MSL: May 17, 2024

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network.

It's Matt Slick Live!

Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers.

Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick.

All right, buddy.

Welcome to the show.

Hope y 'all are going to have a good time listening, and we'll see if things go well.

Or not.

We're having a little bit of an issue on the radio, but we're trying.

Anyway, so hey, look, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is

dial 877 -207 -2276.

I want to hear from you.

You can give me a call, and hopefully things will work fine there.

I'm going to just do a switch right now with this and with that and with this, and then

we'll get, and the callers are waiting right now, so I want to hear from you.

If you want to give me a call, I'll be fine.

All right, so there we go.

Let's do this.

There.

I know you can hear me now.

All right.

Whew!

You know, tech sometimes can be a little bit irritating, just a little bit, when all of a sudden something doesn't

work and you don't know why and can't figure it out, and I'm a tech guy, and so I usually can figure things out,

but this one has got me.

This one has really made it difficult for me to understand what's going on, but that does happen.

All right.

So, okay.

Hey, if you want to give me a call on this May 17th, I mean, 2024, if you want to give me a call,

all you have to do is

dial 877 -207 -2276, all right, and if you want, you can email me, and all you've got to do

is direct an email to infoatcarm .org,

infoatcarm .org, C -A -R -M dot O -R -G,

and put in the subject line, just put in there, radio comment or radio question, and then we can

hopefully get to it if you want, and if you're new to this show, you're just kind of cruising the stations, you want to know what

this is about, it's a Christian station, of course, and I am a Christian who answers

difficult questions, does impromptu debates, teaches, I've been doing this for over 20 years on

radio, and what, I've written 6 ,000 articles and several

books, and at any rate, so we talk about the Lord, atheism, evolution,

UFOs, the occult, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian science, unity, Baha 'i, Islam, Roman

Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Trinitarianism, which is good stuff, hypostatic union,

divine simplicity, isms and istics, and stuff like that.

So there you go, now, I want to hear from you, well, thanks for reminding me, so on

the 31st of this month, May, 2024, I'll be in Ogden,

Utah, for a debate, I'll be debating with a Mormon, and

the topic will be, does the Bible teach salvation by faith or works?

Now, I'm just going to say that all false religions teach salvation

is by works, you know, faith and works, but that's the title there.

So it's going to be Friday, May 31st, from 4 to 6 p .m. at Weber State

University, Weber State University, the Wildcat Theater, and I'll be

debating David Robinson.

Now, I'm going to give a phone number out, if you want more information, the number is

801 -645 -7433, and we're going to be

debating, now, what does Mormonism teach?

Now, that's a topic, because it was actually Mormonism that got me started in apologetics so

many years ago.

A friend of mine, Charlie, he read me a quote where Joseph Smith boasted that he did more than Jesus to keep a church

together, and it made me mad.

So I started studying, and I've been studying ever since.

So I've developed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of information on all

kinds of religious systems, and written, like I said, 6 ,000 articles.

All right, now, if you want to know where the debate stuff is, the information, if you want a better grasp

on it, you know, without quickly over the phone, all you got to do is go to CARM .org

forward slash debates, that's plural, debates, and you'll see there, it'll say

upcoming debates, and you can check it out, click on the link, and it'll take you right there, see

upcoming debates on 531, and all the info you need is right there.

You can put some maps and some stuff in there like that.

So easy peasy.

And it's Friday, and so sometimes on Fridays we do Whack -O -Mail, now, you know, I haven't got too much Whack -O -Mail

lately, but Whack -O -Mail, you know, it's, it's, it's got some people got some issues there, but

don't have any real good Whack -O -Mail, but hopefully we'll be able to get some, you know,

maybe in the future, uh -oh, look at what happened there, so now I got to do that, hit

the camera.

So anyway, if you want to give me a call, like I

said, 877 -207 -2276, all right, we're having a little bit of an issue with the, the gimbal,

and there we go, got it.

All right, let's get to Anonymous from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Welcome, you are on the air.

Hey, good evening, brother, and hello out there on the radio live, anyway.

I was at a Bible study last month, and, um, there

was one guy that said that there, there cannot be Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that there

cannot be, um, the Comforter, you know, that, that his, his was that God that

Jesus came down to show us how to live and treat each other, and then he went back up to

heaven.

