Gregory Schulz on the LCMS: Anatomy of an Implosion

Hey everyone, welcome once again to the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris a little under the weather this morning. Thank you for those who are praying for me. I know I announced that on the truth script podcast on Tuesday, and I'm getting a little better, but it is slow so I don't know if I picked up something on the airplane or or what but.

But anyway, I am excited today to have our guests. He's gonna do most of the thinking so I don't have to you know in my mentally sick brain here we have. We have actually someone who's been on the podcast before Dr. Schultz who was if you recall at Concordia University, and I think dr. Schultz.

Are you still at Concordia University?

Yeah, thanks first John. I just wanted to say it's it's a real privilege and blessing to be talking with you again and your listeners, so yes, I'm technically still on the faculty. Have been in Exile I suppose for a little over two years now prohibited to teach and even go on campus actually.

Well.

We'll talk about that, but dr. Gregory Schultz has a new book. That's out. That's one of the reasons the main reason actually that he's on today, and I want to show you all that. That's his website if you want to find out more about his writings.

Lutheran philosopher. Calm. But you can get his book you go to Amazon or Barnes Noble. Anatomy of an implosion which is a very. You know with the the new sort of masculine movement in Christianity. You definitely have a cover that fits that with the Roman soldier right there, so.

Check that out, and we're gonna be talking about it, but let's start here dr. Schultz. How are you doing? I mean you just mentioned you can't even go on the campus you teach at but you're technically on the faculty.

How does that work? Oh?

Thanks, John. I'm well in the Lord if You know if it is an exile, it's a pretty well populated island of Patmos or however you want to do that so. Got a lot of friends. I I certainly do miss teaching my students and I think not breaking any rules here to say that if as you and your listeners take a look at some of the reporting online at the Federalist about things or I've included texts of those in the book too, so everybody can read it there.

You'll see that actually, it just does not look like they want me back and Lawyers have been commenting that things should be brought to some sort of conclusion here so without without saying much more.

I'm Regrettably realizing that there's just no place for me there under the circumstances at my university.

And we did a podcast now I want to say what a year and a half ago, maybe yeah almost two years I think almost two years ago. Wow. Wow. How time goes. And you were opposing some of the critical race theory teachings essentially that we're going on and not just classes, but coming down from the administration and.

And that really has given you the the scarlet letter so to speak and I know you're not the only one. But you're someone who's been bold enough to actually be vocal about this and and we're very appreciative of that.

I mean, that's we need more people like you. Are you. Are you doing ministry anywhere? Like a local church or.

Yes, well.

Yeah, right. So I do get get involved for guest preaching and and assisting with liturgy and so forth. But I'm at the moment. I've been going kind of far. Perhaps with some open doors from the Lord. I've have done some teaching and lecturing in South Africa last summer was there for about a month and this year I've been invited to we have a Lutheran seminary in Kenya if if you or your viewers are familiar with that movie out of Africa or perhaps Denison's book by the same title.

I Understand that it's it's gonna be my first time there. It's just over the hills from where she had her coffee farm in Africa. So some seminary teaching there. I've got some some work to do.

Wow, okay. So you're you're an international. You're Indiana Jones in it a little bit across the world with your teaching there. So that's that's great. I'm glad that that you have found places or people have found you to use the gifts that you have.

This new book. Maybe that's what we need to do. Now is just a switch gears unless there was something else I mean that you wanted to share with people. We could just talk about your book and you know what people can glean from it why you wrote it and that kind of thing.

Sure, let's do that. Okay. So the the first question you're always supposed to ask any author is why'd you write it? So why'd you write this book and what do you hope to accomplish?

Yeah, so The why write it Has has to do with the same reason that after doing my best to talk to administrators and board members and so forth at my university why I knew I had to publish my doctrinal and philosophical concerns about woke Marxism at my Concordia University so the the reason for writing it could probably be boiled down to Confession, so I think we've got very similar vocabulary on this but in the Lutheran discussion we sometimes Pile up extra words to be sure that we're defining ourselves.

Well, and we generally don't talk about ourselves in my church body as just Lutheran but we talk about ourselves as being confessional Lutherans and then as you know, and as I Write about at some length in the book to confess means to speak in line in the first place with God's authoritative word, so There was a call for repentance to my university administration and Board of Regents By our church body president about a year ago.

