February 13, 2024 Show with Dr. Paul Nelson AND Dr. Edward Dalcour on “An Introduction to Christian Apologetics: Necessity & Purpose”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 13th day of February, 2024, and I have back two returning guests.

It's just been a week since they were both on together on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one week from today, one week ago from today, and I am thrilled to have back on the program

Dr. Paul Nelson and Dr. Edward DelCour of First Love Ministries.

Dr. Paul Nelson is an author whose book Presuppositionalism, A Biblical Approach to Apologetics, is going to be a part of our topic today, and he is also president of Grace Bible University in Dublin, California, and Dr.

Eddie DelCour is an author and also president and director of the

Department of Christian Defense, and today we're going to be also addressing Dr.

DelCour's latest book, An Introduction to Christian Apologetics, Necessity and Purpose, and we're also going to be announcing the upcoming 2024

First Love Bible Conference in Baghdad, Florida, on the theme

The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit. But first of all, let me welcome back to the program Dr.

Paul Nelson. Yes, hi Chris, good to be back on your show. It's great to have you back, and Dr.

Eddie DelCour, it's great to have you back as well. Delighted to be here, Chris. And first of all, why don't you start off,

Dr. Nelson, for those of our listeners who missed last week's program with the two of you, why don't you tell our listeners about First Love Ministries.

Yeah, First Love Ministries, it goes back about 30 years with Pastor Joe Jakowitz as the founder and director.

It has four branches. One branch is the publications where we publish books and free for distribution, and we're a faith ministry, which means essentially we don't charge any money for everything.

Everything is free. Also, there is a radio ministry, which we're on right now, and that's 24 -7.

And then there's Grace Bible University, which is kind of the newest branch, and we're still under development with that, and Dr.

DelCour is the vice president. So it's based on missionary work.

Tom Smith is the missionary director, and we have missionary trips where we train and equip pastors from third world countries.

We go into Nigeria, Philippines, Nepal, and India this year.

So that's basically, in a nutshell, what First Love Ministries is.

And if anybody wants more information about First Love Ministries, go to FirstLoveMinistries .org,

FirstLoveMinistries .org, and right at the top, you will see all the major branches of that ministry.

You have publications, missions, radio, and Grace Bible University. So you could click on any or all of those tabs to find out more about the specific element of First Love Ministries you want to explore.

And by the way, in case you didn't know, listeners, it is

First Love Radio that livestreams Iron Trip and Zion Radio every day,

Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern, 1 to 3 p .m. Pacific. Before I forget,

I just want to give a shout out publicly to Free Presbyterian Radio 92 .5

in Liberia, West Africa. I just learned last week that they have added a

Best of Iron Trip and Zion Radio to their Monday lineup at midnight.

So I want to thank those fine folks. I didn't even know that they had done that, but I was thrilled to hear that they have done that.

It just broadens our audience even more. And you never know where Iron Trip and Zion Radio is being heard.

Eddie Delcor, why don't you tell our listeners about the upcoming First Love Ministries second annual

Bible conference on the person and work of the Holy Spirit, which is going to be held coming up very quickly,

February 23rd through the 25th in Baghdad, Florida. Yeah, we're doing an interesting,

Chris, we're doing this conference on the Holy Spirit.

And I think it's interesting that it's right outside of Pensacola. Because as you recall, what happened, that whole weird, bizarre thing, the

Pensacola so -called revival. So, you know, we're praying, I'm praying that a lot of charismatic will come and they'll get a proper view in the

Holy Spirit. It's a conference. I think it's a very important conference because it really is based on the very doctrine that is the marrow of the

Christian faith, the doctrine of the Trinity, the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit in person, in nature, in function.

We're going to talk about the Spirit's role in sanctification. We're going to talk about the sealing.

I think that's that's Paul Nelson's talk. Dr. Paul Nelson's topic on the sealing and the baptism of the

Holy Spirit. And then Joe, Pastor Joe Jockowitz is going to talk about sanctification and mortification and the

Spirit's role then. I think that too many Christians are are not studied enough, just basic stuff on the

Holy Spirit. That's why you have so many people, far too many

Christians who misapply the functions of the Holy Spirit, who misapply the nature of the Holy Spirit.

Not that they reject the Trinity, but they've never been adequately taught. So this conference is going to go through a lot of issues, a lot of different features.

And we have some dynamite, fantastic speakers that will be there. I think we have like seven, seven, don't we,

Paul? Like seven speakers that will will be there. And two of them are coming from Nigeria.

They're pastors there of a church in which First Love has a very important movement there.

We go once a year. Also, we have the school there. There's several, there's graduates from the

Grace, which we'll talk about shortly, Grace Bible University. So it's really exciting, these two pastors coming.

And then Samuel Rye, believe it or not, the main pastor who is so zealous of sound doctrine, on sound doctrine.

And we go to a lot of his, we go to the conferences that he actually arranges in Nepal.

And he's, you know, we don't have time right now to talk about his background, but he will be there.

He will be speaking. So you got to come to this conference. It's in Milton or Baghdad, Florida, right outside of Pensacola.

And it's a free event. There's going to be maybe snacks. I don't know. It's going to be a lot of doctrine, though, on the

Holy Spirit. Hopefully there's snacks. You better be clear. I get hungry at these things. You better be very clear on whether or not they have snacks, because people can get very upset if they are promised snacks, and they show up and there are no snacks.

It might be Southwest Airlines snacks. I have arranged many, many, many events since I first became a

Christian in the 1980s. And people get upset about the lack of snacks. Yeah, so do the speakers.

By the way, is an old listener of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I haven't heard from him in a while, but there has been a listener in my audience from Nigeria named

Osinachi. Is he going to be a part of this event? I don't know if you're familiar with that name.

I think Pastor Joe Jackowitz is. I'm not sure. Paul? Yeah, he sounds familiar.

I don't know. I think his full name is Osinachi Nwoko.

But if you're listening. Chris, do we have a link for that conference somewhere?

Firstloveministries .org, and you just scroll down a little bit, and it's right there. It's a free event.

Who's ever listening? Free event, and three days. Free event. We want to come see you.

All you've got to do is register. That would be great. Folks, I hope that you register at firstloveministries .org.

I actually got a text from Joe Jackowitz. There will be food all three days.

I think, Joe, you've got to be more detailed on what you mean by food. People might not think you mean peanuts and trail mix.

We're also going to have food trucks there where you're going to have to purchase your own food, so I don't want to give people the wrong impression.

I like those food trucks, though. Well, one thing that is going to be available, or two things,

I should say, is that everybody that registers is going to get free copies of the book by my guests today.

We have Paul Nelson's book, which is Presuppositionalism, A Biblical Approach to Apologetics, and also

Dr. Edward Dalcor's book. Sorry, my

Bell's palsy is still not 100 percent gone. Sometimes I mess things up when I'm speaking.

Also, Dr. Dalcor's book, An Introduction to Christian Apologetics, Necessity and Purpose.

If you register and you show up, you will get a free copy of each of those two books.

Let me start with Dr. Nelson, your book on presuppositionalism.

If you could define that, especially for the sake of our listeners. We do have listeners that are new

Christians. In addition to those that are seasoned Christians and pastors and theologians and published authors, we have new

Christians, and we even have non -Christians listening. So why don't you define presuppositionalism, if you could.

