Shall We Spank?

Sovereign Grace Family Church

1 view

August 18, 2022

00:00: We're going to go backward to Proverbs 13.
00:04: Oh, I know As you know, I was out for several weeks because of my surgery and then Took a little bit longer for me to get back into the swing of things than I originally thought but I had already prepared the message for Proverbs 13 and Proverbs 15 So I asked brother Andy if he would move ahead and he did to chapter 16 last week And that gave me the opportunity to go back and catch up with the messages that I've already prepared So this week I'm going to do chapter 13 verse 24 Next week.
00:40: I'm going to do chapter 15 verse 1 and then brother Andy's going to pick back up in chapter 17 and then Depending on when the baby comes we'll see how it all works out but that's the plan for the next few weeks and tonight's the title of tonight's message is Shall we spank? Okay, well we're We're going to talk about that.
01:04: I Will go ahead and say I agree But we will we're going to talk about this particular subject as it pertains to a lot of the discourse that is currently and going on in the in the evangelical world and in what might be referred to as popular evangelical psychology, and we're going to talk about what the Arguments are in opposition and how the Bible addresses those things So let's begin by reading the text and then we will pray Proverbs chapter 13 and verse 24 whoever spares the rod hates his son but he who loves him is diligent to Discipline him Father in heaven.
02:00: I thank you for your word I pray even now that you would keep me from error as I preach.
02:07: I pray that I would be Faithful to the truth of the text and Lord that your word would be paramount in today's discussion I pray Lord that you would give us eyes to see and ears to hear I pray that you would conform us ever more closely to what your word says And I pray that ultimately that you would be glorified in all that we say and do Father more than anything.
02:33: I pray that Christ would be exalted that his people would be edified and Lord if there's anyone here who knows not Christ that he would be put on display as beautiful and Lord that we would know him as Savior.
02:49: I pray all this in Jesus name.
02:51: Amen It is without a doubt That the past 200 years of human history Have been accompanied by an unparalleled advance in knowledge technology and understanding It wasn't that long ago that people were riding horses Now we have vehicles that drive themselves.
03:22: Have you seen this? There are now taxicabs that you can call in certain cities that will come and pick you up without a driver and will drive you to your location and Yeah, I'm not ready for that either.
03:35: I see Jackie's like I ain't getting that.
03:37: I don't think I would either But it's interesting that within one century of human existence We went from inventing air travel to conquering space travel The explosion of knowledge has given birth to the information age where just about any question that we have on any factual subject can be Answered with a touch of just a few buttons.
04:02: My children have learned this This was so funny the other day JJ asked Jennifer a question and she didn't know the answer I don't remember was some kind of factual question How high is Mount Everest or something something like that and she says well, I don't know he said well ask Siri This is the iPhone he said if you don't know ask Siri well because of the modern advancements in Knowledge, there's often a discounting of ancient wisdom It's often considered that if something comes from the past it must be antiquated backward or just plain wrong The attitude becomes something like this How can someone who lived hundreds of years ago have anything relevant to say to my life today? that's the attitude that we experience in our modern culture and Moreover this explosion of information has also been accompanied by a willingness to reinterpret the teachings of the past a Commonplace we see this is in regard to homosexuality It was fairly well received within the church up until about 40 years ago that the Bible condemned homosexuality but now there are books and Websites and videos and movies that come out and say no the Bible doesn't condemn what you've just misinterpreted those verses the church has been wrong for 2,000 years and you just don't understand That what Paul actually meant was something more akin to pederasty rather than homosexuality or something of that like well the same problem exists in regard to corporal punishment Corporal punishment is the act of using physical punishment on a child spanking and the teaching throughout The history of the Christian Church has been consistent Spank your kids.
06:18: I mean it wasn't always that way, but that's what it was.
06:21: It was consistent.
06:22: Shall we spank brother said amen? Yeah You don't get a vote but in recent history many have called into question the traditional understanding of the relevant texts one of the most common Sighted passages commonly cited passages Supporting corporal punishment or spanking a child is our text this evening Proverbs 1324 whoever spares the rod hates his son this passage clearly tells us that there is a proper place for the use of corrective corporal punishment however Some Bible teachers Have taken a Skeptical approach to this ancient wisdom and they have attempted to Reinterpret this text in accordance with their modern thinking I Want to give you just a few of? Their insights now, I want you to remember I don't agree with I'm with what I'm about to read I'm reading it for the benefit of showing the juxtaposition of their position in my own I don't want anybody to go later and say what's the pastor saying? No, I wasn't this but this is this is their Position.