It was just, it was all, it was upside down and backwards, and I was trying to explain to the guy, I was giving

him scripture, and uh -uh, but, I, just, if you could, I mean, we used to

think about the Holy Spirit, there is a Holy Spirit, but yeah, it was, I mean, he talked over the teacher

and everything else, he talked about the gospel, to just, well, just to calm him, maybe, or whatever.

I'm not sure what you're asking, though, was he saying the Holy Spirit is not the third person of the Trinity?

Yeah, he said it's not three different, and, and the teacher was trying to explain to him.

Wait, wait, wait, you gotta, hold on, hold on, you gotta finish your, finish your sentence.

He's not three different.

What?

What?

That, that, that there's, that they're not three, three and what, not triune God, not triune.

Because there's no way that it could be three separate, yeah.

Three separate.

What?

Three separate the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Okay.

He just kept saying, how could Jesus be all of what, you know?

And we tried to say the ice, you know, ice and steam and water share three different.

Yeah, that's not a good, that's not a good, no, that's not a good analogy.

Oh, okay.

Um, but, uh, so was he teaching the Bibles or he's just a guy in the Bible study?

No, he was, he was, and he took up the whole time, you know, debating about it.

No, no, no, wait, wait, wait, was he teaching or was he just in the study?

He was not teaching.

He was in the study.

Okay, and then when this, okay, and when the discussion started and it just became that discussion for quite a while?

Yeah, it, it was over, you know, for the whole, took up the whole hour of trying, you know, talk to him.

He wasn't having it.

Yeah.

He was comparing him to different spirits in this world.

And he's, he doesn't know what he's doing.

Um, there's a lot of information that I have on calm, on the Holy Spirit

and how the Holy Spirit is a third person of the Trinity.

And, um, what I would recommend is you could easily go to, uh, calm

.org forward slash Trinity.

And when you do that, it will forward you.

Let me do it right now.

Forward slash Trinity.

And it'll take you to an article that I wrote.

When did I write that?

Come on.

Did I hit enter?

I got the right person then.

Yeah.

Okay.

Back in 2016.

And if you scroll down, and this is for anybody might be listening, wants to debate me on the Trinity.

This is what I'm going to go to.

And that's what I'll, this is what I'll ask because I show this table to people and nobody's able to refute it.

I mean, it's just because it's what it says.

And, but at any rate in there, you'll see where the Holy Spirit is called God.

He's eternal.

He's a creator all knowing everywhere.

And that he has a will, has a mind.

He speaks, loves, has fellowship with.

So these are the attributes of personhood.

And since he's called God and he has all knowledge and he's everywhere, then

he's third person of the Trinity.

And so when I show this to people and I say, can you refute any of these verses?

Is this what it says?

And they can't.

They just deny.

They don't refute.

They just say, well, it just doesn't work with the Trinity.

They just say, it doesn't work.

Why not?

This is exactly how you arrived at it.

And they're stuck.

And I had on my t -shirt that said Father's 356 t -shirt.

I said, well, like it says, and you're trying to figure it out in our earthly minds.

This can't be done.

And I'm glad it can't be.

I don't want.

And I have a book I got from church, John McCarthy, The True Work of the Holy Spirit.

And maybe give it to, but thank you for your help.

I didn't know quite what to ask or whatever, how to pose this question.

Yeah, that's okay.

So he was just denying the Trinity and that's okay.

I was like, I felt heart sick.

I absolutely did.

I was frightened and not to be angry with him because he was just blinded.

He was so blinded by all this stuff.

Yes, he is.

He's definitely blinded.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, my friend. God bless you.

Thank you.

All right.

Bye -bye.

Okay.

Okay.

God bless.

All right.

So, hey, look, we have nobody waiting.

If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial.

877 -207 -2276.

We have nobody waiting right now.

So I think what I'll do is get on the email list and

go over to, let's see, some emails.

Let's see.

Let's see what they say.

All right.

First of all, like I say, I love listening to your show.

I can only get the last half hour, but it's still all good.

Preacher, rapture person.

Okay.

I know that you believe that people will go through the tribulation.

Yeah, I do.

Different thoughts on this, but the church has not mentioned past Revelation 3, I believe, and neither is justification by faith.

So just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean it's not there.

It's still true.

But nevertheless, and if your thoughts are correct on what is taken and what is left, that the bad people are taken, then why

don't Jesus just take all the bad people and we don't have to worry about that tribulation?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Why doesn't Jesus do a lot of things?