Yeah, so a presupposition is an assumption one makes. It's not something to be proved, and it's held to as a matter of faith.

It becomes a beginning point of our reasoning and the standard of our knowledge and truth.

The overshadowing presupposition of the Christian is the triune

God and his revelation to man. And as such, God has revealed himself to man, and therefore the scripture comes to us with absolute authority, and inerrant, and is the standard of all truth in reality.

This becomes the focus point of presuppositional apologetics.

We are theists, and that means that we believe in revelation, and revelation is our presupposition.

We believe in order that we understand. And so this is diametrically opposed to the world's philosophy of, say, empiricism and naturalism and so forth.

Their presuppositions are completely different, but they don't realize that their presuppositions is a religion.

Just like I'm always very forthright and say I believe the word of God is the standard of all truth and reality, and then

I ask them, how do you know something is true? And that begins the conversation. So presuppositionalism is a worldview.

It's a worldview that comprises a metaphysical aspect where there is a creator -creature distinction, and all that is real, all that exists is in context with a creator -creature relationship.

And the other element would be epistemology, how we know something, and I've already described that as the word of God is our standard in which we understand all the truth of this universe.

The third part is ethics of a worldview, and that again is the word of God, and God the creator has given us his word, he's given us his law, and that establishes our whole concept of ethics, what is right and wrong.

So these three aspects create a worldview, and so when we're dealing with presuppositional apologetics, there's a conflict between the

Christian's worldview and the world's concept of what is true and what is reality.

They have to push God out of everything, and their reality is that they will put man's reasoning above the word of God.

And once you do that, you're claiming yourself to be a higher authority than the word of God. But as theists, we hold the word of God to be our highest authority and absolute truth.

We all have the same facts, but this is a matter of interpreting facts.

So when we interpret facts, what is our basis for understanding them?

And so we're not deists. I think I was an evidentialist, pretty committed evidentialist, and as a scientist,

I had a lot of debates in the lunchroom and in different places. And it was all about evidences of creation of fossils and so forth.

And the person who probably read the most and studied the most would always win those debates.

And I'm just thinking, you know, something's wrong with this situation because God's word is true and absolute.

It's not a matter of who can argue the best. It's a matter of the truth of the word of God. And then there is a—this is what converted me to presuppositionalism.

I keep up with the scientific journals, and in the journal Nature, there is an editorial.

And a guy was critiquing the Creation Institute, and he says, why are they, as theists, acting like deists?

And that really stuck with me because a deist has nothing to do with revealed truth.

It has nothing to do with Scripture. Everything is by the material world and empiricism and naturalism.

So that's—I kind of went off a little tangent there. But anyway—

Well, maybe it would be good for you to give a clear definition of evidentialism, since that is the one of the opposing views.

And would evidentialism be synonymous with what has been called classic apologetics?

Well, classic apologetics, it's involved, but it's more on the rational proofs of God than classical apologetics.

So with evidential apologetics, it's a naturalistic approach. It's a materialism where they take a neutral position as far as how they interpret, and they capitulate to the world's presuppositions, and they ignore the

Scripture. And this is my whole point about evidentialism. Scott Oliphant tells a story of a conference on apologetics, and the coordinator of the conference says, you don't need to bring your

Bibles because we're going to discuss the evidences. So here they're trying to defend the faith without the

Word of God. Something is really wrong with that position, right? And that's where I came from.

I was using the scientific worldview to argue a theistic position without the

Bible. And that seems odd, because although I am these days leaning a lot more heavily toward presuppositionalism, albeit still retaining admiration for some evidentialists, but it's odd, your criticism of evidentialism, because two of my greatest heroes, who are now in heaven, modern -day heroes, are

R .C. Sproul and his mentor, John Gerstner.

And they actually wrote a book that was critiquing and opposing presuppositionalism.

And it seemed to me that these two wonderful giants of modern -day

Christianity were not being consistent with the rest of their own theology. Is that too harsh of a criticism, do you think?

They're not being true to their theology? They're not being consistent with it by being evidentialists.

And of course, they're in heaven now, so they're presuppositionalists. So I love those men.

I don't want to say anything negative about them. They're great men, far greater than I could ever hope to be.

They are incredible. But I would say this. Presuppositionalism in apologetics is the place you give to Scripture.

It really, to me, defines what true apologetics is. And evidentialism pushes

Scripture out and argues from human rationalism. And it puts man's reasoning above the word of God.

And that's really the issue. We can't put anything above God's word. Because once we do that, we're the judge of God's word.

And who are we to judge God's word? So we presuppose that the word of God is the ultimate reality, the ultimate standard for judging reality and for knowing all things.

So it's really—I just want to underscore—it's the place you give to Scripture. Go ahead.

No, I was just going to say, every presuppositionalist I ever interviewed, however, said they do not dismiss using evidences at any and all times.

In fact, I have heard presuppositionalism teaches that everything is evidence. Yeah, so, yeah, of course, heaven declares the glory of God.

But the problem with that is man's sinful nature. Romans 118 tells us that he continually suppresses the truth.

He wants to hold it down. He's aware of God, and there's a sense of deity within him.

But when you put evidences—let me just—I'll back up a little bit.

Okay, so why, when we hear an evidential message, we glory in it, right?

Why do we glory when we hear about all these wonderful works of God? We glory in it because we already presupposed the

Word of God to be true. And so we understand it. We're defining things the way

God defines them. And as Christians, regenerate Christians, we can see

God. So when someone, you know, a canned ham or something, gives us a message on the glory of creation, yeah, we are so excited about it because when

God converted us, we now believe in the Word of God is absolute truth.

And so we see it unfolding, and it's wonderful. But let me tell you, science does not look at it like that at all.

Science can't see it. They're blinded to it. There's noetic effects of sin, you know, where they're in darkness.

And it takes the regenerative power of the Holy Spirit to open the eyes, that they see these things from a biblical point of view.

And don't you think that those scientists who are anti -Christian, who claim to be atheists or agnostics, and we know from Romans 1 that there are no real atheists, but don't you think that these scientists very often are acting and teaching in a way that a presuppositionalist would, but they are coming from unbiblical presuppositions.

They teach what they claim is scientific truth, basing their arguments on things that they will also claim are true, that are not true and have never been proven.

Like, for instance, they still call it the theory of evolution. There's never been a declaration that,

Hey, ladies and gentlemen, the theory of evolution is now fact.

We've proven it. That's never been announced to anybody, because it hasn't been. You always ask them, what one thing do you know that's absolutely true about evolution?

And if they're honest, they can't answer that. But I think the text of Scripture that really describes science is

Romans 1, verse 25, who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshiped and served the creature more than the creator.

It's probably more appropriate to translate that creation more than the creator who is blessed forever.

That to worship the creation is essentially a pantheistic point of view. And secular science is a religion.

For instance, they ascribe to nature all these attributes, such as their attributes of God, like matter.

If you ask them where did matter come from, it always existed. It's self -existent and it's eternal.

So they give to matter an attribute of God.

They also say that the universe is self -contained and self -sufficient. Those are attributes of God as well.

And they say that nothing transcends the cosmos or the universe. So they completely push

God out and presuppose nature to have these attributes. Natural law is absolute to them.

They couldn't do science if there wasn't uniformity and natural law. And you can go on and on and on that they're ascribing attributes of deity to nature.