07:49: I love it.
07:50: He made me a screen.
07:51: Thank you He did that quick and very talented This is an article in the website called the week Which is entitled Christians have no moral rationale for spanking their children.
08:08: That's the title of the article So they have an obvious position that stated in the title of the article.
08:15: This is what it says The key to interpreting this verse that is Proverbs 13 24 is The word rod as Michael Eric Dyson and ordained Baptist minister and professor of sociology at Georgetown University noted in New York Times The Hebrew word translated rod refers to a shepherd's rod which was used to guide the sheep not beat them the author of this proverb And the other rod verses is saying that parents who love their children will guide and lead and disciple them not beat them So you see what they've done They've taken the idea of using the rod as a as a disciplinary corrective tool and they've said no no No, it's it's not meant to to strike.
09:02: It's meant to guide Another article this is in Christ today's Christian woman.
09:11: I Don't know anything about the website, but I imagine it's wonderful I did get this article from there, but I don't know anything else about this was a this is what they the title is Should I spank my child? in Proverbs the rod is commonly translated from Hebrew words Mata and Shabbat Mata is a rod that demonstrates spiritual power such as Moses's rod Aaron's rod the sorcerer's rod and rods that symbolize authority Shabbat is the rod used as a tool by the shepherd or a teacher It is a symbol of authority in the hands of a ruler whether it is a scepter or an instrument of warfare and oppression Nowhere is the rod used as a tool for the physical punishment of people in quote.
09:52: So you see what they're doing They're saying we've got it wrong for 2,000 years.
09:55: You've missing this whole thing about the rod You just you just don't understand and here's an article from the religious religion news service entitled five myths of biblical spanking And this is what it says.
10:11: This is one one sentence One such path forward is understanding the rod verses as general exhortations for parental discipline rather than literal commands to physically strike children So what's their argument? No spanking and their argument is based on the fact that when it says that the rod is to be used for discipline it has nothing to do with striking a child and You know what? That sounds so correct in the ears of many modern people People hear that.
10:44: Oh The church has been wrong for 2,000 They've missed it for 2,000 years the wisdom of the ages has come and it came to me through Facebook Certainly there is a sense in which the rod Was used to guide I'm not going to argue that they are a hundred percent wrong, but I am going to say this Anytime someone contorts the truth by only giving a portion of the truth to manipulate the end result then it's all wrong and That's what they're doing And I'll prove that very quickly With a simple cross-reference of this term notice how they said all the rod verses, but they didn't quote any of them Except for Proverbs 13 24.
11:44: Let me quote a few more Proverbs 23 13 Do not withhold discipline from a child if you strike him with a rod, he will not die It kind of blows everything they just said out of the water, doesn't it? Because what they said was rods weren't used for striking They were only used for guiding rods were only used to guide the sheep never to strike the sheep The writer of the proverb in chapter 23 says if you strike him, he will not die.
12:15: He's using sanctified sarcasm Because what he's saying is a good spanking ain't gonna kill him By the way, that's how it's translated in the good news translation That's exactly how the good news now some of those weird translations get it a little wrong sometimes, but that's pretty good It says this it says don't hesitate to discipline children a good spanking won't kill him and that is the if you will the I'm trying to think of the word right now the dynamic equivalent of what the proverbial Text is saying the King James says withhold not correction from the child for if thou beatest him With the rod he shall not die by the way Just in case someone wants to argue the underlying Hebrew word The Hebrew word is knock off and it means to smite So it does mean to strike or to hit the Greek Septuagint translation of this word is Pata case and Or Pataxes.
13:22: I'm saying it wrong.
13:23: I'm sorry, and it literally means to strike So consider this if the rod was only used as a guide was never used to strike then that passage would make no sense in fact This passage provides an almost sarcastic response to those who would say that striking a child is somehow going to destroy them It's not gonna kill him.