I don't know.

So I wish he would take bad people out

now, but if he did, there'd probably be famine and plague because unbelievers

do a lot of good works, keeping electricity going and cars running and things like that.

So I don't know.

Anyway, that part doesn't make any sense to me.

I love the information on Mormonism.

Good.

I try to study it the best I can.

Good.

But I try to talk to a Mormon, though.

I think I'm going to be able to get through to him.

And it seems like it is in Rocky, Rocky

three where Rocky thinks he's going to beat this Mr. T and he ends up, you know, getting

that's awesome.

That is awesome.

So Mr. T, I don't know the actor's real name, but apparently he's a real good guy.

He's a Christian.

He goes around helping kids and speaking to kids and does a lot of good stuff.

That's great.

Anyway, that's not the whole purpose of this email.

I just thought I'd throw it out there since I'm sending it to you anyway.

Have you ever heard of an older radio personality?

Well, yeah, like me.

I'm 67.

Is that an older radio personality?

I have a Christian radio personality supposedly from the mid to late 80s named Bob Larson.

Yeah, Bob's OK.

Bob Larson's OK.

I thought he was good at first and all of a sudden he went downhill.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

He's OK.

He's not great.

But yeah, he's OK.

You know, you can learn some stuff from him.

So anyway, I enjoyed that email.

It was fun.

And let's see.

End Times Message.

Oh, that's a wacko mail from William Branham.

Branham's a non -Christian cult group.

Let's see.

Praise be to God who sent this guy with a wonderful message that made the Bible a new book.

Wow, that's awesome.

Because he's got a new message.

So now the Bible's a new book.

Really?

Oh, I get.

All the people for centuries couldn't understand it.

Now Branham comes along with a new message.

Now it's a new book.

Wow.

Oh, man.

All right.

Well, hey, look, there's the break and we'll get back after these messages.

So please stay tuned.

We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live!

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick.

There we go.

All right.

Whoo.

Sorry about that.

I hit a switch accidentally.

All right.

Hope you guys can hear me.

OK.

Right.

So there you go.

All right.

My bad.

It was on me.

All right.

Hey, let's get on back on the air with.

I think that was who he was.

It's good to dial from Houston, Texas.

Welcome.

You're on the air.

Yes.

Hi, Matt Slick.

Hi. OK. Yep.

Yes, I can.

All right.

I've been listening to you for a long time, but I'm here with my brother and

we grew up together in the same house and all that.

But I have a lot of questions about the Bible, about

the authenticity of the Bible.

I just don't know how the best way to explain things to him, as

in how I should be believing in God.

Why what?

Why should God?

I didn't hear it.

Why should he believe in God?

I can answer that one.

He ought to believe what is true.

He ought to believe what is right.

There's a natural thing, the issue of of ought, you know, ought you believe two plus two is.

Four.

Well, yes, you should.

We get into the reasons for that, but you should.

If God exists, you ought to believe in him.

Right.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Well, his question is, how do I know that God exists?

Well, where did everything come from?

You see, if whatever he's holding in his hand, if he's holding a thing, a phone, that proves God exists.

The clothes he's wearing proves God exists.

The seat he's in proves God exists.

No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does.

Because think about it.

Whatever you hold, whatever you have came from something.

Well, where'd that come from?

Well, from something else.

Well, where'd that come from?

And it goes backwards in time.

Where did this all come from?

Well, for the people.

Well, where'd the earth come from?

And where'd the solar system come from?

Where'd the universe come from?

Everything that exists, exists inside a causal chain.

A causal chain of events that bring us to now.

Every event occurs in a context.

So there are contexts in which we exist.

Like I'm sitting in my office, sitting in a chair.

I have a headset on.

So my existence, contextually, is there.

Why am I here?

Well, my mom and dad, they got married.

Why did they?

Because they're parents.

I mean, go back and back.

Well, okay, so how far back do we go?

We go back to the cause.

When we look at something that is the cause, what is the cause of all that exists?

If people say that whatever exists has always existed, that is not possible.

Because physical objects like we have in the universe can't always exist because, well,

there's laws of physics, the second law of thermodynamics, energy's running down.

If the universe were infinitely old, there'd be no usable energy in the universe.

This is just a physics fact.

