Promises Of Paulovitz Examined

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2 verse 5 where the Apostle Paul said, "...but we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.".

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. Steve Cooley, good to see you, good to be seen. Hey, that's my line. I know it is. How do I know you?

How old are those glasses? They seem pretty new. Since the summer. So, probably three months.

I thought the devil wears Prada. I don't know if they're Prada. Let me see what they are. Oh, it's New England. It'd be Prader. These are Exalto. He is Exalto the...

Exalto. You know, I like those knives. They work really well. They're sharp. That's exacto. You're just like a degree off of a true northerner.

I'm looking outside and I see about 15 wild turkeys.

Couldn't drag me away. And we're not talking about whiskey, if you know what I'm saying. I know. Seriously.

A Blog Post About Gay Children and Christian Parenting

So, Steve, floating around the internet, I think that's now called It's Gone Viral. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. Is a pastor who wrote a blog and it's entitled, If I Have Gay Children, four promises from a Christian pastor slash parent.

And he is the pastor of a house church community, it says. Okay. Let's put those three together. He's the pastor of a house. He's a pastor of a church. He's a pastor of a community. Well, it's getting bigger.

He's a pastor of a house church, a church community, a house community. He's a pastor of a state. He's a pastor of a nation. He's a pastor. Now, here's what it's called. You know, you can learn a lot about churches based on what they're called, eagles wings.

What would that usually be? That'd be OPC church, right?

I was thinking it's some kind of whacked out deal.

So, okay. Remember that old website, Steve? And it said, if you'd like to name your church, it was an engine to help you pick names. And so you would say what you were, that is like Baptistic, charismatic, and it would pick a name for you.

And they were hilarious. Maybe we should do that. Eagles nest, wings floating. And now, you know. Floating in the sky Bible church. And now, you know, with all the emergent stuff, you know, Verve, Awake, Arise.

Orange juice. Catalyst. Where do all those names come from? Okay. All right. It's called North Wake House Church.

North Wake House. Well, it isn't in Carolina? Probably. So, North Carolina, Wake Forest, you know, maybe. Oh, you know what?

Maybe. And he's also a volunteer at the North Raleigh Community Church in his spare time.

So he's in two churches then.

He is. He's bivocational, I think. So, Steve. By membership yield. Uh-huh. Now, Steve, before you look at the article in detail, because I've glanced through it and you haven't, and we're too busy solving problems of the world here at the church and oil problems and everything else and sweeping problems.

If one of your children, you have three kids. If one of them were to say to you, and of course, two are married now, and no, three married. All three married. Yeah, yeah. But if one were to say to you, Dad.

And they're all married to people of the opposite sex. Yes.

Who've always been of the opposite sex. If you're going to counsel someone, let's make it easy. And they said, you know, my kid just told me that he's homosexual. How do I treat them? What do I do? What do I walk?

How do I walk through this in a biblical fashion? Without even reading this, what would you end up saying?

The Gospel, Sanctification, and Vice Lists

Well, I wind up saying, you know, I'm going to tell you the same thing as if you told me my child is an alcoholic or a drug addict or whatever kind of sin they're involved in. That's pernicious. I mean, we're not, we're not talking about, you know, my child got caught jaywalking.

You know, my child was skateboarding in a no skates boarding zone. I mean, these are serious, to use a word, lifestyle type sins that that are systemic and they're a pattern of life and they drag a person deeper and deeper into sin.

So, you know, how do you counsel somebody like that? Well, you want at every possible turn to say, listen, the gospel is sufficient. The gospel can save your child, whatever sin they're involved in, and can transform them.

The power of Christ can do that. And so, you know, I mean, I'd spend more time in it, but that's the gist of it. You know, you just have to walk through the issue biblically and think about it biblically.

Steve, I like what you said about what is termed vice list sins, 1 Corinthians 6, Galatians 5, other places where Paul lists sins that are so recurrent in the life of the person that they describe the person, that they show that the person lives an unrighteous lifestyle.

Therefore, Paul and the other writers would say, you can't call yourself a Christian. You shouldn't call yourself a Christian because of these lifestyle sins that so dominate. Because remember 1 Corinthians 6, it used to be like this, Paul said to those crazy.

People at Corinth, you know, such were some of you.

That's right. And so the gospel not only sets you as innocent in the courtroom setting, not guilty, justification no longer condemned, but it also changes you on the inside through the process of sanctification and transformation.

We hear talk these days about homosexual Christians or what they might want to term as gay Christians or whatever. Well, we might as well expect to read about the adulterating Christians or the addicted to gambling Christians or the drunk Christians or, you know, fill in the blank.

No, the answer is no. You know, if this is your lifestyle, the Bible says you're not, you're not a Christian.