13:49: And what's interesting is chapter 23 adds a balance If you if you were to go there You would notice that chapter 23 verse 13 says do not withhold discipline from a child for if you strike him with a rod He will not die It goes into verse 14 and says this if you strike him with the rod you will save his soul from Sheol Not only will he not die So he's he's going to survive the spanking but you're also providing a sanctifying influence in his life by striking him so that he understands that what he is doing brings about a modicum of temporary pain So that he understands that if he continues in his sin and rejects the authority of God He will get a pain that is eternal and everlasting and without any remittance James's Fawcett Brown says this while there is little danger that the use of the divine ordinance of the rod will produce bodily harm There is great.
14:55: Hope of spiritual good It's not going to kill him, but it would do him some good The Bible knowledge commentary says this it says the punishment will actually deliver him from physical death Not cause his death because that's what Sheol is is that it might this might save his life It's not going to kill him.
15:15: In fact, it might save him and there are other Proverbs Which lend credence to the position that this is not just a guiding rod But is a tool of corporal punishment Proverbs 22 15 folly is bound up in the heart of a child But the rod of discipline drives it far from him Now I want you to just think for a moment It's not talking about guiding it.
15:41: It's driving.
15:42: I would say it's It's a hitting for distance, but it's it's driving it out The picture here is that of of a of us of a Rod being used as a striking device Proverbs 29 15 the rod and reproof give wisdom but a child left to himself Bring shame to his mother The pulpit commentary on this one says the former denotes bodily correction what we call corporal punishment the latter discipline in words rebuke Administered when any moral fault is noticed the idea here is enunciated and is very common in this book.
16:26: So here again I just want you to hear this the the rod and reproof give wisdom.
16:30: What is reproof? verbal correction What is the rod? Physical correction.
16:36: So this put together they are both useful.
16:39: Does your child always have to be spanked? No Sometimes a verbal correction is enough Sometimes there are other methods that you may employ which are enough, but it's the rod and reproof that Give wisdom Not just one and not just the other.
17:02: I want to read from another article.
17:03: This is a Better article.
17:06: This is pastor Sam Crabtree writing for desiring God If You guys desiring God is John Piper's ministry in case for those who don't know Is spanking an appropriate way to apply these passages? Three observations show that it is first The plainest reading of these passages suggests that a rod is a physical device applied physically to awaken attention second mere talk is Inadequate to achieve awakening both in practical experience and in the Bible as Proverbs 29 19 says by mere words A servant is not disciplined That's key And then he says third the rod Appears alongside speech as a means of disciplining quotes the one we just looked at 29 15 If the rod were merely a metaphor for reproof that passage would make no sense Because it says the rod and reproof are both necessary Now I Think that we've made a case for corporal punishment based upon the text But there is another argument and I and you guys know how I am I I I hear the argument so I can give a response.
18:28: I just and I guess maybe I have a little bit of a Nature of that.
18:33: I just I like to respond to people I like not that I like to argue but I like to give a defense for the truth It's the way God made me.
18:42: Maybe it's Maybe it just is what it is.
18:44: I Want to hear it so that I can provide a biblical response and one of the arguments that I have heard on this particular issue is that the Old Testament endorses physical Punishment, but the New Testament Does not allow for it So the Old Testament Does provide the rod verses and the Proverbs and other places and those verses are certainly Telling us that spanking a child is appropriate, but the New Testament has forbidden it There's a Greek word for that Baloney, that's right, but I'm gonna respond not just by saying baloney Because this is what they said This is an article that says outside of this passage and a few others in the non-literal book of Proverbs This is again.
19:44: This is how they're saying.
19:44: Yeah This is their their argument Outside of this passage and a few others in the non-literal book of Proverbs the Bible barely says anything about physical punishment of children Yeah, except for like stoning them and Deuteronomy, but oh, never mind.
19:58: Okay, but you know, this is their argument I'd hardly says anything You'll find nothing aside from a few general references to discipline There are none count them zero verses in the New Testament endorsing spanking instead many New Testament passages discourage hitting a child for any reason There are numerous commands against physical violence of all kinds Sorry, I'm for those who can't hear if you're listening to this I'm shaking my head No, this is nonsense But I'm gonna finish reading the famous command to turn the other cheek rather than react in anger when provoked So what's what you should do is when your children disrespect you you should turn the other cheek.
20:38: That's what Jesus was saying in Matthew 5 Hogwash absolute this is this is borderline stupidity Well, yeah, yeah cross the border.
20:50: Hey, bro.
