December 18, 2018 Show with Jack Wilkie on “Failure: What Christian Parents Need to Know About American Education”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 18th day of December 2018, one week before Christmas Day, and I am excited to have for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio today,

Jack Wilkie. He is one of the editors of Think magazine, he's a preacher for the

Forney Church of Christ in North Texas, and the editor and manager of social media and online content for focuspress .org.

Today we are going to be addressing the theme of his book, Failure, What Christian Parents Need to Know About American Education, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jack Wilkie.

Hi Chris, thanks for having me. Hey, it's my pleasure. This is, I think, a very important book for education in the 21st century as things are rapidly and have been crumbling for years in the education system, but they are getting to the point of actual mind -boggling insanity when it comes to especially the public or the government school system.

But how did you get so wrapped up in the field of education and have such a burden for it upon your heart?

Well, at Focus Press, one of the things we do is just focus on families, you know, and youth faithfulness, and it's something

I started to notice growing up, and you start reading all those statistics about how many fall away, and we started drawing the lines and connecting the dots and realizing how much that had to do with education.

And as you mentioned, the corruption of it and the way it is turning away from God, it's been on a downhill path for really for decades, but as we can see, it's just getting faster and faster all the time, how quickly education is moving away from God, and so we started connecting those dots as to why so many young people leave the church and how they're educated, what they grow up learning.

In fact, I'm gonna give our email address right away for our listeners, if you care to join us on the air with a question of your own for Jack Wilkie about American education.

Well, it doesn't have to be specifically about American education, even though that is primarily the target of his book.

We do have listeners all over the world if you have questions about education in general. Our email address is

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a private matter.

Why don't we start where your book starts, the casualties of the worldview wars.

Tell us about who they are. Well, yeah, it's just that generation, you know. I started looking around and noticed, you know, as I'm 29 now, most congregations

I visit, most churches I've been a part of, don't have people my age anymore, especially in smaller churches.

Of course, the bigger churches draw more people in, and so they've got higher numbers of young people, but most churches you go to in America, there's going to be a generation gap where there's just people in a 20 -year age range who are missing.

And so there are these worldview wars going on, and, you know, I started asking, why have they left the church?

Why are they not staying? You know, the statistics from various studies have gone from, some say 50 % leave the church, some say 60,

I've seen one as high as 88%. If I had to guess, I'd say 70%, 75, somewhere in there.

So three out of four are leaving the church. And you start to ask why, and I think, as I referenced in the chapter,

Barna did a study that really opened my eyes. The Barna group, of course, does so much good research, and one of their studies found that they asked about the six basics of the

Christian, a basic Christian worldview. You believe the Bible is inspired, you believe there's a triune God, you believe in that there's a

Satan, you believe in heaven and hell and salvation by faith. Again, just very basic things. They found that,

I think it was only one in ten Americans actually believed that, but when you go to people in that college age range, 18 to 23, one out of every 200 agrees with those premises.

And so why are young people leaving the church? Because they don't think like Christians. They have not been taught and led to believe in the basic foundations of the

Christian faith, and so, you know, you see why they've left the church. Why would you keep going to the church if you didn't really believe in the

God of the Bible, or you didn't believe in the inspiration of the Bible? You didn't believe in heaven and hell or sin and any of these things?

Then yeah, you would wander too, and so when we ask why are the numbers so high, that one statistic to me said everything.

That, again, one in 200 from 18 to 23 years old believed the very basics of Christianity.

Wow. Now, when you're referring to the worldview wars, what are the primary worldviews in conflict with each other?

It's kind of interesting because anti -christian movements throughout the centuries have not all remained exactly the same, and even within my lifetime, that which is known as liberalism or today, more appropriately, leftism, even leftist totalitarianism, is not the same exactly as when

I was a younger man. It's kind of interesting, for instance, that those on the left used to consider themself, and in some ways they were right, they used to consider themselves champions of freedom of speech, freedom of thought.

The liberal wanted inclusion with everyone else at the table of discussion on ideology, on politics, they wanted to be considered equals in the public square, and now in the 21st century we have something very different from that.

We have people who are opposed to freedom of speech, even though they might never utter those words exactly like that.

It is obvious they are. They have become the thought police. It used to be considered that the fundamentalist

Christians were the thought police. Now the leftists are the thought police, and they are even devouring themselves at the moment because there are different brands of liberalism.

You have those who have been caught up in sexual freedom, have been branded as misogynists and as using women as sex objects, so you have even people in their own ranks losing their jobs, losing their livelihoods, some of them even getting arrested, and some of them paying very large sums of money in lawsuits.

But tell us about what you're talking about today, primarily as far as the worldview conflict, those worldviews in conflict with each other.

Right, so we would hold a Christian worldview, of course, you know, that those things I mentioned that the God of the

Bible is the real Bible, Jesus is, you know, God in the flesh, who came in the flesh, was raised from the dead, and all of the truths that that encompasses.

The world goes one of two ways, and kind of a combination of both a lot of times. First is secular humanism.

I think people hear that term sometimes, but they're not quite sure what it is. It really kind of came out of the modernist era, the

Enlightenment era, where we started making such scientific leaps forward, and so it said, you know, science is all we need.

And you see people denying God on those bases of saying, you know, we've got science, we don't need

God, and we, you know, we've got observation and all these things. The problem with that is there's no moral, ethical standard that that follows, and so it all becomes very naturalistic, very humans -as -God -at -the -top -of -the -food -chain, and the question of basically how they determine their morality is, you know, whatever works best, kind of, and justifies the means, consequentialist, you know, very looking at what moves society forward, what achieves things that we find desirable, well then that must be good.

And so you see a lot of secular humanism, you see, you know, so much of the militant atheist has come about in the last 50 years of the

Dawkins and people like that who, as you mentioned, you know, at first these movements were just wanting a place at the table, and then they came in and started shoving everyone else out.

And so you just see so much of that. I mean, you see it on bumper stickers, you see it, you know, on people's

Facebook profiles, the things that they accept and that they, they don't realize they're promoting this ideology, but secular humanism is incredibly dominant.

But I think that is even becoming more outdated. The millennial Generation Z view, there's still that emphasis on science, you see, but we're more post -modernist than anything.

Again, that's another term people hear a lot, but it's so much about relativism, of determining your own truth.

And, you know, people have those terms of, oh, I've got to speak my truth, and what's right for you isn't what's right for me, and, you know, we've all got to determine our own way, and, you know, it's, it, humanism made human the god, humanity the god, so that we all collectively, kind of as a society, decide what works and work toward that.

