More Evangelical Reactions to Trump & The Democrats Resistance Plan

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We are live now on the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris. I hope you are all having a wonderful day

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I have been traveling for over a week, which is one of the reasons I haven't been able to do as many podcasts

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But here I am on a Saturday I know many of you are out doing things and you'll probably listen to this next week

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But I can already see people coming into the stream If you have any questions or comments or cries of outrage you can feel free to share those on Facebook YouTube or X where I will see the comment as we stream there's a lot we can talk about today and this episode has the potential to be either very long or about an hour and I'm gonna try to keep it towards that hour if I can

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We'll see how far we get because there's a lot that we could talk about. I want to talk about obviously post election stuff and There's so many different directions we can go.

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I'm gonna let some of the comments that come in Actually help me decide which direction would be prudent to go in but I do have some some things

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I want to play for you that will Steer this so I have a few reactions to the election that I want to talk to you about one that people online have been talking about regarding Russell Moore Curtis Chang and I think it's

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David French talking about The election and their reaction to it. They recorded it the day after so In fact,

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I think one of the patrons at patreon .com forward slash worldview conversation if you want to be a supporter of this podcast one of the patrons had asked me if there was a

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Reaction to from Russell Moore specifically to the election. I said, I don't think there is actually there's I haven't seen anything on X or Social -media no one sent anything to me.

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Well, this is I guess the reaction is this particular podcast that was recorded. So And then we're gonna talk a little bit about some

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Southern Baptist reactions to this I'm finding something very interesting in the Southern Baptist camp that you can take as encouraging or you can be cynical about and Think that this is more of a self -preservation strategy.

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I would love to be optimistic about this I really would I'm having trouble though because of the last few years and so I I sense a strategy going on here but we'll talk about it and Of course, it's regarding their reaction to the election

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I think there's a realization that hey when we try to get people to not support

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Donald Trump it didn't exactly work the way we thought and since I this is my unadulterated opinion here, but because the

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Southern Baptist leaders are primarily fairly unimpressive people who aren't your leader types their managerial elites who end up in these positions mainly because They have connections and relationships and stroke each other's egos

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Sorry, that's just from watching this over the course of years and going to a Southern Baptist seminary they are the they are not ones to enjoy when their opinions are disregarded and they will well,

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I would say better drill elites in general are like this if there's a super clear

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Pushback or Lack of acceptance of their views. They're not going to admit wrong.

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Generally. They're not going to put aside they're not gonna say I'm a failed leader and then go do something else or I'm wasting my time here they're going to regroup and figure out ways to push the needle and they'll do it in more subversive ways perhaps or they might you know change their messaging and Anyway, that's what we're gonna talk about a little bit.

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I see some of that kind of thing I think happening, but I'll let you decide it's up to you what you think about some of the clips.

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I'm gonna Play for you. We already got some comments. Good morning. John. Good morning stormy squad I voted for Trump, but he needs

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Christ. Absolutely says coffee and Calvinism Did you vote to punish David French?

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Well, I joked about it online because Who was it now someone had posted online?

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that No one votes to punish David French And then I think I was one of the first ones who's like who wrote

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I voted for to punish David French as obviously a joke But I'm absolutely on the other side of David French and just having listened to his podcast

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I listen to these things so you don't have to I think I've consumed way more material from leftists

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Like it's not even a comparison as opposed to What I would consider more Orthodox Christians political conservatives

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I've just imbibed much more leftism in my life because of education because of what

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I do on the podcast So listening to David French once again, I am reminded I am definitely on the opposite side of him in just about every single way.

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So Yes, I want his side to lose. There is no doubt about that Have you thanked on your uneducated

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Gen X or white women for pushing Trump's win Yeah, everyone's uh, um, everyone's out there trying to claim the demographic of that they're

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Normally that they belong to is responsible for the Trump win So if you're Latino, you're very proud that Latinos broke a little harder for Trump now still, you know

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I pointed this out. Look a lot of these demographics that they're claiming. Hey Trump made inroads.

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That's great. But They also voted more for Harris like they were a net negative on the

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Trump campaign So it's good to make inroads into those groups. But yeah, of course women In general,

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I think still single women. I know for sure voted against Trump and for Harris and It was

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I think I wrote on the other day on X that it you know the the base groups like the groups that political organizations pull for because they have to form political strategies to Target these different groups and you know form their messaging the groups that we can identify

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We're pro Trump. We're a net positive on Trump. So in other words without them there would not have been a

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Trump victory are Gen Xers are White people in general men and women are men in general are

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Working -class people so, you know the level of education matters in this so more college -educated the more they're likely to vote for Harris Middle -class socioeconomic brackets favored

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Trump So, I mean these are this is the breakdown families favored Trump if you were married that made a huge difference

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I've seen some of those charts of women who are married versus women who are single and it's like night and day women who are married voted for Trump women who are single voted for Harris and The vote for Harris was in large margins

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If you were an evangelical Christian, of course, you voted for Trump if you're Catholic I think you were a little more likely to vote for Trump not quite as much as an evangelical or a

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Protestant Christian if you were Jewish you like 80 % voted for Harris if you were a member of a historically black denomination

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Harris, you know, so like there's these very Ray I guess ranging from You know minor like Hispanic men

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I think were some they were right on the cusp there of like the 50 % but Hispanics overall or Latinos I think that's the word they're using now

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Latinos overall Voted for Harris. So there's groups that it's like kind of on the pivot there they're

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Becoming or they are more winnable Depending on the messaging that year and the conditions that year and then there's groups that are just there in the tank, right?

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And so evangelical Christians still 81 % for Trump. They're still in the tank for the Republicans They're still part of the

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Republican base and without them. You wouldn't have Donald Trump as the president. So Anyway Yeah, white dudes for Harris John Harris, that's right.

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I'm just gonna pretend that all those white dudes for Harris were just supporting me That's what was going on there the group's breaking for Trump Contributed to the popular vote lending credibility, but it's way too early to get excited that only 75 % of a group voted for Harris instead of 91 %

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Yeah, I mean they're still like look you look at these numbers and it's still like thank the Lord thank you so much that we avoided this iceberg and We can actually hopefully get some things done.

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I'm actually pretty optimistic about Round two here just because of all the things that Trump's been through.

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I think he's he's learned I would learn I think most people would learn from it who your friends and enemies are and I think he's got

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Some better people around him than he did before so I'm hopeful about it. But yeah, I mean it's still absurd that Someone like Harris or someone like Biden would even approach the possibility of winning the presidency and I Think it's more absurd that there's certain

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Christian quote -unquote leaders out there who seem to think that was the better option That's insane to me.

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But of course they would look at me and say that you know, I'm insane for thinking the way I think so Ray says evangelical

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Christian. Oh, I happen to be Hispanic male married with kids. My wife is white and voted for Trump Yeah, I mean look many such cases many such cases.

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There's obviously members of all kinds of groups that voted for Trump Can we expect

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Harris campaigning in 2025 well, that's what Jesse water says that she I don't know about 2025 but Approaching the next election.

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She's gonna try to run again, which I think is just rich I don't see that going anywhere, but who knows?

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All right, let's let's talk about Let's talk about the things that I've set out to talk about in this podcast

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I have a number of clips to play for you. And if I hadn't mentioned it already, we're gonna end with Rachel Maddow and A clip from her.

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I'm kind of torn on whether to play the whole thing for you I just don't want this podcast to be super long, but she lays out the strategy for the

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Democrats going forward and I think this is the strategy I think this is what they're going to do and It may not surprise you but I think it's interesting to hear from their perspective to get a little inside Scoop into okay.

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They've been thoroughly lashed on a national level and and surprisingly We haven't seen a lot of protests out there

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I think I'm we're still wondering whether there may be some closer to the inauguration, but What are they going to do?

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How are they gonna try to get back into power because they're obsessed with power That's and and you know, they should value power

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But they're like that's their life is about power many of these people. And so how are they going to get back into power?

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That's a big question. And so we need to understand their thinking to be able to counteract it

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So this is going to be I think it very important moving forward. So we'll end with that But before we get there, let's just start way off with what

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I think a lot of people want me to talk about Which is this? Curtis Chang As I understand it

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Russell Moore and David French. Those are the three on this particular podcast I listened to it as I was blowing some leaves outside So that I would

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I would know what clips were the best to play for you. What timestamps? Let's start with the first question.

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The first question here is Curtis basically saying How are you doing emotionally and I have it struck me just listening to these things how

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How effeminate these guys come across and I can't exactly quantify to you

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Everything that I'm sensing as I listen but it is

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I mean the introspection on how they feel and the therapy that they must go through in order to survive this cataclysmic event of a

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Trump victory is just Hard to listen to coming from guys.

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I it really sounds like it is more of a feminine driven podcast and I mean the stereotype there's a reason that stereotype is there of Left leftist men being more quote -unquote soy boys or just more sensitive and in tune with their their feelings

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We have feelings we we should be I think Crying at times and laughing at times and there's a time for everything under heaven.