20:51: I Want I want to show you a passage that I believe does endorse physical corporal punishment in the New Testament Everybody turn in your Bibles to Hebrews chapter 12 now, we're going to read verses 3 to 11 So we're going to read kind of a long section, but we're going to focus in on verses 5 and 6 But I want to read the passage for the immediate context because the context is the discipline of the Lord But he uses an example of human discipline in his in this context so look with me at verse 3 chat Hebrews 12 verse 3 Consider him who endures from sinners such hostility against himself so that you may not grow weary or faint-hearted In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? My son do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord do not be weary when reproved by him for the Lord disciplines the one he loves and chastises every son whom he receives It is for discipline that you have to endure God is treating you as sons for what son is there whom his father does not Discipline if you are left without discipline in which all have participated then you are illegitimate children and not sons Besides this we have earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them Shall we not much more be subject to the father of spirits and live for they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he Disciplines us for our good that we may share his holiness for the moment All discipline seems painful rather than pleasant But later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it Okay So the context is the discipline of God on us He is comparing that to the discipline of a father to his son But the key word in all of this is the word chastise please look with me at verse 6 it says for the Lord disciplines the one he loves and Chastises every son whom he receives now this is in the spiritual context because our discipline and chastisement comes from the Lord and it is a Spiritual discipline a spiritual chastisement We know that when we sin or when we engage in things we ought not do God often brings about things in our heart like shame and other other Issues in life that are disciplines and chastisements.
23:35: I'll be honest with you.
23:36: Sometimes I'd rather you just spank me, you know Because sometimes that spiritual chastisement and the heart is much worse than anything.
23:43: I could endure on the physical But the point I want to make is the word here for chastise is the word to flog It is the same word that is translated in all four Gospels for when Jesus was being whipped prior to the crucifixion and It refers to this as something that God does to those whom he loves So it seems clear to me that the concept of discipline even within the New Testament context can have the connotation of Corrective corporal punishment So if the Bible endorses corporal punishment What does this look like in? practical application We've answered the question shall we spank Yes, amen Now we answer a second question.
24:50: You don't have to change the screen for this one How shall we spank Okay, we're told that we should and we must but We also have to consider does the Bible speak To how this is to be done.
25:08: I believe that it does in fact I want to I want to I want to mention this how many of you are familiar with Focus on the family Dobson all those guys They say a lot of good things and a lot of what they say is helpful So what I'm about to say is not in any way to mean to diminish, you know If you like their books and so I'm not saying don't but oftentimes There are there are there like if you go and there's like a Like things about spanking and you look it up on their website There's all these things that that are sort of drawn from popular Christian psychology.
25:45: Not necessarily from the Bible I'll give you this here.
25:49: Here are five things from their website that I do think are useful, but not not necessarily biblical But they're helpful and I say, okay, if we wanted to apply these they could probably be good So five things I said one when you're when you're going into your what they call the parenting toolbox And you're pulling out the things that you need.
26:07: Obviously spanking is not the only tool you have You know, but when you're pulling out these things from your parenting toolbox, here are five things think about they say focus on love Look for other options Maintain self-control avoid anger This is one that I really took issue with it says spank between 18 months and six or seven years I don't have a time limit, but we'll talk about that another time.
26:30: I guess it's like yeah, I know They really start getting Good and defiant right around six or seven years and it just keeps going the idea that we're just gonna stop at this arbitrary number and This other one only spank privately never publicly again some of this is good and how you apply these things You know, that's going to be up to you and your household and mothers and fathers coming together and making decisions But the thing that I'm saying is often when you see lists like this They're they're based on experience and men's wisdom.
27:04: They're not necessarily based on Scripture so what I want to do is I want to try to draw from the scripture some ideas on How we are to apply this concept, okay, we know we're supposed to do it we know it's a necessity What does the Bible say? the first thing I think we should consider is That I do think the first and it's this is there one of theirs is That there there has to be an element of love in this or we are doing it in the wrong spirit What is the fruit of the Spirit love joy peace patience kindness goodness gentleness faithfulness and self-control against such there is no law We know what the fruit of the Spirit is is is is love first and foremost if I am spanking my children for any other reason Other than the fact that I love them that I do think that that is something that is one it's unhelpful and It can even it can even lead to a spirit of Animosity between me and my child.