Post -modernism said, no, every individual human is god of their own sphere. Now, of course, with both of these, you can poke holes in it as to how limited it is, because with the post -modernism, they say, well, what works for you works for you.

Well, and you'd say, well, you know, what about Adolf Hitler? Was he right? Was he choosing his own truth?

You will find some who say, yeah, I can't say Hitler did anything wrong, but most of them would say, well, no, we know that racism is wrong.

And so there's these great inconsistencies, but they don't really care, because they're able to silence

Christianity, they think. They're able to, you know, shove away anything that they don't agree with, but when you question them back, they don't accept it.

And so, to see Christian kids try and blend this with Christianity, you end up with a lot of the errors we're seeing in the religious world today, that basically we make ourselves

God, but we still want religion, and so we try and, you know, force God into our own way.

When people, I wrote an article the other day about the sexual revolution going to church, about churches just openly, you know, flaunting sexual immorality of, you know, there's a church in Denver that has a pastor of fabulousness, and it's a gay man who dresses in drag and comes to church, but they consider themselves a church that worships

God. But that's where you have this post -modernism blending with Christianity, and so you've got these hybrid worldviews that are just making these abominations of Christianity, and so kids are having to choose to either leave

Christianity behind, because they don't believe in it, or try and co -opt it with combining it with something else.

It's making a mess of everything. People don't know what they believe. Yeah, you mentioned the

Nazis before. I organized a number of years ago a live public moderated debate between my friend

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, who is a Christian apologist, and he debated

David Silverman, the president of American Atheists, which is the organization that Madeleine Murray O 'Hare founded in the 60s.

And David Silverman basically said that morality and truth are based on what a majority of people in any given region, in any given era of history, believe to be so.

So James White basically said, well, I'm assuming then that the

Nazis, since it seems that the majority of the German peoples were following this ideology and following their leader

Hitler favorably, at least for a period, that that ideology of anti -Semitism and brutality and murder and so on against those outside of the quote -quote white

Aryan race was a moral conduct and a moral ideology.

And Mr. Silverman had to actually acquiesce and admit that that was true.

And James White said, do you mean to tell me that if you were being marched through the gates of a death camp in Auschwitz or Dachau, the worst thing that you could say or the the most that you could say in protest against what was happening to you is

I find this personally offensive? That's the best you could come up with during that situation?

And he agreed, he admitted that was true. And keep in mind, keep in mind David Silverman is ethnically

Jewish in addition to being an atheist. So it is absolutely mind -boggling what lengths people in the left will go to to affirm their beliefs and try to make sense out of them.

In fact, you mentioned science before, that's another thing that's changed because obviously liberals, although they were incorrect, for centuries have been saying that science is what is the the arbiter of truth is and that science very often trumps the

Bible, they would say. And of course when it comes to Darwinian evolution and so on, that they were and are completely wrong.

There is no scientific evidence proving Darwinian evolution. But today it's just the leftists are doing exactly what they accuse

Christians of and religious people in general. They are believing in fairy tales and declaring them as truth and even disregarding basic science, saying that a biological male child or adult should be should be declared a female if that child or adult believes in his mind that he is female and vice versa obviously with a with a girl or woman thinking that she is male.

I mean it's reached a point of absolute lunacy. Right, well

I mean there's so many examples you could take that you know that it's kind of funny people dug up videos from the 90s where even

Bill Nye, who is a staunchly anti -christian boy for science, you know you can find videos of him saying well these chromosomes determine what's a male and a female.

Well now of course he's not allowed to say that anymore, that's flipped. Or you could look at abortion, you know, with all the scientific evidence we have there is just literally no way to say that's not a human being.

You know the whole clump of cells argument they used to make, all of these things came from that ideology and now science definitively tells them that's not how it is and they just ignore science.

And so it really is a matter of convenience in so many ways but you know that they don't really care and you know as far as actually being intellectually consistent with their beliefs and so you have this being taught to kids from a very early age both the secular humanist view and postmodernist view.

I remember when I was five years old they used to have school -wide assemblies you know about living in harmony that we're all different but it's okay we need to tolerate each other and that word tolerate

I remember even as a five -year -old hearing that over and over and over and you know they presented it as a good thing and I think there is a very good thing of hey you know somebody's a little different from you that doesn't mean you get to bash them or make fun of them or whatever else but you start to see how that rhetoric that they put into kids minds from five years old is what my generation now spews about everything.

Well you can't judge me you need to tolerate everyone else and you know and we'll probably get to this a little bit later on about my chapter on sexual ethics in the school that was the plan.

An openly homosexual man who's worked in the government you know pushing school agendas said here's what we're going to do we're going to talk a lot about bullying we're going to talk a lot about safety and tolerating one another and that's the door that's going to open up for us to get in our sexual ethics into the schools because of course nobody's going to say well no you can't have this seminar on bullying you can't do these things about you know school safety and so that was his plan he was going to frame it as that kind of thing and so you can just see the progression of these worldviews taking advantage of these openings the dishonesty of it again with the science that they they claim science but they deny it and so you wonder well how did we end up with kids who don't have a biblical worldview well because they've just been metaphorically baptized in these other worldviews for you know 13 14 years and of course the modern leftist idea of tolerance is a lie because they only tolerate people who agree with their worldview you you cannot in their mind be a conservative

Bible believing Christian and I would even dare to say Orthodox Jew who actually believes in the

Torah and the Hebrew Scriptures that we are to be silenced we are to be kept from school boards we are to be driven out of political office we are not to be tolerated it is very clear from many on the left that they want us eradicated from the face of the earth

I'm not saying that they are all as disturbed as Hitler or Stalin and actually want us physically to be executed but they definitely want us to be silent and in fact silence isn't enough for them the the homosexual left is not satisfied with our silence or our tolerance they want us separated yes they want us to be want us to celebrate them they want us to publicly declare the the wonders and joy of their sexual choices and the way that they identify themselves sexually and so on and that is why typically on a mainstream network television network during a news broadcast you will never see an anchor man or an anchor woman or reporter straight -faced giving an unbiased neutral report on a famous celebrity marrying somebody of their own gender they will be beaming with smiles they will offer congratulations to them they will wish the happy couple a long and happy marriage you don't see the the

Walter Cronkite's anymore giving just straight -faced news reports without injecting their own personal opinions into the story right the agenda is king for everything and as you mentioned it's not an agenda that's set in a certain direction other than anti -christian because you see you know you've got the feminist the modern feminist movement about the strength of females and the uniqueness of females and all these things at the same time at the transgender movement which basically says there's nothing particularly special about male or female you can just decide to be one one day and decide you're not the next you can be fluid and so you've got conflicting ideals being pushed at the exact same time you have the same thing with you know