And it's a religious philosophy. And I'm assuming from what you just said about natural law, that Thomism is incompatible with presuppositionalism.

Thomas Aquinas' philosophy. Yeah, he was more towards a classical approach to apologetics.

Natural law is such a quagmire to scientists because they give it the attribute of immutability.

It cannot change. That's the whole point of science. It's reproducible. If the same experiment was run exactly the same, you got a different result.

Then you couldn't trust natural law anymore. And you couldn't do science anymore.

Also, this is what's really interesting about natural law. Is that they say, you know, we talk about intelligent design.

And they totally deny that. But then in their doctrine of natural law, they have a self -determining attribute.

And how does this self -determining attribute play in? Nature becomes self -organizing, even though there's no purpose.

It's non -telelogical, but it's self -organizing. And then they give nature these personal attributes of mother nature or that nature is a poet.

And they try to use this figurative language because they're in trouble because they can't explain intelligent design.

And then they say everything comes about through randomness and chance.

And I said, so if everything comes about random and chance, how can you have order in a created universe?

And that's a big contradiction. They can't answer it. And I always push them on this one, on natural law.

Well, we have to go to our first commercial break. We're not ready for the midway one yet. If anybody has a question, please submit it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. Paul Nelson and Dr. Eddie DelCour after these messages from our sponsors.

Armored Republic exists to equip free men with tools of liberty to defend God -given rights against the twin threats of tyranny and chaos.

If you own a rifle to resist tyrants and criminals, then you should own body armor and a med kit for the same reasons.

A rifle stops evil, body armor and a med kit keep you in the fight and preserve your life.

Armored Republic is a body of free craftsmen united to create tools of liberty. We are honored to be your armorsmith of choice.

Civilian ownership of body armor is about increasing decentralized power and, by comparison, reducing the advantages of centralized power.

The danger of centralized power is often represented by the word king. As Americans, we hate the word king applied to any mere man.

We are Armored Republic, and in a republic, there is no king but Christ.

Arm yourself with tools of liberty at armoredrepublic .com. I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a

Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the

Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.

At Lindbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired

Word of God, inherent in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

God's image. If you live near Lindbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the

Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit Lindbrookbaptist .org.

That's L -Y -N -Brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast of the

Lord's blessing and the knowledge of himself. I'm Brian McLaughlin, president of the

SecureComm Group, and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.

The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, close -circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.

We custom install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, off -site viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices.

From simple code -activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the

SecureComm Group has it. We also provide the latest in intercom and IP telephone systems.

In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network, whether it's a

Wi -Fi or hardwire network. We'll implement the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.

I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners and their associates.

For more details on how the SecureComm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit securecommgroup .com.

That's securecommgroup .com. This is Brian McLaughlin of the SecureComm Group, joining

Chris Arnzen's family of advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air.

We here at Iron Sharpens Iron radio praise God for the generous monthly financial support of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the

American Gem Society, Jewelers of America, and the Gemological Institute of America.

For the perfect custom -designed engagement ring or any one -of -a -kind piece of jewelry created exactly according to your imagination and specifications,

Royal Diadem Jewelers has you covered. No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step -by -step through every stage of the process and even hold a high -tech internet virtual visit using state -of -the -art jewelry design technology to serve you.

They start by listening carefully to determine your needs. They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you.

From rough design to digital model to photorealistic image to wax prototype model to the finished product, they're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes, making any changes necessary along the way.

This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed and well beyond your expectations.

Visit royaldiadem .com. That's royaldiadem .com today.

Sterling Vanderwercker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife, Bronnie, his business partner and manager,

Brian Wilson, and the entire family, thank you all for listening to, praying for, and supporting the work of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And don't forget, folks, on top of the monthly financial support that royaldiadem .com

already provides for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, on top of that, they are still offering us this mind -blowing opportunity where we receive 100 % of the profits from any sale of jewelry to an

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener simply by that listener mentioning Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So I don't know how quickly they can get you something for tomorrow, which is Valentine's Day, but if you're a special person in your life, whether it's your fiancé or your spouse, can wait a bit, perhaps you can order something for Valentine's Day that they will receive in the near future from you from royaldiadem .com.

And also keep in mind that tomorrow is my birthday, and still no one has gifted me with the microphone – the solid gold microphone pendant for a necklace the size of my fist that I requested.

But whether you're purchasing jewelry that they already have in stock at royaldiadem .com

or if you're having something custom -designed like an engagement ring, like turning your church logo, your parachurch ministry logo, your business logo, your denomination logo, your seminary logo into a pendant for a necklace or a ring, or whatever else your imagination and creativity can conjure up for a one -of -a -kind customized piece of jewelry, whatever it is, if you purchase it from royaldiadem .com

and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, we get 100 % of the profits. But please, if you have any interest in purchasing jewelry for yourself or someone you love, go to royaldiadem .com

today to get the ball rolling on that purchase, because we have no idea when they're going to pull the plug on that offer where we receive 100 % of the profits from jewelry purchases by,

I should say, our listeners who mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. So go to royaldiadem .com today, mention

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with our conversation with Paul Nelson and Eddie Dalcor, and we are going to be continuing our conversation on apologetics.

And is there anything that you wanted to say to wrap up your presentation on presuppositionalism,

Dr. Nelson? Because we also want to move on to Dr. Dalcor's latest book, which is entitled

An Introduction to Christian Apologetics, Necessity and Purpose. Yeah, just a very brief summary.

It's, you know, we hold to the inspiration of God to be absolute in authority for all reasoning and knowledge, and the virtue of apologetics lies in its loyalty to Scripture.

So if our approach to apologetics is not scriptural, then I think it's not pleasing to the

Lord. Okay, great. And now, Dr. Eddie Dalcor, you have this new book out.

It is, as I've already been mentioning, An Introduction to Christian Apologetics, Necessity and Purpose.

Can you tell us, with all the books that are already on the shelves of serious students of the

Bible on apologetics, why did you feel a need to bring into the hands of Christians everywhere this new book?

Yeah. First, it will be available at the conference, by the way, if anyone's thinking of coming.

And again, you can get the information of the conference, FirstLoveMinistries .org,

FirstLoveMinistries .org. Or if you're familiar with my website,

ChristianDefense .org, you can always write me and ask me where is this conference and what is the link. FirstMinistries .org.

FirstLoveMinistries. FirstLoveMinistries .org has all the information on the conference, hotels, transportation, everything you can think of.

Chris, you know, some of my books in the past were somewhat academic, like the

Oneness book that I, such as the Oneness book that I wrote, A Definitive Look at Oneness Theology, Defending the

Triunity of God, I think was the title. But, and it was,

I think it was like 250 pages. And then I, some of the books I co -authored, like the, one of the last books, which is this very thick book called

Our God is Triune, different authors, including Anthony Rogers and a whole list of other authors.

It was very academic. And as you said, you know, there's a lot of students of the word who want that.

They want the languages, they want the interaction exegetically and all these things, which is really good.

But I need a book, I wanted a book that really appealed to the average

Christian without sacrificing the exegesis of very, very, very important passages.

And I wanted also to dismantle the false notion that so many people have that apologetics is just refuting and that's it.

That's it. It's just refuting, winning that argument, going home and feeling good about yourself because you just refuted some kind of false view.

Actually, that's not the definition of apologetics. That's not what I wanted to communicate as well.

