March 1, 2018 Show with Tony Miano on “Tried & Convicted in an American Court for Preaching the Gospel at an Abortion Mill”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all happy Thursday on this first day of March 2018.

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I'm so delighted to have back on the air with me on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio as my guest

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Tony Miano. Tony Miano is an open air evangelist, a retired 22 -year veteran of the

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Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department from 1987 to 2007, a former gang investigator, field training officer, drug recognition expert and DWI or DUI enforcement specialist, receiver of over 60 commendations and citations for meritorious service, arrests, criminal investigations, critical decision making and community service.

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He's the 1993 Deputy of the Year for Santa Clara or Clarita, California, recipient of the

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Mothers Against Drunk Drivers Centurion Award for apprehending more than 100 drunk drivers in a 12 -month period, chaplain for the

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Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department from 2000 to 2008, founder and director of 10 four ministries from 2002 to 2008, currently serving as advisor to the ministry, and Living Waters Director of Ambassadors Alliance and director of their conferences and special projects from 2008 to the mid -2012, and writer and co -host of nearly 400 episodes of Living Waters live program

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On the Box with Ray Comfort. He's the author of Take Up the

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Shield, Should She Preach? Biblical Evangelism for Women and Cross Encounters a

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Decade of Gospel Conversations. Today we're going to be discussing tried and convicted in an

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American court for preaching the gospel at an abortion mill because that is exactly what happened very recently to Tony Miano and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Honorium Sharpens Iron Radio Tony Miano.

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Well very good to be with you Chris, thanks for having me. My pleasure and let me give our listeners our email address right away in case they have questions for you.

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Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

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Now as I indicated in our or in my introduction of you, you are an open air evangelist and by the way for some of you who are wondering why

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I went on with a very long introduction and description of my guest Tony Miano, it's because I think that it's very important that you know his pedigree because of this arrest that recently occurred.

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He is not some raving lunatic who lives in a tent in the woods and likes to harass people who disagree with his views on abortion.

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He is a minister of the gospel who seeks to rescue children from being murdered by by proclaiming the gospel to those parents who are on their way into an abortion mill to have that very thing done or to be counseled in regard to their pregnancy and this is a quite a startling thing to hear of Tony's arrest and conviction in a place that is meaning the united states of america the land of the free and the home of the brave where freedom of speech is one of the very pillars of our existence guaranteed to us in the constitution but if you could

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Tony tell us about what you do as an open air preacher and specifically what you do in that realm in regard to abortion mills.

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Sure well first and foremost I'm a member of a local church. I'm a member of Grace Fellowship Church here in Davenport, Iowa.

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Every aspect of my ministry is under the the authority of my elders in my local church.

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I'm sent out by my local church to engage in various forms of open air ministry in which abortionary ministry is one of those.

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My elders and other members of the church are on the streets with me. In fact the day that I was cited arrested outside of Planned Parenthood I was there with one of my elders and so it's very important because there's so many nomadic street evangelists out there who either have a tacit or in word only connection to their local church or they have no connection at all to the local church that I make sure to point out that I am a man under authority.

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Yes in fact you don't believe that a man should be doing even street evangelism unless not only is he a member of a bible -believing church in good standing but that his elders approve of what he's doing.

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Right now yes to a certain extent now Chris as you know every

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Christian is commanded by the word of God to be engaged in evangelism. Yes amen. We're all proclaimed we're all rather commanded to be engaged in evangelism as a way of life but for those men who are specifically called to preach the gospel in the open air to stand on a street corner or a college campus or outside of an abortuary open their bible and preach the gospel

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I believe the word of God supports that those men are sent by their local churches they are called of God and that call is affirmed by the elders of their local church and they are sent out onto the street.

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And by the way I do want before I forget in case I forget to do so later I want to give the website for the church where Tony is a member gracefellowshipqc .com

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I'm assuming that's a abbreviation for a county QC but I got well our QC is the abbreviation for Quad City oh

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Quad City okay yeah Davenport is one of the four Quad Cities here on the

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Mississippi shores of Iowa. That's gracefellowshipqc .com

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and that's the website for Grace Fellowship Church in Davenport, Iowa. I also want to in case

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I forget later I want to make sure that I give my friend Jeff Durbin a plug because of the fact that he is involved in the same type of open -air evangelism especially at abortion mills.

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Jeff Durbin of Apologia Studios and Apologia Church and Apologia TV and Apologia Radio. His website is

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ApologiaStudios .com ApologiaStudios .com and Jeff also has very recently interviewed

