Christian Gives Young Mormon Something to Think About

Apologia Utah

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That's my daughter. What's your name? I teach you Lewis. This is my son poet.

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This is not my child, but this is Luther Judson Renly Gunnar my daughter

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Marley What are you talking about? Oh, yeah, what has she been saying?

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Gotcha, yeah, they're they're cool kids just Passing out tracts and stuff. So what if I were to ask you what the gospel is, what would you say the gospel?

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Which is which is what If I think about it

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So the goodness is that because of him Oh Okay, so the gospel sleep

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So do you believe that through your faith in Jesus Christ alone and that's solely through his work on the cross?

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That when you stand before the Father You'll stand justified which is fully declared righteous by the blood of Christ alone to be with God for all eternity

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Huh? No. No. Okay. Well, that's the gospel. That's the good news, right?

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So what would be the difference then? What am I missing then from the gospel you think so in order for you to be saved

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But you have to have faith which is action and that leads to repentance Gotcha, so what is repentance repentance?

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It's more than just forsaking More than just saying like oh,

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I'm bad. I'll become good All of us are sinners And we change from bad to good

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Gotcha, okay when I think of repentance or I'm thinking of like the gospel the

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Greek word that we translate into repentance is metanoia Meta mind right in metanoia means essentially like a mind change turning from one thing to another

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So in terms of repentance, I would say it's my desires being away from the world and now being towards Christ And that repentance is a fruit of my faith, right?

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So since I've been given faith from God, I repent From being enslaved in sin, right and then

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I turn to follow Christ So it seems a little bit different, right? So you're saying repentance is a consistent action

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Yeah Conscious effort. So is it kind of like a

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Doctrine and Covenants 82 7 where it says if you were to repent but commit that same sin again

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All of your former sins are passed back on you So what happens that heals let's go over here just because I feel like we might be in the way.

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That's okay. But um, so so What is it then Mike? So what is

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Doctrine and Covenants 82 7 is the same? Yeah, yeah read it So when

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I read that it sounds to me like almost like an impossible gospel, right so First John tells me that it says he who is without sin if someone says that it says that the truth is not in them

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Right. So when I read something like Doctrine and Covenants 82 7, I'm going man. I must have to be perfect thing, right?

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But then the Bible says you can't If you say you're sinless And the truth is in India.

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So how would you reconcile those two things? Yeah, like that. That's the actual one

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You said it reconcile We came to pay away He did we can't but it is through him that we can

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So basically if I commit a sin over and over and over again

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Willfully then there's no Then if I strive to be a bit better because I will shortfall right

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I was certainly false for some time then He'll be in it.

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He will enable me to become better perhaps Not perfect justice Right.

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However, the commandment is be there for perfect Yeah, right and there's no commandment that God has given men that they cannot follow right and that in Nephi Yeah, there's no commandment that God has given men that they cannot follow

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So if a commandment from God then if the way you're interpreting be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect It's a literal command

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Then I'd say logically with Doctrine and Covenants 82 7 is you're not allowed to sin at all Or all of your former sins are placed back on you.

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Mm -hmm. So my question is is how are you doing with that man? That's a good question and it is also something between me and my

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God And that's gonna be a hard effort man, and it's gonna be hard and it is hard but it's totally worth

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Do you think one day you'll be perfect before you die? Not before I die

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So once I die and I'm resurrected I will be not in this One day if you're not perfect now, what makes you think that you'll be perfect after death

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Everything that is not Perfect here. For example

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Let's say a disease I can't get rid of my disease easily

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I might not be able to It will never happen right but in the resurrection everything

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So What's the point of doing it now that if you can just do it in the resurrection? because If you think about it

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If you go to school Right and you didn't study at all and you get to the exam

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The chances that you will fail the exam are very high, right? Absolutely Now Then it'll never happen

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Because I never strived to do it I never wanted to do it and if I had never wanted my heart to change

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Like there is nothing that would force me to change if I don't want to change Right by the end of my life,

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I'll be completely Yeah, so what if I told you this man what if in the

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Bible it tells us that First comes death and then comes the judgment

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What if I were to tell you this that in this life is the only chance you have to prepare to meet

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God? That there is no life after that in which you can attain Perfection right or a sinlessness in order to it obtain some form of exaltation.