Islam we're supposed to celebrate Islam this religion of peace and yet Islam says to put homosexuals for death and they actively do that in the

Middle East and so you know if that was something that Christians pushed of course you'd hear it non -stop about how bigoted

Christians are and so there's no consistency in it the only consistent point to it is

Christianity is not to be tolerated that's one of the most bizarre aspects of the left is of course they're not a monolith in regard to Islam there are liberals like Bill Maher and others who are outspoken against the atrocities of Islam and they will try to remind their liberal and leftist friends that they are describing an imaginary Islam if you're talking about the

Islamic religion that is absolutely faithful to the Koran and the Hadith you know you do have some liberals but it seems in the media anyway that they are a minority that that are opposing

Islam most seem in the media and that there is a big difference between the media and what goes on behind cameras instead of in front of them but it makes no sense that leftists who would abhor

Christians for being opposed to homosexual activity would give a pass to Muslims on it and I have to believe that much of this praise given to Islam is disingenuous it's not real it's just a mask of the liberal concept that we have to stand for the rights of people of color quote -quote and because the majority of Muslims are non -white people even though there are many who are white or Caucasian but it seems that that's the only logical reason that they can cling to praising

Islam even though they are as you were saying much more severe and not only their criticism but their physical action towards those that violate

Quranic law and the laws of the Hadith in in countries that are under Sharia law and it's not just homosexuality it's women who are victims of rape which is utterly amazing you will have women who are the actual victims of rape if they can't get enough eyewitnesses to stand behind her testimony she is very often stoned to death for being an adulteress or a fornicator right so I mean it's just it's utterly mind -boggling when we get back

I want you to get into the history of American education so our listeners can actually hear the gradual de -evolution of of what has happened in the

American education system from when it began to the current day and once again if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own and we do have some people waiting to have their questions asked and answered already but if you'd like to join them if you want to get in line send us an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com

please give us at least your first name your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter don't go away we'll be right back with Jack Wilkie and more of our discussion on failure what

Christian parents need to know about American education hi

Phil Johnson here I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry grace to you and I'm also an occasional guest on iron sharpens iron radio so I'm delighted that from January 17th through the 19th my friend

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John Riesinger trailblazer for the doctrines of grace in the mid 20th century we are now back with our guest

Jack Wilkie author of failure what Christian parents need to know about American education and our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

chris arnzen gmail .com please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter before we go to any of the listener questions that are beginning to mount up if you could

Jack give us a bit of a history lesson on education in America all right as most people know education in America really started with a very

Christian religious bent you know the Luther Satan Act was one of the first institutions of education in America from a government standpoint where in Massachusetts they said you know our children need to learn the scriptures and so if a town was over a certain size legally they would have a hire a teacher to come and teach the children to read

Puritans in Massachusetts really drove this educational push to say we need to teach people to read the

Bible for themselves of course it was very early in stages of the Bible being printed and available to everybody and so they saw the value in it and so they wanted to make sure everybody could unfortunately that naturally as mankind became less religious in this country there's going to be a natural progression away from the intentions of that but again in the beginning that was the idea we're going to bring people in to make sure that our children can read the scriptures however right after the

Declaration of Independence was signed after the Constitution went into place early in American history this idea that we're building a society we're building this country we need everybody on the same page came in through this man named

Benjamin Rush one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and he was one of the first to kind of come out and say children aren't really individuals they are part of a whole society and so they need to be taught to become as such he said basically let our people be this is a direct quote from him let our people be taught that he does not belong to himself but he is public property let him be taught to love his family but let him be taught at the same time that he must forsake and even forget them when the welfare of his country requires it and so as you see that push away from the value of the individual to a more societal view you can kind of start to see where things would go wrong and from that about 50 years later a man named

Horace Mann who's considered the father of modern education he's the one that came up with compulsory schooling laws the

Institute of it in Massachusetts he was the first Secretary of Education in a state anywhere in America and so he was very influential in that and his idea was there were

Catholics moving into Massachusetts they didn't want to be taken over by that and so let's get all these kids in school make them come to school and teach them away from that and so even though they were teaching

Christian principles and biblical principles their idea was they shouldn't be allowed to believe what their parents believe now where have you heard that before that's something that in modern times is being used saying

Christian kids shouldn't be allowed to believe in you know creationism they shouldn't be allowed to believe in biblical views of sin or whatever else that foundation was laid almost 200 years ago where it all really came to a head though was around the turn of the century at night 1800s and the 1900s

John Dewey was the big name and he's one of considered one of the most influential

Americans of all time because he as one of the authors of the first humanist manifesto found a way to institutionalize men and break up the schools into what it's really known as today with the grade levels and different things and infuse that humanism into into the schools want to read that one quote from Horace Mann and then one from Dewey here man said we who are engaged in a sacred cause of education are entitled to look upon all parents as having given hostages to our cause basically they had a cause they wanted to pursue and any parent that sent their kid to them was giving them a hostage to be converted to be leveraged for their goals and then

Dewey said something similar he said children who know to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming where everyone is interdependent and so you can see over 200 years how it really progressed from this we're gonna teach kids religion because we all share a common religion and the more diversified society became the more education began to be viewed by those at the height of power in education as this is our tool to get parent kids to believe something different from their parents

Wow let's go to one of our questioners we have

Gordy in Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania who says what do you see as the next radical move by the secularists in the public schools you know it's funny this book came

I finished reading or writing in about five years ago it was published just over four years ago and at the time you know they were debating gay marriage in the courts that was going to the

Supreme Court and I wrote and said that's pretty much a lost battle the next one's gonna be transgenderism and of course you see where we are now and I think right now we're on the front foot of that wave you're gonna have where teachers aren't allowed to call kids he or she or they are forced to call kids by the names they choose you know just there's already the restroom question in schools my native state in Colorado kind of led the way on that with a little seven -year -old boy deciding

