Saturday Special: Q&A Pastors and Elders, Pronouncing Yahweh, Pre-Trib Rapture

Can the words elder and pastor be used interchangeably, or are they different offices? What is the proper way to say the name Yahweh? And where does the Bible talk about the rapture? The answers to these questions and others, when we understand the text.

This is When We Understand The Text, a daily Bible study in the word of Christ, that it may dwell in us richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom. Tell your friends about our ministry at www .wutt .com.

Here once again is Pastor Gabe.

Thank you, Becky.

You're welcome.

Who's actually here?

I am.

Pastors, Elders, and the Meaning of Shepherding

Welcome to part two of the Q &A, which started yesterday, answered a couple of questions, had a voicemail. Today we've got two more.

Yeah.

Two more voicemails.

Awesome.

You can send a question to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com or go to www .wutt .com and click on the voicemail tab in the menu. And you can record it from your phone, you can record it from your computer.

We would love to actually hear from you.

That's right.

So this question comes from Zach. Here's our first voicemail of the day. You ready to go?

Sure.

Hi, Pastor Gabe and Becky. This is Zach, grace and peace to you and your family from Surprise, Arizona. My question is regarding the use of the term pastor and elder as a title. I know in the original language that pastor and elder is from the same word, but my church uses pastor to describe the plurality of elders.

So not just the lead pastor, teaching pastor, executive pastor, but also to describe the plurality of elders. The way I've had this described to me is to not confuse the elders of a Christian church with the elders in the context of the Mormon church.

So my question is, what are your thoughts on this? Should we separate the two pastor and elder as two different titles? Or do you believe this is a kind of a non-issue to use pastor interchangeably with elder?

Blessings to you and your ministry. Thank you for all you've done and thank you for being faithful to the text and teaching week in and week out. I've been super blessed by your ministry and I cannot wait to see the wonderful things you do out there in Casa Grande.

Thank you.

I so appreciate that, Zach.

That's awesome. Hi, neighbor.

Yeah.

Surprise, in case you aren't familiar with it, is in the Northwest part of Phoenix.

Yes.

So that's Surprise, Arizona. Great name for a town.

It's awesome.

I love it. Where do you live?

Surprise!

Now, speaking of It's fabulous. Speaking of his well wishes regarding the ministry we're doing in Casa Grande, I've got some news to share with you about that. So hold on tight, but first let's examine Zach's question here.

Yes.

So how about using the name elder and pastor interchangeably? Is that okay?

Well, I want to just give some people a little bit of demographic knowledge, I guess.

Okay. Okay.

Because up in the Phoenix area, there is a very large Mormon area.

Yes.

Okay.

So where he makes that comment, good reason to want to make a distinction between elder and pastor because of how often elder gets used. Concerning the Mormon elders, which are the guys wearing white shirts and the black pants and name tags walking around.

They're all elders.

They are?

Oh, yes.

Oh, I didn't know that.

I didn't know that.

Okay.

So their name tag, when you see it, will say, you know, Elder John, Elder Jason.

Okay.

I guess I never looked at the name tag.

And they might introduce themselves that way. So if they come to your door, like if they're doing the door to door stuff, then they may introduce themselves. Hi, I'm Elder John. This is Elder Jason. We just wanted to talk to you about

Oh, interesting. And now I've heard, I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but

I guess I've just had the Jehovah's Witnesses, not the Mormon.

Yeah.

And they always seem to come when I'm not here.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

I miss them every time.

I try. I try.

I get out my Bible with them and everything. I'm like, uh-huh.

Yeah. Yeah.

And see, it keeps going.

Yeah.

How did Gabe do this?

I'm like, I've got a great ministry and I'm like, just look this up.

Yeah.

The when we understand the text card.

Yep.

Just kind of slip into their hands. So that is some good information to kind of share with where Zach is located. We're kind of in a Mormon belt that goes from Arizona to Utah to Idaho. There's more spread out on the Western side of the United States, but this does seem to be kind of the highest concentration anywhere in the world.

Right.

Well, I think that Mesa was actually founded by Mormons, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, is that right?

That's what I've heard anyway. I don't know how accurate that is, but, and that's part of the Phoenix.

Yeah.

A different part of Phoenix, but still close enough to surprise that it would be a big.

Deal.

Yes.

Yeah.

A very common deal.

So talking about the way that we use the word elder or pastor. Now the word pastor really only comes up about once in the New Testament.

Oh yeah.

And that's in Ephesians chapter four, verse 11, where it is said that he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and the teachers. And it's that word shepherd, which is pastor.

That's where we get pastor from. So pastor simply means shepherd. Elder is a word that is, it's translated from presbyteros, which is a presbytery. That's the same word that we use for Presbyterian. That's where Presbyterian comes from.

So that's the Greek word and it gets translated elders. For example, so I just preached out of Titus 1 .5 this past Sunday.

