Can you lose your salvation?

Can you lose your salvation? Is it something that you can gain and then be have it taken away? That's what we'll talk about today on the wrap report.

The Rapp Report Introduction and the Question of Losing Salvation

Report with your host. Andrew reports where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of striving for eternity and the Christian podcast. For more content or to request a speaker for your church go to striving for eternity.

Welcome to another edition of the wrap report. Glad to have you with us. I am your host Andrew a wrap report and I am a joined by my friend in sunny.

Florida. A joined not conjoined. Just a joined. Okay joined. I'm just joined. Joined.

Good I see the Sun in the window there when sunny, Florida.

Well, it's it's light, but it's foggy out this morning.

So I just wonder one thing are you gonna keep the Sun when I come back down there in May? Like last time where there was no Sun and it was cold.

But the track record so far as you come to Florida and things just fall apart. It's just like a nor 'easter blows in or something. Oh.

Well, I will be. I will be your way in May. I'll be at Beulah Baptist Church. And that's gonna be May 7th 8th 9th and 10th. That's a Friday through Monday. We're doing a snatch them from the flames. That's in Winter Garden.

Just a just north of Orlando. Yeah, and that is going to be with Justin Peters. Dr. Anthony Sebestro myself. It's a discernment conference. We cover topics like. You know the sufficiency of scripture how to interpret the scriptures.

We're gonna have a session on social justice. Discerning that we're going to have a session on how to discern false teachers. How to identify false teachers. Both Justin Peters and I are going to be teaching on Sunday and then a Monday night Justin Peters will do a special session.

Something he's never done before but one on pragmatism in the church. So that's something to look forward to. You can get in touch with Beulah Baptist Church and their Winter Garden Florida if you're interested in joining us.

Since we're giving some events. I'm also going to be at in June the first week of June June 3rd to the 6th. We will be at the cruciform conference. Dr. Sebestro will be there Justin Peters and myself.

Will be there speaking at cruciform that the topic this year is just standing firm. The pre-conference will be on. I know dr. Sebestro is doing two I think two sessions on presuppositional projects at the pre-conference.

So you want to look go search for cruciform? Conference and get that detail. So with that out of the way, bud. Didn't plan on giving that announcement, but it's good for folks know where we're speaking.

We did get a review. Really? Yeah, and you were mentioned on it. Oh, oh, yeah. I know. It's bad because mentions your name. So here's what it says and this is this review came and I I don't know the person will mention an episode.

But I have no idea what episode it was because the reviews don't give us episodes. But it the review is a five-star review, which is surprising. I like that Refreshing so I don't know are you. I don't know which one of us is the stellar which ones the detailed.

Neither one of us are refreshing. I don't know but Here's the review. It says I've listened to a lot of various podcasts and sermons from Andrew, but the rap report is my favorite. Andrew often speaks with bud on major issues of today facing facing the Christian.

It is refreshing to hear deep solid truth that greatly assists Christians in their walk With their Lord. There are dot dot dot that's for some reason that's all that came in. It's one of the things with with the the reviews is they don't I'm actually gonna go out I'm gonna go out to my.

To the way that we get here we go so if I go to Love the podcast comm is the best way to leave a review is love the podcast comm. Slash rap report that's rap report to peace because from there I can actually read the whole thing.

Where I was reading was an email that came in from from them. And so it's cut off. So says I've I've had the oh wait, I should read where I left off. So They just reread that again, I'll let it this part out.

I've listened to a lot of various podcasts and sermons from Andrew. But the rap report is my favorite. Andrew often speaks with bud on major issues of today facing the Christian. It is refreshing to hear deep solid truth That greatly assists Christian Christians in their walk with their Lord.

There are too few strong Christian leaders like Andrew and bud. Willing to go into such great length to share the truth. I've had the pleasure I'm gonna question this. I've had the pleasure to meet Andrew multiple times.

I try I Tried to share his podcast with as many Receptive Christians as I can because I know they will great be greatly blessed by his teaching. Keep up the godly or keep up the great godly work your brother in Christ Kevin so so we thank him for the review and He even speaks highly of you bud.

What impressed me the most. Honestly, he noted that you were speaking with me and not at me. Not would not be Uncalled for. Certainly, but I was appreciative of that. Thank you, Kevin.

The Nature of Salvation as Imputation

So we are we appreciate the fact that we do like to get into detail. We do like to and we're gonna do that in this episode. We want to jump in because there is a thing that for many people struggle with this issue, but about Can I lose my salvation?

There's a lot of Christians that are Dealing with this there's there is a belief that some say you can lose your salvation some say you cannot and One of the things that I find often is the fact that for many Christians there's an there's a Lack of an understanding of what the nature of salvation is.