But there has been no repentance. There's been I think kind of an effort to suggest that there's just a reset going on and nothing to be seen here. I know that's not the case. So the thesis of the book is a confessional one and it has to do then with My conviction as I hope a thoughtful person that it's the conditions at the university Not just the announcement the very public announcement for the better part of two years that they wanted a woke president.

But it's the conditions that would have allowed that sort of thing to happen and it turns out that That's a pretty profound institutional culture problem. Interestingly enough that my university among other things is not adhering to our Lutheran Confessions though claiming to be a confessional institution now, what about the outcome?

You mentioned in passing that Roman soldier on the that centurion on the cover of the book I've got a longer story about that if we've got time to get to it, but My conviction is this John? I think that the people in the front lines the those who take upon themselves the title of leadership Are are simply falling down on the job.

And I think it's pretty close to if it isn't actually a surrender the our Christian colleges Should at a bare minimum Be a high-fidelity alternative to the public or government schools in our country and We are falling down on that rather terribly.

So I think the thing is to turn to the rank-and-file to turn to the pastors in the congregations the members of the congregations the laity and To give them as much information as much I'll go ahead and say biblical analysis as possible.

Yeah, we know I was at a Lutheran event. I don't know a year ago something like that and It was like a I think they called it a colloquy and yeah I presented it was some Lutheran pastors there a vision for it says something similar to I think what you just articulated that the way orthodoxy is going to be preserved and the best way is Through local pastors local congregations.

It seems like the institutions are far gone at this point. Which for different denominations that's met differently. I mean Baptists I think have a little easier time with that just because they're so independent anyway, but it struck me that the Lutherans are more hierarchical and that that was a difficult thing to Embrace.

From from I guess my perspective just reading the temperature of the room and And giving similar messages in other places.

I.

Mean, do you think so the book that you've written it is for Christians more broadly. But you know, I know you're writing from a Lutheran context. Is this something that Lutherans? You think will embrace or are they gonna still keep giving their finances to Concordia and maybe some of these other places.

Even though they know that they're compromised.

Yeah, I think. We can talk a little bit about some evidence that things are are imploding as I say in the book. Financially also, but I think what I'd like to do John is a respect. Your notion about being more Hierarchical that makes sense to me, but I'd prefer to say being more corporate so.

I.

If I need any forgiveness for this, I think people understand. I really don't think that you can trust people who have.

The.

Label of president in front of their job title. Right now. And I I'm gonna go ahead and say I feel very skeptical about this in my own church body. One of the reasons is that when a person is doing this president stuff.

He has a presumptive allegiance to maintain the institution that he's president over and. A fundamental question to ask is first of all is the corporate model at all acceptable in the church. I believe we're seeing right now why it never should have been but just to put it in a turn of phrase that You know as Bible believing folks we would all recognize.

These church institutions should not identify as corporations. I'm not commenting on the legal ins and outs of it. But they shouldn't identify as corporations in the way they think and operate. They should be thinking about themselves not as corporations but as corpus meum as Jesus would say if he was speaking in Latin, you know my body.

And that that's a fundamental problem so I Don't know. And maybe I'm not competent to comment on how the church body is going. So I'm going to say I'm maintaining as best I can a pretty narrow concern and focus with Lutheran higher education and I would guess though.

I don't know for sure John that in evangelical circles I really think that our educational work is comparable to world missionary work for us. This is this is the thing that we really bring. You know everything from kindergarten on up through through our seminaries and post grad work.

We come from Wittenberg University. Right, so we're though we often forget it. We've got you know, some major obligations in the area of education. That's where we came from a Lutheran University and that I think we are are failing at.

So as we're talking here, we're in the week right after Ash Wednesday. On Ash Wednesday, there was an announcement that came out from my university Concordia University, Wisconsin they have a second campus that has been under their wing for a number of years in Ann Arbor, Michigan and the new president at Concordia, Wisconsin announced that they were cutting back severely on the campus in Ann Arbor, Michigan for financial reasons.

The the language, you know is usually pretty guarded and about as optimistic as a person can make it. But reading just a little bit between the lines. It looks like that Campus to the great regret of the students, especially but also my faculty colleagues there is going to be cut back severely.

So part of the part of the response here. Is that I don't exactly know about the church's reaction. All by itself as much as the financial entanglements and the consequences of that, you know for our universities I would imagine it's much the same for you, though.

I don't know very few of us are like Hillsdale where the the mission has been to stay free of Government entanglement for the sake of preserving the doctrine and teaching you need to do as a Christian School of Higher Learning.