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That's not what I'm talking about. There's just a Sensitivity that is palpable with these guys

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Where like I wouldn't want to be in a foxhole with them really especially Curtis And so that's the first question of this podcast.

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So let me Let's get to Russell Moore talks about how he's exhausted emotionally.

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I keep hearing that word. Jamar Tisby said the scene I'm just exhausted just exhausted. You don't hear conservatives talk like that as much when they meet political defeat but you know, even though we are tired right, but we're just so exhausted and then

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David French comes in and Let's see. Let's let's start here about eight minutes into the podcast

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All right. That's the intro. Let's go about eight minutes in here And we'll start playing it'd be fine

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We're gonna be fine But there's a lot of vulnerable people out there who are not going to be fine and so I just sort of thought of it in this two ways one is

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Defend the vulnerable. I mean, this is literally what I'm writing right now Defend the vulnerable and Speak the truth.

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Yeah, and so I feel like if we give in to despair that's gonna lead us to retreat into our own

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Sort of our so there's David French talking the talking everyone off the ledge like you can't despair

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You have to just pick yourself up we got to keep going he talks about Dehumanization and the

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Trump regime or administration is going to Symbolize we're actually not even saying it's symbolic like they're going to actually represent a

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Dehumanization regime of some kind there's gonna be these people I think immigrants primarily and Ukrainians is who he's talking about That you know, they've lost their humanity because Trump's in office and we just need to be about helping them

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So he talks about that and then Curtis chain has this rich moment here. I'm gonna fast -forward a little bit

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Let's just listen to this help people navigate this spiritually David's putting on his political hat. How do we defend the vulnerable?

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I'm sorry guys I'm still wallowing in my feelings right now. I was trying to catalog my feelings yesterday and I Forgive me, but I was

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I was like journaling about this and they all start with a You can't take the pastor out of me the alliterative sermonizing.

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This is this was my this was my emotional journey So I started in anxiety and the way

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I dealt with my anxiety at around 5 p .m Was I went into big avoidance mode? I spent probably about two hours just Digitizing my photos cleaning out my bookshelf

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Clearing out the garage. I mean this election I think was a disaster for our country, but it did wonders for my to -do list

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I was I Just plowed through it as a matter of woods then around when

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I saw what was happening I felt a surge of anger and Then I felt like a surge. I was like what's behind that anger?

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Like I wanted I was just wanting to blame people for this outcome and then I like I'm actually feeling like anguish

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I'm feeling sadness As David I think especially immigrants the people of Ukraine Yes, yes

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Planet in terms of our future generations. I was feeling anguish for my daughters who I know are growing up as young women who who

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I've been who interpreted this election result as a rejection of Women at some level and a giving a bequeathing of them a world of it feels like despairing to them

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So I was feeling with anguish of that and then I I ended last night We actually didn't end there, but I got to a place of just also

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I guess the best word I could put it was alienation I just felt like this my country like what does it mean?

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This is my country and and this is my and my so many of my fellow Christians Helped produce this result.

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So I was just the whole gamut and I think I'm still sorting through the combination of anxiety Okay, I can't do it anymore.

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I just can't do it. So this is the navel gazing type just Introspective it's weird because like you listen to a political talk show you listen to like this show and I will

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I will at times I mean we had a devastation last year when my wife's mother died.

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I mean, I will at times be Come to you with some emotions and I mean that's a normal human thing.

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But this is a Political analysis the election just happened.

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What does this mean for Christians going forward? How does this? affect the way that we should interact and be politically involved and be spiritually involved in our churches and all of that and It's just so much talking about how you're feeling about it and how you're going to navigate and how this affects you personally and how this

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Like like Donald Trump didn't do this to offend Curtis, right? Like he didn't do this as a way to Really just make

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David French feel bad, but Like there's a way they take it. That's so personal. It seems like they're just so wrapped up in their own emotions on this.

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It's I don't know what words to even use to describe it, but it's weird. It's just odd for guys, especially

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I just tell you Working in a lot of trades with guys. So being with guys a lot it isn't how guys generally talk to each other

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I'm just saying you can show your emotions, but there it is this line and it's just he's crossing it

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I'm just telling you it's it's odd to me So I'm curious if there's comments coming in like what in the world is going on here.

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Why such a Dramatic way of looking at this and it's such a personal way of looking at this

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Let's let's look at a few more clips. That's more of this isn't really maybe a substantive

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This is more just me raising my eyebrow and being like wow, these guys are Really taking themselves very seriously

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Let's talk about though this which is more analysis of where they're politically at David French at the 13 -minute marker says this

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He tries to he's the one that's rallying everyone. So here's what he said channel some of that anger into Building up those muscles and that sort of thickness of the skin that is necessary to engage in a very cruel age

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But without surrendering your compassion Remember the Micah 6 -8 formula like we need to lean in to act justly we even okay

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So we're entering this very cruel age and we got a we got a toughen up here, right?

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It's gonna be bad It's good. It like what do they think is gonna happen? What what's so? Devastating on the horizon that now is so much worse because Trump won as opposed to Harris for Christians like the only things

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I heard in the podcast were essentially Ukraine and And I think their analysis is totally off about Ukraine they just think

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Russia's gonna take over Ukraine and then they think that migrants are going to be rounded up and there's gonna be all these mistakes made and these people who are here legally are gonna be rounded up with them and They're gonna it's gonna be a nightmare.

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And so these are the things that are Just causing them so much turmoil and you think about a

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Harris presidency This is the thing that's weird to me like Harris wanted national abortion law that was equivalent to row at or went beyond it

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Perhaps Harris want was going to keep the open border policies that were wreaking havoc on actual

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American citizens Harris wanted To I mean continue the funding that we were giving to Ukraine, which is obviously bankrupting us further, but it's also

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Ensuring that this war continues that the death and carnage continue Trump wants to end it right just those things alone

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Would make a Harris administration far more cruel Harris wanted to ensure that there are civil quote -unquote civil rights, but you know, he's uber rights for transgender people in schools and in society would be

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Defended and that we would be crammed down our throats. Essentially I mean these are cruelties and it just strikes me as odd that they think that the

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Trump presidency represents cruelty not the Harris presidency It's such a warped moral vision that they have

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But he wants to rally that anger, you know channel that anger into some productive action here because we're gonna need this grit it's

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Too like we've had to have grit for how many years I mean the last four years certainly

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And just you know, I'm thinking maybe being in New York where things are things are worse

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Let's just say here the county that I'm in right now went deeper blue this election So, I mean, I'm just used to having to grow up with I mean it was red when

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I was growing up But you know, there was a lot more New York City influence and now of course, it's just insane in my opinion the amount of liberal influence in the area that I live but You know just even nationally.

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I don't care if you lived in a blue state or a red state You've endured a lot over the last four years just from an economic standpoint.

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You've endured a lot let alone social policies You go back before that. We had eight years of Obama Before you even get to another

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Republican president and I just everyone I've known who's a Christian who disagreed with this kind of thing

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They got up the next day. They put their pants on they went to work. They didn't complain they you know, they were upset about what happened, but life goes on and It's so much more difficult for some reason for people on the left it seems to me from my perspective to do that All right, so David French and these guys that we

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David French was a national review Obviously Russell Moore was at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Curtis. I don't know as much about I know he's a professor at Duke Divinity Which is pretty on the left.

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So he may have been always kind of on the left But yeah, those guys were in conservative institutions at one point

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Let's see, he talks about groaning I think it's David French maybe two or no, it's Russell Moore time out groaning and Trying to change what you can and not worrying about what you can't so they're just like rallying themselves most of this podcast and Then French gives them the encouragement

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This is actually gonna dovetail with what Rachel Maddow says we are worried and they think that okay. Wait a minute The courts are not gonna be a check on Trump at all that The you know, the

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Republicans especially if they keep the house and now that they've won the Senate They may just get rid of the filibuster and steamroll through there are a lot of negative things that can happen

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But there are also a lot of checks still in place and one of the things about the federal courts Interestingly enough

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This is the moment where the president has less legal discretion to implement his agenda than any time in recent

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American history Supreme Court precedents have really clipped away at a lot of the president's discretion and Also the courts have

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Actually rejected a lot of reach what I would call MAGA reach goals legal reach goals

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So a lot of the checks and balances legally not an immunity, you know, not an immunity

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But that's kind of moot now because Trump's gonna win and he's gonna be able to order the Department of Justice to drop his case

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The case is against him But in a lot of ways a lot of the legal checks and balances are still robust They really are we have accountability in two years in two years you're gonna have another election and and we have seen giant shifts between say 2012 and 2014 or 2004 and 2006 or 92 and 90

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All right So I'm just gonna weigh in here David French is essentially saying that the Democrats Still have mechanisms by which they can oppose

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Trump and in two years. There's gonna be another election. So, you know, let's put our Efforts towards that and this is similar to what

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Rachel Maddow says to that. There's these restraints built into our system That can keep

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Trump from doing everything Trump wants to do They don't go into deep detail on what Trump's going to do except for like I said

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Ukraine and immigration but you know That's they're channeling it back into political engagement that Christians need to be political engaged this time opposing

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Trump And David French ironically just says this with a straight face waltz claiming he's a conservative some comments

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Three kino says what does he think about the cruel age of Biden Harris DOJ? Imprisoning Christians who peacefully pray outside abortion clinics and how about I'll add to this the

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January 6th Prisoners who are still in prison because of they happen to be in the

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Capitol that day that kind of thing. That's They're not even a thought there. That's political prisoners hiring more

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IRS agents to I Think harass some Americans. I mean Obama famously weaponized the

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IRS. I I'm not convinced that hasn't stopped but you know, these are the kinds of things that would ramp up in a

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Harris administration and Trump's gonna put a kibosh on that and That's cruel. Those are cruel things, but you know expanding abortion, especially very cruel

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But they don't seem to think of it that way their priorities are so warped at this point

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Drew Smith says John Just as the government needs to take this four years to clean house and set this government up to never go back to the wokeness

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Don't you think evangelicals need to clean house, too? Yeah, absolutely It's just hard to find replacements to be honest.