And it would also mean an infinite amount of time had been crossed to get to now if the universe was infinitely old.

And that doesn't work.

You can't cross an infinite.

So the universe had a beginning.

Well, what began the universe?

It's either something that's self -aware or something not self -aware, something alive or something not

alive.

There's no third option.

You say it's either the case that a living being brought the universe into existence or it's not the case that a

living being brought the universe into existence.

Or you could say it's the case that the universe brought itself into existence or it's not the case that the universe brought itself into

existence.

This is called a true dichotomy.

Whenever you have the thing and the negation of the thing, it's either the case that my cat brought the universe

into existence or it's not the case that my cat brought the universe into existence.

And so, when you have two possibilities, like my cat bringing the

universe into existence, if we only have two possibilities, if one is negated, the other is true.

Can my cat bring the universe into existence?

No, it can't.

So, therefore, we get rid of that, and the other one is true.

The other one is, it's not the case that my cat brought the universe.

It's a true value.

Okay.

So, logic would require that we ask, well, what brought the universe into existence?

It's either personal or not personal.

It's alive or it's not alive.

And if it's not alive, then it had to have the ability.

It's called the necessary and sufficient conditions.

It had to have the ability to do it.

But if it had the ability, it was part of its nature, like a rock.

It's not personal.

It's not alive.

It just is.

It either has what it has or doesn't have what it has.

And if it has what it has, the ability to bring the universe into existence, then it's going to happen automatically.

But if it's infinitely old, it would happen an infinite amount of time ago, which would mean the universe is infinitely old.

But it's not.

I'm skipping some stuff just to get through all this.

And so, therefore, the impersonal cause of the universe is not possible.

Therefore, the other view is true.

There's a personal cause of the universe.

I've used this in many debates over the years, and it's valid.

But, you know, it takes a little bit of practice to understand it, okay?

Yes, sir.

Do you mind that we're just sitting here together?

I think you have some, maybe one or two questions for you, if you don't mind.

Hi. Yeah.

My name is Ola.

So, you know, I think that there was some misunderstanding of what he thought

I was thinking.

It wasn't so much of, does

God exist in that sense?

So, I guess my thing for him

was more like, I guess we can agree that we

don't have any type of physical or whatever type of proof.

It's more faith, and you believe that God exists, and

we're fine with that, that God exists, because we believe it, and we have faith in it,

and, you know, that's right, and that's the thing.

I mean, there's no scientific proof that he exists, which is fine, if there's no scientific proof,

but there's scientific proof?

Yes, you see, the science is a philosophy, okay?

People don't know that, but it's a philosophy.

And it presupposes, the scientific method presupposes what's called the

uniformitarian view, that everything in the universe operates the same way, and so they can make predictions.

It's an assumption.

It's a philosophical assumption.

They also, scientists in the scientific method, presupposes the validity of the

universality of the laws of logic, and the consistency of the laws of logic, and logical laws

work in the physical world.

And so these are assumptions that science is based on.

So it's a philosophical approach to learning about the world.

And people don't ever think like that, but that's the case.

Alright, now proof is for logic and mathematics.

How do you prove, for example, that George Washington lived?

Is there proof?

Well, we have paintings of him.

Well, does that prove he lived?

No.

Prove means absolute assurance.

Well, what if someone said, hey, you know, we have a film of him?

Well, that's just not going to work, is it?

And we've got a break coming up.

So the evidence in history is different than what is used in science.

So we don't want to use science for this.

We want to use a different set of things to find things out about older things.

Hey, we'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned.

We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live!

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick.

Alright, everybody, welcome back to the show.

Let's get back on here with Dayo.

Dayo, welcome.

You're back on the air, are you there?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Yes, let me just...

So I think our big argument now is the fact that you kind

of answered it, but I think we're still having this.

So he just wants me to admit that as a Christian, I don't know that there is a God,

but because of my faith, I believe there is a God.

But that there is no proof that there is a God.

To say there is no proof there is a God is not logical because he or nobody can know all proofs.

There have been many arguments to prove God's existence.

The transcendental, the ontological, the teleological, and

I gave one.

So that's not really...

It's not a good place to start from.

Now the question is, what would you look for if God was real?

That's what should be asked.

If he's real, what would you expect to find?

Because you don't want to see if you can find him under a laboratory microscope.

Is that God right there?

How does that work?