I wanted to overthrow, which I think is an erroneous definition of apologetics, biblically speaking.

Apologetics simply, and keep in mind, biblically speaking, the Christian, all

Christians do have a mandate to be theologians, meaning studying, right?

Studying God, who God is, 1 Peter 3 .15. Always have an answer for the hope that lies within us.

Always have, yeah, contend for the faith. And also 2 Peter 3 .18, grow in the grace and knowledge, right?

Knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Growing is a commandment. It's something that increases. And we're always, we have a mandate to contend for the faith.

And Jude 1 .3, to argue for the faith that was once for all delivered to the believers.

And we have a mandate also to evangelize, in which God said in Romans 10 .15,

the Lord said, our feet are beautiful, those who are gospelizing.

Our feet are beautiful when you gospelize. The participle there in 10 .15 of Romans is gospelizing.

So I really wanted to communicate the simplicity of apologetics and fundamental doctrine because it's as – it's more important actually to present a positive affirmation of the gospel because you're always going to meet smarter people.

And this is what I had in mind when I wrote this book. I want the average person to understand essential theology and the role of apologetics.

But you first have to understand the essentials of the Christian faith. Because without that, even if you win an argument, say, on the deity of Christ, but you're super weak on the trinity or you don't know what sanctification is, what do you say to them afterwards?

Do you direct them to a church? And Chris, I know a lot of apologists out there, and there's too many who are lone rangers.

That means they're normally single. They have no church home. We probably know the same people,

Chris, that are under this category. And they're horrible. They have a horrible personal life, right?

They're horrible in their personal life and pretty much their whole world revolves around refuting and that's it, winning arguments.

And a lot of them are vile in their language and their speech. And a lot of them just have bad theology and other things.

They really do. So that's not apologetics. That's not the biblical view of how a

Christian should behave. So I wanted a book that does really target the average

Christian and the student because I don't sacrifice in this book exegesis. A lot of the advanced material, not all of it, but a lot of it is in the footnotes.

And everything is transliterated. It's not a bunch of Greek everywhere. And where it's necessary,

I will amplify the text when it's necessary to go into original language because it's important.

But the term apologetics is – and we get that from not only 1

Peter 3, 15, but Paul says, tells the Philippian church, hey, I'm here.

He didn't say hey, but I'm here because the apologetics, the defense and the confirmation of the gospel.

He says I'm here because of apologetics, right? So we know it's something – it's a biblical activity to be sure to defend the faith.

And it comes from the noun apologia, which in all cases and forms, which just means to defend or to answer.

But here's what's interesting, Chris. The very hallmark verse that everyone goes to, especially the

Lone Ranger apologists, is 1 Peter 3, 15. Very important passage because we know

Peter was speaking to all the churches, not just a church or a particular church, but all the churches.

It's a universal letter. Peter says – and here's what I find very interesting.

Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to give a defense.

That's the word apologetics. To everyone who has to give a logos, a reason or account and for the hope that's in you with generous and respect.

Here's what's interesting, Chris. There's only one actual imperative verb.

There's only one commandment. You know what that is? Sanctify. Haggiasata.

Sanctify Christ as Lord in your heart. So if you can't do that, if you're unable to set apart

Christ as Lord of your life in your heart, you're not really credible.

You're not really qualified to give any kind of apologetics. Go back first and evaluate your

Christian faith because that's the commandment in that verse. Because the defense and to give a reason, those are things that follow.

But the commandment, the only commandment in that verse is to set Christ apart in your heart, right, as Lord in your heart.

And we know that Peter was appealing to or he was quoting Isaiah 8, which is very interesting.

8, 12 and 13 and 1 Peter 3, 14 and 15, where the same language is used in the

Septuagint. But it says to set apart the same imperative, Haggiasata, Yahweh apart in your heart.

It's beautiful because what Peter does, he identifies Jesus Christ as the

Yahweh of Isaiah chapter 8, verse 13. Set apart

Yahweh in your heart. Sanctify, set apart Christ as Lord, as Yahweh in your heart.

There's a lot there. What follows is to give an answer or defense.

And Peter doesn't stop there. And this is part of the premise of this book, to give an account, to give a – the term is logos, to give a reason for your apologetic, to give a positive affirmation to your faith.

That's what we're supposed to do, not just refute, but we're supposed to give a reason for our faith.

Because I found especially – a lot of Christians get overly zealous when they start reading about Jehovah Witnesses and like these non -Christian kind of cults there.

I call them atheistic religions. But they get so zealous. All they want to do is show the false prophecies.

They want to refute the Jehovah Witness at John 1 and all these things. So you do that and say you find a

Jehovah Witness to say, yeah, that says, yeah, these false prophecies are pretty damaging to my religion, so I'm going to leave.

Well, just because you refuted him doesn't mean he's all of a sudden going to embrace Christ. He probably never even heard the gospel because all you did was show him all the false prophecies.

Same with Islam. You can show categorically, factually that Muhammad was a pedophile.

He really was. And he practiced vile things. Well, that's not really the gospel even though it's true.

In other words, the rule should be this, and I always say this. In your evangelism, whether it's personal or open air, get to the cross as fast as possible because that, as I point out in this book, is the very means.

The crosswork, the gospel is the very means that God chose to save his people, is it not?

It is the very means. And also I spend not a – again, it's a shorter book, so it's not overwhelming, but I spend some time showing that Christians should have a set foundation in accurately defending and affirming the truth.

And it requires to do this a familiarity with the truth.

Because if you're not familiar with the basic truths of the gospel, how are – how is a

Christian going to present the truth? If they're not familiar with the truth, how are they going to present the truth of the gospel?

How are they going to accurately defend anything if they're not familiar? It's interesting. First and second, Timothy, Chris, and Titus.

These are books written to leaders. And I always hold the leaders responsible because they're – Christians are responsible because they got

Bibles in their hands. But the leaders, the pastors are responsible to teach. And Chris, there's not – the fact of the matter is there's not enough teaching pastors.

There really isn't. There are out there. There are some good teaching pastors. Actually, Paul, Dr.

Nelson's former pastor who retired, Dr. Downing, is just – talk about exemplifying.

Oh, yeah. The teaching. And there's a lot of good teaching pastors. But not enough,

Chris. There's not enough teaching pastors, right? And in First and Second Timothy and Titus, the

Holy Spirit through Paul was very concerned about this. That's why Paul says in 2

Peter 2 .15, be diligent to present yourself approved by God.

Then he tells you how. As a workman who does not need to be ashamed. Pastors, don't be ashamed of the trinity.

Don't be ashamed of the doctrines of grace. Don't be ashamed that this carpenter in the

New Testament was God in the flesh, that he was physically resurrected. Unless you believe that he was

God in the flesh, second person of the Holy Trinity, don't be ashamed to call him what he is.

He's the second person of the trinity. He's the two -natured person. Don't be ashamed of all that. Don't be ashamed of doctrine.

As a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling – it's one word there, ortho, tomeo, cutting straight, presenting a precise exposition of whatever you're teaching.

Handling the word of truth. Accurately handling the word of truth. That's what pastors are supposed to do.

In fact – And you said the Greek for that was other tomato? Ortho, tomeo.