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Tony Miano so after this show is over of course you don't I don't want you to tune away to my show from my show but when we're finished if you want to take a look at the televised interview that Jeff had with Tony Miano you can do so but let's return to our discussion about what exactly happened when you were evangelizing outside an abortion mill with at least one of your elders right that's correct yeah the day was uh may 30th of last year 2017 it was a tuesday um our church uh up until recently our church was involved in ministry outside of three uh abortuaries i'd say up to recently because one of the abortuaries the one closest um to us closed for good at the end of 2017 praise god yeah amen it was one of three uh planned parenthoods that closed in iowa this one in particular in the city of bettendorf which is one of the quad cities the other two abortuaries we minister at are both in iowa city about 50 miles west of us also the home of the university of iowa hawkeyes and there's a planned parenthood there and there's an independent abortuary called the emma goldman clinic so on this particular day as many tuesdays which is our day to go out to uh planned parenthood elder nick roland and i were there together and we were engaged in the same kind of ministry we had been engaged in for more than a year together prior to me moving out to iowa the church had been there for a year prior to that we were on a public sidewalk we were offering tracks to pedestrians walking by we were offering gospel tracks to people coming in and out of the driveway we were calling out to those walking into the abortuary as we do every time we're out there offering the women financial support to cover medical expenses food shelter clothing we also offer to adopt their children we offer the women every conceivable kind of physical support and of course we were out there proclaiming the gospel of jesus christ there was nothing different about may 30th 2017 that nothing different from what we had done up to that point and nothing different from what we had done after that day and so on this particular day chris i was i decided it was time for me to start preaching um i the um the property is surrounded by about a um eight foot tall wooden fence and so i got up on a small stepstool so i could see over the fence again i was on a public sidewalk um i was not using amplification we've never used amplification at that location and i opened up my bible and i began to read a series of scripture verses that i read just about every time i'm at an abortuary before i preach the gospel about six minutes into that reading a police officer arrived and that wasn't unusual the facility had called the police before and the police had come police saw what we were doing gave us the usual admonitions don't block the sidewalk don't block the driveway don't threaten anybody uh they the same thing they would say all the time of course and we never do any of those things we don't block the public sidewalk we don't stand in the driveway um we don't trespass on the property we don't prevent anyone's uh ingress or egress into the building we certainly aren't out there threatening people we're offering to help them and we're warning them about god's judgment because we love them as our neighbor and we're bringing to them the gospel of jesus christ for the same reason because we love them as our neighbor so it was it was the same thing we had done time and time again on this particular day and this particular officer um who would tell me and elder nick how much he appreciated what we were doing and how much he supported our efforts um issued me a citation for disorderly conduct loud and raucous noise uh likely to cause distress to people inside a public building um the officer did not go inside Planned Parenthood to talk to anybody inside the building uh the officer looked at uh a brief video of off the security guard cell phone and on that basis and that basis alone he issued me the citation um which was in effect um an arrest and a field release i mean i wasn't taken to the station i was released there at the station and um and we would i stopped preaching at that point um but we continued our efforts out there finished our time out there stayed as long as we usually usually do and on january 9th of uh this year i stood trial in johnson county iowa um i demanded a jury trial and because it was considered a simple misdemeanor in iowa you are tried before a jury of six instead of the standard jury of 12 and uh after the trial which and i know we'll get into more details about that but um at the end of the trial the jury deliberated for about um a half hour 45 minutes and came back with a guilty verdict um i was sentenced to uh 30 days in the county jail the judge suspended that sentence meaning it's now being held over my head for the next year um i was placed on one year of self -probation um i paid about a 200 fine and was ordered to stay away from all planned parenthood for the next year did they lower the did they lower the fine because i thought in the recording it was like 600 well that well the uh that it was close to 700 but that was the amount i paid uh for a bond to stay the sentencing while i tried to uh find attorneys to handle an appeal on the criminal case i see um during the and i know we'll get uh to this in more detail but during the sentencing the judge equated me telling people to turn from their sin and turn to christ he equated that with cussing at them oh boy that is quite disturbing yeah so i filled out my visa today a visa application today to travel to kenya and for the first time in my life i had to add on an application that i have been convicted of a crime wow oh boy uh this is so troubling because in fact if any uh honest liberals that have an ounce of integrity are listening they should be equally troubled by this because of the fact that you have this very subjective arbitrary determination of what you did as being uh loud and raucous uh public behavior and also that you're causing distress uh to those that are hearing you now why is it that we have uh a constitutional guarantee of the freedom of speech unless some things that people were saying before we had this constitution were distressing people i mean there would there would be no need for a constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech if people were just saying things in public that the majority of people around them agreed with i'm not understanding that uh concept of the of the whole uh issue here well you know and and chris you know that during the during the sentencing as i as i think your audience will hear here in a bit um during the sentencing you know the judge said that i was allowed to say what i wanted to say up to a point and and and so and so this this this lower court magistrate in johnson county iowa basically rewrote the first amendment during my sentencing hearing saying that i could say what i wanted to up to a point um and the point was that people didn't like it that people were offended by it that people were disturbed by it which is why the first amendment um was became law in the first place not to protect people um from speech but to protect people who are speaking in ways that other people don't like now uh why you have to just wonder why the multitude of leftist marches and protests uh why all of those people involved in those public activities aren't rounded up and arrested uh for saying even things as horrific as you know kill the pigs and fry them up and you know you could go on and on with all kinds of leftist rhetoric that is shouted and obviously intended to intimidate if not horrify people let alone give them distress and yet not a thing is done to them in fact you'll see very often police protecting them at a barricade uh at such types of public demonstrations there is obviously a real double standard here it's pretty frightening well and you know you know chris um the prosecution made sure to tell the jury over and over again that i was not being tried for what i said but the way i said it but yet the again the judge equated the content of my speech with cussing at people and it was at that moment chris that i really began to rejoice because the judge made it abundantly clear that i was on trial not because of the volume of my voice or even so much that i was at an abortion clinic although that was certainly part of it but the main reason i was being tried and convicted was because i was preaching about jesus christ yes and preaching the gospel is equivalent to swearing at people according to this judge that's right and can you imagine him saying that if you were a muslim yeah well i would i i you know what chris i don't believe i ever would have seen the inside of a courtroom if i was of any other religious persuasion other than a follower of jesus christ yeah i uh seriously doubt it also uh we're going to take an early break right now for our first break and then when we return we're going to be playing the 22 minute audio uh that is available by the way at sermonaudio .com

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if you go to sermonaudio .com and you type in the search engine either miyano m as in michael ia n as in nancy o or you type in state of iowa v as in versus anthony miyano you'll find this audio but when we come back from the break we are going to play this because this is a recording of what took place in the courtroom now the first voice that we hear who called you to the stand that was that the uh prosecuting attorney uh no that would have that was my attorney okay yeah i um yeah we could set it up more after the break if you'd like yeah and then then we also of course you're the judge but yeah we could set it up when we return from the break okay great and if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for tony miyano our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com please give us your first name at least your city and state and country of residence if you live outside the usa and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and we could obviously understand that a theme like this would lend itself to people wanting to remain anonymous for some reason or another especially if they're involved in some kind of abortion or abortion mill evangelism but uh again that's chris arnzen at gmail .com

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com so unless you're remaining anonymous for a personal and private matter give us your first name city and state and country of residence don't go away we'll be right back with tony miyano tired of box store christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship and how about the preaching perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from long island well there's good news wedding river baptist church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of god's word and this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us

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forward slash iron sharpens today hi i'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune into a visit to the pastor's study every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m

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we bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions our time will be lively useful and i assure you never dull join us this saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor charles heddon's virgin once said give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read he who never quotes will never be quoted he will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own you need to read solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart the mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world since it's beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting books for all ages we invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

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that's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio and i want to thank all of you who have been purchasing many many books from our sponsors at solid ground christian books solid -ground -books .com

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and mike gaydosh has been giving me reports very long reports of with lengthy lengthy lists of people who are discovering solid ground christian books from iron sharpens iron radio and purchasing from him in fact he said he got a very extremely large order recently as a result of an iron sharpens iron radio listener sometimes i'm on the phone with him for five minutes and all he's doing is reading me names of new customers i thank you so much for doing that and i thank you also for letting him know that you're hearing about solid ground christian books on iron sharpens iron radio and i have an announcement to make from solid ground christian books after a decade solid -ground -books .com

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is doing manton once again as a result of the encouragement of several brethren over the past few years solid ground christian books is seeking to do a second printing of the complete works of thomas manton in 22 hardcover volumes their intention is to match the high quality of the first edition that they completed 10 years ago and this spring it will be 10 years and charles haddon spurgeon called these volumes a mountain of sound theology now get a load of this the list price for the set is a thousand dollars but solid ground christian books is offering a 70 percent discount at 299 .95

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and they will not charge anything until the books go to print they cannot begin that process until enough orders come in so that's the the caveat there so even though you're going to be placing your order you're not going to be charged until the books are actually in print but they need your order before they're in print so please go to solid -ground -books .com