And so we want to do today is go over the nature of salvation. Let's look at what salvation actually is before we answer the question. Can we lose our salvation and Then we're gonna get into why people struggle with this question.

Experientially theologically, it's a different issue. There there's some things we will deal with with that as well from a theological perspective. So let's start with this we talk about salvation and We have to first understand what is salvation.

I Think that one of the clearest text at least the most detailed texts. With this you can look at the entire book of Romans Galatians. But let me start with one verse. I think this is the clearest verse when we talk about salvation and it is When we look at 2nd Corinthians 521 I Use this as this is salvation in one verse in fact, this describes what I would call salvation in one word and the one word is the the theological term.

Where we basically have the Its imputation is the theological term it is the idea that we see here in 2nd Corinthians 521 where it says He made him who knew who knew no sin To be sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God.

So the imputation here that's being discussed is the our sin is being imputed Put upon Christ and his righteousness is put upon us. I think that's salvation in a nutshell. It's the clearest Simplest way of explaining what salvation is.

Yeah, don't miss the last don't miss the last two words that him that verse in him. Yeah.

Because the thing that we see in this is this is really encapsulates The core of what is salvation? We no longer have sin. It was our sin and and I'll note this the sin is singular. Not plural. Why is that a big deal?

When people make a mistake or they say well you have to repent of your sins. They don't think through that that's actually a heresy. It's actually works righteousness. We don't repent of the works that we do.

Like stop doing those and turn to Christ. It's sin singular. It means our pride our sin nature that thing that we're we're doing everything for self. That's what we turn from we turn from self that's selfishness that pride and turn to Christ.

But that pride is what brings about all the the actual acts of sin that we do. So it's really encompassing in that sense of all of our sin. Because it's all rooted in the pride. So all of our sin was laid upon Christ and Then we in Return get his righteousness, but we have to be in him and that means through Christ.

So what you see in this is you see that Christ isn't is it cannot just be a human being? He has to be something beyond that because he has the righteousness of God that a human being doesn't have he cannot give us that Righteousness if he doesn't possess that righteousness, which is saying here that he is God why because he has the righteousness of God.

So one of the things you see in this is that Jesus is God. That's the who the in him is is Christ when you look at the context. So we have to recognize Christ as God. That he died for our sins. He took our sins upon himself and he gives to us an exchange Right his righteousness.

This is what Martin Luther referred to as the great transaction and The idea of imputation is probably the simplest. I remember in when I was in seminary. This is the thing but that seminarians do think of really stupid questions to ask each other to figure out How mundane we could we could be?

One of one of the discussions was How can you know, what is this? When you think about the gospel What is the absolute basic? What is it that you how? Articulate can you be using as few words to define the gospel and I came up.

Well, I I had Romans 8 and 9. When you look at sorry Romans 10 8 9 when you look at Romans 10 8 9 It says but what do you what does it say? The word I'm sorry reading verse verse 8 just for context. The word is near you.

In your mouth in your heart. That is the word of faith. Which we are preaching that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. You will be saved for with the heart a person believes.

Resulting in righteousness and with the mouth confession resulting in salvation. So I thought okay, we got two things Right that you see here confession and belief. So I thought okay that that would I thought I had it down to two words and then one of the other guys said Imputation and I realized he then only answered it better.

And so I had two verses and he had one verse so he got me both ways but I think that that really does encapsulate it very well is. We first have to understand what? Salvation is that this is Christ Taking our sin upon himself and in exchange giving us his righteousness.

Ephesians 1 and the Trinity in Salvation

I Think this will be helpful when we get into the question of whether you can lose your salvation. When we think about what salvation is, however, there's another passage bud. That we should look at. It's a little bit of a longer passage and and this is one of these ones.

This is Ephesians chapter 1 and The thing I like about Ephesians chapter 1 is because of the fact that it helps me to feel better about the fact that I was always in trouble in school in English class for these run-on sentences and.

And I'm glad that when I read the scriptures, I realized that Paul has a run-on sentence.

This is where John Owen. If you've ever read the Puritan John Owen, this is where he learned it. You can start on page 1 and 5 pages later you finally find the periods.

This is a Ephesians chapter 1. 3 Down to 14 is one sentence one very long sentence. And so but how about how about you read those those 11 verses for us.

Okay, Ephesians 1 3 through 14. And this will be from the LSB, oh.

So Translation right so everyone knows. Yeah, I'm waiting for Shepherds Conference to get mine, but I want to give it when we have the full. You know the full Bible right now. They just have New Testament and Proverbs and Psalms, so I'm waiting for.