I want to go into the girls room well that was five six years ago and look where we are now and so we're kind of on the front of that wave and then when that domino falls that's the one where especially for Christian teachers it's gonna just get harder and harder as that continues to be implemented in schools yeah it's amazing when you think about the fact that Barack Obama our last president before the election of President Trump Barack Obama initially was opposed to same -sex marriage and Barack Obama a hero of the left now if you were to oppose same -sex marriage depending upon where you live and where you work you could lose your livelihood you could have you could have your your career tarnished forever you could be fined in certain circumstances you know you see people being sued for for not baking cakes to celebrate same -sex weddings it's just amazing how fast this snowball of leftist totalitarianism is growing and we are supposed to be running alongside of it keeping in pace and believing in every new novel idea that the left develops and embraces and celebrates and demands that everyone join them in lockstep over these issues even if these same leftists only a handful of years ago would never have dreamed of saying things they are saying today and who knows what they're gonna say tomorrow right you mentioned you know 2008 you had

President Obama you have the Clintons you had just about everybody said no we don't believe in gay marriage you know maybe civil unions or whatever else and within five years

I mean how quickly that it's lifted now ten years later we don't even talk about that like that debate is settled now of course we as Christians hold the same view that we did but as far as in the public circle that's not even held we're on to what do we call the pronoun of somebody who claims they're a different gender or we and another point to this listeners question one of the next thing that's coming and it's one of the scariest things about the educational system is the acceptance of pedophilia you know when gay marriage was first being debated in presented so many

Christians said this is a slippery slope it's gonna lead to other things and remember we were laughed at oh come on you know we're not actually trying to lead towards pedophilia well that's what you had major outlets

Blade and others writing on hey we need to be more understanding of pedophiles you know people who love children well they're just you know that love is love argument that's where it ends up and so you're having people arguing for that now now again it's still on the fringe it's still very early in that but notice something you pay attention to the headline notice how rampant it is for teachers having sexual relations with their students you can find them multiple times every single week of the school year and so I don't think those two are separate issues you know the acceptance of pedophilia the rapid decline of sexuality in this country and only grown teachers targeting teenagers or younger sexually and so as far as things that are on the horizon that's one another one that's part of that snowball that's picking up it really is something to keep an eye on yeah and of course when you have leftists demanding that even prepubescent children have the right to decide their gender well how far can it be from prepubescent children having the right to decide with whom they have sex right right

I mean why would a five or six or seven year old need to why would even know that they could be something different and then of course you've got where they're they're fully accepting of seven or eight year old saying

I'm gay they don't know what that is right you know and so you're right they are sexualizing children all the way down to kindergarten which is part of this whole thing well thank you

Gordy and since you live in Mechanicsburg and you are not far from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVBBS .com

the company that sends out our winners their free Bibles and books and other things that they win when they submit questions to our guests since you are not far from there instead of having a mail this book to you since you've won failure what

Christian parents need to know about American education by Jack Wilkie since you've won a copy of that by virtue of your question today why don't you pop by CVBBS .com

on North Hanover Street in Carlisle Pennsylvania and pick up your copy the books are already there at CVBBS .com

waiting for local listeners to pick them up and any out of state or out of this area listeners of course they will be mailed to them we have

Pastor Bruce Bennett of the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville Long Island New York who is also a public school teacher

I usually don't give the full names of our listeners when they write in questions but I tend to make an exception when they are ministers and Bruce Bennett says it seems that American public education has become an indoctrination tool of the leftist mindset we can see how blue states would support such a system but why do red states tolerate such

Marxist ideas in their public school curriculums well the problem and this is where I mentioned

John Dewey a minute ago this is where he made his mark was and Horace Mann had some influence in this as well is they said what's the first thing let's do is get a hold of the teacher training centers let's train teachers to think a certain way to be a certain way then you know if you train you know 50 teachers you're reaching over a lifetime how many tens of thousands of kids you know and so it's at that level and so when these states and Texas where I live

Oklahoma you know some of these more red God -fearing you know more Christian leaning states yeah they have that but even the

University here in Texas I mean University of Texas at Austin and places like that are so very anti God in some ways they have that leaning that a

Marxism that he mentioned and so it's not so much about the states themselves and their bureaucracy it's where are these people coming from the teachers unions based in Washington the influence from on high whether it's the education centers for teachers the union those who really have the control of the textbooks and all of that they dictate everything and that's one of the biggest things about Common Core about this whole history of education was taking it out of the hands of the parents taking it out of the hands of the community giving it to people at the top who would have the control and determine what was going to be taught and so I mentioned the thing about bullying being the door in which they were going to bring in homosexuality intolerance of that that came right from the top that that guy

Kevin he's Kevin Jennings was his name he worked in the Obama White House in the

Department of Education and helped institute some of these things and so you know you hear about bullying all the time that was one guy in Washington who made that decision and because they have this network so well set up they went to schools all over the country and was the door through which that was introduced

I mean it just you know there's no local control anymore and so why conservative

Bible -believing schools and states and counties and this is because it's just a

Trojan horse brought in through the Centers of Education and from Washington right and of course we cannot confuse conservatism with those that have a

Christian worldview there there may be an overlap in many areas but they are not identical things you have you have people who are politically conservative who are themselves homosexuals in fact

Fox News is more frequently having not only guests but fill -in hosts during broadcasts that are openly homosexual but who happen to share a lot of the conservative views of the of the prime the predominant number of people who are hosting programs on Fox and you know you have politically conservative individuals who are pro -abortion you or you have politically conservative individuals who are far more concerned over the fiscal aspects of conservatism than they are over anything involving sexual morality or the murder of unborn children so you know you have a wide breadth of ideology under the banner or umbrella of conservatism right right and we have to go to our midway break right now oh by the way pastor

Bruce Bennett and I'm going to give you a plug for your website as you have provided WOT church comm

WOT church .com that's word of truth church in Farmingville Long Island please give us your full mailing address

Bruce so that we can have CVVBS .com mail you a free copy of failure what

Christian parents need to know about American education and we applaud you for hanging in there and the public school system as a

Christian voice as a conservative a moral biblically faithful voice in a place where one could barely dream that somebody could survive as a teacher in that climate got to hand it to you and we thank you for all you do for the education of children in the 21st century we're going to our midway break right now this is a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio 90 .1

FM in Lake City Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show so that they can localize

Iron Trump and Zion Radio to Lake City Florida with their own public service announcements and commercials so please be patient with us as we take this a long at a break use this time to not only write down questions for Jack Wilkie on failure what

Christians need to know about American education but also use this time to write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them the more you patronize our advertisers obviously the more likely they are going to remain our advertisers which means the more likely we are going to remain on the air as a program because we depend upon the financial support of our advertisers to exist so please write down that information provided by our advertisers and also as I said write down questions for our guest

Jack Wilkie don't go away a God willing we are going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors

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Solid Rock Remodeling bringing new life to your home James White here co -founder of Alvin Omega Ministries and occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio I'm so delighted my friend

Chris Arnzen will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 conference from January 17th to the 19th 2019 where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme a biblical understanding of missions speakers include

John Piper Steve Lawson Bodhi Balcombe Mark Dever Conrad Mbewe Phil Johnson Josh Bice yours truly and many more

I hope you all join Chris and me for this phenomenal event for more details go to G3conference .com

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G for group dot org forward slash podcast hello

I'm Dr. Kerry Kimbrell senior pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel Mississippi and I'm hoping that many of you who listen to Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program will join

Chris and me at the Deep South Founders Conference Thursday January 24th through Saturday January 26th here in Laurel if you love

God's Word and love to hear it powerfully preached I can assure you that you will not be disappointed our speakers at the

Deep South Founders Conference this year include Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw and our keynote speaker all the way from Zambia Dr.