Right, right this entanglement with with the federal government, which is just you know on a tear against Christianity and every other good And decent thing right now. This is just wreaking great harm not to mention the accreditation stuff which sort of cements that.

Just a reminder to everyone who's listening right now if you have questions for dr. Scholl's You can go to YouTube or Facebook where we are streaming and you can post a comment and dr Scholl's I will relay the message and we will see if we can get an answer.

So Dr. Scholl's you say in your your book. I just had it pulled up page 152. Woke ism is afflicting the consciences of students faculty and supporters of Concordia. Therefore programmatic systemic woke ism merits reconsideration.

It also merits personal and institutional repentance. Now the thing I find interesting about this Is this is exactly right right the language you're using. I don't know if this was on purpose, but the language that the woke Movement uses right is is similar like they will say That probably Concordia would need to repent of its systemic Racism right as an institution.

They need to do institutional repentance. You're flipping that and you're saying actually they need to Repent of their woke ism. Was that on purpose that you use that language?

Sure, it was who wants to give up our perfectly solid wonderful and biblical terminology to these Angry Marxist people who want to overthrow everything so I of course I mean it and then It also is the case that You know in that quote you you cited I Mentioned it's both for the institution and for the individuals involved.

So Though the US Supreme Court, I Understand considers corporations to be persons for all intents and purposes. We know that's not the case. That's kind of a misplaced a fallacy of misplaced concreteness the the Concern is for the individuals in leadership and as I've been saying most importantly for the faculty who do the real work at the university after all and the students who are you know supposed to be the soul of our work at the universities and That interestingly enough in the in the rush to Silence me by any means necessary There's there's been no Addressing in print or in public about the harm being done to my faculty colleagues many I would say maybe even most who are Confessional in the sense I talked about before very concerned with adherence to the Bible word-for-word and the students.

We.

Have pre seminary students and we have Students who are headed into the Lutheran teaching ministry and You know, there's there's just a great deal of harm to people's consciousness and then we would recognize that in church conversation as our conscience which is you know, we're particularly concerned about our relationship to God and and you know that that we are.

In a passage I've been using a lot that we are at rest in Christ. You know as Augustine says you've made us for yourself Lord and our hearts are not at rest. Until we find our rest in you. The restlessness That's being sown by the woke Marxists including the woke Marxist leaders at our country's universities is Antithetical to the gospel.

It's not just you know, kind of a quirky alternative or something. It is absolutely opposed to Christ and his word.

We have a question looks like from a Listener, I want to as we get these questions, I might hold on to some but this one I want to ask you now the LCMS has a pastor shortage and it has a university problem, too.

Should we expect the LCMS to be on its way out? I mean, that's. That's a legitimate. I mean, so I guess that would impact why you wrote the book. Is this for a revival that you're hoping will happen or do you you see that the Lord has already judged the LCMS?

Yeah, I'm I'm not competent to make that as in an overall assessment by any means but I would say let's look at the question this way. I Don't want to be rude to your question or I agree It's a legitimate question, but my concern is not trying to pretend to be a prophet of what's going to happen to my church body.

We know on the one hand that Christ's Church his church Cannot fail we have his word on that and and that's a subtle thing. But the question is whether for instance the universities in my church body are in line with Christ And his word that word that will never pass away or not.

That's the question. So my my existential sensibilities Would leave me to contribute this the question is not How do we predict this is going to turn out which gets to look a little bit like being spectators on the whole business?

Our question in the Lutheran Church, for instance needs to be what can we do to right the ship or in the metaphor? I use in the book. What can we do to restore a healthy atmosphere for the submarine crew and forestall the implosion of the submarine the Lutheran University.

Well, you know I can see why someone would ask that question given the title. Because it's pretty I mean it seems pretty serious. An implosion means. Things are are not just leaking like this is seriously awry.

This is so. I mean, obviously this is like level 10 red alert and. And so you're you're giving a stern warning to the people in your denomination about.

Based on the conditions. So so based on what you could call the culture of the universities, but based on the conditions, there's another reference in the title. About 50 years ago. So let's say that's a generation or two ago in my church body.

There was a major doctrinal problem at one of our seminaries the one in st. Louis. Which resulted in what was called the Seminex explosion? One of I think one of the professors and pastors that we've had writing over the last decades Kurt Marquardt wrote a book after that that explosion which he titled anatomy of an explosion and throughout my little book which Just partakes I think of the wisdom of Professor Marquardt really and applies it to our situation.