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solid -ground -books .com and make sure you get the pre -order of the complete works of thomas manton and 22 hardcover volumes and please tell mike gadosh founder and director of solid ground christian books that you heard about them from chris arnzen and iron sharpens iron radio and i know that our guest is also a mutual friend of our beloved brother mike gadosh in fact solid ground christian books published the most recent book by tony miyano cross encounters a decade of gospel conversations in fact why don't you just briefly tell our listeners about that book even though we've already interviewed you on that for two hours i believe uh why don't you give our listeners a summary of that book sure yeah and and the summary is really in the title it is uh uh it is a book patterned uh after a pastor's sketches um written by ichabod spencer i was introduced to that book uh by solid ground christian books by our good friend michael gadosh and it is it is one of my all -time favorite books outside the bible and uh like with that book uh obviously to a lesser extent is mine um my book simply chronicles um and uh the dialogues i've had with people um about the gospel in different uh environments different circumstances whether on an airplane or outside of an abortuary on a college campus um wherever it may be while i'm out doing sign evangelism or crosswalking or um and so some of the more memorable conversations i've had over the last decade or so are chronicled in the book and then interspersed among those stories are are practical chapters uh how -to chapters regarding uh evangelism and uh you know uh michael uh our brother michael i mean he did he did more than publish my book he really shepherded me through that process i mean it wasn't it wasn't simply a business arrangement between us to publish a book uh but it was really a spiritual endeavor for both of us and and uh you know you mentioned you mentioned uh the uh upcoming uh public republication of mantons um the the manton volumes and you know with them retailing at a thousand dollars and him offering them for seventy percent less you know michael's one of those publishers who really is in the business of publishing new and classic works for the glory of god for the love of christ for the love of the church for the love of the law and not for the love of money and yeah and of course this isn't a new work uh it's uh centuries old but right but it is a work that is new to many right and i'm sure that there are not many in fact there might not be any listeners in our audience but there there could be a few that have the 22 hardcover volumes of this uh giant of of theology that even and and you know chris we we need publishers like mike gadosh who are introducing today's generation to the wealth of theological riches from generations past um people like manton and other puritans and and and the uh you know ichabod spencer ichabod spence not only is mike published um ichabod spencer's uh you know a pastor a pastor sketches but he's also um published all of spencer's sermons as well yes that was definitely a name that was even though he uh lived uh i believe ichabod spencer was the 19th century correct right yeah yeah even though he lived in the 19th century he was a very new name to scores of people even very well -read studied pastors and scholars had not heard of ichabod spencer until mike gadosh reprinted his works yeah and and to his contemporaries he was known as the bunion of brooklyn that's right and uh and so that's how highly he was regarded by his contemporaries and it's because of publishers like michael gadosh that people today are being introduced um to these to these names that uh without publishers like michael gadosh would just fade away in antiquity and then we'll remember that website which is uh let's see the website is solid -ground -books .com

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solid -ground -books .com i did not forget mike's website i was distracted by an email that came in with a question for tony which we will get to at some point but uh that's where i i remain i went into dead air there for a second but uh well tony we are going to be playing this uh sermon audio clip of the uh your defense attorney uh having you cross -examined on this on the stand and then we're going to have the judge sentencing you in this recording uh that is available on sermon audio but i want you to set up the uh the recording for us sure um the recording that folks are going to hear is the entirety of my testimony and the entirety of the judge's sentencing now prior to my testimony the prosecutor had present uh two lady prosecutors had presented their case in chief they called three witnesses to the stand they called the arresting officer they called his assisting officer and they called the security guard for Planned Parenthood all three of the men testified that i was not threatening anyone that i was not swearing at anyone that i was not uncooperative or impolite um that i was professional in my demeanor even the security guard who quite frankly hates my gut all of them all of them testified that i was behaving well that i wasn't threatening anyone that i wasn't using amplification as to causing distress to the people inside Planned Parenthood the only testimony the jury heard and the foreman of the jury would turn out to be a friend of the prosecutor the the only testimony the jury heard as to distress of the people in the building was the security guard saying that that he overheard a couple of people talking about what i was doing with no details and that he saw a couple of people squirming in their seats and it was on that testimony alone no direct testimony from anyone who was actually uh you know there being distressed by me reading the bible no no quote -unquote victims testified to being distressed it was on that testimony alone um that the that the jury found me that the jury found me guilty so so prior to obviously prior to the sentencing once the prosecution rested it was now the defense's opportunity to present a case now we were left at with the decision to make uh neither i nor my two attorneys believed that they that they presented a prima facie case that the that the elements of the crime were not there uh in the testimony so there wasn't a uh there wasn't a um legal tactical reason for me to testify in my own defense as you know chris in our country there is a fifth amendment um that someone cannot be compelled to testify against themselves right and jeff durbin actually informed me that that's actually based on biblical law from the old covenant yeah exactly right that's true um but i wanted i wanted the judge the jury the prosecutors uh the few people other than uh my you know my elders and my family and a few people from the church who came to support me but there were a few curious onlookers including including at least one or two people who were not selected for the jury stayed to hear the case i wanted them to hear the gospel and the only way they were going to hear the gospel is if i took the stand and testified and so that that brings us to the point of the first voice you'll hear in the audio um is my primary attorney jack edwards who uh is out of um wyoming saw the video of my arrest on youtube contacted me and offered his services pro bono for yeah amen and um and so he calls me to the stand you will hear me testify and once i finish testifying um then the uh audio picks up after i have been found guilty after the jury has been released and the judge is imposing sentences okay well here is that recording from the courtroom that is available on sermon audio okay um let the record reflect that we are present in johnson county cause number 06521 sm sm 105 568 my name is edward lep it is uh january 9 2017 it's about 1 17 in the afternoon this is uh the state has already rested uh this is the state of iowa versus anthony edward giano uh the state has rested it's now a tremendous opportunity to present uh any evidence if they choose to do so thank you your honor i would call to the stand uh mr mia anthony mia sir if you please watch your step as you come forward and before you have a seat please raise your right hand you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth i do please have a seat good afternoon sir can you please state your name for the record anthony edward miyano uh mr miyano uh you're the defendant in this case yes and where do you currently live what town davenport iowa could you tell us about any training or education you have received uh uh in terms of um have you attended any academies or trainings of that nature yes in 1987 i attended the los angeles county sheriff's department academy and in the years 1999 to 2000 i attended the master's seminar in southern california and i've had hundreds of hours of both law enforcement and pastoral training did you successfully complete your training with the los angeles sheriff's office i did and upon completing the training what position did you assume deputy sheriff of the county of los angeles at that time were you uh appointed or assigned to be a chaplain that would be later in my career the last eight years of my career were spent as both a deputy and a chaplain okay did you join the sheriff's office to become a chaplain no i did not why did you become a chaplain i became a chaplain because during the first year of my law enforcement career jesus christ saved me took my heart of stone gave me a heart of flesh brought me to the realization that i had sinned against the holy god and that i was due the punishment owed me for that sin and that was eternity in hell a sergeant on the department explained to me the gospel that two thousand years ago god the father sent his son to earth in the person of jesus christ fully god and fully man without sin born of a virgin as the prophet isaiah declared more than 700 years before his birth as god in the flesh he lived a perfect life and thought we're in need and at a time appointed before the foundation of the world he voluntarily went to a roman cross suffered and died a death he did not deserve to take upon himself the punishment i rightly deserve for my sins against god and then forever defeated sin and death when he rose from the grave and it was at hearing that gospel message that i realized that i was not right before god that his wrath was upon me and by his grace and his mercy and his love he caused me to be born again and he gave me the gifts of repentance and faith in christ and so at that point my entire life changed i continued to serve as a deputy sheriff but my focus on that department was not only enforcing the laws but to ministering the gospel to my brothers and sisters behind the bat did you receive any training pertinent to that appointment as a chaplain yes yes i uh um i received hundreds of hours of in -service training regarding the chaplaincy uh critical incident stress debriefing uh was a good portion of that i was the on -scene chaplain for 10 of our department's line of duty deaths so i spearheaded the ministerial work for those affected by those including the department members family members did you ever uh do for lack of better words non -uniform ministry work did you ever start that at some point in time yes i uh planted and pastored pico canyon community church in valencia california from 1999 to 2002 i've served as an elder in multiple churches i served with an evangelistic ministry known as living waters in belfort california from 2008 through 2012 and i have been in full -time christian ministry in one aspect or another since 1999 you retired from the yes in 2007 okay and you now are a member of which church griggs fellowship church and as a result of that church has that church um authorized you to engage in ministry yes i am under the authority of the three elders in my church as far as my ministerial work on the streets outside the church i am accountable to those three men and they do send me out onto the streets to minister the gospel in a number of different ways as kind of a a side note um i take note of your voice when i first met you um have you ever uh been uh for lack of better words uh on television shows radio shows or have had any uh activity you know using your what i would call talents yes i've hosted a live radio program on a christian radio station in los angeles i wrote and co -hosted more than 400 live uh broadcasts online when i was with living waters and i've also shepherded multiple radio programs online have you authored any books yes i've offered three three books all within the realm of christian literature do you recall uh the events on may 30th 2017 that have been discussed here today yes i do and uh were you uh present uh at the the planned parents on orchard street yes i was on that date and time that has been discussed about 10 a .m

