February 15, 2021 Show with Vince Hinders on “Child-on-Child Sexual Abuse: Responding in the Context of the Local Church”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. And now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 15th day of February 2021.

I want to thank the hundreds of you who have expressed birthday wishes to me. My birthday was yesterday, my 59th birthday was yesterday, and or as I should say according to a very close friend's grandson who's seven years old, my 1 ,000th birthday.

And I just want to thank the hundreds of you who sent in birthday greetings on Facebook. Actually, it was the same person who was a stalker, but I'm only kidding. But thanks for making my day even more special.

And I want to thank the Richardson slash Ignacio family here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, for making my birthday very special over lunch after worship services. And I just thank God for dear friends like you.

But now that the introductory remarks are over, I can now come to a point where I doubt I'll be saying anything amusing again, because we have one of the most serious issues that we are going to discuss.

An issue so serious that it actually made me feel queasy promoting it in writing. But it's something that needs to be discussed, especially by the church, if we are going to be good stewards as the body of Christ over the responsibility and privileges that God has given us as the church, and if we are going to be more prepared and equipped to protect those most vulnerable amongst us, especially being little children, from harm.

Child-on-Child Sexual Abuse in the Local Church

So today we are going to be addressing child-on-child sexual abuse, responding in the context of the local church. We have addressed all kinds of abuse situations on this program. We have addressed spousal abuse.

We have addressed sexual abuse amongst adults. We've addressed pedophilia, the wicked satanic sin of an adult molesting a child, and very often sexually. But we have never addressed before specifically child-on-child sexual abuse, although it was a part of an interview that I conducted a number of months ago on protecting children from sexual abuse.

That was just a very brief side issue that came up, but may have even come up through a listener question. But today the focus of our entire program is child-on-child sexual abuse, and to discuss this is a first-time guest, Vince Henders, who is Executive Pastor at Redeeming Grace Church in Fairfax, Virginia, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Vince Henders.

Thank you, Chris.

Amen. I'm going to give our listeners our email address right away in the event that they have questions about this very important topic. It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and I could see a topic like this easily lending itself to people wanting to remain anonymous because the situation or the question of child-on-child sexual abuse may involve their own children.

It may involve children in the church where they are a member, or any other scenario where there is personal connection to this very tragic situation. So, obviously, you may feel free to remain anonymous.

If it is a general question, I would ask that you at least give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And by the way, Pastor Vince, if you could, before we go into the topic at hand, tell our listeners about, excuse me, Redeeming Grace Church of Fairfax, Virginia.

Yeah, so our church was founded in 1979. It was a...

Well, if anybody wants to find out more about Redeeming Grace Church of Fairfax, excuse me, Virginia, their website that I just had in front of me and seems to have disappeared. Here it is. It's rgcfairfax .org.

RGC for Redeeming Grace Church. Fairfax, F-A-I-R-F-A-X .org. And God willing, we'll be repeating that later on in the program. Since you are a first-time guest, Pastor Vince, we have a tradition here where every time we have a first-time guest, they give a summary of their testimony of salvation.

That would include the kind of religious atmosphere they were raised in and the providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them. So if you could start with your personal testimony of salvation.

I'm a Roman Catholic family. Yeah, so we do make the decision.

Praise God. And tell us how you came to know that you were called into the pastoral ministry.

That's a...

Well, praise God. And how did you come to the Reformed faith? Well, that's a no-brainer there.

It is, honestly. And some of it is my Catholic background. I think I always knew.

I rejoice that you have come to these precious truths and are now having them as a key focal point in your pastoral ministry as well. Well, this, as I was saying before, is a topic, the kind of topic that you wish you didn't have to ever speak about.

And unfortunately, not speaking about certain things leads to their perpetuation and also leads to the harm of others. I think that parents do a horrific injustice and do great harm to their own children when they do not discuss things about sex that may make them uncomfortable and may make them leave that duty and responsibility to others.

And unfortunately, our society for decades has come to believe that the state-run churches have a duty to teach children about these things, and they do so coming from ideology that very often is born right from the pits of hell.

All kinds of evil and twisted and perverse and damnable and unnatural things that are promoted to children by state-run schools, and even sometimes unwittingly elements of this sex education curriculum is borrowed from even parochial so-called Christian schools.

I even have interviewed a woman, Audrey Werner, who has been trying to alert and warn the more conservative Lutheran denominations about their adoption of some of this stuff that comes straight out of Kinsey's textbook.

Kinsey, who was a very seriously evil and perverse individual, but it is a sad situation indeed when being squeamish or uncomfortable over something leads one to ignore a subject that needs to be discussed.

So I'm glad that you not only have brought it to my attention that you have researched this issue, but that you wanted to discuss it on my program. Tell us what led to this, what led to you wanting to research this to begin with, which eventually led to a thoroughly documented and researched paper that you've written.

