April 11, 2016 Show with Mitch Pridgen on “An Arminian’s Journey into Sovereign Grace”

The Meaning of Iron Sharpens Iron and the Program’s Purpose

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's.

Our host Chris. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity who are living on the planet earth listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 11th day of April 2016 and I am delighted after meeting this dear brother in Florida not long ago when I traveled down south to be the emcee of a debate that was being held down in Florida featuring my friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and his opponent Greg Strawbridge.

I was delighted to meet during Dr. White's travels to two different churches in Florida where he spoke. Our brother today who is our guest, Pastor Mitch Prigden of the Crosswalk Church of Daytona Beach, Florida, and I have kept in touch with this dear brother and have become more and more enthusiastic about not only him as a servant of God shepherding a flock of God's people there in Florida, but also to get to know him as a brother in Christ and friend and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron, Mitch Prigden.

How are you my brother? I'm doing better than I deserve as always. How are you doing?

My last name throws people and you're not the only one. My brother is Pridgen. Pridgen. Okay, that's all right. Listen, I have friends that do that still to this day so.

That's all right. Okay brother, well I will seek to do my best not to make the same mistake. That's okay, that's all right. And yes, I'm primarily calling you Pastor Mitch whenever I'm speaking. That's exactly right.

And let me, on the air at least, introduce you to my friend who is co-hosting again with me today, the Reverend Buzz Taylor. Well hello Mitch and.

Welcome to the program. How are you Buzz? Nice to meet you. Nice to talk with you too.

And today we are going to be discussing something that is very controversial in the body of Christ. We are going to be hearing about an Arminian's journey into sovereign grace and that former Arminian that we're talking about is our guest Mitch Pridgen, Pastor of Crosswalk Church of Daytona Beach, Florida.

And this is something that's controversial because this is an area that sadly still, and perhaps always will until Christ returns, divide the body of Christ theologically. Although all of us involved in today's program would hold to Arminian brothers in Christ as brothers in Christ.

We though disagree with them and they disagree with us on issues that we think are very serious and very important. They're not trivial, they're not inconsequential or anything such as that. But they still would not, the differences would not bar fellowship among brother in Christ.

Would you agree with that assessment Pastor Mitch?

Oh absolutely I agree with that. I wish that I could say that the grace was in me. Sometimes I feel like we are as Reformed believers more willing to extend grace to those who do not agree with us than some who that do not agree with us are willing to extend to us.

I noticed that through the transition that I was willing to show my brothers that did not hold the same position as I had moved into. They were not willing to show me and I was willing to show them.

It was amazing. Yeah I've experienced that too because the church where I came to Christ, the Sunday school administrator told my sister-in-law that my family had joined a cult.

It's almost as if they say well you suddenly become one of those and I'll tell you later an interesting story in regards to that when we were able a few years ago to purchase our existing building from another church.

Well I'd also like you before we even get into the.

Crosswalk Church in Daytona Beach and the Context of the Conversation

Topic at hand I'd like you to tell our listeners about Crosswalk Church in Daytona and we'll start.

Off there. Tell us more about that. Okay great. Crosswalk Church is actually a church plant. It began in January of 2003 and the reason that that Bible study began in our home. I had served as a co-pastor with a local church just about 10 miles north of Daytona Beach for five years and at that time brother Chris they embraced a a model of ministry primarily the purpose-driven model of ministry and for all practical purposes began to abandon the preaching of the gospel.

And so I tried to remedy that for about five years and I realized that simply was not going to go anywhere. We began to look for a solid biblical church in the area and there were some 10 or 12 miles away from us one or two in particular and but there was nothing in our area in the south part of Volusia County which is around Daytona Beach and so we decided that what I decided to do is I'd bring my family together and any friends who wanted to join us on a Sunday morning and we would begin to and that's how Crosswalk Church actually began in 2003.

And tell our listeners something about Daytona Beach where your church is located. Well Daytona.

Beach is an interesting area as is a lot of places in Florida. I mean we're not unique to many other places here but this is a I don't mean that in the sense of homeless transit people I'm talking come in because we have a lot of that too but people who will simply come in and then move out come in and move out there's a constant flow of people in and out so it has been a bit of a challenge to plant a church in that environment and especially in regards to the transition that we went through planting of Crosswalk Church.

And you're the home of NASCAR aren't you? We are the home of NASCAR. Well we have a couple things we have named to fame though we actually bill ourselves as the world's most famous beach. If you go to the actual the main entrance to Daytona Beach it says with a large banner over it the world's most famous beach so we we've said that for years and we have spending about a half a billion.