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yes did it why were you there well as a follower of jesus christ the two greatest commandments in my christian faith from god are to love the lord my god with all of my heart soul mind and strength and to love my neighbor as myself and there is no greater way that i can show my love for god than by telling other people about him through faith in christ and there's no greater love i can show to other human beings than to point them to jesus christ for the forgiveness of their sins and salvation were you standing uh on a uh a footstool on the sidewalk that day at the time of question yes okay what uh were you doing um immediately before the police arrived you recall that yes i was reading scripture verses from my book okay um were you doing anything other than reading scripture verses i had a momentary interaction with a couple walking into the plan where i leave um i asked them not to go inside and called them to turn to christ were you speaking in a volume louder than you are right now most definitely and why were you doing that because i wanted the people inside the building to hear me were you intending to distress these people no on the contrary i was trying to bring them peace i was trying to bring hope i was trying to explain to them that there was hope for them in jesus christ that there was forgiveness of sin that was my purpose for being there were you trying to create a ruckus on that day no i was not i don't have any further questions for you right now sir thank you you know mr miyano i can uh certainly appreciate your request for a deferred judgment um to my knowledge and to what the states tell me you have no prior record and you've you know lived your life uh you know you've been in service as a sheriff's deputy you know now devoted your life to the ministry um and certainly those things would argue for deferred judgment but i would think as a officer former officer of the law having been warned that your activity was disruptive causing distress to people inside Planned Parenthood having at one point sworn to uphold the law and having you know been told that and you know having concern for others as i think the minister would that the last thing you would do is go back and not just go back but just go back and continue to talk in a volume loud enough to cause distress to the people inside and you know you weren't just standing there i think with a placard you were standing there peering over the bushes doing it in such a way that you can direct your words towards the people in Planned Parenthood even so far as to try and talk people into not going in and telling them that they should turn their lives over to Christ um and you know i can appreciate you know your attorney's argument that you know you didn't use any kind of swear words you didn't you know call anybody you know use abusive epithets and stuff like that um i'm not sure i entirely agree with that you know people that are going into Planned Parenthood okay you don't have to drop an f -bomb or you don't have to call them other curse words as we would know about it but essentially telling them that they're sinners and that they should seek forgiveness for their sins i can certainly see where that would be equally as offensive to people and i'm not sure i put a whole lot of i'm not sure i distinguish the two necessarily you know i think some people would rather be called certain curse words than be told that they're a sinner that they should be forgiveness for whatever they're doing there's people calling in there for medical care i understand you're there and you're protesting abortion and you're you've got the right to say what you want and do that but you don't so it can go too far and that's what the disorderly conduct statute does that and you can't cause distress i mean it's not just people going in there for abortion they provide other health care to people and most people should be able to go in there and and not be caused unreasonable distress but having been despite having been warned you kind of believe that your agenda took precedent over that you know you weren't just standing out there with a placard that said you know i mean you see them all the time in town you know there's photographs and there's placards and there's anti -abortion signs and that's fine but you put your agenda above everybody else's and you know that doesn't strike me as being very ministerial at all and the fact that you went back there knowing you shouldn't that doesn't qualify that doesn't strike me as somebody that's worthy of a deferred judgment a deferred judgment you know you you make a mistake and you're hey okay i come in i made a mistake you know i understand my mistake and it won't happen again i think the evidence has shown that's not the case with you my biggest concern about what to do is what kind of sentence to fashion is is what's going to get your attention to not do this type of activity again i would hope that a police officer come to the scene i think several times anyway and warning you about doing it at least that's what the evidence showed that there were several times that they had come out and warned you that that would have been sufficient you know and i'm really kind of so that's where i'm at is what sentence is going to best prevent you from doing that you know i think 30 days suspended as you know that the state is asking oh the question in my mind is is do i suspend all 30 days or do i make you go over the jail and serve a couple days to give you some indication that this that you know we're serious about this because warning you once or twice or however many times it was but more than once wasn't enough but i think what i am willing to do is i am hopeful that essentially giving you 30 days and suspending all of it so you don't have don't need to go to jail today you just will have essentially that threat of jail that hammer over your head that's basically says to you that if you violate the law again then you're going to have to come back in and do 30 days i hope that that would be a sufficient warning to you so i think the state's uh recommendation in this case is reasonable i will sentence you to serve 30 days in jail i will suspend all 30 days of that sentence i'm going to order you to pay a hundred dollar fine with surcharge and court costs whether it be a 35 surcharge and i'm not sure what the jury costs will be the conditions of probation are that you have no new law violations and that you have no contact with anyone at Planned Parenthood or any

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Planned Parenthoods and that's not just here in johnson county that would be anywhere wow well we are going to discuss that recording that you just heard when we come back from our midway break keep in mind that this is our longer than normal break that grace life radio 90 .1