After the effort was there, sadly innocent by the authorities.

Great. Well, you have done the body of Christ a great service by creating this paper. And so tell us, first of all, about some of the statistics we're speaking today about child-on-child sexual abuse.

And what are the statistics involving the percentage of child abuse that takes place involving child-on-child sexual abuse? And also, is there typically an age difference between the children involved with this?

Is this just total naivete amongst children who are voluntarily on both sides involved in this because they're just unaware of the seriousness of what they're doing and those kinds of things?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, as far as the percentage,.

When we hear about child-on-child sexual abuse, is it most often the more serious and actually criminal situation where you have an older child actually victimizing a younger child? And let me repeat our email address one more time because this is a serious issue.

And I want as many people to have the questions that they always wanted to know or always wanted to have answered but were too afraid to ask. I want our listeners to ask them today. And as I said, you may remain anonymous.

That's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. So, you hear from a little child, perhaps, you're a parent, and your little child tells you that he or she has been involved in some kind of playtime that involves undressing or exposing themselves, and they may be even saying this to you very innocently as if nothing of consequence happened.

What should be the first thing a parent does? Well, as far as the very first thing.

However, should you first contact if the parents of the other child or children involved in this activity or incident are known to you or are in your church, perhaps, should you contact them before you contact the pastor?

Should you contact them before you contact the police? What would be the situation with that kind of a thing? I know that, I mean, I don't know this, but I would imagine it would anger me if my child was involved in something like that, and I was not notified before the police were, but if you could just tell us about that.

Yeah, and quite honestly, Chris, this is where it gets complicated from the very beginning, because it might be very different. Yeah, I'm assuming you're speaking.

About a babysitter that would be a child, but an older child.

Exactly, and was the child... If it is an activity involving children of,.

You know, five, or perhaps you could even give me the cut-off age when you think it's appropriate to keep it out of the necessity of contacting the police, if it's a five-year-old saying that another five-year-old undressed or did something, what is your first...

What is your counsel for a first reaction? Should you call the other parents first? Should you call the pastor first? What would be your input? And when, in your opinion, and it may be... I know this is probably not an exact science, but when, and is it necessary.

To call the police at certain age levels? One of the things that is concerning to me, though,.

When you mentioned child protection agencies, we're in some very scary times these days, and we don't even know where the left especially is going to take this country as far as what is going to be deemed to be criminal activity.

I mean, we could reach a point even within this administration, who knows, where it is considered a crime for a parent to teach their children that homosexuality is wrong. So shouldn't there be some caution about...

Unless you're talking about actual criminal molestation, a teenager versus a prepubescent child, or just such a situation where there is obvious perversion and criminal intent here, shouldn't we try to keep these kinds of agencies out of the picture as often as we can and for as long as we.

Can? But that's why a crime, that should then... Yes, I guess the reason why I reacted the way that.

I did is that I know at least one pastor who adopted children in Massachusetts, and Massachusetts is such a leftist state that being a pastor married to somebody of the opposite gender with children is a mark against you when adopting.

I'm not saying it's the same in every state, but they had to tread very lightly during the adoption process, lightly and prayerfully, because they could have been prohibited from adopting because of the very nature of the fact that the adoptive parents are conservative Christians.

And I just have this very pessimistic view, perhaps overly pessimistic, but of agencies, depending upon where you live, looking for opportunities to remove children from the homes of Christian parents.

That's.

Really why I brought that up. Yeah, one of the blessings of COVID. Well, you know, but back in those days... All right, we're going to go to our first break.

Right now. And once again, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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We are discussing child-on-child sexual abuse, responding in the context of the local church. Our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We do have an anonymous listener who wants to know, perhaps you can tell us now when it is a crime for such activity to be involved with children that would require us just to inform parents and not necessarily the police.

I think what she or he is asking is, when is it a crime? It's when you're involving children, when you're involving prepubescent children. It would be extremely wise for pastors and elders.

And deacons to become familiar with these facts, even if nothing is occurring in the church right.

Now that they know of. That organization has proven to be very valuable for me, not only to.

Get guests for fascinating interviews, but to be of help to the body of Christ facing all kinds of issues. I will hopefully have that website handy for our listeners as well to announce. So tell us, what does care look like for the families involved in the midst of a crisis like.

This? That's a great question. Who knows about this? Now, other than the children involved.

Themselves, who are other victims involved in this that we might not even immediately think of?

Abused. When we come back from the break, the midway break, I'd like you to think about plans.

That our listeners should be informed about that should be put in place to protect other children from being victims. And this is our midway break, folks. And as you know, if you listen to this show every day, the midway break is longer than the other breaks in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them to localize this show to Lake City, Florida, geographically.

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As always, give us your first name, city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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