose that just can't

38:15

I ask you something? Yeah, so how okay. So when do you ever? when you're evangelizing

38:22

Mormons Mm -hmm Do you ever bring up the fact

38:28

That we know that Joseph Smith is a false prophet because he gave false prophecies and how do they respond to that?

38:36

Yeah, I I typically don't bring that up And the reason I don't and I it's not me saying that you shouldn't or other people

38:46

Haven't and had good fruit from it. I I don't usually go to the character of who Joseph Smith is because It immediately shuts the door from my experience.

38:56

It seems like they shut the door And so I I usually stick on the topic of who Jesus Christ is what the gospel is

39:03

And and once once those seeds have been planted then I go into saying, okay, so so What you've told me is a false gospel

39:12

What you've told me is a false Christ and you can agree with it with the fact that you and I are believing in two Different things here and they'll say yep.

39:18

We are definitely believing in two different things and I'll be like, okay Well, you can't have faith in one and the other at the same time and so one or the other

39:25

So, who are you gonna trust Joseph or Jesus? Who are you going to trust your church or the gospel for your salvation?

39:32

And and then I'll say look and Joseph and then I'll start I'll then start dabbling in the character of who

39:37

Joseph Smith is a little bit but it's always Really Jesus folks focused really gospel death burial and resurrection focused.

39:45

Yeah They all have false prophets that have given false prophecies over and over and over again

39:53

They have to they have to because it comes down to the root of it and I'll talk about the root just what

40:01

I believe The root is in just a second. But but it was So whenever I witnessed to him,

40:08

I probably said this before And I found that dr. James White does the same thing who is

40:15

God who is Jesus What is the gospel? Yep. Yeah, like I'll ask those three questions and I patiently sit there and listen to it.

40:23

Absolutely All right. I listen to every word they got to say whether You know, no matter what cult it is.

40:29

I'm dealing with I'll listen to everything and in turn I want to answer those questions as well Yeah, yeah, so give me the same respect and so I personally believe the root of cultish

40:41

Someone being in the call and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the root of you know, like You know a tree has a root and that tree grows and then it starts to branch out so I believe that everything that you got written down everything that you have written down all are the branches of the

40:57

And it would be the simple fact of denying Jesus's deity

41:04

And and not so much of his passive obedience him dying for sins

41:10

But the fact of him of his active obedience him live in the life.

41:15

We could not live We are in that whenever The Bible talks about us being righteous

41:23

It's imputed righteousness We're justified by grace through faith and we are raised and we receive an imputed righteousness

41:32

And that righteousness that we receive is the righteousness of Christ and so All cults have to deny this in order to get people to if anything has a works -based salvation

41:45

It's because they deny the imputed righteousness of Christ Absolutely, and that is the active obedience of Jesus him live in the life.

41:53

We could not live in our place Yeah, so from those two things I believe that's the the trunk of the tree and that everything else where that's

42:03

Wearing weird clothes paying 10 % or you can't go into the temple. Whatever it is. It all branches from that Those are the branches those those

42:10

I hope I hope those are the marks So if you're in a cult listening to this today and you're saying wow

42:16

Okay, everything that these guys have just said are things I see in my own church Who claims to be the one and only true church and all others are false?

42:26

This is what Jeff just talked about with that is Engraved in each one of our natures and we can see that in our only our very first father

42:36

Adam and Eve What is the very first thing after they partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

42:43

What do they do they cover themselves? Yeah, they look to their own works as a means of hiding their sin their nakedness before God and so what do you see in every single cult is a denial of what

42:58

Christ has done and looking to their own works of their hands to cover themselves looking to their own idols as a means of the covering and It's only until Christ which is perfect pre -incarnate

43:10

Christ God in flesh In the garden being pre -incarnate Christ coming and removing those filthy rags

43:17

Removing that covering that Adam and Eve were using and then covering them in the the sacrifice

43:23

We see right there how one is saved is that it's the removal of our sin and the placing on of the act of Righteousness of Christ being imputed with that righteousness.

