Responding to Pastor Danny Cortez: Preparing for the Tsunami

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:33

Welcome to the dividing line on a Tuesday afternoon The thought police have arrived in the

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United States. They evidently flew in from Canada We have known for a number of years now that they have these things in Canada called human rights commissions which are just basically

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Ultra liberal individuals who think they are God on earth and They basically get to run around and force everybody to think like them and to act like them and to punish you if you do not

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And we have seen what has happened in Canada as a result of these human rights commissions And we have thanked

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God for the constitution Well, I've said many times constitution is a very very thin defense

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Because it is only as good as the people interpreting it today Because they don't care about what it originally meant any longer

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Well, you all have probably heard the story about the baker In Colorado where the human rights commissions have now landed

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It's such a shame. I love going to Colorado. I love riding in Colorado. I may not be able to much in the future Because we know they are all smoking up there now anyways

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And they are smoking while they are putting together these commissions to force everybody

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To become ultra leftist wackos And so a baker forced to make gay wedding cakes and undergo sensitivity training after losing a lawsuit

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Now of course this is another one of those targeted things This is not a situation where people could not have gotten a cake made

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They look for Christian businesses specifically to persecute them We know this is what they are doing It's very obvious.

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Don't even bother to argue that it's not happening Because they could have gotten their cake made at 15 ,000 different places

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That would not have cared whatsoever about what it was being made for But they found a Christian And so in a state where the profaning of marriage has not yet taken place

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Where homosexual marriage is not yet legal It will be, I know that But it's not yet But because this baker would not make a cake for a currently illegal ceremony

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He's lost the lawsuit Directed to change his store policies immediately

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Force his staff to attend training sessions The next two years

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Phillips will also be required to submit court reports to the commission To confirm that he has not turned away customers based on their sexual orientation

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Once again, here it comes The absolute totalitarianism of the homosexual lobby

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And the progressive left And remember, they want to use the term progression

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I just described it, it's an appropriate term Progression, when you drive a car off a cliff

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You are progressing to the bottom of the cliff That is a progression And that's exactly what they're doing And these folks do not believe in liberty, freedom, equality, inclusion

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The level of hypocrisy is absolutely stunning

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And so I've said for decades now When we take the time as we're going to take today

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To freely, truthfully interact with some material How long will we be able to do this?

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That's the question, I don't know I have no earthly idea At the rate things are going

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I could see somebody trying to file some kind of a lawsuit You can't allow this speech on the internet anymore

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So these things have to be shut down In this principality, this city, this state, whatever it is The people are already doing it

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They're already doing it And if a Christian can be forced to go to sensitivity training

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For being a Christian Then the map that we have out on the wall

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From Voice of Martyrs Where they have the nations marked

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According to their friendliness toward Christianity We're going to need to change the color of the United States Europe, Canada, those places

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We're just going to have to do it And just recognize that's the way it is And of course, remember

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God will judge God will judge in the end And God will judge a nation that mistreats his people in this life as well

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And so there you go In light of that, I only mention that Because we do want to discuss something important today on the program

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That is relevant to the subject of homosexuality At the end of last week, after the last dividing line

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A video became available And as I started watching the video

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It is from Pastor Danny Cortez From California A Southern Baptist church

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As I watched the video, I said Okay, over and over again

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Over and over again I have said on this program

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That we are going to see a tsunami Of collapse

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On a biblical perspective Regarding homosexuality And it's not because of Matthew Vines There is absolutely nothing new in Matthew Vines' book

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It is not compelling, it's not deep, it's not scholarly If anyone's read

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Boswell Skenzonian, Mullincott, Countryman, Helminiac And even more importantly, more recently

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Brownson There's nothing there And even

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Justin Lee The personal aspect But that's not overly new either Justin beat him to the punch with that too

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So, no There's just nothing new in this book at all

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But the use of it by others And the fact that Unfortunately, despite our best efforts

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We are a small, little ministry A small, little voice And what that means is

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A large number of seminary graduates and ministers In churches around the

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United States Know next to nothing About having a holistic, whole

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Bible view Of the relationships of men and women The role of God as creator in defining gender

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And gender roles The positive message of the Bible in regards to The nature of marriage

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Jesus' positive teaching That the one relationship that God blesses

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Is the heterosexual marriage relationship Matthew chapter 19

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And then contextually And in a meaningful fashion The consistent testimony

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And the grounds of understanding why Those six passages Say what they say

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And form a cohesive whole Because that is not a part Even of many in the position of Leadership in evangelical churches

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That what we see in Danny Cortez Is going to be repeated so often

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In the near future That we won't even take time to do this Because we wouldn't have time to The number of videos like this

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That are going to be posted on the internet Will be massive Will simply be massive

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And I'm telling you it's coming I am not a prophet nor a son of a prophet I'm just simply telling you

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What is going to happen And every ministry and every church

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That has bought into the idea That we need to look like the world around us

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We need to be quote on quote Seeker friendly as if there was anyone Called a seeker in the first place That we have to dress like the world

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And think like the world And we don't need to put any unnecessary impediments Not trusting the word and the spirit anymore

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Any church like that Is going to be in tremendous danger

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Of collapse on this issue And just simply Either openly doing what he has done

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And changing the entire perspective Just simply throwing out what we believe in the past And making complete change

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Or you're going to have a lot Who are just simply going to stop talking about these things I don't know how you can Because then you can't talk about Jesus' positive teaching

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About marriage and sexuality and things like that But there are going to be some people

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Who are going to try Now yesterday On the briefing

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Dr. Moeller began with these words The issue of homosexuality now looms over every denomination Every church

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Every school Every politician And eventually every American citizen Including of course every

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American Christian That becomes increasingly clear As any option to evade the issue evaporates

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And as so called middle positions Also continue to crumble As I've been saying for some years now

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This is inevitable There is really no middle position on this issue And recent events have made that abundantly clear

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In fairly short order and sooner rather than later Every American is going to be put on the spot Asked the question about beliefs

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On the issue of homosexuality And of course the related issue of same sex marriage And of course

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Dr. Moeller Is exactly correct In that analysis We have been saying the same thing

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For a very long time And so what I want to do Is I want to listen To what

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Danny Cortez had to say And I've announced on his page And it's the first time

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And I forgot To look at this Because I had actually answered

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A few Combox Comments I almost never do that But I actually had

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And And So let me just look here The DDD It looks like there is going to be some interesting

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Interesting things In that combox But I just simply In a silly way

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Not a silly way I was just very straight forward Yeah Mark Dask says

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Is this not self promotion on your part James? My review Is your review any more important Than every other comment here?