And we also are the home to bike week which is just a few weeks ago passed as well as over the years as they tighten the restrictions but this is a pretty active place. Well since we.

Are talking about the doctrines of sovereign grace that are also nicknamed Calvinism and they're also nicknamed reform theology. They're also sometimes nicknamed the doctrines of free grace. But unfortunately there is a heretical group that has kind of kidnapped that name the group that denies repentance as being necessary for salvation.

In fact they would consider it damnable to teach that it is. So unfortunately that that title of free grace although a beautiful title is it kind of muddies the waters because other people are using it.

But if you could summarize what that is I sometimes take it for granted that all of my listeners are either themselves thoroughly reformed in their theology or know a lot about the subject but that's not necessarily the case.

I do have new listeners that discover the program who are not even Christian on occasion. So if you could define in a summary form what you mean by the doctrines of grace.

Oh yeah I love the term sovereign grace. I think even though free grace as you mentioned is a beautiful term I think the word sovereign grace is so wonderful. I think many Christians in fact most Christians will use loosely the term of sovereignty when they refer to God.

They're very willing to say that God is sovereign over a lot of different things. If I were to sovereign grace if I were to find reformed theology it is that belief that God alone sovereign with God that God is somehow restricted or limited by man's willingness salvation.

God is a sovereign grace that regenerates a person. It is God's sovereign grace that actually calls a person. It is God's sovereign grace that preserves a person. Yeah it's ironic.

That there are people who love the Lord who trust in the Lord and believe that things will always work out better if God is in control of them except for the salvation of individuals. That somehow is going to be better off left in the hands of sinners who have the world the flesh.

And the devil tearing them the opposite direction and leaving salvation in the hands of unregenerate people somehow who somehow muster themselves when that at least from my perspective is not what the.

And what do you think are the the greatest accusations or most prevalent or most frequently made accusations against what we believe that really confuse the issue. It's it's a revelation or an indication that many if not most people who despise the doctrines that we love the doctrines of sovereign grace they are really hating something that either does not exist at all as far as a systematic theology or they're hating a caricature or distortion of it that unfortunately some who claim the name of calvinist uh do adhere to and proclaim but i would i would say it is a small minority of those within the reformed community a tiny minority.

But if you what what is the the biggest complaint that you have experienced against these things.

Well the biggest complaint that i have experienced personally is the fact of god. He find it to been doing an exposition on sunday mornings for over 9 10 and 11. And i remember paul is giving a defense of his teaching.

The first defense he has to there are those who accusing him that the word of god has failed because his message is being rejected. But secondly and which i think is what we find most often is that there many will will complain that there is somehow injustice on god's part as chapter 9 verse 14 actually says in roman if sovereign election is true and so in other words we determine term that in this this terminology that's not fair.

Exactly. Yes that's not fair. That's the number one. If i were to say this is the number one argument that i hear that's not fair. And you.

Know it's interesting that when you use the language of fairness and man's understanding of fairness i don't know how an armenian or a non-reformed christian could think it is any fairer for there to be a requirement of faith in christ in order to be saved.

And yet there are people millions of them who either never heard the gospel at all over the centuries or if they were to hear it and believe in it may be tortured and executed. That that is somehow a fair entrance into heaven.

That litmus test of faith in christ. Wet. And yet on the other the other side of the sure we were here in the united states and other places in europe and other places people freely embrace and follow jesus christ and hear about him in abundance.

They have perhaps even been raised in christian homes with godly parents maybe even raised by pastors a pastor and his wife. And and that is somehow fair that some people are going to heaven and some going to hell without christ.

And yet the we are not clearly on the same on a level playing field globally or throughout the centuries. Right. Absolutely yeah. And uh even if you were to say that you're a universalist and that all people are going to heaven how is that fair that the godly person who lived a life of sacrifice and service is going to have the same reward as hitler.

Uh that that is not fair either. So i mean it seems that all this talk about fairness uh no one really has an argument that holds water when you're uh trying to bring in a uh a a person going to heaven who doesn't.

To be there to begin with absolutely. You know fairness. That are arguing in regards to the injustice on god's part if sovereign election for example is actually true. Or finding fairness. And my point when i have conversation with people on this area is god.

God does not do something because he deems it fair. What god does is fair. What god does is for example people say well god does good but the good is what they interpret good to be from their own perspective.

No. God doesn't really do something because it is good. God himself by his actions determines what is good.

Yeah well even as i've heard over and over again it was that very argument that i had that led me to reform theology because paul called my bluff there in romans 9 you know. And the answer really had me stop and think.

His answer wasn't to explain the deep things of god that we can't understand. His answer was who are you to answer back to god which told me yes. I rightfully came to the human conclusion that it was unfair otherwise paul would never have answered that way.