I was joking. Oh, other tomatoes. You know, Chris, I'm thinking, did

I mispronounce it? You know, a funny –

Actually, Eddie, pick up where you left off because we have to go to our middle break. Okay. And if anybody wants to join us with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us a first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

Please remember, folks, that this is the middle break, which is the longer break in the show. Be patient with us and use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers.

When you can't use money to patronize them, at the very least, contact our advertisers and thank them for sponsoring

Iron Trip and Zion Radio. That should go a long way to further ensure our advertisers that they are spending their money wisely by keeping

Iron Trip and Zion Radio in existence. They'll at least know that people are being blessed through this program which they are funding.

And, of course, send in your questions to chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Don't go away.

We're going to be right back with Dr. Paul Nelson and Dr. Eddie DelCour right after these messages.

Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church.

We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.

We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.

We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt

Christ. This is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.

Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.

Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Build. Fight. PuritanPHX .com

Hello, I'm Phil Johnson, Executive Director of Grace to You with John MacArthur. I've been a frequent guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I highly recommend this show.

But today I want to tell you about one of its advertisers, Rare Document Traders, far and away my favorite source for quality

Charles Spurgeon memorabilia. Are you looking for that special, unique gift for your pastor or missionary friend or a loved one?

Why not purchase a piece of church history that any believer would cherish? Rare Document Traders is your one -step source for Spurgeon's handwritten manuscripts and letters, as well as other rare books and collectible items from church history.

In 15 years that they've been in business, they've earned a stellar reputation in the Reformed community with thousands of satisfied customers all around the world, including me.

Visit RareDocTraders .com today. That's RareDocTraders .com.

Don't forget to mention you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. That's RareDocTraders .com.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Plumbing, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Plumbing is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the

Great Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,

Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Plumbing, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them

Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sends you.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

This is Darrell Bernard Harrison, co -host of the Just Thinking Podcast, and the NASB is my

Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Tom Buck at First Baptist Church in Glendale, Texas, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Andrew Rapport, the Founder and Executive Director at Striving for Eternity Ministries, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Mark Romaldi, Pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Christopher Cookston, Pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Matt Tarr, Pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the search bar. You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time, day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a

Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers. From Keach's Catechism and the

Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. Hi, this is

John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the

Internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris, if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. If you love

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser, who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing, is

Daniel P. Patafuoco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written word of God. They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts, along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.

Patafuoco, demonstrating the reliability of Scripture. To advance the cause of the

Gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611

King James Bible. This 17th century hand -engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the

Tower of Babel, and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums, and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. This is

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And, of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,

Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And don't forget folks, solid -ground -books .com

is still experiencing a book sales crisis. So I'm really hoping that many of you in my audience will come to the rescue and go to solid -ground -books .com

today and make as large a purchase of books as you possibly can afford to do.

And keep in mind you're not only going to be doing solid -ground -books .com a favor by purchasing books from them and you're not only going to be doing

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a favor by keeping one of our most important advertisers happy you're going to be doing yourself and anyone for whom you purchase books from solid -ground -books .com

an enormous favor of incalculable value because they bring back into print and also publish for the very first time nothing but the very finest in Christian literature going all the way back to the 16th century

Protestant Reformation often even over the centuries unearthing books that have been hidden by the rubble of time wonderful Christian books that many

Christians or most Christians have not even read sometimes for centuries and solid -ground -books .com

has discovered them and brought them back into print and also they bring back into print or should

I say they bring into print for the very first time modern works such as authors by Dr.

James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries so please go to solid -ground -books .com frequently purchased generously always mention that you heard about them from Chris Aronson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio before I return to Dr.

Paul Nelson and Dr. Eddie DelCour on our discussion today on apologetics and also promoting the upcoming

First Love Ministries Conference in Baghdad, Florida for which you could go to firstloveministries .org

for more details before I return to that discussion we have some very important announcements to make if you love this show folks and you don't want it to disappear please go to ironsharpensironradio .com

click support then click click to donate now you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion if you prefer advertising no matter what it is that you want to advertise please send us an email to chrisaronson at gmail .com

and as long as whatever you do want to promote is compatible with what I believe whether it's your church, para -church ministry, business, private practice like a law firm or a medical firm or a special event

I would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible so send me that email to chrisaronson at gmail .com

and put advertising in the subject line also keep in mind that you can send in checks via snail mail from your local post office at the address that appears on your screen when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com

please keep in mind folks that I never want anybody in my audience giving their own church where they are a member less money than you normally give that church in order to bless ironsharpensironradio .com

with a financial gift in other words do not cut into the finances that you have set aside for your

Lord's Day giving to your own local church in order to bless us don't do that and if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet wait until you're back on your feet and more financially stable before you bless us with a financial gift the bible is very clear that we are primarily to use the money with which he has blessed us and it's still his money to remind you we're primarily to use that money to provide for our church and our family and providing for ironsharpensironradio .com

is not a command of God obviously but if you love the show you don't want it to disappear and you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family you have extra money for benevolent recreational and trivial purposes please share some of that money with us if you want us to have a long future on the air go to ironsharpensironradio .com

click support then click click to donate now and last but not least if you are not a member of a

Christ -honoring biblically faithful theologically sound doctrinally solid church like First Baptist Church of Baghdad, Florida where the

First Love Ministries Bible Conference is being held well please send me an email no matter where in the world you live send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

but I need a church in the subject line I've helped many people all over the planet earth in my audience find churches sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live

I just helped today in fact two people find churches near where they live or where they will be moving and I hope that the churches that I recommended to them will be satisfactory to them and I'm looking forward to hearing updates from them and praise reports after they pay visits to these churches but wherever you live send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

but I need a church in the subject line if you are in that situation that's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr.

Paul Nelson and Dr. Eddie Delcor on apologetics give us a first name at least city and state and country of residence and send your emails to chrisarnson at gmail .com

Eddie Delcor I had to interrupt you because we were going to a midway break do you remember where you left off? Eddie Delcor are you there?

yes do you remember where you left off? yeah we were we were talking about the rapture no

I'm just kidding yeah we were talking about my book and the intention of the book and why it's called introduction to Christian apologetics because it's a basic field work of apologetics defining it and also communicating what it is and what it's not and the importance of having a set foundation in your faith and the importance of being able to communicate the gospel and understanding what the gospel is

I go to I go in detail simple detail to explain what the gospel is simply put the gospel is the work of the son it's not the work of man in his repentance obedience turning from sin sanctification and all these things that's the result of the gospel it's not

Jeremiah 29 11 it's not Revelation 3 20

I stand at the door knock all those either have different context or are not evangelistic meaning

Revelation Jesus was speaking to a church to Christians this deals with sanctification he's always knocking on our door but for evangelistic purposes in terms of the gospel that has to do with the work of the son

Paul says in Romans 1 16 clearly states it's the power of God for salvation in other words the gospel today as I point out the gospel today the cross work of the son because that's what it is the cross work of the son not the great things that man does but the cross work of the son in his perfect life and his in his propitiation in his atonement that is the and his resurrection of course in ascension to the father which is comprises of the gospel right as is his incarnation

Paul says in 2 Timothy 2 8 he says Jesus is he says remember

Jesus is a descendant the term is spermatoz he's a literal descendant of David affirming his incarnation but then

Paul says according to my gospel yes the incarnation is part of the cross work it's part of the atoning work of Christ it's part of his person and nature so is his deity