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This is one of the issues Trump had a hard time the first time Hiring the people necessary to run the administration because there's just not a lot of people like us

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We tend to go towards careers and blue -collar fields fields Will be left alone if we're going to teach at a university we tend to gravitate towards hard math towards physics

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Engineering that's the key the conservatives want to avoid the hassle and raise their families and understandably

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So but because of that there is a big gap and in these areas where the left already

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Polices their ranks pretty stringently it becomes more and more difficult for conservatives to Or more unattractive for conservatives to take a course in life that will lead them into roles necessary for governing and this is something we it's a challenge we need to think through a lot more and there are people trying to work on this but It goes for the denominations as well.

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There's tremendous amount of pressure to keep the people out who aren't gonna play ball and Honestly elevate some very unimpressive people.

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That's what we've had for a long time You would need in the SBC You need some kind of a takeover where it's just overwhelmed if you're gonna take that denomination back

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At the annual convention with outsiders who haven't been at SBC meetings before and so far we haven't had that We haven't had enough of that.

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So that would be the requirement and then once they get there then how do you capitalize on this? How do you identify?

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Small -town pastors that weren't even on the radar to fill these committee positions There's I mean that kind of thing can theoretically happen, but it's not happened thus far so There's yeah,

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I won't go into the domination thing anymore. But there is an opportunity I think Going forward to lock in some wins politically and maybe on the denominational levels in some sectors in the next four years

27:45

Okay, let's keep going with this I don't have a few more clips I think I want to play This there's okay

27:51

Curtis says a few times this is Interesting. Let's see if I can go which one do

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I want to go to he says this at least twice I'll go to this one Curtis talks about groaning before God, but also groaning with God So he says this twice at least that God is groaning over this election

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And we just need to groan with him now if that's true if God is lamenting if God's up there groaning He just is so upset about Donald Trump winning well, we would be

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I as Christians I guess I suppose required to groan with him, right? So look how they elevate this to a

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Something that's incumbent on Christians they there's a moral wind that blows that they

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They want to use to harness more leftism more anti -trump anti -conservative true conservative type of Type of disposition.

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So here's Curtis James all fine versus total despair. Don't despair. Don't despair You have tools you have tools, but you should be concerned

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And there's a big difference between concern and despair Russell I want to ask you about helping people

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Stay out of that despair place You know, I think it's it can feel like There's easy ways to there's easy ways that actually feel trite and cliche ish

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Like you said and there's ways that actually take us deeper into that place of groaning with God And and a lot of this there it is.

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There it is that We need to be taken into that place of groaning with God because of a

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Trump victory. I Don't think they'd be having this conversation had Harris won. This wouldn't be look it would look like this at all so, you know,

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I don't I can't even see them saying God would be groaning over a

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Harris victory, but like that's a pretty bold thing to say that's like God the creator of the universe is groaning that Trump won the presidency and we just need to be as Christians taken into that we need to Feel that same thing.

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So like he's wanting people to feel this emotion that God's apparently feeling.

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I Just thought that was incredible thing to say And then let's see Last clip

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I want to play for you. Okay. This is actually before right before this David French Actually, I'm not should

30:13

I play this with time? We're already half an hour in Yeah, well, let's just go for it let's just play it let's see 32

30:22

Let's go there. All right, so this is Russell Moore giving his analysis of why

30:28

Trump won the election. Check this out exactly, right? That does set a Parameter I think

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I think that probably this applies more generally across American life we're in an age that Neil Postman warned us about a generation ago where everything has a sense of entertainment and and drama and I think that there's a sense in which

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Trump is able to speak to That need for meaning or purpose that comes in this kind of entertainment mediated way in a way that That that Harris could not when what she was selling is

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I want to be a boring responsible President who is who is what what we used to have

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And Biden was giving no National Sort of retort.

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Okay, so it's the blame game that starts, you know, Biden was had problems Harris had problems But the reason that people voted for Trump was they just wanted to be entertained they just really loved the fact that Trump had spicy press conferences and said outrageous things and they enjoy the controversy associated with it and he goes on and makes these points that You know people people like the drama and I actually think it's the opposite to be quite honest

31:58

People don't want the drama people would rather not think about those things But we live in a time when those kinds of things become necessary because the media screams bloody murder when you try to roll back or even oppose the

32:13

March forward of progressivism and Trump is doing that. So of course, they're gonna scream about it.

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And of course, there's gonna be drama Is there gonna be would there have been drama with Kamala Harris? Well, there would have been opposition from the heartland

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But I mean all here's the the admission really all the institutions are in lockstep with Kamala Harris the entertainment industry the education now the medical field

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No matter which sector you look at they're pretty much in step with Kamala Harris's agenda.

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So You're not gonna get his drama when people are in agreement Trump now is that one little point where there's a disagreement you still have the entertainment industry and the education industry and the

32:58

Medical establishment and all the rest on the opposite side of Donald Trump So there's going to be some grinding going on and Trump is pretty blunt.

33:08

He's he's a blunt New Yorker With a Scottish temperament, so yeah, of course, he's gonna when he disagrees he's gonna take it to him and that's what people want

33:18

It's not the spectacle of it. It's not we just really like watching the fireworks Of course We enjoy seeing for a change for once these people who think they know everything told that they don't

33:29

Because they don't and because they're wreaking havoc we like to see them lose because they're evil and because they're pushing wicked things and Because oftentimes they're also incompetent

33:42

It's not the spectacle that were it's not the free bread to the crowds that were there for that Are there people that are like that maybe but I don't think

33:51

I've ever met them, you know I'm I was rejoicing. I was looking at the media meltdown that night and I was entertained by it

33:56

That's not the reason I voted for Trump, right? I'm just enjoying the fact that the people who hate my way of life hate the

34:03

God I serve hate the country that my ancestors built are actually

34:10

Losing. It's good. It's good to know that's good to have that reassurance and I'm I thank God for it.

34:16

So That's much different than I just like controversy wherever it is. I'm just gonna go look at controversy, you know

34:23

Kamala Harris had plenty of entertainment value about here, but so did Biden by the way There's plenty of entertainment value there.

34:29

I mean she she Acted like she was drunk when I don't know if she was or wasn't but her laugh and the stupid things that she would say and Biden, of course with you know all the crazy nonsense he would say and questions about even like did he just have a

34:50

Potty accident, you know had an event that they had to shuffle him out for it I mean there was constant entertainment being generated by Biden and then

34:58

Harris every day So that obviously wasn't the factor but you know Russell Moore wants to make out like it's this

35:05

I think it's an encouraging thing to tell yourself like it's not really these fundamental issues so much as it is superficial things that we can somehow

35:13

Maybe correct And easy I'd Dineen says these men are giving lame excuses for how

35:20

America voted to them it can't be rational, right? That's exactly right. You know, if you thought like we did you would never vote the way that people actually voted so the whole thing implies

35:32

God isn't in control. They are showing their lack of understanding the sovereignty of God pathetic for religious actually towards the end

35:37

They do try to encourage themselves with God's in control They start quoting Lord of the Rings all over the place and I thought it was interesting because you could use the same quotes for like just reverse the roles and you know,

35:50

I've thought of like Gandalf speaking to Frodo and Moria and Talking about how we're only responsible for the times in which we live.

35:57

We can't choose them I love that scene and But of course, so I'm not thinking about it like Trump is the

36:03

Dark Lord Sauron, which I think is how they're looking at it, which is hysterical to me Okay Let's let's talk about a lot of comments coming in keep them coming

36:16

I'll try to get to them when I get a chance That was it for this particular podcast.

36:21

That's all I wanted to talk about So to wrap it all up into a bow these guys They are they're leftists.

36:29

They're subverting Evangelicalism, that's their role Megan Basham wrote about this in her book they are part of the after party a political curriculum that They even market as pastors.

36:41

You don't have to speak about politics and get in trouble with your congregation. We'll do that Let us do that. Just get our curriculum and use it at your church

36:48

It's funded by the Rockefeller Foundation, which also funds radical abortion stuff.