Exactly. Well let's hear something about your personal story. What. What kind of a religious home if any. Uh were you raised in. What was the environment of religion in your home. And how did you come to christ.

And then obviously how did you first discover and embrace the doctrines of.

Mitch Pridgen’s Conversion and Early Christian Life

Sovereign grace. Well very early very early in my childhood there was not very much of a religious influence. I say very early in my probably prior to my grade school years she came into our home and so um that was an ideal opportunity for my parents to get my brother out of the house on have some time together in that westland pentecostal church.

The methodist was not a christian told me you know you're at a point now where you need to make this. Go to church up on sunday morning and go. Anywhere. From the age of 14 to the age of 25 i just had nothing to do with the church never really truly become a believer anyway as a child.

And so it was not that i turned away from the church. I had really never turned 79 when i help as a even though at that time i did not recognize it. Chris it was in the greatest clearest demonstration of sovereign grace and especially on the doctrine of irresistible grace that i mean.

I should have seen it could have been written any clearer had god taken his finger and written on the wall the way that my my regeneration and conversion happened in that january of 1979. I wasn't seeking god.

Well no one can do that anyway. But i wasn't looking for him and god sovereignly broke in that shocked not only.

Me but shocked everybody around me. And so after this miracle of god raising you from the dead spiritually regenerating you uh calling you to himself uh and you are a christian how long were you an active christian as a wesleyan arminian.

Charismatic. Oh my goodness. From from that time of.

1979 when i was born again truly born again in 1979 until around 2000 uh even though trek out quite a bit. 1979 when i began to i was beginning to see very clearly as god was now giving myself and as i studied the word of god and studies did not measure and indoctrinated how i had even been taught and giving myself to to expositional really began to do.

How that happened. So you.

Had already entered the ministry before this transformation. Oh absolutely i've been in the.

Ministry i was when i was born again in 1979 and in 19 it was 18 months older to go to bible college. I'd been out of college since 1976 and now was going back in 84 as a husband and a father of a child in 1985.

I entered bible college in 1984 and in 1985 i my first pastor in rural georgia.

Of a small pentecostal church. So tell us about what the lord was using to chip away at your heart in regard to the doctrines of grace. Uh and by the way the way that you've described your christian testimony should also make it clear to our listeners especially those who are arminian or non-reformed.

Because i know that not all non-reformed people care to be categorized as arminians. But in fact most probably don't. But um you know what it is probably right. And they also say that they prefer to uh identify as bible believing christians.

But then of course so do people who are in cults and so do people in all kinds of backgrounds. So i am not one of the people that avoids labels. Uh constantly for any season or occasion. Uh because sometimes you need to clarify things.

But um but for those of those of our listeners who are not theologically believing in the sovereign grace of god uh this is proof your testimony that you believe that uh you were a christian before believing in calvinism or reform theology.

Because the the frequent accusation that i hear which obviously reveals a total misunderstanding is that we believe that arminians are lost until they come to see these things.

Right and i would i would never make that accusation against anyone because of that particular theological position that they hold. I think there may come a time in their experience if they simply reject and or that there might be some warrant of questioning that.

But i would never make that type of blanket accusation because i'm fully persuaded um even now knowing what the lord has brought me to and bringing me into that my regeneration was genuine. I really i know in 1979 i was genuinely generated by the by the sovereign work of god.

That the process from that time until in the late 90s when god began to really bring me out of that mindset theologically into the doctrines of grace and sovereign grace um that the growth process for me.

But i it still never calls me to question nature of my regeneration. Uh well the claim is often made.

That by uh those who oppose what we believe that nobody would ever believe in calvinism unless they were taught it by a calvinist or read a calvinist book that reading the bible is never going to bring you to the doctrines of of sovereign grace or reform theology.

Well it's first of all it's an interesting argument because most people who become a christian of any theological background or denomination are hearing about it from a human being who is teaching them something.

So it's hardly an argument at all. But you know very few people are discovering a bible on the ground in the woods reading it and becoming christians. But but uh having said that can a person without the tutelage of a reformed person come to see that these truths that we would call biblical truths reformed teachings calvinism the doctrines of sovereign grace are are clearly the the teaching.

Of god. Oh absolutely. And the reason that i say absolutely with such confidence is that we have the greatest teacher we have the spirit of god who lives in us who is the author of our scriptures so as we give ourselves to have the instruction of the truth the word of god.

I i did not have any from reformed teachers. In fact i'll give you an example of that. Chris i remember homiletics class. My my last year in bible college homiletics professor was actually surprisingly even though he was in a westland bursk and theological seminary actually taken the bible and prepared for weeks.