Jesus said unless you believe that I am you'll die in your sins unless you believe that I am eternal God you'll perish we have to understand what the gospel is and what it's not the simplicity of the gospel is the very means that God uses to save his people and it has the same power today as it did over 2 ,000 years ago and as I say over and over and over to people when teaching on evangelism or even the gospel you're always going to meet smarter people you're always going to meet people who have sophisticated arguments in their mind trying to somehow discredit the bible or trying to show that God doesn't exist and all these other mostly philosophical ideas and also it's interesting skeptics when they argue transmission immediately if you know anything about basics of textual criticism you know they have no idea what they're talking about but most

Christians don't they don't know how to argue textual issues but you gotta know how to communicate the basics of the gospel because you're always going to meet someone smarter than you but never never never never underestimate the power of the gospel for salvation the crosswork and understand what it is the crosswork of Christ it's not even the love of God because the love of God if you want to see a presentation of the love of God read the epistles how

God loves us is incomprehensible I don't understand how much God loves believers it's all through the epistles but in the book of Acts it's very interesting from chapter 1 through 28 we have about 30 years of messages and sermons right of the apostles the acts of the apostles did you know

Chris there's not one time that the word love is even used in 30 years of sermons and messages we don't find not one time the word love not because they didn't love anyone you mean in the book of Acts in the book of Acts yeah we don't find the word love in any form there's only two and a half words

I always say half because there's one word for love in Greek in New Testament Greek storge but that's only used once but philos and agape those are the two basic generic words for love you don't find any word for love in the book of Acts but what you do find is a presentation of the cross work of Christ and the entire context from verses chapter 1 through 28 is the resurrection of Christ that's what they preach they preach the cross work of Christ and if you believe in him you'll just be blown away at reading the letters for you for Christians of how much

God loves the believers unbelievable that the kind of love God we can't even understand it but I'm saying we can't confuse man's response man's obedience and everything else confuse that with the substance of what the gospel is that's why

Paul says he's eager you know in verse 16 of chapter 1 of Romans Paul says the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes the

Jew first and the Gentile but in verse 15 the verb of the noun to evangelize uangelizo interesting in verse 15 he says to the

Roman church I'm eager to evangelize you to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome my question is always and I point this out in the book why was

Paul eager to preach the gospel to the church of Rome some people would say well they weren't saved and I would say well he's not talking about the church of Rome today that would be true if he was talking about the church of Rome today no he's talking about Christians Christians in Rome because he's eager

I think Chris I think every pastor should be eager to preach the gospel to the congregation to increase their knowledge to make them better just as Aquila and Priscilla taught a more effectual way to Apollos and this guy look at the accolades that we hear of Apollos right in Acts 18 he was accurate he was zealous but he was accurate he understood the scripture and all these things but Priscilla and Aquila saw some slight defects which makes me think they must have been really proficient in doctrine to say hey there's some things you gotta get better at I think

Paul in verse 15 he was so eager to preach the gospel because he wants his congregation to increase their knowledge of what the gospel is

I'm eager to preach to Christians the gospel because they need to learn what's more effectual in their doctrine their doctrine has to come up to speed there's too many misunderstandings

Chris dealing with too many Christians because they're not adequately taught and I said this before and I say this on my chapter on the trinity keep in mind this book

Chris it has sections on the trinity the deity of Christ and at the end it gives mock dialogue of several different groups like a couple pages for each group for instance

Muslims I will present their chief arguments just a few of their main ones and the proper

Christian response same with Jehovah's Witnesses and I have two pages on Mormonism and then

I deal with Roman Catholics of course to be sure and then I deal with the chief arguments of oneness

Unitarian Pentecostals oneness Pentecostals who believe in a Unitarian God their main arguments you know

God is one one person so on and so forth the son is a mode of Jesus you know we

I just did a show with Tony Costa and T .D. Jakes who is a oneness he's probably the most popular oneness anti anti -Christian anti -Trinitarian anti -Christian doctrine preacher out there and everyone it's funny

Chris every time you say that people think it's like a race thing T .D. Jakes denies the

Trinity to be sure we did a show with him he actually clarified it even more vividly very recently because there were people that were claiming oh we're not too sure about that he seems to be coming closer and closer to Trinitarianism no he made it clear recently perhaps unintentionally in fact

Virgil Walker of G3 Ministries posted a video on it where he was preaching and he said something right now

I can't remember exactly what it was but it was proof positive that he was a modalist yeah he he relies you know what

Chris you know what keeps him afloat aside from the zillions of dollars he gets here's what keeps him afloat here's what keeps him moving here's what keeps him going in his giant ministry in his new divinity so called seminary which is horrible same doctrinal statement as the potter's house

God exists in three dimensions a modalistic school here's what keeps him going the biblical literacy of his followers he relies on that because if they weren't biblically biblically illiterate on essential doctrines they wouldn't follow him same with Joyce Myers same with we can go down the list if you're biblically solid in your faith and in your doctrine you're not going to follow these guys you're going to speak out against Chris these one one point

I think it's important one point that I make in my book is the difference between essential and secondary theology essential theology has to do with doctrines that are crucial crucial to one's faith as a

Christian their doctrines that have to do with Jesus's person nature and finished work in which all other doctrines would be secondary you know methodology of baptism gifts of the spirit eschatology all those are secondary if you deny the doctrine of the trinity you're denying how

God revealed himself if you deny that Jesus Christ is unipersonal meaning he's one person and he's the two natured person you're denying something about him you don't have the

Jesus of the Bible T .D. Jakes doesn't have the Jesus of the Bible he has another Jesus and he's infecting biblically illiterate people now

I can't say every single person that follows him is not a Christian but they're extremely biblically illiterate and Chris our job this is what first love actually does when we go international in these countries they don't have you know they're not exposed to a lot of good teaching in fact when in Nigeria when first love team's going to Nigeria that's just peppered with bad doctrine but you know what as you know

Chris out here out here is the false teachers and false doctrine are so prolific and it's in direct proportion with the

Christians failing their lack of study the Christians failing to do what the

Christians were supposed to do and so that's what the book essentially deals with and also real life samples of interactions with various false religions including

Islam and Rome and oneness and it also presents the nuts and bolts of essential doctrines on the gospel the gospel of the son amen well we do have some listener questions we have

Gallagher in point lookout New York I'm wondering if it's the same Gallagher that smashes watermelons with a sledgehammer

Gallagher in point lookout New York has actually two questions the first is what is your opinion about the incremental approach of many apologists it seems to me where they are incrementalizing the witness to the truth of the existence of God by trying to make atheists theists and then later at some other stage convincing them that Jesus Christ is truly the son of man and the son of God that he is

God incarnate and the gospel is necessary for salvation that's the first question perhaps we'll go to you

Eddie first and then we'll have Paul answer it yeah I don't I don't agree in you know not that we you know we should be respectful and and and but we can't confuse being respectful with tolerance we don't want to tolerate anything no

I mean my methodology I would use the the method of the apostles I disagree with doing that I think you should have a coherent dialogue but keep in mind no matter what you say it's going to be bb's being thrown against the wall unless God you know shaped because they're in bondage to sin there is a noetic effect of sin their minds are different no matter what you say you can increment you you can you can present increments you know in soft pedal and friendship evangelism all these things or you can just present the gospel the fact of matter is nothing's going to work unless God opens their eyes but the gospel is the very means that we're called to use and look at the example of the apostle