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No humility in you is there James? Ha ha ha Ah Well there is good post modern thinking

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Um Would my review Be the same as Mark Dask's?

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Well let's see I've written a book on the subject I've debated the subject Against leading proponents of the other side

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For years I've studied the biblical languages And taught the biblical languages In seminaries

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And so yeah Actually my view would have more relevance Because I have more of a basis upon which to say

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Something meaningful Is that not logical? This kind of thinking is

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The kind of thinking that leads to you asking Your next door neighbor who is a gardener To do brain surgery on you

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In the garage Doesn't make any sense does it? No okay Anyway that's how a lot of people

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Ha ha ha That's how a lot of people think these days But anyway I want to listen

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And I do want to say as we get started Some of the commentary

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That I have seen In response to Pastor Cortez Is just reprehensible Um as I said

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At I think on the On the blog article or on Facebook Somewhere If it were not for the grace of God Any single one of us

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Could have been caught up In the hurricane force winds Of compromise that our society

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Is Creating in regards to this And so many other issues And While I completely disagree

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With what Pastor Cortez has done And is doing and I believe he will stand before God And will answer

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For what he has done Um to join that with an attitude Of personal anger and hatred

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Toward the man We already get all Just simply disagreeing is enough

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For most people now to call you a hater Because there is no rationality They don't think things through anymore There is so little meaningful logical rational thought

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Going on in our society That it's just clear It's just obvious evidence of the judgment of God But we don't need to provide them

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With the grounds for that And so if you're going to respond

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Um To Pastor Cortez Then please do so in a In a meaningful fashion

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And by the way someone Um Rich mentioned there is someone on Facebook that keeps insisting

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That we should have a southern baptist pastor Um to talk about this issue I don't know why

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Um Dr. Moeller mentioned on the briefing That There will probably need to be some action

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Taking place and some action will take place At Southern Baptist Convention next week That's great

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Needs to be He explained the reasons for that on the briefing I'm not sure why I need to have a Southern Baptist pastor on to address that I'm going to be addressing his arguments

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Why do I have to have a Southern Baptist pastor on Beyond that while I am not in a Southern Baptist Church right now I was ordained to the

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Southern Baptist Church Graduated from Southern Baptist Bible College And taught at Southern Baptist Seminary For 15 years 14 years

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Um so I don't get the idea that You need to have a

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Southern Baptist pastor on I think I know a little something about the Southern Baptist Convention Been there done that So um anyhow

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With that stated There are certain things I picked up In the In this presentation and once again

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I just ask that We listen carefully Realize what it must have been like To sit in the congregation

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When your pastor was saying these words And Let's listen to what

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He had to say But whenever I met with someone That had same sex

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Identity issues And I would sit down with them and they would

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Say you know Danny What do you think about this What do you think

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I would tell them the bible is clear God is against homosexual

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Behavior and because of that You have to remain celibate

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And in those dialogues The way those dialogues Formed was that there was this dread

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That would all of a sudden come On the people I would talk to It was basically

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Me telling them For the rest of your life You can never

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Fall in love For the rest of your life You should never

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Give yourself or anybody Permission to love you In an intimate matter

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And so those kind of words When I said Let me pause there just for a moment Because I'm a little tired today

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I was up very early this morning And Beat myself up Royally this morning

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So I don't want to forget what it was That he just said

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This is the Matthew Vines perspective This is the Gay Christian perspective being

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Announced to you that what we're saying to Homosexuals is That they can never love

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Obviously All of us need to know How to respond to this All of us need to Because what they're doing is they're hijacking

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The term love here They're hijacking This is a church

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This is a church Where the people that have gathered there Have gathered there

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Allegedly anyways under the lordship of Christ And under the authority of the word of God The word of God defines love

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And the word of God Prohibits the idea of Defining love based upon Anything other than God's creative decree

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And what he has said in his word This is what happens when you take

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The categories of the world And you import them into Christianity And make them central so that you don't have to Form the religiosity

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Of Christianity around these new Central principles What does it mean for a man

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To love a woman in a marriage relationship Well whatever it means It's not something two men can do

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And it's not something two women can do And you have to fundamentally Change the positive

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Teaching of the word of God As to marriage and it's heterosexual Nature Leave father and mother

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Not mother and mother and father and father Leave father and mother cleave to your wife Become one flesh You have to change all of that Because you've imported a foreign concept

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Of what love is And of course in our society Love is well whatever anybody

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Wants it to be Just like the Mark Dask fellow On YouTube All opinions are equal

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All opinions are equal Love is whatever I say it is That's where our society is now

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And again It leaves us completely open We have no meaningful Logical reason to say

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That well I shouldn't be able to love Multiple individuals I shouldn't be able to love

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Related individuals Intergenerational love How about interspecies love

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I mean if love is what I say it is What does it matter And these arguments are

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Already being made Absolute Sexual and moral

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Chaos It should not be happening inside a church

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But once you abandon the normative Authority and a belief that the scriptures Are sufficient remember

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He's quoting from Brownson He's quoting from Vines These individuals while they will profess

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Belief In the sufficiency of scripture Fundamentally deny it in their works Because their fundamental argument is

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Well we can't take these Texts as normative because of the fact That no one knew

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No one understood What orientation was back then

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So the bible is insufficient To address homosexuality As it exists today

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As if it existed differently back then Which of course is absurd But that's what they're getting away with So we have to When you hear someone

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I was telling someone they could never love No I was telling someone That God defines what love is

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And that what they were Defining as love is not love And that therefore

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They need to deal with These desires recognize that these Desires will actually be cutting them

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Off from true love And that's the starting place That's the starting place I don't know why

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Pastor Cortez would not have known that I don't know But he didn't