Yeah.

You'll hear that sermon tomorrow.

Tomorrow.

Yeah.

It'll be the sermon that airs on this podcast. So in Titus 1 .5, Paul says, this is why I left you in Crete so that you might put what remained into order and appoint elders in every town as I directed you.

And that's translated from presbyteros. Now another one is overseer. So first Timothy 3 .1, the saying is trustworthy. If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the Greek word there is episkopos, which we get the word Episcopalian from, or bishop is also translated from overseer.

And that word is likewise synonymous with elder, with pastor, overseer, bishop. These are all the same word. Now when you have this as a plurality, that's where it gets translated presbyteros.

Oh, okay.

So Titus 1 .5. Also in 1 Peter 5 .1, so I exhort the elders among you, and that's presbyteros, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ. So it's fine to use those words interchangeably.

Sure.

I'm the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church. I'm also an elder. And then my two elders, they'll get referred to as elders, but they're also pastors.

Yeah, and pastors. I've heard them called both.

And I've said that from the pulpit. I'm like, you know, you heard Pastor Allen say this morning, so on and so forth. The congregation will regard me as the person who has the most responsibility for leading the teaching in the church.

And I'm the only one that's paid full time. The other elders are, they're lay elders, as we call them. Very, very smart men.

Yes.

Wonderful teachers.

Yes.

In fact, before I got hired here, I even asked them, you guys are perfectly capable teachers. Why do you want me? And they are, they care about the word. They care about the congregation. We are shepherds.

We're under shepherds serving the chief shepherd to care for the flock of God.

Yes.

So it's perfectly fine to use those words interchangeably. At least that's the way I understand your question being, is it okay that you apply elder to the pastor or take the word pastor and even apply it to the lay elder?

Is it okay to use those things interchangeably?

Yeah.

And certainly so.

Yeah, definitely.

A Church Building Project and a Call for Support

Now, that said, Zach wished us well with the ministry that we're doing in Casa Grande.

Yeah.

Wanted to pass this on to you. So we have a building project coming up.

Yes.

We have an opportunity to build a building. Right now we're meeting in a building. It is our building, but it's small.

Yes.

Something like 2200, 2300 square feet or something like that. Not a very big building. And we are maxing out in the space that we have.

I believe it's safe to say we are maxed out, but yes.

We have an overflow room that has a TV in it. I don't like it because it's basically like having a satellite campus, even though that campus is in our building.

At the same time.

Yeah, right. We just put them over here in this room and then you can watch me on the TV screen. We don't like to do that, but if it comes to that, we try to put as many people into the main room as we possibly can.

But anyway, so because we are maxing out our space, the Lord has been so gracious to help us grow in our ministry. Some people, by the way, don't come back because they do feel like that we're too full.

We don't want that to be an issue. We try to motivate that. Don't let that keep you away.

Yeah.

We'll make space.

Right. We're going to try to make everybody as comfortable as possible. But nonetheless, we do recognize that we're going to need something larger. Well, we have talked with another ministry in town. I'm not going to say who just yet, because we haven't inked the deal.

I need to ask somebody's permission.

Yes.

I'm going to ask someone. And if I can say, can I announce on the podcast that it's you and us? Like we're doing this together. And if they say yes, then I'll shout it from the rooftops. But for right now, for the sake of it being a pretty fresh deal, then I'll abstain.

But we have an opportunity to possess some land for a very, very cheap cost. It's basically no cost, which means that we can put all of our costs into the survey, the architecture, the building, and not have to spend the money on the land and all the taxes that end up coming with that.

Yes.

It's wonderful. By the providence of God, we're Providence Church. By the providence of God, we have this opportunity. We have this deal.

Yes.

We're wanting to move on this as fast as we can, because the sooner we get the project started, the sooner we can get to the end of it.

Yes.

And be able to move into a new building. But we're going to need to raise as much of the money up front as we possibly can. So if there is any way that you could be generous to our church and want to donate to us, tax-deductible donation, because you are donating to a nonprofit ministry.

Right.

We have a place on our website. We finally put something up where somebody can donate from the webpage. So go to providencecasagrande .com, and there's a giving tab. I can't remember what it is, but it'll be obvious to you that, okay, that's where I go to give a donation.

Right.

So click on that and give a donation online if you choose to do it that way. If you know somebody who likes to invest in these kinds of things, find a church that I can give money to putting together a building project.

By the way, let me say this. This goes beyond the church. The ministry opportunity that we have is more than just what we as a church are doing with that building.

Right.

We actually have...

It's not going to benefit just us.

It's not benefiting just us. That's as much as I can say about that for now. But this is just an incredible ministry opportunity. And it's one of those things where, as I've shared with other people, I've said, this is the kind of stuff that you hear happening to somebody else, but you're never blessed to be the one that gets it.

