Truth in Love Panel Discussion

The Meaning of Truth in Love and a Positive Conversation

This is truth and love. Thank you for joining us. We really appreciate your support. Give us a heart like share comment. Let us know that you're watching. If you have any questions tonight's the night to do it.

Um, I have smart brothers with me and and they can help answer questions about the Bible about theology about life in general. To smart brother pastors that are with me and I'm so thankful to have them.

This is truth and love. We get that from Ephesians chapter 4 verse 15, but speaking the truth and love We are to grow up in all aspects into him who is the head even Christ? So I pray that we can we can do that tonight.

We want to have a relaxed conversation about. Some topics that I come up with. Happy says that he says what's up, bro? Wish I was there. So happy is is with us live and happy you can join us if you want to.

Just follow the link brother. If you're unable to that's cool, we'll definitely get you in next time. So, um, I want to introduce my guest and I want you to introduce yourselves. Brother Jonathan, he's been with us before but I still would like for you to introduce yourselves to folks that may be watching.

Wait to tell what you do. Until we get to the first question because I think that you will be answering that question as we answer question number one. So just as much or as little information that you want to give out in in public internet land.

Tell folks who you are pastor Jonathan.

I'm Jonathan Foster Husband of over 20 years now father of two I love the local church and missions local and foreign as well and And Just honored to be here and love the Lord and love his word and I love brotherhood and Learning and growing together.

So I'm honored to be here tonight.

Absolutely, brother Jeffrey.

Well, my name is Jeff Rice and I'm Christian husband a father a friend to many. My lover of God's Word, I mean, I really don't know how much information you want me to get.

Okay. So, let's just jump right in. We're not going to go through certain scriptures tonight. We'll have just a general conversation. Hopefully that will be positive and encouraging which will be the opposite of what we're seeing in in media.

Social media everywhere even in our attitude sometimes and I know as as brother pastors. Even the conversation we were having earlier. You get unexpected bad news all the time or unexpectedly and Sometimes it can weigh on us and and hearing those negative messages can can weigh on us.

Constantly and bring us down and it really Steers the trajectory of our lives a lot of times the if we let it get a hold of us so I want to have a positive conversation looking at The good things the great things that God is doing.

In our in our lives and in our nation. So from your perspective and let's start local. What great things. And this is where you can get more information about yourself and your ministry and what you're doing.

What great things locally are you seeing God do? Where you are right now. Jonathan if you want to go ahead and start sure. Yeah.

Man, it's it's been a very exciting season I'm gonna start one of the great things is How our local churches minister to me a lot of times? We we see pastors and hear stories of Pastors who get through burnout or they're they're considered just hirelings of the church and the church uses them up and this just discards them and coming out of a year of Kovat and pandemic and all the chaos of that and and trying to navigate there's no amount of seminary anything that could prepare us for for trying to shepherd people through these seasons and Man, I just hit a real season of weariness.

Yeah, honestly, I You know, you want to thank your? Impenetrable and bulletproof when it comes to those kind of things and So my elders in our church and our church family, you know They loved me well in that time and they actually just came to me and said hey take six weeks off if you need more.

Take more. We're they didn't even ask me about salary or this or that it they just said hey we're gonna take care of you want to take care of your family want you to take time off and They just give me the freedom to do that.

And then they were intentional and my our elders were intentional to shepherd me through that that it wasn't like I just Said at home and twiddled my thumbs. They they like we want you to go places we want you to find a long time with God and and and so I did and man I have come back so refreshed and so energized with with renewed vision and direction and and clarity and and So first of all, you know, it's it's been just a tremendous season of how my church family Has loved me well.

And I just want to brag on them in that with vertical life church and and I hope they see this and hear me say Thank you. I've tried to say thank you a lot publicly. But you know, so for those of you watching out there love your pastors.

Well, no one can really understand sometimes the heartache and most of the time like like Robert just said It's very few times people call their pastor when it's something good to say. Hey, I'll just call to tell you good news I do get a few calls like that.