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Those words I could just feel The dread coming in the person I'm talking to And I was always wondering why

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Of all of God's commandments Why is this the one Commandment that just Just seemed like it was

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It was different from all of the other commandments That seemed to impart life And this is the one that just Just created so much self -hatred

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It was the sense of People feeling like they were Imprisoned you know a sentence of life

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With no chance to love Now There's so much there

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That again you have to Start to recognize The rhetoric that he has bought

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He's bought it lock, stock, and barrel Listen to what he said That results

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In so much Self -loathing So much self -hatred

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So if you say Inactivity is wrong in God's sight It's your fault if the person

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Then self -loathes themself So obviously if we say That pedophilia is wrong

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If a Pedophile loathes themselves It's our fault It's our fault

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The church has grossly mistreated Pedophiles Those who practice intergenerational love

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Because we would dare to say It's wrong The church causes the self -loathing of thieves

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The church causes The self -loathing of those who engage in Fornication The church causes

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The self -loathing of those who commit murder He says This was the one command

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No it's not You think of any single one

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Of the commandments of God And there has been a person who has broke that commandment

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And then Accused the church For all of his or her problems Because you made me

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Not love myself because you said I wasn't accepted by God Every single commandment

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You're going to find someone who has done that Every single one So what's special about homosexuality

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When you are given over in that way It becomes absolutely central To your self -identity

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That's what Romans 1 is all about And we're going to get to Romans 1 later on Because It's the one text

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That Pastor Cortez Attempted to deal with And obviously From my perspective

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That's one of the most important things to address Is the attempt In front of his church

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To deal with the text And What we discover over and over again

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Is this is where the wheels come off This is where the wheels of all come off In the debates Anybody who has watched them knows this is the case

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Once you start doing cross -examination It all comes apart You can only promote

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The pro -homosexual Biblical argument As a monologue

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Not in a debate or dialogue Unless of course The Christian you're dialoguing with Doesn't know what they're talking about Then I guess you can get away with it

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But if you have knowledgeable opposition Can't do it

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Just can't do it So Alright Let's press forward

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A quote by Matthew Vines Who said Did you catch that? Now we're quoting

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Matthew Vines And this book is fairly recent When they are very difficult

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They're not destructive to human dignity They don't lead to emotional And spiritual devastation

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And to the loss of self -esteem And self -worth But those Have been the consequences for gay people

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Of the traditional teaching on homosexuality It has not borne Good fruit in the lives

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And it's caused them incalculable pain and suffering If we're taking Jesus Seriously That bad fruit cannot come from a good tree

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Then this should be cause enough For us to question the traditional teaching And I remember

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Now We addressed this Quite some time ago

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When Matthew Vines Enunciated this argument In the church in Kansas It is repeated

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Forcefully In his book as well And we saw then That it is a vacuous argument

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It is an argument Based upon experientialism It is

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Specifically designed to overthrow Sound exegesis And it is an argument

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That would in essence Preclude the church from ever identifying Anything As a sinful behavior

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Because any person who is thereby impacted By the proclamation of their behavior

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As sin Could say this causes me self -hatred This causes me pain

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This is bad fruit And therefore it should be rejected And so The individual who

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Habitually shows Disrespect for father and mother Can say well

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The bible says I'm supposed to honor My father and my mother This has caused me great pain This is bad fruit

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And therefore if it's bad fruit Then that must not be what the bible actually teaches And so I don't have to worry about what the bible says about honoring

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Father and mother The thief can say it The fornicator can say it The glutton can say it

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The murderer can say it You name the slanderer and the gossiper And they can all say the same things

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That the commandment against Doing what I do with regularity Hurts me

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This is who I am You're not loving me for who I am And therefore this must be bad fruit

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And therefore it's to be rejected This is an absurdity No matter how often you present it No matter how much of a smile you have on your face

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When you say it This is not how you interpret God's law It is man -centered And it is the absolute formula

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For ethical and moral chaos And here you have

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At least currently until next week A southern baptist pastor Who's bought into this

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Who should know better But Has bought into this kind of Argumentation Quoting Matthew Vines at this point

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Saying this is bad fruit I'm not saying That the church has been perfect In it's response

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I don't use the term Homosexual community I do not believe we should ever allow for the idea

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That there is a community based upon sin That's like the fornicators community Or the thieves community

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Or the slanderers community It is a complete capitulation

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That we should In fact define Ourselves On the basis

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And it's a complete capitulation as well To the whole idea that this is natural I mean

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Pastor Cortez has completely given into that This is how God made you He's given into that Once you've given into that I would say you could never

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Create an even semi -biblical Anthropology at that point Because now you have

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A situation where each one of us We no longer have any Meaningful Ability To obey

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God's law Or to be held accountable for obeying God's law Because Whatever we're made of That's what we're going to do

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So if God makes you Prideful Then That's why he made you

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You're perfect the way you are God just loves you the way you are Rather than the fact

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That the Bible says we're created in the image of God And therefore We have the capacity to control

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Our desires I say well but not perfectly

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Well but the point is in this life It's a struggle and we learn And we grow

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As we seek by grace In light of the scriptures Led by the spirit of God To apply the principles

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Of the word of God to our lives So there you go

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Alright We press forward And so three years ago

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Over three years ago She left and I said I will I'll do that And I realized in my beginning of this

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More intensified and Intentional study I had to admit

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That much of what I knew about Homosexuality was not the result Of a long period

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Of study but it was Something that was passed down To me By either my parents

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Or the church and I just kind of never Took the time to actually Challenge any of those

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Thoughts but I was Now let me stop right there Sadly I'm sure that's the case

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For most of I've said it many times I graduated from seminary Without any meaningful

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Serious Interaction on the subject Of homosexuality I graduated you know

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In the 80's And It just Wasn't that big of an issue yet I mean you had

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AIDS and stuff like that but you didn't have The kind of movement that you have Today and so It just wasn't something you were supposed to talk about So I understand

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You've got to examine these things No question about it but I really Have to wonder since the only people he quotes from Are Brownson and Vines Why no quotes from Anybody on the other side

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I do wonder how much was read On the other side How much interaction there was with both sides