How do you have a scientific thing to prove God exists?

An experiment?

No, it doesn't work like that.

So what would be the kind of things necessary to find out if God exists?

That's what you're going to ask.

So you tell me.

I guess that's what I'm trying to understand.

I guess that's what I'm trying to understand.

If God exists, and he is so completely different that he is bigger than the universe and created

it, and we are these little slivers of dots on this little small dust

called planet Earth, if he's going to manifest himself to us,

let's just say he comes by in a gigantic cloud, we go,

oh, what's that?

It's a cloud.

No, it's God.

How would we know?

Or what if he was a big glowing light that comes through and just

passes you by?

Was that God?

Someone would say, well, I think it's God.

How would you know?

Because there was a light.

How do you know?

So it's difficult.

So what we could say is, generally, we could say, if God was to

communicate to us, he'd have to do it in such a way that we could understand it.

That makes sense, because otherwise, we're not going to do it.

It's not going to work.

All right, so what would be the best way to do that?

Well, maybe a voice out of heaven.

Okay?

You get this big, booming voice.

Well, it did happen in the Gospels where God the Father spoke out of heaven several

times to people and to Christ.

Okay, well, that's interesting.

Well, what if God is this being who knows everything and he's there and he's going to enter into the

world?

Well, I think it'd be safe to say that we could say his entrance into the world would be pretty special.

It wouldn't have to be, but, you know, maybe it would be special.

What kind of things might that look like?

Well, how about prophecy?

What prophecy of him being born?

What city?

What family?

What time?

What would happen to him in detail?

His death?

His resurrection?

All prophesied hundreds of years beforehand.

So many, so, that the odds of him fulfilling them by accident are greater than

one in the number of particles in the entire universe.

I can go into the math on that, and it's easy to do.

So, okay, well, if God knows everything in the prophecies, like born of a virgin, Isaiah 7,

14.

He'll be called God, Isaiah 9, 6.

Born in Bethlehem, Micah 5, 2.

He'll be pierced and crucified.

It'd be Zechariah 12, 10 and Psalm 22.

And all these are written hundreds and hundreds of years before Jesus was born.

And in Daniel 9, 24 through 27, there's a prophecy that

before the coming of the Messiah, when he comes in from the day that the decree to rebuild

the walls of Jerusalem, the day of the issuing of the decree, there's

a certain amount of time that'll pass before the Messiah comes into Jerusalem.

And I can go through it, but it's 173 ,880 days.

That's what the prophecy talks about.

And that's 173 ,880 days is when Jesus came into Jerusalem riding a donkey

as it was prophesied.

And it goes on like this.

And he's born of a virgin.

How do you do that?

And so, wow, people are waiting for that.

His entrance into the world, if God's gonna do this, that makes sense.

And maybe his life is special.

Or whoever it is.

Like Muhammad, for example.

I'm reading through the Quran now.

And I'm doing it very slowly and studying it.

And Muhammad, he just claimed to be a prophet.

Hey, I'm a prophet.

Okay, where's the prophecy?

Where's your miracles?

Let's see something that shows that you're not just saying it.

Let's see something that comes from God, if God exists with you.

And nothing happens.

There's nothing recorded.

Oh, the Quran is the miracle.

No, it's not.

It's got problems in it.

So, Jesus had prophecy about him.

And Jesus claimed to be God.

And I gave you the verses.

Well, that's like, oh my goodness.

That can't be the case.

Well, if God exists, he's gonna communicate with us.

What better way is there than to become one of us?

And know exactly what we feel and think.

Walk and talk.

You could sit there and sit down next to him.

How could God do that?

Well, he's God.

And the second person of the Trinity, that's more doctrine, became flesh, as in

dwelling the body, the person of Christ.

And the evidence that is given by the eyewitnesses, hey, he walked on water.

He commanded a storm to obey, and it did.

He caused people to rise from the dead.

He cast out demonic forces.

He healed leprosy.

He did all kinds of stuff.

Fed 4 ,000 with just a few fish.

Repeatedly, eyewitnesses writing this down.

We saw over there, we saw this, we saw that.

Well, that means his life is pretty spectacular.

And he says, well, I can give you the verses, but he claimed to be God in flesh, the creator.

And okay, and then his death.

His death was the crucifixion.

But after three days, he rose from the dead.

And when the Romans killed him, they killed him.