36:53

I mean, it's a left -wing organization And it's it was launched from the Trinity Forum also a very left -leaning organization, that's who these people are

37:02

That's who their friends are. That's where they're getting their finances from and That's their role. That's the role they play

37:08

It's more obvious now than ever so don't listen to him. Yeah, I mean Russell Moore is the editor -in -chief of Christianity Today David French is at the dispatch.

37:17

Okay they have some influence in a certain sector, but it's Let them be relevant to the left if they are going to have any relevance and let them be

37:27

Irrelevant to those of us who are actually trying to maintain a traditional American and Christian way of life here

37:34

I'll say this in closing on on that podcast One of the things that struck me especially towards the end of the podcast is how much they think?

37:43

that the kingdom of God equals a Guess Democrat policies equals the

37:50

Democrats being in charge What's good for the church in their minds is what they?

37:56

will support they are against any kind of You know, what's good for the nation?

38:03

What's good for the country? What's good for America these kinds of things? They don't like they don't like the nationalism talk they they want

38:12

What they think is good for this universal body the church and they've used that to then, you know impose like like so the state becomes pluralistic the state becomes universal the state carries these qualities that the universal church has in their scheme and So then the government becomes in charge of ensuring that universal

38:35

Society a pluralistic society remains in the United States and Trump is a threat to that That's really I think the bottom line with these guys so That's who they are now

38:44

Southern Baptist stuff. I just want to briefly show you two things This isn't gonna take that long.

38:49

But the first one is from this we react to 2020 This is from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary where I went.

38:58

I actually I don't know Dan Darling I knew Nathan Finn somewhat when I was there and You know

39:03

Nathan Finn was someone I don't know if Dan Darling Like sign this stuff but Nathan Finn was someone who signed the

39:10

Charlottesville Declaration in 2017 when I first got there to Southeastern He also signed the open letter to President Trump from American evangelical or other

39:19

American religious leaders we need to speak and If you read both of those things that Nathan Finn signed both of them,

39:26

I think were originated at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary They're pretty much Like like the first one is like, you know, hey

39:35

Trump like you need us to really move away from racism extremism xenophobia anti -semitism white supremacy all these things that are

39:43

Supposedly in your cabinet. These things are in your cabinet and you need to denounce these things.

39:48

We're demanding this of you and I think if I'm not mistaken Bruce Ashford actually was the one who

39:54

Crafted that statement and he was asked about it by a reporter and he couldn't name I think I think he talked about like three people in the administration who are all right

40:02

He couldn't even name who they were if I'm thinking of the same statement, but you know, if you read it you can go online

40:08

You'd have to go to unifying leadership org and use the way back machine to pull it up But you can read what they wrote and yeah

40:13

They're signaling kind of like they're they're they're tying Trump to the these nefarious elements

40:20

That's what they're doing and then they're just all you know Upset about it and this is these are the same people who for eight years couldn't do anything similar for Obama Not once did they make any kind of statement like this, but you know, they do it for Trump same thing with the

40:34

Charlottesville Declaration You know they They say things like Let's see.

40:42

Yeah, they quote Martin Luther King jr. Now is the time to remind the nation they say in ourselves of the personal and social power of the gospel and White supremacy will be cast out and dismantled

40:52

God willing by prayer and fasting so they're all up in arms about the Charlottesville thing and They just can't believe that this happened and we just need to separate ourselves and people would dare to be at an event

41:04

I mean I have the book on the shelf Here it is For anyone is curious about that event.

41:10

It's been so misconstrued Charlottesville untold go get this book by Ann Wilson Smith.

41:16

She was there and You'll find these guys are just lying to you about what actually happened that day And I interviewed

41:22

Ann for this podcast. But anyways, they had this whole they bought the whole media narrative about it, right? Nathan been signed this stuff.

41:29

That's that's who I remember. I haven't thought about him for years But that's who I remember from the Southeastern days.

41:34

I was like, yeah, I'll be like those guys were all like this They were all signaling against Trump and I knew it

41:40

I knew that's what they were doing because for eight years of Obama, they couldn't manage to hardly say a thing I think

41:45

Danny Akin signed the Manhattan Declaration was as close as they got over eight years anyway, three statements signaling or tying

41:55

Trump to These nefarious elements in one semester in 2017 when I was at SC BTS So I was kind of like thinking okay, like you know, these guys this is an

42:04

SC BTS podcast Like they're they have a problem on their hands people didn't follow their lead in Evangelical Christianity in the

42:11

Southern Baptist Convention people didn't follow them They have signaled they've made their intentions.

42:19

No, they've signaled Where they're coming from they've made that known are they going to are they shifting?

42:27

Are they gonna reveal that that's who they are. Are they going to like how do they handle this? Looking back and realizing that hey, they no one followed us.

42:36

I mean remember Dan Darling I've been like whole podcast with Dan Darling on places like CNN Just pushing the

42:42

VAX on Christians and so forth and here they are and You know, so what do they have to say?

42:48

So I thought this was significant. Let's go to 14 About 14 minutes into the podcast.

42:55

They talk about sports which is so so Southern Baptist to me like on a pool on a podcast about Christ and I I guess sports is part of culture, but it's

43:06

It's like yeah, I'm not gonna go there Anyway, they they they spend the first few minutes on that and then they finally get to the political and cultural cultural stuff

43:15

And this is what Nathan Finn is saying Obama one. Yeah, Obama's people saying it's a permanent coalition

43:21

And then you know, then he gets wiped up in the midterms and then Trump wins So, you know

43:27

American people and that's Benjamin Quinn the voice you're hearing another professor at Southeast He's about to ask Nathan Finn a question are as I told my class yesterday

43:35

They're fickle in a good way America will will self -correct or correct or reject what you know?

43:41

So, you know, I think we have to be flexible with our predictions and prognostications, you know 100 % and Demographics is not destiny, right?

43:52

And and it's so easy to assume that demographic changes Automatically benefit one side or the other and the

44:00

Democratic Party in particular has been doing that for a generation But demographics aren't destiny people can change their minds people can be persuaded that that new values ought to be weighted different than old values and every election has to be treated as a fresh take on an ongoing conversation and only only ideologues sit around and think that the future is assured because everybody is

44:34

Part of this demographic group or that demographic group. Okay. All right, let's stop there This is such a bad take it by opinion.

44:41

So you I already did a podcast going over the numbers with you Liberals tend to want to see things in terms of individuals really atomistic individuals who can switch out what they think at any given moment and You know, so things like your

45:04

Even your culture your religion your ethnicity like these don't matter. These are

45:10

Individuals are gonna do What they reason to be the best in in their their own best interests or what's in keeping with the values that they share?

45:19

But these things are very You know They can change.

45:24

They're very fluid. So That's obviously not true

45:29

It is true that there is Flexibility within groups. There are people who will abandon and change there are shifts that happen politically

45:38

They're like union households are now starting to veer towards Trump. There's shifts like that that do happen in Politics, there's no doubt about that but that being said absolutely demographics in the groups that you belong to matter a great deal when it comes to politics and We saw that again this election people are really excited that Trump made some inroads

46:04

The I guess Hispanic men might have been the biggest like in road you can say that he made in a minority group to where they're

46:12

He's kind of got them on the line of like maybe 50 % could go for a Republican So yeah,

46:19

I mean you can see shifts like that But these like if you look at the big picture, these are all pretty minor I mean, there are solid demographics that are still pretty actually all demographics are pretty much unchanged

46:30

Florida maybe being the the outlier Someone said Texas like 55 % of the

46:36

Hispanics voted for Trump or Latinos Florida Trump was able to get and I if you get the generational breakdown

46:43

I know it changes like what specific Latino group you're talking about like Cubans go for Trump pretty overwhelmingly

46:50

But yeah, I mean there's some shifts that happen but this isn't due to the fact that we're all like individuals who can just We think clearly and therefore we can rationally

47:02

Apprehend the the right solution there. There's some of that that exists. There are people who will buck their group.

47:08

There are people who will Think through things and go with what they they know to be true But in general when it comes to politics in a democratic society if you see a shift

47:19

It's going to most likely be a shift in a group So like in Florida you have a group of people

47:26

Miami -dade County went for Trump in ways it never has you have a group shift happening and The Democrats aren't offering things that help that community.

47:36

So and Trump was able to Take a vulnerability and use it But overall the same demographic groups that go for Democrats still went for Democrats The same demographic groups that went for Republicans still went for Republicans the big difference if there's any is

47:52

Trump was really able to turn out his base and Kamala Harris wasn't you four more years of immigration levels the way that we've had that may not have been possible and It it matters where you live.