In my book I I take up his insights and apply them to what's going on this time not at our seminary but at our entire Concordia University system. So it is a serious title and I I have said some pretty serious things in the book and I am calling for repentance.

Not.

Not for just you know, let's just keep on going and see what happens. Because the conditions that are necessary. Our literacy in our scripture in God's Word and in the Lutheran confessions, which are being deleted.

Suppressed. And have been for quite some time at my university. I don't know for sure about the other Concordia's and and so, you know, it's a call for those who have ears to hear. I I fessed up in the book that I I have no illusions about the university board or administration.

Necessarily listening to me, but I guess I'll fess up. I still hope that they might. I Still hope they might even at this kind of 11th hour.

You use the term evil you mean in the book quite a bit, which is something that That is it's not done in evangelical popular evangelical books, right? But you say there can be no accommodation no appeasement with this evil dogma.

You're talking about Marxism. Yes. Maybe for those who aren't as familiar. They haven't listened to our other podcasts on this maybe briefly could you just walk through? What did what's going on at Concordia or in the LC MS more broadly that causes you to?

Make that kind of determination that there's actual evil going on. I mean, obviously you've you've been Marginalized because of your views but you know, that's just you. Is this a broader thing and why is this challenging the confessions or how?

Sure, so.

The.

The foundation of what I'm offering to folks. First of all in the in the Lutheran churches, but as I mentioned, I believe it will be helpful to folks fighting the good fight in other Christian institutions to.

The groundwork for what I'm doing is what you could call philosophy of language so the woke Marxism is. Not simply doing a George Orwell thing. It's not just newspeak or woke speak that's going on. It's a frontal assault on language I'm going to say.

Just mention I happen to be the professor who was teaching the philosophy of language course at my university as well. By the way as the only course on Christ and culture so the. The language thing comes comes to the heart of it this way.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. God has chosen though. He could do anything. Whatever he pleases right? He has chosen to commune and communicate with human beings through language the language of Scripture the inerrant efficacious, right Word of God.

We have a.

A.

Line a very important line. I think in our day, especially in our Lutheran confessions. It's in the Apology to the Augsburg Confession, and I'm just going to throw it out in Latin kind of quickly. It's an article for about justification or God's atonement and forgiveness for all people.

So the line is God Cannot be apprehended Nisi per verbum except through the word. Now in the first place that means Christ the Word of God. Think of John chapter 1 in the beginning was the logos in the second place It means all of Scripture all of its words all of its books.

Think of Jesus in John 5. These are the scriptures that testify of me and In Lutheran thought we have pretty consistently referred to that the scriptures then as the means of grace. So the thing is that in a passage we alluded to before Our Lord reminds us heaven and earth from Matthew's gospel.

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. So we know that God's Word is not going to change now. I'm going to say that In the third place so that only through the word refers to Jesus as the incarnate Word it refers to all the words of the God-breathed scriptures all the scriptures Old and New Testament and It teaches us about language.

So for shorthand, I'm just going to say language is obviously not an Evolutionary accident that that thesis is just tired and threadbare and worthless. It is nothing less than a divine gift of God. Aristotle as many of your listeners will know actually says the human being is essentially the logos being meaning language.

So what I what I am saying is That it is an evil business and I I did not refer to any of the people at my Concordia's being evil. I've consistently said that what they're doing is partaking of an evil ideology, which is serious enough.

So what what we have is I think Satan's last perhaps last attack on people in the church now after the Reformation is He can't destroy the word he can't destroy language either but he certainly can see to it that we lose our confident and trust in language so that we never read the Bible or Always think that whatever a pastor preaches to us is open to whatever interpretation we want to give it which is of course a postmodern and fitting philosophy of language to describe what the woke Marxist folks are up to when you change pronouns.

You are affecting human being you're taking issue with the divine gift of language and I'll go ahead and say it that language of Scripture is Jesus speaking so what you're doing is you're going toe-to-toe with Jesus and that sort of stuff Should never be tolerated in a Lutheran or Christian institution.

But it's as I said, it's really fentanyl and why why why? Would a Christian institution that is genuinely Christian? Why would they not as our confessions tell us reject and condemn such false dogma as?

Marxist ideology.

Is it really that bad. Like do you. I know that obviously the woke ism is there. But like are people actually using preferred pronouns or I mean, it's that kind of thing happening.

