The Age of the Earth, Creation, and the Gospel Connection

Presuppositions, Naturalism, and Why Scripture Must Govern Science

Alright. Hello, everyone. My name's Alex. And I think actually, yeah, it's muted.

Sorry. The slide's muted.

Alright. Now, we're ready. Alex with an A. Alright. So, thank you, Quatro for having me. And tonight, we're gonna be talking about an issue that is controversial even though in even in Christian circles, even though it really shouldn't be.

But that's creation, evolution, the age of the earth, and the gospel connection. So, I'm gonna start with some general just background kind of information on this issue and then get into more specific questions that people have about it around this topic later in the presentation and in future weeks to come.

So, this issue, although it is kind of pitched this way oftentimes, it's not a science versus religion issue. It's as is commonly portrayed. But rather, it is two different views of the world, different presuppositions that people come with and based on how they view the world.

One's based on the Bible and the history contained in that. And the other is based on naturalism and uniformitarianism. Now, if you don't know what those words mean, naturalism is the belief that there is no supernatural, that there's just natural processes around us that explain how everything came to be.

And uniformitarianism is the belief that all things happen at the same rate and in the same way. So, these presuppositions can wildly change how people look at scientific observations. So, what are presuppositions?

This is an important topic because this really governs the whole issue here is what the presuppositions we bring to the table is define how we look at different scientific observations. So, presuppositions are preconceived ideas that we bring to the table when discussing, debating, learning, et cetera, that inform how we interpret information and ideas.

Sadly, many people bring presuppositions to the Bible when they read the Bible and read texts like Genesis 1. But we need to start with the inspired and inerrant text of scripture in the context that it was written and believe what it says regardless of how it may clash with our notions about life, the universe, and everything that we may have had even our whole lives.

The presuppositions are really where this controversy is. No one is neutral. Many people say like, well, scientists are just objectively looking at evidence and it's just not true. Everyone comes with a worldview of how they view the world and the principles that govern the world and how it came to be.

And people bring that to science even. So that's where this controversy really is. And it's crucial to understand that when someone says this is what the science says, a worldview and a belief system is used to come to that interpretation of the evidence.

Science is not above scripture. And we as Christians should look at science through the lens of scripture rather than scripture through the lens of science as many sadly do with this issue. Evidence must not determine how we interpret the scriptures or you will be tossed by every wind of doctrine as Ephesians 4 .14 says.

As evidence changes every day, changes very frequently because science changes, but the word of God does not change. When we approach a subject like the beginning of the world, many Christians come with presuppositions about what the world says and try to squeeze something completely contradictory to the text into the text that is abundantly clear in the interpretation we must take.

I can name many names of famous preachers likely everyone here has heard of that have done this, that have compromised in this point, even like they would say they take a nuanced stance on it. But if you look into, you know, what their position actually is, then they're trying to fit in long ages where there just isn't any.

And it's interesting that the word science means knowledge. And the scripture has a couple of things to say about where we need to start with knowledge. So can I have someone read Colossians 2, 1 through 4?

Can I get a volunteer? Anybody? Going once, going twice. You got it Gunnar? While Gunnar's pulling that up, can someone else go to Proverbs 1, 7?

Christ as the Source of Wisdom and the Fear of the Lord

Colossians 2, 1 through 4, you.

Said? Correct. I want you to.

Know how great a stroke of heart may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of the full assurance of understanding and.

The knowledge of God's mystery,.

Which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I say this.

In order that no one may delude.

Him with plausible arguments.

So how much of the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Christ? Just some of them, non-scientific things. No, all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Christ. And that's where we need to start.

So Stephanie will read Proverbs 1, 7. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Too many people approach science and knowledge, and a lot of bad science has been done because of this, because they do not fear Yahweh.

So let's read the account of the only one who was there when everything began in Genesis 1. So turn with me in your Bibles, and we will read the very first page of the inspired text of Holy Scripture.

It's the Old Testament, by the way. All right. Genesis 1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

Then God said, Let there be light, and there was light. And God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. And God called the light day, and the darkness he called night.

And there was evening, and there was morning one day. Then God said, Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters. So God made the expanse and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse.

And it was so. And God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening, and there was morning a second day. Then God said, Let the waters below and the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear.

And it was so. And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters he called seas. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, Let the earth spread vegetation, plants yielding seeds and fruit trees on the earth, bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them.

And it was so. And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them after their kind. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning a third day.

Then God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be signs for the seasons and for days and years. Let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth.

And it was so. And so God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night, and also the stars. And God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness.