43:34

I Think that that is absolutely the core. I Think it might I think the core of it is is definitely a workspace

43:44

Salvation denying of who Christ is and a denial of who God is as well on top of that I think that those things are all at the base of the tree yeah, show me someone who doesn't believe that Jesus is

43:54

God and I'll show you someone who denies the The act of obedience of Christ and the imputed righteousness of Christ, right?

44:02

Yeah, that's that's the the main thing that you know, when we have men come through to this home and they've come out of different maybe types of you know systems and Different types of theologies or whatever that that's that's not a problem.

44:18

So but when they they come out of Colts or Completely pagan religions like Buddhist or Hindu or whatever.

44:28

Yep you know I or Even like the Extreme Hebrew roots like 12 tribes and stuff like that or charismatic.

44:37

I always ask him I always always always ask him. What's the gospel? Yep. Just just do you know what the gospel do you know who

44:44

Jesus Christ is? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Who is he? You know and keep it really really simple

44:51

And so I know how to minister to him. I know if they if they need well They're gonna get the gospel for me anyways, but you know

44:59

A lot of them will admit that Jesus died for their sins like Jehovah's Oh, yeah Mormons all of them will say we have

45:05

Oh, yeah, Jesus, but it's it's it's the it's the it's the act of obedience that they have to deny

45:12

You know the hypostatic Union. Well, of course, but they'll try to you know, like they'll try to teeter around that Again you show me someone who holds that has a workspace gospel

45:26

I'll show you someone that denies the hypostatic Union show me someone that denies the hypostatic Yeah, I'll show you someone that has a workspace gospel.

45:32

Well, I'm gonna tell you the two are holding hands Yeah, and part of that that denial of the act of obedience of Christ is is

45:40

Because when we say the act of obedience right and I look just like clouds right now look guys You should know this already

45:49

It's as I'm being raptured right now. Where are you guys? But The denial of the act of obedience of Christ is saying that the life that Christ live is the one that I too can live

46:08

Which is saying that it is by the works of my hand I can be justified by the works of the law, which what does that mean that Christ died needlessly?

46:17

So in the act of somebody denying the act of obedience of Christ they have also denied the passive obedience of Christ to even though they want to use the same words of Dying on a cross being buried rising again on the third day

46:32

Mormons will say this too But guess what they they hate the idea of the cross. You will never see a cross in any of their buildings

46:40

You will never see a cross You'll see far more pictures of Joseph Smith than any depiction of Calvary and you'll see far far more

46:48

Depictions of the Garden of Gethsemane once again, they'll go to obscure verses and they'll say that's where the atonement happened was in the garden

46:54

It was finished on the cross, but it was majority of it was done in the garden And so Colts will deny the act of obedience

47:01

But they also by doing so they have denied the passive obedience of Christ to it to some degree or another

47:08

On my on my Facebook page, there's been a couple times the seventh -day

47:14

Adventist has been mentioned hmm, so I'm going to give y 'all a

47:22

Shotgun Will give you a bullet to shoot is which which I you know, I'll be glad to answer him as well

47:28

But is seventh -day Adventist a cult? Yes. Yeah Yeah, I think

47:35

I think that that cult is one that somebody could be a part of at a very low level and not understand

47:41

What's going on around them? and Still know enough to have salvation but at its core is the doctrine of the seventh -day

47:49

Adventist Church cultish Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean first of all, they listen to L and J White is a profit a prophetess of theirs

48:01

L and J white for the most part and I think it's kind of done now But for the most part a lot of them will hold her writings as scripture.

48:09

Yep So we was talking earlier that they have other Books that they consider to be scripture.

48:15

Yeah, well, they hold the writings now I know all the old ones that I think there's some you know

48:20

Some low -hanging fruit these days that probably wouldn't necessarily say that Their church probably definitely teaches it and also was talking about the act of obedience of Christ They really hoe to the fact that you have to keep the

48:33

Sabbath The and by keeping the Sabbath we would have a different under I would have a different understanding than they

48:40

But they would say that you have to worship on Saturday and if you don't worship on the

48:47

Saturday, then you are then the Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. Oh Yeah, that's very cultic language, yeah

48:57

Sunday worship is the mark of the beast I Did not know they said that about Sunday worship.