Well, um, can I ask so I know you and I have have talked a little bit off-air about Things in evangelicalism or the Baptist tradition, right, right. So what's happening with pronouns and altered words in in your you institutions?

Yeah, I don't know if I want to claim them as my institutions, but yeah sure yeah in Baptist circles, I would say that It's not Opposed there. There's been some waffling and like I went to Southeastern which is a Baptist University and There's some prominent.

Like JD Greer is a prominent graduate he's very influential there now. He's not a professor, but he's very tight with the professors there and he's waffled on this issue. Saying that Christians should use preferred pronouns.

He actually one of the premier churches SCBTS students go to is his and he said that you know we should use preferred pronouns and then later he kind of backtracked on that when he got some heat and. But I'll put it this way there's no strong Stand.

There's no, you know white paper that they've you know. Used to condemn that kind of thing. It's more I think ignored than anything else. So, I don't know. Is that the same kind of thing that you're seeing?

Well, yes, and you know, we could use a litmus test word here, right? Justice.

So that yeah that words been totally yeah.

Eviscerated. And you know, this is this is a biblical term also the notion of race race is a biblical concept. It's nothing like what's being taught in Racial justice movements in in allegedly Christian churches today.

Yeah, so what we've got there John I think is.

Maybe.

Those of us who who've been given all of this time and extra education by the Lord's providence, you know maybe folks really need to take a look at the kind of analysis that people like me can make and I am saying that it's evil to alter pronouns.

An attack on language. Maybe this would just be non contentious for your audience. I I don't know but that's an attack on Aristotle's understanding of the human being. This is this is where the attack on our human being is.

I've noted that even though for instance our Normative confessions for how to teach and what to teach, you know the minimum requirements in Lutheran education They use the word nature all the time and the word nature is actually being in effect censored from a lot of conversations as it is for Something that a lot of us have accepted in our professional output, right?

Can't use the word nature. It's a euro centric word or something, but so every every bit of giving way to that I'm gonna say it comes back to God. Because this is the gift of language and also Our Lutheran understanding at any rate is that this is an exclusive means of grace.

You cannot you cannot know what God says apart from his word. We do know how he feels about us what he thinks what he has done what his disposition toward us is. God so loved the world we know this Only because he has said so in his word if we're going to neglect that We are falling from the faith.

Surely.

We you do have a section where you this is um. Under the heading. What is the case. A comparison of the complaint? With what Shoals and Harrison have written which I know is getting into the weeds on some of this Lutheran stuff.

But yeah point for Shoals letters and essay not incidentally the BOR committee's posted announcement are unsurprisingly woke in their cavalier altering of text. True to the woke mindset of the presidential search postings.

Someone or some committee presumed to alter the pronouns in their posted version of our LC MS bylaws. So you do provide examples in your book. Some of these language alterations including pronouns.

Right. There's a victim. Yeah, that's very important. Excuse me. That's very important. It's also true that I would guess that people are seeing more of this at their universities because this Administrations and boards have just done whatever they can get away with.

Even things such as the faculty handbooks. Which say this is what you're obliged to do as a professor at this institution. This is the sort of thing that should not be done.

Those those um.

You know rules of the road for for teaching and conduct as a professor. Generally now include and whatever alterations the board or the administration may make at any time. In the case of my administration and board they just went ahead and made whatever use they wanted to of cherry-picked sections of.

Of these.

Handbooks and Rules for operation doing weird things that have never done never been done with those documents before. So that's a problem that's a big problem, but now let's go back to that word justice, how about that?

So I think if you're willing to change pronouns, you're probably willing to accept all sorts of ditzy notions about justice. Yeah, yeah, and and in a person right? Yeah, and in a professor. That means that you're not going to be teaching your students to think well and to think biblically.

So what I've recommended in one of my chapters is that? For for us. As confessional Lutherans, we've actually said things like this in our confessions the doctrine of justification. Is the here's some German the helped article.

Let's call that the the marquee or the organizing article of biblical doctrine. When people talk about social justice or racial justice The last thing that they are doing is going to their Bibles to find out What justice means according to God?

I would also just add in a Certainly crabby, but I think justified sense that they are also Just showing their their deliberate ignorance of all of Western thought. Anybody who's ever read or studied in a college class Plato's Republic?