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fm in lake city florida requires of us we need to have a 12 -minute break between our two -hour session so please be patient as we go to that break and take this time to write questions also take time to write down the information of our advertisers because we do want you to patronize them but don't go away god willing we will be back with tony miano and more of our discussion right after these messages from our sponsors iron sharpens iron welcomes solid rock remodeling to our family of sponsors serving south central pennsylvania solid rock remodeling is focused on discovering understanding and exceeding your expectations they deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results solid rock remodeling offers a full range of home renovations including kitchen and bath remodeling decks porches windows and doors roof and siding and more for a clear detailed professional estimate call this trustworthy team of problem solvers who provide superior results that stand the test of time call solid rock remodeling at 717 -697 -1981 717 -697 -1981 or visit solidrockremodeling .com

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that's solidrockremodeling .com solid rock remodeling bringing new life to your home every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions coffee shops and local hangouts long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need jesus we are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island new york by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following christ long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959 we have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call long island youth for christ at 631 -385 -8333 that's 631 -385 -8333 or visit liyfc .org

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and click support at the top of the page but most importantly keep iron sharpens iron radio in your prayers we hope that iron sharpens iron radio blesses you for many years to come chef exclusive catering is in south central pennsylvania chef exclusives goal is to provide a dining experience that is sure to please any palate chef damian white of chef exclusive is a graduate of the renowned johnson and wales university with a degree in culinary arts and applied science chef exclusive catering's event center is newly designed with elegance and style and is available for small office gatherings bridal showers engagement parties and rehearsal dinners critics and guests alike acknowledge chef exclusives commitment to exceeding even the highest expectations i know of their quality firsthand since chef exclusive catered by most recent iron sharpens iron radio pastor's luncheon for details call 717 -388 -3000 that's 717 -388 -3000 or visit chef exclusive .com

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that's chef exclusive .com paul wrote to the church at galatia for am i now seeking the approval of man or of god or am i trying to please man if i were still trying to please man i would not be a servant of christ hi i'm mark lucans pastor of providence baptist church we are a reformed baptist church and we hold to the london baptist confession of faith of 1689 we are in nofolk massachusetts we strive to reflect paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how god views what we say and what we do than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity but since that wasn't the apostles priority it must not be ours either we believe by god's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of christ in truth and love if you live near nofolk massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship you can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our tv program entitled resting in grace you can find us at providence baptist church ma .org

01:05:57

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we bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions our time will be lively useful and i assure you never dull join us this saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor tired of box store christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship and how about the preaching perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from long island well there's good news wedding river baptist church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of god's word and this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us

01:07:29

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at their toll -free number 800 -656 -0231 800 -656 -0231 they typically man that phone line monday through friday between 10 a .m

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and 4 30 p .m eastern time and that's 800 -656 -0231 mention iron sharpens iron radio and you will get free shipping on any order fifty dollars or more and you'll also get on any order fifty dollars or more when you mention iron sharpens iron radio a free book sinclair ferguson's book faithful god an exposition of the book of ruth and that is a retail value of fourteen dollars you'll get that absolutely free of charge by mentioning iron sharpens iron radio when you order fifty dollars or more worth of merchandise before i return to our guest today uh tony miyano we just have a couple of announcements to make uh our friends at the alliance of confessing evangelicals are having their annual philadelphia conference on reform theology it's being held at two locations neither one of them philadelphia that is just an affectionate term that they have for the conference since it is named after the the long -standing conferences held by the late james montgomery boyce at 10th presbyterian church in philadelphia pennsylvania but now the locations will be from april 13th through the 15th at first christian reform church in byron center michigan and from april 27th through the 29th at the proclamation presbyterian church in brinmar pennsylvania a little closer to philadelphia and the speakers include daniel aiken richard gaffin daniel hyde the greatest preacher on the planet earth alive today conrad mbaywe who is a man you do not want to miss an opportunity to hear him preach and to see him preach he is pastor of kabwatha baptist church in lusaka zambia africa an extraordinary preacher conrad richard phillips who's also a friend of mine a pastor of second presbyterian church in greenville south carolina jonathan master who has also been a guest on iron trip and zion radio david murray who's also been a guest here and scott oliphant who i'm looking forward to interviewing and hopefully that will come about soon if you'd like to register for the philadelphia conference on reform theology for either the byron center michigan location or the brinmar pennsylvania location or both go to alliancenet .org

01:12:18

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and click support if you want to advertise with us as long as whatever it is you're advertising is compatible with what we believe here on iron sharpens iron radio you don't have to believe identically with me but whatever it is you are promoting needs to be compatible with what we believe here and of course there are some things that are religiously neutral like restaurants and shoe stores and a whole bunch of other things that have no theological import you have a lot more leeway with that but if it has any theological content it must be compatible with what we believe here send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:14:49

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line we would love to launch an ad campaign with you because we surely do need the advertising dollars and now we are back with tony miyano our guest today he is an open air evangelist and retired 22 year veteran of the los angeles county sheriff's department we are discussing today uh tony's being tried and convicted in an american court for preaching the gospel at an abortion mill and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:15:23