The whole thing. No, I've been reading the New Testament. I've Been into my day. Oh, I love it. I have said you get to Psalms and Yahweh you see that everywhere. And then it's just really refreshing. Anyway back to Ephesians and to Paul's long sentence.

Ephesians chapter 1 verse 3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. Just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we would be holy and blameless before him in love.

By predestining us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself According to the good pleasure of his will to the praise of the glory of his grace Which he graciously bestowed on us in the blood of it in him.

We have redemption through his blood the forgiveness of our transgressions according to the riches of his grace Which he caused to abound to us in all wisdom and insight. Making known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in him.

For an administration of the fullness of times that is the summing up of all things in Christ. Things in the heavens and things on the earth in him in him. We have also been made an inheritance Having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things.

According to the counsel of his will to the end that we who have first hoped in Christ Would be to the praise of his glory in him. You also after listening to the word of truth the gospel of your salvation.

Having also believed you were sealed in him with the Holy Spirit of promise Who is given as a pledge of our inheritance unto the redemption of God's own possession to the praise of his glory.

Now that's a very long sentence, but it's packed. One of the things I love about this passage is it shows all three members of the triunity Involved in our salvation. You see God the Father you see Jesus Christ the Son and you see a spirit all together working in salvation.

And so I want to break this down but as we look at the idea of the nature of salvation right off the bat in verse 3 We're seeing blessed be the God and the Father Lord Jesus Christ who blessed us with what.

With every spiritual blessing. So we don't lack anything. We have we have every spiritual blessing. That we that we need so the this has. I mean, you know. This actually has a if you think about maybe the charismatic movement these days where they're always looking for more spiritual blessings.

Are more revelation or yeah, there's nothing more than we have every spiritual blessing. He blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. It's funny because you know as you read through this in Christ and in him is throughout.

All over it. No wonder we have solus Christus Christ alone. It's one of the five solos. Because he.

How do we get? Salvation other than through Christ and that's what this this text is gonna help us to see but notice. Not only does he give us every spiritual blessing but verse 4 and this becomes an important thing.

Just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. Okay that we would be holy and blameless before him. This is a key passage to look at so let's break this down. So God chose us now. I know there's some who go no, no, no way.

I believed I believed. The idea that God chose us before the foundation of the world some people go. Well, okay before there was time God picked people you're gonna be saved. You're not you're gonna be saved.

You're not and they believe that is what we would hold to. However, let's think about something God being a being who created the the time matter space continuum. I Believe that he is outside of time.

He's not bound by time. He can work within time. But he's not a being That is bound by time. In other words there is hard for us not to comprehend this but I believe that for God There was a time before there was time.

I Don't know how else to say that. So what does it mean before the foundation of time? What I think he's getting at is before there was a creation. God in his omniscience. He's all-knowing he didn't learn anything.

This is something that we don't often think about. God never learned anything. He never had a bright idea. He just knows everything. There's nothing that is Happened is happening will happen that he did not know about.

He knows everything even though he knows it outside of time. So everything to him is the same eternal now. I mean we're sitting doing this recording right now. Our listeners are listening to it later.

And yet Christ is on the cross. Abraham's act of sacrificing Isaac. You know. Everything is the same point in time is I mean, it's a hard concept for us to understand so I think when he says before the foundation of time what what our Lord is trying to tell us is.

Basically baby talk is this this is the simplest way I can explain it when we talk to babies we dumb things down for Children, we make it simple well We cannot comprehend what it means time before time.

Right. We can't understand what it means before the foundation of the world. But the idea of it is that we had nothing to do with it. God chose us before the Before the world existed. In other words, he's trying to say that there is is not based on merit or anything.

It's based on his choice. He chose why. I Can't answer that but he chose Without us having any involvement in it. That's what it means before the foundation of the world. It's to say that's before before there was a world.

He had already made his decision. But what did he choose us for? Because look in this verse that we would be holy and blameless before him. So as we stand before him He sees us as holy and blameless. But when you and I look at each other, we don't quite look at each other as holy and blameless on this side heaven.

No, I look at you with complete piety. I think that you were really up there. So Lying is a sin my friend. That Is the ninth commandment violation there it's jesting a sin. That's what I need to know.

Yeah, there's a point to the there's a point to his election and that's what we're talking about here. In this verse particularly is his election there's a point to it and The point is that we would be holy and blameless before him.

How are we gonna do that Andrew?

Well We we can't do that. Ultimately God does it through love and we're gonna get there. But there's something more that we if we keep looking at this. We're not only we are we made chosen to be holy and blameless, but look what he says in the very next verse in verse 5 He predestined us To adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself.