My message for my homiletics class. It was a graded class and i preached through my grading sheet. Looked at me and smiled and said you know that would preach. I did not even really know what of course he did because he was.

It was only as i i look back for example my preaching notes over the years as i was going through this transition and this journey. Before we go to a break i want to tell you a humorous story that uh some of our listeners.

May have heard me tell before. So be patient with me if i'm repeating a story to you that you've already heard ad nauseum infinitum but oh no not that one but anyway uh the i worked for a radio station for 15 years uh in new jersey that primarily had a new york city audience and uh i got a call one day from an arminian fundamentalist baptist pastor although he would not call himself an arminian he would just say he was a bible believing fundamentalist but he was clearly opposed to calvinism.

He called me one day and he said a orthodox jewish journalist wants to pay for a two-hour block of time on the radio to debate me live on whether jesus christ is truly taught as uh being god in the new testament.

He fancies himself as a student of the new testament even though he rejects its teachings and rejects christ as his messiah. But he has read the new testament for many years wants to debate me on the deity of jesus christ.

So i arranged this debate that this jewish journalist paid for with his own money this airtime. And i was listening in utter fascination when i hear this elderly jewish man say to his arminian baptist opponent now let me get this straight.

Your bible teaches that before the foundation of the world god shows a certain group of people to receive eternal life and go to heaven. And he passes by all the others which would probably be the majority of humanity.

He passes them by and they will go to hell. And the baptist pastor says oh no no no you got that wrong. You're talking about calvinism. And this elderly jewish man says i'm talking about what he says calvinism.

That's what you're talking about. He goes what's calvinism. He goes well yeah that's what you're talking about calvinism. But some people are chosen and some people are not. That's not biblical christianity.

That's calvinism. He goes hey look i don't know what for this calvinism is but i can tell you that what i am saying is in your bible. And i i called the radio station that i worked for and i said you gotta tell ira to wait after the show and speak to me on the phone because i have to speak with him immediately when this show is over because i want to tell him he is right in his understanding of the new testament.

He's not right in his conclusion to reject it. But he was absolutely right in the way that he was reading it. And that was an example of somebody who had never even heard of john calvin didn't know anything about reform theology who just took it for granted by studying it that.

That's what we believe. Because because it is actually it is the biblical gospel. Yes it is the biblical gospel and that's really what came home to me chris and boss. Is that it diligent study of the script.

I saw it was the biblical gospel before i really even knew that there were.

All these debates and arguments. Right. Yeah we have to go to a break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for our guest pastor mitch pridgin our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

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We don't want you to identify your church by name and perhaps misrepresent what the pastor actually teaches. Unintentionally. Of course. But you may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable.

But if you can identify at least your first name city and state and country we would appreciate that. We're going to be right back after these messages. So don't go away. I'm james white of.

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The Doctrines of Sovereign Grace and the Charge of Unfairness

Of iron sharpens iron radio. Welcome back. This is chris arms and if you just tuned us in our guest today is pastor mitch pridgin of the uh. I just flew out of my head here the crosswalk crosswalk crosswalk church in daytona beach florida.

I'm sorry about that. I was okay. I was reading a an emailed question from a listener so i got kind of thrown off track there. And we are to talk. We are talking about an armenian journey into sovereign grace.

Uh we are starting off with pastor mitch pridgin's own personal journey into this theology and then we're going to be more involved in the second hour in how the church where he pastors was transformed into a uh sovereign grace believing church.

And if you'd like to join us on the air as well our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Might as well read that question. I was looking at uh from harrison in mechanicsburg pennsylvania.

Your guest failed to answer or or inform us whether his church that he pastors is baptistic or presbyterian in nature.

Okay that that's that is an easy one to answer. We are baptistic. Amen. And i know.

My co-host and uh goes along very beautifully with the rest of your teachings which are squarely biblical. We'll have a discussion later. Chris. Um anyway uh going back to your your personal journey were there specific texts that you could not run away from any longer that really got a hold of you like a lasso from heaven and and basically brought you to your knees and and surrender.

Yes this is true. Like for instance in my own personal testimony um a person a member of the church who is now with the lord actually nigel stone from england uh when i first started to attend the church uh that i eventually got baptized in and became a member of uh i was militating against these teachings that i heard about called calvinism i had was sitting in a bible study and hearing about predestination.

And it was the first time i had ever heard of it because i had been raised roman catholic never heard of it there. And in my early stages of searching for a church when i believe the lord began to call me and draw me i was visiting arminian churches really predominantly in fact maybe exclusively and not not purposely because i didn't know anything about the differences.