48:05

It matters where your family has lived for generations It matters the conditions that have shaped you

48:12

It doesn't mean that's not standpoint theory, by the way, that doesn't mean that you're locked into some kind of a viewpoint that you can never escape because truth is somehow

48:23

Like subjective and there's a truth for your group and true like that's what the left pushes. That's not true at all That's that's absolutely evil and wrong and there is objective truth out there people can be convinced people can be argued but people do have habits and those habits do have force and demographics is a huge part of political

48:44

Maneuvering. I mean, this is why Democrats target different groups differently

48:49

This is why Kamala Harris has to speak with different accents in front of different groups. The Democrats have done that for years

48:55

They say different things too. They're very secular in front of an LGBT group. They're very religious in front of a black church

49:01

They they have to do these kinds of things because they're very different groups and they're trying to string together a coalition absolutely demographics is destiny and that's not a

49:12

Statement about like a firm like destiny in the sense of like, you know, this is

49:19

This can't change at all. Like there's no movement in it it's you know somehow

49:27

You know free will is gone completely like no no one makes any choices because it's all determined in this

49:33

Deterministic that's not what that phrase means that phrase just means hey You have people from another country come they tend to share they keep the values that they had in their foreign land

49:44

Especially when they're all together and they don't have the pressure to assimilate. It's all that means and it's absolutely true

49:49

So why do I point this out when this is such a minor point? Maybe you think I point this out because the

49:55

Southern Baptists have been on this Trajectory for two decades at least of trying to diversify their denomination

50:01

They think that will save their denomination go back and read the Great Commission resurgence book Al Mohler makes this point basically, we're gonna we're gonna cease to exist if it's just a bunch of old white males

50:11

So we need to attract diverse people and that's what Southeastern has been doing with their Kingdom Center for Kingdom diversity that's what all the

50:21

Entities within the Southern Baptist Convention have been trying to do and they're not the only denomination trying to do this so They have to try to make points.

50:28

I think like this where it's like, you know Hey what we're doing in refugee resettlement and pushing years ago for the

50:35

DREAM Act which professors at that institution did which the president of the Southern Baptist Convention Clint Presley did they have to Somehow justify that what they did didn't hurt

50:46

Trump. Why this is what I think I think because They are realized that the people in their denominations just on in the pew level don't like it

50:57

They're not going for it and they're still voting for Trump they may not even show up at the conventions in large numbers, but on the ground they still vote for Trump and They have to Navigate this somehow they've been pushing all this diversity stuff.

51:12

They've been the ones vilifying Trump because he didn't let in Muslim refugees, that's the way they framed it at least, you know

51:21

Refugees from countries with terrorists that we couldn't bet was really what it was But they they've been doing this thing for years of trying to push.

51:30

This is a Christian thing to have practically unlimited refugee resettlement to have

51:36

Borders that are practically open while saying that we need we do need a border But we have to all welcome the immigrant and the stranger and Donald Trump's a big meanie that they've been doing this for years

51:45

And so now they're they're in a pickle to be quite frank and they have to I think reinvent themselves somewhat

51:52

I think that's partially what's going on here in my opinion in my humble opinion I think now I'm not I don't want to read all that into this one little statement, but There's there's a number of things that caused me to think that There's another clip.

52:04

I wanted to play Okay, so let's let's go to this. This is kind of further confirmation of what

52:09

I think I just said I think this is again Nathan Finn to reach beyond their comfort zones

52:15

Whenever it comes to the types of church members who are there and to look for ways To build bridges to the community even people who are from vastly different socio -economic situations

52:26

I know my church, which is a very affluent church It's a burden that our pastors have right now

52:32

It's it's not always been a part of our churches culture but it has been at times and and we're in a season now where we're really committed to this and how do we

52:41

Leverage the resources that the Lord has blessed us with to reach the people who are within walking distance of our church building

52:49

But just have a vastly different life than 85 % of our church members and we're trying

52:57

Yeah, this is interesting to me. Okay. This is what was drummed into my head So aggressively when

53:02

I was at Southeastern, but it not in in these terms quite so Diversifying your church was a huge thing.

53:09

You needed to diversify your church. You needed to make sure that it was diverse in the terms of age, but mostly in diverse in terms of Race and And of course,

53:20

I pointed out many times that the people who usually said that went to the whitest churches live in the whitest neighborhoods etc, but that's what they said, right and They know that that's been pretty rejected among the people.

53:32

I think in the Southern Baptist Convention that that's now Associated with wokeness because the diversity push was not a hey let's everyone who loves

53:41

Jesus and wants to hear the gospel wants to hear the word preached come on and it was more of a Let's tailor our message to appeal to Diverse audiences who are on the left.

53:50

That's what it was and there was DEI stuff and all of that so now like you hear

53:56

Nathan Finn saying something very similar here, but he's Scaling back like he's not saying the racial stuff

54:02

So first he says Democrat demographics isn't destiny and then he chalks up the differences in the election to class differences not so much race differences which if you look at any of the analysis in the exit polls, you still see these huge margins that are

54:18

You know black people tended to vote for Harris white people tend to vote for Trump you all that stuff still there

54:23

But yeah You could always take those numbers and you can cut the pie in so many different ways

54:28

You can show that it's hey married couples tend to vote for Trump if you're single and especially a single woman You don't there's all these other ways

54:34

Obviously we talked about you can cut this up and you can analyze this one of the ways has always been

54:39

Socio -economic but You know, maybe it's a little more stark now because Trump is taking these some of these

54:45

Union families are going for Trump So anyway, he's he's making the same diversity push with we got to have our churches open to people of these different Socio -economic backgrounds, but what has he just gotten done saying?

54:58

He's just got done saying that that's the dividing line That's the political dividing line and that we can't

55:04

We have to resist the sorting with this assorting is happening People are moving to different areas to be with people like them

55:10

Churches must resist this sorting and do what make sure that they are reaching the people of all these different backgrounds

55:18

Let me interpret that not just different Socio -economic backgrounds that is in the context of these are different political views

55:24

It's still the same push that we need to open ourselves up to people on the left people on the right

55:30

They can both be comfortable at our churches. You don't want to alienate either one group. It used to be this was cloaked in terms of racial stuff now, it's cloaked in terms of Socio -economic, but it's the same play.

55:44

I think that's happening here So I thought this was fascinating to listen to because I I don't see on Like practically speaking.

55:53

I don't see an actual difference in The approach but I do see a shift in the language

56:00

That's being used to try to market this and it's a it's a shrewd shift Right, if you're trying to reach people who are doubt turned off to your

56:08

DEI message This is another way to kind of it's another road to get to the same destination in my humble opinion.

56:14

Alright, so These guys they're not that influential in my opinion You probably don't know who you might know who

56:20

Daniel Darling is, but I'm telling you for the SPC though These are conversations that are

56:25

Interesting to listen to because the SPC is a big denomination It's the largest Protestant nomination and these guys are like they're insiders and you're they're letting you listen as a fly on the wall to What they're saying even though I probably just gave them way more numbers than they would have ever had on the podcast

56:42

So now I don't know should I have done that? I always am on the fence about that kind of thing but So that that was one.

56:49

This is the other one This is another Southern Baptist podcast and I think Dean and Sarah might end up being one of the next

56:54

SPC presidents Keep an eye on him He's a pastor. He has a fairly large church now

57:00

Dean and Sarah. I'm gonna say this before I start playing back to William Wilberforce I'm gonna play this before I start playing this clip.

57:07

All right, or say this before I play this clip Dean and Sarah has been on the opposite side of stuff over the years like, you know, for example

57:17

He tweeted out and I think he's deleted his tweet since then but if you went back to February 14th 2020

57:23

He tweeted out the new Baptist Network thing and he's talking about conservative Baptist Network in the SPC then this new

57:30

Baptist Network thing look how cavalier Lee he talks about it is about love of Trump and Being butthurt about Paige Patterson.

57:37

That's a direct quote here. Don't be fooled inerrancy and sufficiency of Scripture Then do video of right -wing political talk that has nothing to do with Scripture and an unbeliever could agree with Then he says our

57:51

Baptist our network of churches is great They align with the conservatism of the Baptist faith at message 2000 dividing over lesser tier issues and it's ridiculous and then

58:00

Beth Moore Oh, you're going there. Are you I'm going with you. It's a this is this is where he's coming from guys

58:06

This is Dean and Sarah Dean and Sarah when the enemies within the church movie came out I think it was enemies within the church and then yeah, and then

58:14

Adam Greenway president of Southwestern Baptist theological seminary Signaled hard against it Dean and Sarah joined in that like Dean and Sarah was so appreciative of Adam Greenway in that moment and stuff

58:25

This is who he is. He has tried to squash conservative efforts in the SPC He has been quiet about from what

58:32

I've seen at least any kind of the leftward drift that's actually happening He He is not on the same political side and yet listen to him in this clip, this is interesting to me

58:43

He doesn't take the same approach that you just heard from Nate Nathan Finn This is what he says vehicle that the

58:49

God in his grace has the God in his grace has allowed participation in For the flourishing and betterment of our neighbors for his glory and for the love of God most importantly in love of our neighbor

58:59

I mean go back to William Wilberforce It was not heart change that he was trying to seek out

59:06

He was trying to legislate morality through as a believer in Parliament to end the slave trade

59:11

Go to our own nation go back to Jim Crow and segregation It was through politics that eventually that changed go back to the institution of slavery

59:19

How did we ultimately end Nazi Germany to the declaration of war which came about through?