Conrad Mbewe who has received the nickname the Spurgeon of Africa and I for one believe it's a very accurate description of Brother Conrad for more details go to DeepSouthFounders .com

that's DeepSouthFounders .com I look forward to giving a big Mississippi welcome to many

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners January 24th through January 26th thank you one sure way all

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Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ and his church as a pastor? why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary you'll find more information at IRBSSeminary .org

that's IRBSSeminary .org two S's in the middle I hope to hear from you soon congregation looks forward to meeting you call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us

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Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone since 1987 the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available

Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly much of what is being printed is not worth your time that means you can get to the good stuff faster it also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic heretical and otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors their website is

CVBBS .com browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you the church and to Christ that's

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Monday through Friday between 10 a .m. Eastern Time and 430 p .m. Eastern Time if you mention

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I'm sorry as much as your Christmas shopping with them as possible and in fact you can order books published by the

Solid Ground Christian Book Ministry that I've mentioned earlier Solid -Ground -Books .com you can go to that site of Solid Ground Christian Books and make a long list of things published by Solid Ground Christian Books that you want to order at Solid -Ground -Books .com

and then you can order them from CVBBS .com and that makes two of our sponsors happy and that will help you to more quickly get to the $50 mark so you get free shipping on everything that's

CVBBS .com and we urge you to please always mention

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio whenever you order. We have to just give you a few announcements about upcoming events that we want you to attend before we continue with our interview today with Jack Wilkie.

First of all the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon is coming up this is a free event available to all men in ministry leadership or whether you are a minister an elder a deacon whether you are a leader in a parachurch ministry you have to be a man this is exclusively a men's luncheon and it's absolutely free of charge on Thursday January 3rd from 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle Pennsylvania.

The speaker this year again is going to be Dr. Tony Costa the professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary and he has a message prepared for you men in the ministry the theme is going to be the meaninglessness of life and the destruction of Western society without God.

I think that that's hinging on what we're talking about today in a large degree. In fact one of the friends of my guest

Jack Wilkie, Chris Croats minister at the Carlisle Church of Christ has has been the volunteer photographer for every year that we have done the

Iron Sharpens Iron ministers luncheon here in Carlisle Pennsylvania. We used to do it for many years in New York and after relocating here

Chris has been a great help to us being an official photographer which he does as a volunteer at no charge to us.

But not only are you going to be fed spiritually by Dr. Tony Costa our keynote speaker professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary but you're also going to receive free books donated by nearly every

Christian publisher nearly every major Christian publisher in the United States in the United Kingdom every year going back to the 1990s most of the major Christian publishers have donated books so that every man in attendance at my my ministers luncheons will receive a copy of a title that I select from each publisher so in other words each publisher donates a hundred copies of a specific title that I select so the men are going to be leaving with one or two heavy sacks of books absolutely free of charge there is no charge for anything at the free luncheon free food free message from Dr.

Tony Costa free books there is no hidden agenda that that was the insistence of my late wife

Julie who began these luncheons back in the 90s to just bring a day of rest relaxation joy fun fellowship and edification to ministers she thought very highly of ministers and knew that I had a very large proportion of friends who were ministers because of the fact that I've been in Christian radio for most of my adult life in one realm or another so please if you would like to join us there for this free luncheon on Thursday January 3rd 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com and put luncheon in the subject line and we'll make sure that you are registered immediately following that Dr.

Costa is sticking around here in this area and from Friday through Sunday after the luncheon that's

Friday January 4th through Sunday January 6th Dr. Costa is going to be speaking at the

Enola First Church of God in Enola Pennsylvania where my friend George Jensen is the minister and Dr.

Costa's theme at the conference the three -day conference is contending for the faith the church in a postmodern world and that is going to be held as I said from January 4th through the 6th that Enola First Church of God this unlike the ministers luncheon is open to everybody man woman or child

Christian non -christian you could be an atheist and you will be welcomed with open arms into this conference and if you'd like to attend you can call for more details at 717 -732 -4253 717 -732 -4253 that is the number for the

Enola First Church of God you can also go to the website for the church at enolacog .com

enolacog .com forward slash Bible dash conference that's

EnolaCog .com forward slash Bible dash conference to get more details on the conference we hope to see you there

I will be there manning an iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth God willing and then after that later on in the month of January I am going to be

God willing for the third year in a row manning an exhibitors booth at the g3 conference in Atlanta Georgia more specifically

College Park Georgia that is a suburb of Atlanta the event will be specifically held at the

Georgia International Convention Center and the theme is the mission of God a biblical understanding of missions and there is an enormous roster of phenomenal speakers as there always is at the g3 conference which stands for gospel grace and glory in case you're wondering this

January the speakers include dr. James R white John Piper Steven J Lawson Votie Balcom Mark Dever Conrad M Bayway Tim Chalies Phil Johnson Todd Friel of wretched

TV and wretched radio Stephen J Nichols the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late

RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries and many more are on that roster I would strongly urge you to not only register to to attend but you can also register for an exhibitors booth just like I will be manning and they are expecting between four and five thousand people there so I'd strongly urge you to take advantage of manning an exhibitors booth while there's still room because that is a great spot obviously to promote your church parachurch ministry business or special event whatever it is you want to promote by manning an exhibitors booth go to g3 conference calm g3 conference calm

I don't know if they have any of the free passes left but someone donated money to sponsor a whole block of seats in the audience so that people could attend this for free they were so passionate about people going to the g3 conference so you might want to check to see if they have any of those seats left for free at g3 conference calm g3 conference calm then later on in the month closer towards the end

January 24 I think I even forgot to tell you the dates of the g3 conference Thursday January 17th through Saturday January 19th are the dates of the g3 conference and they are having a special Spanish speaking edition on Wednesday January 16th then coming up later on as I was saying