49:02

Yeah, absolutely. Hmm Yeah, they also Hold to it. Was it that the three angels?

49:10

Jesus and the Archangel Michael Yeah, you know Jesus is the Archangel Michael.

49:15

Well, I do believe Charles Taze Russell came out of the seventh -day Adventist Adventism whenever he started

49:24

Jehovah's Witnesses Yeah, so to the people that are listening yes, we do consider them a cult whenever I'm open or preaching

49:35

I actually Like I'll I'll use John 14 6 where Jesus is that he is the way the truth and the life and that no one can

49:44

Come to the father except through him and I'll point out that he says that he is the way

49:49

What way well it tells you to the father he is the only way to the father speaking of his

49:55

Exclusivity now at the time it would be speaking of Oh covenant Mosaic law these people thought that they could get to the father through the

50:05

Mosaic Oh covenant law. Jesus says no. I am the only way to the father now to us today

50:12

We're saying the exclusivity That what Jesus says still carries out that that Muhammad cannot get you to the father

50:20

Buddha cannot get you to the father Joseph Smith cannot get you to the father Charles Taze Russell Can I get you to the father and I'll also add an

50:29

Ellen J white and I got you to the father Amen through Jesus Christ.

50:34

Do we get to the father? Amen? Yeah, how's that pie brother it's delicious how's the whiskey

50:48

It's gone Yeah, that's a sad day right there yeah, you know, so how

50:58

I guess I'll ask you guys this now how as as Christians but with with the rule that you're in right now as pastors how how

51:09

Do you guys assist or go out and try to talk about we'll talk with these people about Colts?

51:16

Well, how do you guys engage this stuff? How do we engage the Colts or to a congregation with Colts both?

51:22

How about that first? Let's maybe first talk about the church How do you engage that your local bodies with engaging Colts and then how do you individually engage

51:29

Colts yourself? Well first I believe that as You know one of the men that God has appointed to lead the church that it's my job to lead men

51:40

And to make sure that men are being taught You know John Calvin said it best that the shepherd the pastor should have two voices one to Comfort the sheep now.

51:51

I could be saying this wrong, but but you get the just just I always get that word messed up Just just whatever

51:58

You want to comfort comfort the sheep and another one to drive away wolves and then I you know

52:04

I've always I'm always trying to get the guys on the same page and I've told them I said look we have to be on The same page because through that door

52:12

Wolves are going to show up and listen to me a week later after making that announcement

52:17

We had a wolf show up and they got to see me in action right after the service

52:24

Drive away a wolf Now I told him he was welcome to stay and come anytime and listen to the gospel

52:30

But if he comes peddling his false gospel That he would have to leave whether he left on his own or if I was to drag him out

52:40

Now again, I'm from the streets, I just can't help the way I speak, okay I'm not gonna allow that stuff in in my in the trip in the church the church that God has given me

52:50

It's not happening. I know and then by coming up in there false peddling a false gospel at all

52:56

Now I was very gracious with him and I looked him in the eyes and told him that you know You will not speak any of that in here

53:03

You're welcome to come listen to the gospel learn Listen to the teachings of the Bible, but you start telling my sheep what you believe you will be removed

53:13

We're gonna have problems. Yeah. Oh, yeah And trust me Like I'm just I'm just not the one like other pastors might put it with it, but brother.

53:22

I am NOT the one Yeah, and then on the streets, of course, you know,

53:27

I mentioned it earlier if I see Jehovah's Witnesses if I see Mormons I I Approach them.