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That does You know when I see converts I know a lot of converts

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From a lot of different perspectives To different viewpoints and Very rarely is this

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Alleged Study Overly balanced very very rarely Here now at a place where I realized

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I have to engage in it And so as I began my study I realized that there was only 6 passages

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In all of scripture that really were Directly associated with Homosexuality Three of them are in the new testament

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Three of them are in the old And there's not a lot of time This morning to go through all of them

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And so I want to focus on the main one And that's Romans 1 Alright Yeah there are 6 specific passages

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That directly Address the subject Of homosexuality by Meaning and application

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But once again You cannot begin to Give a meaningful

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Biblical presentation on the subject If you limit yourself to those 6 Because The whole bible

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Is a heterosexual Book And everything it says About marriage

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And everything it says about human sexuality And everything it says in the illustrations that it uses

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And so you must Present a viewpoint of the scriptures That they simply cannot address

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Our modern situation in a meaningful fashion If you're going to Want to argue That Not only homosexual orientation

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And behavior But actually the redefining of marriage Is going to be acceptable from a biblical perspective

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It will require A complete fundamental reorientation Of everything that you believe About the inspiration of scripture, the relevance of scripture

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There are so many other areas That you are going to have to back off And say well actually you know I was wrong about that,

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I was wrong about that You really Don't have any place to go In defining sin

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Once you collapse on this point That's why it's so central That's why I've said over and over again One of the first line responses

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That you need to be prepared to enunciate When someone Attacks you

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For holding to a biblically Normative understanding of what sin is In regards to homosexuality

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Is why do you want me to deny That Jesus Christ died for my sins What do you mean?

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What you're telling me is I can't identify What sin is The bible is clear There's not a word of positive

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Affirmation in the entirety Of the bible of homosexual behavior Not a word If you believe that Jesus Christ was truly

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God incarnate And He was creating people Who were gay and he wanted them to be married

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He said nothing about it, then he was a coward He wasn't really God So you can't go there And so what you're telling me

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Is I can't define sin And therefore I have no grounds for believing that Jesus Christ Gave himself

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As the price for sin On the cross of Calvary You're telling me to deny The most central aspects of my faith

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Get it back to the gospel, get it back to biblical authority Do we need to know the six

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Verses? Of course we need to know the six verses But I would say don't start there Make sure that people understand

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That they are in essence Attacking the very heart Of Christianity And make sure they realize that From the very start

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From the very start So he goes to Romans 1 And We're gonna have to start and stop this

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Because it's It's It's amazing We've gone through Romans 1

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Many many times before Many many times before We don't have time today To do it as I would like to But when we have gone through it

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We've gone through it in a Thoroughly contextual fashion We have followed

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The flow of thought And the main thing To recognize and to remember

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In Romans chapter 1 Is the fact that What Paul is laying out

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Is the Result Of what happens when he who is Made in the image of God Refuses to acknowledge

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God Refuses to see what God has created Around him, suppresses the Knowledge of God, professes to be wise

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Becomes a fool, you have this thing called The exchange. Exchange is the truth God for life. Instead Of worshiping the creator who is forever blessed

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He begins to worship the creation And this can be in the grossest Forms of idolatry

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Or in the most subtle forms of Idolatry that we have today that takes place In every university classroom

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But the point is that man Is going to be twisted and going To be impacted by His refusal to acknowledge

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God. He's going to engage in all The various forms of idolatry and sin And as an

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Illustration of how Even the innermost Reaches of man's heart

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Is impacted By the effect of sin One of the

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Illustrations given is that of homosexuality That while God has Made us in one way

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Since we exchange the truth of God for a lie Since there is a twistedness In the creator creation

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Relationship That twistedness can even get down To the most basic elements

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Of our self Identification which includes Our sexual desire So that you have lesbianism, women

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Abandoning their role And then men burning in lust One for another, engaging in shameful

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Acts, receiving their own persons, due penalty Of their error, etc. etc. That is an illustration of what came before When you find people isolating

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That, when you find people separating It out, when you find people not Following that flow of thought

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All the way through, you're dealing With someone who's either ignorant or in most Cases they're trying to get around What this means

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They're going to use the, well This had something only to do With the

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People of their day It was a certain practice going on These were actually heterosexuals

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Who were acting like homosexuals Because Paul didn't know about homosexuals All this stuff None of which is derived

38:27

From an exegesis Of the text, or any meaningful Understanding Of what

38:33

Paul's context would have been I'm not deriving that from the text I'm not deriving that from the author It is specifically meant

38:41

To provide a way out It seems that Pastor Cortez's Understanding here is a mixture

38:49

Of Vines and Browns And all sorts of stuff All sort of jumbled together Which is frequently what these folks end up doing

38:57

They don't have a real clear Understanding But it was especially troubling to me

39:04

That a seminary graduate I don't know which seminary he graduated from Maybe somebody can find out for that For me

39:12

But a seminary graduate Who stayed in biblical languages Could make the comments he's going to make

39:17

Over the course of the next Five minutes And twenty seconds

39:24

Which I'll have to stop and start Obviously And so Romans 1 Paul is writing

39:31

This most Epic of epistles And keep in mind

39:36

He's trying to write about The glory of God and justification By faith And how grace abounds and how all of us

39:43

Have fallen short of the glory of God He's writing about These great truths and like any good

39:50

Writer he's trying to come up With a great introduction And so what

39:55

If I could stop right there While this is toward the beginning of the epistle This is not the introduction This is the

40:03

First of a series of Very important Arguments Laying out the bad news

40:11

That then gives you the foundation for understanding The good news And so Romans 1

40:16

Universal sinfulness Romans chapter 2 Then turns to the Jews saying I know

40:21

I've got you with me on that because you think The Gentiles do that but the reality is You do it too And making the same inward application

40:29

Getting past the outwardism The Jews had to address all the time With the Pharisees Leading then to in chapter 3

40:37

The concluding Catena of passages That leads him then into being able to announce justification

40:43

By faith because he's brought all the world Before God Had closed every mouth No self righteousness left

40:50

Etc etc So this isn't the introduction anymore This is the first portion of the major argument

40:56

Of the epistle itself Paul does In the very beginning

41:02

In verse 23 Ok now you can't jump into Paul's thought at verse 23

41:09

If you read Verse 23 without following The argument of verse 18 Yeah you're

41:15

Lost to start The break is between 17 and 18 Where he first makes reference

41:23

To the gospel and now he has to Begin to explicate And so for the wrath of God is being revealed

41:28

That's where the context really starts If you jump in later on Well In verse 22 it says

41:36

Although they claim to be wise They became fools and exchanged the glory Of the immortal

41:41

God for images Made to look like mortal human beings And birds and animals and reptiles

41:47

And therefore God gave them over In their sinful desires Of their hearts to sexual impurity

41:52

Ok nothing so far About The exchange That Paul's talking about The fact that if you suppress the knowledge of God It's going to have this inward change

42:03

This inward application The twistedness that's going to result in man And For the degrading of their

42:12

Bodies with one another they exchanged The truth of God for a lie And worship and created things

42:18

Rather than the creator who is forever praised Because of this God gave them over to shameful

42:24

Lust even their women exchanged Natural sexual relations For unnatural ones in the same way

42:30

The men abandoned natural relationships With women and were inflamed With lust for one another

42:36

Men committed shameful acts With other men and received in themselves A due penalty for their error

42:41

And they are in verse 29 They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit Malice, they are gossip, slanderers

42:48

God haters, insolent, arrogant Boastful, they invent new ways of doing evil Disobedience to parents

42:54

No understanding, no fidelity No love, no mercy Although they know God's righteous degree

43:01

That those who do such things Deserve death, they not only Continue to do these things But also

43:08

Approve of those who practice them And so Paul here is just listing

43:14

Down this The result of exchanging the truth of God For a lie He's saying that you've exchanged

43:21

God's truth For a lie in exchange of glory And now you're creating images Made to look in the form of human

43:28

Beings and birds and animals and reptiles And you're worshipping these idols And not only that, because of those

43:34

That idolatry that you have God hands you over and now You're involved in this gross

43:40

Sexual Sexual Immorality Men lying with men, women

43:48

You know, committing unnatural relations You know, and then there's gossip Slanderer, God haters, and all of that And so as Paul is

43:56

Writing down this escalating Crescendo of Human sin and arrogance

44:01

And evil The listeners

44:09

The recipients of this Letter are tracking Paul And they're saying to Paul Yes, that's evil, that's right

44:17

Everything about what you're saying We agree with And so Paul is

44:23

Creating this Introduction and really what he's Doing, I think, is that he's bringing

44:29

About, you know, what everybody In the Christian circle at Rome, both

44:35

Gentile And Jew were agreeing on Was there was this problem In the temple at Rome That there was this

44:43

Homosexual prostitution Okay, this is where I get completely Lost. What temple at Rome?

44:50

What temple At Rome? There wasn't a single Temple at Rome. There were Lots of pagan temples in Rome Corinth, all over the ancient world

45:00

So This is Romans is

45:05

Talking in universal terms He's now saying, well now he's Getting the People in Rome in the church

45:14

To agree with him and now he's going to Spring the trap on them, you're the same way No, he's talking about the Jews He turns the

45:20

Jews in chapter 2 And says you likewise do the same Things, but what's this about Temple in Rome?

45:27

There was no reference to a temple In Rome I think possibly

45:34

He's borrowing some of This from a really wild theory that Brownson has put out That the background here is

45:40

Caligula And Caligula's Wild behavior And that's what he wanted people to think of Was just that type of They can't

45:51

Allow Romans 1 to be as universal As the church has always understood Romans 1 to be Because if it is

45:57

Katie bar the door You can't come up with any kind of Meaningful way of promoting

46:03

Any idea That the bible Is going to be Positive toward same sex relationships

46:11

In any context It's just not going to work You've got to find a way To limit

46:17

The problem is Romans 1 doesn't have any limitations And when you really

46:23

Allow it to speak for itself It's message is clear It's compelling, it's consistent

46:29

Flows right through Like an unimpeded river From chapter 1, chapter 2, chapter 3

46:35

It's beautiful, powerful You've got to Put all sorts of interruptions in the way

46:40

To get away from that Violence and abuse And all the sexual immorality that was going on And so Paul was setting this up Trying to think of What's the most evil thing

46:52

I could think of And this is it It's the evil Roman Empire And especially the practices

46:59

Of their leaders Yeah that's coming from Brownson The practice of their leaders,

47:05

Caligula, stuff like that He hasn't tried to establish that And I think Brownson didn't even get close

47:11

To trying to do that either But Like I said This works well in monologue

47:18

It does not work well in dialogue He's going to say later on I'm sure someone's going to take this video And they're going to write a whole response to it

47:24

And then there will be a counter response The whole idea being Who really knows

47:31

No, I don't think this stuff Can survive debate I think

47:38

I've got a basis for saying that I've taken into a few of them And unless you want to say

47:44

That Barry Lynn And John Shelby Spong And these types of individuals Just weren't up to the task

47:50

Okay Let's get Matthew Vines and Brownson together

47:57

And Michael and I will take them on And we'll see Who can consistently deal with the word of God On that level

48:05

We'll do it Immorality that occurs within the temple And so everyone is saying yes

48:11

Yes that is evil And Paul has them in his hands now

48:17

Because just as the people are resonating And pointing fingers And saying that's so despicable

48:25

Now again, who's saying this? The whole trap he's going to spring In Romans chapter 2

48:30

Is the trap of self -righteousness In regards to the Jews And what's his purpose?

48:36

Well if you look at Romans chapter 3 So that all the world might become guilty Before God So that then you have one gospel

48:44

For Jew and Gentile That's dealing with Romans honestly There's nothing new there

48:49

This isn't controversial Shouldn't be controversial But you What motivates this

48:57

Sudden, must be radical change In even exegesis of Romans On the part of this

49:04

Southern Baptist pastor That's the question we have to ask The very first verse

49:10

Of Romans chapter 2 Paul turns the table on them And he says, therefore you have no excuse

49:17

You who pass judgment On someone else For at whatever point you judge another

49:22

You are condemning yourself Because you who pass judgment Listen to this

49:27

Do the very same things So that's addressed to the church?

49:34

That's addressed to the church? Really? No it's not It's addressed to the

49:40

Jews as he's going to say As he's going to make it painfully clear And so If you turn this into Oh they're listening and they're going

49:48

Oh yeah yeah yeah You know Notice what it talks about All the things that talk about Chapter 2

50:00

The beginning, who's he referring to? He's referring to those who are judging Self -righteously He's referring to the ones who are externalists

50:07

He's referring to the Jews And he Wants to bring them

50:14

Into The category Of everyone who stands before God Condemned Until you recognize that you are

50:23

Condemned before God for your sin You're not going to be looking for a savior You're not going to understand the need for the gospel Now by changing this

50:31

He's saying I'm actually speaking to the church Wow that's a Radical concept

50:38

To the people Who've already recognized their sin Direct contradiction 1

50:43

Corinthians 6 Such were some of you but you were washed But you were Yeah well that's a problem

50:51

And so Paul is saying the reason Why I'm writing all of Romans 1

50:56

Was to create This realization Of how great

51:02

Your sin is It wasn't so that we could judge Everyone else

51:07

Paul really in this magnificent Brilliant writing style

51:12

Was saying I'm writing all of this But really I'm getting you to agree

51:18

With how evil it is and then telling you Guess what? You're just the same way

51:23

Really? As long as we recognize That this is to The self righteous person

51:32

Who boasts in the law And boasts their knowledge of the law Great But that's not what he's saying

51:39

And notice what just happened here Very subtly but it's a massive shift What he just said

51:47

Was Laying the foundation for saying That everything he just said really We shouldn't be able to identify

51:53

As evil Is that really What Paul said? Of course not Of course not

52:00

He was talking about The great exchange He was talking about the evil of idolatry

52:07

There's perfect consistency and harmony Paul is showing His masterful

52:13

Ability at the exegesis Of the text of scripture here The scripture which they would have had

52:19

The Old Testament drawing all the way From Genesis 1 All the way through the prophets

52:26

In what he's saying In Romans chapter 1 Romans chapter 2 isn't a Oh I didn't really mean that We can't judge anybody for those things

52:34

It was a And if you judge people for that And then do the same thing in your own heart You're not going to escape from God's judgment

52:42

The whole purpose being You bring Jews and Gentiles together Into one group To hear that final

52:49

Recitation Text of scriptures There's no fear of God before their eyes

52:54

There's none that does good And therefore every mouth is closed All self righteousness is cut off And now and only now

53:03

Do you get to hear the gospel There's Romans 1, 2, and 3

53:10

The problem is That if you read Romans 1, 2, and 3 In that fashion

53:16

Recognize Paul's purposes There's no way around the fact That he does use as one of his

53:21

Primary illustrations of the twistedness Of human sin, homosexuality And if you want to say homosexuality is good

53:27

If you want to say homosexuality Is the way that God has made you You've got to get rid of Romans 1 And so you're going to twist this text

53:33

And that's what's happening here And therefore Paul says Don't judge anyone

53:40

And yet we use Romans 1 By the way Paul didn't say Don't judge anyone

53:47

Where does that come Let's look back at that But do you suppose this oh man

53:53

When you pass judgment on those who practice such things And do the same yourself That you will escape the judgment of God Isn't that Jesus is talking about the hypocrisy

54:03

Of men Who say one thing and do something else So are you saying

54:09

That sinners can never identify sin Is that what this is about Sort of where he ends up Sadly I guess

54:17

As the passage most Most often to judge All sorts of people

54:26

The sad thing is Here you have a pastor In front of his people And many

54:35

Fall into the Follow anything the pastor says syndrome And the result

54:42

Would be Oh yeah must be Okay okay And the fact that this church is splitting

54:49

And there are a bunch of people staying with them Demonstrates that that's Exactly what happened Alright there's two more clips

54:57

I want to get to May go a few minutes over If we have to It would be silly to try to wrap this up on another program

55:04

So let's get to them as quickly as we can God that was wicked All of that stuff

55:10

That's unjust God I believe your word That No one should behave that way

55:22

But as you begin to Realize that we've moved

55:27

Away From that part of history We've moved away from that part of history

55:37

And what we find now Is something very different We've moved away

55:44

From that part of history This is a nice way of saying What Paul was saying and explaining idolatry then

55:50

Just doesn't matter to us anymore We've moved away from it We know more Paul didn't know

55:57

This is why every Gay Christian advocate

56:04

Must compromise The efficiency of scripture It's almost like Halloween I remember when my kids were first born

56:14

I was thinking should I let my kids do Halloween Because I remember watching a Calvary Chapel Video that said you know it's demonic

56:20

You know and you go trick -or -treating You're actually worshipping Satan And blah blah blah blah And then

56:25

I realized no I don't think they're really doing that So let's go trick -or -treating But if you were to look at the origins of it

56:36

It's true it was cultic They would build bonfires, sacrifice animals Wear costume, go trick -or -treating

56:42

Which was you know Souling, which was receiving food In return for prayer for the dead

56:48

And so in terms of Halloween I could make a case that no one Should do Halloween because look

56:53

It's filled with cultic practices But we know that it's okay To do Halloween now, why?

56:59

Because the meaning has changed The meaning has changed

57:07

Okay folks, what we're getting here Is a Halloween illustration About the change of meaning

57:14

Of things Being made relevant to the idea That the meaning of men

57:20

Burning in lust for other men Meant something then That it doesn't mean today

57:26

That's what we're getting And that's what

57:33

I feel like Has happened Homosexual behavior

57:41

Is not What it was In biblical days When it was filled with Violence And abuse

57:50

And rape And slavery And temple prostitution

57:56

There you go See, the Bible is addressing

58:02

A different kind of homosexuality Than Well, okay

58:08

Yeah, we have seen a few Gay pride marches Okay, it was addressing that part

58:13

But the kind of homosexuality We want to promote Which is this

58:20

Monogamous, committed, faithful Lifelong relationship type They didn't know about that back then

58:26

Well, we hardly know about today Do we? I mean, honest studies would indicate

58:34

That we're talking about a tiny Percentage Of the

58:40

Homosexual community Don't like the phrase But tiny percentage

58:47

That have any Desire for that at all The vast majority of male homosexuals do not want marriage And they do not want one partner

58:54

Vast majority So will you at least admit it's relevant to them? That's what

59:01

I would ask But this idea that, well This is nothing more than The exact assertion of Well, they didn't know

59:11

About the committed Monogamous, lifelong Relationship desire thing

59:16

The spirit of God just didn't seem to know What was going on back then That's what you've got to say

59:25

And I think there's Good evidence that Paul Did know About people who had

59:34

Similar desires To say that he was ignorant of that And to say that the spirit of God Is ignorant of that Is really, really bad

59:43

Well, there's much to be addressed But we do need to hear The end of this story

59:50

We've seen the Missing Of Romans 1

59:55

The bad mishandling of Romans 1 The lack of following the context

01:00:01

And argument through in the book of Romans Of Romans 1 The introduction of some Roman temple

01:00:06

Some place in Romans 1 But You need to understand the

01:00:13

The grabbing By the use of emotions That was a part of this

01:00:18

And we'll just play a portion of it here toward the end If you want to know what love looks like You don't buy

01:00:25

A book about love You look at the Samaritan who the Jews considered

01:00:31

Faulty of theology A compromiser by Virtue of his identity

01:00:37

You look at someone who's Been marginalized And you see that this

01:00:43

Is how to love And so that's what I've been doing

01:00:49

I've been going Into the homosexual community To the LGBTQ Areas I've been going to AIDS clinics

01:00:58

I've been going to gay bars I've been going to gay coffee houses Bringing my books, studying, trying to meet

01:01:04

People I've been going to gay conferences That didn't sound overly balanced

01:01:11

To me, to be perfectly honest with you Listening to their stories Letting them

01:01:16

Vent to me The abuse they felt from the church Vent to me

01:01:22

The abuse they felt from the church Why don't we go to the prisons

01:01:28

And find out about the abuse from Murderers they felt from the church Or any number of other sinners

01:01:34

Who just don't like to have anybody Tell them what God's law actually says And here

01:01:40

I am, listening And saying

01:01:45

I'm sorry I am so Sorry But in those conversations

01:01:58

I realized That in that place

01:02:07

I saw the presence of God And so over the summer

01:02:13

I remember thinking Wow, did I just Did I just change my view

01:02:23

I remember it was just a thought in my mind And it caught me off guard Do I no longer believe that same -sex

01:02:29

Marriage and relationships In a loving Monogamous way Is permitted by scripture

01:02:36

And I remember thinking, wow, that felt weird Did I just become liberal Did I just Lose my faith

01:02:44

And I remember scared about that actually I was like, I didn't intend to do that And then

01:02:50

I heard a song On the radio thinking Oh my gosh, that's a pro -gay song And I'm actually liking it

01:02:57

And I thought, oh man What's wrong with me And I remember not wanting to talk it over with anybody

01:03:02

Until I was driving My son Drew to school And that song came on in the radio

01:03:10

Again and I was like, oh, the song And so I looked over At Drew and I asked

01:03:15

Drew Hey Drew, who sings this song And Drew said It's Macklemore, how come dad

01:03:22

And I said, oh, because I like the song And Drew looked over at me and said Dad, you like the song, do you know what it's about And I said

01:03:30

Yeah, I know what it's about And I said, I think I changed my My thoughts about homosexuality

01:03:38

And then he said And then he remained silent And I could tell that He felt a little bit like confused about that And so as we got out of the car

01:03:47

And I was helping him with something in school I looked over at him And I said, Drew, what do you think about it

01:03:55

And he turned over to me And he says Dad I'm gay

01:04:06

I remember I just turned around And I hugged him so hard And I said,

01:04:12

I love you so much Son I love you so much

01:04:19

And I accept And I affirm you And I will love you unconditionally

01:04:28

It was just the most meaningful moment That I had ever had with Drew I felt like I had lost

01:04:34

So many years of not knowing The pain that was going on in his heart And thinking,

01:04:39

Drew Why didn't you tell me before And he said, dad, if I said anything If I said anything

01:04:45

He would admit that I was giving up I was trying to fight my gayness I didn't want to admit it

01:04:51

And I hated myself I hated myself all the time And I said,

01:04:56

Drew I'm so sorry for not Not being there with you

01:05:02

But know Know that I will be your father And I will love you I will love you unconditionally

01:05:10

I couldn't help but thank God Drew was born Two months after New Heart started

01:05:16

And the whole time of New Heart Was in preparation for this It was in preparation

01:05:23

For this moment And I said, God, thank you Thank you,

01:05:28

God, that you brought me in a place Where I'm no longer judging People That think different from me

01:05:37

I said, God How freeing that is And as we caught up to My son's life, you know

01:05:43

We felt like we had lost so much So much time with him

01:05:51

On his birthday, this December 30 Thank you He said to us, you know

01:06:01

This is the first time I woke up on my birthday Where I was at peace I said, what do you mean?

01:06:08

He said, every birthday I would wake up and realize I'm still gay And I knew

01:06:13

God hadn't answered My prayer And there was another time In the car where he said,

01:06:19

Dad You know, you guys I want you to know that I'm still If somebody gave me a pill

01:06:26

Right now that could change My gayness, I would take it right now And so I thought about that And I went up to him

01:06:38

The next day and I said, Drew I want You to know that if I had a pill

01:06:43

That could change you I wouldn't give it to you Because you're perfect Just the way you are

01:06:52

No more fighting, Drew No more Fighting Except the way

01:06:58

God has made you Because I love you Just the way you are Now In our society

01:07:09

It is The greatest Sin to Question The emotional expression

01:07:24

Of Someone With tears About something

01:07:30

That is important to them As you just saw It is It doesn't matter

01:07:37

What he was just saying In our society today He could be talking about anything And you're just simply supposed to sit there

01:07:44

And honor it That's how our society now thinks

01:07:54

Here is a man standing before the people of God And the reality is that he is In a position where he will be judged

01:08:00

By God for what he says before God's people He is in place In a position of handling the word of God And as a minister

01:08:08

Your personal feelings And experiences are to be subjected To the overriding authority of the word of God And the

01:08:16

Commitment that you've made To Shepherd the flock of God And to speak only the truth of God Our society

01:08:27

Doesn't understand vows and oaths Any longer We take vows and oaths of fidelity

01:08:33

To our husband and wife Better or worse, richer or poorer In sickness and in health Until death do us part

01:08:38

And we know that for the vast majority of people Those are just words today They don't really mean much We see so many broken marriages

01:08:47

And we see so many people taking oaths of office I'll protect and defend the Constitution of the

01:08:52

United States Blah blah blah blah We just don't take that stuff very seriously anymore And unfortunately even in the

01:08:58

Christian ministry To Vow to handle the word of God And to speak the truth no matter what

01:09:04

It costs us Um Well it's just not all that popular

01:09:09

And it's difficult for us to explain to the world Watching us Even if we take seriously those things

01:09:16

Why we would listen to a man Like this And why I would listen to him saying

01:09:24

You're perfect The way you are That is not showing love for his son

01:09:32

He may feel All the emotions in the world But from a Christian perspective

01:09:38

That's not love for his son Because his son Has given in To a set of desires and behaviors

01:09:45

That will bring him destruction And here you have a father saying

01:09:51

You're perfect the way you are You're perfect the way you are This is an utter capitulation

01:09:58

Nothing that has come before this Provides any foundation Whatsoever For the assertion that This is exactly how

01:10:05

God made my son to be And he's perfect the way he is Nothing has been said that would substantiate that But this is the primary assertion

01:10:16

Of what's being said This is the primary element This is an utter capitulation

01:10:24

It's an abandonment Of not only The requirement to handle

01:10:30

Or write the word of God But to submit ourselves As ministers

01:10:36

To that word No matter what it costs us And no matter how personal that might be

01:10:43

I don't question The sincerity Of Pastor Sanchez's desire

01:10:48

To love his son But I do question the wisdom Of the path that he has taken as a Christian minister

01:10:55

And I question that he has any biblical basis For looking at his son And encouraging him

01:11:01

To continue to define His entire personhood On the basis of disordered desire

01:11:08

That's not love That's not love That's capitulation to society

01:11:19

Now sadly There are people

01:11:25

I know Right now watching this Who have nothing but disdain For this man

01:11:31

You are wrong, you are completely missing the point Shame on you Stop If by God's grace

01:11:41

You recognize what he's done wrong Don't you dare boast Of that grace

01:11:49

You're not walking in his shoes If you've not gone through what he's going through How dare you

01:11:56

Say well you're just saying that he's Violated his vow before Yeah I am saying that It does not follow that I can then

01:12:04

Mistreat the man He's going to have to answer Before God for this

01:12:10

He's going to have to answer Before God for the vows that he's made Why in the world should I think That I need to add some kind of Acerbic response

01:12:19

And heap some kind of Venom upon the individual I don't get that, I don't understand it

01:12:27

Your desire should be to pray for him Pray for his son His son is now in a situation

01:12:34

Where his minister father Is not going to give him The proper direction

01:12:39

In this matter Which will lead to the destruction Of his life That should be a reason for sadness

01:12:49

Not for mocking the man Now, next week

01:12:56

If Did I say Sanchez? I'm sorry, I'm not looking at that Pastor Cortez Apologize I don't know the man individually

01:13:09

Next week, I would assume

01:13:14

The Southern Baptist Convention will act They have to As Dr. Moeller pointed out

01:13:20

If we don't Then the entire convention is basically saying We're going to give in on this issue

01:13:27

They may act here But what happens Next year I don't know where the convention is next year

01:13:35

But Let's say they were getting together In Dallas next year What if there are 25 churches 50 churches

01:13:49

What will happen then? What if it's 100 churches? What's going to happen then?

01:13:56

I don't know I'm just simply pointing out the reality That this

01:14:03

I even thought of this one video I've seen of the tsunami That hit

01:14:08

Japan And you can watch it Coming in and at first There's just this ripple

01:14:14

And then it gets bigger And eventually, well, we all saw it It's amazing This is that first ripple

01:14:24

And I don't like being negative And saying there is a tsunami coming after this

01:14:31

But I think I'm on really solid ground In saying there's a tsunami coming after this And you may feel

01:14:39

Very comfortable Sitting here right now going I would never What about when we are the

01:14:47

Real small minority And what's happening in Colorado Is now happening in every single state

01:14:53

And if you dare Open your mouth You get to have your thinking corrected

01:14:59

You get to spend your weekends By law Listening to some

01:15:05

Pointy headed bureaucrat lecture you On secular Humanist ethics

01:15:14

Will really test How much you really believe what you believe And how much you really understand what you believe Really will

01:15:22

So we pray for Pastor Cortez For the church

01:15:29

For his son Pray for the Southern Baptist Convention Pray for The spirit

01:15:36

In which this disciplining action Will have to take place And I pray for Those Southern Baptist leaders

01:15:45

That will have to be The ones Out front Because the media will jump on this

01:15:53

And represent it as hateful And everything else And obviously Al Mohler is probably going to be the primary person

01:16:01

Who's going to have to respond to that And so we pray for him And the clarity

01:16:07

Of thought And the fact that there can be Absolutely no compromise here

01:16:12

But you can express a message Of compromise without hatred And I hope and pray

01:16:20

That Dr. Mohler Will make sure That people understand That when they say that we're being hateful here

01:16:28

In reality They are expressing Their demand That we deny

01:16:36

The cross of Jesus Christ To agree with them on this issue I know he understands why that is

01:16:45

And I hope he'll have the opportunity To be able to express that To a much wider audience

01:16:52

So let's pray about this situation And let's be ready It's not theoretical

01:16:58

By any stretch of the imagination anymore Every one of us, every one of you Needs to know

01:17:06

Why you believe And what you believe on this matter And be able to express it with clarity

01:17:11

To others Thanks for watching The Dividing Line today Lord Willen will be back on Thursday We've got lots of things

01:17:19

That we haven't gotten to in a while And all sorts of articles Piled up and who knows what's going to happen