January 24th through the 26th for the very first time ever in my life I will be traveling to Mississippi to man an exhibitors booth at the

Deep South founders conference the theme this January is sanctification the speakers include a rusty reed

Gerald Henderson Jason Goodwin who's actually my guest tomorrow God willing an iron sharpens iron

Bobby Crenshaw and the aforementioned dr. Conrad and Bayway who I believe is the most powerful preacher alive on the planet

Earth pastor of Kubota Baptist Church Lusaka Zambia Africa and Chancellor of African Christian University for more details on the

Deep South founders conference go to DeepSouthFounders .com DeepSouthFounders .com last but not least if you love

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I mentioned by the way if you are without a church home with that if you were without a Bible believing church home and you're not prayerfully seeking for one you are living in disobedience to God so please rectify that situation

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I've already helped many listeners in our audience find churches near them all over the world so if you want to find a church home near you give me an email at ChrisArns and a gmail .com

and put I need a church home or something like that in the subject line also if you want to advertise with us as long as whatever it is that you want to promote is compatible with what we believe you don't have to be you don't have to believe identically with what

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Jack Wilkie ChrisArns and a gmail .com ChrisArns and a gmail .com

and we are now back to our interview with him on failure what Christian parents need to know about American education let's move into religion and the schools all right yeah that's we talked about this a little bit earlier how there's so much of the thrust is actually just anti -christian you know about couches and other things but the one phrase that comes to mind when we talk about religion in schools

I think we've all heard everyone's familiar with is separation of church and state and that's really how that was introduced in the 40s and 50s and 60s all those core decisions you know no prayer in schools no

Bible education classes no Ten Commandments all of those things because of separation of church and state and so you would assume that that public schools are religion free campuses that's just not the case there are instances all over America as we talked about earlier conservative states liberal states whatever you want to call it all over the place of schools teaching

Islam to kids and having a history of Islam course or even teaching things as radical as Wicca different things like that and so again the there's not really this absence of religion in schools there's an absence of Christianity Christianity is not allowed everything else is allowed in well why would they think that would they want kids to become

Muslims well no if this postmodernist thing you're trying to show Christian kids from Christian homes look there's all these religions yours isn't anything special and so that's why all these other religions are allowed in but you can't bring

Christianity into the schoolroom and so there is religion in schools one of the other points that need to be considered is if those if none of those were allowed if if schools were strictly zero religion of any kind that would be a religion itself

I mean you look at the Bible you look at Deuteronomy 6 about teaching children when you rise up and when you go out of the house and all of those things listed there

Christianity are not only not Christianity but the Bible and God's law it talks about there that's something to be taught to children all day long discipline the children learn comes from the

Bible the the growth the motivation the morals there's this idea that we can separate education from religion and you just can't to do so is the religious statement in itself it says

Jesus is only viable on Sunday morning you know or is only viable when you go to church or away from the school building and so I had

Christians say well our school is different because we're allowed to say a prayer before the football game on Friday night okay so that means your school is allowed

Jesus in for one minute at a time about eight times a year and we're satisfied with that it's it's the message we're sending even in that amount of religion in the schools is that it's okay to have minimalist this minimal tiny amount of Jesus in our lives when you kids really nobody should be going through a day without having conversations about him and focus on him and yeah you're gonna study math

English science all these other things but Jesus comes into that you know how can you study science without God how can you study all of these different disciplines and really the the discipline behind studying has a morality and a biblical motivation to it that needs to be implemented that kids need to understand and yet that's why

Christian kids are able to separate their religion from everything else they do is because that's what they're taught in schools okay you go to school for this time of day you go to church once or twice a week and so even if schools weren't teaching all these other religions that was just strictly irreligious that would still be a problem you understand does that make sense yes and leftist ideology and secular humanism and even atheism and agnosticism they are religions they don't call people who are adherents of those things do not call that a religion or those things of religion but they are whether they call them that or not if once you start declaring what is moral what is good and right and what is immoral and what is wrong you are delving into the realm of a religion and it's interesting how one of the battle cries of the left used to be you can't push your or you can't legislate morality well first of all that hasn't has never been in practice a truth because even the civil rights movement and other things that the left was involved in even those things that we who are conservative would agree with much of what was accomplished during the civil rights movement but those were done those actions were done very often by ministers of churches and they were done under the banner of what was moral and good and decent and right and so it's just a myth that these people are trying to remove religion from the schools or from the public arena or from politics they just don't want biblical religion involved in there right yeah just removing

Christianity because you're exactly right all of you know everything is theological in one way or another you're either saying there is a

God in it if there is a God he's the kind of God who deserves to be talked about every day and is king over everything or there's a

God but he's not that big of a deal almost like a deistic view and you think about those who hold some version of Christianity today what's the most popular version of it in moralistic therapeutic deism as it's been called which is basically

God's there to make me feel good and answer my prayers when something goes bad but he's not requiring something of my life where do kids get that idea well they it's by implication throughout their lives when they're told yeah there's a

God but he doesn't matter enough to be brought into our everyday lives and so there's that version of it and then there's of course the version that says there is no

God he won't be talked about he's not allowed in here and and so that's exactly what's being instituted and what has been instituted for at least one generation probably two going on to a third now we have let's see

Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County who has a question Eastern Suffolk County New York he asks is your guest suggesting that Christians remove their children from public schools because I cannot understand in this day and age how there can ever be a reversal of the condition of the public school system when the public school system or government schools began in this country the country was vastly predominantly

Christian even if most of the citizens of this country were not genuinely born again there was a reverence towards God and the

Bible and most people were at least by name or profession Christian it was rare to find somebody supporting another religious view today that is probably the reverse of the truth where you have people who would rarely call themselves theologically biblical in their understanding of things who are involved in the education system in America even if they were to say that they were some kind of a

Christian nominally they certainly wouldn't be in agreement with us on major important factors that are taught in the

Bible I know that there are exceptions even as Chris mentioned earlier with one of the listeners who wrote in a question who is a public school teacher and also a

Bible believing minister but how on earth can we send our children to a public school knowing that these horrible things are going on and of course the impossibility of even expecting people who disagree with us on the

Bible to be leading children in prayer and to be teaching our children about the

Bible when they may have belief systems involved in another religion they might not only be leftists or liberals but they might be members of cults who disagree with us on major issues how could this possibly be rectified well

I'll give you a little spoiler for the book for anybody who's going to pick it up and read it I do come to the conclusion that if at all possible parents should get their kids out