They knew what to do.

Crucifixion was a horrible way to die.

And they stuck a sword, a spear up in his side.

He's up on the cross underneath.

And blood and water came out.

That's the separation of the blood, because the heart doesn't function anymore.

And he's gone.

His back had been ripped open, nails in his wrists and his feet.

He's beaten about the face.

Three days after that, he's in the grave.

He rose from the dead.

Now, that's the evidence.

What's the best conclusion to draw from the evidence?

The historical evidence.

There's more evidence that Jesus existed than Alexander the Great.

There is.

Or Plato or Socrates.

You have more eyewitness accounts that are recorded within the lifetime of the people who saw it, written by many of those

who were there with him.

So, it makes sense to say, yeah, he's the one we should believe in.

It makes sense to do so, doesn't it?

Yeah, thanks for that.

I really appreciate it.

Yeah, that's what it is, you know.

And people say, well, I can't believe.

I can't force myself to believe.

Well, yeah, you can, to a degree.

You get in a car and you drive in the dark.

There's a car coming at you and it's separated by this little paint line on the road.

And you have faith that he's not going to drive into your lane.

You don't have any proof.

But you put your life on the line with that.

Or the doctors that you trust to cut you open.

You trust that they're going to do a good job, even though people die from doctor's work.

And the medicines that you go to the pharmacy for, I trust that they do a good job.

There's no proof.

See, we have evidence for all kinds of things.

And we're accustomed to certain levels of faith that we apply when we have evidence.

The same principle applies to the truth of who Christ is.

His arrival was prophesied, born of a virgin, performed miracles,

died and rose from the dead, and he claimed to be God.

So I think you have better evidence there, the trust in him,

than the guy driving on the other side of the road.

Okay?

Okay.

I hope that helps.

Yeah.

Thank you.

And thank you for helping answer this question.

I really appreciate it.

All right.

And his questions are good questions.

They're good questions.

And they just take time.

I would recommend that he read the Bible.

Just read it, and read the Gospels, and read about Jesus, and see what you think of him.

Okay?

Okay.

There's a break.

Appreciate it.

All right, buddy.

All right, you too, man.

God bless.

Hey, folks.

We'll be right back after these messages.

If you want to wade through them, then we can do some more.

We'll be right back.

Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everybody.

Welcome back to the show.

Let's get to Herb from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Welcome.

You're on the air, man.

Hey, Matt.

Listen, buddy, I'm going to try to be a little discreet on what I'm trying to ask you about, but I just want your feeling on it.

You may not know anything about it.

I have a friend who's joined a church in Durham, North Carolina, near where I live,

and it's got Korean origins from it, from what I've read on it, and I

cannot think of the name at this point, but it's on a login.

World Mission Society Church of God.

World Mission Society Church of God.

That's exactly right.

Now, here's the thing, buddy, and I don't know what you saw, if you read what I put up there.

Well, I won't say the date, but they've determined that there's a certain date because I don't want to scare the public.

They say there's a certain date that the rapture's going to occur, and she is so convinced of

this that she wants to make these drastic changes,

and as a friend, I don't know what to have to advise her.

You can't talk to her.

I think it's a cult.

I really do.

It's a non -Christian cult.

And they go straight out of the Bible, Matt.

Well, here's the thing.

She said there's a male and a female God.

Well, that's not biblical, but she compares that with other things, like us Christians, and I know it's not

true.

Us Christians are missing the boat, that we're not aware that on this date, we're going to miss the boat.

She and her group is going to be in heaven, and we're not, and God came back in the

30s with the male and the female God, and I think sometime in the 30s, it says, that He

came.

And they sleep in their car when they go.

She takes her child out of school a lot, and that's not

the way to do.

I think a lot of her.

I care about her, but she's so far gone in this thing, and she only got into it in the last few months, but

I don't know how to advise her, or if I can advise her.

Well, she's brainwashed.

There's a phenomenon called snapping, and she's snapped, and it's very hard to get someone out once they've snapped.

It's where you don't believe, you don't believe, and wham, you believe, and then just go with it.

So, I'd be willing to talk to her over the phone.

I'm sure she wouldn't want to do that, but I'd be willing to ask her questions and deal with truth and the

nature of how can you have a mother and a father, God, are they both eternal?

And there are serious problems with this.

It's like Mormonism.

Where did they come from?