53:33

I walk up to them I have a conversation and also go out regularly street preaching and witnessing knocking on doors talking to my neighbors inviting them to church

53:43

Like, you know, I'm very active in my that's really good. That's really really good. You know, um,

53:48

I know what with me You know, I used to do a lot of evangelism. I really just a really more focused on The men at my home and the men that I get here because they come from so many different types of cults, but I always

54:05

Try to remember in the back of my head that I pray that God grant them repentance, you know because they've been captured by the devil to do his will and There a lot of these people they they have a different gospel a different Jesus and a different spirit

54:21

And so I like to do it with gentleness and kindness and really just sit down and go through and And just break everything down and then ask them

54:34

You followed this other this this false gospel. Well, we know that's for a fact this other

54:40

Jesus And this other spirit and how's that been working out for you? Yeah You know,

54:47

I mean, let's seriously, you know because Most of these people do not have peace with God and they they're they don't have an identity in Christ It's because they don't know

54:59

Christ and so they're gonna keep seeking after and then they're gonna find like a my brother

55:05

Seth said when he was being taught by a Horton over in what? Westminster and he was on Colts and he goes well

55:15

Why do people stay in these Colts? He goes well people like their trash They like to stay in their trash, yep, you know, they're comfortable there and And so when we bring them the gospel either if it's out there on the streets or if they come here to the home or whatever

55:34

What we always want to do is we the it's it's not my intellect. It's not my knowledge of Colts It's not my knowledge of Scripture It's the gospel of Jesus Christ and then in and if I present them the gospel of Jesus Christ The Holy Jesus Christ reveals himself to whomever he wants and the

55:55

Holy Spirit blows wherever he wants And so either they're gonna the the electric and respond or they're they're not or it's not their appointed time

56:04

You know, but I could just keep preaching. I you know, I've had a guy here at my house that that he was

56:12

Hardcore What was it called hardcore Mormon? Oh my gosh, dude, and he had this big

56:19

Bible. He had the Yeah, the big big one and And so I said the same thing you're not gonna be talking any of that nonsense here and stuff

56:31

But I kept hitting him with the gospel hitting him with the gospel of sermon every single day, dude

56:38

And it was just like no no, no and I was almost just like it's true like oh my god

56:43

Am I doing something wrong? And it was just one day man. I don't know what I was reading, you know but the gospel messages in every every

56:54

Sermon there every day, you know, man. Yeah, but he just hit his knees and and I was wrapped

57:01

I mean, yeah, I'm just straight up dude, you know, so it was it was that was his appointed time, you know

57:07

And so the The gospel knocks down every doors. I don't have to be a mass intellect to go do it, you know

57:15

But Christ is the one that kicks doors down Yep Amen you know,

57:21

I I While you were talking about that, you know, I I was thinking about my neighbors like I'm sitting outside right now to be able to smoke a pipe and drink that lovely chocolate milk and You know,

57:34

I talked to missionaries quite regularly and so there were some that I ran into not too terribly long ago and they told me they'd come back to my house and they never did and That being said though They went to one of my neighbor's house and they walked by all the other houses to go to this one neighbor's house

57:49

And I thought that that was kind of weird and I'm already a weird enough guy so I didn't go over there and just interrupt their conversation, but I'm weird enough that I went right over after the missionaries left and I stopped by gave them a book or not a

58:02

Book of Mormon. I gave them a Bible Talked to them about what the Book of Mormon was gave them gospel tracts and was like guys

58:10

I like I don't know what they told you But they have a false Jesus and let me show you here why they have a false prophet let me show you why and this is what the gospel is because we all are sinners in need of the

58:22

Savior and After they were after I got done giving them my little five -minute spill. They were like, don't worry

58:28

Joseph Smith is crazy. He's a false prophet. I was like, sweet I was like, well, you could have told me that right when

58:36

I came over here, but hey you know if your church

58:41

I think there's there's three things that I see in in false leaders of a church in a false prophet wolves among sheep or wolves amongst goats demon three things that I I can see in different cults and and and ones that are started by men particularly

58:58

What are the three things that all men and? fleshly men want power we worshiped money and sex

59:06

Power money and sex those are I was always so that the prep the preacher needs to stay away from the money and the honeys

59:13

That's right and so if you're if you're if your church has an influential leader that you can see those three things in it's wrong a

59:22

Shepherd of a church if you think about this correctly and you think of a shepherd on a field He should be just as dirty and muddy as the sheep are

59:30

Yeah, he should not have power. He should not have money and he should not have sex like that And so have humility

59:38

Amen. Amen Absolutely. And so that that you know If you want to have marks of a of a leader in a true church and one that is biblically based

59:47

You're gonna see humility. You're going to see faithfulness. You're going to see the Bible coming from his mouth

59:55

The nonsense that you see in these other quotes, you know, and I would also add, you know from that humility, you'll see a humble man bold Not in his own strength, but in the strength given to him by Jesus Christ Because he has been filled with the

01:00:14

Holy Spirit Whether it's him Stan You know with his face in the

01:00:20

Bible, you know, because it like it's hard prepare messages is hard, right? Like it's easy.