And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning a fourth day. Then God said, Let the water swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the expanse of the heavens.

And God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves with which the water swarm after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind. And God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let the birds multiply on the earth.

And there was evening, and there was morning a fifth day. Then God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind.

And it was so. God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing of the ground after its kind. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man in our image according to our likeness, so that they will have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

And God created man in his own image. In his image, in the image of God, he created them. Male and female, he created them. God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that creeps on the earth.

Then God said, Behold, I have given you every plant-yielding seed that is on the surface of the earth, and every tree which has the fruit of the tree-yielding seed, it shall be food for you. And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky, and to every thing that creeps on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food.

And it was so. And God saw all that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning, the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.

And on the seventh day, God completed his work, which he had done. And he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it he rested from all his work which God had created in making it.

The Six-Day Creation Week and the Meaning of Genesis 1

So from just reading that text, how long did it take for the heavens and the earth to be formed? Correct? No. Yeah, it's six days, right? And God rested on the seventh day. So I guess I can just back it up now.

Now some people will try to approach this text and put millions and billions of years in this text. Some people try and put it between Genesis 1 -1 and 1 -2, and then that's what's called the gap theory.

Others try and say that each or between each day, which is also called the gap theory. Others try and say that each day in Genesis could be interpreted as a period of time rather than a literal day. Yet others try to say that Genesis is just poetry and nothing in it is to be taken literally.

We'll go through each of these objections and talk about why none of them hold water in interpreting the text correctly. So let's take a step back first and ask ourselves, what's the big deal about Genesis?

Why should we care about how this text is to be interpreted? And so some people believe in old earth, so what? Why should we believe? Why is this so important? Do we need to make a big deal of this? And can we just focus on the gospel?

Lots of Christians have different views on minor issues after all, so is this really a hill to die on? And yes, it is. Let's take a look at how that is so. Because if you take out Genesis, you actually lose the whole gospel.

So first off, let me ask you this. Why did Jesus come to die? To pay for sins, right? So where did sin come from? That's right, from Adam, right? So sin started with Adam, who takes place in Genesis, if you didn't know.

So now we'll turn to Romans five quickly, just quickly. Romans five, if you're following along in the reading plan, we just read this a few days ago. Genesis five, 12 to 14 says this. Therefore, just as through one man, let's talk about Adam, then entered into the world and death through sin.

And so death spread to all men because all sinned. For until the law, sin was in the world, but sin was not imputed where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the trespass of Adam, which is a type of him who was to come.

So Paul here is talking about, he's giving a theology of the gospel and of justification. And he starts with Adam, that Adam was the original person who sinned, Adam and Eve, obviously. And that that's what spreaded sin to all men, right?

Is that because Adam sinned and we are all his descendants, we all have sin. And that's why, and that's why Jesus came to die, right? And why did he actually have to die? Like, why did Jesus have to go to death is because death is a result of sin.

And that's found in Genesis, in Genesis three, part of the curse, right? Is, is that if they ate of the tree, it would, it would bring death, they would die, right? So death is a result of sin. And that's why Jesus had to die to take the curse of sin on himself.

So this is all connected in Genesis, right? So if you take out a literal Adam, there is no reason for Jesus to come and die because death is not a result of sin. In that case, it's just a natural process.

Jesus and the new Testament writers refer to the events in Genesis as historical events, not poetry. So Jesus being God in the flesh knows all things, right? Did he know if Genesis was literal or not?

But he refers to it as history. So even the events of Noah and, and Paul refers, we just read, refers to Adam. So they talk about this as if they were actual people and who actually lived in history. So were they wrong?

Because if you take out Genesis or reinterpret Genesis, then, then they were wrong. Okay. So we believe in a literal Adam who, who literally sinned. Why can't there be long ages before Adam? So this is where people try and, cause they see how Adam directly connects to the gospel.

So they try and put it before Adam. So this comes down to why people want to put long ages before Adam. If you press people who insist on long ages in Genesis, the reason they will usually give is not because they just see it in the text.

Like we just read, do you see billions of years? If you just read the text without any presuppositions, it's just not there. But, but it usually is something like, how did the fossil record get there?

Then weren't those rock layers laid down slowly over millions of years, or where would the dinosaurs fit then? You know, if, if did, did Adam live with dinosaurs? And the answer is yes, but that we'll cover that in another night.

So, so let's, let's take a look at some slides here. Boom slides. So here we have the creation week, those six days of creation. God calls all things very good. And then the fall. So where can everyone see that?