28:05: So I do think that love must be a part of that Doesn't know it doesn't mean I love what they're doing and I have to explain to them that I do not like what you're doing I'm very unhappy with what you've done the decision you've made whatever But I love you, and that's why I'm Disciplining you turn in your Bibles if you have them open still to Ephesians 6 And I want I want to read this passage we're gonna read to we're gonna read Ephesians 6 and in Colossians 3 two passages which use a phrase that I want to address Ephesians 6 verse 4 and Both of these address the father's Which does not mean that mothers don't have a place for discipline But I will say this if there are children that are undisciplined.
28:54: I do think that it's primarily the father's fault You say what if the mom's not doing it? Well, then he needs to talk to her because he's still in charge of that house Says fathers do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord All right, very quickly.
29:20: I'm just going to read the Colossians passage is almost exactly the same But it does have a little different ending.
29:25: It says fathers do not provoke your children lest they become discouraged All right So these verses together tell us that even though we discipline our children we are not to provoke them to Anger and someone will say well a spanking is always going to provoke them to anger, but I don't believe so I don't believe Paul is saying that what he is saying is That in our discipline of our children, we mustn't be unjust overly harsh or strike in anger Because those would be provoking Behaviors Ellicott says this he says provoking denotes the exasperation produced by arbitrary and unsympathetic rule Think of your own life Imagine being pulled over by a police officer and the police officer is unwilling to tell you what you've done wrong He's unwilling to tell you why he stopped you He only wants to punish you and there's no there's no there's no grace or mercy in the conversation He's only there you would be provoked to anger and rightly.
30:40: So we know this happens.
30:41: Unfortunately, there are some police officers who Exercise their power in a way that is undignified of the office that they're in and when that happens What do we all say that's unjust and that's provoking the person to anger on Necessarily Now consider our ways with our children Do we do those same things? Matthew Henry says this he says the duty of parents be not impatient use no Unreasonable severities love that term use no unreasonable severities Deal prudently and wisely with children convince their judgments and work upon their reason bring them up Well under proper and compassionate correction and in the knowledge and the duty that God requires Albert Barnes says this he says there is no Principle of parental government more important than that a father should command his own temper when he inflicts punishment He should punish a child not because he is angry, but because he is right Haha That is a good thought I'm not spanking you because I'm angry.
31:57: I'm spanking you because I'm right and you're wrong and you need to be punished He goes on to say this we don't spank because of a personal contest But because God requires that we should do it and the welfare of the child demands that we do it And brothers, I want to say this.
32:20: I'll say this to the men and women There is no excuse for abuse in your home Absolutely no excuse for abuse in the life of a Christian man to a woman or to children and Women there's no excuse to abuse a husband or your children.
32:40: I've seen women abuse men Spanking should never be abusive shouldn't even be part of the conversation.
32:50: And if you can't tell the difference you need help Come and talk to somebody Since discipline is required in love Let us always discipline in love.
33:16: I Want us to consider one last thought as I begin to draw to a close not a long sermon tonight Just a little over 30 minutes Can you thank me later? Notice again what the text says going back to our original proverb He who spares the rod hates his son That's a heavy condemnation Because I have so many times in conversations with parents friends family members Heard this one statement.
33:55: I can't Punish or I can't spank my child because I love them too much I've heard that out straight out of people's mouth.
34:09: I'm not making that up That's not an illustration that came out of pastor Keith's synapses.
34:13: No, I have looked people in the face in Conversation about the discipline of a child and I've had parents look at me and said I cannot spank my child Because I love him too much and my response and you may think this is uncharitable.
34:29: My response is no you love yourself too much The Bible says you actually hate your child You love yourself Because if you spare the rod you hate your child Now I Know that some of what I've said tonight may be offensive to some folks may be offensive to some folks who hear this online And I am not intending to be offensive.
34:58: I'm intending to be biblically accurate That's all I want to do in my home in my ministry and behind the pulpit I always want to be fair with what the Bible says Am I saying I could never be corrected on this? No, I don't I'm not saying that but I will say this there is 2,000 years of church history and 6,000 years of human history plus however long there it's been around Where this wasn't even a question But somehow in the last hundred years we became wiser than all the generations before And therein lies the problem Instead of standing on the shoulders of our ancestors.
35:46: We've chosen to kick them in the teeth and for that We must repent Let's pray Father I thank you for your word.
35:57: I thank you for your truth.