I talk about the Christian private school option I talk about home education option I know financially for what different things to come up in life that's not viable for everybody

I think it's viable for more people and then they think of course that takes a financial sacrifice but we're talking about children's souls here that are hanging in the balance and so I do believe it's worth it if at all possible that's not to say though that putting your kid in a

Christian private school or home education which I've got the two I highly recommend home education because as was alluded to even in a

Christian private school they might believe differently than you believe and they're going to impart that to your kids you know even if it's things within Christendom of reform versus non -reform the different debates that we have well you want your kids to believe what you believe you believe it for a reason somebody else might be teaching them differently and so home is the way in which you can have that one -on -one time that God commands parents to have with their children home is the way in which you can impart discipline in your own way you know it's a very viable option educationally as you know 20 almost 30 years of experience have shown us now that you know they're not coming out as idiots they're not coming out as incompetent in fact they're well ahead of the curve in a lot of ways and so I think of the two that's the one

I'd recommend of course you can't do that a Christian private school if you can do that is another good option but you know the whole point of all of this is not that having your kids at home is going to make them disciples of Jesus who are saved sending them to a

Christian private school isn't going to make that it's shielding them from influences they aren't ready to handle you know one of the objections

I always get is well our children are supposed to be the light of the world I know some people will disagree with me on this

I don't think your seven -year -old was called to evangelize 35 year old atheist teacher right in fact the

Apostle Paul said one I was a child I thought as a child and behaved as a child but when

I became a man I put childish things away so obviously there is a difference between the way a child thinks and adult things right well and it is one of the other things

I like to laugh about is you know when when you mentioned well I think home education is a good option people say well what about the socialization you know well yeah what about the socialization when you go and when the kids start talking to each other in class what are they told hey be quiet you're not allowed to do that here that's not what you're here for and it's the same thing with evangelism there's not these broad times during the day for kids to give gospel lessons to their fellow classmates

I'm not saying it can't happen but that's not the point they're there for in fact they're there to listen and be taught by somebody else they're not in the authority there and so that becomes very difficult and so you know those objections are there

I understand why they're given but again kids aren't sent to be the light of the world it's the parents job to protect and equip their children you know psalm 127 and that talks about the children as arrows it's the parents job to try and launch them to train them up in a way they should go and you know

I one of the things I address in the book is people say well that doesn't mean they can't become Christians if they you know are influenced by all these other things and I agree

I mean obviously if that were the case we wouldn't have any Christians hardly at this point but the question is how much poison are you willing to let your kids drink because you have the antidote there's this bad influence these influence of the other kids with their you know just the things that they're into there's the influences from the textbooks and we talked about the sexual things there's so many negative influences it's a parent's job to protect those kids from that not forever and keep them sheltered forever but to prepare them to handle that in an adult mature way because as you said kids think like kids kids are vulnerable kids are easily persuaded and easily confused by these things and the worse and worse that it gets like I said

I think as this snowballs especially with a sexuality thing and a transgender and pedophile issue

I've within five ten years it's not even gonna look like an option anymore

I mean it just gets worse and worse all the time and so I'm really hoping so many Christian parents will look at that and say my kids spirituality can't survive in this or place for them to be yeah

I could never understand conservatives who say we've got to bring prayer and the

Bible back into the public school and now on the one hand I obviously certainly believe that schools funded by taxpayers should give

Christian students and students of all religions the freedom to pray and during their you know times of privacy and they should have the freedom to form clubs and other social activities that involve people of their religion and so on that I believe in but to bring the

Bible and prayer back into the public school what what who is going to be in charge of what is taught from the

Bible and who is going to be leading the prayer that you know I'm saying they talk about the good old days of the principal reading the

Bible and praying over the pop the loudspeaker well I would not want my child if I had children

I would not want my children to be taught anything about the Bible or to be led in prayer by somebody who denies what

I believe about Christ and his sacrifice on Calvary and other major things that I believe is a

Christian am I making sense here well that's you know it's funny when

I set out to write this book Brad here the guy I work with he and I sat down we were talking about we need to write something to let parents know how bad education has gotten in America and we did that we looked at you know the the decline of sexual teaching the decline the danger in the schools of you know predatory behavior all these different things we looked at that are bad but the more

I read the more I studied the more I tried to come to an understanding of this more I realized the core issue here isn't how bad the schools have gotten it's a philosophical issue with education that says it's a battle for who gets to influence people's kids well parents have influence over their kids

I mentioned Horace Mann one of the guys who instituted and really legalized and got into the laws the compulsory schooling making kids go to school the reason he did that is because their state of Massachusetts was starting to be overrun by Catholic immigrants and they didn't want to be a

Catholic state and so the idea was let's get their kids into school so we can teach them not to be well

I have strong disagreements with the Catholic faith on a number of things but it's not my right or anybody else's right to take somebody's kids and change their religious beliefs you know even an atheist you know we need to try and reach those people we need to you know try and influence them but to tell somebody

I disagree with what you want to teach your kids and so I'm going to take them and what man said he considered children hostages to their cause literally his own words that's wrong and that's wrong for me to do that's wrong for anybody else to do and that's what we're seeing that ideology being used by the other side saying you know what if you want to believe

Christianity that's fine your kids aren't allowed to we're going to try and teach them differently Hitler said the same thing when he came to power in Germany with people who opposed him he said

I don't care that you oppose me I've got your kid and so that's really at the heart of all of this is the debate of who gets to influence children who gets to plot the course for children their parents or somebody else and that's that's a responsibility parents need to think long and hard about and and take that responsibility very seriously because when they don't somebody else is taking that on and and turning their kids into something that the parents never intended for the kids to be by the way on a side note you mentioned

Brad Harab I saw him present an excellent conference that involved what's going on in the education system and also things involving the creation versus evolution debate here in Carlisle Pennsylvania and I highly recommend people to go and hear him whenever he is speaking in their community is really brilliant in that field and he really is yeah a very articulate very good media presentation the audio -visual presentation really top -notch but anyway by the way thank you

Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County New York you have also won a free copy of failure what

Christian parents need to know about American education compliments of focuspress .org

and that will be shipped out to you by CVBBS .com Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service as long as we have your full mailing address we're going to our final break right now it's going to be much more brief than the last break please send in your question immediately if you have one the

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This is the last segment of our interview today with Jack Wilkie, author of Failure, What Christian Parents Need to Know About American Education.

And we do have some listeners waiting to have their questions asked. We have Joey in Clifton, New Jersey.

And Joey asks, Considering the other side of the pendulum of error, what are your thoughts on those who become hyper -consumed with Christian education?