Well, short of the unpardonable sin found in the gospels. We can talk about that in another show. Sins are forgivable. And we want to make sure that we tell people that God is a savior. No wonder Paul always is telling Timothy and Titus, his mentor, his protégés.

Protégés. I needed that. That was very good. Thank you. You're very welcome. I often say to myself, where's Steve when I need him? I often say to myself, and so Paul talks about God as a savior. And so we want to acknowledge, of course, up front that it's a forgivable sin, but it is pushed so much by society today.

It is the flashpoint in society that now people are thinking that it's righteous. It is a righteous behavior. That is the message that's being pushed upon us.

Well, God don't make no junk. And you know, the implication is that God created people as homosexuals and that they're only acting accordingly as God created them. Therefore, there's no sin. Well, this is just an unbiblical concept.

We wouldn't see that anywhere in scripture. In fact, it condemns homosexual activity. So it's pretty hard to say, God created me for this specific purpose when that purpose would be sin.

God does not do that. Talking to Pastor Steve today about this article written regarding if I have gay children, what would I do? Written by a man named John Pavlovitz is his name.

Wasn't he on Saturday Night Live, the pathological liar guy? No, Steve, it isn't.

This is a serious show. Okay, sorry. So, Steve, we would obviously say to people, you have to love them. Yeah. I mean, he says that on number two, if I have gay children, or number three, rather, if I have gay children, I'll love them.

Of course, you'll love them. But the thing that's missing from this article is sometimes, sooner or later, you're going to have to say, sweetheart or son, I love you and I care for you. Nothing you can tell me is going to make me unson you, undaughter you.

But part of love is telling people the truth and warning.

Well, I mean, I don't know if he addresses this, but I just, I think, you know, especially in this day and age, if your homosexual son or daughter, I really don't like the term gay, by the way, if your homosexual son or daughter invites you to his or her wedding, you know, what do you say?

You know, you're a pastor. Do you go to your, to show them that you love them, to be supportive? And, you know, I would just say absolutely not. You know, are you going to go to, I don't know, it's hard to even come up with, because we don't celebrate other lifestyle sins.

You know, imagine going to someone who says, well, I'm celebrating 40 years as a drunk. We wouldn't do that, right? I mean, so big party. I mean, VE day.

Psalm 139, the Fall, and Why Experience Cannot Overrule Scripture

So here's where the guy takes his turn down into the ditch. I understand that we as a church could be reactionary and somehow that we, generally speaking, could be mean to homosexuals or angry or something like that.

I get the love part. I want to be loving the homosexuals that I know in my life. I try to go out of my way to be kind and nice and love them. But what he says here, Steve, is really bothersome. If I have gay children, number two, I'll pray for them.

Now that's not the part that bothers me. Yeah, I like that part. It's his exposition where he says, I won't pray for them to be made normal. I've lived long enough to know that if my children are gay, that is their normal.

I won't pray that God will heal or change or fix them. I will pray for God to protect them from the ignorance and hatred and violence from No Compromise Radio.

Oh, sorry. Not quite right. Well, I know what I'd like to tell him, first of all, is when he says I've lived long enough, what he's saying is my experience supersedes the Bible.

That's exactly right. See, that's why No Compromise Radio is important. That's why we're number one on the Arbitron ratings.

Why, because our experience supersedes the Bible?

No, because it is our goal to try to get you to think in a biblical fashion. And so the world is going to throw this stuff out. I've lived long enough to know. So when he says there are going to be people that he needs to shield his children from who will curse them to hell and put them through hell, I can't curse anybody to hell.

I guess I could say it, but that's the Lord's prerogative. And it's God's heaven. And he only allows, permits, ordains, whatever word you want to use, people who are forgiven because heaven's holy, because God's holy, and there are holy requirements are given.

And so people have to tell their kids the truth.

And I'd like to change this a little bit. Let's just say that, for the sake of argument, let's say Saul of Tarsus' parents were Christians, and they were writing an article way back when on the internet.

And they said, you know, our son Saul persecutes the church, but I won't pray that God will heal or fix him, change him. I don't want God to change him because that's his normal.

Pete Steve, we need to insert Coldplay's Fix You right about now.

I mean, it's just terrible. If it's sinful, you want God to bring them to repentance. You want him to grant them repentance, as Paul writes in 2 Timothy. You want that. You don't want them to just go on their merry way.

I find it surprising, Steve, that so many people are identifying with the article and feeling sympathy, empathy, whatever kind of pathy we want. But I'm apathetic towards it, because when he says that if my kids are going to be gay, they pretty much already are.

God has already created them and wired them. And then he quotes Psalm 139. And so, like most theological problems, except this pastor ought to know better, and this pastor should be silenced, Titus chapter 1, regarding this issue, he doesn't understand the fall.