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the usa and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter uh tony that was some uh pretty frightening things that we heard and fright when i say frightening of course there are brothers and sisters in christ who are persecuted in far more grotesque and terrifying ways in other parts of the globe people who are you know being burned alive and and crucified just as our lord was and as the new testament saints very often were but it is it is frightening because of the fact that we live in a constitutional republic where we are supposed to have freedoms especially in regard to our freedom of speech and religion primary reasons that this uh nation was even founded and when you hear a judge saying that one of the reasons that you were arrested and and convicted was that telling people that they are sinners and need to repent is offensive well yeah that that's that's certainly true your honor that's one of the reasons the pharisees called out for the death of christ and why many of his followers were also martyred was that very reason so we can give him that yes that's true but are you supposed to be fined arrested and imprisoned for that in this country that we live in if you could comment on that yeah well um i'm glad you brought up chris that what i experienced in johnson county iowa pales in comparison uh to what other brothers and sisters in christ are are facing by way of persecution in other parts of the world my my experience though i think important um to uh the future of street evangelism ministry and and freedoms for christian in this country truly is a momentary light affliction when compared to the uh the persecution and and full -on martyrdom that some of our brothers and sisters are facing but yes as you well pointed out um you and i were raised to believe that the bill of rights actually stood for something that uh the uh first amendment was actually a protection of speech not a protection from speech and as i mentioned earlier in the program before you played the audio in one fell swoop this uh lower court magistrate basically rescinded the first amendment yeah and uh another thing that he said critical of you was that you were putting your agenda above everyone else's now public orderly protest the word protest means something um these are things that have been going on even before our nation began and and since those things were constitutional constitutionally protected that we are free to protest many things if not all things as long as we do so orderly and peacefully um but everybody that is protesting something in public and in essence you were protesting the fact that people were going into an abortuary to murder their unborn children uh but doesn't that always entail in some sense that you're putting your agenda which you believe is god's agenda above everyone else's well yeah and it it was surprising i mean it was surprising and not at the same time but this judge is our age chris um from a generation where uh moral neutrality wasn't the the call of the day but yeah it was it was remarkable that the judge would would say that because i hold a particular position i'm putting i'm putting my agenda above others as if that was somehow a bad thing and as you and as you well stated that anybody who holds any kind of position by default are putting their position over the position of others but when he said that chris i admit it the lord gave me what i would call commendable restraint throughout uh the sentencing process i noticed from the audio i noticed from the audio that was true um but when he said hey you're putting your agenda above others i just wanted to shout amen the gospel of jesus christ is over and above the agenda of men any agenda of men the gospel of jesus christ reigns supreme now this this one was a real kick in the head um because of the fact that you let people know of their lost or disobedient or rebellious or sinful condition and that you let them know that they need to repent and come to christ that's not very ministerial of you tony um can you imagine him saying if if a muslim cleric was on the stand and he said to that muslim cleric that doesn't sound like a being a very good imam to me uh can you imagine that happened in the 21st century that is yeah i i would think that some uh ethics committee some judicial ethics community a committee would bring him up on charges for uh for saying uh that about uh about another religion but the reality is it jesus what jesus said was true men are going to hate you because of me and and again chris in that in that i rejoice look you know um i quite frankly i'm i'm more concerned about about the heart of a little girl in church who has to put her cat down tonight than i am about what the judge did to me um whether whether the judge um you know gave me a 30 -day suspended sentence or he sent me to jail for 30 days that means the lord in his providence simply one wants me to have a jail ministry for 30 days look i'm i'm i'm not jesus christ i don't have a martyr complex um but what what jesus said the pilot applies to applies to this judge in johnson county as well he would have no authority whatsoever unless it was given to him from above my concern chris in all of this uh isn't about isn't my conviction my criminal conviction as much as the precedent it sets and how my case can be used now as case law against other christians and so i want to do whatever i can to keep that from happening yeah and i'm going to reiterate here uh that liberals with integrity and there are such things as classical liberals who who are not leftists they're not leftist totalitarians as many who call themselves liberals today really are they're not real liberals because liberals historically just wanted to have an equal voice among others in the public square they they uh were not trying to be dictatorial or tyrannical in their views as today's so -called liberals are at least in in the political arena it seems in their majority and those who are media pundits and so forth they are really leftists uh and uh totalitarian leftists but you would think that liberals would even be alarmed by this uh unless it is just because they know that a big brother is not going to persecute them in this day and age as they would someone with a conservative voice but you know liberals are are known the hallmark of a liberal's existence is public protest doing something that rubs against the grain of of uh the powers that be and you would think that an honest liberal with integrity would if he heard about what was going on with you would be like wait a minute that's scary for even us because that that is just more uh signs that uh this uh nation may wind up throwing us in prison as well for something that we may say or do in fact as you know tony there are liberals in conflict with each other today uh it seems that for instance feminism trumps race at least in many indications of it uh that someone who is even a a black brother or a black individual whether or not he's a brother in christ or not uh if he's a male he may be more likely to be fired or fined for saying something that's viewed as misogynistic uh so even even liberals uh are starting to feel the sting of of uh the leftist totalitarian ideology by their own former comrades in struggle if you follow what i'm saying you know i'm making sense here yeah yeah well their worldview their worldview is self -destructing their worldview is imploding um i i just saw a story on the news where um a high school girl who is uh part of the wrestling team yeah is is uh taking steroids to transition into pretending to be a man yeah and she's allowed to continue to wrestle against girls while she's doped up on steroids while the other girls can't take those drugs yeah on the chain of hierarchy you have there the so -called lgbtq community trumping the feminist right exactly in uh in brazil there is a man who who couldn't make the i guess the male volleyball teams and so now he's going to pretend to be a woman and he's breaking records in his fourth game he's already broken several records in women's volleyball so what the feminists so what the feminists have done is they have destroyed themselves women's athletics are now irrelevant yep because men because men who can't play with the big boys can now break records in in the women's league yes and of course go ahead i'm sorry yeah again i was just gonna say they're uh because of their hatred for god because of their denial of truth and natural order all created by god they are seeing the self -destruction of their worldview yes and of course feminists have for decades uh described many if not all men as sexual predators and now men are given the freedom to wander into their restrooms right uh because of the lgbtq agenda trumping the feminist one so that right there you have all kinds of of uh infighting there and uh you wonder how it's going to explode um but uh we we have to go to our final break it's going to be a real brief one not nearly as long as the last one and when we return we'll take some of our listener questions for you uh and we'll have you also uh summarize anything that you want to summarize from the recording that we heard of the uh the courtroom proceedings in regard to your conviction and and sentence and so on but this is our final break if anybody wants to join us uh speak now or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time if you want to get in line with those already waiting to have their questions asked our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

01:27:59

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa don't go away we'll be right back with tony miyano linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a sunday worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be call linbrook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

01:28:56

that's linbrookbaptist .org have you been blessed by iron sharpens iron radio we remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you there are four ways you can help first do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on iron sharpens iron radio second whenever possible purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise and then let them know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio thirdly you can also donate to iron sharpens iron radio by going to our website at ironsharpensironradio .com

01:29:39

and click support at the top of the page but most importantly keep iron sharpens iron radio in your prayers we hope that iron sharpens iron radio blesses you for many years to come hi i'm pastor bill shishkoe inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m

01:30:04

eastern time on wlie radio www .wlie540am .com

01:30:12

we bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions our time will be lively useful and i assure you never dull join us this saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor charles headens purge once said give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read he who never quotes will never be quoted he will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own you need to read solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart the mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting books for all ages we invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

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that's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from solid ground solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radium and don't forget you can get our guest tony miano's book cross encounters a decade of gospel conversations from solid -ground -books .com

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solid -ground -books .com and you could also pre -order the complete works of thomas manton and 22 hardcover volumes and remember charles spurgeon called these volumes a mountain of sound theology the list price is a thousand dollars but solid ground christians books is offering a 70 discount at 20 i'm sorry at 299 .95

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that's 299 .95 that's 70 off if you pre -order and keep in mind your credit card is not going to be charged until the books are in print so you have no need to fear about that but they cannot go into print until they receive enough pre -orders so go to solid -ground -books .com

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solid -ground -books .com and order or pre -order those volumes today and please tell mike gadosh or continue to tell mike gadosh that you heard about solid ground christian books from chris arnson on iron sharpens iron radio now we are back with our guest tony we are discussing the fact that he was tried and convicted in an american court for preaching the gospel at an abortion mill and if you want to ask a question if you want to get in line our email address is chris arnson at gmail .com