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What if it's now right? And what if that worry that you have that maybe I'm not good enough right now I can't make it before death is actually a big deal

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Right, what if you were to die and you were to stand before the father and he looked at you in the eyes and he told you

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I Gave you the sacrifice of my son and his perfect work in his perfect righteousness

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But you thought that there were things that you needed to do to add on to his own perfect righteous work

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And in that you've denied the gospel and in that you don't have an atonement at all Have you ever read the book of Galatians before?

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So Galatians 2 21 read it again It says those who think that they can be justified by the works of the law

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It says the death of Christ has no effect on them And the whole purpose of the book of the Galatians to the church in Galatia Was that there is a group called the

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Judaizers. Are you familiar with who the Judaizers are? Okay, so Paul wrote this because there's people called the

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Judaizers. They were within the church And what they were doing is they were telling Gentiles that in order to become

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Christian in order to come to the faith, they must first be circumcised First you must be circumcised in order to actually believe in Jesus and Paul tells them he'll speak back and Paul tells them he says if you

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Believe that you must be circumcised or you're teaching people that you must be circumcised first to believe in Christ And you say he says you might as well actually cut your whole member off He says castrate yourself

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Because you're adding to the gospel Right. So the good news and hope of Jesus Christ is this man.

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It's that I'm not perfect Romans chapter 3 says no one is good. No one seeks

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God. No one understands God all have gone astray, right? And David even echoes this in the psalm.

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He says I was conceived in iniquity So my position before God as a human being is a failure, right?

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So I stand before a perfectly holy infinite in just God as someone who's a sinner

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Okay, and since God is just right since he is loving he punishes wicked

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Right. So the Ten Commandments we can use those for an example Have you ever told a lie?

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Right. What would you call someone who tells lies? What would he tell what would you call them?

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Who what is someone called who tells lies? They're a liar right and it says if one person in the book of James It says if you fail on one part of the law, you're guilty of all of it

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So when you stand before God, you're guilty as a liar, right? But the beautiful thing about Jesus is that Jesus Christ was fully

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God the eternal God who took on flesh John chapter 1 in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was

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God All things were created through him. There was nothing that came into being unless it was created through Jesus It's echoed in Colossians 1 16

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It says he made all things in heaven and on earth Visible and invisible in that God who took on flesh was perfectly obedient to the law

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It says he who knew no sin became sin so that I may inherit the righteousness of God Solely through my belief in Jesus.

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Okay, so me being honest like I'm a liar, right? I'm not a good person apart from Christ But God saved my soul in that when

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I believe in Jesus He died on the cross gave me this year. He gave me his righteousness

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Right, and he took my sins from me. So solely through my belief in him

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When I stand before the Father, I'll be declared righteous clothed in the righteous robes of Christ Not through any external work that I've done nothing

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And so I have full security in my salvation Because Jesus Christ says in John 6 that he'll lose none of his sheep not one of them

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But he'll raise them up on the last day So Jesus holds me secure in his righteousness

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It's not by me needing to be obedient to external ordinances and principles. The good news is you could never do it man never

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But Jesus did it for you so you could actually have hope in your salvation today, man

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You could what if you were taught a false gospel, and how would you know? The only way to know is from the truth and the truth is him by the way, like I didn't know what you guys

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Objected this but actually you sure many things can come on as I do Right, it is through him and because of him and in him that salvation is possible

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Possible not obtained. That's the difference. That's a different gospel though. So what do you mean by possible?

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Yeah I don't want to be saved like he won't force me right and And I love him because of that.

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He lets me be free and if I chose to follow him He will love me for doing that if I choose not to follow him

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He'll still love me, but he will not force me, right? So I believe firmly and I don't speak for the church.

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I speak for myself And I know that it is Who saved my soul?

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And I'll pull him and I'll do whatever he tells me to do through his prophets through his church in the temple

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I know with all of my heart that these things are true, but Many things are coming sure and I appreciate your time.

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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely So no, I want you to think about a couple of things though. So how do you know that?

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What you believe about Jesus and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints is true.

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How do you know that's the question? There is

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Holy Spirit, so how do you know, it's actually the Holy Spirit Temperance patience love long -suffering

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Time kindness and all of these things I have felt and experienced and continued experience in the church and I know in my heart

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That is the answer. I need Gotcha, so so you would say that you know, it's the Holy Spirit because you've observed fruits of the

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Spirit in your life Is that correct? Gotcha, so 2nd Corinthians 11 Talks to us and tells us about people who believe in a different Jesus a different gospel and a different spirit

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Paul warns the church in Corinth and he actually says that Satan masquerades as an angel of light It appears that they're doing works of righteousness

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But since it's done in the name of a different Jesus in a different gospel, it says their end Corresponds to their deeds and the deeds are of death

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So right there can be things that mimic the fruits of the Spirit But I'd say the biggest fruit would be what do you believe about Jesus and what do you believe about the gospel?