Okay. I didn't mean to be standing in the way. Let's see. Whoops. So where do the fossils go? Can we, so can we put them before Adam? This was a lot more dynamic when the remote worked. There we go. Before creation week, can we fit them before creation week?

So to start with what is a fossil? Does anyone know? It's usually a dead thing, right? It's not always, but usually a petrified dead thing. So this way we would have death before sin. If the fossil record is before creation week or sometime during creation week, then we have death before sin because the fossil record is, guess what?

Filled with dead things. And we already saw that how that undermines the gospel. And not only that, but look at what Genesis 1 31 says, like we just read that God saw that all that he had made and behold, it was very good.

So God calls everything he had made up to that point. Very good. So what do we see in the fossil record? We not only see death, we see cancer, we see thorns, we see suffering, we see animals tearing each other apart, that this is all in the fossil record.

So did God call all that very good? If it was before the seventh day, when he rested there, see dynamic, we got to call that very good. If you try and squeeze it before or anywhere during the days of creation, before that very good God is calling sin, death and suffering very good, right?

So maybe we try and put the fossils after Adam, but, and this is the correct, this is the correct view, but it's not millions of years. And, uh, because no one tries to say that humanity has been around for millions of years, for starters, even evolutionists don't try and say that.

And I think God foresaw how people would try and put millions of years in the Bible. So he, he included specific time markers to close up any sort of time gap after creation week. God included what are called chrono genealogies in Genesis with ages attached to them in Genesis five and 11.

So this is the only place that this happens in scripture is with, there's lots of genealogies in scripture. If you've ever read the Bible, and this is the only place that this happens. So like for instance, in verse 17, so the days of Mahalo were 895 and he died and Jared lived 162 years and became the father of Enoch and Jared lived.

Then Jared lived 800 years after he became the father of Enoch and he became the father of other sons and daughters. And we have the same thing after the story of Noah in Genesis 11, where it includes how long they lived and when they had their children.

So from that, we can get a very accurate history of the ages up until Abraham. And no one debates when Abraham lived. So, um, I lost my place. Uh, yeah. So this is the only place in the Bible where that happens and no one debates where Abraham lived.

Also, even according to evolution, humanity hasn't been around for millions of years, like I said. So basically you can't have millions of years without death before sin, which undermines the gospel. So what do we do with so-called science that's telling us everything happens slowly over millions and billions of years without God.

It comes back to presuppositions. We all see the world through glasses as it were. The evolutionists sees everything through millions of years and slow processes, colored glasses, whereas the Christian sees every the world through Bible colored glasses, as we should.

We should always believe what the Bible says, even if we don't have the answers. And even if science does, it's wrong. We can have faith in God that his word is true and that there is an answer, even if we don't know what that answer is.

But because God's word is true, the actual the actual observations fit better with the Bible rather than evolutionary history. A key thing to remember when it comes to the fossil record, which is one of the biggest reasons people give for old ages, is the global flood of Noah.

That the global flood would have done sped up geological processes or processes. How do you say it Gunnar? Process processes, whatever processes. Don't I sound smart? That under normal circumstances would take a long time.

Quick example is if you look at the Colorado River, right? And the Grand Canyon, people look at that and say, oh, that must've taken millions and millions of years for that little river to carve out the canyon.

But a big flood would carve that out in a day. And we've seen that happen. Like the earthquakes in Turkey just created massive canyons in a day. Right. And same with Mount St. Helens. And also like if you look at the Grand Canyon, the middle of it is actually higher elevation than the edges.

So you'd have to believe in a miracle of a river flowing up elevation to believe the Grand Canyon was carved by that. So just interesting example. Yeah. So it would have sped up geological processes that would have taken a long time under normal circumstances.

The evolutionists would say that creatures would die and be slowly buried over millions of years as rock layers accumulate or as sediment layers accumulate slowly as a dead thing just sits there. But a much better explanation is that these creatures were buried very rapidly in a worldwide marine catastrophe.

For starters, how many of you have seen an animal die and then for years and years later, it's just sitting in the same place being slowly buried over years and years? Has anyone seen that? Years and years later?

Or does it get eaten by predators? Does it decompose? Like a bunch of things happen. Scavengers come and the weather washes it away within a matter of months or sometimes even days. A carcass is completely gone, right?

And here's a little science fact that you can go home and test out for yourself. Fossils can only form when rapidly buried in sedimentary water. This has been observed time and time again, but has never been observed over long periods of time.

So there's a paleontologist at the Tyrell Museum in Canada. He once said that fossilization, he's an evolutionist, but he said, fossilization can happen in a matter of hours or millions of years. Which one of those two do you think he's observed himself?