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chris arnson at gmail .com tony if you have anything to say in summary of the recording that we just heard i'll give you that opportunity right now sure um yeah i want to reiterate to your listening audience that uh my arrest my trial my conviction uh was about the gospel of jesus christ uh i think the uh i think the uh conviction shows that i think the judge's sentencing shows that and i we i it's important we keep this in perspective that this is a gospel issue also i i want to stress to those who are listening live or who will listen later that while it is fine for us to appeal to caesar we see paul doing that we see paul on a couple of occasions um asserting his rights as a roman citizen uh to avoid uh to uh um avoid unjudicious punishment um there's nothing wrong with us and certainly here in america with us going through the legal process and demanding to be heard before caesar to write legal legal wrong but over and above that christian god has called you to die god has called you to deny yourself take up your cross and follow him whether the laws are in our favor or the laws are not in our favor whether we can go out on the street without any fear of persecution or whether sticking our head out our door would mean our life we have to proclaim the gospel we have to love god we have to love our lord jesus christ we have to love the gospel we have to love the law more than we love ourselves and so i just want to encourage you however you would do that whether it's in conversation at a starbucks or in a paper you're writing in your classroom or distributing gospel tracks or if you're sent out by your church to preach the gospel in the open air or you're communicating christ by sharing gospel -centered sermons online whatever you can do according to the personality god has given you you must be about proclaiming the gospel of jesus christ so love yourself love christ more than you love yourself and do not fear man who could only take your life but fear god who could destroy both body and soul and health amen and i know that you meant that we are to love the law above our own life that you meant biblical law not some arbitrary insane laws that are no if i said law i meant lord okay yeah no no we're not no we're certainly not the love we're certainly not to love the laws of men over the law of god or god himself yeah but we need to love the lord more than we love ourselves and go out and present and proclaim the gospel yeah maybe you pronounced it with a brooklyn accent laud but we do have we do have some listeners that have questions for you uh first we have uh ronald in eastern suffolk county long island new york who asks do you think that your history in law enforcement and impressive resume in that regard are more of a blessing or a liability in regard to your activity in open air evangelism and abortion mills well i um i would hope that it would be um an asset other than a liability and i'm saying that now as a man who's been arrested outside of an abortuary but but look at being being in law enforcement for for 20 years um i i know the subculture i i know the law um certainly it's changed in some ways um over the last 10 11 years since i retired but the basic legal principles and certainly the constitution itself has not changed and uh so being in law enforcement allows me or having been in law enforcement rather allows me to communicate with police officers in their own language it also allows me to know when they're lying to me and when they're telling me the truth and having been in law enforcement for 20 years you know one thing i know is that it's a lot easier to talk your way into the back seat of a patrol car than out of it yeah and so so many times christians get themselves in trouble on the streets because they think they're going to win all of the fights and all of the arguments they're on the sidewalk um and and you're not you know if an off officers have a great deal of authority and most of those officers wield that authority in the right way even as fallible as every human being is most officers are out there trying to do the job the right way um but you know you you run into some officers who are who are batch heavy um who um you know have an agenda of their own uh and are not a um a disimpassioned uh enforcer of the law and so you know standing there arguing with an officer about rights or about uh um a sidewalk or about uh you know how close you are to a business the goal is to carry yourself in such a way that you're able to stay out there to proclaim the gospel um and so if an officer says hey can you move i know you're on a public sidewalk but can you move 10 feet away from the store um and these people will stop calling us that's the time to say you bet officer i'll move that 10 feet no problem he's not asking you to sin against god by moving 10 feet down the sidewalk um you know unless an officer is asking you to sin against god you know if like with peter and john an officer is saying look you could say whatever you want but don't you talk about jesus here well then you stand there with a smile on your face and you talk about jesus until they cart you away but up to that point we should submit to the governing authority and i think too many christians go out onto the streets even outside of abortion clinics with thoughts on their mind of of standing for their right as opposed to standing for the gospel of jesus christ and for the lives of unborn children now what would you do if a police officer or officers plural said move completely away from the abortion clinic so that nobody entering or exiting can see or hear you yeah um if if there was a law that said i should submit to that then i would have to submit to that but there is no law like that here in the united states we are allowed to stand on a public sidewalk we are there are no buffer zones around abortuaries that say you have to stay 300 yards away or you have to be out of sight or we're out of mind or out of hearing range those laws do do not exist and so i'm going i'm going to submit i'm going to submit to a police officer who gives me a lawful order well even moving 10 feet on the sidewalk may be an arbitrary command on his part it might yes it might be but but we have to decide chris what hills we're going to die on so that one that one you would not die on you would die on the hill where he said i don't want anybody entering or exiting this building to hear or see you yeah well i'm sorry i don't live in afghanistan officer i live here in the united states and uh yeah and and so right so if an officer is going to if an officer is going to enforce his will as opposed to the law then i'm going to have to make a decision whether or not i'm going to submit to that governing authority in that instance if an officer is out there simply trying to to keep the peace and not take me to jail and that means moving 10 feet down the sidewalk or or turning my amplifier down from a five to a four i'm going to do that uh it i'm going to do that because it's more important for me to be out there on the street um than it is to win uh to win that fight in that moment and be taken off off the street um and so just as there is letter of the uh to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves when we are dialoguing with with officers if i if i if i submit to them if they're asking me to do something that they may not have the authority to ask me to do but what they're asking of me is not going to infringe upon the gospel it's not going to keep me from preaching the gospel it's not going to cause me to compromise my faith in any way then then i'm going to acquiesce in those moments for the sake of the gospel and what's going to what happens the next time chris is and these things have happened to me all over the united states these kind of contacts with law enforcement the next time they get called out they say oh it's tony he works with us um oh it's tony he's reasonable we're going to be able to talk to him oh it's tony he knows the law and and so i'm going to get the benefit of the doubt the on the second or the third or the fourth call in most cases then if on my first contact with them i argued with them over a 10 -foot piece of concrete and let's see here we have bb in cumberland county pennsylvania who asks are is there a list of things that you could mention that you would advise and counsel those involved in similar open air ministries that you are involved in outside abortion clinics that they not do even if they are lawful things oh that they not do okay even if you have a a freedom and a legal right to do certain things what are some things that you would advise people not to do wow um yeah that's that's a really good question chris i don't i don't know if i've received a question of legal things not to do i often get questions about what illegal things should we not do or should do but um so you even hinted at you hinted at one of them you were you were talking about being very polite to a police officer speaking to you might be your right and you might not get a fine or be arrested by just yelling something at a police officer but that that's obviously one thing right sure certainly yes right you have you have the right to speak your mind to a police officer um but you know again these officers have a great deal of authority and the the the uh penal code and municipal codes are very thick documents and you'd be amazed at what kind of laws are still um and if if you're bent on talking yourself into a patrol car it's really really easy to do um and so there are times when saying less is more there are times when when not answering questions or or not offering advice to the officer or not offering your peace of mind um to the officer is is the right thing to do um for instance on one of the more mistakes that a lot of officers make is that there is an area of the of a driveway a driveway leading to a public street from private property that's called the driveway approach that is the area where a public sidewalk crosses a driveway you are allowed to be on that property that area of the driveway is maintained by the city it is public property you're allowed to stand there now you're not allowed to block the driveway you're not allowed to stand on that area where the sidewalk crosses the driveway and refuse to move and not let cars in or out um that would be impeding traffic that would be blocking a sidewalk or driveway that would be a violation of law but you are legally allowed to stand in that driveway approach even though uh even though we are allowed to do that it is the policy of our church of our elders that we don't stand on those driveway approaches we make sure that we're standing on the public sidewalk um and that we're not standing on any portion of the driveway whether even if it's even if it's public property because it gives it gives the abortion um the abortion clinic one less thing to call the police about um most um most uh municipalities have sound ordinance laws that are um ambiguous and arbitrary at best and as Jeff Durbin has testified a number of times um there are case laws now that allow that have overturned municipalities uh laws about using amplification as part of free speech um but yet many police officers um don't even know their own city ordinances regarding these things so if you can if you can be heard without the use of amplification i would recommend not using amplification even if you're allowed to do it because again it's one less thing uh that the police uh will be uh will be called about um you know if the signage look you're allowed to stand there with a sign you're allowed to stand there with with a sign that says just about anything so long as you're not making any kind of threats or or or something like that and you know of course there's a debate among um you know whether graphic signs are best or non -graphic signs are best um i believe there's a place for both of them and i believe it's up to someone's conscience as to what kind of sign um you carry um but you want to make sure that even though you're it's legal for you to carry signs that you carry them and you hold them in such a way that you're not appearing aggressive you don't want to look like a protester even though that's how you're going to be labeled that's what you're going to be called and in a sense that's what you're doing um you don't want to be standing there shaking your sign or or you know um chanting while while the sign is moving to the to the beat of your uh of every syllable you're saying you know you you want them to be able to read the sign that you're holding so you don't want to come across you want to come across as someone with a message as opposed to someone who's nothing more than a picketer so i hope those things help oh those were excellent uh and it just reminds me of something that it's interesting why anyone who was in favor of abortion would be offended by a sign that depicted a photograph or was a photograph an enlarged photograph of a dismembered infant sure why would that be offensive to you i would not be offended if somebody was holding up a sign that had a photograph of a a liver a heart why would that be offensive to you that a unborn child was on that photograph that was obviously gruesomely uh executed uh there should be no reason for offense well chris and you know as well as i do the reason for that offense is those those photos confront them with the lie that they have been telling themselves they look at those pictures and they do not see a blob of tissues they do not see a parasite they see the remains of a human being so many times chris when i when we're outside of an abortuary someone will drive by and we'll have children out there with us and and they'll stop roll down the window and scream why do you have children here and my first response is why is something bad happening here are you telling are you telling me there's something wrong going on inside why are my children aren't safe here now my children are safe out here they're not safe inside the building and so you know that there's no reason for someone to be offended that children are outside if nothing bad is happening inside but they know murder is happening inside so that's why they're offended john and bangor maine says typically when you face any kind of police interaction while doing something like you are doing in an open air evangelism or an abortion clinic evangelism effort when police find out of your background do they typically become more sympathetic are they sometimes embarrassed when they are giving you a hard time were were there any police officers who were embarrassed when you were arrested um that's a great question i i am not quick to identify myself as a retired deputy sheriff um i i usually hold that card till the very end um obviously that didn't help me on may 30th 2017 with an officer who professed to be a christian and was in favor of what we were doing so i what where it's helpful to me is that when i when i reference uh where i worked and how long i worked the officers if they're if they're half you know worth half their salt they realize that the lies that they often tell to people who haven't done the job aren't going to work with me and so that that often cuts through a lot of the um a lot of the nonsense um i i don't find them um often more i don't find them more sympathetic um many officers wonder you know you've retired why do you do what are you doing this for um so i don't necessarily find them more sympathetic but i do find them more willing to reason um but again that really depends on the jurisdiction and the man or woman behind the badge who's standing in front of me because again the law enforcement community draws from the same infallible human race as every other profession and while most officers want to do the job the right way with others it's a wonder they ever receive their badge they're so incompetent or they have such poor people skills and i've run into a few of those and so no two situations are alike and i never assume that my background in law enforcement is going to be a benefit to me in fact it could be a hindrance we have rj in white plains new york who said i think i missed the period of time where you are forbidden to enter anywhere near a