Paul and look at the example of the apostles and the apostles and acts they didn't do that they were sharp and they were concise not long winded just saying you know lots of words but they gave the gospel in a very definitive very coherent way because the gospel is a simple way

I think people that do that way provide these in increments that kind of methodology

I think sometimes they're a little shy at presenting the gospel up front and I just don't think it's the method of the scripture

I don't think it really works because that's assuming that I think it's more of an

Arminian method actually I mean we but don't don't get me wrong we have to pray

I always do before you get into dialogue pray for wisdom because maybe there's a point you're going to you know start with some kind of starter you know hey you know

I'm from Wisconsin or whatever but get to the cross as fast as possible but pray for wisdom pray for the wisdom of God in in the dialogue even when you're talking to people when you have answers when you when you can easily yank down their arguments pray for wisdom as to how to approach that pray for wisdom as to what passage or what method you're going to use in terms of a series of passages or how are you going to explain that Jesus Christ is the son of God resurrected

Savior you know in what way so you know but I don't agree with them you know it's subjective though it depends how you know

I've seen areas where they take so much time before they get to the gospel to me it's point to me it's not productive because here's the here's the problem

Chris and the person asked the question inquiring about that promise Chris I can spend a half hour with an atheist arguing creation you know how it has to be the result of a of a designer you know in the existence of God and all these things but you know

Chris after a half hour I didn't once get to the gospel and guess what he gets a phone call and he has to go he leaves and you never said anything about the gospel

I've seen that happen over and over because you don't know what's in the next five minutes you're the recipient that atheist he may have a may have to leave and you never got to the gospel so you know get to the cross work as fast as possible and try not to give give small talk and friendship and all these things just get to the gospel as they did in X and Paul you have anything to add yeah a little bit to add

I think when you mentioned the incremental approach to apology apologetics something that I would really disagree with because you spend a lot of time with evidences trying to prove the existence of God and you don't use the scripture the problem is not using scripture because then say you convince someone of the existence of God then what

God does he believe in right in use of the Bible or or you know they can you know

I know being a scientist that they don't believe in you know any kind of miracle so when when you talk to them about the resurrection of Christ or the incarnation of Christ if they're convinced of it they say well this is something that we don't understand now but given enough time and enough investigation and enough and new methodology new instruments we can we can we'll be able to explain that in the future sometime you know so that they you know there's there's a problem in this incremental because you're working outside of outside of scripture and and when you do that I mean you're

Eddie was talking you know about the noetic effects of sin and and when you don't give precedent to the to the noetic effects of sin in your evangelistic efforts um what happens is that you go over to the one you know the world's uh worldview and so this is something that that we don't capitulate you know the scripture in a theistic worldview so that we can argue and convince them of the of the existence of God from things that are not from scripture um but you know on on the one hand every fact of creation is a

God is God's fact God God ordained it

God declared it God decreed it God defined it and God interpreted it so in that sense uh we have to give the same meaning to a fact so it's not about uh it's not necessarily about the facts we all agree on the facts but it's the interpretation of the facts and how we interpret it and they interpret it by putting man's reason uh first and putting man and presupposing man's ability to reason over the word of God so um

I think incremental can get you into some trouble I think we need to start with scripture and Gallagher's uh second question is where exactly is

Baghdad on the Florida map what cities is it close to and also is the conference going to be live -streamed for those of us who cannot get there yeah that that city might uh scare people off unless they are fully reminded that it's in Florida it's also it's also spelled different than the middle eastern

Baghdad you know um well this is radio this is radio yeah yeah it's it's a little different it's it's about an hour um

I think it's about an hour east isn't it Paul hour east of um of uh of Pensacola I believe

I don't think it's quite an hour maybe a half an hour half hour yeah it's close to Milton too but I think uh yeah it's it's uh and it's

Baghdad um B -A -G -D -A -D I believe yeah um yeah so I think it's yeah about a half hour of um

I think it's east of Pensacola close to Milton and will it be live streamed for those of our listeners who can't get there you know

I'm not sure of that Paul do you know yeah I heard it was um I don't have too much information on it but I heard it will be live streamed well don't forget folks go to firstlove ministries .org

for all the details and remember that you uh will only get the free books if you show up at the conference physically and uh for those of you who are living in an area where you're close enough to travel or if you just have the time and the funds to travel from wherever you are there is nothing like being present at a conference uh there is no comparison to watching something on live stream just there just isn't uh so and actually as we just got that note it's in it's actually the conference is actually in Milton okay well yeah