Probably just the hours one, right? The fact that the scientific method is about observation, right? And so they're postulating these things. And we'll get more into the geology stuff when we talk about Noah's Flood, but I brought some photos of some fossils and we'll just see which history fits best.

Low burial or rapid burial? Can you just advance the slide for me there? There we go. So here we have a fossilized fish giving birth. Do you think that took millions of years? I hope not. So that would be rapid burial, right?

If you can see, I don't know if the laser pointer here. So it's the baby fish here. This is the mommy fish. It's crazy, right? Next slide, Quatro. Here's a fossilized octopus and jellyfish. So interesting thing about octopuses and jellyfish is they have no bones.

So how long do you think it would last before they decompose? Not very long at all, right? Because the bones are usually what lasts the longest. But here you have fossilized, uh, you probably know, Taylor, what are they.

Called again? What are they?

No, you don't. Don't you teach science? Oh, sorry. Oh, same thing. Invertebrates, that's it. The word was slipping me there. Yeah. So fossilized invertebrates wouldn't have happened slowly. Next slide.

So this one's really cool. This is Tyrannosaurus Rex blood vessels that were found in a fossilized bone. So if you don't know, blood vessels can't last that long. But the, this was found by an evolutionist and she's like, I did the test four times.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing, but there's soft and stretchy tissue, even with blood vessels, even what looks like, like cells there. But I mean, it's quite, you know, old. So even, even with young ages, it doesn't last that long, but it's, it's incredible.

Like that doesn't last millions of years. So, but don't worry, they won't make Jurassic Park out of this. But so here's, here is two fossilized mating insects, which would, rapid burial, right? Next slide.

So these are what are called polystrate fossils. So it's basically, so the narrative is right, like the, you know, sediment layers get slowly laid down. So here's a tree spanning through multiple rock layers.

So if this like thin rock layers, millions of years, this tree's spanning billions and billions of years, evidently, but it doesn't make sense from, from the, because you know, trees don't, even the oldest trees wouldn't last that long.

So like that just grows right through without any rotting or anything. Just, it's crazy. Next slide. And here's some modern fossils of, or so like there's two different types of fossilization, right? There's calcification is what we're normally familiar with, which is what it completely turns the bone to stone.

And then there's like petrification, which is like a rock encapsulating it. So there's like a fossil axe head, fossil butter, and that's not the only one that they found either. And a fossilized miner's hat, fossilized flower, wire encased in rock.

So it's a roll of wire. It's completely encased in rock all naturally. And then a toy car that was found on the beach that you can see, if you can see there, there's little wheels and a plastic body on there, but it's completely encased in rock.

Just happened by sitting on the beach there, getting buried in slow, getting buried in sediment, sorry. So I think that's the last one. Yeah. So, but today was a bit of bigger picture kind of stuff than I've done earlier than I thought it would be.

But I think, I hope this communicates why this issue matters. And in the next few weeks, we'll dive deeper into global flood, is the pun, and how Christians should view dinosaurs, biological evolution.

And yeah, I hope you can see this isn't a side issue and that we cannot try and fit the world's ideas into the Bible. Let's start with the Bible and believe what it says, looking at context and interpreting scripture with scripture and science will eventually catch up, but we can know God will never change.

And his word is true from the very first verse. Could you go to the next slide Quatro? Oh, you already got. So if you want spoilers for next week or how, or have it pretty much any question around this issue, we have a great website.

It's hard to remember the domain name, but it's creation .com really long domain name, but there's over 10 ,000 articles on there. So pretty much any question, no matter how obscure that you can think of, it's probably on there.

And as far as we know, we, this where I work for, by the way, anyone didn't know that. So as far as we know, we employ more PhD scientists than any other Christian organization, but that's just to our knowledge.

But, um, yeah, so it's a good, good resource. That's completely free. You can search as many articles as you want on there. So I guess, uh, does anyone have any questions about what we talked about tonight?

Like I said, we'll get into specific questions people have around like, how did all the animals fail in the arc? Who was Cain's wife and all that kind of stuff.

Questions About Young-Earth Creation, Evolution, and the Fossil Record

Has there been a lot of change recent years, a younger, newer theologians believing in a younger earth theory?

From a theological perspective, like a theologians?

Accepting the younger view than used to be before?

I'm, I think it's, it's going the other way. Unfortunately, there's organizations like BioLogos, that is supposedly a Christian organization that their mission is to teach Christians why they can believe in evolution.

And, and it's just, it's bonkers, but it's, I think among Christians who are, there's a resurgence of Sola Scriptura. So I think among Christians who are starting with the Bible, there's a resurgence of that.