And now it's us.

Yes.

If you can help us as much as you can to raise that money before we even get to the building side of it, then when we finally get to building, we're going to have as much of the money ready to go as soon as we're ready to put the shovels in the ground.

Yeah.

Lay the first brick or whatever. I don't even know what the building's going to look like. We haven't gotten that far.

Obviously.

We're in communication with architects and builders and things like we're getting all that rolling.

Yes.

But we need to have as much of the money there as we can. And so, like I said, if you know somebody who enjoys donating to these kinds of things, helping to build these church opportunities, pass that information on to me.

Yes, please.

Send me an email and say, hey, this is somebody you might want to talk to and would love to get them on the phone and share with them. Here's what the ministry looks like. Here's what the building is going to benefit.

And things of that nature. So, again, our email address when we understand the text at gmail .com and find information about how to give to us. There's not going to be a specific category there. It won't say, like, give to building project.

I don't know.

On the website.

Yeah.

It might, if a friend of mine had separated those out into categories.

Yeah.

But it could, wherever you donate, not to make it complicated, just as simple as possible. However you donate there on the website, it'll still get to us and get to that project. So there we go. Laying that out.

Yeah.

If there's anybody who can help.

Zach. Wonderful.

Thank you.

Zach, maybe you want to donate the first $5 or something. Or $500, you know, whatever. And we appreciate your prayers. Everything that you have done for us in terms of just letting other people know about the ministry has been fantastic.

That in and of itself.

Yes.

Be in prayer for us as we venture into this next project. Pray that it all.

The next step, yes.

Yes.

Pray that it all goes quickly because, and we've been hearing horror stories about, oh,.

It took us.

Two years.

Yeah, right. 18 months to get this done or that. And we're hoping that the doors are going to open.

And that's not the full project. That's just one part of it.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Won't even be the full thing. It was just, oh, trying to get the city to do this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're hoping that we can avoid all. Just talking about it before we even get to it.

Yeah.

Just talking about it has made me go, oh, man, I just loathe bureaucracy.

All the red tape.

All the red tape.

You gotta go.

Yeah.

It's good in some respects. And in other ways, it's like, what is the point of this?

It's good.

It's good to have it all, but in documentation. But yeah, it is a hassle for sure.

Certainly that. All right. Let's get to this next email. So it sounds like somebody sent us an email just to irritate you, Becky.

Oh, lovely. Thank you.

This is from our friend, a longtime listener named Jackson. And he says, I'm sharing my pain. Well, first of all, his greeting is hi, Pastor Gabe and Mrs. Babe. I'm sharing my pain. See the link below with you.

Yes.

That's how much I love you guys. I thank the Lord in my remembrance of you. Now, I love this stuff. Just playing this kind of thing and making fun of it. But we know how cringy this is for Becky. So here we go.

This is how you really pronounce the name Yahweh.

Oh, dear.

How do you pronounce Yahweh? Any guesses?

Yahweh.

Well, first of all, let me say that we don't

Unless you're in a different language. And then it's a little different, I'm sure.

Yeah.

Let me say, we actually don't know what the correct pronunciation is.

Right.

How did they pronounce it? How did they say it in Old Testament times?

Right.

We don't know.

We don't know.

Pronunciation's actually been lost to us.

Sure.

But this guy thinks he knows.

Okay.

He thinks he's got it. You ready?

Sure.

Pronounce Y-H-W-H when there is no vowels to say correctly. You don't use your tongue and you can't close your lips. So his name imitates the natural act of breathing as you inhale and exhale. So this is how Y-H-W-H sounds like.

Can you imagine? The first word you have ever spoken when you came out of your mother's womb was the personal name of God. And the last word you ever speak in this life, the last breath you will take on your deathbed, will be the name of God.

You will leave this earth when his name no longer fills your lungs. Imagine when you are sad and you sigh heavily, calling out his name. When your heart is broken and you don't know what else to say, and all you can do is to sob in tears and gasp for breaths, you're calling out his name.

Oh, and the comments are just full of like, Oh, that is so beautiful. I've never even thought of that. That's amazing. When I breathe, I'm saying the name of Yahweh.

Well, that would be amazing if that was true.

Yeah.

Isn't that in vain?

Yeah, exactly.

Oh my goodness.

If you're not saying it unto the praise of his name, then you're cursing every time you breathe. If that's the way that we're supposed to understand his name.

And how many times do I sigh? Like, out of frustration.

Yeah, right.

You know, that's me taking the Lord's name in vain. Oh my goodness. I'm in trouble.

Because the kids haven't done their chores. They haven't picked up their stuff.

Oh, all the time.

Here comes Becky.

Yeah.

Oh my goodness.

And I have to come out and go, Becky, don't take the Lord's name in vain.

Oh, our children would be so confused.