01:00:26

It's not you know, if If you just think you can do it like stop it like it's it's it's it's not easy and then you know standing up there before your peers and Proclaiming this word and and as you're doing so there's so much stuff going on, you know

01:00:44

You know you have your you know, you're dealing with the text you're dealing with your notes

01:00:50

You're dealing with the guy yawn and you're dealing with the voice in your head saying that you know, you're not good enough

01:00:56

You know and then you're dealing with the last time you preach and he went back and list to the message You said this totally absolutely wrong.

01:01:02

Like yeah, I keep talking like you're from the trailer park. Well, I am You got all this stuff going through your head at the same time you're delivering this message

01:01:12

And then you know and you do have to you know, call people out, you know You do have to call people in their junk.

01:01:18

You do have to confess your junk You know like like you have to be real and you do have to stand up to wolves

01:01:25

You do have to call it ace and ace and by that I mean a false prophet a false prophet you know, so you know, it's not for weak men, but it is for humbled men who

01:01:39

Who find their weakness who are weak but find their strength in Christ? Right We're not militant.

01:01:48

That's right. We love our Sheep, you know like like I love my wife.

01:01:54

I love my kids I'm not walking around here pushing people and punching them in the face because I have a wife and kids

01:01:59

But listen to me you come and you try to hurt my family It's going down, bro

01:02:05

That's a wrap It's a wrap

01:02:11

How much more the bride of Christ exactly dude, right? We we as shepherds, you know, we're supposed to be all these things, you know

01:02:21

This leader this and all these things at the same time like do not come up in here

01:02:28

Thinking you're gonna hurt one of my sheep. Yeah, man, it ain't happening So we have to be bold but at the same time this humility that we have is the

01:02:37

God has humbled us in the strength that whenever the strength that we possess is given to us by Christ To protect the sheep exactly.

01:02:48

So your pastors Should be someone that stands up for you. Yeah, you know slinging a rock

01:02:55

Oh, yeah If you have Mormons if you got Mormons come into your house and and you're not prepared to speak to them and you call your pastor and He doesn't come and help you

01:03:06

Yeah Listen any one of my much any of my the people at my church are listening and they know they know

01:03:14

If they call me, I'll drop whatever it is and I'll be there Yep, and that Mormon or that Jehovah's Witness keep the

01:03:22

Mormon talk. Just keep them talking No No, they can call me and I'm on my way.

01:03:28

It doesn't matter Yeah, I've gotten knocks at my door many a time when I and I got mentally ill guys here.

01:03:34

They go pastor There's Mormons here. I look outside and there's a couple of my guys just Getting them just getting them, you know getting them and I just walk up and I'm like, oh, they're doing fine

01:03:44

I just walk back in You know why you guys are talking

01:03:50

I got a new revelation Oh about how if you're reformed you can't be reformed if if you don't have tulips in your in your yard

01:03:59

So I have that's in my yard. Okay, you're reformed that that's that's that's called the desert man

01:04:05

I can't have tulips in my yard. Well, I got adobe clay Brother come to Tallahumma after darkness light you can go buy soil somewhere.

01:04:16

Let's see the plants. Come on Do you die

01:04:24

I have a have two dogwood trees in my yard kind of probably about 40 feet apart and then right underneath and we have a little flower beds and tulips pop up at Yeah, I actually didn't plan them.

01:04:36

They just come up every year. It's just they just come up naturally, right? Yeah, I mean when the Calvinist land

01:04:43

No, I you know at my house. I got I got a I got a giant big tree orange tree lemon tree

01:04:52

Grapefruit and I got two grape orchards. I bet you got some gravel, don't you?