Plus, I mean, there is like this resurgence of, um, you know, creation science that like people who, who are scientists like are realizing that the data doesn't really support millions of years. So there, I mean, there is hopeful stuff too, but, um, it's, I mean, like most seminaries you go to, like the Old Testament professors will teach old ages.

I think there's very few that would teach young ages, sadly.

It's interesting, Alex, way on, but even in the scientific community, when you began, you can be an atheist scientist, you began to bring up evidence that goes against the narrative. You're blacklisted, Sean, there's no way.

And it's interesting because they claim as Alex made a great point, they claim observation, science is about observation. And yet when other observations are made that, that counteract these things that have been long held beliefs in the secular scientific community,.

They're just rejected.

Like the, those photos of the T-Rex stretchy tissue, soft tissue in dinosaur bones. That's not the only one that's been found, by the way, they found many since that, that was just the first one they found.

And, uh, it's like, she got wildly attacked by people who saw her, even though she's an evolutionist, she believes in evolution herself. And she was like, I couldn't believe my findings either, but because it doesn't make sense from her worldview, but it's, but people were attacking her even though she is on their side to say, but, but just because the observations doesn't make sense in their view.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. She, she literally said that I couldn't believe my eyes. Like those scenes, soft, stretchy tissue and dinosaur bones. It's crazy.

What do you think. The void of the scientists, other than.

Romans 1 and 10, right? Why,.

Why can they see the evidence?

That scene, even just in your slideshow, it seems pretty clear and simplistic and elementary. Just look at it. Obviously, uh, there is this literal six day creation and rapid. Why, why do you think they're, they're putting that out there over a million years.

Of evolution? I mean, like you said, I think the main problem is people suppressing the truth and unrighteousness. Like Romans one says that people love their sin and want to explain how we got here, how the world got here without God.

Right. And, and like, I think there's another aspect nowadays because it's been the established view for so long that people just like you were saying, like people get expelled and lose their, their job if they question it.

Nowadays, there's, there's a documentary, if you're interested, called Expelled by Ben Stein. And he just taught, he doesn't even talk about the issue at all. He just talks like about, or, well, I think he does get into the issue, but, but like, he talks just about like scientists who've lost their jobs because they were like, this doesn't make sense.

And, and stuff. It's, it's pretty, I mean, he's not a Christian, but it's a pretty crazy. Yeah. And then like back to Charles Darwin, like his friend, Charles Lyle, who wrote the book that influenced him to write on the origins of the species.

He specifically wrote to Darwin saying like, finally, we can get rid of Moses out of explaining like the, so I can get into that more on another week, but there's, there's some pretty like nefarious history there that he, he was trying to get rid of Moses and, and the Bible out of explaining history and the beginning of the world.

So I mean, you just got to, like I said, look through the Bible colored glasses.

Presuppositions, Atheism, and the Need to Read the World Through the Bible

I want you to understand something. I don't want a.

Teenager to understand.

Something. This is not religion versus science. And Alex did a very good job at the beginning there talking about presupposition. Like when you come to the text, everyone's.

Hearing presupposition. A.

Scientist says, Oh, I'm not about secular science. It says, and I've heard this a thousand times. Oh, I'm not really atheist. God may exist, but I don't know if he exists because I haven't observed him in science.

Okay. If you come to a.

Situation, you come to this.

Church, I'm going to observe this chair and God may or may not exist. You cannot observe this chair right. You just can't because you're separating this creative thing from the creator that maybe you can't do math right.

You can't do science right. You can't do grammar right. You can't do none of the disciplines right, separated from God. And so the idea is that there's this presupposition of God doesn't exist, where.

Really the atheist position is.

God exists and I hate it. But God doesn't exist and I hate it. But they gave this presupposition that God doesn't exist. And so that flows into.

Everything.

Yeah, there's a story of a man who thought he was dead. He convinced himself that he was dead. His family was distraught. They were like, you're not dead like you can talk like, look at all this and he wouldn't believe them.

So they took him to a doctor and the doctor said, thought for a second and he was like, well, do dead men bleed? And he was like, no, they don't have a heart pumping. They don't bleed. And so he pricks his finger.

He starts bleeding. He's like, oh, would you look at that? Dead men do bleed. But that's how a lot of people view it. It's like, well, it's got to fit into my view somehow, but instead of just, you know, because and, you know, we're all like that.

I'm not, I'm not saying Christians aren't like that. We, and we should be standing on the word of God above all. And you're going to bring up presupposition, just make sure it's the right.