So, in Hosea 1, since I just taught from Hosea earlier this week.

Yeah.

Hosea 1 .1, the word of, which came to Hosea, the son of Mirai in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz. I mean, is that the way that they would say it back then?

It just doesn't have the reverence that it should.

Right, right.

It has to have a name.

Yeah.

I mean, was everybody named something that's just a breath?

Well, and that's the thing.

They didn't have vowels.

Yeah, see, that's the thing about the Hebrew language is it tends to be kind of guttural.

Yeah.

So, it would be more like Yahweh.

Right.

You know, and we probably don't say it the way that they said it.

Yeah.

But it would sound pretty harsh.

It doesn't.

Sort of like German, because German's pretty harsh.

Yeah, right.

I mean, you got to talk in the back of your throat for German.

And get really mad about it.

Yeah.

I sure hope we weren't cursing.

That was I love you.

Oh, okay.

The scowl in your face said it all.

Yes.

I didn't need to know.

You're welcome.

Yeah, that's right. So, yeah, anyway, that's just utterly silly. There's nothing really to say to that, because it's not the way.

Oh, my goodness.

Yahweh.

Thank you, Jackson, for sharing.

And you, I mean, you reasoned it exactly like you should.

Yeah.

If it's really just us taking a breath, then how often are we really doing that in reverence unto the Lord?

Yeah.

Instead of doing it in vain.

I mean, really. But at the same time, every breath is in vain anyway, because how often do we pray to the Lord?

Yeah, right.

Like we should.

It's like Paul Washer saying that Jesus said the greatest command is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And you've never done that.

Right.

Never at any second in your life have you loved the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.

Right.

We are able to worship God in a way that is pleasing and acceptable to him because of the righteousness of Christ that we've been clothed in.

Amen.

But we don't have any righteousness of our own.

No.

By which we can offer such a thing and declare, look how obedient I've been.

Right.

Look how much I love God and have done so with all of my heart. It's only accomplished through the righteousness of Christ.

Yeah. Amen.

The Rapture, Christ's Return, and the Day of Judgment

All right. One more voicemail that we have to get to here. And this one comes from Rachel. Here we go.

Hello, my name is Rachel, and I really appreciate the podcast that you guys put out every week. It's such a blessing in my life, and I always keep you guys in my prayers. So my question today is, do you believe that there is biblical evidence for the rapturing of the church, like pre trip, mid trip, post trip?

I'm just kind of curious what your rapture thoughts are. Thanks.

Bye.

All right. So the word rapture itself doesn't appear in the Bible. We don't have an English translation. It says the rapture of the church will happen. You know, it's not anything like that. The word itself actually comes from the Latin translation of 1 Thessalonians chapter four, where it says that we will be caught up with the Lord in the air.

Right.

And in Latin, it's Rapturo. And so from that word, we have coined the term rapture and have referred to that catching up of the Saints with the Lord when he returns as the rapture of the church.

Right.

Now, there are some who believe that the rapture happens at the beginning of a seven year period of tribulation. And then during that seven year period, the Antichrist is revealed after the church is gone.

Church has been raptured. Antichrist is revealed. You have the mark of the beast, the great tribulation, everything that's going to happen in that seven years. God dealing with Israel, so on and so forth.

Then at the end of that seven years, Jesus returns with the Saints that he had raptured at the beginning of that seven years. And also with those who had previously died in the thousands of years before that.

Right.

All of the Saints throughout history, Old Testament and new present day with the church returns with Christ. Those who had gotten saved during that seven year period of tribulation likewise get caught up with Christ in that second second coming.

Okay.

And then the I'm just telling you, this is the this is that pre trib.

Yeah.

Rapture view. And then he brings judgment upon the world at the end of that seven years.

Right.

Now, that's not the view that I take.

No.

If you read First Thessalonians 4 13 through 5 11, where we get the term rapture from, this is where rapture is derived out of. It's evident, at least the way that Paul lays this out, that the day that Christ returns and takes up his church and the judgment that he will pour out on the ungodly are the same.

Event.

So reading from First Thessalonians 4 13 on and this time I'm reading from the English Standard Version, by the way. But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this, we declare to you by a word from the Lord that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the sound of the trumpet of God and the dead in Christ will rise first. And then we who are alive, who are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

And so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore, encourage one another with these words. And it's that statement, we will be caught up together with.

Them.

That's where we get rapture from. Those who hold that pre-trib rapture view think that this return of Christ and the being caught up in the air with him is a silent event. Most of them do. I won't say that every, not all of them do.

But this is what you see in most apocalyptic fiction, like the left behind series, right? People just vanish. They leave their clothes behind and it's gone and it's gone. And nobody knows what happened.

These people just disappeared. What took place? We don't know. Or when you see, what was the name of that movie from back in the 70s? It wasn't left behind.