59:26

Politics and so I think we've made politics into a bad word When really it's always been the meats that has been used by people

59:34

Christian and non -christian and that common grace to carry out the betterment of our neighbors

59:41

Okay, this is not at all what he said just a few years ago he was down on conservative

59:46

Baptist Network because it's a political organization and now all of a sudden

59:52

No politics is the way that we get things done Now the Tim Keller cut and he even says at one point

59:58

He's like we're not third way in the podcast and he signals He doesn't say that he

01:00:04

I don't even know if like his preference for Trump comes out But it's pretty obvious that he's he's signaling against Harris in this podcast and this is a

01:00:13

Baptist podcast I thought you know, we weren't supposed to be so political but he's he's going there Like he's political now all of a sudden signaling, right?

01:00:20

I think a shift has happened under their feet and they know it They know that they are somewhat discredited.

01:00:26

They know that people aren't listening to them as much they know that they didn't listen to him to them on Trump and I think

01:00:32

Dean and Sarah's, you know, Probably as somewhat of a shrewd operator and he I like I said I think he's one of the ones to watch as far as names that will be picked for future

01:00:42

SPC presidents and Now he is Sounding like if you listen to the whole podcast

01:00:47

He sounds like he if you if you want to hear it, you'll you'll find it

01:00:52

Hey, he's he's about political power. Like he thinks Christian should be in political power He's signaling against, you know, the

01:00:59

Tim Keller third way stuff Now, of course his examples are like, you know, it's it's like it's what did he say slavery

01:01:05

Jim Crow Nazi Germany? like it's it's such a like a such a boomer con like example list for like why we should do politics, but But okay, like, you know good.

01:01:17

I mean, he's at least Thinking that Christians should be involved politically and that this is somehow a good thing and they should be against abortion

01:01:23

He was really heavy on that I'm telling you. This is not this the guy.

01:01:28

I mean, I'm I was used to seeing his his ex account interaction was like Signaling against like everything

01:01:35

I was trying to do in the first few years Everything that conservative Baptist Network was trying to do everything

01:01:42

William Wolfe's trying to do now Like he was on the other side of all of that With the the resolution 9 crowd with the the the people who are going left in the

01:01:52

SBC and now you listen to him And he sounds different. I think you're gonna hear a lot more of that coming from Southern Baptists JD Greer We just saw that JD Greer Signaled against Trump.

01:02:02

I don't know how many times Like at least four or five times. He would tie Trump to some kind of nefarious view or he would signal that Exclusively against Trump and his side is how terrible they were and now he's optimistic about a

01:02:19

Trump victory somehow There is a shift and these guys. Yeah, like they are talking to each other.

01:02:26

They're in their same They're in their own chat groups there all of that stuff. They are strategizing for what to do next

01:02:31

I see no indication from hardly anyone Willie Rice is like the the one exception from guys in the

01:02:38

SBC who are in these at these levels for repenting or even just Admitting that they were wrong in the past for their views.

01:02:47

It's just a shift. That's all it is It's a political shift that's happening. And I think that you can expect more of this.

01:02:55

They're gonna be super careful on the DEI stuff They're still they're gonna do like what the strategy just saw from Nathan Finn It's gonna be like same, you know, so like same kind of destination, but we're gonna try to find different routes to get there they have to be so careful and They they they have a problem they know since Megan Basham's book they'd have a problem

01:03:15

People think of them now in terms of being on the left our efforts on this podcast have worked

01:03:21

People now see them that way and they have to somehow Manage their image. And so that's what

01:03:27

I see happening out there. I know I might be sounding cynical, but That's how I think. All right Last but not least we're gonna talk about this

01:03:34

Rachel Maddow clip We're over an hour in so it is gonna be a little bit longer of a podcast. I'll take some questions first Scott says they're all snakes.

01:03:46

He was he went to Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. He actually worked there

01:03:54

Let's see who else okay, so Someone asked about Owen Strand, what do we do with Owen Strand?

01:04:02

I mean, I don't know. I don't really listen to him What to say like he's his takes are just so bad in my opinion most of the time

01:04:10

There's just no reason to listen to him. It's my view. I'm not saying he never has a good take but He's been so bad.

01:04:19

So woefully wrong lately that It's just I just can't take him seriously anymore

01:04:24

That's a sad thing because I mean I years ago I remember I did email him and I was really thankful that he was starting to signal against the woke stuff and I just said

01:04:32

I appreciate it and to see where he's gone since then and you know making out like Christian nationalists and like people who are like one click to the right of him are

01:04:43

Somehow kinists and they're involved in heresy and this kind of thing. It's just Okay, Owen All right, what else what other quite

01:04:52

I'm looking for question marks specifically Would it be a good idea that the 85 % bless the 15 % struggling rather than solely focusing on who isn't there

01:05:05

I'm not sure what that's in reference to Get if you're talking about like the David French stuff

01:05:11

Yeah, yeah, like they they should open their own pockets and help these struggling people. Maybe they plan to I don't know Are these how are these tariffs going to work?

01:05:21

Oh, man, that is a question We could do a podcast on it But it would take a long time and it's a little beyond me to be quite honest with you

01:05:29

I did have in college macro and micro economics, but you know generally speaking my the position

01:05:37

I have on tariffs are Is more of a national security position? But more than it is an economic position

01:05:43

I think that we should not be dependent on other countries for certain raw resources that we would need to wage war

01:05:50

So even if it hurt us economically like it's a lot worse to lose a war.

01:05:55

So like we should be economically I think Like we should be self -sufficient as much as possible

01:06:02

So tariffs are a tool you can use to dissuade companies from investing in foreign

01:06:08

Foreign companies to supply what we could supply in the United States if it's certain goods that we need for military

01:06:16

There are other things I've considered. I've had a shift in my own thinking because in 2016 I was pretty

01:06:21

I Was not positive we'll say about the Trump tariffs Because I was still leaning

01:06:29

Especially economically towards a libertarian way of thinking on some of that Very free market and so forth and I'm still a free market guy but I have started to think that There may be some merit to tariffs and specifically when

01:06:47

I see factories that go overseas and the way that they're able to compete is by essentially like really really poor working conditions and unsafe conditions with their workers and You know, they're able to undercut us because of those kinds of things

01:07:05

I don't want to really incentivize that kind of thing. I would prefer that we have American workers that are producing our cars and And other certain goods that we've produced for a long time.

01:07:18

I think we have a better quality product I think I've had the realization that the market doesn't always

01:07:26

Like there's a there's a certain wisdom to the what the market wants you have to take into consideration what the market wants for sure

01:07:32

But sometimes the market demands things that aren't always the best obviously like pornography is a good example of this, right?

01:07:39

That's a market that I think should be just squashed There's things that people want that aren't good for them and sometimes cheap stuff from China that breaks

01:07:48

Isn't like the best overall There's there's even pollution

01:07:54

I think considerations with the amount of waste that we have in plastics and so forth and Environmental factors and so Yeah obviously

01:08:03

I'm skimming over the surface and probably creating way more questions than I am answers here because I have a lot of questions about it but I do think that it's better to have more expensive products that are much higher quality at least when it comes to certain products and That's the way like my parents grew up.

01:08:20

That's the way especially their parents I I'm amazed at some of the like a farm equipment and stuff that still works from 50 years ago

01:08:30

When I feel like I have to keep buying rakes almost every fall season to rake my leaves, you know because it's just made poorly and So so could tariffs be a way to incentivize better quality products in America.

01:08:45

I'm more open to that than I used to be and That's all I'll say that it might be a good discussion for podcasts in the future perhaps

01:08:55

But yeah, I think there's certain trades that also I'll add this that have traditionally been able to supply families families have

01:09:06

Dads have been able to go out and work on a single income and their truckers are a good example of this

01:09:12

I think it Tucker Carlson and I remember Ben Shapiro had an exchange where Tucker I thought had the better of them on this where you know

01:09:18

Ben was kind of like whatever the free market says if we can automate the trucking business That's better. And if I could click a button,

01:09:23

I would do it and Tucker's like, yeah, but you how many divorces with this? Cause what's the social cost of this? We would have to ease into it.

01:09:30

We'd have to be prudent about it And so I've realized some of that too that Some of these jobs like you could get a cheaper product if you don't manufacture it here, but at what cost socially?

01:09:41

so like not everything is It's a math game like as far as you can't

01:09:47

You can't look at the economy and make that the only thing that drives your economic policies

01:09:53

Economic policies affect social policies and you want to a true conservative wants to conserve

01:09:59

The more than anything else I would say the the social Stability of a country without that you like what are you even fighting for?

01:10:08

What's the point, right? So there's a lot that could be said but yeah, I'm in my own evolution on this

01:10:15

I would say and I'm very much open to discussing some of these things on a case -by -case basis

01:10:21

But I don't like tariffs that favor one like part of the country over the other and that kind of thing All right, let's let's move on.