He doesn't understand that God made Adam and Eve upright. And then because of the fall, everyone is carried away by their own various lusts. We have different propensities. And your child might have homosexual propensities, yet it is still a sin.

And don't you dare blame God for that.

Well, and again, why? I mean, he might as well just say, you know what? I'll just pray that God will keep them safe during this life and then usher them straight into eternity in hell, because that's the end result.

I mean, God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked. We ought not to either, and we ought not to have any peace about it, which it seems like he's like, well, you know, I'm at peace that my son and or daughter, you know, would go to hell.

And that's not how we ought to view this at all. We ought to weep. We ought to be, again, you know, is it hard to love your child who's in a pattern of sin? Yes. Is it hard to remain close to them? Yes.

Should you give up on them? No. Should you pray for them? Yes. You know, all these things are all correct, but ultimately you have to pray for their repentance.

House Rules, Repentance, and the Problem of Experience-Based Theology

Steve, there are times that a parent needs to say to a kid, you know, with this kind of behavior, unless you repent, unless you change, unless you stop, you can't live here anymore because these are my rules.

These are house rules. And it's not because I hate you. It's because I love you and I'm trying to help you. You know, the way of the transgressor Solomon said is hard. And so these are speed bumps to try to wake you up because you need to consider your soul.

There is the eternal abyss. Here's where I have the biggest problem with this guy that calls himself a pastor. As you've been reading, you may have been rolling your eyes or licking or clicking the roof of your mouth or drafting familiar scriptures to send to me or praying for me to repent or preparing to unfriend me or writing me off as sinful, evil, hell-bound heretic.

But as with much gentleness and understanding as I can muster, I really could care less. I couldn't care less. Okay. So then why'd you blog about it? If you don't care about it and you don't care what we think, then why'd you throw this out there?

Well, what a hypocrite. He just wanted to show his humility and arrogantly saying, I don't really care what anybody thinks. Yeah.

This is right. And then he does say one thing, I guess broken clocks are right. Who knows how many times a day, this isn't about you. This is a whole lot bigger than you. And that's what I would say to him.

It is. And so I'm going to stand up for the glory of the gospel and for holiness and righteousness. And just because the whole world, it seems like is capitulating to the, you know, the age of not Aquarius, but homosexuality is righteousness.

I'm not going to do it.

I mean, it's like, blessed are those who are homosexual for they will be universally loved. I mean, this is the new kind of normal. It's not normal to be heterosexual and well-adjusted, right? I know.

Yeah.

We're the weird ones. Right. Right. So my problem is when he tries to do this emotional play, right? He doesn't do this. He doesn't say anything about scripture except, yeah, you're trying to send me the normal scripture.

But this is the one I taught to ride a bike, whose knee I scraped, whose knee scraped, knee I kissed, trembling hand I held while getting stitches. I understand that the emotional attachment between parents and children, but I also understand that this isn't about me.

It's about God and my children have eternal souls, and I want them to have forgiveness.

But you don't understand. You've just not walked a mile in my shoes. What do you know about it?

Well, I haven't walked a mile in anybody's shoes quite frankly these days. That would be very tough. I was just reading some Band of Brothers stuff and Dick Winter said he quickly learned that you get shoes that are boots, marching boots that are a little too big because when you march 118 miles into Atlanta.

Your feet are going to swell. See, you know that as an officer. So at No Compromise Radio, of course we teach homosexuality is sinful. And of course we teach it's a sin that can be forgiven. But we're especially unhappy with pastors who just run their mouth based on experience and love and all this and then say, I don't really care what you think.

Well, then you shouldn't have blogged it. I don't really care. I want you to care about what I think.

I mean, right? Is that what he's saying? I don't care what you think. I want you to care about what I think. I want you to agree with me because I am right. And you know what? Here's kind of a litmus test for you.

If the entire culture would say, oh, that's so good. If the world says that pastor's right, then I can just guarantee you he's wrong.

James 1, it tells us a little bit about this idea where we blame God for who we are. I mean, can you imagine? Let's just blame God. Right? Let's figure out a way that we can forgive God. Does God need to be forgiven?

I mean, think about that. You should see Steve's face.

Pete. Well, I mean, it's so, it's so psychological. It hurts me. You know, I mean, it's just so, so bad. Because it basically says, well, the God of the Bible, he doesn't exist. The one who does exist is fallible, makes mistakes.

And that God needs to be forgiven. Well, I guess that God probably would need to be forgiven if he existed.

Pete Steve, before I read James 1, that comment that you made reminds me, if the guy would just say, if this pastor with, you know, invisible quotation marks around him, if he would just come out, no pun intended, as a universalist, unitarian or something like that, then I would understand he's got a theology.