Why is there male and female?

Do they have relations in heaven?

You have to ask all these questions.

And what's going on?

Oh, yeah.

And so, you know, and they generally can't answer them, but I have to be very careful when I'm

talking to someone in a group like that because they're so brainwashed that if you say the wrong thing, they just shut the door.

So, you have to ask very...

Yeah, well, she seems to...

I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, go ahead, go ahead.

It's all right.

I said she tends to get very abrupt, very blunt about things and kind of a

little bit overboard.

And you have to be careful what you say to her because she's so brainwashed, like you say, at this

point.

I don't think there's any saving to her, but she has a child that I'm concerned about being brought up in

this.

And I don't, you know, I know I wouldn't be able to get her on to talk to somebody, you know, like yourself, outside

of her group of friends.

But everything you're saying is exactly what I felt, too.

It's a cult.

She's totally misled.

But I don't know what's going to end up happening with her at this point.

Well, often the people in cults, it takes something traumatic to

get them out.

Yeah.

It usually can all go very quickly or very slowly.

And for the very quick, a trauma occurs.

It can be all kinds of different things that just traumatize them, and they can't handle it, and they leave.

But a lot of times, over a period of time, they start seeing inconsistencies.

They start thinking about them.

Like in Mormonism, when Mormons ask, you know, they see inconsistencies in their history and their doctrines,

they ask the bishops that they're basically told don't ask those kind of questions.

Well, why not?

Yeah.

This kind of stuff.

And it begins a process.

Well, why can't we just ask a question?

What's wrong with that?

And they don't want you to do the same thing.

So this is the same kind of thing that happens with cults like this.

And I can deal with them.

I can handle them.

I would be perfectly willing to do a public formal debate with their representative in the whole bed.

You know, I would do that, because it's never going to happen.

Yeah.

So what do you do?

Well, you pray for them.

Now, you've got to understand, when you start praying for her, really praying for her, you're going to be stirring up a

spiritual pot.

And you want to be prayed up that the demonic forces don't turn their attention on you and make your life a little

uncomfortable.

It can happen.

It doesn't mean it's going to, but it's just a possibility.

So that's something to think about.

Their thing is, if there's a way for you to guard her, now, even as far as if

she wants to say, let's just say she's so convinced her after is going to happen next week, she sells you her car for $1 ,000.

Let's just say.

No.

You say, okay, $1 ,000, you buy the car, and then you hold it for after it fails.

You can, you know, she can get back her life, get back going.

You're guarding her stuff for her because she can't handle it.

I don't know if that's possible, but these kinds of things that are, you watch out for those people who are brainwashed.

Yeah.

It's very difficult.

Well, there is a specific date, and I told your caller, your screener, but I don't

want to say it to scare other people, but I told her, well, what if you wait?

I mean, she's convinced if she doesn't do certain things, I don't understand it all, but whatever she's supposed to have to do

to get ready for that date, which is not too far off, she's got to do it.

And I said, well, why don't you wait till that date?

And, you know, you might be wrong.

And if these things don't occur on the date that you're saying that you've been with your vision, whatever you've been told,

and it doesn't happen, would that not tell you that this just may be the wrong religion to be in, the wrong, you

know, group to be a part of?

But I don't think she's going to listen to me, but that was my thinking.

I said, just be patient.

And, you know, if you think this is truly the right way, and you believe as a Christian, which they

call themselves Christians, but I know that they can't be.

But I said, if you believe the way you believe, then if you just, you know, have faith and see what

happens on that date, and then if you find that you're wrong, then realize it's not a sin to be wrong.

Just admit even the wrong belief and, you know, get with the right belief.

But I don't think she's going to fall for that.

It's just no talking to her.

But I wanted to confirm with you, I felt in my own mind, I don't have a lot of background on stuff like this, but I felt sure it's

got to be a cult.

And I never heard of the beliefs about the male and the female God and all that.

There's just no way.

Yes, they teach, I'm looking at my notes, okay, God is modalistic.

So there's the Father, Son, Holy Spirit being three distinct simultaneous persons.

He's modes.

There's a Heavenly Mother.

Salvation is by baptism.

And you have to do it in the name of Jehovah the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy

Spirit, who is an unsung home.

It's hard to pronounce.

And you have to talk.

You have to give them money.

And that's where the crookedness is, I think.