01:10:27

We got to move on. That was my little aside on terrorists Michael says that was in reference to that podcast where the liberal guy said this church is too wealthy.

01:10:37

Okay the They need to bring in others who aren't wealthy in this church. He said it was 85 % Okay. Yeah Yeah, so people need to open up there

01:10:44

They need we need to engage in some Charity, not just try to get the left to do social policies to take care of the poor.

01:10:50

Let's open our own pockets We can't realistically compete says spud Manufacturing with an endless pool of cheap labor tariffs help even the field by leveraging access to our market

01:11:00

Access to our market has been taken for granted Yeah That's that's some of the logic that I've heard.

01:11:06

I'm not sure if I can like I said, like I still have this free market tendency in me that I Don't like restrictions necessarily being placed on American consumers for what they can buy from other countries and that kind of thing, but There are circumstances where I think it does make sense in certain industries

01:11:26

Do you see Christian colleges and seminaries repenting or at least backing off the DEI woke agenda or they'll just keep going on that?

01:11:35

some of them will some of them won't and The can thing I'm concerned about more than anything is

01:11:40

I don't I don't think there's a big heart change I don't see it out there at all. It's more of an adjustment to survive in this new political environment and I I don't trust these guys.

01:11:52

I think that we need a new We need people in these these organizations to rise up and be new leaders.

01:12:01

That's my opinion All right, let's Let's shift here.

01:12:06

I want to talk about this. This is a big really important This might be the most important thing on the podcast today We're gonna talk about Rachel Maddow and what she says is the strategy going forward for Democrats Can citizen who does not want to ash can the

01:12:19

American system of government doesn't want a strongman Authoritarian system where the whole government is one guy and everything else just exists to serve him if that is not the kind of country

01:12:30

That you want Then yesterday's election means you have more to do for your country than you have ever done before Because now is when the rubber really hits the road, right?

01:12:41

We don't just flip a switch and the American system of government is gone. Democracy is gone.

01:12:46

It doesn't work like that. I mean Not to be boring here for a second, but just getting very real we now are just another one in the list of Countries that has decided to you know, hey, what the heck let's try the strongman thing

01:13:05

Let's let democracy go. Let's put in an all -powerful guy instead. See how it goes

01:13:11

There are many more countries in the world governed by that kind of a system than they're all Okay, so this is hysterical

01:13:18

Let's see here they show Kim jong -un they show

01:13:25

Qi and they show Putin So so Trump is with them that's what we have now we have the dictator of North Korea the dictator of the

01:13:33

United States Now if this is gonna contradict what she says later she says there's all these mechanisms we can use

01:13:40

But I want you to notice something. She she says that we've chosen against democracy

01:13:46

That's a very interesting thing. He won the popular vote to this time around so they can't use that So how exactly is this against democracy?

01:13:52

And this is the Achilles heel of democracy In a democracy theoretically the people who are under it can vote to end democracy if they wanted to right

01:14:02

That's not what happened here but that Theoretically could happen and what do you do at that point when the will of the people is they don't want a democracy anymore

01:14:12

It so you're this is like a catch -22 like you either honor democracy and end democracy or you honor democracy and you try to It restore or preserve democracy

01:14:27

So Rachel mad out I'm just saying given her assumption here, which is that Trump is a strong man who's against democracy

01:14:34

He still got voted in through a mechanism. That was democracy. So That's a really good argument against democracy

01:14:42

Rachel. I get that's you know, you're showing the weakness in it Apparently if it's democracy apparently falls into authoritarianism of some kind So these people even when the vote

01:14:55

Goes against them. They're still gonna claim that it's against democracy because it's really democracy for them is

01:15:03

Whatever they're in control of that's what's best for people. That's what people really want.

01:15:09

That's what They're and they are wedded to in some sense these Like for them expanding your choice in a free market of some kind or at least a market that is as free for vices as can be the only inhibitions in that freedom are taking from us to Fund that freedom for those who can't afford it basically, but that kind of a you know, my body my choice liberalism

01:15:38

They do hold that as sacred. You should be able to operate and do whatever you want. However sinful it is

01:15:44

And Trump is going to put the kibosh on that. That's what they're complaining about and that's what democracy is to them

01:15:49

So it's whatever system And so the mechanism to get there which is voting, you know, that's that's secondary to the arrangement

01:15:59

They want which is what I just described Anyone can come across the border anyone get an abortion.

01:16:05

This is all funded by the working -class people who? don't do those things as much but they will

01:16:11

They will enable others to express themselves to their the fullest extent that they want

01:16:18

So they don't look at it like families being the building block like a social order coming from a divine source.

01:16:23

This is all just Whatever individuals want to do And that's how

01:16:28

Trump is a threat to democracy in their mind Are governed by ours. We are the only 248 year old multiracial pluralistic democracy in the world.

01:16:39

That's not true Maybe 248 but What do you do with Great Britain?

01:16:45

What do you do with a lot of European countries right now that have more than one group?

01:16:50

I mean, they're they're essentially becoming empires or you know countries at least that have more than one nation within them

01:16:58

United States isn't unique in this sense. And shall we keep it a Lot of our fellow

01:17:05

Americans say we shouldn't And I will point out the United States wasn't always like what she describes either it was it for the whole 248 years it was not like this now.

01:17:15

We know now we know for sure But a lot of Americans tens of millions of Americans say we should keep that system which means time to fight for it and yes,

01:17:27

Americans did fight for it by working on this election by trying to get the candidate elected who was both the

01:17:34

Democrat and the small D Democrat She didn't win the strongman candidate won instead

01:17:41

But now history doesn't end time doesn't stop Now we have the benefit of knowing

01:17:46

You know how this has gone in every other country that has been through a democracy to authoritarian transition

01:17:53

This is why they keep saying Trump is a dictator. Trump is Hitler. They think that history does follow these

01:18:03

Similar patterns and that the arc of history is she's gonna get there eventually, but the arc of history is going to be towards further democracy and greater levels of this kind of freedom and they think though that we're on this kind of like Alternative reality temporarily where Donald Trump is taking us down the dictator routes

01:18:22

And so the things that have happened in dictatorships are going to start happening here and they expect that to happen here now I don't know how you say this and You prevent

01:18:31

Riots from happening if you really think Trump is going to pull off What Stalin did they don't really usually reference

01:18:38

Stalin, but what Hitler did or this case? What Kim Jong -un is has done and his father

01:18:44

Kim Jong -il if you think that that's what Trump is then You're going to freak out and and you're going to have anxiety.

01:18:52

I don't know how you escape that It's obviously ridiculous, but that's how they a lot the hard left at least thinks

01:18:58

I think Curtis Chang is having a hard time with this. He thinks this kind of thing and sadly there are a lot of them

01:19:05

We have the benefit of seeing what's happened in those other countries though. And what we know is that the more ground the authoritarian

01:19:13

Takes the harder it is to ever get that ground back and So the first order of business is to stop them from taking any

01:19:21

Uncontested ground right from the outset when it comes to what our system of government is and what our democracy is, right?

01:19:28

We know from other countries experiences that quickly. I mean now in the next few weeks if not the next few days

01:19:34

They are going to start pushing to see how far the country is gonna let them go without pushback without protest and part of this is because it's just Psychologically advent.

01:19:47

Okay, I'm gonna skip ahead a little bit. She goes on about how we need to resist. That's most of this video

01:19:53

We need to resist. What ways can we do it? Let me skip ahead. I'm four minutes in here

01:19:59

That as of today American citizens who do want to hold on to democracy We know exactly what we're going to be spending the next days and weeks and likely years of our life working on and And the strategic first moves come into focus quickly when you think about what other countries

01:20:18

Have shown us about how hard it is to regain democratic ground once an authoritarian

01:20:23

They they show these guys again. They just keep linking Kim Jong Moon and she and Putin to Trump is hysterical area and leader has taken that ground

01:20:35

And the work has to be done now The work that has to be done now it has to happen in sort of every aspect every corner of our society the

01:20:46

US military Needs to give the American people Binding assurances that they will not deploy

01:20:53

US military force against the civilian population in this country They can give those assurances and now they should

01:21:01

The free press needs to give the people of this country Assurances that they will not become state

01:21:06

TV that they will stand and fight together They will put aside rivalries and petty professional differences

01:21:13

They will stand and fight together as the free press as the fourth estate as an institution

01:21:19

That is a pillar of our democracy as these guys on the other side inevitably start picking off individual journalists individual publishers

01:21:27

Individual news organizations to try ultimately to turn us all into some American accented version of RT if the demo, all right, so yeah

01:21:37

Russia today, so we're gonna Turn into state that this is like bonkers.

01:21:44

This is insane like Unrealistic to an extent that it's hard to even quantify but that's what she actually believes that's what her viewers actually believe like we could be on the precipice of the entire media being controlled by Donald Trump and the administration and forcing them to say what they want them to say and pushing their agenda and there's no

01:22:06

Push back. There's no freedom of the press anymore. We're they're just gonna take it away now, obviously, that's ridiculous

01:22:12

We know that that's not even a policy that's being considered But um, but imagine with me just for the sake of argument imagine that actually happened

01:22:20

Imagine Trump said your guys are gonna lie. No longer. I'm going to I don't know what he would even do

01:22:26

What mechanism he would use but you know you you cease to exist if that happened

01:22:33

What what would actually be the The effect of that You would have an authoritarian regime.