By the way, it's wonderful to get that but a lot of times it's in in their worst-case scenarios their marriages or families or sicknesses or things of that nature and so. So I'm thankful to be loved and I'm thankful to have a church family that I am very at peace and confident that they love me well and have stood beside me the second thing that we have going on that I think is just phenomenal is is we have a tremendous cooperation Among a local network of churches.

That that is just really cool. And and we At least once a month and and it pans out to be more often but very intentionally once a month we all come together on a Sunday night and we prayer walk our city and we go into neighborhoods and As a result of that God is just sovereignly put put situations in place just like this past week.

We did a prayer walk one of our church families Just happened up on a home that that was having trouble with DSS and a young lady and the young lady's father is very very sick and and Unable to to really kind of keep up the house.

And so as a result the young lady had to be removed even from her dad and it just was a very heartbreaking situation and and so They were needing Needing help and they were incapable of doing what they did.

So so our church families from different churches That night jumped in and began to help right then. They they come and asked us and said who called you guys and told you to come and we were. We were thrilled to tell nobody called us.

We just we just found you that the Lord just led us here when we just just circumstantially found you and.

And.

Then the next day I got to go back and talk to that guy and he gives he's sick bedridden and he said no really Tell me who sent you and I said listen. You can be assured that God sent us. I said nobody sent us except the Lord.

I said we weren't looking for a project to get involved with but weren't looking for something we were literally just wanting to walk prayer walk and meet people in our neighborhoods and share the love of God and The man began to tear up and he said, you know I've been bedridden now for a while with my sickness and he said I was really Beginning to believe that God had forgotten us.

He said I've been saved and I've been baptized. But he said I was really beginning to question the love of God and he said this is a miracle and he said this is Restored my faith. And so so in that moment man, I was tearing up and I was just overwhelmed and overjoyed that that God had seen fit to use just a simple act of Walking through neighborhoods and praying with people and then and just trying to share love with folks and and then God honored that effort that small minute effort and and Now we are working Diligently with this family sharing the love of God with him and it's not just a local church one local church effort is the church the local church coming together and and Impact and then God using that for a man to say hey, this is this is built back up my faith.

This is a miracle. And this is a this is a work of God and he was Giving God glory. And so, you know, my heart has just been full and I have a lot of stories I don't want to take a ton of time, but Brother Robert knows but Jeff I can talk a long time.

So I try not to buddy.

But.

But, you know, we have a lot of stories like that lately of just where Where people in in the most simple way we ask two questions. How can we pray for you? And and if you could ask God to do one major thing in your community.

What would that be and that sort of helps do two things one it is us the church petitioning God to do miraculous wonderful things in that community and. Then number two if there's something for your family that we could specifically pray for you or your family.

What would that be and and and those answers also give us? Ideas and direction of how the church Can respond and so it's it's just so exciting to see The scripture that Jesus taught us that let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father.

Which is in heaven. So I saw this man who who had lost a lot of hope in a very bad situation. And at the end of our conversation that he was just glorifying God. He was you know, it's not glorifying Any of us pastors or any church?

He was thankful and telling us. Thank you. But at the end of the day man, it was just just glorifying God and then we had one other situation where vertical life in the first Baptist there was a lady that that needed some help and A single mom and so, you know very tangibly not not as much hands and feet.

But even financially seeing the church to come together and bless this family that that they could have some needs met financially. And so and then that makes the inroads to to to spirituality to do deep spiritual things and it creates a relationship where there's credibility to talk about the gospel and the love of God and that's how I Left the conversation with the gentleman in his bedroom.

I said you'd need to understand that God really does love you. He sees you he loves you. He's not forsaking you and the message that I have for you is not to to get up and come to church. It's impossible for him to do that unless God does a miracle.

So the message for him is that God loves you. He's with you in this valley. And so there's just a ton of stories like that man there's a ton of stories that that's exciting and good news and stories of love and faithfulness and and then even as a pastor I get loved on too, which is just.

Wonderful, it's wonderful. Well, I want to wrap up what you said and mentioned three things before we move on to Jeff. Impact impact to them is the ministry use the word impact. Impact is the ministry that is bringing these local churches together in in pastor Jonathan's area and and that was out of the heart of Folks in the local area and you got folks within that who are Working to do community events and they Several have already taken place and there's a lot more coming up and then you have folks in that Community of fellowship there that are Leading the way in in the fight Against abortion in our area as the mission of those three things Are just other great things that God is doing in that area and there's like there's many more and and You said something that I'm going to come back to after Jeff finishes That I that I want to hold on to and it's kind of the main point of this.