So he the idea of predestined or a foreknowledge that he knows ahead of time. Now again, this is a strange term to use. For a being that knows everything. For a being that is outside of time. But how else could he communicate the concept that he has here that this is all based on what God has has in his mind and How he's gonna work everything in creation.

So he predestined us in other words He he not only chose us to be holy and blameless, but he predestined us to be adopted into his family in Christ. So it's because of Christ through Christ and Christ alone that we can be adopted into his family and This is according to the kind intention of his will.

So again, who's who who do we put all this on this is God notice the emphasis here it's all God's planning. God the Father's planning of our salvation. Okay, and it's to the praise and glory of his grace.

So he gets all the glory Which he freely bestows on us. So notice he's the one bestowing this we're not having say in this in a sense we're gonna get to whether we do have a say in it, but What we see here is that God is sent laying out that this was something he decided long ago before the world existed.

Now as we think about the nature of salvation we end up seeing that. You see in verse 7, what do we how do we have redemption. We have redemption through Christ. The forgiveness of trust of our trespasses.

So it's in Christ. You're seeing that this is the again no, he is God doing all this laying out this plan Christ is providing that Solution to to our salvation. He's providing the salvation. So you have God the Father is the planner.

God the Son is the provider we see it's through him and him alone That the riches of his grace which he lavished on us. So he's one Pressing this to show you us What scripture says is the force behind our salvation?

It is all God God the Father you're seeing the emphasis on Christ the provider That he made known the mystery according to his kind intentions Which he purposed on him notice again. It's his intention.

It's his planning. It's his provision and it doesn't stop with the Sun. Because we we drop down to verse 13 and we see that knowing is God the Father the planner. God the Son is the provider. But God the Spirit is the protector.

We see here. It says in him you also after listening to the message of truth the gospel of your salvation and Having believed so this is now dealing with people who have believed having believed you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise who gave a pledge of our inheritance With a view to redemption on God's own possession To the praise of his glory.

So what you see here is the Holy Spirit himself is the seal of our salvation. So when we say that someone is saved what we see is God the Father planned it before there was a creation God the Son provided it at the cross.

We're gonna get there in a moment and then the Holy Spirit Protects us protects it by being the seal. He the the personal Holy Spirit is the seal of our salvation and it says the Holy Spirit of Promise who has given us a pledge of his inheritance.

This is something that Many Jewish people would understand this is Goes back to Ezekiel Jeremiah 29 29 and following in Ezekiel 36 where what you end up seeing is this is the idea of a the New covenant that the Jewish people would look forward to in it in Ezekiel 36 25 and following We have the same reference That Paul I think is referring to in this passage in Ephesians 1 it says there in Ezekiel Starting at verse 25 then I will sprinkle clean water on you and make you clean.

I will cleanse you from all your filthiness from all your filthiness. This is the promise He's gonna cleanse us of all our filthiness and all your idols moreover, I Will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh and then here's where it's different verse 27 I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and You will be careful to observe my ordinances.

You will live in the land that I give you to your forefathers so that you will be my people and I will be your God moreover I will save you from all uncleanness and I will call the grain and Multiply it and I will not bring a famine to you.

I will you know, he goes on there. And so what you end up having here is a promise that God would do something that in the Old Testament We only saw at different at certain times. We'd see men like Saul or David we would see the Spirit come upon men for leadership.

But we don't see in the Old Testament the Spirit coming upon every believer so I think what's being referenced here in Ephesians is the fact of the new covenant that the Jewish people would look forward to and That is that there would be a time as it says in Jeremiah 29.

Is I'm saying 29 now. I'm thinking it's I'm I don't think it's I'm totally off on that one. I think it's 25. I got a look. All right, I Will edit that too. I'll have to put that in 31 that's what it was so if we look and I Got the passage from earlier in Jeremiah.

It's Jeremiah 31 31 and following. But what you see in this in in there is a reference to the fact that We no longer will need priests between these two passages. What do we look forward to in the new covenant that?

God himself in the personal Holy Spirit will indwell us and in that indwelling We would we would have the Holy Spirit who would illuminate our minds to an understanding of God's Word and the application of it.

God himself in the personal Holy Spirit is the seal. He's the down payment. So we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when we get saved. We are baptized with the Holy Spirit doubt for people that are in the charismatic circles.

This is different than filling of the Holy Spirit and it's different than the way charismatics refer to this so let me define this a little bit bud for folks because sometimes there's confusion is when people talk in the charismatic circles they will talk about the fact that Someone gets saved and then they start speaking in tongues and they refer to that speaking in tongues as baptized in the Spirit.