01:22:41

Let's say authoritarian administration that Takes away this freedom from a bunch of organizations that have

01:22:53

Leaned so far to one side that I would say they could all be considered state -run media

01:23:00

The last four years. That's what they were So like she's so this is my point like she's so afraid that Their freedom is gonna be taken away, but they've functioned as state -run media for four years

01:23:12

They've just done the bidding of the Democrat Party Fox News. These may be the only exception and I would say

01:23:18

They're even they aren't they're not conservative. They're just they try to be fair and balanced Some people think they're not cases there because they have people that are more on the right on Fox News There's no doubt about that.

01:23:28

They're reporting though tends to be I would say more moderate and they're just compared to all these guys.

01:23:35

They look super conservative because of that Look at even 2020 and how they called was it

01:23:40

Arizona? So first and they were I mean, they did not give Trump the time of day and Just like the other news organizations.

01:23:49

So, you know, that's your one little outlier Okay, so everything else is controlled by Leftists ideological leftists.

01:23:58

It's funded much of it by left -leaning organizations. There's they've been state -run media

01:24:05

Effectively, but she can't see that she can't see that that's how they've operated She's so afraid that they will

01:24:11

Cease to continue operating that way and if the shoe were put on the other foot, it would be the abridgment of this freedom

01:24:18

So Biden says according to Ray Let's see Biden Pentagon just gave the order before the election that troops use deadly force against u .s.

01:24:25

Civilians This is breaking news right now. Let me let me see.

01:24:30

Let me go to to When we go to a news website see what's going on I Don't see it on the front pages of stuff

01:24:42

Interesting. Okay Well, I guess Biden's a threat to democracy now according to Rachel battle doesn't think of she can't put the shoe on the other foot.

01:24:52

She can't be self -reflective None of these people seem to be able to do that Democratic Party takes the house

01:25:01

Expect article 1 of the Constitution to come under attack By which

01:25:06

I mean expect efforts to hollow out the power of Congress to make

01:25:11

Congress a just -for -show institution, right There's a reason actions of the

01:25:17

Russian Duma never make news, right Expect efforts to attack article 1 to make it a just -for -show

01:25:24

Institution that has had its real powers taken over by the executive by the dear leader We are gonna need a plan and some steel spine inserts among elected officials in Washington Okay, let's just stop there someone that made a good point here.

01:25:38

Matt Boris said Oh Rachel. Are you again censoring X? Yeah, where were all these people in 2020 when social media outlets?

01:25:45

were censoring the People who use their platforms on a number of issues.

01:25:51

It wasn't just the kovat stuff that this She's not for this stuff unless it's benefiting her side

01:25:58

To head that off. We're gonna need let's skip ahead. I can't do this. All right, let's go She talked about the Supreme Court.

01:26:04

She talks about let's see or Terrians need to crush that Because it's not about them

01:26:10

Strong men leaders have a tendency to become not just leaders of the government not just dictators but totalitarians

01:26:17

Because they can't have anything going on in the country that isn't about them or for them Okay, so it's more just rhetoric

01:26:24

Let me get to the end where it gets a little more tangible perceived enemies if they really are going to try to undermine the

01:26:31

American system of government which is what they've made this campaign about Then in the next days and weeks they are going to be testing to see what they can get away with without pushback

01:26:41

They are gonna do the things they can do easily and they will have to put off the things that turn out to be hard So what's gonna be hard for them

01:26:51

That's where the American people come in We do not only work for our country and for our democracy in elections

01:26:58

We work for our country and for our democracy against anyone anywhere anytime who seeks to do it harm

01:27:07

And so there's there's a lot to do Time doesn't stop history doesn't stop. We have stuff to do millions of Americans woke up today to the

01:27:16

Realization that although you worked as hard as you could to try to bring about the election outcome you wanted You did not get the election outcome you wanted

01:27:23

And so now what that means is that there is a whole new raft of stuff to do

01:27:30

Hope you are feeling scrappy who hope you are tapping into your inner pirate energy

01:27:36

Because it is one thing to be a defender of the realm It is another thing to be in opposition and opposition can be a lot of things.

01:27:43

It can be dangerous Can also be fun It would have been nice to win the election didn't okay

01:27:53

Time to save the country. Okay, so This is the left doing what the left likes to do the left feels very comfortable in The position of being the underdog in their minds.

01:28:07

They see themselves like that Even when they're in power, they have all these forces set up lined up against them.

01:28:13

They're never in control They're always fighting these greater forces Obama had two terms and he end of his second term

01:28:19

He was still saying these big business forces are keeping him from doing what he wants to do. That's How the left operates the right has traditionally well

01:28:28

It's not even true to the last 50 years. The right has been in this position of like hey, we're the normal we're

01:28:36

And up until recently thinking they even had corporate and big business maybe until 2020 But we're the ones that are in control even when they're not but this is way more

01:28:45

I would say fundamental to the left's identity where the The resistance, you know, we are the ones against the man and that's what they love

01:28:56

And so what you're gonna find is the left Obviously, they're gonna resist but they're going to gum up the gears everywhere.

01:29:02

They can I Think you'll I'm actually wondering what's gonna happen now with like protests and riots and that kind of stuff

01:29:08

I'm assuming we're gonna see some of that but I didn't play the clip but Rachel Maddow wants people to get involved in voluntary organizations

01:29:15

She wants basically people to dedicate their lives to politics for the next four years

01:29:20

To getting as much power as they can in their local levels so that they can get in these swing states overturn or like fix the problems that they had and get back in the driver's seat and This is one of the things

01:29:34

Republicans can't let happen Conservatives can't let happen Christians cannot let happen We have to be involved in our communities ourselves and where we see this happening

01:29:44

We have to stop it ourselves. We're gonna have to be involved in voluntary organizations We're gonna have to be involved on a local level in government we're gonna have to meet them when they come out to to fight in these ways and I think the actual truth of the matter is

01:29:58

Trump is the resistance and you are part of the resistance You are the ones that are lined up against every other institution in society

01:30:09

That's just a reality Everything is a lined up against you you happen to have this one win and it creates an opportunity

01:30:17

But you have to build on it. That's the only way forward the next four years are this is the beginning this can't be the end you have to lock in the gains push hard aggressively and It's not the time to just go on vacation at this point.

01:30:31

The left is they don't go on vacation They're gonna turn it up and they like being in this position They like being they like being allowed to burn stuff too, so we'll see how that goes

01:30:41

So yeah, just just food for thought think about ways you can be involved. That's what they're gonna do.

01:30:47

All right questions and then we'll end Let's see, what is your inner pirate spirit?

01:30:54

Anyway, I don't know. I really don't know It's I mean

01:31:01

They view themselves as the resistance they're they're Breaking the rules.

01:31:06

They like to be against the rules You know, they've been They've had the power everything that they own right now has

01:31:15

Should give them the sense of like we control stuff, but they still they don't It's not their nature.

01:31:21

They don't like that because like the real rebel right now is the someone who like stays with their spouse and raises kids and The suburbs or the you know rural areas or whatever like that's the real resistance

01:31:34

That's what they and that's what they hate. So They want to view themselves as a resistance once again

01:31:43

Someone break it to her. We're not a democracy. We're a constitutional Republic. That's true We do have in political science terms we do have a democratic form of government in the sense that we have people in the government who or rather people in the population who make

01:31:58

Decisions that are governmental. So But yes, we are a constitutional Republic.

01:32:03

That is true We're not a pure democracy where every decision is put up to a majority vote. We have representatives that make decisions for us

01:32:12

All right, I think I'm gonna probably end it there before I end it though Oh, did

01:32:18

I not pull it up? Let me see if I can pull it up. I don't think I can Well, let me let me do this.

01:32:25

I Would I forgot to actually show you some things that I need to show you so I need to plug this

01:32:30

I really it's getting down to the wire on this and I need to Support it pretty hard here

01:32:36

Christianity in the founding conference So if you go to Christianity and the founding

01:32:44

Dot -com that's the website. I'll show you what it looks like actually here. Let's see.

01:32:52

Okay Here it is, so if you go to Christianity in the founding comm

01:32:59

You can register. It's only $30 for this great conference Sam Smith the chair of the

01:33:05

History Department of Liberty University is going to be there pastor Jared Lavelle Zach Garris Sean McGowan Stephen Wolfe Jacob Tanner and myself

01:33:14

We're gonna be presenting on the Christian traditions that have made America what it is April 25th through 29th, you're gonna want to sign up sooner rather than later

01:33:23

And it's gonna it's gonna be good. I'm really excited about this. It is in Sellings Grove, Pennsylvania, which is

01:33:30

Next to Lancaster, Pennsylvania. So think Lancaster if you know that where that is, that's where we're having the conference