So brother Jeff tell us what's going on in your ministry what you did for work and Where you pastor and what God is doing there and even give the website Of your business. I'd love to share it with folks.

Yes, so I I'm the owner and artist of post tinderbrush Lux Bible rebinding and our website is PTL Bible rebinding. Calm. So I just well if I'm a camera here, so I just make a handmaid weather Bibles. This is what I do to pay my bills.

I'm a bi-locational pastor for covenant reform Baptist Church Christus King Baptist Church and myself crisis King which is a church out and Upstate New York saw a need to plant a reformed Baptist Church in my area and so they sent me out to do so and I've Been pastoring in this area for about a little over a year.

I.

Go.

Street preaching probably about a block from my church and it's busy intersection. I normally get about four to twelve cars to stop. I haven't really seen a lot of fruit from it like people coming to my church, but I've been able to to witness the gospel to a lot of Unbelievers and cultural Christians.

I've.

Been able to pray with a lot of people when I go to Walmart. People recognize me because I'm in the neighborhood. I'm not going. You know downtown somewhere out of outside of where I'm at. I'm on a busy highway or a big parking lot is for people to pull over and talk to me.

I get my oil change people like hey, or are you that guy? You know our pizza man came by the other day and he's like man, I know you from somewhere. He's like, oh, you're the guy that preaches and so.

You know getting well known in my neighborhood for that and I do a lot of door knocking just inviting people to church. Again, I haven't seen a lot of fruit in that at the moment. But we're not you know, we haven't been doing it long.

I recently moved to Tallahama. So but I've been in street evangelism for about 10 years. I was originally ordained with the kind of like a Assemblies of God Church of God said. It's kind of weird because like the church that I was a part of I was going to a Assemblies of God college but the church.

Just kind of jumped ship from the Assemblies of God and they kind of partnered with the churches of God and became Independent basically and so then I switched schools to a Church of God or whatever, but I got ordained in that church.

But I just kind of set myself down because I was just struggling. You know, I guess the Baptist was coming out of me, you know. And so I just recently became ordained as a Baptist pastor as far as. You know my church family man.

So loving my churches. It's basically like a family reunion every week man. We we've kind of taken two verses from the Scriptures. Acts 2 42 says that they gather together for the teachings of the Apostles to break bread fellowship and pray and then Ephesians Chapter 5 it speaks about speaking to one another in psalm hymn and spiritual songs sing and make melody in your heart.

That's basically what our church looks like man. We We actually sing the psalms. We sing hymns. We. We fellowship and we pray with one another. A man stands behind the pulpit and explains the teachings of the Apostles.

We have the Lord's Supper every week and immediately after that we have a real meal together that's a part of our service and. And it's been wonderful. It's been wonderful.

So we've got Folks fighting against abortion. We've got church planting. We've got ministry in the neighborhood and I.

Can.

100 guarantee that there are Hundreds maybe probably thousands of stories like this that we'll never hear that God is doing and working in men's souls. Where they're they're preaching on the street.

They're preaching at the grocery store. They're going to the neighborhood they're doing ministry and. And God is working in in our neighborhoods and in men's hearts and. That that's why I wanted you guys to share because it's just an example.

I believe of what God is doing in this world right now and something that you you said Jonathan was kind of the the key to. To the one of the points that I wanted to make you said in your conversation with with the gentleman.

You said it was the Lord that that led you there. Nobody called you. It was the Lord that arranged this meeting and. All this all this kind of ties together with with our second question, but it wasn't.

An.

Impact the ministry that's bringing the churches together in your local community. It's it's not the the big machine that Making this happen. It's God doing this on the local level the grassroots level the the big machine that we thought for so many years was was gonna work and kind of be our Our Savior in reaching the world is.

I know there's been a lot of good in it and In our big conventions and The the big machine that sometimes we call it but God it God is really doing stuff on a local level. Apart from the big machines that we've seen raised up You know in our generations.