He's Barthian in his universalism. He's no slouch because he'll try to use a bunch of words, you know, second Corinthians chapter five and reconciling the world and blah, blah, blah. At least then I'd have some respect, but there's no respect where he just throws this out in this emotional way.

Playing on being a parent. I'm going to love them no matter what. Of course, I'm not an idiot.

God created my child to be a Satanist. And therefore, he should be a Satanist.

See, but Steve, here's what we don't want on No Compromise Radio. I don't want any critical thinking. We feel, we emote, we absorb, we empathize.

Well, I already know what the emails are going to say. Steve equated being a homosexual with being a Satanist. Well, okay. If that's what you want to say, I'm okay with that because they're both sins.

One's idolatry. The other one is idolatry of a different form. So yeah, we're fine. Go ahead and write that and, you know, accuse me of it or whatever. The bottom line is both of those sins will land a person in hell.

Both of them need to be repented of. And no parent would sit there and say, I'm okay with the fact that my son or daughter is a Satanist. No one would say that. But when it's homosexuality these days, we're just supposed to say, you know what?

It's like leaves on a tree. We all just have different colors, and we just need to show forth our colors.

Show your true colors, they'll come shining through. Steve, it says in James chapter one, let no one say when he was tempted, I'm being tempted by God. For God cannot be tempted with evil. And he himself emphatically tempts no one.

But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire or lust. And then when desire is conceived, gives birth to sin and sin when it's fully grown, it brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

Well, just thinking about that, you know, and having a law enforcement background, it made me think, you know, it's basically what James is saying is this, don't accuse God of entrapping you, of him setting the lure and you, you know, unaware of any kind of possible sin.

You just walked in there innocent as a dove. And, you know, God did that to you. The truth is we entrap ourselves. We set the lure, we focus on it. We think, oh, the consequences of that aren't so bad.

And we put God on a shelf and we go ahead and commit that sin. And that is the issue. God is not responsible. Each and every individual is responsible for their own sin.

Pete Steve, as Pilate said to Jesus, what is truth?

Pete. As Jesus said to the Father during his high priestly prayer, thy word is truth.

That's truth. Pete. So that's what we're after. We want to just go back to the Bible. What does the Bible say? Not our emotions, not anything else. What does the Bible say? Pete. Not experience.

Pete Yeah, emotions, experience. Let's figure out another E. Pete Emotions, experience, enthusiasm. Okay, that's a bad one.

Pete No, but we had the enthusiast, you know, back in the day, in the 1800s, 1900s, the enthusiast. The gospel is so great. That is to say Jesus's death on the cross. By the way, let's think about that for a second.

Okay, so Jesus on the cross dies for all the sins that all the elect would ever commit. But since these guys are saying homosexuality is righteous, he didn't have to die for any of those sins. He died for adultery and fornication and that kind of stuff.

But when it comes to homosexuality, it's actually the norm.

Pete What happens when people call evil good and good evil? Pete That's exactly right.

Calling evil good and good evil. That would bring us back in the day of Isaiah, where we don't want to do that. What God says is righteous, we believe is righteous and vice versa. So, Steve, I guess I'm not surprised by this.

I'm just surprised the guy tries to say he's a Christian pastor. I thought that name was already taken.

Pete. Well, you know, maybe it's Christian with a small C or, you know, with a very expansive view. I mean, I read people all the time who say they're Christians, but when you, if you ask them two questions, you just go, what kind of Christian are you?

You know, well, I'm the Christian who likes to make up my own doctrine, Christian. You know, you've heard it said, but I say to you, and isn't that what he says? Right? Isn't that what this man says? Pete.

That's exactly right.

This is Matthew five. Pete. You've heard it said, but I say to you, Pete. He said, I won't love them despite their sexuality. I'll love them because of it. Now, what does that mean? Pete. Okay, let's say you got straight kids.

I'm going to love you despite your heterosexuality. Pete. Despite your fornications.

I mean, you wouldn't say that, right? Yeah, my son, he's, you know, sleeping around with every girl on campus. But, you know, I love him because of his, what? You know, you're a Christian pastor. That's not, you know, you can't love.

Here's what he's saying. I love the sinner and the sin.

No. Well, there's no surprise that the gay community has run with this. It's in gay star news, all kinds of other places. Listen, we want to call righteousness, righteousness and unrighteousness. Righteousness?

No, we're not going to do it. So here's what the Bible teaches. And so you need to think biblically. And if it goes against culture, your emotions, enthusiasm or anything else, it doesn't matter.

Pete. Hope is found alone in the Word of God, in the gospel, in the perfect life, the substitutionary death and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone, gay, straight, whatever the situation is, who does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ needs to repent and believe.

Mike and Steve here, No Compromise Radio. You can write us at mike at no compromise radio. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church, firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbcchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.