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I mean, that's what we find all throughout the New Testament So when we talk about Jesus, right?

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He says this to his disciples. He says who do you say that I am? They're like you're the

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Christ your God so How do you know right is the question if the

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Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints is true? What I would do is say that I got a feeling or like a revelation of some kind Okay, what

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I would do is what the Bible tells me to do. It tells me to test the spirits I'm told in 1st John so whether to know whether or not they come as God And the test of the spirits are number one

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Deuteronomy 13. Does it lead you after another God? Number two, are there any false prophecies?

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Okay, so when I think about how God revealed himself in the Old and New Testament We have

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Deuteronomy 6 for hero Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one we have Isaiah 43 10 Before me there was no

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God formed neither shall there be after me as they have 44 6 I'm the first and I'm the last beside me

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There is no God and I have John chapter 1 which I quoted earlier in the beginning was the word

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You know is Jesus and the word was with God and the word was God. So in the

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Greek What we find is an archaic ain't Palagos and the word ain't is what we translate to was and that's actually in reference to there's no origin

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Point of origin in space in time. The word was already there before time ever even began

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The word was there then it says and the word was with God in with God Frost on they on is what it is in the

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Greek and it means face -to -face Fellowship in relationship. Okay, then it says and he was

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God So the Jesus Christ of the New Testament what I'm trying to get at is not the offspring of heavenly father and heavenly mother

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Okay, he's the eternal God. He's not the spirit brother of Lucifer.

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He's not your spirit brother. Okay He's actually the eternal God who took on flesh and died on the cross for your sins.

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Let me put it this way The Father is Elohim The Son is Elohim. The Holy Spirit is

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Elohim The Son is Yahweh Jehovah, the Father is Jehovah.

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The Holy Spirit is Jehovah We have three persons of God Right, but one being of God is what we find in Scripture So if the

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Jesus Christ of Mormonism if I'm gonna test the Spirit what you call the Holy Spirit who spoke to you

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And if he's telling you and testifying to you of a different deity Than what's been revealed in the

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Old and New Testament What I'm told to do by God's Word in previous revelation is to reject it.

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I must reject it That's why there's people who come and they speak and they say we believe in Jesus Christ We believe in the gospel, but Paul warns 2nd

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Corinthians 11. There's different Jesus's Different Gospels not like there is an actual different Jesus, but people believe different things about him, right?

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And that's my my that's what I worry about for my LDS neighbors. So what what's my goal out here?

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Right. My goal is to help you understand what the gospel is according to the Old and New Testament Abraham was justified by faith

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And I have the very same faith of Abraham Abraham wasn't justified through circumcision, right?

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Abraham was justified in believing in the promise of the offspring who was to come it tells us in Galatians 3 and that offspring was

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Christ without any external work. No temple ordinances, right? No baptisms for the dead

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No being sealed in the temple for all time and eternity. No obedience to the Word of Wisdom Solely through his belief in the perfect righteousness of the eternal

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God who is Jesus Christ The very same one who made the promise to him that was the pre -incarnate Christ who came to him

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And in Hebrews, it tells us that God swore upon nobody other than himself to uphold that promise so you could have salvation today

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Today if you repent turn from Mormonism and turn to the true and living

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God of the Bible And you have you can have faith and you can have security in your salvation that if you were to die tonight

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You will be with God enclosed in the righteousness of Christ And that's a hope

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I I want for you You know what? I mean like I care about you because if you're believing in a false gospel and a false

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Christ not not according to my feelings But testing the Spirit to God's previous revelation

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You don't have a sacrifice for your sins That's my word and I want you to know

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Jesus right because if you die apart from Christ It says in Matthew Believe it's

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Matthew 7. It says Jesus is saying many people will come in my name. They'll say Lord Lord Look at the works we did for you.

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He says depart from me. I never knew you you workers of iniquity And that's what

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I know. I know that's what and I don't want that for you, right? I don't want for you to die and look at Jesus in heaven when you're standing and being judged for your life now

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No second chances and you're looking at him Lord Lord. Look at all the things I did for you He goes that wasn't me and you didn't believe the gospel

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That's scary because then it's eternal damnation, right? The wages of sin is death

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But the free the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord. That's the gospel for you