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Planned Parenthood for outreach there can you restate how long you are supposed to be forbidden to be there yes i'm on probation for one year and so i am forbidden from being at any

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Planned Parenthood for that full year but i also want to make note that i'm continuing to go to the other abortuary in iowa city on thursdays with my elders doing the exact same thing that resulted in my arrest and we've had police contact and there's been no threat of arrest no one's told me to stop preaching um you know that's that's part of the problem chris is that the laws are so ambiguous that what is against the law at one moment a half hour in a different place might not be against yeah uh it's it's uh it's mind -boggling the whole thing uh we have cj from lindenhurst long island new york who says do you have any resources that would instruct members of churches on the proper way and the most effective way and god honoring way to assemble together near abortion mills so that they could have outreaches such as yours yes um a dear friend of mine a lady by the name of patty smith scott and patty smith have been doing abortuary ministry uh for decades they have forgotten more than i know about abortuary ministry um patty wrote a chapter in my book uh cross encounters that provide um basic instruction on conducting abortuary ministry also any church can contact grace fellowship church and you just go to gracefellowshipqc .com

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shoot an email off to my pastor to the elders and i would be more than happy um to come to any church to help them establish that kind of ministry i happen to know of a church that wants you to do that uh oh really yeah my former pastor before i moved to pennsylvania mark rimaldi he might even be listening now uh mark rimaldi of grace reform baptist church in merrick long island uh about a year ago said that he would love to have you come there and maybe a financial reason that they haven't yet extended the invitation but uh well you know let me speak to that real quickly and i and i think i certainly would have the permission of my elders to do that look i don't i don't go any i don't go anywhere for money um if they're willing to if they're willing to cover transportation and give me a room a bed in a church member's home that's it i mean i i'm not looking for money um to do this kind of thing i it's about the gospel of jesus christ so you know i don't want something like finances to ever get in the way of me being able to serve a church well that's great to know and i want you in a minute to just summarize what you most want etched on the hearts and minds of our listeners today yeah here's what here's what i want you to hear more than anything else that god the father sent his son to earth in the person of jesus christ fully god fully man and without sin who lived a life that you and i cannot live a life of perfection and then at a time appointed before the foundation of the world he voluntarily went to a roman cross where he died a death he did not deserve to take upon himself the punishment you and i rightly deserve for our sins against god and then he forever defeated sin and death when he rose from the grave and if in listening to this broadcast today you have been brought to the realization that you do not know jesus christ as your lord and your savior then obey god repent and believe the gospel while god has given you time amen and tony's website is cross encounters men .com

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cross encounters men for ministry .com cross encounters men .com don't forget about jeff durbin's website for apologia studios .com

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