But i was going to pentecostal charismatic churches and the church of christ congregation that my brother was a member of and none of them were uh theologically reformed or or none of them adhered to the doctrines of grace.

So i'm hearing this predestination for the first time i thought it was like hinduism or something i was like what on earth are you talking about. And uh eventually this british brother nigel stone handed me a chapel library booklet george whitfield's letters to john leslie on election i have read that one and i read that.

And the george whitfield had every uh biblical defense against john leslie's attacks of calvinism and john leslie uh had every single argument that i could think of against calvinism and more so that george whitfield beautifully refuted and graciously refuted through the scriptures that at my initial reaction after reading it was this is true but this is horrible.

And then within time i began to realize this is true but this is glorious and wonderful and beautiful. And it made my redemption so much more of a personal thing between god and myself. Whereas instead of christ uh dying on the cross for a faceless nameless sea of humans he actually purchased my redemption specifically he had my name in mind and paid for my sins every one of them on the cross.

It just totally transformed my understanding of salvation. But if you could uh what were the uh circumstances. And perhaps bible verses that.

The lord used to drive you to your knees chris. But you mentioned one today in ephesians chapter one. In ephesians one where it talks about having been chosen in him before the foundation of salvation in romans chapter 8 verses 29 and 30 which drives you to a more.

It creates in you an insatiable hunger to research those things. Not just the area of god's foreknowledge and predestination um but the things in between there for instance coming to say what conversion and regeneration that he doesn't mention specifically but you know are the parts of the are parts of teaching of the holy scripture.

And so those verses among many others were those who drove me to the new testament even going back to because the just the doctrines of grace are not merely just new testament teaching. Each and every one of them person life for example put me apart from any that where i was in bible college or either seminary as an armenian was my refusal to cure in their salvation.

That that which christ had procured for us through his atoning work would somehow could somehow be lost of the doctrine of perseverance or what i like to call the preservation of the saint. My salvation for example was secure eternally secure.

Take me back amen. Well just to give a clarifier here about my own.

Testimony uh some people might be listening and say see it took uh george whitfield to teach chris arnes and calvinism. He never would have thought of that by reading the bible. Well the fact of the matter is number one.

I didn't know who george whitfield was. So you didn't know he was a calvinist. I didn't i didn't even didn't even know what those terms meant. Really i i didn't know. It wasn't as if george whitfield would impress me uh in any way.

Because i didn't know who he was. I didn't know who john wesley was uh. But it was the scriptures that george whitfield was quoting and exegeting to wesley. That was the scriptures that i was pointed to by george whitfield's writing.

Were the things that the lord used to transform my understanding. So i just wanted to make that clear. It wasn't the cleverness of george whitfield writing uh in some extra biblical fashion uh that that that uh led me to believe these things.

It was the scripture the the.

Scriptures themselves. Well i think one of the one most encouraging things to me after my own study and garden that did not learn that until later that there were others and that there were many others who that i did not know.

Probably one of the great experience has been reading charles adams spurgeon. Yes uh which just is and they will. They'll be glad to quote spurgeon. I wonder how many of them actually know what spurgeon believed.

We're here today. Many of them would not even allow him to preach in their churches.

Yeah well that's the irony is i know i know personally fundamentalist pastors who hate calvinism and they will have on their own websites their heroes of the faith charles spurgeon jonathan edwards and all these people that uh obviously were clearly believers in these doctrines that we're discussing and and cherishing and loving.

Uh we do have a listener in clinton township michigan jeff who says i spent 14 years at a calvary chapel fellowship a charismatic church that teaches through the bible in order. I guess he's speaking about expository.

Uh yeah i found through those years that god is fully sovereign and and in not only electing us but in directing our steps all through life as well i recognize that we are responsible for our actions too.

How do you give guys. How do you guys i'm sorry explain the two of sovereign control and human responsibility to a lay person. Okay. Pastor mitch i i really to be.

Quite honest i don't think we're called to explain them. I think very clearly. In fact just today i was reading uh something that spurgeon had written during his ministry that if if and i'll have to paraphrase because i don't have the quote right in front of me at this moment.

But he says if i find uh the doctrine of sovereign grace clearly taught in the scripture i have no problem accepting that. If i find clearly taught in the scripture the responsibility of men i find no reason to not believe that.

And i certainly do not see them as contradictory to one another. The reality is i don't think we're called. There's simply some things we're not going to be able to. Both of the human responsibility and the sovereignty of god are both taught i'm called.

To believe them. And of course uh there are people that usually wind up either being arminian or hyper calvinist when they try to remove tension that god for some reason purposely leaves in his own uh god-breathed word.