I guess it's one of those things where uh there's a town I know that there must be some town in Baghdad but anyway um and joe jackowitz the founder and president of first love ministries just confirmed it will be live streamed okay um let's see here uh we have chloe in wolfville canada and chloe asks there are many evangelicals even reformed christians who have a totally different approach to roman catholicism than one then that which was once common meaning that roman catholics were viewed as a mission field now it seems that the differences are considered intramural and in house isn't this a tragic mistake because after all dogmatically the roman catholic church has a different gospel than those who claim to be heirs of the protestant reformation you know chloe that that was an excellent question because it it is stated by a lot of so -called evangelical christians that rome is coming close to more close to protestantism or evangelism evangelistic um uh ideas but the fact of matter is protestantism is coming more toward rome you know in the way they see salvation and all and all in this synergistic kind of uh salvation approach the fact of matter is even from from the early from the early start um of polemics against rome one of the reasons one of the fundamental doctrines that separates rome from christianity which is you know from from early before the council of trent to today is simply this they embrace the followers embrace as rome teaches an impotent savior who can neither save infallibly nor permanently nor can he save alone he he can't save without his mother you would think he's italian and rome denies that jesus's crosswork and they won't argue this point they deny that his crosswork alone is the very ground of justification that aside from the marion blasphemous idolatry aside from the uh papal infallibility aside from their view that that that god's word is not contained in scripture alone aside from those the fundamental doctrine that clearly separates rome from christianity is simply that it denies justification through faith alone and that was paul's main thesis so you know i can go on about you know about their view transubstantiation that denies and deforms the incarnation of christ and their weird idolatrous marion doctrines but really um it rejects she rejects rome justification by faith alone so yes i think christians have to stay strong and understand the differences between protestantism and between and it's not just a reform issue there's many non -reformed churches that come against rome for these issues they deny justification through faith alone and the idolatrous marion doctrines yes and one uh wouldn't you agree could accurately say that rome is coming closer to protestantism but not the wing that is actually biblically faithful they're coming closer to the apostate leftist uh sometimes called mainline churches not all mainline churches are apostate but a great multitude of them are uh so i know that the more conservative and traditionalist roman catholics would make that claim you know that they would even yeah they would even say that um they would even say pope francis is more of a leftist protestant than he is a roman catholic yeah he's like the joel osten osten you know roman catholicism you know um but even joel osten even joel osten i think is like cornelius van till in comparison to pope francis hey joel osten is a nice guy too right just a smiling nice well i'm sure i'm sure that pope francis is infinitely more intelligent than joel osten but uh the pope the current pope is so dark into leftism it's disturbing i think that one of the roman catholicism um or roman catholics need to understand that if you look at the history of popes there was some really bad popes out there that were just as evil as can be as heretical as can be you know like pope benedict the ninth i mean this guy the youngest pope ever right i think he was a teenager and there was so much sexual immorality and he was he was as even the catholic encyclopedia refers to him as a disgrace to the chair of peter you know he even sold his papacy to his grandfather so you know in honor honorius who flat out you know hold held to uh a jesus had one will monothelitism um he was anathema nice uh for that by popes after him i think 11 years after his death you know so i mean there was some really bad popes out there they were corrupt and doctrinally heretical um i mean in that they would see as heretical they're all heretical because they all deny christ as lord as risen savior whose crosswork is the very means of salvation now i say that because chris what my view because rome has such a defective view against uh in its christology in terms of deforming the incarnation of the transubstantiation making a transubstantiation ubiquitous um kind of body which is not the incarnation of paul talk between that and his unalone um so -called sacrifice they don't have the christ that i have they don't have the christ in scripture that says who paul says he became a righteousness that's not the they don't have the christ of biblical revelation you can say jesus is lord all day long you can say i believe in the trinity the virgin birth the physical resurrection the ascension but if you deny his cross work you can't separate the two if you deny his cross work the fact is you don't have the christ of scripture you would deny the christ of scripture therefore i don't hold to the view um i don't agree with rome on the trinity they have a different trinity than i have because they deny the second person of the holy trinity as infallible savior all right by the way paul we have to go to our final break so you could pick up where any of you left off if you'd like when we return this is our final okay this is our final break folks if you want to join us send it in your email now chris orans in at gmail dot com don't go away we'll be right back james white of alpha omega ministries here if you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough you know i have a great love for getting bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity and besides that they feel so good i'm so delighted i discovered post tenebrous lux bible rebinding no radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently but i'll give it a shot jeffrey rice of post tenebrous lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan all his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in italy used for my nestle all in 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inserted in the electric blue goat skin from a french tannery used to rebind a reformation study bible i used as a gift the silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather making whatever he rebinds a one of a kind work of art for more details on post tenebrous lux bible rebinding go to ptl bible rebinding dot com that's ptl bible rebinding dot com every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions coffee shops and local hangouts long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need jesus we are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island youth by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following christ long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since nineteen fifty nine we have a world class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call long island youth for christ at six three one three eight five eight three three three that's six three one three eight five eight three three three or visit l i y f c dot org that's l i y f c dot org hi i'm buzz taylor chris arntzen of iron sharpens iron radio has had a long time partnership with our friends at cv bbs which stands for cumberland valley bible book service they specialize in supplying reformed and puritan books and bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for everyone cv bbs has been a family owned book service since nineteen eighty seven operating out of carlisle pennsylvania they seek to bring you the best available christian books and bibles at the best possible prices unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because frankly much of what is being printed is not worth your time that means you can get to the good stuff faster it also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic heretical and otherwise faith insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence at cumberland valley bible book service order online at cv bbs dot com that's cv bbs dot com or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231 that's 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 1 -800 -656 -0231 of choice.

I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of East Fort Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of the

Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew

Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

I'm Brian McLaughlin, President of the Secure Comm Group, and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program.

The Secure Comm Group provides the highest level of security, closed -circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.

We custom install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, off -site viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices.

From simple code -activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the

Secure Comm Group has it. We also provide the latest in intercom and IP telephone systems.

In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network.

Whether it's a Wi -Fi or hardwire network, we'll the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.

I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners and their associates.

For more details on how the Secure Comm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit securecommgroup .com.

That's securecommgroup .com. This is Brian McLaughlin of the Secure Comm Group, joining

Chris Arnzen's family of advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Welcome back, folks. I want to remind you that this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.

I've known my dear friend and brother in Christ, Dan Buttafuoco, back as far back as the 1990s, and he has financially supported nearly every single thing

I've set my hand to do. Not even merely just this radio program, but every public event that I've had, including the debates that I've had over the decades with Dr.

James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and other events. He has been there helping these things to continue to exist with his finances.

So if you have been the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice, go to 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com,

1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com, or call them at that toll -free number, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT.

And this is applicable to every single person in the United States. All 50 states are eligible.

So call 1 -800 -NOW -HURT or go to 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com. Mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, please.

Also, I want to remind all men in ministry leadership that you are invited to the next

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon on Thursday, June the 6th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m.

at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. This is a free event, and not only will you get free admission and free food, but every person attending will receive a heavy sack of free brand new books personally selected by me and donated by Christian publishers all over the

United States and United Kingdom. And we typically also have a visit from Tom Smith of First Love Publications, who also has a book table out there of free books, and we hope that he comes this

June as well. So send me an email if you'd like to register, absolutely free of charge. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put Pastors Luncheon in the subject line. We're now back, and I'd like each of you to have two minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners when it comes to this conference coming up.

We'll start with you, Eddie Delcor. Jesus said that true worships of God, true worshipers of the

God, worship Him in spirit and truth. We must, all Christians, must honor God in our doctrine and our life, but in our doctrine, correctly proclaiming the work of the

Son, the cross work of the Son, correctly communicating how God revealed

Himself to His people through the pages of Scripture as triune.

And we're called to honor the Son even as we honor the Father. So by claiming the person of the

Son, this is very important, especially to those who evangelize. By proclaiming the person of the

Son as God, we honor the Father and Son. We worship

God in spirit and truth. That's what we're doing. And since the New Testament and the Old Testament are the earliest revelations of God, then we, you know, we would ask the question, why are there so many different views?

Well, we have to understand our recipients of evangelism. They don't have the ability to hear their embodiment of sin.

And Paul says only the gospel, the accurate, simple gospel, the cross work,

His perfect life, His death, His resurrection, His ascension to the Father, the cross work of the

Son is the very power of God for salvation. And we call

His cross work the gospel. So I want everyone to take these things seriously and to really increase your knowledge.

As Paul says, he's eager to preach the gospel to Christians. Well, we want to be eager to increase our knowledge of who

God is and the gospel of the Son. And I want to see you. We want to see you at that conference in Florida coming up February 23rd,

I think is the first day. I'm excited about it. I know Dr. Nelson's excited about it.

I can't wait to see you guys. And Dr. Paul Nelson, if you could summarize what you most want our listeners to remember.

I just quote out of Peter, 2 Peter, grow in grace and in the knowledge of our

Son and Savior, Jesus Christ. I think the Word of God is so important for us to know and to study it and to be well acquainted with it.

It's the basis of everything and the standard of all knowledge and reality.

The thing about the study of the Word of God is you never arrive. God is always opening up new things out of the

Word of God. We're always discovering new things. It's such a wonderful thing.

And you could study the Bible your whole life, and it's new every day. So my encouragement is for the study of the

Word of God. We'll be teaching on the Holy Spirit, and the

Holy Spirit is misunderstood in so many different ways. And hopefully we'll be able to clear up some of that at the conference.

So thank you. Amen. And don't forget, folks, you can find out all the details that you need for this conference to register and also to be put on an email list.

Go to FirstLoveMinistries .org, FirstLoveMinistries .org,

and I highly recommend anybody that can get there to attend this conference. And I'd like to take these final moments to remind our listeners of our great need for donations and advertisers.

Please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

If you can find it within your heart and within your finances to help support this radio program.

And also, if you want to advertise, as long as whatever it is you do is compatible with what

I believe, please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And I want to remind everybody listening, I hope you all remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. We look forward to hearing from you and your questions for our next guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.