And that's what I wanted to point out. What what God is doing. And what do you guys see you kind of briefly going on in our nation? Well, I guess I can kind of share what's going on in my ministry. I'm trying to plug in in in the local church and minister there but here on the social media.

Ministry.

Man I'm really and there's so much negative So many negative videos out there as far as. You know things we don't need to watch things that we don't want to see or hear and there's even Bad bad theology out there people doing videos.

But I'm seeing more and more people doing doing videos on tick-tock, you know Christian tick-tock. There's so many people doing doing podcasts and video ministries and it's just growing and and I'm not I'm not discouraged by that that you know, some people say well everybody's doing it, you know, so it's.

It's kind of I don't know what you would say it's. You shouldn't get into it everybody's doing it but to me the more Jesus that's out there the more gospel that's out there. I mean to me that's what we as Christians should be doing it if you have a heart for.

You know doing videos the more the merrier. I think it's great that I'm seeing so many So many folks doing podcasts and in videos because to me that's what the kingdom is all about. All of life is about all of Christ and so if that's the avenue that you want to to be sharing, you know, the more the merrier to me and.

So.

With with the nation as a whole I See a lot of good going on as well. I remember what I was gonna say about the social media. We I get discouraged. I know everybody gets to discourage because we see Bad theology and bad teaching videos out there.

But the way I looked at it, I was thinking about it today the way I look at it is at first glance We've got and I know we would if we had our Preference we you know, we would regulate and say get that bad theology off there, but that's not how the system works.

Everybody everybody can speak everybody can do their videos or whatever. But the way I was looking at it was at first glance Truth and an error May look like they have buoyancy but over time false teaching and error is going to retain water and sink and the truth is going to remain and To me that's that's kind of the approach that I want to take, you know, I can't regulate Videos and we don't want the government to regulate videos and what what theology is out there?

But the more truth that's out there. It's gonna remain and that false that error. I think it's gonna eventually sink.

But even the Apostle Paul said that the Apostle Paul said it's very necessary. That there's conflict and so it can be proven what is true and what's false, you know. That's that's what he was talking about in his teaching there.

So so yeah, I think it's very important. And and what you're saying too is very important. It is. It's organic. You know, it's organic. It's it's celebration.

And.

And the principles of What what Jeffrey and they're doing there in their congregation what we're doing the principles are exactly the same our Sunday mornings probably look a Little bit different, you know, we don't do the Lord's Supper every week or a meal every week.

But the principles are the same and we do do the Lord's Supper and we we do have a meal Normally right after Lord's Supper. So that was pretty cool. I was I was enjoying that. So but it you know, I think the heart behind authentic community organic community family.

That it's that it's it's not the machine it's not building big mega ivory towers and it's associating with the lowly and it's it's walking together and weeping with those who weep and rejoicing with those who rejoice and and.

And it's a firm commitment to the whole Council of Scripture and it's not just a teaching. It's a living it out. And so Jeff, I'm thankful man that you're preaching in the street, brother I think it's something that that's.

That a lot of our pastors have created ivory pulpits and and they've forgotten What it is to to walk in the street and talk with people in? Conversation and then all of a sudden to if you say well, I'm a street preacher.

There's all there's tons of association with what a street preacher looks like, you know. Because we had street preachers do that would come on campuses at our seminaries that at I was at NC State University for a while and I Don't think he was very Effective at all of sharing the gospel.

Yeah.

So if you're gonna do straight preaching you have to be Approachable and you have to do it in love. Right, not not with the angry heart. And as far as what you were talking about with error. I mean We wouldn't have these great confessions and these and all these wonderful creeds If had not been for false teaching to arise and calls Thinking men to.

To.

Figure out what it is that we but the scriptures teach and so. You know like sometimes I like sometimes I'll get approached with a subject and they'll say well, what do you think about this? And there's times where I don't know.

I don't know. I have to look into it and I can hear the positive Argument for it and still not really get it until I hear the negative argument for it. I think I find out more of what I believe When I hear the negative side Than I do when I hear someone else Teaching on the right side of it.

I mean if that makes any sense.