01:05:02

My wife she likes to make homemade wine every year. Oh Really? Oh my gosh, man.

01:05:08

That's cool. Oh my gosh. She knows how to do it, too I try to do it once and I just I wrecked it.

01:05:14

Oh, I'm jealous. That's what we're working on making So much

01:05:20

I know this is off the topic, but you're not making stuff So just be on the lookout for post tender

01:05:25

Bruce looks beard care. So we're gonna be coming out. Oh beer Snap five different products for beard care

01:05:32

Hey, you gotta get a wax for his bro. I'm gonna take care of rate. We're making way

01:05:37

I say we're making I have a recipe for wax already. Yeah I'll check it out.

01:05:43

Oh brother So So when it comes to the bombs, we're gonna make bomb butter and go and in wax

01:05:50

We're gonna have five different scents to start out with. So, you know, I remember I you know what?

01:05:55

I never used oil or a beer bomb at all And I remember I was I was telling Jeff this is like a year ago or whatever.

01:06:02

I'm like, yeah, man, dude I'm like a chia pet dude, you know the friction everything and he's like well,

01:06:09

I Said I bought the I bought the was it the oil and he goes what about the bomb and I was like this

01:06:18

The bomb I just been putting for beard oil in Like olive oil in Arizona, oh

01:06:24

I did that a couple times to Do them both. I got it from wrath and grace the

01:06:30

The oil and the and I love touching my beard now Get ours done.

01:06:36

I'll send y 'all some Oh Man yeah, I call my mustache wax that the heresy because it's the only hair you should see and And so yeah, no,

01:06:47

I make my own stuff. So I'll send you my recipe and try it out School all right, so any

01:07:00

Closing thoughts that y 'all might have. I'm pretty sure everybody's tired of listening to us. Oh Look to Christ and all that he's done both is his perfect life and his dying upon a cross and Raising from the tomb for salvation anybody that tells you otherwise

01:07:20

You're in a cult Yeah Yeah, if you don't anyone preaches a gospel outside of the the fact that God sent his son to Live the life that you could not live and To die the death to take upon himself the punishment that you deserve and that by his death

01:07:42

We are forgiven and that by the life that he lived. We are reckoned with righteousness

01:07:49

That is a false gospel and That not only did this Jesus live the life that we could not live took upon himself the punishment that we deserve in his death

01:07:59

But he was buried and on the third day God raised him from the dead And if you believe that you shall be saved amen, and he rose from the dead

01:08:09

He showed himself publicly for 40 days and he went to the be with the father He's at the right hand of the father in the throne of David Ruling and reigning putting all enemies under his feet.

01:08:18

Amen. We serve the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords Amen, and that's the gospel that saves and that's the gospel that sanctifies and that's the gospel that glorifies and you know what?

01:08:29

And he had a resurrection so powerful that other people rose with him Bam sucka

01:08:36

Well, I know that whenever I was born again, I was sitting with him in the heavenlies

01:08:50

And some kind of already not yet Chocolate milk now

01:09:04

Any closing thoughts from you have No man,

01:09:10

I just want to say that I really enjoy y 'all brothers man, like Like I really look forward to this.

01:09:16

I know last week. I wasn't able to I had to go on a date with my wife Yeah, so it was kind of it was my birthday

01:09:26

Mother's Day and our anniversary all -in -one and the only time we get a babysitter was Thursday night

01:09:31

So it was a great time. We had a wonderful time hanging out with one another But I do man

01:09:36

I really enjoy this podcast and doesn't matter if it ever gets any attention like I'm not doing it for any attention

01:09:43

You know, you know, whatever. I mean, it'd be nice for the message we have to be heard but you know if it's just us and the

01:09:51

Three four people that's listening. How do we holla back right? We're glorifying God, man Yeah, but I just really appreciate y 'all brothers man.

01:09:58

Y 'all be joining me and I love y 'all man Love everyone that's watching

01:10:05

Checking us out and y 'all's kind words the questions and whatever have you but I guess we'll close out and Hallelujah holla back.

01:10:20

Let me see. We're having that awkward pause silence. Why? Sometimes With this mouse, okay.