In other words now they have the gifts of the Spirit. What we end up seeing. I don't have time in this episode to do this. Maybe we'll do it another. We look at the what happens at salvation. We we get at the moment of salvation we are baptized in the Spirit that means we're we're immersed.

For our Presbyterian friends. That's what baptism Oh means to be plunged immerse. Dip, so we are plunged with the Holy Spirit. He doesn't just sprinkle himself on us. And he indwells us so we're baptized with the Spirit.

That's the idea of the indwelling of the Spirit. That is a one-time event that we are. We're filled with the Spirit he comes in and dwells us. This is different than the filling of the Spirit the filling of the Spirit is when we think of in the Old Testament, and that's when the Spirit would come upon someone and For leadership or for for service and that can come and go.

Okay, so that's where there's some confusion with this. So when the charismatics say that you get gifts after you're saved. If you look at 1st Corinthians 12 13 and 14 you end up seeing that we're all baptized into one spirit into one church when we Are saved so we get those gifts at salvation.

So the emphasis that we see here is that through the Holy Spirit when we believe as It says here in Ephesians verse 13 Having also believed you were sealed with him In him with the Holy Spirit of promise who's given the pledge of our inheritance our inheritance.

That's future to us. That's a moment we die. He is going to protect our salvation until we die. He is that pledge. Okay to break that seal you'd have to be greater than God. To break the seal. That's the idea here that the idea of a seal is that that Only someone who has the authority to open it can open it and The Holy Spirit is the one that is the seal only God himself has the authority to break the seal.

Assurance, the Holy Spirit, and the New Covenant

Okay, so so with that so far, but anything you want to add to that.

No, I don't think so. I think that you're gonna lead into the question that we were gonna also talk about is Can you lose your salvation. And I think part of that is is because people don't know Truly these days what the effects of salvation should look like now these things have happened.

These are forensic Truths that Paul is giving to us here. And they have implications. It's not merely head knowledge of doctrine. They actually have implications. So that I know that's what you're gonna go into.

Yeah, because I think a lot of people bud Because they don't have a good foundation of what salvation is. That's where the struggle is. I mean we're seeing in Ephesians 1 God is the one that it's laying out the plan providing the the plan and Protecting the plan.

I mean this is all the Trinity, but then we get into this fact that in Ephesians 1 We're seeing that this was done before the foundation of the world. This was laid out all Before there was time before any of us were even a conception so.

Not of course to God he had the conception but not to not to you know people like we didn't exist but here's the other thing a lot of people don't understand in a struggle for many is They they see that they made a profession of faith, but then they are living in some sin and they start to question their salvation.

Now there are passages and I'm gonna include in my in the show notes here an article that I wrote on Hebrews 6 because many people will argue that Hebrews 6 teaches that you can lose your salvation and There are different passages in the Bible where people use to theologically make an argument.

You can lose your salvation. The issue is that what I end up seeing in those passages is they are typically talking about false converts someone who is a hypocrite. They make profession of faith, but they don't actually believe.

Yeah, and so I'll give you that article to read in more detail.

And that's worth a study because you need to really understand Who is the author of Hebrews talking about and until you clarify that sure you could come away thinking. Oh my goodness I can I can lose my salvation.

It's written right here. No, no, you need to understand that the the text there and who the target audience is that he's Talking to and who he is also talking about.

And this is the thing that we have to do with all these texts is is to dig in and interpret them and when we do We work through these texts as we've just done with in Ephesians. Briefly you end up realizing that God is making it really clear that we had nothing to do with the salvation.

He had everything to do with it. And so you come to Colossians. Let it turn to Colossians to if you're not driving if you're driving just listen. Don't take your hands off the wheels. Just listen but for the rest of us open your Bibles to Colossians chapter 2 verses 13 and 14.

Because verse 14 is going to be very important in this area because part of this question is When was I forgiven and what was I forgiven of when I was I forgiven? I asked this question often to people.

I recently in my apologetics live podcast did a debate with someone on Calvinism and The issue I asked him is when were your sins forgiven? At the cross or when you believed. And he said when I believed and many people believe that.

Let's see what Scripture says 2nd Corinthians 2 13 no Colossians, sorry. Thank you. Oshins. Yeah 13 See, that's what I got you to keep me on when you were dead in your transgressions and Uncircumcised in your flesh he made you alive together with him.

Having forgiven us of all our transgressions, so let's stop there and just look at what's 13 is saying first off. We were dead in our transgressions. We needed him to make us alive notice that what's happening there.