So going back to the What's going on in our nation and what we may see going on in our nation that that we we see God is Moving doing great things. I'll start out and and just do it really quickly. I see more and more people Standing up against abortion in our nation more and more people and and they're not.

They're doing stuff. They're starting ministries. They're joining ministries. They're preaching. They're bringing people in they're saving babies. They're saving families. They're not just ministering.

They're not just handing out pamphlets, but they are ministering to families. And I see more and more people doing it and We have our debates with within ourselves. You've got the the big. I think it was called the heartbeat bill that that passed in Texas not too long ago.

And and I see both sides of it.

I.

Don't want to play the middle, but I see both sides. I see the one side where the abolitionists say How can you call that a victory. How can you call that a win. Because The the babies that are still being aborted Are losing and so it's it's not a win until you know.

We've abolished abortion and I feel that and I I'm on board with that. But then on the other hand They pass something which means there's people fighting. And that's encouraging that there's people fighting and so that's one thing that I see that God is doing in our nation right now.

What do you guys see?

Man I I don't want to be the negative Nancy I think our biggest problem is the church and Now I'm sure if we get theological You know us they are gonna have some some very Strong disagreements and and and they're worth debate.

They're worth art an argument, but they're not worth Hating one another over they're not worth fighting over and so on, you know, like when I you know me being a Postmillennialist I'm always approached with the Look how bad the world is.

What do you mean? It's gonna get better. And I'm like won't you so my problem is is I Like with me, I don't look at the world. Okay, heathens are gonna be heathens. Hallelujah, Hallebeck. I Look at the church okay, whenever me and I mean, you know if me and a brother and Christ even though we can't if we can't put our theological differences aside the secondary Issues aside and love one another There's a bigger problem going on.

And Biden being an office, okay.

Like.

Jesus said that you would know my people by their love for one another the this. One of the sins of first John is hating your brother. Okay, if you hate your brother, you're walking in darkness. Your prayers are hindered.

And I think man we. As the church we have to get off of our you know, well as the church individual. You know. We have to get off that theological pedestal that we put ourself on and and start loving our brothers.

You know me being reformed. I and you know, I gotta love my assemblies of God brother. You know, they gotta love me, too. Or they want to or not, but but but that's what a real change is going to come is whenever we Stop hating one another and stop debating on Facebook.

Okay, I mean Debating like this is okay. Debating in public is okay but debating on Facebook is ugly and. And and and it's where everyone can see us fight and argue with one another. And so again, I don't want to be a negative Nancy I.

Just I.

Don't see really a lot of things that are happening. Good. Because the church is is at odds with each other. We're not unified. Those who believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God. Those who believe in justification by faith alone.

We are.

Forgiven. And yet we hold grudges against people who ho to that same doctrinal faith as we do. And it's ugly and I and I think that that's the biggest change that we need. I mean you can pass all the abortion like abortion could end tomorrow If the church is still hating each other.

It's just something else gonna come down the pipe. Well, if you don't mind share What you were sharing with me before we start the video. It's gonna be from a unique perspective. What. How we understand what good looks like?

Because God God has a direction. He wants his people to go and we're gonna go that direction and it may take. It may take him doing something to get us going in that direction. And we've seen it before like you're talking about an axe.

Again I don't want to you know, I'm saying Play the reform card, you know, but as a reformed Christian, I believe that that God Ordains all things that come to pass. I believe it, you know. You know I'm such a Calvinist if this chair was to fall and break us and get back up and so I'm glad that's over with.

I mean, you know, I just I Believe that everything's done by God's hand and I believe that his will will be done no matter no matter what. You know, and so we see in the book of Acts. He tells us disciples To go into all the world and to preach the gospel that they were going to be the means the instrument by which the gospel would be preached and Yet they hold up in Jerusalem until the persecution comes.

You know God brings persecution and says, you know what I really meant that go Get out of here go into all the world. And you can kind of see that right now it's taken Abortion Roe vs. Wade being instituted for how many years now how many babies have died?

Before people have gone. I mean, I mean before you know We see a real movement take place that movement should have took place the moment that bill passed. Christians should have been out there. Yeah, and so and you know and Sometimes God's really got to To bring it to our doorstep in order for us to say I think he means it y 'all.