Somebody's getting rich off of these people who have low self -esteem and saying if you don't

believe in something, you'll fall for anything.

And I think that's what she's gotten into.

But I just can't get her to see the forest for the trees.

I mean, I just, I don't know.

I really appreciate that.

You're confirming what I felt pretty sure I was correct, but I'm not that smart of a person.

I mean, I'm just an average guy.

But I wanted to confirm it from you and just see what you thought and any suggestions.

Well, time will tell.

Yep, sorry, that's what it is.

She's in a cult, and there's lots of cults all over the place.

Lots of cults.

Yeah.

That is so sad.

You know, the Lord really needs to come on back soon.

I mean, it's not for us to say, but I sure wish he'd heard and come back.

We sure need him.

That's right.

Well, Matt, God bless you as always, you and your family.

Thank you so much.

And you all have a wonderful weekend.

You too, man. God bless. Appreciate it.

All right.

Yes, sir.

Bye -bye.

All right.

All right, all right.

Let's get to Fabio from Ontario, Canada.

Welcome.

Welcome.

You're on the air.

Hey, Matt, I appreciate you taking my call.

Sure.

Just started listening to your stuff recently.

Absolutely love it.

Your website, fantastic.

Love the debates.

I think I have the debate with you and Arnron next to watch, which I'm really excited about

that one.

I already feel bad for him, but.

Yeah.

He won't ever debate me again.

What's that?

He'll never debate you again?

No, he won't ever debate me again, because at the end of our debate, listen for it, I started saying he had faith.

Oh, man, he did not like that.

He did not like that.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

He's really easy to get angry.

I watch, I don't know if you know who Bob Duco is.

He's up in Michigan.

No, it doesn't ring a bell.

Bob Duco, he has a radio show as well, and he debated him.

As well, it was funny because the topic got on dinosaurs, and Arnron started saying, well, I'm not

a professional on dinosaurs.

After, well, first he said, let's talk about dinosaurs.

Then after, Bob Duco started just going with why dinosaurs live with men and things like that.

Then all of a sudden, he wasn't a professional in that field, which I thought was funny.

But anyways, I wanted to ask a question.

I was a Catholic for many years.

I've been saved for about 12 years now.

So I was trying to get a conversation going with this gentleman.

He has a YouTube account and a Catholic guy, and he's

talking about all these Catholic things and I have a good understanding about Catholic doctrine and all that.

I told him, can we have a dialogue about baptism or

belief for salvation or for being born again?

He wants to talk about all these other things.

He wants to talk about the early church fathers and this and that.

I told him, with all due respect, I don't really care.

It's what the Scripture is telling me.

So my early church fathers is Paul, Peter, John.

Now, do you have anything?

That's what I say.

I do the same thing.

Right?

I mean….

I do.

If these guys in the first, second, third century are saying something different than the Scripture,

then something's wrong.

I know they don't uphold the Scripture as we do.

I get that.

Now, do you have anything that I can look at where

it talks about….

So his thing is the early church fathers would agree with his analysis of baptism, which

is baptizing babies and needing to get baptized to go to heaven as opposed to what we

believe in believers' baptism.

What you can do is go to QARM and look up early church fathers.

It's a main category.

And then go to quotes by topic.

And you'll see where they differ on the Apocrypha, baptism, the canon of Scripture,

the Eucharist, faith alone, purgatory, salvation by faith, Scripture as a final authority, and a bunch of other stuff.

So when I talk to Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, and they tell me that

the church fathers agreed with them, I say, which church fathers?

Which ones?

Because they contradict each other.

No, they don't.

Well, yes, they do.

If I go to baptism and salvation, I click on my links, and I've done the research.

Irenaeus said baptism was necessary.

I did Origen and Tertullian and Ambrose.

But Clement of Rome and Polycarp and Marianas Victorinus said no.

And I read them the quotes.

And furthermore, and you can do this on all kinds of topics, and you can say, look, how do you know if these church fathers are right?

That's a question.

And they can't answer it.

They have to go to the Scriptures.

Oh, man, we're out of time.

Call back tomorrow.

Well, tomorrow.

Call back Monday.

We can talk about the church fathers.

I deal with the Catholics a lot.

Okay, perfect.

I can show you a link.

That's awesome.

Yes, I appreciate it so much.

God bless you, brother.

Okay, man, God bless.

We'll talk to you later.