Which centers around that Socratic question, what is justice ought to know better? Anyhow in Scripture, you know, we've got the righteousness of God that's a Tzadik in the Old Testament Hebrew and Dikaiosine or parts of the DK word group in the New Testament that can be translated both righteousness and justice.

So what what you're really doing? These social justice warriors. And I'm particularly concerned about those in the Lutheran camp. What they're actually doing is saying we are not not content. We are not content to teach that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and are justified freely by his grace we have to concentrate on other stuff and and for For self-identified Lutherans to do that is to say we just don't agree with anything important that Luther said right, what we're concerned about is diversity inclusion and equity and Let's just go ahead and say that equity business is a replacement for justice.

So the language matters the language matters. John and what I'm saying is Every time that we give an inch in terms of language. We are in education. We are contradicting the logos himself.

Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. There's a few questions. I want to bring to you and this is from Carrie Baldwin. Dr. Scholz Does your new book go into the linguistics and philosophy of language? You've just discussed.

Yeah, thanks, Carrie. That's a great question. So Linguistics would not be the right way to talk about it. If you don't mind my just being precise because we got so little time to to talk about this I would say philosophy of language so.

What I argue especially in the second chapter of my book is that the philosophy of language. Now remember John and I have just been talking about how language is fundamentally a divine gift of God and.

It the.

The scriptures have a Contiguity with what we think of as everyday human language. Our everyday human language is not inerrant. It's not authored directly by God. The Holy Ghost isn't breathing out my words, right, but it's still language.

Okay, so I do offer Drawing on the terminology of Philip Carey. Who's done a lot of writing on Augustine and his view of language? I do offer Two competing philosophies of this one phenomenon this one divine gift of language one of them I refer to following carry as the External efficacious means of grace philosophy.

So if you've been with us for for our time so far To be means of grace is a reference to scripture and then to the sacraments that scripture authorizes. But it's it's these are the only ways the only authorized Biblically authorized ways that God works in our lives works on us heart mind soul consciousness everything.

The other is the one that is the hallmark of woke Marxism in my argument and that would be called the expressivist semiotics view. So semiotics another perfectly wonderful word, by the way, that's the word say Maya.

That's translated miracle or wonder in John's Gospel for the most part. But that's been used to say that language is merely a bunch of arbitrary symbols that and here's the expressivist or expressionist part that express an Individual's inner thoughts or feelings to a greater or lesser clarity.

This probably comes to a comes to a head in Jacques Derrida. So what I'm saying is that woke Marxism is powered by a deficient destructive view of philosophy of language, which is postmodern from Derrida so Derrida.

Well, I mentioned in the book you don't really want to read his books. He is so opaque. He's somebody who's absolutely committed to the meaninglessness or the endless interpretation of language and he writes like that.

You need more than a bottle of Excedrin to get through chapters in his books, but you want to catch him in his interviews. Well, he's got to make more sense and has to speak to the point for a little longer.

I I offer some of those citations in that chapter too. So there we hear Derrida saying things like this. You know, I'm gonna paraphrase a lot. I have nothing against Moses and the prophets. I think they're just like other writings from Plato or whomever that I can interpret in any way I want and I think there's an unexpressed statement there that the Marxists are making use of and I think Derrida did too and Therefore no one's entitled to tell me I'm wrong.

I Get to say whatever I want to say. I get to say that the word justice means whatever I want it to mean. And then that's there so it would be chapter 2 in anatomy of an implosion and I think that since John mentioned my teaching platform Lutheran philosopher, it'll be okay to say that.

There I have some other of my published essays and so forth on that topic that would be available to.

Excellent. Excellent. Some other questions to now you might not want to answer this one, but. Von Brian von Breyhoff. Go hard. I don't know. Okay, that's the name. I'm curious about what your opinion on.

Dr Jordan Cooper is. I don't know if you want to say anything about. You know, who's your dr. Jordan Cooper is barely.

Okay, so I'm gonna plead ignorance here. All right, I I should should. Mention to our friend who sent that question in that I do have one or two books about Cooper At the bottom of my to read list because when I was over Actually Helping some Christian groups think about how to combat Marxism in in their colleges in South Africa last summer.

One of the professors recommended I really needed to look at Cooper. I still haven't done it, but the books there and that leaves me with no answer, but at least not sounding utterly ignorant.

Incognito Luther says. Do you believe we are entering another Seminex situation with the Concordia's which I think that was like kind of a Concordia in exile situation in the 80s, right?