For example, those who seem to always debate the specific methods of education, e .g.

Trivium, should they learn Latin, etc.,

and seem to make Christian education a point of division with fellow believers and in the church.

Where is the balance on doing the best for the kids and not making an idol of education?

That's a good question. That's something that, you know, it's a rabbit hole that somebody can go just way down as you brought up, you know,

Latin. You know, some people get so passionate of, your kid needs to learn this, this, this, this, this, and this.

You know, I think it's a very simple thing. And this is something I addressed in the book towards the end, kind of a question and answer, answering objections thing was, you know,

I had so many people when I would talk about this say, well, you can't bind that. I'm not trying to bind it.

I'm not saying this is a biblical command to educate your kids, you know, a certain way of the options available, and you're sinning if you don't.

On the other hand, I said it is a biblical command to, you know, teach your children, train up a child in the way he should go, you know, to have that Deuteronomy 6 mindset of I'm going to be speaking of God and His law with them day and night as often as I can.

I mean, those are biblical principles. And so we want to implement those. And then what this is, is the question of what's the best way to do that.

That's why I advocate for home education first, Christian education second, if home education is not viable, and third, if there's no other options or if it's just not something that would work out, yes, somebody can send their kids to public education, to government schools, but still keep those biblical commands of teaching your kids, of conversing with your kids, of praying with your kids.

That's the core of this, is making sure your kids understand the gospel and how it applies to their lives in various ways.

That's the non -negotiable. From there, we're just debating as to what's the best way to do that. And so I agree with the one writing in that it can become an idol.

As I mentioned before, choosing a specific form of education does not save your kids.

The gospel, Jesus saves people. And so when we put our faith in that,

I've seen homeschool friends, families who went down that road and their kids didn't turn out and they're just crushed, thinking, but I chose this option that it was supposed to work.

Well, there's no foolproof, fail -safe option. It's the gospel that saves, and introducing them to that.

And the question for parents then is what's the best way to introduce that, to introduce my children to Jesus and help bring them up in the way they should go.

From that, I advocate home education if possible, Christian education if not. But certainly he's right.

We don't need to make that a line of division or something. It's a sin not to do it a certain way.

By the way, give us your full mailing address, Joe, in Clifton, New Jersey, because you've won a free copy of the book as well.

We have Mary in Cork, Ireland, who says, Please ask Mr. Wilkie if Christian parents teach their children the

Bible and the Christian worldview, cementing them in a sure foundation, surely those children have the strength and knowledge to stand up to the different worldviews in the classrooms.

If they leave the church because of the other worldviews, were they ever grounded in the word first day?

I am not an American, but I'm interested in your thoughts. Well, I think that's something that we talked about a little bit ago with the age thing of, you know, of course you need to be teaching your children the

Bible from, I mean, before they can talk is a part of it. But again, a six or seven or an eight year old might not be grounded enough in the faith.

Something we talked a lot about the schools and their influences and textbooks and things that are taught.

Something I didn't even really get to address in my book because it's hard to quantify is peer pressure, the influence of the kids around you.

You know, just in kindergarten, first grade when I was little, I knew every curse word in the book from the kids around me.

I knew, you know, they would describe in graphic detail the R -rated movies they were allowed to watch. You know, my parents were good parents, took us to church, all those things, but they couldn't have prepared us for that.

And so part of this is not sheltering your kids to where they don't understand the world, but helping them process things when they're ready to handle them.

We talked about how they're dealing with the transgenderism thing with five -year -olds. That's not a discussion that your five -year -old is ready to have.

The nuances of it, the difficulties of it, you know, they need to know what a boy and a girl is and why it matters and why

God made them fearfully and wonderfully, but, you know, there are things that are being introduced to them in a way that they're just not ready to handle.

And so, you know, part of that is to say bring them along at the pace that they need to go at because that's unique to every kid.

But as far as if they fall away later, they never got it, I think a lot of times that is exactly what happens, is that there are so many, they're so far down that road by the time, you know, even by middle school, that convincing them of the

Bible and the truth of it and all of that, that Christian worldview we talked about, the very basics of it, are already being compromised and pushed for questioning and doubt in their minds at 11, 12, 13 years old.

And then a lot of times the head follows the heart, you know, they want to be a certain way, they're tempted by certain things, they're pulled in that way, and they find ways to justify it.

And so, you know, it's about giving your kids the right foundation, helping them process these things when they're ready to.

And we have time for one more quick question. Bruce, again, from the

Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, who's also a public school teacher. Both the high school and the middle school in the district

I teach in, a few miles outside of New York City, now force the entire school for five minutes each day to do meditation and breathing, which is essentially yoga, and is in fact taught by yoga instructors paid for by the school district.

I tried to get a lawyer to sue the district on the grounds of forcing a particular religious viewpoint upon the students and staff, but I couldn't find a lawyer who would take up the case.

What is your view on this? Well, that's one that I've seen hotly debated, is the yoga.

I think having kids take time for meditation to calm them down or whatever isn't necessarily a bad idea, but that can become religious.

I mean, I don't think that every time somebody practices yoga, just the stretches or whatever it is, but it can be.

And as I mentioned, Eastern religions, Islam, other things are brought into the schools, and that might be a way they do that.

Whether it's religious or not, I'll leave that debate to somebody else. But there's something to keep an eye on, and the different things that schools bring in, there are things that seem very harmless if you read the book at first, but then the more you look at it, the more it was leading towards bringing in something else.

And so, again, as to the religious nature of that, I'll leave that debate to somebody else, but it's something to monitor because that can have very distinct religious ties if people make it that way.

Well, you have a minute now to summarize what you most want etched on the hearts and minds of our listeners on this topic before we go off the air.

All right, I think more than anything is the value of the souls of children, and we're just trying to find the best way to help them stay faithful, but not just,

I think so many Christian parents just say, I hope when my kids leave home they stay faithful. Don't hope they'll stay faithful.

Unleash them on the world as disciples, as the light of the world. Strengthen them as people ready to stand on their own and make other disciples.

And find the best way to do that. Strengthen your kids for the fight because that's what we need, not just kids who are hanging on to their faith, but kids who are rock solid.

And so watch what education does to your children, guard them, and train them in the way they should go.

Well, thank you so much, Jack, for being our guest today. You did an excellent job. I look forward to your return to Iron Trip and Zion Radio as a guest.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions. Make sure you write down the website where you can get a hold of Jack and also purchase his book.

It's focuspress .org, focuspress .org. I hope that you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater