Protestant & Catholic Discussion, 2/19/2019

Opening Technical Setup and Early Audience Greetings

All right, I started this about a minute early and put the links up so people can check it out. Hopefully it'll work out fine, everything will be fine. And let me just check a couple of settings. I'm gonna keep talking while I'm doing that because it helps fill the time.

There we go, that's good. All right, so I'm live on YouTube and also live on StreamYard. Now what I have to do is go and put the information on Facebook, the CARM Facebook, which I said I would do it a little before 6.

Let's see if I can get that going. All right, there we go. All right, now post. There it is. Okay, so here we are. Hi Bill. Hi Terry. How are you? Hello Jimmy. Decaf coffee, that's good. Man, it is. Oh, that's nice.

All right, so well, you know, as they're listening, Laura, I think you might find, hopefully, that I'm patient and I try and be loving to the people with whom I disagree. And so hopefully that'll happen.

People will come in, the Catholics will come in, and we can have a discussion. That's what I'm hoping. I'm not against Catholics. A lot of Roman Catholics think I hate them. I don't. This is strictly an issue of the gospel, and my desire to get that gospel preached and taught to as many people as possible.

And having studied the cults for 40 years and false doctors for 40 years, I'm convinced that the Roman Catholic Church preaches a false gospel. And so in light of that, so here we have this opportunity to have a discussion.

And I don't know if the Catholics are going to show up. You're welcome to participate. In fact, I think Charlie might be in. And so I'll put this here. And there we go. So if you want to participate in the speech, you know, by speech, via speech, you click on that link.

But, you know, as a lot of you are already on the YouTube link, you can go there. And I'm not exactly sure how it works on the on the Facebook page, I think, because I'm sending it to Karm Facebook. It should be there as well.

And let's see. Whoops, I got to get that out. Okay, hold on a second. Do you want me to post the info on your forum, or do you want to do that? I think it'd be, I didn't put your forum on it. Okay, here goes.

So I'm going to go into the Catholic forum, and get all the information here again. Let's see if they participate. His idea. There, I'm blaming him. So now it's on the Catholic Church Reformation Debates forum.

Hopefully it'll kick in in a second here. Got a lot of things going on, and usually it takes a minute or two for things to happen. Hey Andrew. So Andrew Graham. Yeah, hey Matt.

Hi, how are you doing? Pretty good. Just thought I'd jump in and see if I can put.

In 10 cents worth or whatever it is. Okay, are you Catholic? I don't remember. I.

Am Protestant, but I will tell you so far as I know that I need God, he doesn't need me. That's how it works. Yep, he doesn't need us. Yeah, pretty much. So if I've got that understanding correct, then I guess I'm a Calvinist.

Okay, well good. Here's all the.

Info. Let me do it this way. We're still, hope that, hopefully this works. I just put a bunch of stuff in. I think, we'll see what happens. Did it go all the way? Yes, it did. All of it, all the text worked.

Good. If people want to put other places, that's fine. So believe it or not, let me tell you what kind of what's going on here. As you guys know, I'm very much against Roman Catholicism. I consider it to be apostate.

It doesn't mean I hate Catholics. It doesn't mean I'm going to yell at them. It doesn't mean I'm going to curse them like they do to me. And so I was invited to participate in a very large, here we go, very large Facebook group run by a Catholic.

And he's the one who suggested I do this. He's a nice guy. He knows, I believe that the gospel of Catholicism is false. He doesn't yell at me, doesn't curse me out. He understands that it's a loving thing that I'm trying to get across.

And so a few days ago, I remoted into his computer. There's a safe way to do it. And I helped him do some stuff and, you know, we just, no big deal. And so he said, hey, why don't you come on in and see if you can do a Q &A.

Now I've offered this before on that forum and the Catholics don't show up. They say all kinds of stuff. They want to debate me. They want to correct me. They went, oh, fine. I got to have a discussion.

And then they don't show up. And then they complain about it. Oh, I'm not going to go where you're in control. Well, you know what? Have, I don't care. Have the Catholic Robert Sledge guy do it. I don't care.

He can be in control of it. Doesn't bother me any. I'll answer questions. But anyway, so he asked if I would do this. I said, yeah. One of the other things he actually asked me to do was to get on and do a discussion where I would defend Calvinism.

The Roman Catholics really don't like Calvinism. And something I find over the years I think is interesting is that cults and Catholics do not like Calvinism. And I think I know why. Because it takes salvation out of their hands and puts it in God's hands.

That's what I think. What do you think, Andrew? I know you're muted, but what do you think? Yeah, I just,.

Because the background noise is never going to get on again. Sure. Yeah. What do I think? Well, yeah, I hesitate to lump them in the same categories as JWs and Mormons and the usual suspects, shall we say.

But I definitely, definitely agree that it is full of, at least alarm bells for me to stay out of it. Try and list them. I think, I think my major case they've given me the evidence recently is the way they title their books.

So one of the latest ones I know of is the book titled, The Bible is a Catholic Book. Yeah. And the other claims that they like to make is they are the first pure Christians. Yeah. Well, you know, I've written.

I have massive issues with that.

Oh, I do too. You know, they gave us the Bible. They're the author of the Bible. You know, they're taking credit for what God did. And I asked them, did they give us the Old Testament? Well, no, but we're the ones who decided that it was part of the canon.

No, it was already part of the canon. They already recognize the Jews are the ones who.

Recognize that. It wasn't the Catholics that did that. Yeah. And they left one and two Maccabean out and they put the apocrypha in. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. You got Bill Chibberis.

I hope I pronounced his name sufficiently well. Yeah. He's in close enough. How do you pronounce.

Your name? Hey, you know, I'm better. I can hardly hear you. Sure. If the Roman, if you think Catholicism is apostate, were they once a Christian or how would I know what I'm saying or.

Well, see how I look at it is in part out of ignorance because I don't know the history of how the Roman Catholic Church got its start. But when the first church began, it was the Christian church and it was written about in the book of Acts.

That's the early church. That's the earliest of church. That's where we see Christian truth. We see it in the Ephesians. We see it in the Galatian church. We see it in Colossae. We see it in these areas.

Well, they were persecuted because the Roman empire was against Christianity for a long time. Nero was killing Christians in the 60s. And so Christians were fleeing to the hills. All right. Well, there is no real ecclesiastical organized structure at this point because a lot of people are fleeing.

Now there's different churches or different places. And this is where I need to study more or have a historian teach me. So, yeah, this area of geography, they were pretty free. This one over here, they were not.

Overall, they were persecuted this way. They kind of kept their head down low, that kind of thing. Because in that kind of a context, you don't find the official church. And so he was killing a lot of people basically.

Nero would light the Christians on fire for his orgies and stuff like that, go on post. But at any rate, so when Christianity started taking over, becoming popular, then they started having councils. Well, what I understood was in the issue of the Donatist issue.

The Donatist issue was there was a persecution going on and certain Christians gave sacred documents over to the unbelievers who then destroyed them. And then when the persecution ended, the Christians repented, should they be allowed back into fellowship with the church?

And so the Donatist discussion came and bishops gathered, presbyters gathered, and they discussed these things. That's what I see as being the real beginning of the Roman Catholic Church in that it had an ecclesiastical organization at that point.

Now, this is my opinion. I'm not going to die in that hill. And so from then on, now what I need to find out is what doctrines came into the Catholic Church at what point. And the one that would convince it for me is that when apostate is definitely the issue of works righteousness, where they would say that salvation is by grace through faith and works and things like this.

That would mean it's apostate. Whenever that became official, that would be a designation of apostasy. I think another one of their apostasy that would designate it would be the Mariolatry, the issue of raising Mary to the level of a semi-goddess.

And so this is an apostate thing because it's going against the scripture of elevating a creature, and it's just clear. So one of those or both of those would be historical markers for when the Roman Catholic Church and its official ecclesiastical slash political combination decided to include those things.

And that for me would convince me that that's when it became apostate. So I don't look at the Roman Catholic Church as being the true church. The true church is comprised of the believers, those who are indwelled by God.

2 Corinthians 6 .16, 1 Corinthians 3 .16, Philippians, I mean John 14 .23. These are the things that make us born again, the presence of God indwelling us. We're made new creatures, 2 Corinthians 5 .17.

And so this is not the issue of the true church. And so I think the Catholics just miss so much when they fail to see what the true issues are. Anyway, you asked me that question, it's a long answer.

Marian Dogmas, the Eucharist, and the Church Fathers

Has the Marian dogmas came in the 1950s?

Oh no, there's more, more than that. Yeah, it was way earlier than that. The Marian dogmas, let's see, I don't know, I can just type this in, chronology of Marian doctrines. Let's see. And I could do some research, write an article on this as well.

So Rome depicts Mary as protectrix, but the departed of the advocate. So that's the 100 to 206, an inscription says that. In his letters, Ignatius of Antioch makes five references to Mary as virgin and mother.

And it'd be worth to go through these and go through them, take a few days, look them up and things like that. And by the way, guys, I'm going to share a link with you. I have found something that I think is just invaluable in my research on the early church fathers.

And it's done, I believe by Catholic, a Catholic group or whoever, whatever. And I have to admit, it's really well done. It really is. And so if you were to, and put the link in here, for example, right there, if you were to go there to that link and type in, you know, for example, let's say Colossians 2 .14, then what it does, I'm really impressed with this.

This is, it's so well done. It really is. What it'll do is it'll go through all the church fathers and then it's brilliantly done. I'm really impressed with it. And it lists up the verses, the references inside the apostolic fathers and highlights the references inside of those things.

It's great. So I spent some time yesterday and today looking about the Eucharist and found even more quotes from the church fathers that said that the Eucharist is symbolic. Now that's not to say that some, this is more research I got to do.

I'm just kind of rambling here, but more research I got to do is a lot of the church fathers would say that this is body and blood, but what does that mean? What do they mean by, do they mean that in, with and under the real presence, it becomes the element, the elements become the body and things like that?

To what degree? And you can't find that. At least I didn't. In all the research I did, I didn't find any of that. So now you have to interpret what they meant by those statements. And anyway, it's a problem, but nevertheless, it's a great resource.

And so I've been spending more and more time on there. I just got to look up a verse. And like I did on, oh, where was it today? I'm doing research. Matthew 26, 28, I think it was. Let's see. On, let's see.

Matthew 26, 28. Yeah. Yeah. For this is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out. They say to you, a drink of the fruit, take ye this by body. And I was doing research. I put in that verse, for example, Matthew 26, say 26.

And then what I can do is once all those come up, I can just do a control F and look for the word symbol, look for the word represent. And then it gives you the highlights and you can go read the context and see what they're saying.

And you know, when I've done this before, I find that the statement, the universal or the unanimous consensus of the church fathers is not true. It is not true. It is just not true. Not in every.

Doctrine, that's for sure. Anyway. You know, you know, Matt, when I talk to Catholics, I ask them, I go, can you show me where in your sacraments, not your sacraments, but the catechisms, the councils and manmade traditions, are they inspired by God?

And they can never come up with that. I mean, it's basically, it's not inspired by God. So we must go to the Bible for resource.

Now you're saying, say that again. I didn't quite follow you.

Can you show me where in your catechisms, manmade traditions and councils and church teachings that they are inspired by God. Can you hear me? Okay. Yeah. There we go.

I mean, whether catechism is inspired by God or the tradition is inspired, catechism, they would never, they wouldn't say that it's inspired. You know, the council of Trent. Yeah. Well, you know what?

The council of Trent bound itself. It cannot go against what's revealed in the council of Trent. And if they do, really problematic, which is why we have set of a cantus. Yes. Yeah.

All right. I'm sorry. When was the council of Trent?

Yeah. The council of Trent. I forgot the exact information. Yeah. It was just as a result of the reformation actually.

Oh, okay. That's just after. Okay. Right. Just after, because the reformation,.

They were going back to the Bible and they were reading what the Bible said and believe what the Bible said, a set of traditions that were imposed. The problem here is that when you're an official church and you have this power of dogma and proclamation and you make a statement, well, then you've got, the statement isn't exactly biblical.

You got to find a way to make it work. Now I'm going to say this. I think the Roman Catholic church is brilliant in its ability to construct an interrelated kind of a system of thought that has consistency.

Sometimes it's very deep and it doesn't mean it's true, but they do this. The Mormons do the same kind of a thing. This is why I recognize it in the Catholic church. If you're inside the Mormon worldview, things make sense until you start really examining, applying logic, and then the worldview collapses.

The same thing with Catholicism, but they have this pretty sophisticated interwoven system of thought. What I find fascinating is how the Roman Catholic is so loyal to the true church. They're not loyal, in my opinion, to Jesus.

I'm not trying to insult a Catholic, but I think they're more loyal to their church than to Christ and to his word.

That's my opinion. What do you guys think? Well, I see them streaming like ants out of some of the churches when they're going through communion. You know when they are. There's a church at Sunnybank in Brisbane.

It's right on the corner near a train station. The crossing's there. It's like a flow of people coming out of the church directly onto the street and going back. Then they turn the other way, coming in for their communion and their confessions or whatever they want to do.

I guess I've never been in the church to see what they do. I don't want to, to be totally honest with you. Just the way I look at it, it's a workspace religion automatically. If I don't go to this, then this isn't going to work.

Right. Then they have.

Condign merit, congruent merit, strict merit definitions and things like that. But this tradition thing happens inside of Protestantism too. My first pastorate was an assistant pastorate at a Dutch reformed church.

My last name is Slick. I don't know if you know much about Dutch, but I still remember I'm six feet tall looking down at this lady. She's shorter than me. I was introduced as Dominee, which is a teacher.

I don't need that. Just call me Matt. It's fine. But they had their tradition. She said, well, what's your name? I said, Matt Slick. She said, your last name is what? I said, Slick. She looked at me and said, Slickstra.

She could not get out of that mindset of the Dutch tradition. We ended up butting heads, the church and I, over the next year and a half. I mean, politely, but over issues. I saw the tradition that happens in Protestantism.

People like tradition. They find security and regularity.

It happens. Slick being German wouldn't have helped you either because the Dutch and the Germans were at each other's throats. Yes. Pretty much most of the Cold War and World War II.

That's true. Oh, yeah. Now, Crystal asks a question. Why did they teach that Mary was sinless? Because of Luke 128. It says this, and coming in, he said to her, greetings. Actually, it says in the NSV, favored one, highly favored one.

And some say it means full of grace. The unfortunate thing is that it's the Greek, which means highly favored one. And the phrase, kariskaritas, full of grace is not used there, but it is used in John 114.

And I'll explain this, but they say that she's full of grace because if she's full of grace, then she can't have sin in her because she's full of grace. So is demons. That's the argument. So John 114, and the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory and the glory of the only begotten, full of grace and truth.

Okay. Full of grace and truth. That's what it says right there. So Jesus obviously was full of grace and also truth. And so we have that phrase right there, full of grace, and it's plariskaritas. Well, it just so happens that someone else was full of grace and truth, and that was Thomas, excuse me, Stephen.

Okay. You go to Acts. I gotta find the exact verse. Acts chapter six. I believe it is six. And come on, full of grace and power, six, eight. And Stephen, full of grace, plariskaritas. It's the same phrase, full of grace and power.

Now the logic here, you have to ask if Mary was sinless because she was full of grace, then was Stephen sinless because he was full of grace. And it actually says in the Greek full, plaras or plares, and karitas or karitas, grace, full of grace.

That's what it says. Luke 128 doesn't say that. Luke 128 says highly favored one. And that is kakaritomene. And so that's what it is. But it comes from, what it means is to grace, highly honor, to greatly favor, spoken of only in the divine favor as to the Virgin Mary, Luke 128, kakaritomene.

And that's the only place that occurs in there. She's highly favored and she was, she was very blessed. But if the logic is full of grace, which is an incorrect translation, means that she's therefore sinless.

That's what I've heard from Catholics. Please come in and correct me if I'm incorrect. That's what I've heard. Well, then why is not in Acts 6a, Stephen,.

Who's full of grace, also sinless then? That's the question. And also is full of grace in Luke 128,.

Is that only found in the Latin Vulgate manuscript? Yeah. I believe it's in the Latin Vulgate. I used to know all this stuff. I studied it a long time ago and I've forgotten a lot of it. It was Jerome who mistranslated it into the Latin Vulgate and put full of grace.

And they built a doctrine on this. I think that's correct. I think I remembered it correctly. Did that answer your question, Crystal? If you guys have questions, you can put them in. In fact, I don't, let me check on the Catholic Church and Reformation Debates Forum.

And so I'm seeing if anybody there is asking any questions. What I'm going to do is type in there and put the word test from C-C-T-R-D-F. And I'm going to see what shows up inside of my stream yard.

If it goes in, if it does, it'll know that the questions that they put in there in the comments come into here. And I'll wait for it just a little bit and see, but I don't think it's going to. I think that if they, no, it won't.

Of course it won't. What am I thinking? Because this is not streaming to that. It would.

Have to be on the, okay. It wouldn't do that. My bad. All right. Yeah. You said to truth before, Mary was full of truth and Jesus was full of truth. Um, Jesus's level of truth and standard. Well, I know, you know, basically full of grace, but grace and truth.

Um, well, or a different standard of, I would have thought Jesus would have been a very different standard.

Of truth and Mary's truth. Well, it doesn't, I, if I said that she was full of truth that I.

Misspoke. Maybe you didn't, but the whole Catholic thing is Mary's full of grace and truth. If she's without sin and Jesus would have been full of grace and truth, but on a very different scale,.

If, if you will. Right. And that would be something to talk to Catholics. You know, I I've studied Catholicism for years and there's, to be honest, there's a whole bunch more to learn. Really there is.

In fact, I don't know how many of you guys have seen my outlines on Calvinism.

You ever seen that? No, I haven't personally. And it's on, uh, I published it on, I'm going to,.

I'm bringing it up on my, my thing here. I published it on, um, Amazon and it has, how many pages is it? 82 pages. I got 82 pages of notes. Okay. 82 in that. And that's 25 years of notes that I put together and, you know, use my outline.

What's that? Sounds like a, like it's quite depth. Oh yeah. It's just an outline. And that's just how I arrange my information. The, um, the outlines of Catholicism is 133 pages. And I've only been working on it.

For a couple of years and it's 133 pages. Hey Matt, how can Catholics get around in Luke 147.

When Mary said, uh, my Lord and my Savior? Well, what they're going to say is in Luke 147 is that, that she saved him, that God saved her from becoming a sinner.

Oh no. And you ask them and they can't prove anything. Well, you know, they can't prove it. Not in scripture. Maybe in tradition. They can.

Well, they can't prove it. No, no, it's not an issue of, of, of that. Um, yeah, I'm trying to, sorry. Uh, the Catholic guys asked me to try and get this thing going inside of his, um, group, um, to try to make it work and try to do a watch party, but I can't get the watch party to work.

So I could put it on his page. I think maybe, um, Facebook is penalizing me for doing watch parties. Well, I did a watch party on Reformed Coffee House. For here? For this show? Maybe you could do it on, on them too, because he's asking and I don't want to impose.

Which, which, which Facebook page is it? It's, um, here, let me put the URL in and, um, there we go. So he, he, he trusts me. He said he would give me the, the admin username and password so I could add it into StreamYard so I could feed in there.

And, and, uh, of course, you know, I would never abuse that, but I said, well, let's see if you can figure another way, you know? Um, but, uh, and I only want to do, I'll only do this if he says it's okay.

And I'm not going to, uh, you know, so he said it was, so that's the, that's, that's, that's it. That's the URL for the Facebook one. Yeah. So I'm hoping that some Catholics will come in and we can have a discussion and, uh, stuff like that.

That's what I'm hoping. But each time it comes up to something live like this, they don't show up and then they say, well, you could debate me. And then what happens is, you know, I, I have so much to do.

Uh, I have 32 notifications waiting for me in the past, uh, 10 minutes in Facebook, 32. And, um, you know, and let's see how many emails have I got. I've only got 843 on info at karm .org, mad at karm .org, 634.

Um, and I got other ones. I'm not going to say which ones they are. I don't want those get inundated either. There's one with a thousand and eight. There's another one with just 11, cause I moved stuff out of that one.

So, yeah, I got, uh, you know, it's, it's hard to keep up with everybody. And so one guy on that forum, what he did was he started saying, he started saying that, uh, you know, it was, another guy said, Oh, Matt refuses to answer my guy.

I don't see all everything, but these guys, so few of them have any tolerance or so any love of the spirit.

Mary’s Sinlessness, the Fullness of Grace, and the Marian Dogmas

Yeah. Got a couple of questions. They might be off topic. Um, my neighbor, uh, wants to argue that Jesus married Mary Magdalene. Um, and he can't seem to get his facts around that. Um, and we have regular discussions on theology and that's usually where the breaks get put on for me because as far as I am concerned, Jesus did not marry.

I don't know of any evidence from the Bible I can't think of any reference to which I can take him, but he likes to take me to places where he thinks that Mary Magdalene was the wife of Jesus.

Well, you know, people say those kinds of things, but you can't demonstrate from Scripher that it's true. There's suitable comments that have alluded to that kind of a thing, but it's just not true. So just ask him, you have to demonstrate it's true, but otherwise it's just his opinion and that's it.

Yeah. That's what I figured. It's tough. It's tough to get him around to anything other than that. So I guess it kills that one. Yeah. You know, remember proof is different than persuasion. Yeah. Yeah.

And, and my brothers have another struggle with the genealogy of Jesus, uh, with, which relates to, uh, Matthew and Luke where he differs. Matthew and Luke three. Yep. Yeah. Um, how can that be explained?

The ex-Christians, they're atheists now. Uh, so it's kind of, they think they know the Bible, um, and, and I can't explain anything out of that. I can't snap them out of their mindset of, we don't need God.

Yeah. Hold on a second. I'm going to hold on a sec. I don't know if you can hear me or not. We're typing about trying to get this on the Catholic board feed. Yeah, that's okay. Take your time. And so I'm trying to, he wants me to do it.

He's a nice guy. Um, but I can't get it to feed to go. Wait a minute. There it is. Is that it? Or is that, yeah, it's on, but it's not live. I don't know. I don't know how I'm still trying to figure everything out.

It's there. I put the links there and stuff like that. If all they gotta do is just come in and take a look, they can go into the, uh, all they gotta do is go click on the YouTube thing and they can, they can be in there typing.

They can click on the link. They.

Link works. I came in via it. Yeah, it's easy. Unless they're cowardly themselves.

So what he may do is he may give me the username and password to log in, uh, under his username. It would have to be his username and password to do it. And then I could add it. I could shut this one down, go in, restart it, add his thing in and be back up and running in like three minutes.

And then we could do this again. But, uh, that way it would get fed on his system, but that would mean me having his username and password. And, you know, I don't really feel comfortable with that, but he could do that.

And then he could, um, he could just change the password when we're done so that I don't have it anymore. But, uh, he said he trusts me to do something like that, you know, which I consider quite a, you know, I appreciate that.

I would trust you. People would trust me. I wouldn't trust anybody else.

I hope people trust me, but you know, my YouTube channel is very small and I talk about Asperger's syndrome and epilepsy and dealing with life that way, which links me to Christianity. What, do you have Asperger's?

Yes, most certainly. Yeah. My grandmother had it too.

Oh, wow. It's not very common among females.

No. And she was, she was extra special. She was, uh, one of the RAAF nurses who went into Japan after the dropping of the second atomic bomb and took after, um, took care of the Japanese. Wow. Wow. And she kept very silent about it too.

Yeah. Yeah. She definitely had it. We know she had it.

She was all, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's something I've had to struggle through my whole life. Um, I've gotten a lot better at it. Um, so does anybody have the ability to start a watch party on the Facebook thing and put in the, uh, Catholic, go to the Catholic thing?

I think you have to go in, uh, and add it to your, uh, Facebook and then you could do it. So we should have worked on this earlier, but, uh, you know, it's just working out bugs. That's.

What happens. Yep. Yep. Well, you have, you have all your own problems too.

Yeah. I get a lot of stuff. I'm actually working on a novel and I use some spare time. Usually from after midnight, I'll edit for a while and, um, kind of go to bed. So I didn't get much sleep last night cause I was editing.

I got to find an editor who likes sci-fi who can go through it once who doesn't know about my story. Cause, because, uh, when you, when you, when you've written it and you go over and over it, you start putting in words cause you know what you mean to.

Say. You're not hearing it, you know? I would say send it off to Hugh Ross cause he'll, he'll put you in a place. That's fine. Well, this is fiction, you know,.

And no Christian is in it, but there's actually a couple of things I've, I've woven into it from a Christian perspective without people knowing it.

So, yeah. So you, but Hugh Ross is also in Asperger's as well and he also has a whole lot of things. Yeah. And, uh, he can't, don't watch Star Wars or Star Trek with him cause he'll tell you how bad it is and how anti-scientific it really is.

Oh, you mean Star Trek? Yeah. Oh, it's yeah. Yeah. Because, and Star Wars as well. Um, you know, but Star Wars is probably the better ones for me and Star Wars was destroyed when Jar Jar Binks was added.

I just can't take it anymore.

You know, I just get overloaded with it, with the, uh, the Star Wars stuff. It's just special effects action so much. It's like, what's happening? And it's just, I get overloaded and I've, I lost interest in it.

I remember when we saw the last one, we went out to a big party, we went out and watched it in the theater. I was, I was bored halfway through it. Like, you know, if it was the end right now, I'd be fine.

And I'd just go home. And then the next day I wasn't even thinking about the movie. You know, I wasn't even thinking about it.

It's so unreal that you can't even do it. So, you know, I was just thinking he is a, what is he? He's not a cosmologist, but he's one of those sorts of things too. Right. But he's very good. Reasons to believe .org.

That's his website.

Oh yeah. Yeah. It's good. Um, I used to know a guy who worked with him, went to college with him. And, um, what was his name? He works with Hugh Ross.

No. Uh, oh man. Charlie Spine does not recommend you Ross for several reasons.

Okay. Charlie, I, I recommend him for a little bit because he at least tries to put something between the old age link and the young earth link. That's my reason.