We better get to doing it. We better get to obeying the Great Commission. We better start Discipling baptizing and Teaching because Jesus really sent like he meant it. I mean, I mean that was our marching orders and and I mean again, I don't want to get into a theological conflict, but I just believe because of the Premillennial dispensational in times that people think the Antichrist is here.

They just lost hope of reaching their neighbor of loving their neighbor. That's just my opinion man and.

I.

Don't want to be a negative Nancy, but I.

Think it's cool and and I really understand see where you're coming from because it happened in the New Testament and If God Brings certain things into into place to get his people going in the direction.

They're supposed to be going. He's patient. You know you were talking about the years. And that have gone by and you're absolutely right. It should have taken place a long time ago the the fight against abortion, but but he is shown his patience like crazy with us and and now the The doom and gloom message that that we hear and see all the time.

Is it true? Yeah, there's a lot of bad things out there. But is it God doing something good so that he can receive the glory getting his people going in the right direction? Maybe so.

No, no, I think all things are going to work together for his glory. Yeah, I have a Again, I have a very positive Outlook outlook of what the outcome will be. I'm positive that the gospel is going forth.

I just think what really hinders us man is loving each other. I. Okay, but listen. Even if you disagree with me brother, I love you. Okay, if you need me, let's talk. And it doesn't matter if you disagree with my With with my with my input.

I'm still gonna love you. Yeah, I'm not gonna bad Matthew. I'm not gonna gossip behind your back.

You're fine brother you have freedom to speak as the Lord leads you and and. And we're the same same page there and that and and the end it is love and and and there's a journey involved with love to.

You know, I mean there's a. Any man that says when he comes to eschatology that I have it all figured out. That is not a man I'm willing to talk to but cause terrorists. That's just the same with salvation the mystery of salvation.

Any man that says he understands all the depths of salvation the mysteries of God. You know, I don't I don't want to talk to that guy.

Eschatology is really just a hot a hobby for me, man.

I'm growing in you know, I grew up. You know pre-millennial. You know pre-trib pre-millennial.

I'm probably.

I'm probably right now somewhere between that and Historical pre-millennial ism, but I'm hanging out with a lot of post-millennial guys. So You know what I'm saying, so it's kind of you gotta watch them post mill guys, man.

But but again we call them in our church family open-handed issues, you know that. That that we we greet each other with the open hand a handshake in that to where you know. It's not something we're going to fight over, you know where we have a joyful discussion debate.

We sharpen one another iron sharpening iron. Have you thought of this? Have you thought of that? That's out of context I've got a question about it. You know what I mean? All those kind of things we have.

And I'm preaching through the gifts of the Holy Spirit right now, you know. And and we are reformed but we're not cessation list and I know a lot of my reformed brothers are cessation list, but I'm not I'm not maybe where you're raised, you know the for the Baptist the Holy Ghost.

It's required to speak in tongues, you know as the evidence, you know, and but we're not there, you know, we we. We're sovereign list over that where in first Corinthians 12, the Holy Spirit gives gifts as he wills and so there's room.

But at the same time are we continuous to to an extreme? No, we're more continuous with the seatbelt I guess is what we say, you know, so it's so but there's journey there. There's process. There's there's things and and and kind of what come to my mind honestly while you were talking I didn't think about this prior to the gathering tonight, but I really think a positive thing is it.

Even though it's painful is what the church is going through right now. So I want to make two comments on that. So I think in our culture I think we're experiencing a lot of Hebrews 12 right now of the discipline of the Lord on the church and.

And in Hebrews 12, he says don't don't despise that. It's actually a good thing if there's a discipline going on in the body in the church on your life it's a good thing because that's evidence that that you're a child of his so.

But from a human point of view going through discipline. It may not it definitely don't feel good and we'd probably even say from a humorous perspective. It's not good. So from a spiritual side Let's say yeah, that's good.

I'm thankful for that but Definitely in the journey, it's like man, this is not fun at all. You know, I'm ready. I'm I'm ready for this to get over with just like you said about the tear-breaking I'm I'm ready to get out of this I want to learn what I need to learn repent for what I need to repent and move on, you know.